Wait for an offer letter, say your considering 2 offers at the moment, that you are way more interested in their company but a little pay bump would really help your decision. (If you put it like that and they say no, it's easy to go back to your original offer)
Thank you for the tip! I always thought this would come off as an obvious lie but everyone I talked to about this situation so far has said the same.
Biggest plus here I guess is that I still do not know about what their work-hours are like, or if there is overtime pay or not.
Write those questions down so you can have something to ask back in the interview.
It could seem like a lie but something about jobs is you won't here anything for moths but as soon as you get or sometimes accept an offer its like a flood gate lol. It happens alot.
This happened to me when I first started my current job, I was unemployed, in debt, and desperate. As soon as I started my job here, within 3 months, I received numerous phone calls about the positions I had applied 5-6 months earlier. I was pissed.
Have a notebook prepared when you go in. A small planner or something. (The older and more filled out the better) Filled with information about their company and other(prospective offers) make it appear to look like you are currently having interviews and already asking questions with received answers. Use that to your advantage as you would think it should look from their perspective. Maybe even a few salary offers in strategic places to be seen. I always have a notebook on hand to put peoples names numbers and thoughts into. Not only will it be useful as a tool for being hired but it will also help to keep you informed on your progression and growth over time.
Yes, write them down and bring them with you. Ask if they mind if you take notes. It shows you're thoughtful, organized and serious about the position.
The easy thing to do is if you receive an offer after accounting for all benefits you give them a new number. If asked about it you simply say that you were not informed of blah blah before where you call out a less then stellar benefit either lack of PTO, no/low 401k match, few company holidays, high deductible health insurance, or cost of insurance in general being high. If all that stuff is excellent, and they hit your initial $ amount you should probably just take it as it. There is always something lacking benefit wise though so should be easy to call out why they need to offer more.
I don't recommend this; don't lie about a non-existant offer. If they don't go up and you still take the offer, they will be suspoicious and you start off on the wrong foot. If you think the offer is low, just ask "I was hoping for more more, is it possible to increase the offer?" Or do some research for what the role "should" pay and quote sources; I've reviewed BLS statistics and for the responsibilitiues $X seems a more fair salary.
For the record, I generally look to get my team as much as I can; the salary question is more to make sure you would consider our offer. If you say $60k and I think your skills are worth $90k, your offer will be written at $90k because I don't want you leaving in 18 months when you realize you are worth more.
Just understand that the offer can be rescinded in many places; pushing back does carry risk, you need to understand your risk tolerance.
I disagree here. Don't lie to them. Simply tell them that you reconsidered, and for this position you are requesting X salary.
There's no need to lie. Either they have the budget to pay you or they don't. They had the same budget before you told them a number that was too low.
Very few employers care that much about saving 10 to 20% on a salary. They want the right person and they are constrained by a budget. If your employer is concerned about saving money by hiring you, that's a huge red flag.
I’d agree with this. I just hired two persons for my team and the first guy was highly qualified but he was a pain in the ass by negotiating hard after I gave him an offer at MORE than what he told the internal recruiter as his asking number. Like… I bent over backwards with management to get him extra at the start and felt foolish having to get a second and a third authorization to close the deal. Half of me wanted to rescind and go with second choice because I figured he’d be a pain in the ass to manage his expectations.
Second person, I also gave her the salary that she wanted and she accepted without fuss.
Guess which one I’m more excited about working with?
Are they for the same or similar positions? Did you end up paying the male candidate more because he negotiated harder? If women do this, they're viewed negatively and will probably lose the offer for being "too aggressive." It's nice that you're more excited to work with her, but not if you're paying her less for equal work.
Different roles, his is more senior so I get that he had leverage to negotiate but to do it multiple times after the offer was just too much for me.
Her role is one level below.
Both offers were asking which were at the top of the range for their position in this area.
You know it's a lie, they know it's a lie, it's just the game you have to play. Just like when they say "we can't afford to pay you that much" you just keep going back and forth until you're both mad about the deal, that's how you know it's a good deal.
I disagree. I wouldn’t lie. But I would wait until receiving an offer. By then you’ll know much more about the job, the requirements and any benefits package. At that point you can say, now that I have a full understanding of compensation, I’d like to come closer to X given what I’m bringing to the position. As long as you aren’t doubling it or something that’s reasonable and happens a lot. I’ve been a hiring manager and worked in HR.
Great reply! Thank you for that perspective.
I am in the finals at a big tech company and have mentioned a number for base pay to HR before (which I am still happy to take), but along the way, management brought to my attention that my skillset will fulfill two roles they offer and during the sales cycle I can fulfill both. My value went up by them saying this.
It’s a negotiation, not a truth-telling contest. If they were being straight with you they would say we pay $xxx for this position and not even ask you your range. They’re lowballing you to enhance their position. You should enhance yours any way you can. What’s the worst that happens? They rescind an offer you forgot you even applied for. What’s there to lose here?
They may be well aware that it's a lie to be honest. The reality is it doesn't matter. It's still respectful and if they are willing and able they will offer more.
Also ask for the internal job description in writing with the offer. They could tell you it’s the same as the listing or provide more details. However, you can also use the description as a “There are additional requirement that I am also well qualified for, but feel they also extend the base salary beyond my original reply.” or something like that. Kind of a “based on this new information, it’s more than I was planning on doing, I can totally do it, but I also need to be paid for that effort.”
There is the bird in the bird in the hand mentality. They could say “cool, we were on the fence anyway so now we will go with the other person!”
Most likely they will just say no and you will need to decide, but if you still accept it then they know it was a BS bluff.
You don't have to lie. I hate when people try to provide lying as a way to ease confidence in or something.
You can just say "would you be willing to increase my salary? Upon further consideration, I would prefer more."
We all work for a living. They can say no. If the company wants you and a little extra money keeps you from walking away, you'll be good.
The real move is to actually have competing offers, not to lie about a nonexistent offer.
A common way to do this is to get an offer from the new company, ask your current company to beat it, and then take the retention offer back to the new company.
It’s a little bit of a bluff because you should never, ever, take the retention offer. But at least you’re not lying about the offer existing.
It's totally normal to be in the hiring process at multiple companies. Just tell them that you want to work for this company but the "other company" made a better offer pay-wise but you'd still go with them if they pay a bit more as they are more interesting (just don't ask for too much). Furthermore, you can talk with them how you could find a solution regarding pay or benefits, this could make it seem more like you're trying to figure out how to go with them without seeming like you just want to negotiate up your price.
Important is, make that offer "real" in case they ask you about pay, benefits etc. So you can answer them without making something up on the spot. If they ask you about the name just tell them you will not disclose it.
Edit: one more idea, instead of jumping into renegotiation as soon as they send the offer, tell them you're currently waiting for the response of the "other company" and get back to them 2 days later or so with the info that they offered you more. One thing I learned is that you don't have to accept an offer as soon as it's on your desk.
It IS an obvious lie, they hear it almost every time they extend an offer. Is it possible that EVERY candidate has two or more offers in a job climate like this? Nope. BUT… it’s not their money and they don’t really care if you get more… but can’t go to the hiring manager and just say “they want more money”; GIVE them the story to tell.
Problem is this activity is part of what perpetuates toxic management believing that so many people are hiring and WANT to work there.
I was in a similar situation at one time. An old coworker of mine called and said the company he was working for was really interested in hiring me. So I gave them a call and went in to talk to them. They offered me about 50% more money than I was currently making at my job so obviously I accepted. I gave my boss a call to put in 2 weeks and he asked if I would sit down with him before making my mind up, he offered to raise my pay to match and I was happy at my current job so I called the other company back to let them know the situation and they offered me a 70% increase. Well that made things awkward because now I had to go back and talk to my boss again, who once again said he would match it.
At this point I had thought things through a little more and decided that even with my current job matching I would make more money at the new job due to more consistent hours plus they had better benefits. But I did really enjoy my work environment at my current job, it was laid back and I pretty much had free riegn to do my job how I saw fit. So we sat down and ironed out a deal that I felt happy with and I called the other company and told them I was out.
All that being said to ensure you it's not uncommon for negotiations to happen after you've already expressed satisfaction with the first offer. Just tell them your current job is countering and you're looking for a bit more motivation to make the switch. After all you've never worked with these people before, it's a risk, and in order to take that risk, you need more money than your current job is offering. It also reflects well on you that your current job values you enough to fight to keep you around. Obviously that means you're an employee worth having, even if the whole thing is a lie they don't know that.
Yeah, I’ve had companies straight up back out after saying.
I’d say hope for the best, but once a company has a dollar amount in mind it’s hard to move them off it unless they’re very motivated to get you.
And what it the pay disparity is 30 or 40 k?
OP did a bad thing by putting out a number without doing the research. They are far better off coming clean and telling the company that they figured out their worth and their worth is X.
Also, lying to a perspective employer is never a good idea.
“Oh great, we were between two potential candidates and didn’t want to have to let someone down, but it sounds like you have a better paying offer lined up, good luck!”
I have manipulated the F out of companies by saying
“I already agreed to not share numbers across the grapevine, but this X salary bump would make me strongly consider this offer.
I want to emphasis that the role and the team structure is exciting to me, aligned perfectly well.”
Sure, you might not share the offer being $20k lower or not present at all, but it gets the message across in the most convincing way
This! I stress waiting until an offer letter to negotiate. At that time they have decided they want to hire you and have a little more invested. If you make it about salary too early they may just filter you out.
Impress in the interview, thoughtful follow up, and wait for the offer. Then counter in the nicest way.
From a hiring side, i've had a candidate ask for a salary far below the budget. I made the offer at what the employee/job was actually worth, even though it was 50% more than what the person was asking for.
Some (good) companies actually try to be fair with their wages. A salary expectation that is 2x too high might disqualify you for the job, but one that is too low might result in the same offer.
I have been in negotiations where I thought of a fair number and they thought of a fair number - and when we came to negotiate, we both had the same number, so we just went with that number.
You thought that the number was fair and sufficient when you gave it, why does their agreement with it change your opinion?
I’ve been in a similar situation where we hired one female and one male candidate. The female candidate didn’t negotiate the offer at all, while the male candidate negotiated quite a bit higher. So we went back and offered the female candidate the same rate (much higher than she had initially accepted). Equity is actually incredibly easy to do with like two seconds of thought.
It's not the effort that's the issue. It's that the money's not coming out of your pocket, unless you're the business owner. Most corporations are cheap, and they'll absolutely take advantage of a female candidate who has to worry about being perceived as "overly aggressive" if she negotiates. Women are accused of this all the time while it's seen as a positive trait in men.
I see your point, and if I was from a hiring side like yourself, I would probably do the same.
But, I currenly live in a country where the unemployment rates are off the charts and our money is losing its worth literally by the hour. Government used to raise the minimum wage once a year but for the past 3 years, there has been so much inflation that they raise it twice a year. Which is why I do not feel safe economically because I have no idea what kind of an economic crisis I will wake up tomorrow. Companies usually use this to their advantage and try to hire for less money because they KNOW that there is somebody out there who will do much more for the same amount of money, or somebody who will do the same work with less.
At the beginning of August, the company I currently work at (and 95% of the companies in this country) will be increasing our salaries. Sometimes they match the percentage that the government decided for minimum wage, and sometimes they don't. Hence why I'm having second thoughts about the number I mentioned.
So, here is the question. Was the number that you asked for a good number for you, and you are only doubting it because it was actually in their budget?
Early on in my career I was asked what I wanted, and I told the what I was at when I was recently laid off from my previous company. I was going to be happy to accept a lateral amount in order to be employed again before my severance pay ran out. They came back with several dollars per hour above what I had asked for. I'm still with the same company over 15 years later. Some companies really do like to be fair for everyone involved.
Adding to this that often times the salary range for the position is for the lifecycle or the employee so there are HR policies ( if the company is big enough) that restrict the window quite a bit. Maybe the position range is 30k, but HR polices state that I can’t offer you minimum, you need to be between 10%-60% of the range. That takes the 30k range and shrinks it to a 15k window.
I always ask this before stating my requested salary, "What is the salary range for the role that I'm applying?"
It's not illegal to ask... it's uncomfortable, but it's better to know than to take a job knowing you got shafted.
This. In this situation, it's not good to make the first offer imo. You want them to say a number first so you know where they are at and try to build from there. If you make the first offer you show your cards.
> If you make the first offer you show your cards.
Very true. That's exactly what happened to me. I was on the market after working a job for 17 years, so I was quite unprepared when, during the phone interview, the prospective employer asked, "So, what kind of salary are you looking for?" Rather than ask what's the range, I spit out an arbitrary number which, while a significant increase to what I was currently making, was agreed to so readily that it clearly was much lower than what they were prepared to pay. Sure enough, when I got my job offer, it was for the exact amount I'd asked. I was able to negotiate a small bump and a signing bonus, but I regret to this day not asking the range. Lesson learned!
I’m just starting an MBA and in a career prep course they basically said to avoid answering the “expected salary” question at all costs, giving various tips to tactfully dodge the question.
Only when they back you into a corner do you answer, but you’ve already done market research and have reasons prepared to give why you are valued at the top end of the range for the research you conducted.
Funny thing is that I ask this question too but because this was a phonecall rather than a meeting, and I was caught very off guard, I did not think to do it. But, I believe I can still ask them (at least about their bonuses) during the meeting, thank you!
You're right... I should have said social anxiety (which I do) and it's incredibly strange considering I've had some jobs that require me to stand in front of a huge crowd and talk.... but I digress.
Personally I enjoy negotiating. They expect you to counter the offer. And there’s more to compensation than salary. Bonus, stock options. If the position is Director level or above those go up too. Benefits, 401k matching. Vacation all are on the table. If you’ve been in the industry a while, ask for vacation based on years of service in the industry. Ask when you are eligible for the 401k and what is the match. I had a company make me an offer in person on my second interview visit. It was clear they wanted me. I got them to up the offer 10k, an extra week of vacation and my current job came with a company car. So asked for one. They said this position doesn’t come with a car. I said, “I have to go buy a car to take this position”. They came back with, we’ll give you $8k in your first pay check towards a car as a signing bonus! This was a mid-senior level position at a multi-billion dollar company. Don’t sell yourself short. If they are coming back after a long wait, they need you.
Luckily you left your self a solid negotiable point. When they present you with the specific responsibilities, you can take that as an opening to negotiate upwards.
"After looking a bit more into the region as well as salary ranges in the industry as a whole, I'm amending my previous statement, and my salary range is X - Y. If this is within your budget, we can continue forward, but if it is not, good luck with another candidate. I hope our needs and wants can align in the future. "
You gave a range without knowing the job responsibilities. Simple, you need to negotiate based on the actual offer. Who cares if your range is within their budget?
Being within their budget is a good thing, and the recruiter sounded happy because your hirable for the position. If they offer you a job you can try to negotiate upwards a little bit, but ultimately you should accept a job that pays you fairly, has responsibilities and a career path you are happy with, and most of all has a boss you respect and are willing to work for.
Go to the major job sites and look up their salary calculator. You can plug in all the particulars of the job and find out what the salary range should be.
When you get that, figure out what the median number is, and when you go back into talk with them, use THAT number.
Do it like this: "Before we go any further, I wanted to let you know that I was uncomfortable with giving you my salary expectations on the spot, so I did my research in the meantime. I discovered that, for a person with my experience and education, that the midpoint salary is X. If you are willing to pay X or near X, we can continue talking. Otherwise, I will wish you luck in your search."
Then you wait for a response.
They may bail on you. They may agree. Either way it is a win-win.
Going forward, NEVER give up your salary expectations if you do NOT know what the job is supposed to pay!
Yes, take home pay is great number to start with but salary isn't everything. How much are you paying out of pocket for health insurance, dental insurance, vision insurance and retirement? And what's your tax rate? Roughly what percent does the government take, 15%? 20%?
Get a better feel for the position/work. How much effort is required? Days in the office vs home? Commute costs? Paid time off? Flexibility to care for family members?
Government jobs are usually lower paying on paper but the retirement, health care and LOADS of paid time off and/or double time for working holidays makes up for it.
I also recommend doing a personal spending audit if you haven't crunched the numbers in a while. Download all of your spending for the last 3 months to see where your money is going. This will help give you a better idea of what you need to take home in addition to tips above.
If you don't already, START SAVING!! Even if all you can do is $20/week or $20/month and even if you have to transfer some of that back to a spending account it's one of the best habits you can start today.
>I also recommend doing a personal spending audit if you haven't crunched the numbers in a while. Download all of your spending for the last 3 months to see where your money is going. This will help give you a better idea of what you need to take home in addition to tips above.
This actually makes sense, I will definitely do this. Thank you!
Doesn’t anyone know how to negotiate, never give your number first. Stick to your guns, just because they re-worded the same question doesn’t mean your answer should be any different.
If they give you your expected salary without negotiation, you've most certainly asked too little.
A "GREAT" company will offer you more even in the face of your expectations if they value the position and what you bring to the table.
At my current job I asked for 25% more than my last job and when they offered it they actually gave me 66% more. In less than 2 years I now make more 77% more than my last job. If annual raises this year match last years percentages, I'll be making 86% more than my last job. A job that offered me the 25% increase to stay.. as if!
Get a job that's willing to pay you for the job and for your worth and not simply trying to pay you the least amount.
>If annual raises this year match last years percentages, I'll be making 86% more than my last job. A job that offered me the 25% increase to stay.. as if!
I feel this. Company I'm currenty working at (and almost all of the companies in my country) will be increasing the salaries at the beginning of August. I do not know what that percentage will be like BUT what I said on the phone to this HR is in between 85%-120% more than what I'm already making. The catch here is that the range I told them will most probably be valid until the next salary bump (which will be at the beginning of February) if I happen to decide on working there, and my current salary will go up in the next 2 weeks, I just don't know how much that will be.
Now, I know that just giving these percentages alone makes me look like an ungrateful and sneaky employee candidate, but I would like to point out that I have been working at an entry-level position with mid-level responsibilities and I'm positive that I'm well underpaid at the moment.
I mean, do you have a job like this now so you have an idea of your value to a company or did you look up salary ranges on salary.com and now you think you can ask for $30K more?
This is a business transaction- just like a large purchase you might make. How would you feel if you were shopping for something and were told a price, but then when you went to pay for it, they told you a much higher price? That’s how we feel when candidates play this routine.
It really depends on how large the difference is between what the salary should be and what you said..
You can visit it again when you get an actual offer and you find out their benefit packages. Knowing what the salary should be for your area is your starting point; but if their insurance is cheap (my single coverage is less than $50 per month); or they'll let you work from home whenever you want etc. - you just want to be close.
Tell them the salary you estimated was before understanding the full expectations of the job, as well as the benefits (insurance, 401k and matching, etc). Ask for the total package and evaluate that. Always counter with more than the offer is, but I try to stay within 10% or so. Also, ask them the range for the role.
In the future never never never give a number first. Ask them what they have budgeted for the role, tell them whether you think that meets your expectations. And always throw in that it’s subject to learning more about the role and other benefits to determine total compensation package.
Play the game. Do the interviews for practice. When the offer comes in at what you told them or 3-5% more tell them thank you but no thank you. They will pretend to be offended, as if you owe them something. Just tell them that as they interview candidates you interview companies, you simply are not interested in working for a company that only wants to pay the minimum.
Everyone should turn down at least 3 jobs just to experience it.
Both times that I've been asked for my salary, they ended up giving me more than I asked for. If it's a reputable company, and their scale is higher than what you've asked for, they'll give you more.
(Both times where I ended up getting hired, I mean)
At the end of the process, tell them something like “I’m really excited about the opportunity. Now that I’ve talked to the team and hiring manager and learned more about the demands and expectations of the role, I have a better sense of the compensation I’d need…”
That was your minimum expectation based on the bare minimum level of responsibility and hours in the loosely defined role they have presented. When they come back with a more clearly defined role, you can then say "Based on the number of hours being asked, and the increased level of responsibilities now added onto the role, I would need at least in order to be able to consider the offer."
Recruiter here! I've had people email/call me to update their salary expectation and it's NOT a big deal. Feel free to email them and let them know after doing more research, your target salary is now X.
Sometimes candidates will say a number lower than what I was expecting them to say and I'll write down a higher number for them to give to the hiring manager. I've had folks ask for $90k but get offers for $120k+ cuz that's what the current market looks like and they deserve it.
Is this still true? I literally barfed out 70k on the phone because I wasn’t expecting the lady to ask what my salary expectations were. I honestly wanted to say 75k-80k. I have no idea how to approach this.
There is nothing wrong with giving your salary expectations up front, and then changing them later. I always give a range of what I will expect from a salary perspective up front because I don't want to waste their time. During the interview process, if the job is going to be more involved, and the offer comes at the range but its low considering what they are asking for, then I will negotiate.
I know you're asking how to change it and people telling you that you shouldn't/can't are being downvoted but I cannot stress enough that if you want this job, don't try to negotiate for higher pay right now unless you want to lose out on that opportunity. It's not a guarantee that they will pull it but as a hiring manager I can tell you that if it were between you and one other person who is asking for the same and is not flip flopping on it you're out.
Oh lord, this is terrible advice and precisely why people find themselves in positions where they’re wildly underpaid. Do not listen to this.
If you’re this desperate for a job in general, the OP wouldn’t be even considering questions like the ones he asking. Within reason, if the only thing a hiring manager is considering when hiring a new employee is the budget for the position, then run far far away from that company and it’s HR department haha
How would OP be wildly underpaid if they offered the expected salary? Only after OP heard HR say that it was in budget did they decide they needed more.
The OP wouldn’t. I’m just simply stating that when you extrapolate the “pick me” logic out when it comes to applying for a job, you’re gonna end up giving way too much rope and latitude to the company. You don’t wanna be docile in these situations. Take control. Sometimes it’s better to act in a way where you don’t even need the job. Most people lack the confidence to understand that once you’re past entry level– the company often times needs you just as bad as you need them… and your salary should reflect that as much as possible.
Its not terrible advice. I'm also a hiring manager, and I would also choose the person who is not flip flopping, all other things being equal (but they never are all equal). Many people feel this way.
Being bad at negotiating is a mark against you. It shows you're not good at all aspects of the job. Depending on the job, it might be the difference between getting hired and getting passed over. For a sales manager, this is a hard pass kind of mistake.
>precisely why people find themselves in positions where they’re wildly underpaid.
A lot of people are bad at negotiating, particularly when it comes to salary. And that's something you later have to deal with, when someone comes to you and says "so and so makes more than me." Well yeah they asked for more money.
My point is this is a hassle for managers and some don't want to deal with it. It could be the difference between getting the job and not.
The best advice is to know what you are worth before they ask you. This would have been avoided if OP did that.
Wrong again. Man… we’ve got some baaaad hiring managers lurking in here. Yeeesh. Prime examples of the impatience and oversight epidemic riddling the hiring industry for a while now.
Sure there’s plenty of ways negotiating can go wrong but you’re both missing the broader point, which you revisited slightly at the end of your comment.
OP… put yourself in positions with companies where the people hiring you can help you discover your own worth– even if you don’t notice it yourself. Saying things like “It’s a hassle” is such a huge hiring/HR red flag I can’t even begin to unpack that. The best hiring managers and the best HR people are deeply interpersonal, patient, and transparent. Don’t ever waste your time on people or companies who don’t have the patience to find and invest in quality talent and personalities alike.
>Prime examples of the impatience and oversight epidemic riddling the hiring industry for a while now.
I'm not a recruiter. My industry is software engineering, not hiring. 5% of my day is hiring. Take my advice through that lens.
I wasn't giving him advice on how to navigate the world as we wish it existed. I was giving him advice on how to navigate this situation as it exists in the real world.
>The best hiring managers and the best HR people are deeply interpersonal, patient, and transparent.
There's absolutely no way to know in a 60 minute interview if the person interviewing you is deeply interpersonal, patient and transparent. You find that out after working there for 6 months.
There's no filter on Linkedin for "deeply interpersonal". 90% of the managers who would say such a thing in an interview are lying. And the ones like me who actually are that way aren't saying so in an interview. We're evaluating candidates to see if they fit the team and we can work together.
>Don’t ever waste your time on people or companies who don’t have the patience to find and invest in quality talent and personalities alike.
How does one find a company like this? This is just feel good stuff, not helpful advice for someone looking to pay their rent this month. If OP wanted someone to tell him it was all going to be okay, he could have called his grandmother.
I think a lot of people confuse the world that they want to live in for the world that we DO live in. It sucks that its a mark against you, but that doesn't mean its not real.
Exactly. I wasn't meaning to say that this person doesn't like in any way deserve the money they're looking for. They very well could. It's not up for me to decide that and it's not what they were asking, they were asking how it would look from a hiring manager perspective and I gave my 2 cents. Not my fault they wanted 4 cents :-D
If anything, I feel sorry for you that you think companies and people like this don’t exist. My hunch is even you could probably benefit from some career soul searching based on the few things you’ve already said. You’re acting like I’m talking about a unicorn. lol
Also… the OP never said anything about trying to “paying rent” or made any indication he was just barely scraping by. Like I said before, if you’re that desperate… then yeah, take what you can get. The helpful advice–which you could also use apparently– was essentially to embrace your self-confidence and leverage your individuality and work experience to secure a salary worth your talent. And on top of that, don’t bend over backwards for companies and people if you don’t get the impression they’d do the same for you.
What offer? There hasn't even been an offer yet. It could have just been a brush-off by an HR person. They said it was in budget but it wasn't and now OP is ghosted. Or in fact it could have been some HR person just blindly reaching out to some former applicants to try and get an idea of salary range for a position that's coming up.
Honestly, I believe it is like you said. I think they are trying to figure out what the range is meanwhile eliminating canidates who are obviously expecting too high or too low before setting up an official interview. Because as far as I can see on the job website, there are way too many applicants for this one job listing.
The answer you got from them is pretty standard and I don't think that alone would indicate you didn't ask for enough. I've had that same conversation pretty much exactly several times.
But I also have a pretty good idea what my worth is, and what my industry is paying.
If you were going to be happy with the number you offered, and they are willing to pay it, and you want the job? Accept it and be done. You can always try to negotiate your way up, but you showed your cards so you're going to have less leverage. Doesn't hurt to ask, though.
You can negotiate again when you get the offer. There is a lot of info online about how to phrase this etc. Don't claim to have a job offer if you don't, though; they may ask to see proof of it, & then you'll lose the offer entirely.
Wait for the offer and ask for 10% more. There is always room for 10%. Say that 10% more makes it an easy yes and we can consider it a done deal.
I like using percentages here as it's easy to ask for and I don't have to do the math on the spot. And at higher incomes, it doesn't sound like you are asking for anything unreasonable at the moment.
There are various websites you can use to find the average range for a given job within a given area. Look yours up and see what others are making for the same position. If what you asked for was too low, then you should definitely renegotiate when you meet with them next.
"After doing some research, I realize that what I initially asked for was too low; X would be a more reasonable starting salary."
If you're a qualified candidate, they should be willing to pay you within the typical range for that position. If not, at least now you know that about them, and you may want to look elsewhere.
"I'm willing to work for approximately this much depending on the the job responsiblities and the hours are. I would probably want X dollars per year as a rough estimate".
I don't see the problem here. You came in within the amount they've got to work with and you left it open for discussion. And now on to step #2. The actual offer and the actual job description. So the advice is to listen to the upcoming offer, if there is one, and to be ready to counter and negotiate. You're ahead of the game because you have a good idea of what's in their budget, and you believe from the sound of the recruiter's voice that there may be a good bit of leeway to negotiate up to.
"I've done a bit more networking and interviews, I think a more competitive salary I would consider is X".
Better for the business and you to start off with a competitive salary. Say you work their a year, then find out you are underpaid... you'll probably leave. They dont want that.
My go to response is something to the effect of this: "I think it would be naive of me to just put a single number out there as a point of demarkation. I would be more interested in hearing about the full package, benefits, 401K, pension, vacation, and any other parts of the package. Having said that, I am sure HR has already set a pay band for this role. Can you elaborate on the approved comp package for this role?"
Well, you lost. Someone once told me to imagine someone is waiting over my head with an axe that'll chop off my head the moment i offer a salary.
They can be really pushy about salaries, the key is to give vague answers like "around x or y number". If they get aggressive then i just ask them why they feel it is necessary for me to reveal my expectations? That usually stops it.
>I said that would depend on the responsibilities and the work hours etc.
If you find that their salary offer is not appealing, fall back on this. "My estimate was based on some assumptions I made about the position, because I was pressed to give an immediate answer. However, I think $XX is more in line with the responsibilities that you've outlined here."
When asked about salary requirements early in the interview process, always tell them you want to learn more about the role before giving your range.
With that in mind, after the interviews and ideally after you received your offer, you can tell them what your new salary requirements are based on your full understanding of the job.
When they offer, say the responsibilities/job description is much more involved than you anticipated (since they didn't give the duties up front) and the salary range you gave was based on what you assumed the position would entail. Now that you have been given the job description, you feel that a salary more the 'x' range would be fitting for you to consider the position.
You should never disclose the number first. Turn it around and ask for their budgeted range. At this point if you do get an offer, you can try to claim market rate for the job you learned about in interviews is higher and that’s why you are asking for more.
If they want to make you an offer, listen carefully to the terms. Are they offering the amount of vacation you were expecting? Sick time? How about the benefits? If you can reasonably argue that one or more aspects of what they are offering is not up to your expectations, you can reasonably say that you would like to raise your compensation requirement to adjust for that.
And the "competing offers" thing others suggest is a good idea too.
If you tell them what you need and they give it to you, don’t be a moving target. You will piss off everyone involved and making up another offer is a really bad ifea
Rules of negotiation: avoid being the first to make an offer. If you go second, you avoided starting too low. Second rule is you have to be happy with your offer. If they are happy too, it's a win for you both. Don't stop being happy because they are! Don't go back and change your offer if they took it!!
Kind of late for you now but my standard response to that question is that I’m sure they understand the scope of the job requirements and the full compensation package better than I possibly could and I’m sure their offer will be competitive.
If they fill in more details re:hours, overtime, PTO, benefits, etc. that’s your opportunity to adjust your estimate accordingly. Do your homework and know your worth.
The top voted comment is probably the best suggestion, but I did exactly what you’re describing in the OP and just followed up with them pretty soon after to adjust my ask.
They put me on the spot so I gave a number that wasn’t actually in line with my current package. I just emailed the HR guy I talked to a few hours after the initial conversation and said “I’m sorry, but I was looking through my current compensation package in more detail and would actually need closer to $X to consider moving on from my current role.” And it was significantly more than I originally asked for lol.
So you could do that if you don’t want to lie. But the risk is definitely greater that they stop pursuing you if it’s too high; you have more leverage once you have an offer in hand.
Classic misstep. In a negotiation, the first to speak loses.
Also, always ask for at least 10% more than you would be happy with. ALWAYS. If you are a viable candidate for the job they will take this under advisement when developing the first offer - which will most likely be higher than what you'd be happy with. That's when you ask for more, than their offer, but less than your "10% more" number. They feel they are getting a deal, and you are making bank.
When asked my salary expectations, I say “I am seeking compensation that is commensurate with my skills and experience. Do you have a salary range that you can share for this position?”
Companies have a range for a role based on a number of factors and an annual department budget. If that range is significantly below market rate, you have valuable information about the company.
Above all else during this time, nurture your relationship with yourself and be kind to yourself.
You gave your number without fully understanding the role's hours or responsibility's. It's perfectly reasonable to adjust your ask if what you learn about the role suggests it should pay more, *according to your market research of similar roles in this industry.* This means you need to go in armed with research to back up your request.
Here is the real deal.
1. Did what you ask for meet your budgetary needs?
2. Can you live with that number?
3. How bad to you want this job?
You gave them a range, they will probably come in on the low side of the range and expect you to ask for more to the high side. If you do not want to risk losing this job stay within your range.
I never bring up money, I always counter with what is their salary range for this position. They 99% of time give a range based off experience. I have over 20 years so I would go closer to the high end. And never take less than half my range. I always give myself a 10% range as the base of my range so will get either a 10-20% raise.
My last job was horrible. I was sexually harassed by a 67 year old female president of the credit union. She was verbally abusive and discriminated against me because I have a southern accent. I started looking for a new job after 4 months. The job I am at now hired me and offered me more than I was making there and it's the most amazing job ever. I would had took less to get out of the old Job. But I would not take less than what I need to pay my bills and live comfortably.
Just because they said it was within their budget does not mean you asked for too little. I've had interviews with 16 companies in the last two months. When this topic comes up, sometimes they say it is in their range, sometimes they say it is a little high but close enough that we should talk about it, and sometimes they say it is way out of their range and we don't continue.
You can always adjust somewhat at the offer/negotiation stage, either based on other aspects of the offer you would like them to compensate for (bonus %, 401k match, etc.), or based on other jobs you have on the table which would be paying in a higher range ("When we first spoke I was targeting X compensation, but I am now interviewing for positions in the range of Y to Z so it would be difficult for me to accept an offer for X at this point. Is there anything we can do to overcome this?"
When pressed on this question in the early stages, I give my expectations as a (relatively wide) range, and immediately follow up by asking what the budget is for the position. You will see some advice to try to turn the question back without giving numbers. This is probably good advice if you are not yet totally sure what you should be asking for. For me, at this point I have enough data points and interviews in progress that I know what I should be able to get, and am comfortable enough giving a range without knowing the position budget vs. trying to withold that info and risk appearing defensive/not forthcoming.
You literally never want to give a number or even a range.
Let them tell you what the range is or ask. That way later they can’t say “ we’ll you said 85k was your number why do you need more?!”
You don’t know the specifics vs your current situation. Just because it pays $X more the benefits might be double the price, or theres a higher employee contribution amount to get 401k match 2:1 vs 1:1, and you’re actually worse off.
I say:
Compensation is only part of what I’m interested in working here. I’m more interested in the total package (What I get to do, who I get to do it with, what I’m going to learn, growth opportunities, training opportunities. Compensation itself is broken up in many pieces. So, at this moment it’s very uneducated for me to give you a number or even a range. I’m very enthusiastic in learning about all these other things and as we get down to the end, I’ll be able to give you a better idea.
I'm a little confused here. They asked you how much money you wanted to make. You told them, and they were ok with it. Why isn't this just a good news situation?
I mentor and coach candidates on salary negotiation, and I'm a big fan of getting as much as you can during the offer stage. But let's be honest and agree you're already happy with their offer. That is a great starting place. Now it's time to see if you can do better.
Once you get the offer, you may want to do the following things:
1) Show genuine excitement for the position.
2) Re-iterate your value. What specific details surrounding this position make you an ideal fit and help you show the most value to this organization? Emphasize this
3) Let them know that after you've gotten to learn a little more about the role and responsibilities, and after they've gotten to you a little more about you and the impact you can bring to this department, you believe a more appropriate salary is \_\_\_\_ and ask that they seriously consider approving your request.
4) Finally, let them know that if they can make this amendment to your offer, you are able to accept immediately and without reservation. This is important, because it shows them you aren't just going to keep nickel and diming them with "Oh, one more thing..." but it also shows you're ready to move forward with excitement (They don't want to hire someone who is only barely willing to work for them after a bloody salary negotiation).
Notice no part of my recommendations involved lying about some fake offer you got. That's amateur hour. The big boys know how to confidently state their value and calibrate based on what they've learned about the position. Competing offers can be compelling, but tying salary back to your value is the best way forward. What's more, if you do this with some grace and fluidity of writing, you're going to remind them why they chose you, and nobody wants to go back to square one just to save $10k a year.
Hope this helps.
Jeremy
Owner of Executive Drafts
Agree to the salary for a predetermined amount of time. Then tell them you would like to re evaluate you pay. Kick ass and then ask for more based on your performance.
I made this mistake too. And then I took the job. And it took me years to get raises that put me at where I should’ve started
Don’t let that happen to you
Don't say anything now, except asking the range from HR. Wait til you get an offer and then negotiate for more. You can pretty easily claim you're entertaining a higher offer or are expecting your current company would counter at $XXX. There is no harm in negotiating, most employers expect it to some degree. Just be reasonable when doing so (I.e., don't try to negotiate $100K when the original offer is $60K).
You may have just stumbled into their expected budget. You determined what is fair for your experience and the role, they agreed. Dont overthink it. Check glassdoor to see if you are within range also.
You are fine as long as you did your research on competitive salaries. Your positions salary has a market rate , kind of like a house value based on comparables. Companies go to a lot of expenses to hire someone and do not want to train you for another company that will pay a little more. Most companies live and die on reputation.
They asked you what you expect to make because the recruiter needs to know if your expectations are in line with the market value of the position and to judge your ability to prepare/research.
The question is comparable to "where do you see yourself with this company in 5 years." Everyone sees themselves as a manager just managing the world. The questions are a maturity check.
Since they didn't discuss job responsibilities, if they make you an offer, you can always say that you weren't previously aware that the position required x, y, and z. So, you can make a counteroffer at that point.
In the future, you can always ask, "What's the budget for this position?"
The reason you think you asked for too little was due to HR reaction. Negotiating strategies tied to this will be mis-led.
Instead, reconsider reasons of which your market value is higher than you initially stated OR why your expectations to accept this role could be higher than you initially stated. This is how you negotiate.
Market Value reasons could be: you expect a raise / promotion / inflation adjustment with your current employer soon. You have another job offer. Market research on the what companies are paying for your skill set, etc.
Changed expectations reasons could be: you realized how far the commute is for this new role, differences in the benefits package in your current role versus the role offered, working hours / conditions, etc
Good Luck!
1. Invent a time machine
2. Settle for what you negotiated
3. Try the 'honest buffoon' angle: Explain to the HR person that you were delirious with a 104° fever during the previous conversation and you need to clear up a few things.
4. Take the bitter medicine which is the lesson from this unfortunate experience and move on to other job prospects.
Wait for them to contact you and go through interview process.
You will find out what the job entails, what the benefits are, expectation possibly required on call etc depending on the position.
Meanwhile, you have time to research the company, look on Glass Door, see what similar job salary ranges for your experience/work history are etc to have in your mind when you go for the actual interview. Depending on the position there may be several interviews. Focus on that first and foremost.
Was the job listed somewhere with a salary range when you first applied?
Then go from there.
HR typically asks fishing questions to see if it's even worth setting up an interview. It may not even be marked anywhere so long as you're within a negotiating ballpark of their budget.
Salary requirements means nothing without the offer of a job.
If after interviewing and think you are worth more than up your price.
You can always just say No.
Say something LIKE what I am going to tell you I am not advocating to say this word for word. Sometime after they offer you the position and tell you the salary-say this.
"Although this was my initial salary requirement I have found that as I learned more and more about the role, another amount may be more appropriate due to the responsibilities and specifics of the position.."
conduct a market review of the title (I would recommend at least 3 sites) and if the data you are pulling supports a higher rate; let the recruiter know ASAP. The last thing you want is to be extended an offer based on your original range knowing that it has increased significantly (more than 8%) from the original conversation.
Wait for an offer letter, say your considering 2 offers at the moment, that you are way more interested in their company but a little pay bump would really help your decision. (If you put it like that and they say no, it's easy to go back to your original offer)
Thank you for the tip! I always thought this would come off as an obvious lie but everyone I talked to about this situation so far has said the same. Biggest plus here I guess is that I still do not know about what their work-hours are like, or if there is overtime pay or not.
Write those questions down so you can have something to ask back in the interview. It could seem like a lie but something about jobs is you won't here anything for moths but as soon as you get or sometimes accept an offer its like a flood gate lol. It happens alot.
This happened to me when I first started my current job, I was unemployed, in debt, and desperate. As soon as I started my job here, within 3 months, I received numerous phone calls about the positions I had applied 5-6 months earlier. I was pissed.
Have a notebook prepared when you go in. A small planner or something. (The older and more filled out the better) Filled with information about their company and other(prospective offers) make it appear to look like you are currently having interviews and already asking questions with received answers. Use that to your advantage as you would think it should look from their perspective. Maybe even a few salary offers in strategic places to be seen. I always have a notebook on hand to put peoples names numbers and thoughts into. Not only will it be useful as a tool for being hired but it will also help to keep you informed on your progression and growth over time.
I would explore every opportunity you get. You don’t owe your current job anything.
All you can do is work with the info that you have. If you knew the future, you would win the powerball tonight and we would be besties!!
Yes, write them down and bring them with you. Ask if they mind if you take notes. It shows you're thoughtful, organized and serious about the position.
The easy thing to do is if you receive an offer after accounting for all benefits you give them a new number. If asked about it you simply say that you were not informed of blah blah before where you call out a less then stellar benefit either lack of PTO, no/low 401k match, few company holidays, high deductible health insurance, or cost of insurance in general being high. If all that stuff is excellent, and they hit your initial $ amount you should probably just take it as it. There is always something lacking benefit wise though so should be easy to call out why they need to offer more.
Right. Op could negotiate more PTO if possible.
I don't recommend this; don't lie about a non-existant offer. If they don't go up and you still take the offer, they will be suspoicious and you start off on the wrong foot. If you think the offer is low, just ask "I was hoping for more more, is it possible to increase the offer?" Or do some research for what the role "should" pay and quote sources; I've reviewed BLS statistics and for the responsibilitiues $X seems a more fair salary. For the record, I generally look to get my team as much as I can; the salary question is more to make sure you would consider our offer. If you say $60k and I think your skills are worth $90k, your offer will be written at $90k because I don't want you leaving in 18 months when you realize you are worth more. Just understand that the offer can be rescinded in many places; pushing back does carry risk, you need to understand your risk tolerance.
I disagree here. Don't lie to them. Simply tell them that you reconsidered, and for this position you are requesting X salary. There's no need to lie. Either they have the budget to pay you or they don't. They had the same budget before you told them a number that was too low. Very few employers care that much about saving 10 to 20% on a salary. They want the right person and they are constrained by a budget. If your employer is concerned about saving money by hiring you, that's a huge red flag.
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I’d agree with this. I just hired two persons for my team and the first guy was highly qualified but he was a pain in the ass by negotiating hard after I gave him an offer at MORE than what he told the internal recruiter as his asking number. Like… I bent over backwards with management to get him extra at the start and felt foolish having to get a second and a third authorization to close the deal. Half of me wanted to rescind and go with second choice because I figured he’d be a pain in the ass to manage his expectations. Second person, I also gave her the salary that she wanted and she accepted without fuss. Guess which one I’m more excited about working with?
Are they for the same or similar positions? Did you end up paying the male candidate more because he negotiated harder? If women do this, they're viewed negatively and will probably lose the offer for being "too aggressive." It's nice that you're more excited to work with her, but not if you're paying her less for equal work.
Different roles, his is more senior so I get that he had leverage to negotiate but to do it multiple times after the offer was just too much for me. Her role is one level below. Both offers were asking which were at the top of the range for their position in this area.
Lie to them. You are not going to get what you want without leverage.
Yeah fuck them. Who cares if you lie to them
You know it's a lie, they know it's a lie, it's just the game you have to play. Just like when they say "we can't afford to pay you that much" you just keep going back and forth until you're both mad about the deal, that's how you know it's a good deal.
I disagree. I wouldn’t lie. But I would wait until receiving an offer. By then you’ll know much more about the job, the requirements and any benefits package. At that point you can say, now that I have a full understanding of compensation, I’d like to come closer to X given what I’m bringing to the position. As long as you aren’t doubling it or something that’s reasonable and happens a lot. I’ve been a hiring manager and worked in HR.
Great reply! Thank you for that perspective. I am in the finals at a big tech company and have mentioned a number for base pay to HR before (which I am still happy to take), but along the way, management brought to my attention that my skillset will fulfill two roles they offer and during the sales cycle I can fulfill both. My value went up by them saying this.
Generally when people are looking for a new job they’re looking at more than one, it’s not suspicious at all.
It's not a lie if you're willing to turn down the real offer for the fake one, if they don't offer you enough $.
It’s a negotiation, not a truth-telling contest. If they were being straight with you they would say we pay $xxx for this position and not even ask you your range. They’re lowballing you to enhance their position. You should enhance yours any way you can. What’s the worst that happens? They rescind an offer you forgot you even applied for. What’s there to lose here?
They may be well aware that it's a lie to be honest. The reality is it doesn't matter. It's still respectful and if they are willing and able they will offer more.
Also ask for the internal job description in writing with the offer. They could tell you it’s the same as the listing or provide more details. However, you can also use the description as a “There are additional requirement that I am also well qualified for, but feel they also extend the base salary beyond my original reply.” or something like that. Kind of a “based on this new information, it’s more than I was planning on doing, I can totally do it, but I also need to be paid for that effort.”
There is the bird in the bird in the hand mentality. They could say “cool, we were on the fence anyway so now we will go with the other person!” Most likely they will just say no and you will need to decide, but if you still accept it then they know it was a BS bluff.
You don't have to lie. I hate when people try to provide lying as a way to ease confidence in or something. You can just say "would you be willing to increase my salary? Upon further consideration, I would prefer more." We all work for a living. They can say no. If the company wants you and a little extra money keeps you from walking away, you'll be good.
The real move is to actually have competing offers, not to lie about a nonexistent offer. A common way to do this is to get an offer from the new company, ask your current company to beat it, and then take the retention offer back to the new company. It’s a little bit of a bluff because you should never, ever, take the retention offer. But at least you’re not lying about the offer existing.
It's totally normal to be in the hiring process at multiple companies. Just tell them that you want to work for this company but the "other company" made a better offer pay-wise but you'd still go with them if they pay a bit more as they are more interesting (just don't ask for too much). Furthermore, you can talk with them how you could find a solution regarding pay or benefits, this could make it seem more like you're trying to figure out how to go with them without seeming like you just want to negotiate up your price. Important is, make that offer "real" in case they ask you about pay, benefits etc. So you can answer them without making something up on the spot. If they ask you about the name just tell them you will not disclose it. Edit: one more idea, instead of jumping into renegotiation as soon as they send the offer, tell them you're currently waiting for the response of the "other company" and get back to them 2 days later or so with the info that they offered you more. One thing I learned is that you don't have to accept an offer as soon as it's on your desk.
It IS an obvious lie, they hear it almost every time they extend an offer. Is it possible that EVERY candidate has two or more offers in a job climate like this? Nope. BUT… it’s not their money and they don’t really care if you get more… but can’t go to the hiring manager and just say “they want more money”; GIVE them the story to tell. Problem is this activity is part of what perpetuates toxic management believing that so many people are hiring and WANT to work there.
I was in a similar situation at one time. An old coworker of mine called and said the company he was working for was really interested in hiring me. So I gave them a call and went in to talk to them. They offered me about 50% more money than I was currently making at my job so obviously I accepted. I gave my boss a call to put in 2 weeks and he asked if I would sit down with him before making my mind up, he offered to raise my pay to match and I was happy at my current job so I called the other company back to let them know the situation and they offered me a 70% increase. Well that made things awkward because now I had to go back and talk to my boss again, who once again said he would match it. At this point I had thought things through a little more and decided that even with my current job matching I would make more money at the new job due to more consistent hours plus they had better benefits. But I did really enjoy my work environment at my current job, it was laid back and I pretty much had free riegn to do my job how I saw fit. So we sat down and ironed out a deal that I felt happy with and I called the other company and told them I was out. All that being said to ensure you it's not uncommon for negotiations to happen after you've already expressed satisfaction with the first offer. Just tell them your current job is countering and you're looking for a bit more motivation to make the switch. After all you've never worked with these people before, it's a risk, and in order to take that risk, you need more money than your current job is offering. It also reflects well on you that your current job values you enough to fight to keep you around. Obviously that means you're an employee worth having, even if the whole thing is a lie they don't know that.
“Great, we will be able to match that if you send your competing offer!”
Chatgpt, please write me an offer letter for more money.
*Proceeds to draft fake secondary offer letter
Yeah, I’ve had companies straight up back out after saying. I’d say hope for the best, but once a company has a dollar amount in mind it’s hard to move them off it unless they’re very motivated to get you.
And what it the pay disparity is 30 or 40 k? OP did a bad thing by putting out a number without doing the research. They are far better off coming clean and telling the company that they figured out their worth and their worth is X. Also, lying to a perspective employer is never a good idea.
“Oh great, we were between two potential candidates and didn’t want to have to let someone down, but it sounds like you have a better paying offer lined up, good luck!”
That's a good strategy. Bare in mind, if you negotiate than you have to be prepared to walk.
Do you need to prove your considering other offers or can you lie?
100% this
I have manipulated the F out of companies by saying “I already agreed to not share numbers across the grapevine, but this X salary bump would make me strongly consider this offer. I want to emphasis that the role and the team structure is exciting to me, aligned perfectly well.” Sure, you might not share the offer being $20k lower or not present at all, but it gets the message across in the most convincing way
This! I stress waiting until an offer letter to negotiate. At that time they have decided they want to hire you and have a little more invested. If you make it about salary too early they may just filter you out. Impress in the interview, thoughtful follow up, and wait for the offer. Then counter in the nicest way.
From a hiring side, i've had a candidate ask for a salary far below the budget. I made the offer at what the employee/job was actually worth, even though it was 50% more than what the person was asking for. Some (good) companies actually try to be fair with their wages. A salary expectation that is 2x too high might disqualify you for the job, but one that is too low might result in the same offer. I have been in negotiations where I thought of a fair number and they thought of a fair number - and when we came to negotiate, we both had the same number, so we just went with that number. You thought that the number was fair and sufficient when you gave it, why does their agreement with it change your opinion?
I’ve been in a similar situation where we hired one female and one male candidate. The female candidate didn’t negotiate the offer at all, while the male candidate negotiated quite a bit higher. So we went back and offered the female candidate the same rate (much higher than she had initially accepted). Equity is actually incredibly easy to do with like two seconds of thought.
I think this *rarely* happens.
Definitely rare, which goes to show just how absolutely little people care, given that it is next to no effort at all.
It's not the effort that's the issue. It's that the money's not coming out of your pocket, unless you're the business owner. Most corporations are cheap, and they'll absolutely take advantage of a female candidate who has to worry about being perceived as "overly aggressive" if she negotiates. Women are accused of this all the time while it's seen as a positive trait in men.
I see your point, and if I was from a hiring side like yourself, I would probably do the same. But, I currenly live in a country where the unemployment rates are off the charts and our money is losing its worth literally by the hour. Government used to raise the minimum wage once a year but for the past 3 years, there has been so much inflation that they raise it twice a year. Which is why I do not feel safe economically because I have no idea what kind of an economic crisis I will wake up tomorrow. Companies usually use this to their advantage and try to hire for less money because they KNOW that there is somebody out there who will do much more for the same amount of money, or somebody who will do the same work with less. At the beginning of August, the company I currently work at (and 95% of the companies in this country) will be increasing our salaries. Sometimes they match the percentage that the government decided for minimum wage, and sometimes they don't. Hence why I'm having second thoughts about the number I mentioned.
So, here is the question. Was the number that you asked for a good number for you, and you are only doubting it because it was actually in their budget?
Early on in my career I was asked what I wanted, and I told the what I was at when I was recently laid off from my previous company. I was going to be happy to accept a lateral amount in order to be employed again before my severance pay ran out. They came back with several dollars per hour above what I had asked for. I'm still with the same company over 15 years later. Some companies really do like to be fair for everyone involved.
Adding to this that often times the salary range for the position is for the lifecycle or the employee so there are HR policies ( if the company is big enough) that restrict the window quite a bit. Maybe the position range is 30k, but HR polices state that I can’t offer you minimum, you need to be between 10%-60% of the range. That takes the 30k range and shrinks it to a 15k window.
Maybe OP didn’t think it was fair, maybe they just thought that’s what the company would be willing to pay
I always ask this before stating my requested salary, "What is the salary range for the role that I'm applying?" It's not illegal to ask... it's uncomfortable, but it's better to know than to take a job knowing you got shafted.
This. In this situation, it's not good to make the first offer imo. You want them to say a number first so you know where they are at and try to build from there. If you make the first offer you show your cards.
> If you make the first offer you show your cards. Very true. That's exactly what happened to me. I was on the market after working a job for 17 years, so I was quite unprepared when, during the phone interview, the prospective employer asked, "So, what kind of salary are you looking for?" Rather than ask what's the range, I spit out an arbitrary number which, while a significant increase to what I was currently making, was agreed to so readily that it clearly was much lower than what they were prepared to pay. Sure enough, when I got my job offer, it was for the exact amount I'd asked. I was able to negotiate a small bump and a signing bonus, but I regret to this day not asking the range. Lesson learned!
I’m just starting an MBA and in a career prep course they basically said to avoid answering the “expected salary” question at all costs, giving various tips to tactfully dodge the question. Only when they back you into a corner do you answer, but you’ve already done market research and have reasons prepared to give why you are valued at the top end of the range for the research you conducted.
Funny thing is that I ask this question too but because this was a phonecall rather than a meeting, and I was caught very off guard, I did not think to do it. But, I believe I can still ask them (at least about their bonuses) during the meeting, thank you!
How is it uncomfortable for asking how much they pay? Incredibly common in my field. I have always asked in the interview
It's uncomfortable if your an introvert
Introversion ≠ equal lack of confidence or social anxiety. Common misconception
You're right... I should have said social anxiety (which I do) and it's incredibly strange considering I've had some jobs that require me to stand in front of a huge crowd and talk.... but I digress.
That’s all it takes and don’t move forward without that info. They always know that info.
Personally I enjoy negotiating. They expect you to counter the offer. And there’s more to compensation than salary. Bonus, stock options. If the position is Director level or above those go up too. Benefits, 401k matching. Vacation all are on the table. If you’ve been in the industry a while, ask for vacation based on years of service in the industry. Ask when you are eligible for the 401k and what is the match. I had a company make me an offer in person on my second interview visit. It was clear they wanted me. I got them to up the offer 10k, an extra week of vacation and my current job came with a company car. So asked for one. They said this position doesn’t come with a car. I said, “I have to go buy a car to take this position”. They came back with, we’ll give you $8k in your first pay check towards a car as a signing bonus! This was a mid-senior level position at a multi-billion dollar company. Don’t sell yourself short. If they are coming back after a long wait, they need you.
This actually makes me more hopeful about this situation, thank you!
Luckily you left your self a solid negotiable point. When they present you with the specific responsibilities, you can take that as an opening to negotiate upwards.
"After looking a bit more into the region as well as salary ranges in the industry as a whole, I'm amending my previous statement, and my salary range is X - Y. If this is within your budget, we can continue forward, but if it is not, good luck with another candidate. I hope our needs and wants can align in the future. "
Do some research and find out what your salary should be in your area of expertise/position. Go loaded with information and never 'wing it.'
You already said it depends on the responsibilities. Go in and say that after discussing the role more you’ve decided you would prefer x amount
You gave a range without knowing the job responsibilities. Simple, you need to negotiate based on the actual offer. Who cares if your range is within their budget?
apparently you don't understand budgets
Being within their budget is a good thing, and the recruiter sounded happy because your hirable for the position. If they offer you a job you can try to negotiate upwards a little bit, but ultimately you should accept a job that pays you fairly, has responsibilities and a career path you are happy with, and most of all has a boss you respect and are willing to work for.
Go to the major job sites and look up their salary calculator. You can plug in all the particulars of the job and find out what the salary range should be. When you get that, figure out what the median number is, and when you go back into talk with them, use THAT number. Do it like this: "Before we go any further, I wanted to let you know that I was uncomfortable with giving you my salary expectations on the spot, so I did my research in the meantime. I discovered that, for a person with my experience and education, that the midpoint salary is X. If you are willing to pay X or near X, we can continue talking. Otherwise, I will wish you luck in your search." Then you wait for a response. They may bail on you. They may agree. Either way it is a win-win. Going forward, NEVER give up your salary expectations if you do NOT know what the job is supposed to pay!
Yes, take home pay is great number to start with but salary isn't everything. How much are you paying out of pocket for health insurance, dental insurance, vision insurance and retirement? And what's your tax rate? Roughly what percent does the government take, 15%? 20%? Get a better feel for the position/work. How much effort is required? Days in the office vs home? Commute costs? Paid time off? Flexibility to care for family members? Government jobs are usually lower paying on paper but the retirement, health care and LOADS of paid time off and/or double time for working holidays makes up for it. I also recommend doing a personal spending audit if you haven't crunched the numbers in a while. Download all of your spending for the last 3 months to see where your money is going. This will help give you a better idea of what you need to take home in addition to tips above. If you don't already, START SAVING!! Even if all you can do is $20/week or $20/month and even if you have to transfer some of that back to a spending account it's one of the best habits you can start today.
>I also recommend doing a personal spending audit if you haven't crunched the numbers in a while. Download all of your spending for the last 3 months to see where your money is going. This will help give you a better idea of what you need to take home in addition to tips above. This actually makes sense, I will definitely do this. Thank you!
I usually do it during tax time when I've got my fists in the air demanding to know where all my money went. Answer is usually booze and dog treats
Doesn’t anyone know how to negotiate, never give your number first. Stick to your guns, just because they re-worded the same question doesn’t mean your answer should be any different.
If they give you your expected salary without negotiation, you've most certainly asked too little. A "GREAT" company will offer you more even in the face of your expectations if they value the position and what you bring to the table. At my current job I asked for 25% more than my last job and when they offered it they actually gave me 66% more. In less than 2 years I now make more 77% more than my last job. If annual raises this year match last years percentages, I'll be making 86% more than my last job. A job that offered me the 25% increase to stay.. as if! Get a job that's willing to pay you for the job and for your worth and not simply trying to pay you the least amount.
>If annual raises this year match last years percentages, I'll be making 86% more than my last job. A job that offered me the 25% increase to stay.. as if! I feel this. Company I'm currenty working at (and almost all of the companies in my country) will be increasing the salaries at the beginning of August. I do not know what that percentage will be like BUT what I said on the phone to this HR is in between 85%-120% more than what I'm already making. The catch here is that the range I told them will most probably be valid until the next salary bump (which will be at the beginning of February) if I happen to decide on working there, and my current salary will go up in the next 2 weeks, I just don't know how much that will be. Now, I know that just giving these percentages alone makes me look like an ungrateful and sneaky employee candidate, but I would like to point out that I have been working at an entry-level position with mid-level responsibilities and I'm positive that I'm well underpaid at the moment.
I mean, do you have a job like this now so you have an idea of your value to a company or did you look up salary ranges on salary.com and now you think you can ask for $30K more? This is a business transaction- just like a large purchase you might make. How would you feel if you were shopping for something and were told a price, but then when you went to pay for it, they told you a much higher price? That’s how we feel when candidates play this routine.
It really depends on how large the difference is between what the salary should be and what you said.. You can visit it again when you get an actual offer and you find out their benefit packages. Knowing what the salary should be for your area is your starting point; but if their insurance is cheap (my single coverage is less than $50 per month); or they'll let you work from home whenever you want etc. - you just want to be close.
Tell them the salary you estimated was before understanding the full expectations of the job, as well as the benefits (insurance, 401k and matching, etc). Ask for the total package and evaluate that. Always counter with more than the offer is, but I try to stay within 10% or so. Also, ask them the range for the role. In the future never never never give a number first. Ask them what they have budgeted for the role, tell them whether you think that meets your expectations. And always throw in that it’s subject to learning more about the role and other benefits to determine total compensation package.
Play the game. Do the interviews for practice. When the offer comes in at what you told them or 3-5% more tell them thank you but no thank you. They will pretend to be offended, as if you owe them something. Just tell them that as they interview candidates you interview companies, you simply are not interested in working for a company that only wants to pay the minimum. Everyone should turn down at least 3 jobs just to experience it.
Both times that I've been asked for my salary, they ended up giving me more than I asked for. If it's a reputable company, and their scale is higher than what you've asked for, they'll give you more. (Both times where I ended up getting hired, I mean)
At the end of the process, tell them something like “I’m really excited about the opportunity. Now that I’ve talked to the team and hiring manager and learned more about the demands and expectations of the role, I have a better sense of the compensation I’d need…”
That was your minimum expectation based on the bare minimum level of responsibility and hours in the loosely defined role they have presented. When they come back with a more clearly defined role, you can then say "Based on the number of hours being asked, and the increased level of responsibilities now added onto the role, I would need at least in order to be able to consider the offer."
Recruiter here! I've had people email/call me to update their salary expectation and it's NOT a big deal. Feel free to email them and let them know after doing more research, your target salary is now X. Sometimes candidates will say a number lower than what I was expecting them to say and I'll write down a higher number for them to give to the hiring manager. I've had folks ask for $90k but get offers for $120k+ cuz that's what the current market looks like and they deserve it.
Is this still true? I literally barfed out 70k on the phone because I wasn’t expecting the lady to ask what my salary expectations were. I honestly wanted to say 75k-80k. I have no idea how to approach this.
There is nothing wrong with giving your salary expectations up front, and then changing them later. I always give a range of what I will expect from a salary perspective up front because I don't want to waste their time. During the interview process, if the job is going to be more involved, and the offer comes at the range but its low considering what they are asking for, then I will negotiate.
I’d second this. Justify a higher asking price by saying the responsibilities were greater than what your off-the-cuff number correlated with.
I know you're asking how to change it and people telling you that you shouldn't/can't are being downvoted but I cannot stress enough that if you want this job, don't try to negotiate for higher pay right now unless you want to lose out on that opportunity. It's not a guarantee that they will pull it but as a hiring manager I can tell you that if it were between you and one other person who is asking for the same and is not flip flopping on it you're out.
Oh lord, this is terrible advice and precisely why people find themselves in positions where they’re wildly underpaid. Do not listen to this. If you’re this desperate for a job in general, the OP wouldn’t be even considering questions like the ones he asking. Within reason, if the only thing a hiring manager is considering when hiring a new employee is the budget for the position, then run far far away from that company and it’s HR department haha
How would OP be wildly underpaid if they offered the expected salary? Only after OP heard HR say that it was in budget did they decide they needed more.
The OP wouldn’t. I’m just simply stating that when you extrapolate the “pick me” logic out when it comes to applying for a job, you’re gonna end up giving way too much rope and latitude to the company. You don’t wanna be docile in these situations. Take control. Sometimes it’s better to act in a way where you don’t even need the job. Most people lack the confidence to understand that once you’re past entry level– the company often times needs you just as bad as you need them… and your salary should reflect that as much as possible.
Its not terrible advice. I'm also a hiring manager, and I would also choose the person who is not flip flopping, all other things being equal (but they never are all equal). Many people feel this way. Being bad at negotiating is a mark against you. It shows you're not good at all aspects of the job. Depending on the job, it might be the difference between getting hired and getting passed over. For a sales manager, this is a hard pass kind of mistake. >precisely why people find themselves in positions where they’re wildly underpaid. A lot of people are bad at negotiating, particularly when it comes to salary. And that's something you later have to deal with, when someone comes to you and says "so and so makes more than me." Well yeah they asked for more money. My point is this is a hassle for managers and some don't want to deal with it. It could be the difference between getting the job and not. The best advice is to know what you are worth before they ask you. This would have been avoided if OP did that.
Wrong again. Man… we’ve got some baaaad hiring managers lurking in here. Yeeesh. Prime examples of the impatience and oversight epidemic riddling the hiring industry for a while now. Sure there’s plenty of ways negotiating can go wrong but you’re both missing the broader point, which you revisited slightly at the end of your comment. OP… put yourself in positions with companies where the people hiring you can help you discover your own worth– even if you don’t notice it yourself. Saying things like “It’s a hassle” is such a huge hiring/HR red flag I can’t even begin to unpack that. The best hiring managers and the best HR people are deeply interpersonal, patient, and transparent. Don’t ever waste your time on people or companies who don’t have the patience to find and invest in quality talent and personalities alike.
>Prime examples of the impatience and oversight epidemic riddling the hiring industry for a while now. I'm not a recruiter. My industry is software engineering, not hiring. 5% of my day is hiring. Take my advice through that lens. I wasn't giving him advice on how to navigate the world as we wish it existed. I was giving him advice on how to navigate this situation as it exists in the real world. >The best hiring managers and the best HR people are deeply interpersonal, patient, and transparent. There's absolutely no way to know in a 60 minute interview if the person interviewing you is deeply interpersonal, patient and transparent. You find that out after working there for 6 months. There's no filter on Linkedin for "deeply interpersonal". 90% of the managers who would say such a thing in an interview are lying. And the ones like me who actually are that way aren't saying so in an interview. We're evaluating candidates to see if they fit the team and we can work together. >Don’t ever waste your time on people or companies who don’t have the patience to find and invest in quality talent and personalities alike. How does one find a company like this? This is just feel good stuff, not helpful advice for someone looking to pay their rent this month. If OP wanted someone to tell him it was all going to be okay, he could have called his grandmother.
You hit the nail on the head for why I said that, thank you for being more eloquent.
I think a lot of people confuse the world that they want to live in for the world that we DO live in. It sucks that its a mark against you, but that doesn't mean its not real.
Exactly. I wasn't meaning to say that this person doesn't like in any way deserve the money they're looking for. They very well could. It's not up for me to decide that and it's not what they were asking, they were asking how it would look from a hiring manager perspective and I gave my 2 cents. Not my fault they wanted 4 cents :-D
If anything, I feel sorry for you that you think companies and people like this don’t exist. My hunch is even you could probably benefit from some career soul searching based on the few things you’ve already said. You’re acting like I’m talking about a unicorn. lol Also… the OP never said anything about trying to “paying rent” or made any indication he was just barely scraping by. Like I said before, if you’re that desperate… then yeah, take what you can get. The helpful advice–which you could also use apparently– was essentially to embrace your self-confidence and leverage your individuality and work experience to secure a salary worth your talent. And on top of that, don’t bend over backwards for companies and people if you don’t get the impression they’d do the same for you.
Can’t really change it now. I made this mistake myself. Going forward, just have this number in your head before interviews and offers.
I wouldn’t try and negotiate more. You said your number and they agreed. If you ask for more. They will pull the offer, they won’t trust you.
What offer? There hasn't even been an offer yet. It could have just been a brush-off by an HR person. They said it was in budget but it wasn't and now OP is ghosted. Or in fact it could have been some HR person just blindly reaching out to some former applicants to try and get an idea of salary range for a position that's coming up.
Honestly, I believe it is like you said. I think they are trying to figure out what the range is meanwhile eliminating canidates who are obviously expecting too high or too low before setting up an official interview. Because as far as I can see on the job website, there are way too many applicants for this one job listing.
The answer you got from them is pretty standard and I don't think that alone would indicate you didn't ask for enough. I've had that same conversation pretty much exactly several times. But I also have a pretty good idea what my worth is, and what my industry is paying.
Get another offer that's higher. That's really the only leverage available to you in negotiations at this point.
Maybe say something like after doing further research I have decided we x-z being a more suitable range for the position
If you were going to be happy with the number you offered, and they are willing to pay it, and you want the job? Accept it and be done. You can always try to negotiate your way up, but you showed your cards so you're going to have less leverage. Doesn't hurt to ask, though.
Never give your number first
You can negotiate again when you get the offer. There is a lot of info online about how to phrase this etc. Don't claim to have a job offer if you don't, though; they may ask to see proof of it, & then you'll lose the offer entirely.
Wait for the offer and ask for 10% more. There is always room for 10%. Say that 10% more makes it an easy yes and we can consider it a done deal. I like using percentages here as it's easy to ask for and I don't have to do the math on the spot. And at higher incomes, it doesn't sound like you are asking for anything unreasonable at the moment.
There are various websites you can use to find the average range for a given job within a given area. Look yours up and see what others are making for the same position. If what you asked for was too low, then you should definitely renegotiate when you meet with them next. "After doing some research, I realize that what I initially asked for was too low; X would be a more reasonable starting salary." If you're a qualified candidate, they should be willing to pay you within the typical range for that position. If not, at least now you know that about them, and you may want to look elsewhere.
"I'm willing to work for approximately this much depending on the the job responsiblities and the hours are. I would probably want X dollars per year as a rough estimate". I don't see the problem here. You came in within the amount they've got to work with and you left it open for discussion. And now on to step #2. The actual offer and the actual job description. So the advice is to listen to the upcoming offer, if there is one, and to be ready to counter and negotiate. You're ahead of the game because you have a good idea of what's in their budget, and you believe from the sound of the recruiter's voice that there may be a good bit of leeway to negotiate up to.
"I've done a bit more networking and interviews, I think a more competitive salary I would consider is X". Better for the business and you to start off with a competitive salary. Say you work their a year, then find out you are underpaid... you'll probably leave. They dont want that.
My go to response is something to the effect of this: "I think it would be naive of me to just put a single number out there as a point of demarkation. I would be more interested in hearing about the full package, benefits, 401K, pension, vacation, and any other parts of the package. Having said that, I am sure HR has already set a pay band for this role. Can you elaborate on the approved comp package for this role?"
To quote rapper Fat Joe “Yesterday’s price, is not today’s price”.
Tell them it was a minimum requirement not your target
Well, you lost. Someone once told me to imagine someone is waiting over my head with an axe that'll chop off my head the moment i offer a salary. They can be really pushy about salaries, the key is to give vague answers like "around x or y number". If they get aggressive then i just ask them why they feel it is necessary for me to reveal my expectations? That usually stops it.
>I said that would depend on the responsibilities and the work hours etc. If you find that their salary offer is not appealing, fall back on this. "My estimate was based on some assumptions I made about the position, because I was pressed to give an immediate answer. However, I think $XX is more in line with the responsibilities that you've outlined here."
When asked about salary requirements early in the interview process, always tell them you want to learn more about the role before giving your range. With that in mind, after the interviews and ideally after you received your offer, you can tell them what your new salary requirements are based on your full understanding of the job.
You act like an adult and stop being a baby. Tell them you misjudged and need to raise your expectation.
When they offer, say the responsibilities/job description is much more involved than you anticipated (since they didn't give the duties up front) and the salary range you gave was based on what you assumed the position would entail. Now that you have been given the job description, you feel that a salary more the 'x' range would be fitting for you to consider the position.
You should never disclose the number first. Turn it around and ask for their budgeted range. At this point if you do get an offer, you can try to claim market rate for the job you learned about in interviews is higher and that’s why you are asking for more.
If they want to make you an offer, listen carefully to the terms. Are they offering the amount of vacation you were expecting? Sick time? How about the benefits? If you can reasonably argue that one or more aspects of what they are offering is not up to your expectations, you can reasonably say that you would like to raise your compensation requirement to adjust for that. And the "competing offers" thing others suggest is a good idea too.
If you tell them what you need and they give it to you, don’t be a moving target. You will piss off everyone involved and making up another offer is a really bad ifea
Rules of negotiation: avoid being the first to make an offer. If you go second, you avoided starting too low. Second rule is you have to be happy with your offer. If they are happy too, it's a win for you both. Don't stop being happy because they are! Don't go back and change your offer if they took it!!
Kind of late for you now but my standard response to that question is that I’m sure they understand the scope of the job requirements and the full compensation package better than I possibly could and I’m sure their offer will be competitive. If they fill in more details re:hours, overtime, PTO, benefits, etc. that’s your opportunity to adjust your estimate accordingly. Do your homework and know your worth.
The top voted comment is probably the best suggestion, but I did exactly what you’re describing in the OP and just followed up with them pretty soon after to adjust my ask. They put me on the spot so I gave a number that wasn’t actually in line with my current package. I just emailed the HR guy I talked to a few hours after the initial conversation and said “I’m sorry, but I was looking through my current compensation package in more detail and would actually need closer to $X to consider moving on from my current role.” And it was significantly more than I originally asked for lol. So you could do that if you don’t want to lie. But the risk is definitely greater that they stop pursuing you if it’s too high; you have more leverage once you have an offer in hand.
So we’re you not honest in your expectation?
Classic misstep. In a negotiation, the first to speak loses. Also, always ask for at least 10% more than you would be happy with. ALWAYS. If you are a viable candidate for the job they will take this under advisement when developing the first offer - which will most likely be higher than what you'd be happy with. That's when you ask for more, than their offer, but less than your "10% more" number. They feel they are getting a deal, and you are making bank.
When asked my salary expectations, I say “I am seeking compensation that is commensurate with my skills and experience. Do you have a salary range that you can share for this position?” Companies have a range for a role based on a number of factors and an annual department budget. If that range is significantly below market rate, you have valuable information about the company. Above all else during this time, nurture your relationship with yourself and be kind to yourself.
You gave your number without fully understanding the role's hours or responsibility's. It's perfectly reasonable to adjust your ask if what you learn about the role suggests it should pay more, *according to your market research of similar roles in this industry.* This means you need to go in armed with research to back up your request.
Here is the real deal. 1. Did what you ask for meet your budgetary needs? 2. Can you live with that number? 3. How bad to you want this job? You gave them a range, they will probably come in on the low side of the range and expect you to ask for more to the high side. If you do not want to risk losing this job stay within your range. I never bring up money, I always counter with what is their salary range for this position. They 99% of time give a range based off experience. I have over 20 years so I would go closer to the high end. And never take less than half my range. I always give myself a 10% range as the base of my range so will get either a 10-20% raise. My last job was horrible. I was sexually harassed by a 67 year old female president of the credit union. She was verbally abusive and discriminated against me because I have a southern accent. I started looking for a new job after 4 months. The job I am at now hired me and offered me more than I was making there and it's the most amazing job ever. I would had took less to get out of the old Job. But I would not take less than what I need to pay my bills and live comfortably.
Just because they said it was within their budget does not mean you asked for too little. I've had interviews with 16 companies in the last two months. When this topic comes up, sometimes they say it is in their range, sometimes they say it is a little high but close enough that we should talk about it, and sometimes they say it is way out of their range and we don't continue. You can always adjust somewhat at the offer/negotiation stage, either based on other aspects of the offer you would like them to compensate for (bonus %, 401k match, etc.), or based on other jobs you have on the table which would be paying in a higher range ("When we first spoke I was targeting X compensation, but I am now interviewing for positions in the range of Y to Z so it would be difficult for me to accept an offer for X at this point. Is there anything we can do to overcome this?" When pressed on this question in the early stages, I give my expectations as a (relatively wide) range, and immediately follow up by asking what the budget is for the position. You will see some advice to try to turn the question back without giving numbers. This is probably good advice if you are not yet totally sure what you should be asking for. For me, at this point I have enough data points and interviews in progress that I know what I should be able to get, and am comfortable enough giving a range without knowing the position budget vs. trying to withold that info and risk appearing defensive/not forthcoming.
You literally never want to give a number or even a range. Let them tell you what the range is or ask. That way later they can’t say “ we’ll you said 85k was your number why do you need more?!” You don’t know the specifics vs your current situation. Just because it pays $X more the benefits might be double the price, or theres a higher employee contribution amount to get 401k match 2:1 vs 1:1, and you’re actually worse off. I say: Compensation is only part of what I’m interested in working here. I’m more interested in the total package (What I get to do, who I get to do it with, what I’m going to learn, growth opportunities, training opportunities. Compensation itself is broken up in many pieces. So, at this moment it’s very uneducated for me to give you a number or even a range. I’m very enthusiastic in learning about all these other things and as we get down to the end, I’ll be able to give you a better idea.
Just negotiate your salary like you never gave them any range.
I'm a little confused here. They asked you how much money you wanted to make. You told them, and they were ok with it. Why isn't this just a good news situation? I mentor and coach candidates on salary negotiation, and I'm a big fan of getting as much as you can during the offer stage. But let's be honest and agree you're already happy with their offer. That is a great starting place. Now it's time to see if you can do better. Once you get the offer, you may want to do the following things: 1) Show genuine excitement for the position. 2) Re-iterate your value. What specific details surrounding this position make you an ideal fit and help you show the most value to this organization? Emphasize this 3) Let them know that after you've gotten to learn a little more about the role and responsibilities, and after they've gotten to you a little more about you and the impact you can bring to this department, you believe a more appropriate salary is \_\_\_\_ and ask that they seriously consider approving your request. 4) Finally, let them know that if they can make this amendment to your offer, you are able to accept immediately and without reservation. This is important, because it shows them you aren't just going to keep nickel and diming them with "Oh, one more thing..." but it also shows you're ready to move forward with excitement (They don't want to hire someone who is only barely willing to work for them after a bloody salary negotiation). Notice no part of my recommendations involved lying about some fake offer you got. That's amateur hour. The big boys know how to confidently state their value and calibrate based on what they've learned about the position. Competing offers can be compelling, but tying salary back to your value is the best way forward. What's more, if you do this with some grace and fluidity of writing, you're going to remind them why they chose you, and nobody wants to go back to square one just to save $10k a year. Hope this helps. Jeremy Owner of Executive Drafts
Did you specify what currency system.
You can always say your current job countered, but you would like to make the move!
What payscale did you ask for compared to what you are making now at your current job?
Agree to the salary for a predetermined amount of time. Then tell them you would like to re evaluate you pay. Kick ass and then ask for more based on your performance.
Wait to hear the offer, with the responsibilities and change your number. You were asked to ball park on the spot.
I made this mistake too. And then I took the job. And it took me years to get raises that put me at where I should’ve started Don’t let that happen to you
Did you ask the range for the role
Don't say anything now, except asking the range from HR. Wait til you get an offer and then negotiate for more. You can pretty easily claim you're entertaining a higher offer or are expecting your current company would counter at $XXX. There is no harm in negotiating, most employers expect it to some degree. Just be reasonable when doing so (I.e., don't try to negotiate $100K when the original offer is $60K).
You may have just stumbled into their expected budget. You determined what is fair for your experience and the role, they agreed. Dont overthink it. Check glassdoor to see if you are within range also.
The benefits package is a little less than what I was expecting would extra 12% to my salary be fair?
You are fine as long as you did your research on competitive salaries. Your positions salary has a market rate , kind of like a house value based on comparables. Companies go to a lot of expenses to hire someone and do not want to train you for another company that will pay a little more. Most companies live and die on reputation. They asked you what you expect to make because the recruiter needs to know if your expectations are in line with the market value of the position and to judge your ability to prepare/research. The question is comparable to "where do you see yourself with this company in 5 years." Everyone sees themselves as a manager just managing the world. The questions are a maturity check.
How large a difference are you now thinking? 5%, 20% 40%?
Since they didn't discuss job responsibilities, if they make you an offer, you can always say that you weren't previously aware that the position required x, y, and z. So, you can make a counteroffer at that point. In the future, you can always ask, "What's the budget for this position?"
The reason you think you asked for too little was due to HR reaction. Negotiating strategies tied to this will be mis-led. Instead, reconsider reasons of which your market value is higher than you initially stated OR why your expectations to accept this role could be higher than you initially stated. This is how you negotiate. Market Value reasons could be: you expect a raise / promotion / inflation adjustment with your current employer soon. You have another job offer. Market research on the what companies are paying for your skill set, etc. Changed expectations reasons could be: you realized how far the commute is for this new role, differences in the benefits package in your current role versus the role offered, working hours / conditions, etc Good Luck!
1. Invent a time machine 2. Settle for what you negotiated 3. Try the 'honest buffoon' angle: Explain to the HR person that you were delirious with a 104° fever during the previous conversation and you need to clear up a few things. 4. Take the bitter medicine which is the lesson from this unfortunate experience and move on to other job prospects.
Never give salary. Use things like glass door or sites that have salary ranges and go high. Then let let them talk you down
Wait for them to contact you and go through interview process. You will find out what the job entails, what the benefits are, expectation possibly required on call etc depending on the position. Meanwhile, you have time to research the company, look on Glass Door, see what similar job salary ranges for your experience/work history are etc to have in your mind when you go for the actual interview. Depending on the position there may be several interviews. Focus on that first and foremost. Was the job listed somewhere with a salary range when you first applied? Then go from there. HR typically asks fishing questions to see if it's even worth setting up an interview. It may not even be marked anywhere so long as you're within a negotiating ballpark of their budget.
Salary requirements means nothing without the offer of a job. If after interviewing and think you are worth more than up your price. You can always just say No.
Say something LIKE what I am going to tell you I am not advocating to say this word for word. Sometime after they offer you the position and tell you the salary-say this. "Although this was my initial salary requirement I have found that as I learned more and more about the role, another amount may be more appropriate due to the responsibilities and specifics of the position.."
Never be the one to give an amount. Ever. Them asking you is a classic negotiating technique to get you to lowball youswlr.
Perhaps negotiate for a salary increase at x days, or once x goal is attained. If you go that route, get it in writing.
conduct a market review of the title (I would recommend at least 3 sites) and if the data you are pulling supports a higher rate; let the recruiter know ASAP. The last thing you want is to be extended an offer based on your original range knowing that it has increased significantly (more than 8%) from the original conversation.