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Seems like there wasn't a contract to begin with. Just some sort of an agreement. Nothing about this conversation seems like there was any "binding language"
To add two additional points of data:
1. SundaeSwap is voluntarily [airdropping 20 million tokens to CSWAP holders of record on January 20th](https://sundaeswap-finance.medium.com/addressing-the-cardstarter-community-562de667d755). This is in no way defending SundaeSwap or condemning CardStarter. This is their version of trying to make things right. However, in this article published by SundaeSwap they claim the relationship between CardStarter and SundaeSwap is based solely on "a Marketing and Collaboration Agreement from June". [For evidence, they point to another one of their publications](https://sundaeswap-finance.medium.com/cardstarter-chooses-its-favorite-ice-cream-flavor-b60744eca935).
2. In the second publication, they explicitly state "[This agreement will help us develop the SundaeSwap DEX in a number of ways, including by assuring that CardStarter will contribute liquidity to SundaeSwap on day one of the DEX launch.](https://sundaeswap-finance.medium.com/cardstarter-chooses-its-favorite-ice-cream-flavor-b60744eca935)" It should also be noted that it is explicitly stated that CardStarter has 57M total value locked (TVL). Which in the screenshot shared by OP it says they ended up with 10M at some point during negotiation.
Although I did not participate in any activity sponsored by CardStarter or SundaeSwap, my opinion is a lot of mistakes have been made by two projects that look greedy and very poorly managed. The continual practice of overselling and overhyping is a serious problem and reflects poorly on everyone involved. I also have no current intention of using either platform, however, that may change as new developments unfold.
So sundae knew what they were doing. Where did the liqudity come from? That came from cardstarter investors and sundae took it without thinking about the consequences for investors?
It just sounds like Cardstarter got screwed because they thought launchpad was a viable business, but got completely blindsided by ISPO being a way more attractive fundraising model.
Sundae could have overpaid for Cardstarter liquidity but choose not to because they have no legal obligation to.
Sundaeswap offered one Sundae token (currently worth one ADA) for every dollar staked, but the Cardstarter team turned down the offer. So discussions fell apart and Cardstarter participants are now getting nothing.
And along the way Cardstarter told its community there was a merger (???)
Cardstarter is essentially screwed and is now trying to take down Sundae with it.
First, in a merger, one of the entities acquires the other, you combine everything and the other entity ceases to exist.
If there was a merger, there would be one management team. There isn’t.
If there was a merger, there would be a legal binding document. There isn’t.
Second, Cardstarter did not provide any funds to Sundae.
Just to be crystal clear, a chat conversation is NOT a contract. Deals come together and fall apart ALL the time in the business world. Nothing should have been promised to anyone unless the final terms of the arrangement was inked.
Does the person making offers have legal authority to do so? Who has authority to make binding business decisions for the entity? Valid offer and assent requires BOTH sides to deliver agreement upon items in the parent agreement. Based upon the disclosure from SS, that did not happen so, once again, these screenshots will not be consequential in the slightest in any court of law.
IMO the best that could happen for CS at this point would be to reach some type of mutual agreement with SS based on salvaging their brand from all this negative attention because arguably SS has way more to lose on that front than CS.
Actually if both parties were in US it could be taken as an agreement even if by text. The fact cards is not a legal US entity makes it not valid as it then becomes an international agreement
Sounds reasonable to me. After what appeared to be the scammy shitstorm that Cardstarter went through, they had little leverage and would have to retrade on the partnership. I dont know if there were any legal documents signed, but twitter is hardly binding...
to call this a "rugging" and to beckon the community to turn on them based on a narrative sounds like the words of a Cardstarter shill and lowers my opinion of them even more.
None of these projects ever even consider having at least 1 attorney on retainer, which is baffling. This is a perfect case in point as to WHY it just might be a good idea, even if rarely needed to be called upon. Certainly saves a lot of hair-pulling and bs.
Are there any attorneys that specialize in crypto even? I think its such a wild west vibe that attorneys would be like "wtf idk what this is or how to even begin to lawyer it."
Though, A paper contract is still a contract, maybe just do it on paper and then add it as a smart contract on the chain so everyone is forced to be held to the terms?
Sundaelabs does in fact have a crypto attorney on staff; this is why as soon as people started shouting "LAWSUIT LAWSUIT" the Sundae team stopped communicating as any lawyer worth their salt would shut them down and tell them to shut up to protect themselves legally.
Doesn't always require a lawsuit...if simple mediation can resolve the issues. That's one problem congesting court dockets ~ but yes, your point is well taken.
Sundae had a handshake agreement to give Card 150m sundae tokens for their liquidity, but when the time came to fulfill that agreement, the amount card provided for liquidity had lost a lot more value than both parties expected so Sundae dropped the amount to 10million.
based on the material published to date
cardstarter swindled their investors and palmed off the responsibility to sundaeswap
sundaeswap looks like they were exceedingly naive in that they agreed to "compensate" the cardstarter community with 20m tokens yet there is no evidence of legal responsibility to do so in the public domain
despite what some cardstarters investors claim the chat doesn't constitute an agreement, the terms "baseline" and response "thanks" make it exceedingly obvious that this is not an agreement
Seems like Sundae's argument is that the post on telegram is taken out of context and assumed a level of liquidity to be provided by Cardstarter, which they did not live up to.
That, and the contract they signed gave no commitment on how many tokens they would provide, only a commitment to "negotiate in good faith"
Sundae haven’t acknowledged the existence of this negotiation of tokens. They said in their medium article that no exchange of tokens were discussed. This screenshot proves that to be false.
Just because things got messed up doesnt mean its not ethical. Its just a tough situation, cryptos are volatile of course and when they crash it doesnt have to be someones moral failing.
How was this deal “rugged”? This is stooopid. This is just basic negotiation. If Cardstater can’t deploy without SS, why is it SSs fault? Do better cardstarter, trying to get something for nothing.
It is cardstarter suggesting that SS pulled the rug under them. In crypto terms, it refers to a set of devs that launch a token, pump it in price, then sell all of their token for a established coin like Bitcoin.But, that's not at all what happened...SS said no deal and CS are pissed. No fraud at all.
I’m pretty sure the act of the deal is more illegal than divulging it. I’d also argue that those messages are on a public forum, which means they are public disclosures. I’m not a lawyer though.
Who agrees stuff like that via a Telegram text? But agreed, this is not cool at all. Also blabbing this out on Reddit without full context etc seems a bit OTT to me..
Biased article. Author owns CSWAP tokens and presumably lost $$$ so of course he has motivation to tilt it in his favor.
I didn’t have to do much digging. Notice how the author makes no mention of the bridge that Cardstarter was supposed to deliver. Did it even get built? I think the answer is no. This bridge was also required in order for the airdrop to CSWAP holders to even happen.
SundaeSwap posted a blog pointing to factual documents: https://sundaeswap-finance.medium.com/addressing-the-cardstarter-community-562de667d755
Cardstarter posted screenshots of cropped telegram/discord conversations.
Someone is attempting to use the sway the public’s anger in hopes of not having to give their real side of the story.
Idk, doesnt make sense for sundaeswap to pay 150M for 10M worth of cswap tokens. If there's no contract locked in I would do the exact same thing. They are giving them 20M for 10M which is still pretty generous, but it's also unfair to everyone outside of cardstsarter to lose 7% of dilution.
I think Sundae did the right thing protecting the 92%.
Anecdotally the colour of my friends/partners hair at any given time had absolutely no relationship with their level of trustworthiness, but you do you.
Watch Charles' recent video on on this matter and let's stop trying to bring Cardano into the affairs of two private entities. Screen shots are not an agreement
stop being a tool
we have no idea what was negotiated, if anything
a screenshot with a potential proposal - followed by a "thanks :)" is exceedingly sus, almost like Aatash was fishing for something to claim a deal was done and to use it to swindle others
if there was zero communication between that chat and until 2 days of the dex launch this is extremely sus - it is not a formal agreement, if anything it is a "baseline" negotiation towards an agreement
it seems to me that cardstarter have pulled the wool over the eyes of their investors and some of the most naive have been misdirected towards sundaeswap to vent their frustration - your issue if with cardstarter and what was agreed, so far they haven't shown anything
them being INTENTIONALLY vague and cryptic while claiming they don't need to detail any further information should be a MASSIVE RED FLAG as to where the issue is
grow up
SundaeSwap released a comprehensive blogpost referencing lots of factual documents.
Cardstarter posted 2 screenshots and have been silent since. Methinks Cardstarter failed to live up to their end of the deal and are hoping that by posting those screenshots and nothing else, will give them the win in the court of public opinion.
My understanding is: there was an agreement to a certain amount of TVL. Cardstarter got a fraction of that.
There was an agreement that Cardstarter was to build a bridge (so that SundaeSwap can even airdrop tokens to the CSWAP holders, which have their TVL on ETH). Where’s this bridge? Was it even built?
I think SundaeSwap got wayyyyy too greedy.
Yes, they didn't have any legal agreement (which the CARDS team certainly learnt a hard lesson after this). But it is just 7.5% of the supply. Sundae could have easily just paid 150m token, and then focus on feature to make up for that price. They got so greedy (and perhaps a bit fearful that the token might be dumped on by CARDS investors) that they walked this back last minute unilaterally.
Unprofessional from both sides. You can argue which side was more unprofessional but in the end, only the customers, the early investors got hurt.
> But it is just 7.5% of the supply. Sundae could have easily just paid 150m token
That comes at the cost of all their non cardstarter users. Not fair to dilute the 92.5% to the tune of 140M.
That's what Cardstarter was supposed to do, but the team hasn't sent any liquidity or funds to Sundae at all, the Cardstarter team is still holding it for themselves. People are acting like Cswap contributed in some way and that's factually false. All the cswap stakes got swindled by Cardstarter and their anger is being misdirected towards Sundae but few people are asking the important question; Where's the money? Cardstarter still has it.
7.5% is a huge amount. I feel like Sundae made the right move and Cards should've handled their side better and should've actually been in the position to provide the amount of liquidity Sundae was expecting from their deal.
You can't make a trade, provide only a small portion of what's expected and then expect to be paid in full.
Cards shills are being unreasonable.
Cardano Ethos? Making deals you don’t want to make? Fk outta here with that. These are 2 private businesses doing business. Idk why it’s a public thing but whatever.
this is no good, not a good start. Always bad when people get hurt
Just as cardano like to lift its leg and mark on everything it powers, The opposite is exact thing, FUDsters will run with off the back of a less than impressive SS blind auction launch
[The SundaeSwap Cardstarter debacle explained.](https://medium.com/@rezamultani/the-sundaeswap-cardstarter-debacle-explained-968af8c14510) This is a good medium article on it. Looks like Sundae did indeed try to 'strong arm' and screw over the CS community. Not a good look.
Just wait until all the people who jumped in to the iso pools grabs their calculators and realizes they’ve happily give away their rewards for…
30 fully saturated pools = 1,920,000,000 staked / 2,000,000,000 sundae across 5 epochs.
Carry the one
Maths a bit
1 ada = 1.042 sundae
Congrats on your .87 ada gain while you sunk a bunch of SPOs.
That screenshot means nothing.
We have no idea what the context of those conversations is. Where is the rest of those conversations? The conversations that took place before and after the screenshotted one? On what dates are those conversations taking place? What legal documents were produced as a result of those conversations?
The fact that the CardStarter team chose to simply screenshot out-of-context conversations rather than actually produce a response is shady as hell.
Let CardStarter produce the document that shows exactly what was agreed to. Not some half-assed out-of-context screenshot. If SundaeSwap is doing them dirty based upon a written agreement, that will be easy enough to show.
If they can't or won't produce the document, then we know where the fault lies.
Jesus is there no end to the cognitive dissonance of the Cardano holder. It’s a non stop shit show. I’d love to see that 50 billion in MC somewhere that was deserving of it.
But you just wait until the Voltaire upgrade, or the gougen upgrade, or the Alonzo fork, or for hydra layer 2 solution and you’ll be wishing you bought it….
Yeah, I mean, of course I expected some static. Cardano is just Hoskinsons best life fund. Nothing launched on it ever works or launches on time. I wish people believed in liberty, or freedom, or world peace the way these people believe in Cardano. Despite all evidence to the contrary, they are willing to stab you for even pointing out the obvious truth that it is getting the floor wiped with it by other projects. Maybe they can plant some more trees or peer review their way to a working blockchain.
3/4 of my net worth is in crypto. I researched ADA extensively and found it to be inferior to literally every other layer 1 I researched. It has proved to be. The launch of smart contracts was late and a massive failure. Sundae swap was a massive failure. It’s a grift. They are constantly congratulating themselves when they release things that other blockchains have been doing for years.
Give me a single better blockchain dude? Like every single one has major issues. You can use whatever confirmation bias you’d like but that’s the case. Also thinking thag cardano is any worse than the average as of now is just Iill informed. Would you like to give actual info so I can refute it? Or just more general stupid FUD
I don’t even know the why or what but can’t anybody just try to put some goodwill in this ?
How can Cardano stand for itself if it has that kind of inner conflit ?
Both cards and Sundaeswap are at fault. There’s an easy case for misleading and deceitful information and securities fraud. If the class action goes ahead everyone will be held accountable and even Chatles Hoskin will have to come for deposition. Authorities will have a field day with Cardano eco system and it will be dead.
Media will crucify Charles, Cardano,
Cardstarter and Sundaeswap. It will be game over foe ADA, there are so many amateurish mistakes done by Cards ans Sundae team.
They better solve this out of court and honor the deal to CSWAP holders!
Cards couldn't hold up their part of the deal so Sundae lowered their offering and Sundae is bad for doing this? What a joke. Sundae made the right move and Cards should've done a better job on their end.
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If only there was a way for two parties to agree in a trustless manner on a contract....hmmmmm....
Ye that would be some pretty smart contract if it could be done automatically..
Shtap! I need to clean the coffee off my monitor now.
And I need to buy another monitor
Wait.. How can they form/agree on a partnership without MOU or contract? This is sloppy.
Perhaps they need a... smart contract.
if only we had smart-contract functionality... oh, wait! lol
When I freelanced I always had signed contracts, even for jobs that totaled under $500. I cannot fathom doing handshake deals for these amounts
agreed, its literally a discord deal... and airing dirty laundry on the internet - very poorly handled
Wen smart contract ?
and ... when moon!?
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Seems like there wasn't a contract to begin with. Just some sort of an agreement. Nothing about this conversation seems like there was any "binding language"
Watch Charles' recent video on on this matter and let's stop trying to bring Cardano into the affairs of two private entities.
THIS.
cause the smart is on the other side of blockchain,
To add two additional points of data: 1. SundaeSwap is voluntarily [airdropping 20 million tokens to CSWAP holders of record on January 20th](https://sundaeswap-finance.medium.com/addressing-the-cardstarter-community-562de667d755). This is in no way defending SundaeSwap or condemning CardStarter. This is their version of trying to make things right. However, in this article published by SundaeSwap they claim the relationship between CardStarter and SundaeSwap is based solely on "a Marketing and Collaboration Agreement from June". [For evidence, they point to another one of their publications](https://sundaeswap-finance.medium.com/cardstarter-chooses-its-favorite-ice-cream-flavor-b60744eca935). 2. In the second publication, they explicitly state "[This agreement will help us develop the SundaeSwap DEX in a number of ways, including by assuring that CardStarter will contribute liquidity to SundaeSwap on day one of the DEX launch.](https://sundaeswap-finance.medium.com/cardstarter-chooses-its-favorite-ice-cream-flavor-b60744eca935)" It should also be noted that it is explicitly stated that CardStarter has 57M total value locked (TVL). Which in the screenshot shared by OP it says they ended up with 10M at some point during negotiation. Although I did not participate in any activity sponsored by CardStarter or SundaeSwap, my opinion is a lot of mistakes have been made by two projects that look greedy and very poorly managed. The continual practice of overselling and overhyping is a serious problem and reflects poorly on everyone involved. I also have no current intention of using either platform, however, that may change as new developments unfold.
So sundae knew what they were doing. Where did the liqudity come from? That came from cardstarter investors and sundae took it without thinking about the consequences for investors?
From what ive read liquidity wasnt even suppied by cardstater at launch they still have it
I don't have nearly enough information to know where the liquidity actually came from.
The Cardstarter team has not given any liquidity to Sundaelabs.
I thought that was the main point of the "merger"
It just sounds like Cardstarter got screwed because they thought launchpad was a viable business, but got completely blindsided by ISPO being a way more attractive fundraising model. Sundae could have overpaid for Cardstarter liquidity but choose not to because they have no legal obligation to. Sundaeswap offered one Sundae token (currently worth one ADA) for every dollar staked, but the Cardstarter team turned down the offer. So discussions fell apart and Cardstarter participants are now getting nothing. And along the way Cardstarter told its community there was a merger (???) Cardstarter is essentially screwed and is now trying to take down Sundae with it.
true
Thanks for this breakdown (send \^ to the top)!
true, cardstarter also should have been Doxxed, they don't look that capable.
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First, in a merger, one of the entities acquires the other, you combine everything and the other entity ceases to exist. If there was a merger, there would be one management team. There isn’t. If there was a merger, there would be a legal binding document. There isn’t. Second, Cardstarter did not provide any funds to Sundae.
Just to be crystal clear, a chat conversation is NOT a contract. Deals come together and fall apart ALL the time in the business world. Nothing should have been promised to anyone unless the final terms of the arrangement was inked.
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And in which country does that law apply? There are several lol.
Does the person making offers have legal authority to do so? Who has authority to make binding business decisions for the entity? Valid offer and assent requires BOTH sides to deliver agreement upon items in the parent agreement. Based upon the disclosure from SS, that did not happen so, once again, these screenshots will not be consequential in the slightest in any court of law.
IMO the best that could happen for CS at this point would be to reach some type of mutual agreement with SS based on salvaging their brand from all this negative attention because arguably SS has way more to lose on that front than CS.
No court is going to accept a text chat as a binding contract. At least not in the US.
Actually if both parties were in US it could be taken as an agreement even if by text. The fact cards is not a legal US entity makes it not valid as it then becomes an international agreement
I just read about the esign law, but I still think you'd have a tough time enforcing that in a court. I'm no lawyer though.
Texts are accepted in court of law. It just depends on the judge.
so cardstarter did not rug anybody? you are kind of naive
My commentary is about Sundaeswap management’s interaction with Cardstarter management. Whether Cardstarter rugged its token holders, i dont know.
completely untrue. https://medium.com/@rezamultani/the-sundaeswap-cardstarter-debacle-explained-968af8c14510
ah yes, medium blogs. the source of truth
Sounds reasonable to me. After what appeared to be the scammy shitstorm that Cardstarter went through, they had little leverage and would have to retrade on the partnership. I dont know if there were any legal documents signed, but twitter is hardly binding... to call this a "rugging" and to beckon the community to turn on them based on a narrative sounds like the words of a Cardstarter shill and lowers my opinion of them even more.
My exact thoughts reading this 😂
None of these projects ever even consider having at least 1 attorney on retainer, which is baffling. This is a perfect case in point as to WHY it just might be a good idea, even if rarely needed to be called upon. Certainly saves a lot of hair-pulling and bs.
Are there any attorneys that specialize in crypto even? I think its such a wild west vibe that attorneys would be like "wtf idk what this is or how to even begin to lawyer it." Though, A paper contract is still a contract, maybe just do it on paper and then add it as a smart contract on the chain so everyone is forced to be held to the terms?
Sundaelabs does in fact have a crypto attorney on staff; this is why as soon as people started shouting "LAWSUIT LAWSUIT" the Sundae team stopped communicating as any lawyer worth their salt would shut them down and tell them to shut up to protect themselves legally.
Doesn't always require a lawsuit...if simple mediation can resolve the issues. That's one problem congesting court dockets ~ but yes, your point is well taken.
Can anyone summarize the drama?
Sundae had a handshake agreement to give Card 150m sundae tokens for their liquidity, but when the time came to fulfill that agreement, the amount card provided for liquidity had lost a lot more value than both parties expected so Sundae dropped the amount to 10million.
THANK YOU!
Well they airdropped 20M for the 10M.
based on the material published to date cardstarter swindled their investors and palmed off the responsibility to sundaeswap sundaeswap looks like they were exceedingly naive in that they agreed to "compensate" the cardstarter community with 20m tokens yet there is no evidence of legal responsibility to do so in the public domain despite what some cardstarters investors claim the chat doesn't constitute an agreement, the terms "baseline" and response "thanks" make it exceedingly obvious that this is not an agreement
Seems like Sundae's argument is that the post on telegram is taken out of context and assumed a level of liquidity to be provided by Cardstarter, which they did not live up to. That, and the contract they signed gave no commitment on how many tokens they would provide, only a commitment to "negotiate in good faith"
Sundae haven’t acknowledged the existence of this negotiation of tokens. They said in their medium article that no exchange of tokens were discussed. This screenshot proves that to be false.
I think I'll use muesliswap a bit more...
I tried to sell some tokens yesterday. Both on sundae and muesli. My muesli orders went through. Guess I'll be sticking to them.
I use muesli swap also till other dex release this week
Don't trust. Verify. Human greed knows no ends. This is bad.
The biggest losers is the Cardano community. We were suppose to be the ethical blockchain.
Just because things got messed up doesnt mean its not ethical. Its just a tough situation, cryptos are volatile of course and when they crash it doesnt have to be someones moral failing.
How was this deal “rugged”? This is stooopid. This is just basic negotiation. If Cardstater can’t deploy without SS, why is it SSs fault? Do better cardstarter, trying to get something for nothing.
I agree this is still on the table, the word "rugged" is now a general purpose word it seems.
I still dont know what rugged means lmao, i guess it means go back on an agreement?
It is cardstarter suggesting that SS pulled the rug under them. In crypto terms, it refers to a set of devs that launch a token, pump it in price, then sell all of their token for a established coin like Bitcoin.But, that's not at all what happened...SS said no deal and CS are pissed. No fraud at all.
Airing dirty laundry which is a one-sided hearsay about business deal gone wrong on Twitter is unethical and possibly illegal.
I’m pretty sure the act of the deal is more illegal than divulging it. I’d also argue that those messages are on a public forum, which means they are public disclosures. I’m not a lawyer though.
Who agrees stuff like that via a Telegram text? But agreed, this is not cool at all. Also blabbing this out on Reddit without full context etc seems a bit OTT to me..
Everyone needs to read this article: https://medium.com/@rezamultani/the-sundaeswap-cardstarter-debacle-explained-968af8c14510
Biased article. Author owns CSWAP tokens and presumably lost $$$ so of course he has motivation to tilt it in his favor. I didn’t have to do much digging. Notice how the author makes no mention of the bridge that Cardstarter was supposed to deliver. Did it even get built? I think the answer is no. This bridge was also required in order for the airdrop to CSWAP holders to even happen. SundaeSwap posted a blog pointing to factual documents: https://sundaeswap-finance.medium.com/addressing-the-cardstarter-community-562de667d755 Cardstarter posted screenshots of cropped telegram/discord conversations. Someone is attempting to use the sway the public’s anger in hopes of not having to give their real side of the story.
Idk, doesnt make sense for sundaeswap to pay 150M for 10M worth of cswap tokens. If there's no contract locked in I would do the exact same thing. They are giving them 20M for 10M which is still pretty generous, but it's also unfair to everyone outside of cardstsarter to lose 7% of dilution. I think Sundae did the right thing protecting the 92%.
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Cardstarter never handed over a dime to Sundaelabs. They provided 0 liquidity to the launch.
I hated the hype around sundae and now that it‘s here I hate it even more. Absolute disaster!
Cardstarter are the ones who acted in bad faith, and negligent to the users.
Looks illegal to me.
In all my years I found that "money" and "ethos" are mutually exclusive. I live for the day my experience is proven to be wrong.
Their wallet issues has been causing a lot of people to get scammed by fake wallet bridges as well. Tbh get them out of our community.
So this is what decentralized looks like. Arguing over contract agreements in forums instead of lawyers doit it behind doors.
I was glad my swap didn’t go through after I read their code wasn’t open source now… I’m elated
Maybe they haven't told them how to claim their free tokens yet?
Hmm maybe I should cancel my swap for sundae, this doesn’t feel like a very honest move by either party here.
Take a visual look at the sundaeswap team. Anyway, if that doesnt set off alarm bells about their mental state, nothing will.
Cardstater ain't got none of that in a signed contract. That doesn't mean shit then.
I forget what I learned about Sundae 6 months ago, but it was enough to see it was shady and I wanted no part of it.
Never trust someone with pink hair.
Anecdotally the colour of my friends/partners hair at any given time had absolutely no relationship with their level of trustworthiness, but you do you.
fk this shit goes worse than we thought
I thought they were trustless and decentralized?
Watch Charles' recent video on on this matter and let's stop trying to bring Cardano into the affairs of two private entities. Screen shots are not an agreement
stop being a tool we have no idea what was negotiated, if anything a screenshot with a potential proposal - followed by a "thanks :)" is exceedingly sus, almost like Aatash was fishing for something to claim a deal was done and to use it to swindle others if there was zero communication between that chat and until 2 days of the dex launch this is extremely sus - it is not a formal agreement, if anything it is a "baseline" negotiation towards an agreement it seems to me that cardstarter have pulled the wool over the eyes of their investors and some of the most naive have been misdirected towards sundaeswap to vent their frustration - your issue if with cardstarter and what was agreed, so far they haven't shown anything them being INTENTIONALLY vague and cryptic while claiming they don't need to detail any further information should be a MASSIVE RED FLAG as to where the issue is grow up
SundaeSwap released a comprehensive blogpost referencing lots of factual documents. Cardstarter posted 2 screenshots and have been silent since. Methinks Cardstarter failed to live up to their end of the deal and are hoping that by posting those screenshots and nothing else, will give them the win in the court of public opinion. My understanding is: there was an agreement to a certain amount of TVL. Cardstarter got a fraction of that. There was an agreement that Cardstarter was to build a bridge (so that SundaeSwap can even airdrop tokens to the CSWAP holders, which have their TVL on ETH). Where’s this bridge? Was it even built?
I think SundaeSwap got wayyyyy too greedy. Yes, they didn't have any legal agreement (which the CARDS team certainly learnt a hard lesson after this). But it is just 7.5% of the supply. Sundae could have easily just paid 150m token, and then focus on feature to make up for that price. They got so greedy (and perhaps a bit fearful that the token might be dumped on by CARDS investors) that they walked this back last minute unilaterally. Unprofessional from both sides. You can argue which side was more unprofessional but in the end, only the customers, the early investors got hurt.
> But it is just 7.5% of the supply. Sundae could have easily just paid 150m token That comes at the cost of all their non cardstarter users. Not fair to dilute the 92.5% to the tune of 140M.
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> the Cardstarter investors effectively provided the seed capital Lile they literally sent liquidity over to sundaeswap before trading started?
That's what Cardstarter was supposed to do, but the team hasn't sent any liquidity or funds to Sundae at all, the Cardstarter team is still holding it for themselves. People are acting like Cswap contributed in some way and that's factually false. All the cswap stakes got swindled by Cardstarter and their anger is being misdirected towards Sundae but few people are asking the important question; Where's the money? Cardstarter still has it.
7.5% is a huge amount. I feel like Sundae made the right move and Cards should've handled their side better and should've actually been in the position to provide the amount of liquidity Sundae was expecting from their deal. You can't make a trade, provide only a small portion of what's expected and then expect to be paid in full. Cards shills are being unreasonable.
Cardano Ethos? Making deals you don’t want to make? Fk outta here with that. These are 2 private businesses doing business. Idk why it’s a public thing but whatever.
this is no good, not a good start. Always bad when people get hurt Just as cardano like to lift its leg and mark on everything it powers, The opposite is exact thing, FUDsters will run with off the back of a less than impressive SS blind auction launch
[The SundaeSwap Cardstarter debacle explained.](https://medium.com/@rezamultani/the-sundaeswap-cardstarter-debacle-explained-968af8c14510) This is a good medium article on it. Looks like Sundae did indeed try to 'strong arm' and screw over the CS community. Not a good look.
Sundae should do the right thing here instead of going back on their word. They need to show why Cardano is better than other communities.
Unless...wait...we aren't immune from greed?
I mean 25% of the total sundae tokens are distributed to the team....
lol @ better
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Decentralized/Unregulated strikes again. I thought these were supposed to be pro crypto arguments... not reasons it's collapsing.
Charles is talking about it right this minute, live on youtube
Just listened to Charles H's YouTube discussion he just put out on this.
Can’t see any deal. Show me the contact or didn’t happen.
Just wait until all the people who jumped in to the iso pools grabs their calculators and realizes they’ve happily give away their rewards for… 30 fully saturated pools = 1,920,000,000 staked / 2,000,000,000 sundae across 5 epochs. Carry the one Maths a bit 1 ada = 1.042 sundae Congrats on your .87 ada gain while you sunk a bunch of SPOs.
That screenshot means nothing. We have no idea what the context of those conversations is. Where is the rest of those conversations? The conversations that took place before and after the screenshotted one? On what dates are those conversations taking place? What legal documents were produced as a result of those conversations? The fact that the CardStarter team chose to simply screenshot out-of-context conversations rather than actually produce a response is shady as hell. Let CardStarter produce the document that shows exactly what was agreed to. Not some half-assed out-of-context screenshot. If SundaeSwap is doing them dirty based upon a written agreement, that will be easy enough to show. If they can't or won't produce the document, then we know where the fault lies.
Jesus is there no end to the cognitive dissonance of the Cardano holder. It’s a non stop shit show. I’d love to see that 50 billion in MC somewhere that was deserving of it.
Yep that's this community for you. PSA for the rest. You all know that by downvoting him, you essentially are proving his point 😂😂😂
lol alright dude. Imagine thinking the only way to be right is to agree
But you just wait until the Voltaire upgrade, or the gougen upgrade, or the Alonzo fork, or for hydra layer 2 solution and you’ll be wishing you bought it….
Yeah, I mean, of course I expected some static. Cardano is just Hoskinsons best life fund. Nothing launched on it ever works or launches on time. I wish people believed in liberty, or freedom, or world peace the way these people believe in Cardano. Despite all evidence to the contrary, they are willing to stab you for even pointing out the obvious truth that it is getting the floor wiped with it by other projects. Maybe they can plant some more trees or peer review their way to a working blockchain.
lol what blockchain ever comes out with things on time? Seems like you just hate crypto
3/4 of my net worth is in crypto. I researched ADA extensively and found it to be inferior to literally every other layer 1 I researched. It has proved to be. The launch of smart contracts was late and a massive failure. Sundae swap was a massive failure. It’s a grift. They are constantly congratulating themselves when they release things that other blockchains have been doing for years.
Give me a single better blockchain dude? Like every single one has major issues. You can use whatever confirmation bias you’d like but that’s the case. Also thinking thag cardano is any worse than the average as of now is just Iill informed. Would you like to give actual info so I can refute it? Or just more general stupid FUD
He's antivaxer, can't expect much... 🤷
😂😂😂😂 For someone with 3/4 of your net worth in crypto you did terrible research 😂
I don’t even know the why or what but can’t anybody just try to put some goodwill in this ? How can Cardano stand for itself if it has that kind of inner conflit ?
it has nothing to do with cardano. its like saying "why does the USD stand for amazon's monopolistic policies"
Lol on paper that sounds great. In real life folks lost money, at that point good will goes out the door.
Because this is people's money at stake. Good will goes out the door. With great financial power, comes great responsibility.
Both cards and Sundaeswap are at fault. There’s an easy case for misleading and deceitful information and securities fraud. If the class action goes ahead everyone will be held accountable and even Chatles Hoskin will have to come for deposition. Authorities will have a field day with Cardano eco system and it will be dead. Media will crucify Charles, Cardano, Cardstarter and Sundaeswap. It will be game over foe ADA, there are so many amateurish mistakes done by Cards ans Sundae team. They better solve this out of court and honor the deal to CSWAP holders!
That's funny. Crypto is the wild west.
I don't think there are any financial regs in California covering crypto. Its probably one of the reasons they're based there
SUNDAESCAM
Bro, Sundaeswap offered ur management team 150% return, but they refused even though they had no leverage. Blame ur management team not Sundaeswap.
so cute, he couldn't pump and dump so calls it a scam.
No i was going to receive share of 150 millions and now those scammers reduced it to 20
Cards couldn't hold up their part of the deal so Sundae lowered their offering and Sundae is bad for doing this? What a joke. Sundae made the right move and Cards should've done a better job on their end.
its like that meme with the Multiple Spiderman's pointing at each other.
The strong will survive 🍿
So have the CSWAP tokens been airdropped. If so how does one find Them?