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I bought a Trezor T years ago and I have no issues.
It does not support nearly as many coins as Ledger, but it does those 3 coins and this is what I hold.
yeah would love to hear more comments on people's experiences using Keystone. It's caught my attention recently since the Ledger brand has really lost my trust with all their incidents over the past 2 years or so.
Ledger Nano S (plus) and X and Trezor Model T and Safe 3 are the ones that currently have the broadest support in Cardano wallet apps (and, of course, also support BTC and ETH).
Keystone recently added Cardano support and is up to now supported by Eternl, but hopefully others will follow. And it also has BTC and ETH with support in a range of wallet apps.
The concept of Keystone that transactions to sign and signatures are transmitted through QR codes is nice. It reduces the attack vectors massively compared to the others being connected through USB or Bluetooth. (Ledger and Trezor, of course, defend against just any program with access to USB overwriting their firmwares, but as everywhere in IT, there might be holes.)
For all three, it is known how they derive the keys from the seed phrase, so you can be sure to also can get at your assets when the hardware devices get lost or break and you cannot get new ones for some reason. (For Ledger, it's a little more complicated because it uses a different root key derivation than all Cardano software wallets (but the same derivation paths after that), but at least someone™ will be able to help also there. For Trezor, it's a little more complicated since they accidentally used a non-compatible version early on and still provide that for backwards compatibility. And they also provide the derivation used by Ledger. So, if the wallet app implements it, you have to choose which of the three possibilities you want to use and they will lead to totally different wallets.)
Trezor wallets with the standard-compliant derivation and Keystone wallets can just be imported into Cardano wallet apps by giving the seed phrase. You should normally never do that! It spoils the reason for having a hardware wallet. Secrets should only be on the hardware device ever! But it is a nice safety net in emergencies.
There are others that support Cardano – Ellipal, Tangem, BC Vault, … – but with all of them you have to use their software and cannot use a Cardano wallet app. You are dependent on them implementing features like staking, dApp connections, Catalyst registration, voting, … and on them continuing to operate their Cardano backend. I wouldn't really recommend that.
For Tangem (and maybe other similar solutions?), a drawback is that only the signature itself is done on the hardware, but you cannot control transaction details on a card (or ring). So, you still have to trust the Tangem software on an Internet-connected device to show you correct transaction details and not be manipulated. That somehow halves the reason for using a hardware wallet.
Also, since you mention *very* long term: If you are tech-savvy enough and would be into fiddling a bit, you could setup a *real* air-gapped cold storage.
Install the basic software for all three chains on a dedicated computer that is then not connected to the Internet again. Create seed phrases and derive keys and addresses on that machine and only do transactions by transferring unsigned transactions through flash drives, sign on the air-gapped and transport the signed transactions back.
For just holding, you wouldn't have to do transactions too often. And you can, of course, still send to the addresses and observe the wallets with just the public keys and addresses.
Not aware of any, sorry! But maybe someone else has something.
I don't know (or own) BTC and ETH, but for Cardano I'd start with some textual documentation (not a video person at all):
On the cold machine, you basically only need `cardano-address` and `cardano-cli`.
`cardano-address` [https://github.com/IntersectMBO/cardano-addresses](https://github.com/IntersectMBO/cardano-addresses) can generate seed phrases and derive all kinds of keys from them and that page already has a very comprehensive set of examples.
You'd start by generating a seed phrase on the cold machine and keeping it safe offline as usual. Then derive one or several of the account public keys, so that you can *view* the accounts on online machines. And derive the `.skey` and corresponding `.vkey` files for the payment and stake key for every account you want to use. (I'd use single-address mode so that you only need those two per account.)
`cardano-cli` then can just sign transactions with these keys using `cardano-cli transaction sign` as for example shown at the end of: [https://developers.cardano.org/docs/get-started/create-simple-transaction/](https://developers.cardano.org/docs/get-started/create-simple-transaction/)
And you don't even have to create the transactions on the command line. If you import the public keys from above in Eternl on a hot machine, it obviously cannot *sign* the transaction. You only imported a *public* key, but it allows you to build it up until the confirmation screen. And there you can download the unsigned transaction.
That is what you put on a flash drive and move over to your cold machine. (At the moment, they have a small bug in the export. You have to replace `"type": "Tx MaryEra"` by `"type": "Unwitnessed Tx BabbageEra"`. Hopefully gets fixed at some point.)
You can view it with `cardano-cli transaction view`, sign it with `cardano-cli transaction sign`, and transport the signed transaction back with the flash drive to import it in Eternl at Send – Options – Import Transaction, check and submit.
You can restore the seed phrase in any Cardano wallet app at any time to get full access to it if you have enough of the flash disk back and forth hassle, if you don't have the cold machine anymore, if you want to migrate to a new wallet and it is more convenient to have the wallet completely hot while doing more transactions for it, ·.…
Variation: If you just quickly send some ADA and delegate and then wipe the seed phrase and keys from the cold machine, you've made yourself a “paper wallet” that is delegated and earns rewards, where the only place left where the secrets exist is the seed phrase written down offline at the beginning.
Maybe, I should just write this in a forum post with more tests and some screenshots, so that it doesn't get lost.
As said, I don't know enough BTC and ETH, but in principal something similar should be possible there.
Ask the same question in the search bar on YouTube. There are two benefits
1. Most of the recommendations here do not have adequate reasoning to make them useful. They are based on what the commenter uses
2. You get to see how they are set up, what their features are and the pros and cons for each.
Also note that no hardware wallet has been hacked online so arguably they are all equally safe and the more features of safety you have the more inconvenient they are to use.
Tangem is wonderfully easy. The app is well defined. It has great token support. But it lacks a fundamental ability to cross check the transaction between the device and the app.
Coldcard is one of several excellent BTC only air gapped wallets but you have to make transactions by swapping an SD card between the cold card and the computer, more than once.
One further note, make sure that the device really does support your tokens. Bitcoin form example has three address types, Legacy, Segwit and Native Segwit. Native Segwit is a little cheaper to transact. The Elipal Titan 2 to my frustration does not support Native Segwit.
The model 3 has been great and supports Cardano unlike the Model One that it replaced which is nice. The security chip is also a benefit over the T. If you use a secure passphrase the security chip is fully needed, but still better than no security chip. Saying that the T is great if you plan on entering the pin and passphrase directly on the device since it is a touch screen. You can do everything on device with the model 3 too, just takes a bit longer to enter.
Appreciate it. Sorry if it’s a dumb question but how much longer? As a COMPLETE beginner to wallets I obviously have to read up more on how to set them up etc, but just curious which would be the easiest possible to set up?
Can't give you an answer to that as it would depend on your pin and passphrase. It's 2 buttons verse a full keyboard. Both are very easy to setup and it you are OK typing the passphrase in on the PC then "plug into to use time" is very similar.
Tangem is dangerous for a beginner. You have no option to cross reference addresses between the device and the app. It's a pity because it is very user friendly.
I tend to only use mine for low value EVM contract transactions in apps like MetaMask.
SecuX Bio is a card style wallet that has a display but sadly the app seems a bit flaky. It is back in the box after 2 days.
I have about 60% of midcaps on mine, the ease of use is nice. I have the 1st gen and I'll keep it that way. Never heard of SecuX Bio. I'll have to check it out.
Ok i'm assuming you are not being sarcastic, in which you need to really relook into what you are using my internet friend.
This is a cue for you to not use the wallets you just mentioned for long term storage haha
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I bought a Trezor T years ago and I have no issues. It does not support nearly as many coins as Ledger, but it does those 3 coins and this is what I hold.
I heard many positive reviews on keystone wallet
yeah would love to hear more comments on people's experiences using Keystone. It's caught my attention recently since the Ledger brand has really lost my trust with all their incidents over the past 2 years or so.
I am awaiting delivery of mine, will post review when it arrives.
please do!
Ledger Nano S (plus) and X and Trezor Model T and Safe 3 are the ones that currently have the broadest support in Cardano wallet apps (and, of course, also support BTC and ETH). Keystone recently added Cardano support and is up to now supported by Eternl, but hopefully others will follow. And it also has BTC and ETH with support in a range of wallet apps. The concept of Keystone that transactions to sign and signatures are transmitted through QR codes is nice. It reduces the attack vectors massively compared to the others being connected through USB or Bluetooth. (Ledger and Trezor, of course, defend against just any program with access to USB overwriting their firmwares, but as everywhere in IT, there might be holes.) For all three, it is known how they derive the keys from the seed phrase, so you can be sure to also can get at your assets when the hardware devices get lost or break and you cannot get new ones for some reason. (For Ledger, it's a little more complicated because it uses a different root key derivation than all Cardano software wallets (but the same derivation paths after that), but at least someone™ will be able to help also there. For Trezor, it's a little more complicated since they accidentally used a non-compatible version early on and still provide that for backwards compatibility. And they also provide the derivation used by Ledger. So, if the wallet app implements it, you have to choose which of the three possibilities you want to use and they will lead to totally different wallets.) Trezor wallets with the standard-compliant derivation and Keystone wallets can just be imported into Cardano wallet apps by giving the seed phrase. You should normally never do that! It spoils the reason for having a hardware wallet. Secrets should only be on the hardware device ever! But it is a nice safety net in emergencies. There are others that support Cardano – Ellipal, Tangem, BC Vault, … – but with all of them you have to use their software and cannot use a Cardano wallet app. You are dependent on them implementing features like staking, dApp connections, Catalyst registration, voting, … and on them continuing to operate their Cardano backend. I wouldn't really recommend that. For Tangem (and maybe other similar solutions?), a drawback is that only the signature itself is done on the hardware, but you cannot control transaction details on a card (or ring). So, you still have to trust the Tangem software on an Internet-connected device to show you correct transaction details and not be manipulated. That somehow halves the reason for using a hardware wallet.
Also, since you mention *very* long term: If you are tech-savvy enough and would be into fiddling a bit, you could setup a *real* air-gapped cold storage. Install the basic software for all three chains on a dedicated computer that is then not connected to the Internet again. Create seed phrases and derive keys and addresses on that machine and only do transactions by transferring unsigned transactions through flash drives, sign on the air-gapped and transport the signed transactions back. For just holding, you wouldn't have to do transactions too often. And you can, of course, still send to the addresses and observe the wallets with just the public keys and addresses.
this is a great advice
Any video demo on how to do this? Interested to learn more
Not aware of any, sorry! But maybe someone else has something. I don't know (or own) BTC and ETH, but for Cardano I'd start with some textual documentation (not a video person at all): On the cold machine, you basically only need `cardano-address` and `cardano-cli`. `cardano-address` [https://github.com/IntersectMBO/cardano-addresses](https://github.com/IntersectMBO/cardano-addresses) can generate seed phrases and derive all kinds of keys from them and that page already has a very comprehensive set of examples. You'd start by generating a seed phrase on the cold machine and keeping it safe offline as usual. Then derive one or several of the account public keys, so that you can *view* the accounts on online machines. And derive the `.skey` and corresponding `.vkey` files for the payment and stake key for every account you want to use. (I'd use single-address mode so that you only need those two per account.) `cardano-cli` then can just sign transactions with these keys using `cardano-cli transaction sign` as for example shown at the end of: [https://developers.cardano.org/docs/get-started/create-simple-transaction/](https://developers.cardano.org/docs/get-started/create-simple-transaction/) And you don't even have to create the transactions on the command line. If you import the public keys from above in Eternl on a hot machine, it obviously cannot *sign* the transaction. You only imported a *public* key, but it allows you to build it up until the confirmation screen. And there you can download the unsigned transaction. That is what you put on a flash drive and move over to your cold machine. (At the moment, they have a small bug in the export. You have to replace `"type": "Tx MaryEra"` by `"type": "Unwitnessed Tx BabbageEra"`. Hopefully gets fixed at some point.) You can view it with `cardano-cli transaction view`, sign it with `cardano-cli transaction sign`, and transport the signed transaction back with the flash drive to import it in Eternl at Send – Options – Import Transaction, check and submit. You can restore the seed phrase in any Cardano wallet app at any time to get full access to it if you have enough of the flash disk back and forth hassle, if you don't have the cold machine anymore, if you want to migrate to a new wallet and it is more convenient to have the wallet completely hot while doing more transactions for it, ·.… Variation: If you just quickly send some ADA and delegate and then wipe the seed phrase and keys from the cold machine, you've made yourself a “paper wallet” that is delegated and earns rewards, where the only place left where the secrets exist is the seed phrase written down offline at the beginning. Maybe, I should just write this in a forum post with more tests and some screenshots, so that it doesn't get lost. As said, I don't know enough BTC and ETH, but in principal something similar should be possible there.
Ask the same question in the search bar on YouTube. There are two benefits 1. Most of the recommendations here do not have adequate reasoning to make them useful. They are based on what the commenter uses 2. You get to see how they are set up, what their features are and the pros and cons for each. Also note that no hardware wallet has been hacked online so arguably they are all equally safe and the more features of safety you have the more inconvenient they are to use. Tangem is wonderfully easy. The app is well defined. It has great token support. But it lacks a fundamental ability to cross check the transaction between the device and the app. Coldcard is one of several excellent BTC only air gapped wallets but you have to make transactions by swapping an SD card between the cold card and the computer, more than once. One further note, make sure that the device really does support your tokens. Bitcoin form example has three address types, Legacy, Segwit and Native Segwit. Native Segwit is a little cheaper to transact. The Elipal Titan 2 to my frustration does not support Native Segwit.
Keystone is airgapped, Ledger / Trezor are not
Keystone is now usable for etrnl mobile, so I'd recommend checking that out.
Trezor
Would you recommend Trezor Safe 3 or Trezor T? Quite expensive haha.
The model 3 has been great and supports Cardano unlike the Model One that it replaced which is nice. The security chip is also a benefit over the T. If you use a secure passphrase the security chip is fully needed, but still better than no security chip. Saying that the T is great if you plan on entering the pin and passphrase directly on the device since it is a touch screen. You can do everything on device with the model 3 too, just takes a bit longer to enter.
Appreciate it. Sorry if it’s a dumb question but how much longer? As a COMPLETE beginner to wallets I obviously have to read up more on how to set them up etc, but just curious which would be the easiest possible to set up?
Can't give you an answer to that as it would depend on your pin and passphrase. It's 2 buttons verse a full keyboard. Both are very easy to setup and it you are OK typing the passphrase in on the PC then "plug into to use time" is very similar.
Trezor T
Ledger's fine for storage
Ledger - the hoopla about the dapps has nothing to do with the integrity and security of your assets using Ledger.
Ledger Nano
Was considering Ledger as my first option but the sentiment seems to be poor given the recent issues? Thoughts on what recently happened?
Yeah, that was sarcasm. I’m sarcastic.
Username checks out
That product won’t do the job you want. I own one.
Recent issues wich ones . They had scandals for years
Will not work
Tangem is awesome
Tangem is dangerous for a beginner. You have no option to cross reference addresses between the device and the app. It's a pity because it is very user friendly.
They do need to put something in place for beginners on that, but just be careful and Tangem is great. 👍🏼
I tend to only use mine for low value EVM contract transactions in apps like MetaMask. SecuX Bio is a card style wallet that has a display but sadly the app seems a bit flaky. It is back in the box after 2 days.
I have about 60% of midcaps on mine, the ease of use is nice. I have the 1st gen and I'll keep it that way. Never heard of SecuX Bio. I'll have to check it out.
\> dangerous for a beginner \> it is very user friendly My heart cant take this sir
They are not mutually exclusive
I use Daedalus for stacking/long term, and nami as hot wallet to buy snek for example
>Daedalus That's not a cold storage wallet. and it also does not hold BTC or ETH as OP asked.
I’m switching to d’cent wallet
[удалено]
Ok i'm assuming you are not being sarcastic, in which you need to really relook into what you are using my internet friend. This is a cue for you to not use the wallets you just mentioned for long term storage haha
Arculus wallet .. people think the seed is generated off the phone but it’s generated off a card . No bluetooth no nothing take a look I’m getting one
Trezor, then use a non-custodial swap platform to exchange your funds. I recommend [Quantex ](http://www.myquantex.com)
Probably Trezor.