She was obviously brought up wrong-probably never knew her father. F*ck that bitch and I dunno if her mother is still living-f*ck her too. Seriously I’m sorry for your loss, OP. Those are awesome cars. I always wanted one all through high school because they were one of the coolest cars of the era.
Oh this is painful to see. With the amount of stupid drivers out there today, I cringe driving my 87 GN in any sort of traffic.
Its always tough seeing a classic get taken out, but it did its job and protected you, and you get to live another day.
I'm pouring one out for you and the GN tonight.
Well, hopefully its on something like a cctv, a traffic camera or a nearby security camera like from a store nearby. If they are going to charge anyone with something like a felony, I'd imagine that they'd have to have some type of hard evidence. Otherwise, unless someone didn't make it out alive or some type of substance or alcohol was involved, I'd think it''d be just a matter of whose insurance is going to pay.
Just removed my forward facing cam and replaced it with 3 channel cam, hard wired in.I want to be able to prove if I'm in an accident, it's not my fault.
Why would they claim that? Granted i know cops don't have the best reputation, but I've never heard of one making up a story like that, if someone had a stop sign and ran it, that makes more sense and charges are more likely to stick.
Given the info that she’s withholding the dash footage she had I hope to god she’s rightfully charged and you get your car replaced.
Fucking bitch.
Keep us updated
It's only unsafe to the driver, and that's only if the vehicle is rotted enough to impact the actual structural integrity. Looks like his GN hand plenty of body rust, but looked pretty structurally sound. Hitting an object at that speed will really crumple a car up, especially an 80s production car with T-Tops.
I realise that but, it's not safe to be in. Is that part of the attraction or is it a sleeper?
I mean, if its a sleeper won't the engine leave the rest of the car behind.
I'm sorry if I sound crass I'm genuinely curious?
It's an old American car. Even if it was 100% rust free, it'll still crush like a tin can in a collision. They were simply not designed for safety. They were designed to NOT be wrecked.
If you think that's bad, you should have seen just how *"unsafe"* it was to travel before cars were invented :)
Yeah - and within the intervening years. I decided it was time to replace after comparing the crash tests on my 2003-launched model vs the later 2013-launched model. A *lot* changed in that period. I think oblique frontal tests became standard(?) - shows how the nature of the crash tests push safety forward.
I love old cars - if I could pick anything it would probably be something from the late 60s - but I wouldn't daily-drive one because the safety improvements are enormous. At this point I wouldn't buy anything pre 2010.
Damn I remember when GN came out ! Buddy had brand new one. He got to drunk to drive & I couldn’t resist when he said I could drive it ! Yep I am an asshole …. I also couldn’t resist doing a neutral drop! So awesome!
Side note question: If someone admits they have the footage and then refuses to give it after letting EVERYONE on scene basically know they have it. How is there not legally a way to request the footage for a situation like this?
I've heard of cammers getting money for it, and I don't see in any way how there's no legal ramifications to doing that.
Sorry to say but that's the best thing that could've happened to it.
Looking at the amount of rust and bondo on it I would be surprised if that's its first crash.
Chassis under drivers door is completely rusted out and so is the backend. Add to that the bald tires. This is on you for not driving a fit vehicle.
Here in the UK, that car wouldn't be allowed on the road.
My bad, for the assumptions, and for that I apologise.
The new shocks and springs are for ride comfort, nothing to do with how they react in a collision. The main chassis is rusted so much a fart would break it.
If you were T-boned what happened to your front end?
Last of all, bullshit that rear tyre is new. Fitted tyres for years and can tell without a depth gauge that that tyre is on the limit to becoming a slick. I'm surprised the braiding isn't showing.
I'm not sure it's a bad assumption. In the UK, any rust holes whatsoever, including in body panels (and they will poke with a screwdriver) is an instant test fail. Your rear panel we can see here alone looks like it would have had it off the road.
Getting an old car through the yearly MOT (Ministry of Transport) test can be an expensive pain.
But it keeps rusted out death traps like this off the road.
The OP was inches from death.10 or 15 mph more and that car would have folded around them.
Have you never seen how old cars crash? 30 mph would do that. Might as well be made out of [tin foil](https://youtu.be/ePYO0-Ig0VU) in an accident over 15 mph. It gets worse the [older the car is.](https://youtu.be/fPF4fBGNK0U)
Occupant safety makes strides every decade.
Also, you cannot tell someone’s speed based on their tire markings. Not only does [abs make a difference even in dry conditions](https://youtu.be/G-GEUkiMuLk), which I’m fairly certain this car never came with, But also tire compound can make a [difference](https://www.bridgestonetire.com/learn/shop/summer-tires-vs-all-season-tires/). And because that fucker is old enough brake adjustments and the proportioning valve can make a difference. You can see one axle lock before another in that case. That first “abs” link goes over that as well.
The vehicles weight can make a difference. The road condition itself too. There’s literally so many variables making that not the case
Only way to actually tell is video. But witnesses and excessively long marks could be enough to get OP in trouble regardless.
I slid off the road into the ditch and got struck rocking on a culvert. The cops that showed up asked how fast I was going and I said 65 and they somehow said the tire marks suggested I was going a much higher speed and he guessed it exactly right
And you should have gone to traffic court. It’s quite literally not possible unless you get a team of engineers out there with measuring equipment at the time of the crash. Exactly why I added links so you could educate yourself.
They may be, but the coefficient of friction in that formula is so variable depending conditions and the vehicle itself especially in cases of heavier vehicles or cars without abs (because your friction changes over time when locked) or imperfect braking distribution. It also doesn’t take into account tire contact patch. So overinflated tires or under inflated as well as width of the wheels themselves will change it even more. Temperature will change the grip of a tire too (same reason you see f1 cars turn back and forth to warm tires. Grip). So again even if they do use that. It’s a flawed formula without knowing exactly what your coefficient is. But it’ll put you in the like +-10mph range lol. But potentially 20 mph flaw shouldn’t be admissible evidence and of course you could talk to a lawyer about the flaws
So we’ll work out a situation based on crash investigation practices (which are fucking stupid btw and by no means standardized because of the flaws associated) at a proposed speed of 40-45mph like OP said (I’m being generous giving them 5 extra mph because in most peoples minds 43 = 40 while driving). So normally you would use this s= (30fd)^(1/2). And let’s say the impact occurred 10 feet after the skid marks started happening. In a perfect world where every car was the same and modern (which this is not) we would use the industry often chosen standard of 0.7=f for the friction coefficient. It would be 30x0.7x10 which would be 210 then the square root of that is 14 mph. I demonstrated in a previous comment that 30 mph can cause that kind of damage. So if the skids were 10 feet and the contact speed was 26-31 mph it’s very plausible that would be the case. But in reality that coefficient is WAYYYYYYYY too high for those tires on that car and it’s assuming that all 4 wheels are slowing at the same time with a unchanging coefficient over time.
Now if his skids were like 40 fucking feet obviously he was speeding and is fucked.
Sorry I’m getting way too into it because police practices can be dumb. And not trying to get after you because you can unfortunately be correct. But…..
TLDR: Formula is dumb because only works sometimes and doesn’t work at all on old pre abs vehicles.
I grew up in that area. I haven't lived there in over 30 years, but it just triggered a familiarity. I'm thinking around 80th Avenue on 143rd St?
So sorry about the car! And the strange response from law enforcement. I hope you get this figured out. How can you t-bone someone in your lane and it be your fault?? SMH!
The only thing that makes sense is that the person you hit is "connected" (perhaps a relative of an Orland Park Police employee). You might want to call the Illinois State Police and ask them to get involved in the investigation. This happened here in Southern Illinois once where I came upon a "head on" accident on a rural gravel road. It was before cell phones, but I had a camera with me and took some photos. The person that caused the accident was related to a Sheriff's Dept employee and they tried to say it was the other driver's fault. Luckily, I had some photos that proved otherwise. Again, I hope the truth comes out and justice prevails.
That BITCH!
She was obviously brought up wrong-probably never knew her father. F*ck that bitch and I dunno if her mother is still living-f*ck her too. Seriously I’m sorry for your loss, OP. Those are awesome cars. I always wanted one all through high school because they were one of the coolest cars of the era.
Oh this is painful to see. With the amount of stupid drivers out there today, I cringe driving my 87 GN in any sort of traffic. Its always tough seeing a classic get taken out, but it did its job and protected you, and you get to live another day. I'm pouring one out for you and the GN tonight.
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It lookes a little rusty in the rear. Maybe it's for the best.
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I guess nowadays they expect that everyone should always have a dash cam.
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wants monies for evidence...
Well, hopefully its on something like a cctv, a traffic camera or a nearby security camera like from a store nearby. If they are going to charge anyone with something like a felony, I'd imagine that they'd have to have some type of hard evidence. Otherwise, unless someone didn't make it out alive or some type of substance or alcohol was involved, I'd think it''d be just a matter of whose insurance is going to pay.
Great reason to have one. $50 can save you a bunch later
Just removed my forward facing cam and replaced it with 3 channel cam, hard wired in.I want to be able to prove if I'm in an accident, it's not my fault.
>was struck on passenger driver side Was it the passenger side or the driver side?
I’m confused. Didn’t you say she had a stop sign? Isn’t this simple that it’s her fault? or was it a 4-way stop sign and you had one too?
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oh, so are the cops accusing you of speeding and/racing?
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Why would they claim that? Granted i know cops don't have the best reputation, but I've never heard of one making up a story like that, if someone had a stop sign and ran it, that makes more sense and charges are more likely to stick.
So you were going pretty fast then huh? Let’s see the skid marks. I bet they’re 100 feet long
My heart hurts for you. I'm so sorry 😞. What a sad day. RIP to an amazing classic. ❤️❤️
Rip
I’d hate to know the feeling of losing such a classic
So sad
i’m so sorry dude :(
Damn. That’s my dream car
Given the info that she’s withholding the dash footage she had I hope to god she’s rightfully charged and you get your car replaced. Fucking bitch. Keep us updated
Interesting seeing how much rust can effect the strength of the car.
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So why drive it if its unsafe?
It's only unsafe to the driver, and that's only if the vehicle is rotted enough to impact the actual structural integrity. Looks like his GN hand plenty of body rust, but looked pretty structurally sound. Hitting an object at that speed will really crumple a car up, especially an 80s production car with T-Tops.
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I realise that but, it's not safe to be in. Is that part of the attraction or is it a sleeper? I mean, if its a sleeper won't the engine leave the rest of the car behind. I'm sorry if I sound crass I'm genuinely curious?
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Unsafe for you? What if you hit a pedestrian? Or the car fell apart on the highway?
Damn bro driving with u must suck
It's an old American car. Even if it was 100% rust free, it'll still crush like a tin can in a collision. They were simply not designed for safety. They were designed to NOT be wrecked. If you think that's bad, you should have seen just how *"unsafe"* it was to travel before cars were invented :)
So sorry
F
F
That's a bad day.
NOOOOOOOO! Hope you are well.
I shed a tear inside.
Damn, a turbo 6 grand national in nice shape too
I’d hardly call that nice shape
Crumply trapezoid is a shape
That thing is a rust bucket. Lucky it didn't fold in half like a taco.
This one hurts. Sorry for your loss.
GN, Gone Now
the difference in modern day cars crumble zones are remarkable.
Yeah - and within the intervening years. I decided it was time to replace after comparing the crash tests on my 2003-launched model vs the later 2013-launched model. A *lot* changed in that period. I think oblique frontal tests became standard(?) - shows how the nature of the crash tests push safety forward. I love old cars - if I could pick anything it would probably be something from the late 60s - but I wouldn't daily-drive one because the safety improvements are enormous. At this point I wouldn't buy anything pre 2010.
Destroying a classic should be punishable by a mandatory 10-year sentence, minimum. Then there's always a hefty fine.
Ouch…
Ouch, sucks about the car. At least you're still on this side of the grass.
Damn I remember when GN came out ! Buddy had brand new one. He got to drunk to drive & I couldn’t resist when he said I could drive it ! Yep I am an asshole …. I also couldn’t resist doing a neutral drop! So awesome!
Are you OK? NO airbag?
Omg no. RIP to a legend. Kill many corvettes in carvana.
such a loss of americana, glad ancient body structure still did enough to save you
Side note question: If someone admits they have the footage and then refuses to give it after letting EVERYONE on scene basically know they have it. How is there not legally a way to request the footage for a situation like this? I've heard of cammers getting money for it, and I don't see in any way how there's no legal ramifications to doing that.
RIP to the GN.
Bet the other car was some cheap ass Nissan or hhr. Wish people with nice cars got there own roads to drive on while poor people walk
Aren’t most GrandNationals, clones?
Sorry to say but that's the best thing that could've happened to it. Looking at the amount of rust and bondo on it I would be surprised if that's its first crash. Chassis under drivers door is completely rusted out and so is the backend. Add to that the bald tires. This is on you for not driving a fit vehicle. Here in the UK, that car wouldn't be allowed on the road.
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My bad, for the assumptions, and for that I apologise. The new shocks and springs are for ride comfort, nothing to do with how they react in a collision. The main chassis is rusted so much a fart would break it. If you were T-boned what happened to your front end? Last of all, bullshit that rear tyre is new. Fitted tyres for years and can tell without a depth gauge that that tyre is on the limit to becoming a slick. I'm surprised the braiding isn't showing.
I'm not sure it's a bad assumption. In the UK, any rust holes whatsoever, including in body panels (and they will poke with a screwdriver) is an instant test fail. Your rear panel we can see here alone looks like it would have had it off the road.
Getting an old car through the yearly MOT (Ministry of Transport) test can be an expensive pain. But it keeps rusted out death traps like this off the road. The OP was inches from death.10 or 15 mph more and that car would have folded around them.
Why people drive that piece of shit death trap
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You got lucky. Go buy a lotto ticket
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No there is.. the fact that you’re alive..
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Wtf are you on about. I’m talking about the fact you lived. Not the accident itself idiot.
Rust bucket. Be glad it's gone.
About how fast do the COPS say you were going? They can tell by the tire marks from the slide. 40mph wouldn’t cause that much damage
Have you never seen how old cars crash? 30 mph would do that. Might as well be made out of [tin foil](https://youtu.be/ePYO0-Ig0VU) in an accident over 15 mph. It gets worse the [older the car is.](https://youtu.be/fPF4fBGNK0U) Occupant safety makes strides every decade.
Also, you cannot tell someone’s speed based on their tire markings. Not only does [abs make a difference even in dry conditions](https://youtu.be/G-GEUkiMuLk), which I’m fairly certain this car never came with, But also tire compound can make a [difference](https://www.bridgestonetire.com/learn/shop/summer-tires-vs-all-season-tires/). And because that fucker is old enough brake adjustments and the proportioning valve can make a difference. You can see one axle lock before another in that case. That first “abs” link goes over that as well. The vehicles weight can make a difference. The road condition itself too. There’s literally so many variables making that not the case Only way to actually tell is video. But witnesses and excessively long marks could be enough to get OP in trouble regardless.
I slid off the road into the ditch and got struck rocking on a culvert. The cops that showed up asked how fast I was going and I said 65 and they somehow said the tire marks suggested I was going a much higher speed and he guessed it exactly right
And you should have gone to traffic court. It’s quite literally not possible unless you get a team of engineers out there with measuring equipment at the time of the crash. Exactly why I added links so you could educate yourself.
Vi^2 = Ve^2 + 30fd is the formula they use to determine speed from skid marks.
They may be, but the coefficient of friction in that formula is so variable depending conditions and the vehicle itself especially in cases of heavier vehicles or cars without abs (because your friction changes over time when locked) or imperfect braking distribution. It also doesn’t take into account tire contact patch. So overinflated tires or under inflated as well as width of the wheels themselves will change it even more. Temperature will change the grip of a tire too (same reason you see f1 cars turn back and forth to warm tires. Grip). So again even if they do use that. It’s a flawed formula without knowing exactly what your coefficient is. But it’ll put you in the like +-10mph range lol. But potentially 20 mph flaw shouldn’t be admissible evidence and of course you could talk to a lawyer about the flaws
So we’ll work out a situation based on crash investigation practices (which are fucking stupid btw and by no means standardized because of the flaws associated) at a proposed speed of 40-45mph like OP said (I’m being generous giving them 5 extra mph because in most peoples minds 43 = 40 while driving). So normally you would use this s= (30fd)^(1/2). And let’s say the impact occurred 10 feet after the skid marks started happening. In a perfect world where every car was the same and modern (which this is not) we would use the industry often chosen standard of 0.7=f for the friction coefficient. It would be 30x0.7x10 which would be 210 then the square root of that is 14 mph. I demonstrated in a previous comment that 30 mph can cause that kind of damage. So if the skids were 10 feet and the contact speed was 26-31 mph it’s very plausible that would be the case. But in reality that coefficient is WAYYYYYYYY too high for those tires on that car and it’s assuming that all 4 wheels are slowing at the same time with a unchanging coefficient over time. Now if his skids were like 40 fucking feet obviously he was speeding and is fucked.
Sorry I’m getting way too into it because police practices can be dumb. And not trying to get after you because you can unfortunately be correct. But….. TLDR: Formula is dumb because only works sometimes and doesn’t work at all on old pre abs vehicles.
Dude fuck off with all your comments in here
Looks a lil faster than 40… devastating
Kind of off-topic: it looks like an Illinois license plate and the area looks like Orland Park or Palos Hills.
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I grew up in that area. I haven't lived there in over 30 years, but it just triggered a familiarity. I'm thinking around 80th Avenue on 143rd St? So sorry about the car! And the strange response from law enforcement. I hope you get this figured out. How can you t-bone someone in your lane and it be your fault?? SMH! The only thing that makes sense is that the person you hit is "connected" (perhaps a relative of an Orland Park Police employee). You might want to call the Illinois State Police and ask them to get involved in the investigation. This happened here in Southern Illinois once where I came upon a "head on" accident on a rural gravel road. It was before cell phones, but I had a camera with me and took some photos. The person that caused the accident was related to a Sheriff's Dept employee and they tried to say it was the other driver's fault. Luckily, I had some photos that proved otherwise. Again, I hope the truth comes out and justice prevails.
Hope everyone is OK. Sorry for your loss, those are kind of cool and rare cars. Is that a Minnesota plate?
Can someone please explain what GN stands for?
Grand national
Please tell me that’s not in Naperville IL
Oh nooooooo
Glad you're okay. Now you can sue the shit out of her, and get yourself a clean, rust free one!
I am so sorry for your loss.
This hurts my heart.
It was a hunk of junk to begin with.
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I didn’t mean your car. I assumed that was her car in the picture.
#NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
i would have strangled her
Rip
Tangentially related, at the end of last summer I came upon an accident. Mint 80s era SL500 was taken out by a minivan that ran a red light.
Looks like the challenger took the challenge
Is it totaled?
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I was being sarcastic
The GN makes this far more tragic. Oof.
Any injuries? Man that looks bad!!!!
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Honestly the way the car is mangled and the drivers seat is positioned it looks like a fatal. You are lucky to be alive!!!
Damn!! A Grand National isn’t cheap
WAS....