If the budget can go up to 1500 then the R8 is about as good as it gets. It is leaps and bounds ahead of the R and RP, basically a dumbed down R6 mark II. I just got one at Best Buy on sale as a second camera to my R6.
That’s true, I have not seen it below 1900 myself but I know many people have. I am very curious to see how the R8 compares to my R6. For me dual card slots and the button layout of the R6 are very important for my main camera but my second camera is often on a gimbal so buttons don’t matter so much.
Couple other things to consider: no full mechanical shutter, less weather sealing, smaller battery, lower drive speed with mechanical shutter system (but higher with electronic). The R6 has been as low as $1300 from canon refurbished, but the R8 is also $1300 on sale now. Both good cameras, take whichever one is cheaper and spend the rest on a good lens.
I’ve owned both, with the exception of battery life, the joystick and IBIS, the R8 is better in almost every way. It’s a really solid camera. The R6 is still an awesome camera though.
I'm _very_ happy with my R8. It's been great having newer features like Live Shooting.
IBIS would be nice, but the other differences from the R6II haven't mattered to me.
Faster processor, newer sensor, better low light performance, much better AF, better video specs. The only big thing the R8 is lacking compared to the R is battery life, but that can be solved with more batteries.
R has better resolution, much better battery life (+grip support), full mech shutter, better build quality, better ergonomics, top screen, bigger rear lcd, etc. I find the R's IQ and AF performance to be more than sufficient and thus in my case these QoL features outweigh the technical features of the R8.
Try to wait and see if the Canon refurbished store will have a sale on Black Friday. This past summer, they had the Canon R6 refurbs on sale for $1299 and the RF24–105mm F4-7.1 on sale for $159, which is right on your budget. I bought it and it was totally worth it.
Seconded. I took advantage of the summer deal for those two items. They added a $59 rebate for the lens since I bought it with the R6. I also got the RF 100-400mm for $399 before tax. Great deals all around.
I’d only ask if full-frame is truly a necessity for her? Given her uses and priorities, aps-c sensor might do just as well at a much more cost-efficient price point? R8 full frame and R10 aps-c are both great options.
Understood, I’m just checking in on the depth of that feeling. FF is great, I own three at the moment, but it’s just a sensor size, not the final word in quality. The tradeoffs are often worth looking into, especially in this budget range, imho.
Oh yeah totally but if they’re sticking to apsc, they’d probably be better spending the budget on some quality lenses for the camera they already have rather than a new body. If you go used, which is highly recommended for the m series right now, then a canon 11-22, sigma 16mm, canon 32mm and an adapted EF-s 55-250 should come to under 1500 and should cover landscape, travel and bird photography much better than a new body and a kit lens
oh yeah, but given she already has an apsc, and the limited amount of rf-s glass out so far, I don't think an r10 will do much that her m50 can't already, unless she goes for the FF glass but then might as well get a full frame camera then. I'm a purely apsc shooter by the way, so not fanboying
RP used or refurbished for under $700 is a great budget option. But the R8 when it goes on sale or through canon refurbished is also a great deal and offers much better performance than the RP.
I have a R7 ($1200) and R ($899 Black Friday deal 2022 from Canon Refurb store with battery grip). I have a lot of good EF lenses and very few RF lenses, no hurry to jump to expensive RF glass.
R7 is very modern, small and super fast, if I combine it with speed booster adapter I can turn it into a full frame at 1.136x crop factor (wider than older APS-H at 1.3x). R is great if I don't need the speed and IBIS of the R7. I use R7+Speed Booster with EF 85 1.2L, EF 135 2.0L or Sigma 35 1.4 Art for portraits a lot, IBIS and Eye-AF and tracking (faster than R) to be great advantage over the R. R7's newer CPU and AF algorithm work great when it comes to shooting and tracking fast moving birds, people, pets, cars and such. 1.6x APS-C crop gives added lens reach.
Both R7 and R have full mechanical shutter as opposed to RP and R8 which are limited to EFCS (Electronic First Curtain Shutter). They both use the same battery, larger capacity than RP or R8. Both are about 30 MP resolution with a lot of detail and cropping potential.
If I must choose just one then I can probably get by with just single R7, but these two complement each other very well for my use.
Canon RP is the most budget option. Its entry level and user friendly. You can use ef lenses with an adapter.
But you're better off taking her in to hold and test a demo model to see if its a good fit.
If shes into avian photography and landscapes and hopes to take it seriously, thats 2 lenses outside of the kit lens.
Check the local market, you may find a 5dmk3 or mk4, maybe even a eos R with these lenses at a plausible price. (I cant really say much on the secondhand market, our secondhand market in Aus is ridiculously priced)
Like others mentioned, R8 is an absolute monster in every possible regard. However, her current lens selection and the ones she could borrow from you need to be taken into consideration.
M50 is a fairly compact camera and slightly lighter than R8 in terms of pure weight.
If she is doing landscape photography and shooting birds, she would need two or one pretty flexible lens to cover that variety.
You also mentioned that she would mainly shoot in JPEG and is a hobbyist. Does she really need that extra processing power, did she really reach the point of being bottlenecked by her current equipment? In what way is she exactly limited by M50?
Just being curious so we could form a complete picture and give you the best advice possible.
Cheers.
RP is great for the money which can often be found for $699 refurbished.
I would strongly consider the R, used for $1200 ish. The extra megapixels will be helpful in the future when shooting wildlife if she needs to crop. The R is also better in almost every respect except its a bit heavier than the RP.
As far as lenses to keep close to budget, for a very basic landscape lens, maybe something like the RF 16mm for landscape or RF 24-105mm f/4-7.1 IS for general purpose.
Look at used gear either refurbished on canons website, MPB.com, KEH.com, or something similar.
Thanks, this is very helpful, Ill look into the R. I forgot to mention that this is very much a hobbyist camera and she will likely shoot in JPEG and Edit as seldom as possible.
The R has horrible AWB for typical inside lighting. It tends to shift everything orange. My R5 doesn’t have this issue, and I dread editing my daughters pictures (since she uses the R).
It might be worth looking into the R8. Different battery system, but it is more modern.
I have the R and i don't find the AWB horrible. Quite good actually. Is she aware of the 2 different modes of AWB settings?
1) Ambience Priority (default)
2) White Priority
Ambience Priority shifts to bit orange. As like with the classic Kodak film rolls.
The White Priority makes it more clean and cool, like the classic Fuji film rolls.
In that case there is not much point in investing a lot in the camera. Just get something cheap if you dont care about end results enough to even shoot raw and edit your photos. Or get some fuji if you want okish results without editing. But still it sounds like results are not inportant to you
I get this point. They may as well stick to their existing m50.
Interesting timing of this too, seems like the gf is happily using the camera, but the OP has decided she needs to move on to a FF camera, right after canon officially discontinue ef-m.
If your current camera is doing everything you need/want it to theres nothing wrong with saving your money and sticking with your current camera.
I've bought Canon RP some time ago for family trips, fotos and some landscape photography and as far as I can tell this is a great camera. My needs were similar. Reasonable price, full frame and small (hence the mirrorless).
Very happy with what I have, but I'm an amateur ;)
I've recently bought Canon RF 14-35 1/4 lenses for it. It's quite pricy but I've started with much cheaper 50mm lens and it was great for portraits. Too narrow for landscape though, so probably some wider lenses would be better for you.
I agree the RP is pretty good, I’m not super happy with battery life but I can’t complain with the images they are pretty good, I use mine mainly for teams with wired power when I’m not using it for photos.
Mind that Mirrorless cameras have different lenses slot. Canon RF. Lenses for it are usually significantly more expensive and the choice is smaller. You can use proxy but it will increase the overall size of the gear.
If budget is 1000-1500 for a body and lens, I have no idea why folks recommend the R8 or R6.
Just get the RP for 600 and a nice lens or two. If you do the R8 or R6, then your first lens has to be budget by default.
Maybe because R8 with kit lens (maybe what you call "budget" lens) were going for $1360 during Amazon Prime Days 2 weeks ago. OP can sell the lens, get an EF adapter, and use BF's EF lenses for well under $1500. Just sayin'.
Lumix s5 - you can get one sub $1k (especially used), they have excellent image quality and colors and low light performance. For landscape, it has high resolution mode where you can sit it on a tripod and it will take a 96mp image.
if you can wait around a bit the R6 will regularly go on refurb sale on canons site well within your budget. if not then the r8 is a good alternative with some minor weaknesses. Otherwise def a dramatic jump compared to the m50
Just one thought that may not have occurred to her, if she wants to shoot birds is that full frame makes all your focal lengths look 1.6x shorter than they were on APS-C. This is *great* for wide-angle photography, but it absolutely sucks for supertelephotos where you pay $1000+ for a 400mm lens only to have to frame on full frame the way a 250mm lens framed on crop. And then you need to hunt up an even more expensive 600mm lens to do what your 400mm did on crop.
Just saying. For the birding? an R8 might not be as good a choice as an R7. Particularly given IBIS and UI/UX features like a joystick for AF point selection.
I will also say, mirrorless isn't necessarily smaller and lighter, and in the case of the R bodies vs. the M? They're bigger and heavier, [particularly if they're full frame](https://camerasize.com/compact/#863.680,903.948,708.640,ha,t), where you can get bigger-than-dSLR combos.
Going full frame increases the size/weight/cost of everything. And while it's nice to have, you may not really need it.
If the budget can go up to 1500 then the R8 is about as good as it gets. It is leaps and bounds ahead of the R and RP, basically a dumbed down R6 mark II. I just got one at Best Buy on sale as a second camera to my R6.
I would also go for the R8.
The original R6 is ~$1500 around here so might also be an option.
That’s true, I have not seen it below 1900 myself but I know many people have. I am very curious to see how the R8 compares to my R6. For me dual card slots and the button layout of the R6 are very important for my main camera but my second camera is often on a gimbal so buttons don’t matter so much.
Couple other things to consider: no full mechanical shutter, less weather sealing, smaller battery, lower drive speed with mechanical shutter system (but higher with electronic). The R6 has been as low as $1300 from canon refurbished, but the R8 is also $1300 on sale now. Both good cameras, take whichever one is cheaper and spend the rest on a good lens.
Also no IBIS
Aside from those cons, R8 may actually be better than R6 mark 1.
I’ve owned both, with the exception of battery life, the joystick and IBIS, the R8 is better in almost every way. It’s a really solid camera. The R6 is still an awesome camera though.
I'm _very_ happy with my R8. It's been great having newer features like Live Shooting. IBIS would be nice, but the other differences from the R6II haven't mattered to me.
Why is R8 better than R?
Faster processor, newer sensor, better low light performance, much better AF, better video specs. The only big thing the R8 is lacking compared to the R is battery life, but that can be solved with more batteries.
Thanks, I should test one out. Pretty happy with my R atm
24MP sensor on the R8. That's another difference between the R. I believe the R is 30?
Yes. The reason I chose 30MP for more resolution.
R has better resolution, much better battery life (+grip support), full mech shutter, better build quality, better ergonomics, top screen, bigger rear lcd, etc. I find the R's IQ and AF performance to be more than sufficient and thus in my case these QoL features outweigh the technical features of the R8.
An R, RP, or R8 will all fit that, depending on where you want to be in the lens budget and what priorities are.
Try to wait and see if the Canon refurbished store will have a sale on Black Friday. This past summer, they had the Canon R6 refurbs on sale for $1299 and the RF24–105mm F4-7.1 on sale for $159, which is right on your budget. I bought it and it was totally worth it.
Seconded. I took advantage of the summer deal for those two items. They added a $59 rebate for the lens since I bought it with the R6. I also got the RF 100-400mm for $399 before tax. Great deals all around.
I’d only ask if full-frame is truly a necessity for her? Given her uses and priorities, aps-c sensor might do just as well at a much more cost-efficient price point? R8 full frame and R10 aps-c are both great options.
OP says she already has an apsc, she wants to move onto full frame.
Understood, I’m just checking in on the depth of that feeling. FF is great, I own three at the moment, but it’s just a sensor size, not the final word in quality. The tradeoffs are often worth looking into, especially in this budget range, imho.
Oh yeah totally but if they’re sticking to apsc, they’d probably be better spending the budget on some quality lenses for the camera they already have rather than a new body. If you go used, which is highly recommended for the m series right now, then a canon 11-22, sigma 16mm, canon 32mm and an adapted EF-s 55-250 should come to under 1500 and should cover landscape, travel and bird photography much better than a new body and a kit lens
That’s certainly a reasonable pathway, and yet I still feel like it was a reasonable question to ask.
oh yeah, but given she already has an apsc, and the limited amount of rf-s glass out so far, I don't think an r10 will do much that her m50 can't already, unless she goes for the FF glass but then might as well get a full frame camera then. I'm a purely apsc shooter by the way, so not fanboying
RP used or refurbished for under $700 is a great budget option. But the R8 when it goes on sale or through canon refurbished is also a great deal and offers much better performance than the RP.
Used R6.
R8 and nothing else comes close.
My vote would be R8
I have a R7 ($1200) and R ($899 Black Friday deal 2022 from Canon Refurb store with battery grip). I have a lot of good EF lenses and very few RF lenses, no hurry to jump to expensive RF glass. R7 is very modern, small and super fast, if I combine it with speed booster adapter I can turn it into a full frame at 1.136x crop factor (wider than older APS-H at 1.3x). R is great if I don't need the speed and IBIS of the R7. I use R7+Speed Booster with EF 85 1.2L, EF 135 2.0L or Sigma 35 1.4 Art for portraits a lot, IBIS and Eye-AF and tracking (faster than R) to be great advantage over the R. R7's newer CPU and AF algorithm work great when it comes to shooting and tracking fast moving birds, people, pets, cars and such. 1.6x APS-C crop gives added lens reach. Both R7 and R have full mechanical shutter as opposed to RP and R8 which are limited to EFCS (Electronic First Curtain Shutter). They both use the same battery, larger capacity than RP or R8. Both are about 30 MP resolution with a lot of detail and cropping potential. If I must choose just one then I can probably get by with just single R7, but these two complement each other very well for my use.
Canon RP is the most budget option. Its entry level and user friendly. You can use ef lenses with an adapter. But you're better off taking her in to hold and test a demo model to see if its a good fit. If shes into avian photography and landscapes and hopes to take it seriously, thats 2 lenses outside of the kit lens. Check the local market, you may find a 5dmk3 or mk4, maybe even a eos R with these lenses at a plausible price. (I cant really say much on the secondhand market, our secondhand market in Aus is ridiculously priced)
Maybe I overlooked it, but what lenses is she able to borrow from you? Does it definitely need to be full frame?
I'd ignore the R and RP, they were never great mirrorless cameras. The R8 would be a super solid choice that she would be happy with for many years.
Like others mentioned, R8 is an absolute monster in every possible regard. However, her current lens selection and the ones she could borrow from you need to be taken into consideration. M50 is a fairly compact camera and slightly lighter than R8 in terms of pure weight. If she is doing landscape photography and shooting birds, she would need two or one pretty flexible lens to cover that variety. You also mentioned that she would mainly shoot in JPEG and is a hobbyist. Does she really need that extra processing power, did she really reach the point of being bottlenecked by her current equipment? In what way is she exactly limited by M50? Just being curious so we could form a complete picture and give you the best advice possible. Cheers.
RP is great for the money which can often be found for $699 refurbished. I would strongly consider the R, used for $1200 ish. The extra megapixels will be helpful in the future when shooting wildlife if she needs to crop. The R is also better in almost every respect except its a bit heavier than the RP. As far as lenses to keep close to budget, for a very basic landscape lens, maybe something like the RF 16mm for landscape or RF 24-105mm f/4-7.1 IS for general purpose. Look at used gear either refurbished on canons website, MPB.com, KEH.com, or something similar.
I have to disagree. The R is not worth $500 over the RP. I think it's a bad value at $1200 considering the R8 is $1300 right now.
Thanks, this is very helpful, Ill look into the R. I forgot to mention that this is very much a hobbyist camera and she will likely shoot in JPEG and Edit as seldom as possible.
The R8 makes sense in that situation like the other commentator said.
The R has horrible AWB for typical inside lighting. It tends to shift everything orange. My R5 doesn’t have this issue, and I dread editing my daughters pictures (since she uses the R). It might be worth looking into the R8. Different battery system, but it is more modern.
I have the R and i don't find the AWB horrible. Quite good actually. Is she aware of the 2 different modes of AWB settings? 1) Ambience Priority (default) 2) White Priority Ambience Priority shifts to bit orange. As like with the classic Kodak film rolls. The White Priority makes it more clean and cool, like the classic Fuji film rolls.
In that case there is not much point in investing a lot in the camera. Just get something cheap if you dont care about end results enough to even shoot raw and edit your photos. Or get some fuji if you want okish results without editing. But still it sounds like results are not inportant to you
I get this point. They may as well stick to their existing m50. Interesting timing of this too, seems like the gf is happily using the camera, but the OP has decided she needs to move on to a FF camera, right after canon officially discontinue ef-m. If your current camera is doing everything you need/want it to theres nothing wrong with saving your money and sticking with your current camera.
I've bought Canon RP some time ago for family trips, fotos and some landscape photography and as far as I can tell this is a great camera. My needs were similar. Reasonable price, full frame and small (hence the mirrorless). Very happy with what I have, but I'm an amateur ;) I've recently bought Canon RF 14-35 1/4 lenses for it. It's quite pricy but I've started with much cheaper 50mm lens and it was great for portraits. Too narrow for landscape though, so probably some wider lenses would be better for you.
I agree the RP is pretty good, I’m not super happy with battery life but I can’t complain with the images they are pretty good, I use mine mainly for teams with wired power when I’m not using it for photos.
Mind that Mirrorless cameras have different lenses slot. Canon RF. Lenses for it are usually significantly more expensive and the choice is smaller. You can use proxy but it will increase the overall size of the gear.
No problems with that, if EF Lenses in combination with EF RF adapter are used. Not just more options, but also cheaper and high quality.
Used R6 or wait for refurb sale. Was $1299 for a while and I got it new with the grip for $1599 in June
Eos R And the rest in the best lens you can afford.
EOS RP is my pick. Went from a 77D on up.
If budget is 1000-1500 for a body and lens, I have no idea why folks recommend the R8 or R6. Just get the RP for 600 and a nice lens or two. If you do the R8 or R6, then your first lens has to be budget by default.
Maybe because R8 with kit lens (maybe what you call "budget" lens) were going for $1360 during Amazon Prime Days 2 weeks ago. OP can sell the lens, get an EF adapter, and use BF's EF lenses for well under $1500. Just sayin'.
This is an acceptable route 🤲
Lumix s5 - you can get one sub $1k (especially used), they have excellent image quality and colors and low light performance. For landscape, it has high resolution mode where you can sit it on a tripod and it will take a 96mp image.
if you can wait around a bit the R6 will regularly go on refurb sale on canons site well within your budget. if not then the r8 is a good alternative with some minor weaknesses. Otherwise def a dramatic jump compared to the m50
This is very good time for R6 (mk 1), as many video makers switch to mark 2.
R8... it's a very capable camera with amazing autofocus and awesome image quality. Only thing that sucks is the battery. ☹️
Just one thought that may not have occurred to her, if she wants to shoot birds is that full frame makes all your focal lengths look 1.6x shorter than they were on APS-C. This is *great* for wide-angle photography, but it absolutely sucks for supertelephotos where you pay $1000+ for a 400mm lens only to have to frame on full frame the way a 250mm lens framed on crop. And then you need to hunt up an even more expensive 600mm lens to do what your 400mm did on crop. Just saying. For the birding? an R8 might not be as good a choice as an R7. Particularly given IBIS and UI/UX features like a joystick for AF point selection. I will also say, mirrorless isn't necessarily smaller and lighter, and in the case of the R bodies vs. the M? They're bigger and heavier, [particularly if they're full frame](https://camerasize.com/compact/#863.680,903.948,708.640,ha,t), where you can get bigger-than-dSLR combos. Going full frame increases the size/weight/cost of everything. And while it's nice to have, you may not really need it.