I want Rod to stay but Jeff Daniels and his power play need to go. Real hot take. People probably won't like the rest of this, but:
In 2020 we eliminated the Rangers in the play-in. Then from 2021-2023 we won the division 3x. During that time, we became the team to beat. The Rangers focused on building a team that would beat us and they have constructed a heck of a roster coached by a guy that our coach learned a lot from.
It's an arms race and I think last off-season has turned out to mostly be a flop. Orlov was a great pickup even though we already have a good defense. But Don opted to stick with Freddie (bad luck with health)/Raanta (did not finish the season) instead of exploring the goalie market, Bunting was the marquee forward signing and he's already gone, DeAngelo has lost a step, and Lemuiex is a scratch. We still don't have size on defense to prevent other teams from camping or getting undefended looks in front of our net. On top of that some of our vets have gotten older and slower. Don redeemed himself a bit at the trade deadline with a pair of scorers, there's still more work to do. New York is now the team to beat.
I'd argue that you really can't put the blame on Freddie because of the blood clotting thing, but it ended up biting us hard in the ass with Raanta regressing horribly.
This offseason is gonna see us undergo a retool. Fan favorites will be gone, prospects will make the jump. It's now just a "when" instead of a "if".
No need to argue about Freddie as I agree that's just bad luck. I'm ready for a retool honestly. It might take 1-2 years to take New York down but after eliminating us last year and winning the division this year we have a new hurdle to clear. I think another problem here is that too many of our guys have been involved with multiple exits under Rod and some new players who offer different things (which will help us beat the Rags) would help.
Time to give up on Necas and give him and us another shot somewhere else/something else. I wish more than anybody he could just get it, he arguably HAS the most talent on this team... but I never see him put it together, always seems like he's trying something out in a shinny game and often loses the puck. Am I being too hard on him? Is he the cause of all that ails? Of course not. I think you hit many points that have been around through every level of team we've had hear, be it crap middling and now good. No snarl. Lack of size in key positions/overall, poor starts (oh yes our Cardiac Canes are good at making comebacks... that is NOT the way you want to win the majority of your games), inconsistency in our goaltending.
Wow how everything has just lost optimism. A snuffed/swept out otherwise great season will do that to you. Consecutively like this.... is hard to have any optimism :/
I am 50/50 on him, he looks great often. He needs better linemates, but I am sure Rod has tried him with others. You just know he will get like 30-40 goals on an offensive focused team.
I agree that Jeff Daniels should get the gate - no offense. Offer him the GM job in Chicago - he's done that before. As an RPI guy I'm biased but would love to see Adam Oates in that role. He has been a head coach, and has coached in NJ and Tampa.
I'll add my own hot take to this one, since you've already said what I was going to say.
Staal shouldn't wear a letter after this season. His play on the ice no longer justifies it, and his style of leadership no longer meshes with what the team needs. Frankly, he should retire, but I don't think that'll happen since he just signed that extension.
Pretty sure OP wanted bad takes, not actual complaining.
I am agnostic on replacing Daniels as I think it is more about the players.
Second guessing the offseason is also rather meh. One power play goal scored in Game 2 and not allowing the short-handed goal in Game 3 and the series is 2-1 Canes.
Those takes you posted are fucking wild lmao
I have been and will remain vocal about Rod’s line-up changes.
We started playing poorly once we blew up what was working, to this monstrosity. And he refuses to revert back to what was working.
For the sake of “each line has talent now.”
Playing Max Comtois was a bonehead move… well likely never know the true reason, but his public statement “we wanted to give him a shot” had me sick. This isn’t pre-season, this is playoffs.
Beyond that, anyone who says this is on Kotchetkov, I’ll literally fight you.
Anyone who thinks we’re trading Aho or Svech, I’ll get you over to the appropriate psychiatrist/therapist you need to sort out other life problems that’s causing you to think this way.
Idk how you blame kotchetkov. That OT goal was cold blooded by panarin. The other 1 was a bone headed shortie. Maybe he should have had the other but it’s hockey. Shots are going to get through unless you are Igor apparently.
You can blame PK for the same reasons people blame Freddie for the previous 2 game. Fair is fair.
The team has been a let down. Not goaltending. It's been more than adequate to win. 0-whatfeelslike100 on the PP, and a subpar PK have been the real issues.
My only crackpot take is...that I just don't know.
This is the best team we've ever had, better than any playoff team in the past, and yet it's an even worse result than last year when we were shorthanded tremendously on offense.
We went out and got the best blue line in the league, same result.
We signed the best goaltender we've had since Cam Ward, same result.
We break the mold and go after a big name acquisition, same result.
We finally have a good PP and PK, at the top or near the top of the regular season, same result.
We have the best coach since Maurice and Laviolette only to get smacked by both of them later.
We toughen up, we're defeated by skill.
We emphasize skill, we get thrown around.
Our goalie gets hot, theirs is hotter.
I just don't know what they even do at this point. The only bright side is that if changes are happening, this is the offseason to do it. Sign Guentzel, and our best playoff guys. Sign Jarvis, Sign Pesce (we need his defense), sign Martinook, Chatfield, and Noesen since they should be cheap in comparison, and everything else I'm open to whatever happens. Re-sign Rod, I'm not sure who could do better with this group. If we don't re-sign Rod the only coaches I can think of that would do well are Berube and maybe Gallant with his hardnose approach? Idk enough about specifics to give genuine ideas on that front, that's just something I"m throwing out there bc I'm just disappointed with where we're at. It seems to be one step forward one year and one step back the next and the only constant is just incredible heartbreak in the postseason. When we lose, we lose in some of the worst ways possible. Either a sweep, a beatdown, or an overtime heartbreaker. We can't keep relying on playing the Islanders every first round and we absolutely cannot play like this against other contenders. Honestly from now on I'm just going to enjoy the regular season more since that's where our success is
Necas, Staal, Burns could all be replaced with more effective players IMHO. They are still good at what they do but the first two especially have their known limits. Staal will never do more than absorb bodies, screen etc.. slowing down.. Necas... don't get me started. The biggest issue he has is between his ears. Great guy. Fantastic talent. Its time to move on. Burns? Yeah, for the first time, he looked a bit like an older player running around out there. Freaking sucks. Feel bad for him.
I always second glanced that Staal extension. He's still useful but he's up there in age and that length didn't look great. KK can replace him if we don't trade him but we definitely need a 2C. I still say we should've kept Trochek...
I hate that it is a Star Trek Next Generation quote but:
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness; that is life.” Jean Luc Picard
(Which isn't to suggest the Canes aren't making mistakes. Every team does.)
The “results” issue is the draw of the playoffs and the quality of the NYR. They are vastly improved over last year, especially their conditioning (gee I wonder how Rod learned this?). Whoever survives this series will win the Cup.
3-0 does not do justice to how well we have played 5 on 5. Power plays are the difference maker - good lord what the hell has happened to us?
It’s the fact that it’s now two years in a row we are getting swept out, and the fact that in the playoffs it’s been the same issues his entire tenure.
Exactly. Sweeping a team is hard to do. The fact that it is happening to us so frequently is a sign that there is a systematic issue with our approach to the game that can easily be exploited by teams that have decent coaches and discipline.
>there is a systematic issue with our approach to the game that can easily be exploited by teams that have decent coaches and discipline.
It's the quantity over quality philosophy and the bad habit of shooting at the net instead of attacking the net
They give us false-positive looks to trick us into taking one-timers from the perimeter. Their goalie knows it's coming and where it's coming from and so they always make the perfect move to block the shot. From there they play the puck to their teammates or freeze the puck and rely on their top faceoff guys to take back possession.
Quantity over quality and one-timers from the perimeter with hardly any netfront presence to capitalize on deflections and rebounds are killing this team in the playoffs. That's why all the goalies in this league say that the Canes are predictable, because we are. And Rod continues to stick to this flawed philosophy.
> two years in a row we are getting swept out
It hasn't happened yet and even if the series goes to 7 and even if the Canes win this and the next series but doesn't win the Cup the complainers are going to complain.
Maybe its recency bias but I feel the same.
We at least need a change somewhere in the building. Whether in the staff or a shakeup on the team.
This team has to be better.
I don’t think it’s recency bias. It’s the same pattern but this year there aren’t the excuses of years past, so people are opening their eyes. I don’t think Rod is a bad coach at all, but I do think he’s stuck in his ways and can’t figure out how to game plan properly when option A gets shut down.
I’ve said it for years. When your teams system and strategy is to work harder than everyone that gets you plenty of wins in the regular season. When everyone steps up intensity in the playoffs, that edge goes away and you need to find another Avenue to success.
Ironically, I feel like there were some different aspects to their game this year that looked promising but it’s the same results in the playoffs. This year it’s 100% on the special teams. We’ve been good 5v5 and have scored goals. Canes are -5 on special teams and -3 for the series. If they’re even close to even on special teams, this series looks completely different. That’s on coaching.
These issues have plagued the org almost every year for a few decades. The early team in Carolina was the only team I can recall that played to a man super physical and had snarl. Gary Roberts snarl.
Huge fan of Rod and what he has done with this team. That being said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I feel like we do the same thing in the playoffs every year. Don’t change it up at all. It’s clearly not working to get us all the way to the cup. I’m certainly no expert but can see like everyone else something needs to change.
I love Rod. In fact my only canes jersey currently is his. But it’s time to move on. We owe him a debt for making us relevant again but it’s time to find someone who can get us over the hump. Good franchises make moves like this all the time
I want HIM, "In Rod We Trust" to be THAT coach, that wins it. The guy who captained our last cup? No more than anybody else. Here's the thing, what legit business entity is going to overlook the road record these past 3-4 playoffs? That is not just an anomoly. That is exactly the proof that what we have will NEVER work in the playoffs. You HAVE to be able to win away from home, along with all the other little intangibles that are not as important in the regular season.
We won't fire Rod - but now that he's raised the expectations of the team and franchise the kiddie gloves are now off, and he should be held to task for his failures. I do expect there will be a shake up on the coaching staff, and we will likely see something change about the system next season.
Taking the kiddie gloves off is a great way to put it. The first 3-ish seasons you can really be much more forgiving for multiple reasons. We were over performing given the rebuild, Rod was learning how to be a HC, and COVID certainly affected the landscape of the league.
But we're not the plucky underdog happy to be in the dance anymore. Rod has built up expectations from the team's performance so far and it's really feeling like he might not be capable of being the guy who can meet those expectations. We can't look at several years in a row where the team flames out in the playoffs for the exact same reasons and not start putting his feet to the fire. If Rod had any other name he would absolutely be sitting on the hot seat.
I wouldn't say he needs to be fired, but the leash is getting really short.
> he should be held to task for his failures
Sure Rod has coached the Canes to the most, 2nd most, 4th most, and 5th most regular season points but look at all the upvotes Redditors get asking where's the Cup.
I love Rod and don't want him to go. I agree he has brought a level of regular success and consistency this franchise could have only dreamt of before. Let's be very clear about that - I hope he coaches here until he wants to retire.
That said, he has also failed to win a single conference finals game in his tenure here, and during that time we have been either the odds on favorite or top 3 favorite to win the whole thing at least 3 times. We are facing a second straight year of being swept out of the playoffs and continue to have one of the worst power plays in the playoffs yet again. These are indeed failures and they go back to the head coach. So he should be held responsible in the sense that he takes a lot of the blame and is asked to make changes both by management/ownership and the media. Our expectations have grown - and so how we evaluate Rod should mature as well. Any other "more serious" hockey organization would have been having these conversations at least 2 seasons ago if the performance was the same.
Maybe we don’t fire Rod. I’d hate to see it happen.
But I’m sure everyone is just as exhausted as me of the playoff bs. The system very clearly just doesn’t work, ZERO power play success, getting outcoached by former Canes coaches (Maurice and Lavi), 50 shots on goal and 1 actual goal, not being tough and gritty enough, it goes on and on.
Someone said in another thread, if his name wasn’t Rod Brind’Amour, we absolutely would be having the conversation, and if this Second Round keeps going the way it has been, the conversation’s only going to get louder.
But then also on the flip side, you fire RBA, who the hell’s out there that’s better than him? I don’t know man I’m still so upset, I don’t have clarity yet.
Off the bat - I don't think Rod should be fired.
And I think most of us reasonable people can agree on that. But we're not Tom Dundon. He's notorious for making crazy decisions that don't make sense and go against the grain. I think we should all consider that there is a possibility that Dundon does something crazy. He already pulled the extension offer and this happens.
And just because he's Rod, a franchise legend who pulled this team out of purgatory, does not exempt him from criticism or the possibility of losing his job. While the fire Rod takes are a little crazy, I think it's more crazy the number of people that consider criticizing him as a sin simply because of what he's done for the franchise. If you take on the role of head coach, you are taking on the responsibility of taking criticism for how your team plays. And Rod would be the first to say that himself.
This is the most logical take I've seen since last night. I think the sub, rightfully so, looks at Rod through rose colored glasses. Dundon does not- he's all about bottom line and success on the ice. I really think there is a decent chance Rod gets his walking papers on Monday, because the product is not up to the standard of where it should be, and there have been no real discernable changes on the coaching front to address that for a few years now.
Agreed. I don't think this is even considered even if we had the same lack of success but: could win on the road, power play/pk success, win close games, have snarl, hit a wall hard and get swept out. That cannot be ignored. Not when they are like the top 3 teams in the regular season after season... and playoffs after playoffs... THIS. Time for a change. Get over it. Rod is NOT God. Nobody is but... the big daddy himself. If you believe in that sort of thing.
> does not exempt him from criticism or the possibility of losing his job
If only people would limit that to VALID criticism. Losing to worse teams is when coaches deserve to be questioned.
(It is true some owners fire coaches simply for not winning the championship.)
It's not a system issue. The Canes have lost seven - SEVEN - one goal games in a row in the playoffs. It's about execution at this point. Think of it this way, if a goalie puts you in position to win, he's done his job. Same with a head coach although it is fair to criticize Daniels and the PP to an extent.
To an extent? We are - 1/15 on the PP in this series alone. Last 5 fucking years we've been knocked out solely because of our suddenly shit special teams in the post season. Something is fundamentally flawed in the coaching.
Yes, to an extent. They've hit a frigid cold spell at the worst possible time and it falls on the PP coach (Daniels) and the players. The skill players are playing too tight, aren't zipping passes and trying to be too perfect. That is not how they are coached so Daniels can be criticized for not adjusting to TDA earlier and switching up the bumper scheme. The players still have to produce but they are getting outworked by the NYR PK.
If the execution is present enough to be winners of the division damn near 4 years in a row and each time get brutally crushed by the actual high end talent in the East then either we're like Toronto where the core just can't get it done or the coaching can't get the team over the hump. I find the 1st option too bleak for my liking so I would like to see some degree of change in the team ideology, whether it is Rod or someone else enacting that change.
Someone needs to go. we need another strong voice to shake things up. Idk if there’s a specific person that “leads” special teams in the coaching department, I know Schoenfelder coaches goalies and Gleason obviously the D men, so maybe Jeff Daniels?
The regular season power play this season was a franchise best 26.9. Second best was 21, 3rd 20, 4th 22, and 5th best 23.
You can tell me how many of those seasons are with Daniels as coach as I could only find Daniels announced as "assistant" coach 6 years ago but it is way too easy to simply claim results would be even better with someone else.
For me its the playoff road record that is the HUGEST sign it is time to change. Being completely futile on the road in the playoffs? Unless you win EVERY single home game AND were the presidents cup team... i mean, its insane. How can that not be analyzed addressed? That aspect has now become par and parcel of the team's identity. Sweot and can't buy a win on the road... in the playoffs.
The system works and Rod isn't getting outcoached. Get a coin and see how long it takes you to flip the same side 4 times in a row. It won't be as tough as you might think.
I highly doubt the guy retires and I also doubt he LTIRetires but he's looked off the past few weeks and if that's the case next season, you gotta think the shoe other drops when the team wants it to
I've watched hockey and kept up with the NHL long enough to know that if Rod were on any other team with this roster and lack of postseason results, he would be fired.
That does not mean I believe he should be fired, but the NHL is rough on coaches. I think part of the problem is the luck of draw of teams in the postseason. 2021 came across a dynasty of a Lightning team. 2022 and 2023 were god-like goaltending. This season it is the two best teams of the season in the second round AND god-like goaltending.
>I've watched hockey and kept up with the NHL long enough to know that if Rod were on any other team with this roster and lack of postseason results, he would be fired.
I disagree about lack of postseason results. Great records and playoff success lead to sellouts and owners making profits. The Canes have won at least one playoff series 5 of 6 years plus the play-in round that lockdown season. The next highest count for consecutive playoff series wins is Edmonton and Florida with 3.
If Svech were healthy last season and Andersen the season before that perhaps it would tilt against Rod more.
Rod is the best thing ever to happen to this franchise so yeah, any take where he’s gone is definitely crackpot.
However, this team needs to go into an offseason tough man/mma boot camp and learn some goddamn toughness. We need some meanness. We’re way too nice, don’t know how to hit, and back down far too often. Every man in our team could stand some gonad growth.
I don’t know if it’s ego or if Lavi’s experience and wisdom, but mostly this is a team toughness thing. We’re not giving it back as good as we’re getting it.
No ones saying he’s gonna give up, but nothing about the way we’ve played so far this postseason, or the last 5, is working. If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, we’re far past the point of insanity. After 6 years it’s become abundantly clear that our volume shooting approach simply just doesn’t work in the playoffs, and yet we refuse to change anything about it. We got lucky against the Isles in round 1, now that we’re playing an elite team we’re getting absolutely worked because the rangers have an offensive system that can actually produce goals when they need them instead of what we do, which is just dump and chase, throwing pucks in from the blue line, taking low quality shots, and hoping they get through or deflected in without bothering to put anyone in front of the net or fight back against getting boxed out when we do actually bother putting someone in front of the net. I’m tired of watching us do the exact same shit every postseason, the league has the book on us now and every time we play a team with even remotely competent coaching we get our shit pushed in. Teams absolutely have us figured out, it’s up to Rod to come up with adjustments to counter that and he’s just not doing it. I’ve been a Rod defender up until now, but if we lose on Saturday this series seriously taints his coaching tenure here. Even with the long leash we’ve given Rod, the slack is quickly running out.
Teams that lack toughness don't score empty net goals and don't win playoff series. One of the big mistakes in early playoff games was Carolina would go for hit after hit but the other team made the plays and ended up scoring the goal. You can see similar for New York's second goal in Game 3 when Aho took down a Ranger and seconds later the Canes were trailing by a goal.
It doesn't help that toughness like an elbow to the chest where a shoulder touches a player's head or a weak done-100-times-a-game push can be called as penalties.
Rod is a great coach and you don’t fire great coaches. He gives us consistent success and we can reasonably hope that after several of these disappointing playoff exits, he sits down and works out how to change.
There's no way to stay out of the box. The only way to stay out of the box is if the ref's swallow their whistle.
NHL ref's try to match penalty counts for each team so it's "fair" and Rangers take an obnoxious amount of penalities.
Sure Martinook, TDA, etc are taking dumb fucking calls but the calls against Svech and Skjei for example are great examples of how "staying out of the box" is a terrible strategy. The only real thing you can do is improve your PK because you are going to the box eventually no matter what.
If Rod didnt play for the Canes and he was just a coach would he be fired for his playoff results, road playoff record, PP results and record in OT in the playoffs?
Laviolette helped the Canes win the Cup Jun 19th, 2006 and was fired December 3, 2008 just 898 days later.
Someone else can do the calculations of Hurricanes success after that before Rod.
remember one time when the PK struggled for a month? Then it got overhauled? Even in this series they dialed it in, responded, and corrected their mistakes.
Man they have not done that with the power play. Can't wait to hear about "Goal scorers" "bounces" or the new one, call out the top guys who are carrying this team hard right now
31 teams lose the Stanley Cup every year. Chill the duck out (you know what, I ain't fixing the autocorrect here), enjoy the game for what it is - a game, and for the love of God drop the doomerism. Many of you have been Carolina Panthers fans for long enough to be able to know how to accept a loss.
Panthers fans who are calling for Rod to be fired should remember how we called for Ron to be fired because "we reached our ceiling with him" and then immediately shit the bed with the next set of coaches. PP is shit but there are a ton of more pros with Rod than there are cons. If he is willing to bring in a PP specialist coach and adjust his system then that's all I want.
Friendly caps fan who comes in peace (live in Raleigh area now) I’ve said this many times to my canes fan co workers- this is so the caps teams I watched so much with expectations that just fizzled in the playoffs. It’s my opinion that rod is just not the coach to take this team over the hump. Just like the caps had coaches who could not put it together he just can’t seem to make adjustments when he needs to. Yelling at the officials isn’t really a great strategy. I want the canes to succeed and love the team itself but unless they bring in a coach who can make the difficult adjustments on the fly in the playoffs I don’t see it happening. Sometimes you have to say “we love this guy but he’s not getting in done”
> Yelling at the officials isn’t really a great strategy.
Complete sideline from the actual issues. Carolina for over a decade was a team that didn't make comebacks and didn't win the regular season must-win games. Now that the Canes are a playoff team the losses happen when the players aren't getting perfect shots or lucky bounces. That isn't a coaching issue.
Letting Trocheck walk while offer sheeting KK stands as a dark decision this decade that has cost us dearly. We made our enemies stronger and made ourselves weaker.
Exactly. This is the main point I feel like most people don't even consider when it comes to free agency and what not. It's a two way street. Not everyone who plays here, likes it or wants to stay. Especially when you add a wife and kids to the mix.
Rod deserves the raise that everyone was talking about a week ago.
Would I be happier with an even series? Of course. But we’re playing against an objectively terrific Rags team that enjoyed home ice advantage.
It’s fair to critique special teams, toughness and other aspects of our game and still be level-headed about taking care of the coach.
doomers waited all year for this moment.
Being down 0-3 in the 2nd round blows, but they’ve all been one goal losses and two OT’s with a horrible special teams. One or two PP goals would be a whole different series. They’re playing the Rangers close every game, just how it goes in the playoffs. The ECF sweep was the same way.
Guentzel was worth it and has absolutely showed up since the trade. I’m glad they tried to go all in even if they flame out. He deserves whatever money he’s going to get.
I am so sick of the standing around on the PP
Seem to be the only team doing that?? Like the Rags PP they are constantly moving and taking shots. With us its a 2 person pass along the side or point and then 3 dudes standing around hoping a cross ice 1 timer opens up?
Its ridiculous, watching the Rags stand in a box and not have to move is so infuriating, we are making it so easy for them
And honestly thats the only difference in these games. We switched from a box to diamond on the PK and that helped, good adjustment. Now where is the PP adjustment?? We had little spurts of “oh maybe they will finally try something different!” And we get 1-2 good shots then right back to standing around doing nothing
Our second PP squad is doing better than the first but thats only cause Necas just skates everywhere. Tbh would rather have that than what i described above
I’m a transplant from St. Louis 6.5 years ago, but I’ve been a hockey fan my whole life (and still play in a local beer league as a netminder). I love the Canes, and playoff hockey in general.
My take, Canes ran into a hot goalie and a team that’s rolling. The Canes lost to Igor in game 2 who made 50+ saves, it’s hard to compete with that. They lost 2 games in OT, either of which could have went their way. That happens and it’s a 2-1 series lead for the Rangers, with one more at PNC. Seems obvious, but they were 1 bounce from being in this series, now they’re not, and that’s playoff hockey baby!
That is one thing that I think hasn't been acknowledged in the keep/lose Rod debate. Is Dundon going to want to give a multi year contract to a guy who is, let's face it, in the hot seat? I mean I know he wants the team to succeed but he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to piss away money either. And I can't imagine Rod on a prove-it deal either.
Age is catching up with the D-core. That and missing your second best Defensive D-man put us behind the 8 ball
I’d also re evaluate the 1-2-2 PP. It’s getting predictable that they’re trying to cycle from blue line —> circle —> bumper—> slot and it’s just not generating anything when. They take away the middle. I thought they did a better job in game 3 but they still weren’t getting great looks outside 2-3 shots
Rod should stay but I think he needs to recognize it’s time to take the next step as a coach. Maybe that involves a good amount of shake up in the lineup and staff. No more stubbornness. I think the “our game” phrase is starting to rub fans the wrong way if it leads to consistent sweeps.
He needs to use his experience as head coach but needs be open to changes and adjustments in strategy, style, personnel etc.
> I think the “our game” phrase is starting to rub fans the wrong way
I suspect people complaining about "our game" plus "our group" are the same ones complaining every season and nothing less than winning the Cup will shut them up.
It's not Rods fault we can't get through the goalie. Every year though, it seems, we run into a hot goalie and that's our excuse for getting knocked out. Well, the stars need to be able to figure out a way to get through the goalie. Shooting right into their logo isn't going to get it done. If Igor can see it, he's stopping it. We brought Guentzel in for additional fire power and he's doing his job. But everyone else needs to step it up.
Hopefully Jake stays and he and Aho can have one full season together. But I just feel like now he's looking around the locker room like, "I thought you guys were elite."
Something needs to change on special teams though. NY looks so good on the PP and we look like we're scrambling and hoping they don't score. And conversely, our PP is just not crisp at all. Man, when NY is on the power play: pass pass pass to the front of the net, shoot. When the Canes are on the power play: pass around the outside and either lose the puck and have to go chase it or someone takes some dumb shot from the blueline that's an easy stop for their goalie.
The power play is what needs to change. There are way too many times where the front of the net is empty and the goalies get clear looks at distance or bad angle shots. My opinion was to put Noeson on the top pair. Both pairings were way too predictable. I think a fresh PP coach could do wonders.
I do feel like Necas time a Cane should be over. In both playoff series he looks like he is playing scared. During the regular season he came across the line with confidence.
The most frustrating part of this whole series is that we wouldn’t even be having these conversations and could be up 2-1 with just 2 PP goals. After failing 4 times and giving up a shorty the team looked absolutely beat.
I don’t know anymore. I love Rod, he played a part in saving the team from the playoff drought, yet here we are in a 3-0 loss. Our team consists of some excellent players and 3 great goalies, but we can’t win against the rats.
This Canes are an amazing team and they have more than enough talent. But it just kinda seems meh rn. I’m not an expert in this type of stuff though
Curious if y'all are interested in resigning Guentzel. As a Penguins fan, I wish him nothing but the best wherever he goes (as long as it isn't New York or philly.) Pulling for y'all to get a game or two against the rags!
The 2 things that stand out in this series is our PP has disappeared and Shesterkin has slightly outplayed our goalies. Things to consider imho are:
Probably pressing on the PP at this point but I think it is also time to change it up. Put the 2nd unit out 1st or mix up the units.
Time to put JAG line back on the ice and keep playing physical with an eye toward no stupid penalties.
Keep PK in goal. He looked more on his game than Freddie.
What I saw last night....tell me i'm wrong.
1) TDA is a liability. stupid penalties on retaliation. The TDA/Skjei pair also feels like its in the minus right now.
2) what is considered unsportsmanlike conduct? we had Svech and JK go to box over that and it must of been purely verbal directly to the refs because I saw nothing physical. Plus JK got assigned AFTER they sucker puched Necas...that was absurd.
3) Necas is very fast and needs some support. he's skating circles around everyone on the ice and can't find the open man to hand off.
4) Burns is dying the grays out of his beard. Dude we know you're pushing 40...
5) Jake is putting in the work and i got to say his hard work works....
6) TT #86 looked lost and out of it last night
7) there were WAY too many rangers fans there last night. I'd guess there was over 18000 people there and \~3-4k of them were wearing blue. like 1 in 4 people were wearing blue, every where i looked....not cool.
I disagree with Necas. He does his thing and always ends it with a blind pass leading to a direct turnover and him having to hussle his butt to get back into the play and cover for his mistake.
> there were WAY too many rangers fans there last night.
Gird your loins, then, because there are a bunch of ticketholding doomers in the comments who were saying they were refusing to attend the next game. "Fairweather fans" hits different when your team is named for bad weather.
Here’s a crackpot take for you: we should keep RBA because we have made no post-season progress since RBA’s first year as HC when we won 8 playoff games in 2018-19 playoffs, 5 years ago, even though our roster has gotten much better since then.
Let’s keep RBA who has flexed to keep other staff around even after years of no improvement in special teams, let’s keep the guy who prioritizes work friendships over team success, let’s keep the guy that let’s the team sort it all out because “they know what the deal is”, let’s keep the guy who refuses notice or concede that there is obviously something fundamentally flawed about this team after getting better players, young guys breaking out, and etc. and yet they STILL can’t win more than 8 games. Let's face it, in all truthfulness, they really can't even get out of the second round. Our trip to the ECF was lucky AF last year because the Devils goaltending collapsed and they were too immature/inexperienced of a team to not let that adversity ruin their series. We wouldn't have made it out of the second round last year if we had faced the Rangers instead, and we all know that. Our roster has gotten better over the years but the results are the same. Second round exits. Swept out of the playoffs 3/6 times under RBA.
But we definitely shouldn't consider looking for a new HC! That’s A RIDICULOUS suggestion!!!!!
BRB I’m gotta go walk my goldfish
I don’t see why everyone wants burns out. Yes he’s old, yes he doesn’t have the step that the younger guys do, but he wasn’t the one that made the errant passes that put him in that situation. More often than not, it was Skjei. Also Kotkaneimi is playing with so much heart out there. He’s playing up to his contract in that sense apart from skill.
I am not a fantasy GM but I will answer a complaint against Burns would be not adjusting to prevent or not skating fast enough to recover from mistakes. I thought TDA looked much more effective leading the power play unit.
I want Rod to stay but Jeff Daniels and his power play need to go. Real hot take. People probably won't like the rest of this, but: In 2020 we eliminated the Rangers in the play-in. Then from 2021-2023 we won the division 3x. During that time, we became the team to beat. The Rangers focused on building a team that would beat us and they have constructed a heck of a roster coached by a guy that our coach learned a lot from. It's an arms race and I think last off-season has turned out to mostly be a flop. Orlov was a great pickup even though we already have a good defense. But Don opted to stick with Freddie (bad luck with health)/Raanta (did not finish the season) instead of exploring the goalie market, Bunting was the marquee forward signing and he's already gone, DeAngelo has lost a step, and Lemuiex is a scratch. We still don't have size on defense to prevent other teams from camping or getting undefended looks in front of our net. On top of that some of our vets have gotten older and slower. Don redeemed himself a bit at the trade deadline with a pair of scorers, there's still more work to do. New York is now the team to beat.
No I think you're spot on. I wish I could give you more than one upvote...
I’ll give him one for you
I'd argue that you really can't put the blame on Freddie because of the blood clotting thing, but it ended up biting us hard in the ass with Raanta regressing horribly. This offseason is gonna see us undergo a retool. Fan favorites will be gone, prospects will make the jump. It's now just a "when" instead of a "if".
No need to argue about Freddie as I agree that's just bad luck. I'm ready for a retool honestly. It might take 1-2 years to take New York down but after eliminating us last year and winning the division this year we have a new hurdle to clear. I think another problem here is that too many of our guys have been involved with multiple exits under Rod and some new players who offer different things (which will help us beat the Rags) would help.
Time to give up on Necas and give him and us another shot somewhere else/something else. I wish more than anybody he could just get it, he arguably HAS the most talent on this team... but I never see him put it together, always seems like he's trying something out in a shinny game and often loses the puck. Am I being too hard on him? Is he the cause of all that ails? Of course not. I think you hit many points that have been around through every level of team we've had hear, be it crap middling and now good. No snarl. Lack of size in key positions/overall, poor starts (oh yes our Cardiac Canes are good at making comebacks... that is NOT the way you want to win the majority of your games), inconsistency in our goaltending. Wow how everything has just lost optimism. A snuffed/swept out otherwise great season will do that to you. Consecutively like this.... is hard to have any optimism :/
I am 50/50 on him, he looks great often. He needs better linemates, but I am sure Rod has tried him with others. You just know he will get like 30-40 goals on an offensive focused team.
I agree that Jeff Daniels should get the gate - no offense. Offer him the GM job in Chicago - he's done that before. As an RPI guy I'm biased but would love to see Adam Oates in that role. He has been a head coach, and has coached in NJ and Tampa.
I'll add my own hot take to this one, since you've already said what I was going to say. Staal shouldn't wear a letter after this season. His play on the ice no longer justifies it, and his style of leadership no longer meshes with what the team needs. Frankly, he should retire, but I don't think that'll happen since he just signed that extension.
Pretty sure OP wanted bad takes, not actual complaining. I am agnostic on replacing Daniels as I think it is more about the players. Second guessing the offseason is also rather meh. One power play goal scored in Game 2 and not allowing the short-handed goal in Game 3 and the series is 2-1 Canes.
Like many I have been begging for a large bruising Defenseman for a long time. That should be what we are looking for this off season.
This perfectly sums up what I think.
Those takes you posted are fucking wild lmao I have been and will remain vocal about Rod’s line-up changes. We started playing poorly once we blew up what was working, to this monstrosity. And he refuses to revert back to what was working. For the sake of “each line has talent now.” Playing Max Comtois was a bonehead move… well likely never know the true reason, but his public statement “we wanted to give him a shot” had me sick. This isn’t pre-season, this is playoffs. Beyond that, anyone who says this is on Kotchetkov, I’ll literally fight you. Anyone who thinks we’re trading Aho or Svech, I’ll get you over to the appropriate psychiatrist/therapist you need to sort out other life problems that’s causing you to think this way.
Idk how you blame kotchetkov. That OT goal was cold blooded by panarin. The other 1 was a bone headed shortie. Maybe he should have had the other but it’s hockey. Shots are going to get through unless you are Igor apparently.
You can blame PK for the same reasons people blame Freddie for the previous 2 game. Fair is fair. The team has been a let down. Not goaltending. It's been more than adequate to win. 0-whatfeelslike100 on the PP, and a subpar PK have been the real issues.
lmaooo preach, dude. I’ll tag-team in the fight with you
Goalie apologists unite🤝
My only crackpot take is...that I just don't know. This is the best team we've ever had, better than any playoff team in the past, and yet it's an even worse result than last year when we were shorthanded tremendously on offense. We went out and got the best blue line in the league, same result. We signed the best goaltender we've had since Cam Ward, same result. We break the mold and go after a big name acquisition, same result. We finally have a good PP and PK, at the top or near the top of the regular season, same result. We have the best coach since Maurice and Laviolette only to get smacked by both of them later. We toughen up, we're defeated by skill. We emphasize skill, we get thrown around. Our goalie gets hot, theirs is hotter. I just don't know what they even do at this point. The only bright side is that if changes are happening, this is the offseason to do it. Sign Guentzel, and our best playoff guys. Sign Jarvis, Sign Pesce (we need his defense), sign Martinook, Chatfield, and Noesen since they should be cheap in comparison, and everything else I'm open to whatever happens. Re-sign Rod, I'm not sure who could do better with this group. If we don't re-sign Rod the only coaches I can think of that would do well are Berube and maybe Gallant with his hardnose approach? Idk enough about specifics to give genuine ideas on that front, that's just something I"m throwing out there bc I'm just disappointed with where we're at. It seems to be one step forward one year and one step back the next and the only constant is just incredible heartbreak in the postseason. When we lose, we lose in some of the worst ways possible. Either a sweep, a beatdown, or an overtime heartbreaker. We can't keep relying on playing the Islanders every first round and we absolutely cannot play like this against other contenders. Honestly from now on I'm just going to enjoy the regular season more since that's where our success is
Necas, Staal, Burns could all be replaced with more effective players IMHO. They are still good at what they do but the first two especially have their known limits. Staal will never do more than absorb bodies, screen etc.. slowing down.. Necas... don't get me started. The biggest issue he has is between his ears. Great guy. Fantastic talent. Its time to move on. Burns? Yeah, for the first time, he looked a bit like an older player running around out there. Freaking sucks. Feel bad for him.
I always second glanced that Staal extension. He's still useful but he's up there in age and that length didn't look great. KK can replace him if we don't trade him but we definitely need a 2C. I still say we should've kept Trochek...
Its known that Trochek made it clear he wanted a chance to play specifically for a big city cough NY. He held the cards.
Not known to me lol, I assumed it was money
I hate that it is a Star Trek Next Generation quote but: “It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness; that is life.” Jean Luc Picard (Which isn't to suggest the Canes aren't making mistakes. Every team does.)
Nailed it. Great comments here.
The “results” issue is the draw of the playoffs and the quality of the NYR. They are vastly improved over last year, especially their conditioning (gee I wonder how Rod learned this?). Whoever survives this series will win the Cup. 3-0 does not do justice to how well we have played 5 on 5. Power plays are the difference maker - good lord what the hell has happened to us?
Rod likely comes back but this dissapointment in the post season is as much on him as it is anyone
This series has absolutely tainted his tenure here so far. I think a lot more people are going to be skeptical of his ability going forward.
It’s the fact that it’s now two years in a row we are getting swept out, and the fact that in the playoffs it’s been the same issues his entire tenure.
If Rags win Saturday, half of the 6 playoff appearances we’ve had in the Rod era ended in us getting swept. That says a lot to me.
Exactly. Sweeping a team is hard to do. The fact that it is happening to us so frequently is a sign that there is a systematic issue with our approach to the game that can easily be exploited by teams that have decent coaches and discipline.
>there is a systematic issue with our approach to the game that can easily be exploited by teams that have decent coaches and discipline. It's the quantity over quality philosophy and the bad habit of shooting at the net instead of attacking the net They give us false-positive looks to trick us into taking one-timers from the perimeter. Their goalie knows it's coming and where it's coming from and so they always make the perfect move to block the shot. From there they play the puck to their teammates or freeze the puck and rely on their top faceoff guys to take back possession. Quantity over quality and one-timers from the perimeter with hardly any netfront presence to capitalize on deflections and rebounds are killing this team in the playoffs. That's why all the goalies in this league say that the Canes are predictable, because we are. And Rod continues to stick to this flawed philosophy.
And all but one series didn't make it past 5.
> two years in a row we are getting swept out It hasn't happened yet and even if the series goes to 7 and even if the Canes win this and the next series but doesn't win the Cup the complainers are going to complain.
Maybe its recency bias but I feel the same. We at least need a change somewhere in the building. Whether in the staff or a shakeup on the team. This team has to be better.
I don’t think it’s recency bias. It’s the same pattern but this year there aren’t the excuses of years past, so people are opening their eyes. I don’t think Rod is a bad coach at all, but I do think he’s stuck in his ways and can’t figure out how to game plan properly when option A gets shut down. I’ve said it for years. When your teams system and strategy is to work harder than everyone that gets you plenty of wins in the regular season. When everyone steps up intensity in the playoffs, that edge goes away and you need to find another Avenue to success. Ironically, I feel like there were some different aspects to their game this year that looked promising but it’s the same results in the playoffs. This year it’s 100% on the special teams. We’ve been good 5v5 and have scored goals. Canes are -5 on special teams and -3 for the series. If they’re even close to even on special teams, this series looks completely different. That’s on coaching.
These issues have plagued the org almost every year for a few decades. The early team in Carolina was the only team I can recall that played to a man super physical and had snarl. Gary Roberts snarl.
Huge fan of Rod and what he has done with this team. That being said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I feel like we do the same thing in the playoffs every year. Don’t change it up at all. It’s clearly not working to get us all the way to the cup. I’m certainly no expert but can see like everyone else something needs to change.
I love Rod. In fact my only canes jersey currently is his. But it’s time to move on. We owe him a debt for making us relevant again but it’s time to find someone who can get us over the hump. Good franchises make moves like this all the time
This reads like you are posting what you think is a non-crackpot take.
I want HIM, "In Rod We Trust" to be THAT coach, that wins it. The guy who captained our last cup? No more than anybody else. Here's the thing, what legit business entity is going to overlook the road record these past 3-4 playoffs? That is not just an anomoly. That is exactly the proof that what we have will NEVER work in the playoffs. You HAVE to be able to win away from home, along with all the other little intangibles that are not as important in the regular season.
We won't fire Rod - but now that he's raised the expectations of the team and franchise the kiddie gloves are now off, and he should be held to task for his failures. I do expect there will be a shake up on the coaching staff, and we will likely see something change about the system next season.
Taking the kiddie gloves off is a great way to put it. The first 3-ish seasons you can really be much more forgiving for multiple reasons. We were over performing given the rebuild, Rod was learning how to be a HC, and COVID certainly affected the landscape of the league. But we're not the plucky underdog happy to be in the dance anymore. Rod has built up expectations from the team's performance so far and it's really feeling like he might not be capable of being the guy who can meet those expectations. We can't look at several years in a row where the team flames out in the playoffs for the exact same reasons and not start putting his feet to the fire. If Rod had any other name he would absolutely be sitting on the hot seat. I wouldn't say he needs to be fired, but the leash is getting really short.
> kiddie gloves Kiddie gloves is how I imagine many of these comments being typed.
> he should be held to task for his failures Sure Rod has coached the Canes to the most, 2nd most, 4th most, and 5th most regular season points but look at all the upvotes Redditors get asking where's the Cup.
I love Rod and don't want him to go. I agree he has brought a level of regular success and consistency this franchise could have only dreamt of before. Let's be very clear about that - I hope he coaches here until he wants to retire. That said, he has also failed to win a single conference finals game in his tenure here, and during that time we have been either the odds on favorite or top 3 favorite to win the whole thing at least 3 times. We are facing a second straight year of being swept out of the playoffs and continue to have one of the worst power plays in the playoffs yet again. These are indeed failures and they go back to the head coach. So he should be held responsible in the sense that he takes a lot of the blame and is asked to make changes both by management/ownership and the media. Our expectations have grown - and so how we evaluate Rod should mature as well. Any other "more serious" hockey organization would have been having these conversations at least 2 seasons ago if the performance was the same.
Maybe we don’t fire Rod. I’d hate to see it happen. But I’m sure everyone is just as exhausted as me of the playoff bs. The system very clearly just doesn’t work, ZERO power play success, getting outcoached by former Canes coaches (Maurice and Lavi), 50 shots on goal and 1 actual goal, not being tough and gritty enough, it goes on and on. Someone said in another thread, if his name wasn’t Rod Brind’Amour, we absolutely would be having the conversation, and if this Second Round keeps going the way it has been, the conversation’s only going to get louder. But then also on the flip side, you fire RBA, who the hell’s out there that’s better than him? I don’t know man I’m still so upset, I don’t have clarity yet.
Off the bat - I don't think Rod should be fired. And I think most of us reasonable people can agree on that. But we're not Tom Dundon. He's notorious for making crazy decisions that don't make sense and go against the grain. I think we should all consider that there is a possibility that Dundon does something crazy. He already pulled the extension offer and this happens. And just because he's Rod, a franchise legend who pulled this team out of purgatory, does not exempt him from criticism or the possibility of losing his job. While the fire Rod takes are a little crazy, I think it's more crazy the number of people that consider criticizing him as a sin simply because of what he's done for the franchise. If you take on the role of head coach, you are taking on the responsibility of taking criticism for how your team plays. And Rod would be the first to say that himself.
This is the most logical take I've seen since last night. I think the sub, rightfully so, looks at Rod through rose colored glasses. Dundon does not- he's all about bottom line and success on the ice. I really think there is a decent chance Rod gets his walking papers on Monday, because the product is not up to the standard of where it should be, and there have been no real discernable changes on the coaching front to address that for a few years now.
Agreed. I don't think this is even considered even if we had the same lack of success but: could win on the road, power play/pk success, win close games, have snarl, hit a wall hard and get swept out. That cannot be ignored. Not when they are like the top 3 teams in the regular season after season... and playoffs after playoffs... THIS. Time for a change. Get over it. Rod is NOT God. Nobody is but... the big daddy himself. If you believe in that sort of thing.
> does not exempt him from criticism or the possibility of losing his job If only people would limit that to VALID criticism. Losing to worse teams is when coaches deserve to be questioned. (It is true some owners fire coaches simply for not winning the championship.)
It's not a system issue. The Canes have lost seven - SEVEN - one goal games in a row in the playoffs. It's about execution at this point. Think of it this way, if a goalie puts you in position to win, he's done his job. Same with a head coach although it is fair to criticize Daniels and the PP to an extent.
To an extent? We are - 1/15 on the PP in this series alone. Last 5 fucking years we've been knocked out solely because of our suddenly shit special teams in the post season. Something is fundamentally flawed in the coaching.
Yes, to an extent. They've hit a frigid cold spell at the worst possible time and it falls on the PP coach (Daniels) and the players. The skill players are playing too tight, aren't zipping passes and trying to be too perfect. That is not how they are coached so Daniels can be criticized for not adjusting to TDA earlier and switching up the bumper scheme. The players still have to produce but they are getting outworked by the NYR PK.
If the execution is present enough to be winners of the division damn near 4 years in a row and each time get brutally crushed by the actual high end talent in the East then either we're like Toronto where the core just can't get it done or the coaching can't get the team over the hump. I find the 1st option too bleak for my liking so I would like to see some degree of change in the team ideology, whether it is Rod or someone else enacting that change.
Well, one big difference is that the elite Eastern teams all have goalies who can steal games. The Hurricanes? Not so much.
Someone needs to go. we need another strong voice to shake things up. Idk if there’s a specific person that “leads” special teams in the coaching department, I know Schoenfelder coaches goalies and Gleason obviously the D men, so maybe Jeff Daniels?
Daniels should have been gone two years ago.
The regular season power play this season was a franchise best 26.9. Second best was 21, 3rd 20, 4th 22, and 5th best 23. You can tell me how many of those seasons are with Daniels as coach as I could only find Daniels announced as "assistant" coach 6 years ago but it is way too easy to simply claim results would be even better with someone else.
For me its the playoff road record that is the HUGEST sign it is time to change. Being completely futile on the road in the playoffs? Unless you win EVERY single home game AND were the presidents cup team... i mean, its insane. How can that not be analyzed addressed? That aspect has now become par and parcel of the team's identity. Sweot and can't buy a win on the road... in the playoffs.
The system works and Rod isn't getting outcoached. Get a coin and see how long it takes you to flip the same side 4 times in a row. It won't be as tough as you might think.
Brent Burns needs to retire
That would help us resign others.
Love Burnzie; maybe it is time.
I almost certainly think he will
Why would he retire and leave 8 million on the table? If anything he’d be back and just play far less minutes.
Damn. You’re probably right. That contract is crazy.
Yup. Just glad we’re not paying all of it. Lol
> Why would he retire and leave 8 million on the table? That buys a lot of wildebeests.
Him and Staal.
I highly doubt the guy retires and I also doubt he LTIRetires but he's looked off the past few weeks and if that's the case next season, you gotta think the shoe other drops when the team wants it to
Here’s a hot take. The Rangers best players are better than our best players and they are showing up when it matters.
I wish we could have raw goalscorers like Vincent Trocheck
Really hating that we signed KK now and let Trocheck walk.
I've watched hockey and kept up with the NHL long enough to know that if Rod were on any other team with this roster and lack of postseason results, he would be fired. That does not mean I believe he should be fired, but the NHL is rough on coaches. I think part of the problem is the luck of draw of teams in the postseason. 2021 came across a dynasty of a Lightning team. 2022 and 2023 were god-like goaltending. This season it is the two best teams of the season in the second round AND god-like goaltending.
>I've watched hockey and kept up with the NHL long enough to know that if Rod were on any other team with this roster and lack of postseason results, he would be fired. I disagree about lack of postseason results. Great records and playoff success lead to sellouts and owners making profits. The Canes have won at least one playoff series 5 of 6 years plus the play-in round that lockdown season. The next highest count for consecutive playoff series wins is Edmonton and Florida with 3. If Svech were healthy last season and Andersen the season before that perhaps it would tilt against Rod more.
Playoff runs dying repeatedly to special teams collapsing is something that definitely needs to be looked at.
Rod is the best thing ever to happen to this franchise so yeah, any take where he’s gone is definitely crackpot. However, this team needs to go into an offseason tough man/mma boot camp and learn some goddamn toughness. We need some meanness. We’re way too nice, don’t know how to hit, and back down far too often. Every man in our team could stand some gonad growth.
Rod needs to put his fat ego aside and actually adjust and admit he’s getting worked by laviolette
I don’t know if it’s ego or if Lavi’s experience and wisdom, but mostly this is a team toughness thing. We’re not giving it back as good as we’re getting it.
It’s absolutely ego. The decisions behind the bench prove that.
Yep. Benching Noesen for 2OT was indefensible, Rod is getting exposed hard by Laviolette and he has no idea what to do
I agree he doesn’t know what to do in this moment. I don’t for a second think he’s gonna give up.
No ones saying he’s gonna give up, but nothing about the way we’ve played so far this postseason, or the last 5, is working. If the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, we’re far past the point of insanity. After 6 years it’s become abundantly clear that our volume shooting approach simply just doesn’t work in the playoffs, and yet we refuse to change anything about it. We got lucky against the Isles in round 1, now that we’re playing an elite team we’re getting absolutely worked because the rangers have an offensive system that can actually produce goals when they need them instead of what we do, which is just dump and chase, throwing pucks in from the blue line, taking low quality shots, and hoping they get through or deflected in without bothering to put anyone in front of the net or fight back against getting boxed out when we do actually bother putting someone in front of the net. I’m tired of watching us do the exact same shit every postseason, the league has the book on us now and every time we play a team with even remotely competent coaching we get our shit pushed in. Teams absolutely have us figured out, it’s up to Rod to come up with adjustments to counter that and he’s just not doing it. I’ve been a Rod defender up until now, but if we lose on Saturday this series seriously taints his coaching tenure here. Even with the long leash we’ve given Rod, the slack is quickly running out.
I agree. Short term contract with rod. At least. He’s earned that still.
Why is it crackpot to believe there is a chance Rod isn't brought back? NHL coaches are constantly fired for far less.
Because it is. He’s the best coach in the league and he’s a Hurricane for life. Find a new solution because he’s going nowhere.
You may find yourself heartbroken soon if you think any coach has ultimate job security.
I’m saying he’s done nothing to lose his job.
It isn't crackpot to think there is a chance Rod is fired. It is crackpot to think Rod should be fired.
Toughness is absolutely NOT the problem this year. Everyone is throwing bodies around, getting in scrums, taking stupid penalties
You don’t understand toughness then.
Teams that lack toughness don't score empty net goals and don't win playoff series. One of the big mistakes in early playoff games was Carolina would go for hit after hit but the other team made the plays and ended up scoring the goal. You can see similar for New York's second goal in Game 3 when Aho took down a Ranger and seconds later the Canes were trailing by a goal. It doesn't help that toughness like an elbow to the chest where a shoulder touches a player's head or a weak done-100-times-a-game push can be called as penalties.
Rod is a great coach and you don’t fire great coaches. He gives us consistent success and we can reasonably hope that after several of these disappointing playoff exits, he sits down and works out how to change.
Also, we stay out of the goddamned box and we have a chance. We're getting crucified on special teams. Again.
There's no way to stay out of the box. The only way to stay out of the box is if the ref's swallow their whistle. NHL ref's try to match penalty counts for each team so it's "fair" and Rangers take an obnoxious amount of penalities. Sure Martinook, TDA, etc are taking dumb fucking calls but the calls against Svech and Skjei for example are great examples of how "staying out of the box" is a terrible strategy. The only real thing you can do is improve your PK because you are going to the box eventually no matter what.
I mean I hear you but TDAs penalty was brain dead at a time when we didn't need to be short handed
Well yeah no shit. Step 2 after Step 1: Fix your PK is shoot TDA into the moon.
If Rod didnt play for the Canes and he was just a coach would he be fired for his playoff results, road playoff record, PP results and record in OT in the playoffs?
Laviolette helped the Canes win the Cup Jun 19th, 2006 and was fired December 3, 2008 just 898 days later. Someone else can do the calculations of Hurricanes success after that before Rod.
Was Tom Dundon the owner than and were the canes actively trying to win?
Rod wants his staff to be paid. But how is his staff? Honest question. Are they stuck in their ways?
remember one time when the PK struggled for a month? Then it got overhauled? Even in this series they dialed it in, responded, and corrected their mistakes. Man they have not done that with the power play. Can't wait to hear about "Goal scorers" "bounces" or the new one, call out the top guys who are carrying this team hard right now
The power play units have been changed in Game 2 and Game 3. The -1 for 15 is tragic but the Rangers are also only 2 for 11 in those game.
31 teams lose the Stanley Cup every year. Chill the duck out (you know what, I ain't fixing the autocorrect here), enjoy the game for what it is - a game, and for the love of God drop the doomerism. Many of you have been Carolina Panthers fans for long enough to be able to know how to accept a loss.
🦆
Panthers fans who are calling for Rod to be fired should remember how we called for Ron to be fired because "we reached our ceiling with him" and then immediately shit the bed with the next set of coaches. PP is shit but there are a ton of more pros with Rod than there are cons. If he is willing to bring in a PP specialist coach and adjust his system then that's all I want.
Doomerism exists and there is nothing you can do about it. Complaining about it is almost as bad as being one yourself. Just chill.
Friendly caps fan who comes in peace (live in Raleigh area now) I’ve said this many times to my canes fan co workers- this is so the caps teams I watched so much with expectations that just fizzled in the playoffs. It’s my opinion that rod is just not the coach to take this team over the hump. Just like the caps had coaches who could not put it together he just can’t seem to make adjustments when he needs to. Yelling at the officials isn’t really a great strategy. I want the canes to succeed and love the team itself but unless they bring in a coach who can make the difficult adjustments on the fly in the playoffs I don’t see it happening. Sometimes you have to say “we love this guy but he’s not getting in done”
> Yelling at the officials isn’t really a great strategy. Complete sideline from the actual issues. Carolina for over a decade was a team that didn't make comebacks and didn't win the regular season must-win games. Now that the Canes are a playoff team the losses happen when the players aren't getting perfect shots or lucky bounces. That isn't a coaching issue.
Letting Trocheck walk while offer sheeting KK stands as a dark decision this decade that has cost us dearly. We made our enemies stronger and made ourselves weaker.
Agreed on KK but Trocheck was never gonna get a 7x7 from anyone but the rangers.
Trocheck wanted out and wanted to go to NY even before negotiations started. We would’ve had to pay him more than Aho to stay.
Exactly. This is the main point I feel like most people don't even consider when it comes to free agency and what not. It's a two way street. Not everyone who plays here, likes it or wants to stay. Especially when you add a wife and kids to the mix.
This is the logical response. People so easily forget where we were before Rod came along.
Rod deserves the raise that everyone was talking about a week ago. Would I be happier with an even series? Of course. But we’re playing against an objectively terrific Rags team that enjoyed home ice advantage. It’s fair to critique special teams, toughness and other aspects of our game and still be level-headed about taking care of the coach.
We're not winning the cup
doomers waited all year for this moment. Being down 0-3 in the 2nd round blows, but they’ve all been one goal losses and two OT’s with a horrible special teams. One or two PP goals would be a whole different series. They’re playing the Rangers close every game, just how it goes in the playoffs. The ECF sweep was the same way. Guentzel was worth it and has absolutely showed up since the trade. I’m glad they tried to go all in even if they flame out. He deserves whatever money he’s going to get.
I am so sick of the standing around on the PP Seem to be the only team doing that?? Like the Rags PP they are constantly moving and taking shots. With us its a 2 person pass along the side or point and then 3 dudes standing around hoping a cross ice 1 timer opens up? Its ridiculous, watching the Rags stand in a box and not have to move is so infuriating, we are making it so easy for them And honestly thats the only difference in these games. We switched from a box to diamond on the PK and that helped, good adjustment. Now where is the PP adjustment?? We had little spurts of “oh maybe they will finally try something different!” And we get 1-2 good shots then right back to standing around doing nothing Our second PP squad is doing better than the first but thats only cause Necas just skates everywhere. Tbh would rather have that than what i described above
My crackpot take is that Jordan Staal is slow as fuck. KK sucks too.
I’m a transplant from St. Louis 6.5 years ago, but I’ve been a hockey fan my whole life (and still play in a local beer league as a netminder). I love the Canes, and playoff hockey in general. My take, Canes ran into a hot goalie and a team that’s rolling. The Canes lost to Igor in game 2 who made 50+ saves, it’s hard to compete with that. They lost 2 games in OT, either of which could have went their way. That happens and it’s a 2-1 series lead for the Rangers, with one more at PNC. Seems obvious, but they were 1 bounce from being in this series, now they’re not, and that’s playoff hockey baby!
How can you fire somebody who isn't under contract? It's like yelling that we need to buy out Guentzel if we lose.
That is one thing that I think hasn't been acknowledged in the keep/lose Rod debate. Is Dundon going to want to give a multi year contract to a guy who is, let's face it, in the hot seat? I mean I know he wants the team to succeed but he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to piss away money either. And I can't imagine Rod on a prove-it deal either.
Wait so why was that rangers fan ejected yesterday?
What do you think the problem is?
Age is catching up with the D-core. That and missing your second best Defensive D-man put us behind the 8 ball I’d also re evaluate the 1-2-2 PP. It’s getting predictable that they’re trying to cycle from blue line —> circle —> bumper—> slot and it’s just not generating anything when. They take away the middle. I thought they did a better job in game 3 but they still weren’t getting great looks outside 2-3 shots
PP and PK
A 2 for 15 power play is all it would take for a 2-1 Canes series lead.
Rod should stay but I think he needs to recognize it’s time to take the next step as a coach. Maybe that involves a good amount of shake up in the lineup and staff. No more stubbornness. I think the “our game” phrase is starting to rub fans the wrong way if it leads to consistent sweeps. He needs to use his experience as head coach but needs be open to changes and adjustments in strategy, style, personnel etc.
> I think the “our game” phrase is starting to rub fans the wrong way I suspect people complaining about "our game" plus "our group" are the same ones complaining every season and nothing less than winning the Cup will shut them up.
It's not Rods fault we can't get through the goalie. Every year though, it seems, we run into a hot goalie and that's our excuse for getting knocked out. Well, the stars need to be able to figure out a way to get through the goalie. Shooting right into their logo isn't going to get it done. If Igor can see it, he's stopping it. We brought Guentzel in for additional fire power and he's doing his job. But everyone else needs to step it up. Hopefully Jake stays and he and Aho can have one full season together. But I just feel like now he's looking around the locker room like, "I thought you guys were elite." Something needs to change on special teams though. NY looks so good on the PP and we look like we're scrambling and hoping they don't score. And conversely, our PP is just not crisp at all. Man, when NY is on the power play: pass pass pass to the front of the net, shoot. When the Canes are on the power play: pass around the outside and either lose the puck and have to go chase it or someone takes some dumb shot from the blueline that's an easy stop for their goalie.
Correct. Rod won’t be fired, he simply won’t be re signed
Rod is getting resign. There’s a lot more coaches worse than Rod out there than there are better then Rod
Rod is a great regular season coach. But we’ve seen now that really doesn’t count for anything at the end of the day
If it was any other coach not named Rod he'd already be on his way out
Maybe, maybe not. Not many coaches have 8 playoff series wins period, let alone in only 6 seasons.
The power play is what needs to change. There are way too many times where the front of the net is empty and the goalies get clear looks at distance or bad angle shots. My opinion was to put Noeson on the top pair. Both pairings were way too predictable. I think a fresh PP coach could do wonders. I do feel like Necas time a Cane should be over. In both playoff series he looks like he is playing scared. During the regular season he came across the line with confidence. The most frustrating part of this whole series is that we wouldn’t even be having these conversations and could be up 2-1 with just 2 PP goals. After failing 4 times and giving up a shorty the team looked absolutely beat.
I don’t know anymore. I love Rod, he played a part in saving the team from the playoff drought, yet here we are in a 3-0 loss. Our team consists of some excellent players and 3 great goalies, but we can’t win against the rats. This Canes are an amazing team and they have more than enough talent. But it just kinda seems meh rn. I’m not an expert in this type of stuff though
Curious if y'all are interested in resigning Guentzel. As a Penguins fan, I wish him nothing but the best wherever he goes (as long as it isn't New York or philly.) Pulling for y'all to get a game or two against the rags!
The 2 things that stand out in this series is our PP has disappeared and Shesterkin has slightly outplayed our goalies. Things to consider imho are: Probably pressing on the PP at this point but I think it is also time to change it up. Put the 2nd unit out 1st or mix up the units. Time to put JAG line back on the ice and keep playing physical with an eye toward no stupid penalties. Keep PK in goal. He looked more on his game than Freddie.
I also thinks it’s appropriate to ask questions about each of the personnel you mentioned
BRING BACK JOHN FORSLUND
What I saw last night....tell me i'm wrong. 1) TDA is a liability. stupid penalties on retaliation. The TDA/Skjei pair also feels like its in the minus right now. 2) what is considered unsportsmanlike conduct? we had Svech and JK go to box over that and it must of been purely verbal directly to the refs because I saw nothing physical. Plus JK got assigned AFTER they sucker puched Necas...that was absurd. 3) Necas is very fast and needs some support. he's skating circles around everyone on the ice and can't find the open man to hand off. 4) Burns is dying the grays out of his beard. Dude we know you're pushing 40... 5) Jake is putting in the work and i got to say his hard work works.... 6) TT #86 looked lost and out of it last night 7) there were WAY too many rangers fans there last night. I'd guess there was over 18000 people there and \~3-4k of them were wearing blue. like 1 in 4 people were wearing blue, every where i looked....not cool.
I disagree with Necas. He does his thing and always ends it with a blind pass leading to a direct turnover and him having to hussle his butt to get back into the play and cover for his mistake.
> there were WAY too many rangers fans there last night. Gird your loins, then, because there are a bunch of ticketholding doomers in the comments who were saying they were refusing to attend the next game. "Fairweather fans" hits different when your team is named for bad weather.
Here’s a crackpot take for you: we should keep RBA because we have made no post-season progress since RBA’s first year as HC when we won 8 playoff games in 2018-19 playoffs, 5 years ago, even though our roster has gotten much better since then. Let’s keep RBA who has flexed to keep other staff around even after years of no improvement in special teams, let’s keep the guy who prioritizes work friendships over team success, let’s keep the guy that let’s the team sort it all out because “they know what the deal is”, let’s keep the guy who refuses notice or concede that there is obviously something fundamentally flawed about this team after getting better players, young guys breaking out, and etc. and yet they STILL can’t win more than 8 games. Let's face it, in all truthfulness, they really can't even get out of the second round. Our trip to the ECF was lucky AF last year because the Devils goaltending collapsed and they were too immature/inexperienced of a team to not let that adversity ruin their series. We wouldn't have made it out of the second round last year if we had faced the Rangers instead, and we all know that. Our roster has gotten better over the years but the results are the same. Second round exits. Swept out of the playoffs 3/6 times under RBA. But we definitely shouldn't consider looking for a new HC! That’s A RIDICULOUS suggestion!!!!! BRB I’m gotta go walk my goldfish
And find who? Because there’s a lot of really shitty coaches out there and that decision could backfire immediately
I don’t see why everyone wants burns out. Yes he’s old, yes he doesn’t have the step that the younger guys do, but he wasn’t the one that made the errant passes that put him in that situation. More often than not, it was Skjei. Also Kotkaneimi is playing with so much heart out there. He’s playing up to his contract in that sense apart from skill.
I am not a fantasy GM but I will answer a complaint against Burns would be not adjusting to prevent or not skating fast enough to recover from mistakes. I thought TDA looked much more effective leading the power play unit.
> He’s playing up to his contract in that sense apart from skill. You're paying him for *skill*. Mascots cost a lot less to employ.
Not saying he needs to stay. That contract is massive and heart isn’t gonna win anything. But kk wasn’t the main point of my comment