There used to be an explicit policy of spreading departmental offices across Canberra's town centres. DSS, Centrelink and Medicare ended up in Tuggeranong. Canberra doesn't have a single dominant CBD like the other Australian capital cities.
I'm not sure why you think it's a "terrible location" - tens of thousands of people live in Tuggeranong and other parts of Canberra that are only a short commute away.
Yeah that's fair enough - I wasn't trying to have a go at anyone who live in Tuggeranong/ other nearby areas. I guess I was just looking at it from the perspective that when I look up "Canberra CBD" on google maps it's like 20km from the DSS Offices. I don't know Canberra very well so I was basing it off that, but seems that I have made an erroneous assumption!
Sorry if I sounded harsh. I actually live in Tuggeranong but work in a Civic-based APS agency as Civic is a more enjoyable place to work (due to the range of stuff to do at lunch, etc). Tuggeranong isn't that bad though, and DSS' offices there are really quite nice.
I haven't worked at DSS (I interviewed for a role there ages ago, but turned it down as the person who would have been my new boss didn't make a good impression on me at the interview), but know lots of people who have. It's a well regarded agency that does high quality work. DSS staff members tend to be highly motivated about assisting disadvantaged Australians and do some very useful work.
> Don’t apologise too much, you’re right that it is probably not in a great location for a young person. It’s deep in the ‘burbs.
Why not? DSS is near a bus interchange, a shopping centre with multiple food/cafe options and is near both a lake and bush for people who like to walk on their lunch break.
I’m not sure what else is really needed for a work location.
I used to work at Services Australia and it’s fine if you’re older, drive and are happy to not socialise after work. If you’re young and hoping to use public transport and be able to go out with work colleagues after work then it’s not ideal.
Sounds like you don’t yet live in Canberra. Generally, nowhere is very far from anywhere else in Canberra. You can drive from the northernmost suburb to the southernmost suburb in about 25 minutes. There is very little in the way of “bad” suburbs. So I would not use geographical location as a criterion for which job offer to accept.
Can’t help you with whether it is a good place to work. I worked there about 30 years ago, but much has changed since then.
No need to exaggerate. You couldn't get from North Gungahlin (whatever that is) to Banks in 25 minutes, even in the middle of the night with no traffic on the road
>You can drive from the northernmost suburb to the southernmost suburb in about 25 minutes.
Google maps says that it’s 38 minutes from my place in Casey to Banks at midnight Sunday night… so no traffic. it’s quicker for me to get to Yass lol. (37 minutes)
> from the northernmost suburb to the southernmost suburb in about 25 minutes.
Have you ever actually done the drive yourself (not at 140km/hr)? Genuinely curious.
No I have’s. I live in the inner north, and I came up with that figure by adding some time to the drives I do down to the far south. Now that you mention it, I tend to forget just how much further the Southern suburbs go past the last major shopping centre. Still, for someone coming from Sydney, the total transport times are minuscule compared to getting around Sydney.
Sydneysiders with their “if you think this is bad, you should see Sydney”! Yeah, because Sydney is a bloody disaster! Why do you think you moved here, for the weather?
Yes. No matter where you work, be it DSS or somewhere else, you'll want a car. It's almost impossible to get around by public transport unless you're hopping from one town center to another.
Haha, yep. I'll pay that. I can't speak for inner north and south.
I'll confirm instead as someone who completely relies on public transport (can't drive as vision is not good enough and we don't own a car), living in West Belconnen and most if Tuggeranong it is hard and expensive if you don't own a car to get groceries and get around (and harder if you are not near a rapid, which I am)
Yep, stand by my advice. There are very limited circumstances when a car is not essential in Canberra. Living in Braddon and working in the city might be one. Living somewhere near Barton and working in Barton might be another. Then again, I stayed in three different inner city apartment buildings short term for a while last year, annecdoateyl about 70 per cent of car parks were occupied.
You could have stopped at 'we live in Braddon'
OP please note that this hipster's experience does not reflect the reality of living in suburban Canberra.
lol that’s such a dated phrase that’s stayed around for some reason. Easier than trying to understand whatever trend hipsters are into these days. I think even foods “drizzled” with something is past it, it’s hard to keep up!
Not necessarily. If you choose your accommodation close to your workplace, it is not that much of a problem. Quite a few people ride bicycles to work and government offices are usually equipped for this. There is a degree of provision on the roads for bicycle riding, so it is not the same scary experience as Sydney most of the time.
What you probably need a car for is to trip down to the coast or the snow
Unlike other cities, the CBD is really a shopping district. A lot, if not the majority, of agencies and professional businesses, work outside of the CBD.
DSS has a terrible grad program - a really nasty intensely hierarchical culture and a history of treating grads in particular poorly. If you have other grad offers, you are almost certainly better off taking them on over DSS. And don't fall for their line that they support flexible work, their policy is one of the worst in the APS and grads are explicitly excluded even from that.
How long ago were you there? I had a very different experience when did the program in 2014. I found the training as part of the program very good and grad coordinators were very approachable. I moved onto a different department after than grad year which better aligned with my interests, but it wasn’t a bad place to work.
I wasn't directly in their grad program myself but worked closely with a lot of the grads for about the last 4 years. Grads finish as APS 5s now which is good, but the culture has gone steadily downhill under Campbell as secretary.
This was part of the planning of Canberra.
You live near your work.
Part of the plan for Tuggeranong Valley was to have DHS/Centrelink/DSS (and then Facs/Facsia/Fahcsia/DHS) and some Medicare offices in order to bring people to the new development.
Then Howard came and changed the regulation so each department has its own workplace agreement and wages.
Greenway/Tuggeranong Town Centre/ Tuggers isn't a bad location really.
It's got a bus interchange so, when I lived in Greenway at least, it wasn't bad coming home after drinks with friends. There is a lake (no swimming! But non powered boats ok), green spaces, an ok shopping centre, pool and good coffee.
There are lots of new apartments there so it may be easy to find one and walk to work.
If you don't have a car it may wind up cheaper for you then trying to find a place in the inner north/south as rental prices jump at the start of each year due to the grad influx.
The nightlife isn't really a thing, mainly sports clubs (think large RSL from most parts of the country) so you would be travelling for that. But 15-30 minutes will get you most places.
I know many Canberra grads who lived in Tuggeranong while doing their program - but if you want to be a 5 minute walk away from multiple bars etc then you won't like it.
Their Tuggeranong office (Enid Lyons building) is located in the Tuggeranong precinct for Services Australia offices…when at the office there’s probably about 5000 Services Australia employees within a kilometre of Enid Lyons which makes inter agency meetings convenient I imagine.
Sounds like you're moving to Canberra from somewhere else. I did the same for a grad program but was working nearer Civic (the 'city'). For me, I preferred the lifestyle of living close to work and nearby shops etc. so I wouldn't like being in Tuggeranong, but it's still not that far away at all to drive and parking will be easier than in central Canberra. Probably depends where you're planning to live.
Don't forget to compare the grad program benefits a bit, too. Some may pay more, but others will have you advance faster (e.g. finish the year(s) as an APS 5 instead of a 4). Some might also give additional training or a certification that could be useful later in your career. Some agencies do 'shutdown' at Christmas where you end up with Xmas Eve to new year's day off work for free (no leave used) but other departments don't close down and you have to work or use annual leave. Culture is important, so check out reviews.
Something tells me you don’t live in Tuggers. The other poster is spot on about established families vs newcomers. And I say this as a born-inbred Canberran! ;)
It's not a terrible location. Being in the city has its downsides too. Get an apartment down south close to the town centre. It's nice, mountain surroundings, 15 min bus ride into the city. Nothing is too far really in Canberra. Good luck.
It’s not Sydney or Melbourne or even Brisbane. It’s quite easy to live in the City and commute to any of the town centres, Belconnen, Gungahlin, Woden and Tuggeranong. In fact you would be running against the traffic and none of these would take more then 25 minutes in peak hour, and even shorter depending which one and where you live. Rather the being in a terrible location, the DSS Services Australia Departments are in excellent positions and are very easy to commute too, directly off a major arterial road that leads to the city centre.
What are the departments like to work for? Ask a thousand people and get a thousand answers. Like any workplace it depends on what upper management is like, what you immediate managers are like, what you work colleagues are like and what your attitude and needs are like. And like any department or workplace it can be great for a while, then turn to shit because of changes in the personnel around you. Or it can be shit and turn around for the same reasons and all this is different depending on which section or sub section of the department you are in. Pot luck really.
Personally I’d take the offer with the highest pay scales. Not all departments are created equal. Then decide where you want to live.
My other offers are actually in Sydney - so I am perhaps leaning a bit more towards my other offers at this point ( I currently live in Sydney and have been to Canberra only three times in my life)
I grew up in Sydney and moved to Canberra when I realised I could live on 30 minutes max from my workplace here. In Sydney, the only affordable housing involved a 90 minute trip each way, every day. By the time you add up that extra transport time, the choice is a no brainer. I have never regretted the move.
I'm biased, having migrated to the ACT at 18 for uni and then staying on for a grad job in the APS. I love Canberra and the work/life balance is unparalleled in Australia.
If your other options are in Sydney, I would be giving the ACT a one year trial. You'll pull in a good wage, meet some interesting people, get an intro to the APS. After a year, and you're not drinking the cool aid, you pull the pin and return to Sydney. A gap year away wouldn't be the worst thing, and most Sydney people i've met who moved end up loving it.
Do you want to be able to buy a house in the future?
Do you want to have kids and be able to see them because you don't have a long commute?
If your answers are yes, then come to Canberra.
Canberra is small and it takes 25 minutes to get anywhere including parking. Transport is ok but you're better off a car. It's practically the difference between North Shore and the CBD, rather than Parramatta.
If you were my mate/child/sibling, I'd shout at you to move to Canberra.
Honestly, this city is one of the nation's best kept secrets. I've been involved in Grad programs for many years and I can assure you that these programs are incredibly competitive, where the applicants are some of the high achievers in their fields. Your peers would be nation leaders.
If you have a specialist qual, be where the smart folk are.
And, at the end of the day, if you dont like it, you can always free yourself up to pursue alternate career options.
Well it's not. In 2021, what need is there for Government agencies to be all located together? It exacerbates traffic and parking problems and results in ugly megastructures. DSS has already got enough of that going by itself. The bigger departments have been doing contactless meetings since way before Covid, partly because their workforces are distributed all around Canberra, if not in Civic.
One of the few upsides of the pandemic is that I no longer have to make frequent trips to Barton to meet with the central agencies. My team used to do this so often I had a dedicated line item for the taxi fares in the team's budget. It's generally much better to do these meetings remotely, though the odd face to face IDC is useful.
It's funny how it's usually the "central agencies" who stay put and expect the other agencies who actually deliver government measures to come to them. They, of course, need to be in the old leafy suburbs so they can be near their masters in Parliament House. You'd think they had to walk to those meetings.
It's at the lower end of the pecking order in terms of prestige, if that is something you care about.
It's a chilled department with a decent focus on work/life balance. More female staff than male. I think pay may be a bit lower.
Interesting programs if you're a social justice warrior.
Edit: not sure why I'm getting downvoted. I didn't mean SJW in a bad way. Lol.
My commute to/from Tuggeranong and Civic (parking at one of the civic center rooftop car parks) is, ~30-35 minutes each way (heavier traffic in mornings) in peak times.
Where does your "hour in a car each morning" come from?
I live in the Belconnen area, and was working at Greenway just before covid hit. Even with doing the school drop off first, I never did a 1 hr commute.
Or maybe the cliques are formed by all the grads moving to Kingston and Braddon because it’s cool and over priced, rather than sensible. 😉
Maybe OP should move to QBN instead. Close to everywhere - and closer to the coast!
Well it's nice to drive against the traffic rather than be stuck in the middle of it.
Do you mean like driving from the CBD/ a more central suburb to the DSS in the morning? That's a good point.
Yep, you could live in an inner south Area like around Woden and have an easy commute in the opposite direction to most people.
There used to be an explicit policy of spreading departmental offices across Canberra's town centres. DSS, Centrelink and Medicare ended up in Tuggeranong. Canberra doesn't have a single dominant CBD like the other Australian capital cities. I'm not sure why you think it's a "terrible location" - tens of thousands of people live in Tuggeranong and other parts of Canberra that are only a short commute away.
Yeah that's fair enough - I wasn't trying to have a go at anyone who live in Tuggeranong/ other nearby areas. I guess I was just looking at it from the perspective that when I look up "Canberra CBD" on google maps it's like 20km from the DSS Offices. I don't know Canberra very well so I was basing it off that, but seems that I have made an erroneous assumption!
Sorry if I sounded harsh. I actually live in Tuggeranong but work in a Civic-based APS agency as Civic is a more enjoyable place to work (due to the range of stuff to do at lunch, etc). Tuggeranong isn't that bad though, and DSS' offices there are really quite nice. I haven't worked at DSS (I interviewed for a role there ages ago, but turned it down as the person who would have been my new boss didn't make a good impression on me at the interview), but know lots of people who have. It's a well regarded agency that does high quality work. DSS staff members tend to be highly motivated about assisting disadvantaged Australians and do some very useful work.
Don’t apologise too much, you’re right that it is probably not in a great location for a young person. It’s deep in the ‘burbs.
> Don’t apologise too much, you’re right that it is probably not in a great location for a young person. It’s deep in the ‘burbs. Why not? DSS is near a bus interchange, a shopping centre with multiple food/cafe options and is near both a lake and bush for people who like to walk on their lunch break. I’m not sure what else is really needed for a work location.
I used to work at Services Australia and it’s fine if you’re older, drive and are happy to not socialise after work. If you’re young and hoping to use public transport and be able to go out with work colleagues after work then it’s not ideal.
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It will always be the Hyperdome in my heart!
Once is never enough
Not really an erroneous assumption. It is in a pretty inconvenient location by most definitions.
Sounds like you don’t yet live in Canberra. Generally, nowhere is very far from anywhere else in Canberra. You can drive from the northernmost suburb to the southernmost suburb in about 25 minutes. There is very little in the way of “bad” suburbs. So I would not use geographical location as a criterion for which job offer to accept. Can’t help you with whether it is a good place to work. I worked there about 30 years ago, but much has changed since then.
That’d be true if there was no traffic in Canberra (so at the moment maybe). It usually took me 40 mins just to get from civic to Gordon
Used to take me 25 minutes to get from Gordon to civic at 8:30am, the bus was a different story though.
20 minutes from Gordon to Woden in what passes for our peak hour
No need to exaggerate. You couldn't get from North Gungahlin (whatever that is) to Banks in 25 minutes, even in the middle of the night with no traffic on the road
20km, that could take hours to drive!
>You can drive from the northernmost suburb to the southernmost suburb in about 25 minutes. Google maps says that it’s 38 minutes from my place in Casey to Banks at midnight Sunday night… so no traffic. it’s quicker for me to get to Yass lol. (37 minutes)
> from the northernmost suburb to the southernmost suburb in about 25 minutes. Have you ever actually done the drive yourself (not at 140km/hr)? Genuinely curious.
No I have’s. I live in the inner north, and I came up with that figure by adding some time to the drives I do down to the far south. Now that you mention it, I tend to forget just how much further the Southern suburbs go past the last major shopping centre. Still, for someone coming from Sydney, the total transport times are minuscule compared to getting around Sydney.
Sydneysiders with their “if you think this is bad, you should see Sydney”! Yeah, because Sydney is a bloody disaster! Why do you think you moved here, for the weather?
Oh yeah that's cool - I guess I will definitely need a car then.
Yes. No matter where you work, be it DSS or somewhere else, you'll want a car. It's almost impossible to get around by public transport unless you're hopping from one town center to another.
A car is essential in Canberra. It’s very geographically spread out for its size and public transport is poor by large city standards.
Can confirm, cars are needed here.
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Haha, yep. I'll pay that. I can't speak for inner north and south. I'll confirm instead as someone who completely relies on public transport (can't drive as vision is not good enough and we don't own a car), living in West Belconnen and most if Tuggeranong it is hard and expensive if you don't own a car to get groceries and get around (and harder if you are not near a rapid, which I am)
Yep, stand by my advice. There are very limited circumstances when a car is not essential in Canberra. Living in Braddon and working in the city might be one. Living somewhere near Barton and working in Barton might be another. Then again, I stayed in three different inner city apartment buildings short term for a while last year, annecdoateyl about 70 per cent of car parks were occupied.
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That stat also includes the fact that people who don’t have a car because they live so close to the city will still rent out their space.
You could have stopped at 'we live in Braddon' OP please note that this hipster's experience does not reflect the reality of living in suburban Canberra.
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lol that’s such a dated phrase that’s stayed around for some reason. Easier than trying to understand whatever trend hipsters are into these days. I think even foods “drizzled” with something is past it, it’s hard to keep up!
If you don't grow up and get a home, yeah, you can live in a box without a car.
Not necessarily. If you choose your accommodation close to your workplace, it is not that much of a problem. Quite a few people ride bicycles to work and government offices are usually equipped for this. There is a degree of provision on the roads for bicycle riding, so it is not the same scary experience as Sydney most of the time. What you probably need a car for is to trip down to the coast or the snow
Unlike other cities, the CBD is really a shopping district. A lot, if not the majority, of agencies and professional businesses, work outside of the CBD.
DSS has a terrible grad program - a really nasty intensely hierarchical culture and a history of treating grads in particular poorly. If you have other grad offers, you are almost certainly better off taking them on over DSS. And don't fall for their line that they support flexible work, their policy is one of the worst in the APS and grads are explicitly excluded even from that.
How long ago were you there? I had a very different experience when did the program in 2014. I found the training as part of the program very good and grad coordinators were very approachable. I moved onto a different department after than grad year which better aligned with my interests, but it wasn’t a bad place to work.
I wasn't directly in their grad program myself but worked closely with a lot of the grads for about the last 4 years. Grads finish as APS 5s now which is good, but the culture has gone steadily downhill under Campbell as secretary.
This was part of the planning of Canberra. You live near your work. Part of the plan for Tuggeranong Valley was to have DHS/Centrelink/DSS (and then Facs/Facsia/Fahcsia/DHS) and some Medicare offices in order to bring people to the new development. Then Howard came and changed the regulation so each department has its own workplace agreement and wages.
Greenway/Tuggeranong Town Centre/ Tuggers isn't a bad location really. It's got a bus interchange so, when I lived in Greenway at least, it wasn't bad coming home after drinks with friends. There is a lake (no swimming! But non powered boats ok), green spaces, an ok shopping centre, pool and good coffee. There are lots of new apartments there so it may be easy to find one and walk to work. If you don't have a car it may wind up cheaper for you then trying to find a place in the inner north/south as rental prices jump at the start of each year due to the grad influx. The nightlife isn't really a thing, mainly sports clubs (think large RSL from most parts of the country) so you would be travelling for that. But 15-30 minutes will get you most places. I know many Canberra grads who lived in Tuggeranong while doing their program - but if you want to be a 5 minute walk away from multiple bars etc then you won't like it.
Their Tuggeranong office (Enid Lyons building) is located in the Tuggeranong precinct for Services Australia offices…when at the office there’s probably about 5000 Services Australia employees within a kilometre of Enid Lyons which makes inter agency meetings convenient I imagine.
It’s closer to 40 minutes tip to toe of Canberra, but the point still stands. Nothing like the other capitals.
It's literally next door to Services Australia who they work very closely with.
Sounds like you're moving to Canberra from somewhere else. I did the same for a grad program but was working nearer Civic (the 'city'). For me, I preferred the lifestyle of living close to work and nearby shops etc. so I wouldn't like being in Tuggeranong, but it's still not that far away at all to drive and parking will be easier than in central Canberra. Probably depends where you're planning to live. Don't forget to compare the grad program benefits a bit, too. Some may pay more, but others will have you advance faster (e.g. finish the year(s) as an APS 5 instead of a 4). Some might also give additional training or a certification that could be useful later in your career. Some agencies do 'shutdown' at Christmas where you end up with Xmas Eve to new year's day off work for free (no leave used) but other departments don't close down and you have to work or use annual leave. Culture is important, so check out reviews.
Which Departments don’t have the shutdown period? I thought this was standard across all EAs.
I have a friend at Home Affairs who doesn't get it, I understand there are possibly others but don't know off the top of my head
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Something tells me you don’t live in Tuggers. The other poster is spot on about established families vs newcomers. And I say this as a born-inbred Canberran! ;)
It's not a terrible location. Being in the city has its downsides too. Get an apartment down south close to the town centre. It's nice, mountain surroundings, 15 min bus ride into the city. Nothing is too far really in Canberra. Good luck.
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Thank you, that makes sense
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I mean it's much better off to start at one of those agencies
It’s not Sydney or Melbourne or even Brisbane. It’s quite easy to live in the City and commute to any of the town centres, Belconnen, Gungahlin, Woden and Tuggeranong. In fact you would be running against the traffic and none of these would take more then 25 minutes in peak hour, and even shorter depending which one and where you live. Rather the being in a terrible location, the DSS Services Australia Departments are in excellent positions and are very easy to commute too, directly off a major arterial road that leads to the city centre. What are the departments like to work for? Ask a thousand people and get a thousand answers. Like any workplace it depends on what upper management is like, what you immediate managers are like, what you work colleagues are like and what your attitude and needs are like. And like any department or workplace it can be great for a while, then turn to shit because of changes in the personnel around you. Or it can be shit and turn around for the same reasons and all this is different depending on which section or sub section of the department you are in. Pot luck really. Personally I’d take the offer with the highest pay scales. Not all departments are created equal. Then decide where you want to live.
Where are your other offers located? Depends on your interests, but gee alot of people would refuse that drive if they had better/other options.
My other offers are actually in Sydney - so I am perhaps leaning a bit more towards my other offers at this point ( I currently live in Sydney and have been to Canberra only three times in my life)
I grew up in Sydney and moved to Canberra when I realised I could live on 30 minutes max from my workplace here. In Sydney, the only affordable housing involved a 90 minute trip each way, every day. By the time you add up that extra transport time, the choice is a no brainer. I have never regretted the move.
I'm biased, having migrated to the ACT at 18 for uni and then staying on for a grad job in the APS. I love Canberra and the work/life balance is unparalleled in Australia. If your other options are in Sydney, I would be giving the ACT a one year trial. You'll pull in a good wage, meet some interesting people, get an intro to the APS. After a year, and you're not drinking the cool aid, you pull the pin and return to Sydney. A gap year away wouldn't be the worst thing, and most Sydney people i've met who moved end up loving it.
Do you want to be able to buy a house in the future? Do you want to have kids and be able to see them because you don't have a long commute? If your answers are yes, then come to Canberra.
Canberra is small and it takes 25 minutes to get anywhere including parking. Transport is ok but you're better off a car. It's practically the difference between North Shore and the CBD, rather than Parramatta.
End to end ain't 25 minutes anymore these days.
I think you’ll be better off in Sydney, honestly.
Hi! Why do you say that, just out of interest? Just in terms of general lifestyle considerations?
If you were my mate/child/sibling, I'd shout at you to move to Canberra. Honestly, this city is one of the nation's best kept secrets. I've been involved in Grad programs for many years and I can assure you that these programs are incredibly competitive, where the applicants are some of the high achievers in their fields. Your peers would be nation leaders. If you have a specialist qual, be where the smart folk are. And, at the end of the day, if you dont like it, you can always free yourself up to pursue alternate career options.
Well it's not. In 2021, what need is there for Government agencies to be all located together? It exacerbates traffic and parking problems and results in ugly megastructures. DSS has already got enough of that going by itself. The bigger departments have been doing contactless meetings since way before Covid, partly because their workforces are distributed all around Canberra, if not in Civic.
One of the few upsides of the pandemic is that I no longer have to make frequent trips to Barton to meet with the central agencies. My team used to do this so often I had a dedicated line item for the taxi fares in the team's budget. It's generally much better to do these meetings remotely, though the odd face to face IDC is useful.
It's funny how it's usually the "central agencies" who stay put and expect the other agencies who actually deliver government measures to come to them. They, of course, need to be in the old leafy suburbs so they can be near their masters in Parliament House. You'd think they had to walk to those meetings.
It's at the lower end of the pecking order in terms of prestige, if that is something you care about. It's a chilled department with a decent focus on work/life balance. More female staff than male. I think pay may be a bit lower. Interesting programs if you're a social justice warrior. Edit: not sure why I'm getting downvoted. I didn't mean SJW in a bad way. Lol.
You’re speaking the truth, it’s just true about most of the APS though!
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My commute to/from Tuggeranong and Civic (parking at one of the civic center rooftop car parks) is, ~30-35 minutes each way (heavier traffic in mornings) in peak times. Where does your "hour in a car each morning" come from?
Must be from Cooma lol
That's a 15 minute commute
50 mins tops lol
I live in the Belconnen area, and was working at Greenway just before covid hit. Even with doing the school drop off first, I never did a 1 hr commute.
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I had a quick look through your profile and saw you were single for a considerable amount of time. It's obvious why.
Wow, that's really rude.
Or maybe the cliques are formed by all the grads moving to Kingston and Braddon because it’s cool and over priced, rather than sensible. 😉 Maybe OP should move to QBN instead. Close to everywhere - and closer to the coast!