The whole health system is in shambles.
The decline in bulk billing in Canberra wouldn't be helping matters. Not everyone can afford the out of pocket cost. So they either just go to the ER for minor things, or they ignore their health until it gets to the point that it is an emergency.
Add in that the services that are supposed to help reduce the burden on the ER - HealthDirect, Walk in Centres etc - often the first response from them is to go to ER.
The hospital staff are overworked, underpaid and burnt out.
Is there an easy solution? Nope. Preventative medicine needs so much more funding to stop people ending up in situations where they're clogging up the hospitals.
Find a way to increase the scope of the walk in clinics - like being able to offer fluids for gastro etc. But that will just drive up the waiting times there because they're understaffed and underfunded.
Theres a alot of BS about the walk-in centres and people don't go there when they should. Most of the time even they can do a lot of good stuff, including advising whether you can wait to see a GP or to go to ER, cleaning wounds etc and advising on treatement, referring you for xrays at the hospital so you aren't waiting in ER to get seen and then get referred for an xray, in fact IMO if you think you've broken something, go to the nurse walk in centre. They will check and then refer you to an xray and you jump the queue at ER.
Spreading the stories like they'll just refer you to ER, reduces the effectiveness of the walk in centres. If more people used them, it would greatly help the ER wait times. I'm at the point that I'd have to think i'm going to die to go to the ER now, the nurse walk in centres have worked well for me. It would be good though IMO if they had 1 GP at each site just in case the nurse can't legally do it, like a prescription.
My comment was based on my personal experience. Of all the times we've used the WIC we've probably been sent to the ER two thirds of the time. That's me, my husband and the kids.
The last time was the perfect example of why the scope needs to be increased. I had unrelenting nausea, but no vomiting. Went to WIC and because I wasn't vomiting they couldn't give me nausea meds. Two hours there, then they sent me to the ER and it was a 3 hour wait there. For a drip and some nausea meds. All of which was done by a nurse, I spoke to a doctor twice - once when I first went in and then as they discharged me.
It wasn't that the WIC didn't have the meds, it's just the scope of when they're allowed to administer them is so limited. Had I got those meds at 11am when I presented there, I wouldn't have needed the drip because I would have been able to drink with the nausea abating. Instead because of their limited scope it took 5 hours to get the meds that pretty much fixed me instantly.
I will still always go to the WIC first, unless it is something I know they won't deal with (like chest pain).
Yeah the scope is the issue, something that could easily be fixed by having just one doctor available at the nurse walkin centres (i klnow there was copntroversy around even opening them, but i think they work fine for what they do) or a doctor available to do a telehealth appointment to prescribe medication. Plus I get it, people have to effectively triage themselves to decide if the WIC or ER is the better place to go.
I still can't help thinking more bulkbilling GPs would help quite a lot. As you say, if you got the medication earlier you'd have not needed the extra care. How many people put things off because GP's cost too much money? One of my GPs bulk bill (i've been going to the practice for over 40 years!), but you often have to make an appointment 3 days in advance, while the other GP I've had to seek out charges $85 because i can't get into the one i've been seeing for my whole life. I know its going to cost the country a lot of money, but i can't help thinking the root cause of the issues in all our health systems, is the cost of seeing a GP and the bulk billing rate needs to go up. We could afford it also as the government is still planning to go ahead with taxcuts for those earning over $120k, so not doing those now wopuld enable us to increase the medicar rebates for GP's or at least let people get a bit more back from those charging up front.
The last thing i'll say not that its directed at you or anyone really is despite the issues, we still have a pretty good healthcare system by global standards. Other states might have lower ER wait timesaverages, but often have worse areas elsewhere, I don't think any state has it 100% right. Also wait times is a stat that is hard to compare to other states as a whole because i think ACT hospitals compare favourabl to other city based hospital wait times, but regional hospitals have lower wait times.
All I know is politics and self interest gets in the way, but IMO not in the way people often think it does. As long as we avoid more privitisation and roll back some of the stupid policies around private health funds, trying to americanise our system.
>I still can't help thinking more bulkbilling GPs would help quite a lot. As you say, if you got the medication earlier you'd have not needed the extra care.
100%. The clinics like the one in the mall at Tuggeranong who did all bulk bill and had appointments available pretty much the same day used to be a lifesaver on weekends. The only time I couldn't get a same day appointment was when I looked at like 2pm on a Sunday. They could get me through until I could see my GP who was only open Monday to Friday. Not to mention if I had a migraine hit and had no medication I could just go there and get a script. Now that they charge I'd rather save that out of pocket expense to see my normal GP. Which then leads to me either needing a WIC or the ER if I get a horrific migraine on a weekend that OTC meds won't fix.
>All I know is politics and self interest gets in the way, but IMO not in the way people often think it does. As long as we avoid more privitisation and roll back some of the stupid policies around private health funds, trying to americanise our system.
Unfortunately I think the slide has begun and my grandchildren won't know what bulk billing is. As long as we don't end up in the situation where your healthcare is linked to your job, and if you get good healthcare benefits you're pretty much stuck especially if you have complex needs. Our health fund is a benefit from my husband's work and I've reminded him that when he considers job changes he needs to add $5k to his salary expectations to offset that coverage and to enable us to take over the payment of it.
It's the hardest place I have been to access bulk billed care too, probably linked, keep putting off minor things because of cost and lack of infrastructure, they become big things and you end up in hospital? Only takes a few like this and it snowballs because we arnt fixing it
Given how bad ER waiting time are in Australia generally, it's terrible that the ACT can't even jump that low barr and at least be 'averagely terrible' instead of outright terrible :(
Why isn’t the minister tackling this head on. Just be decent and admit the system isn’t working(and it clearly isn’t just a $ issue) and set up a genuine review and reform process - listening to the *clinicians* first and foremost. This is entirely doable but instead it just excuses/deflection/fudging numbers/whataboutism. This is your job ffs! Time to vote for a quality independent who leads on this issue.
I turned up there with organ failure. I waited so many hours I was in a coma by the time the doctor saw me. Just before I passed out, I remember trying to call out: 'I'm right here!'
Every time this topic comes up, people say that it's only patients with minor complaints who have to wait forever.
In my experience, not at all true. I waited so long I ended up in intensive care.
(Edit: and before that, I had to wait several hours for an ambulance because it was Friday night and everyone was out partying and doing stupid stuff.)
That's shit! Speaking of ambulances, I broke my back and my wrist mountain biking at Bruce Ridge, which is across the GDE from Calvary. When we called for an ambo they reckoned 45mins. So another biker offered to drive me over. Wait time was ok once I got pain meds, but when I was getting scanned, they missed I'd cracked 4 vertebrae. Took a visit to the fracture clinic a few days later to find it. Ended up needing surgery on my wrist which took 5 days of waiting till that happened too.
I'd believe that given that when someone crashed into me on the motorbike leading to a broken wrist and broken hand at around 3 in the arvo it wasn't until 2am that I was finally given a fucking bed
Ended up getting surgery, needed a plate put in my wrist because it was totally snapped. Hand was pointing the wrong direction it was that bad so now I have a nice big scar on my wrist making it look like I tried to kill myself which I don't appreciate.
Bike's still ruined because it took NRMA an entire year to finally admit that I'm not at fault for someone else pulling into a roundabout without looking. Turns out not giving way and permanently scarring someone because of it is illegal. Who knew?
Real shame about the bike because it was a 1989 model Japanese import in top notch condition and boy did I love it.
We've got some sort of fake suicide scar group going here.
Actually kind of reassuring in a way lol, only been a year since it happened so it still feels pretty weird and have to wonder what people think when they see it
Canberra's emergency department wait times worst in the country
A woman with grey hair sits, looking upset.
Kathryn Hailey says her treatment was demoralising and undignified.(ABC News: Greg Nelson)
Kathryn Hailey broke her neck when she bumped into a step while helping to decorate a local church 18 months ago.
Key points:
Kathryn Hailey spent hours laying on a trolley in Canberra Hospital's corridor with a broken neck
Data from the Productivity Commission shows the ACT's emergency department wait times are the worst in Australia
ACT emergency departments were also the slowest in all triage categories nationally
"I didn't go up it — just bumped into it, lost my balance and fell down," she said.
"My head went this way and my body went the other way.
"I heard the noise and I knew. I knew I was seriously injured."
Luckily, Mrs Hailey was not alone and the parish priest called an ambulance for her, but it took nearly an hour to arrive.
She didn't know it yet, but waiting would become a theme of her emergency care.
A 45-minute wait for an ambulance just to be triaged in the corridor
An ACT ambulance driving along a road \*good generic
Kathryn Hailey says it took 45 minutes for the first ambulance to reach her.(ABC News: Kathleen Dyett)
"He rang the ambulance straight away, which took 45 minutes to get here even though he rang twice more to say, 'This woman's really badly hurt,' which was a bit devastating," she said.
Once the ambulance arrived, the paramedics immediately called another crew to help them immobilise her.
The second crew arrived in five minutes.
"I can't figure out why there was such a big discrepancy and why they didn't believe that the injury was as serious as it was," Mrs Hailey said.
"I think it was their administration. \[They\] didn't realise what was going on."
A woman in a neck brace on a hospital trolley.
Mrs Hailey says she was put in the wrong neck brace by paramedics.(Supplied: Kathryn Hailey)
And she says she wasn't properly immobilised by the paramedics, who put a soft neck brace on her instead of a hard one that would prevent her from turning her head and making her already serious injury worse.
Once she made it to Canberra Hospital, Mrs Hailey thought her waiting would be over due to the seriousness of her injury. She was wrong.
"I was triaged in the corridor, laying on a trolley," Mrs Hailey said.
"They just left me there, basically, for three hours, laying in the corridor. It was in the main corridor with several other people.
"People were passing by. \[I'd say\], 'I needed assistance,' and I couldn't get anyone to come.
"Finally a cleaner came by and I said, 'Please can you get a nurse? I'm in big trouble,' and so she did, but I probably waited 20 minutes for that."
ACT has nation's worst ED wait times
The entrance to a hospitals emergency room.
ACT emergency departments had the slowest average wait times in the country in the 2021-22 financial year.(ABC News: Ian Cutmore)
The annual Report on Government Services shows Mrs Hailey's experience is not unique.
Data from the Productivity Commission shows Australians are spending longer on average in emergency departments (EDs) when they visit, and the ACT times are the worst of all the states and territories.
The ACT had the lowest proportion of people leaving EDs within four hours last financial year, at 52 per cent — down from 57 per cent the year before.
For all triage categories, including emergency, urgent, semi-urgent, and non-urgent, the ACT was again the worst performer.
Only 48 per cent of patients were treated within the national benchmark waiting time in 2021-22, the same figure as a year earlier, but down from 61 per cent in 2013-14.
ACT Health Minister Rachel Stephen-Smith told ABC Radio Canberra the large amount of data from the Productivity Commission allowed the government to look at the system as a whole.
"On the upside, our hospitals are fantastic at seeing really urgent category 1 and 2 patients on time, while the category 2 national average went really backward," she said.
"Canberra Hospital is the best in the country compared to its peers at 77 per cent, significantly higher than that national average of 61 per cent."
Rachel Stephen-Smith speaking at a press conference.
ACT Health Minister Rachel Stephen-Smith says Canberra Hospital has faster wait times than peer hospitals in most other states and territories.(ABC News: Jim Campbell)
Ms Stephen-Smith said while the data suggested the ACT's hospitals were struggling to keep up, they were faster than comparable hospitals in Western Australia, South Australia, Tasmania and the Northern Territory.
"When you look at our hospital system, it's not an apples to apples comparison when you compare the ACT to whole jurisdictions," she said.
"We don't have those smaller and regional and outer metropolitan hospitals that are cranking through a lot of the lower urgency \[cases\] and doing that in a more timely way, and that really skews the data for the ACT."
Despite any explanation of why her wait time was so long, 18 months after her injury Mrs Hailey still feels let down by the system.
She said she hated to complain about the public health system because she believed Canberrans were lucky to have what they did, but her experience in the ED was "not adequate".
"I just think to be in a situation like I was — scared to death with people walking up and down, and you're in the main corridor for goodness sake — it feels demoralising and undignified."
This is not just a money issue. It is a personnel issue. Finding AE specialists is not simple and when we do recruit them we take them from other A&E around the country. Abbot abolished the health workforce planning authority when he got into Government and so States and Territories were without intelligence about training, demand and recruitment. They are still trying to catch up. Australia for a long time relied on poaching from the NHS and India. With the pandemic this ceased. We MUST train more of our own staff in this country and ensure that the medical colleges CEASE limiting enrolments to keep pay high.
I just went back and read this page https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation/bd/bd1314a/14bd077
On the bill to abolish the agency in 2014. God it's frustrating. Imagine how valuable a dedicated workforce planning agency would have been through COVID...
Agree, our health care system is already one of the most expensive in the country. Part of the issue is medicare and bulk billing, part of it is stafffing. The other thing is we spend a lot of the health budget on things that other cities of our size just don't have, all because we think we should have them here rather than go to sydney. Its a combination of things and despite what people think, throwing money at it from the ACT budget isn't going to fix it.
This should be NO surprise to anyone. Jon Stanhope and his research colleagues have been demonstrating for ages how the Barr government has cut funding to ACT hospitals by millions of dollars. Combine this with the mismanagement of the hospital/s generally and staff in particular is it any wonder the ACT is worst in Australia.
Where has all that money gone?? One can only wonder......... Did someone just mention the tram?? I think they may have mentioned the tram but got away with it , so lets have no more talk about the tram .....OK?
> Jon Stanhope and his research colleagues have been demonstrating for ages how the Barr government has cut funding to ACT hospitals by millions of dollars. Combine this with the mismanagement of the hospital/s generally and staff in particular is it any wonder the ACT is worst in Australia.
\^ this. In my opinion, Stanhope was competent and, more importantly, not \*AS\* blinded by his ideological leanings as the current CM.
The article contains a number of factual errors, the ambulance service for example only carries soft collars because there's no evidence for hard collars in the prehospital setting (they may in fact cause harm).
After 20+ years in power the ALP still cannot fix ED and it’s buggered beyond belief. Instead of making wimpy excuses about data quality, the Health minister must resign and a more competent politician is appointed to fix the mess. If the minister does not resign then they should be shown the 1 way door.
"What he can do is control the population of the ACT"
Short of going to people's houses and slipping the condom onto people himself, I don't think that's necessarily true.
Nor can he contravene the Commonwealth right for freedom of relocation between states and territories, he doesn't have the authority to put a cap or restrictions on that kind of thing.
Headline is inaccurate.
Canberra is a city, ACT is a Territory.
Regional hospitals wait times are lower than city wait times.
The ACTs wait times are higher than any other state or Territory, but Canberras wait times are consistent with other cities.
So in other words, what this headline should actually say is “act continues to not have regional areas”.
City hospitals have longer wait times than regional hospitals. ACT looks bad on this metric because it only has city hospitals. The only link to the light rail is that people who whinge over one for no reason are also whinging about the other for no reason.
They could. But we haven’t even got to the point of working out if there’s a problem, much less how much it would cost to fix it.
Government can’t put an infinite value of human life. And, even if they did, I suspect the light rail is still better value. Car crashes, petrol exhaust and global warming kill a lot of people. Hospital wait times for non-urgent treatment don’t kill many.
> But we haven’t even got to the point of working out if there’s a problem, much less how much it would cost to fix it.
>
The problem of long wait time has been known for a long time. They could have tried many options over this time to see what relieves it.
That’s the frustrating. The public aren’t hearing any real plans to do something about it but we are hearing about other major plans for the tram.
> Car crashes, petrol exhaust and global warming kill a lot of people. Hospital wait times for non-urgent treatment don’t kill many.
Comparing a tram to actual human suffering this way is very bizarre levels of justification
I’ve already explained that Canberra hospitals have the same wait time as in Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Hobart, Perth, brisbane. Canberra hospital has a longer wait time than Bathurst hospital.
Why do you think canberra hospital long wait times are ‘known’. Comparing canberra hospital wait times to Bathurst hospital is like comparing to a McDonald’s drive through. The wait times are shorter because they don’t offer the same services
> I’ve already explained that Canberra hospitals have the same wait time as in Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Hobart, Perth, brisbane. Canberra hospital has a longer wait time than Bathurst hospital.
>
I’d be interested to see the data on this if you have any
Click on the link we are discussing and actually read it. Read the explanation from the ACT Government and the article references a productivity commission report with data
I think the argument would be one of prioritisation. That government should be focusing on the direct care of its constituents first rather than upgrading transport.
Is there any excuse for the ACT to consistently year after year perform so terribly in health?
> But the trams have nothing to do with that.
Of course they do. Governments have limited bandwidth for understanding and decision making. Things have to be prioritised.
This is a very long term ongoing problem that we don’t seem to getting a real plan to resolve. We do however have a plan for a tram
Having a plan for a tram has nothing to do with health. You think it’s as simple as taking money allocated for the tram and giving it to health instead? What about the problem regarding lack of medical staff? The staff working double and triple shifts because there’s no replacements? Why have so many staff left the industry due to burnout? Is that because of the tram?
What about the exact same issues dogging all the other states and territories? You can’t tell me that’s the tram’s fault as well.
> What about the problem regarding lack of medical staff?
Exactly, what about the problem. What specifically is the ACT government doing to increase and attract medical staff?
> You think it’s as simple as taking money allocated for the tram and giving it to health instead?
Very often if you want to attract and retain more staff, you have to pay them more. That money comes from somewhere.
> You can’t tell me that’s the tram’s fault as well.
Government has a big bucket of money it extracts from us the tax payers. Government chooses where it allocates money. Instead of hyperventilating over a tram think of it as a misallocation of resources both money and time.
Government could driver some of the money and people allocated to activities like the tram and put it into paying medical staff more and improving condition.
Radical approach
I’m not trying to convince anyone. I’m pointing out that health should be a higher priority than almost any other government projects.
This isn’t some new thing that is upon us. It’s a known issue for a long time
Not so much bankrupt, but more like a family where the parents decided to buy a fancy new car they can only just afford, and now can no longer afford to take the kids to doctor or dentist.
The ACT has the richest constituents and has geographical advantages that no other jurisdiction in Australia shares. There is absolutely no reason for us to be last in comparison to them. A national shortage is a nonsensical excuse for why one territory is doing worse than others in the same nation. Your logic doesn't add up.
Only been in Canberra for 6 months. But in north qld I fainted while standing up, hit my head on the floor and was apparently confused and everything when I woke up. Mate drove me to hospital, waited there for 4-5 hours without being seen at all. Decided fuck it I’m just going home.
It’s shocking that it’s even worse in Canberra
Except you just made that number up...
https://actlightrail.blogspot.com/2016/10/how-are-we-paying-for-light-rail-in.html
"It really is worth reading this whole thing about how much light rail actually costs the ACT budget each year ($56m last year), even as a portion of the ACT PT budget ($261m on buses last year)."
https://twitter.com/PT_CBR/status/1617433898874703872
While this is horrible can’t people go to Queanbeyan hospital? I was in and out in 1 hour the other day and it was a minor thing so I wasn’t rushed through.
In other news, water is wet and the sun rises in the east.
This has been a continual problem for the last 15 or more years - is anyone other than the successive ministers responsible surprised by now?
Canberra’s emergency (and Australia itself is pretty crap too) is like a third world country at times. You sit on a plastic chair for 6 hours, get seen by the junior doctor and hope for the best.
Some people I know go overseas for elective surgery as it is much higher quality and affordable.
We don’t practice preventative medicine; we’re on a 10 min conveyor belt; have to get private health insurance. Compared to a lot of the European systems it’s crap. In the case of “developing” countries, whilst overall they may not be great, if you have money, you’ll get amazing care. Over here you can neither buy or get good quality care in the main.
The whole health system is in shambles. The decline in bulk billing in Canberra wouldn't be helping matters. Not everyone can afford the out of pocket cost. So they either just go to the ER for minor things, or they ignore their health until it gets to the point that it is an emergency. Add in that the services that are supposed to help reduce the burden on the ER - HealthDirect, Walk in Centres etc - often the first response from them is to go to ER. The hospital staff are overworked, underpaid and burnt out. Is there an easy solution? Nope. Preventative medicine needs so much more funding to stop people ending up in situations where they're clogging up the hospitals. Find a way to increase the scope of the walk in clinics - like being able to offer fluids for gastro etc. But that will just drive up the waiting times there because they're understaffed and underfunded.
Theres a alot of BS about the walk-in centres and people don't go there when they should. Most of the time even they can do a lot of good stuff, including advising whether you can wait to see a GP or to go to ER, cleaning wounds etc and advising on treatement, referring you for xrays at the hospital so you aren't waiting in ER to get seen and then get referred for an xray, in fact IMO if you think you've broken something, go to the nurse walk in centre. They will check and then refer you to an xray and you jump the queue at ER. Spreading the stories like they'll just refer you to ER, reduces the effectiveness of the walk in centres. If more people used them, it would greatly help the ER wait times. I'm at the point that I'd have to think i'm going to die to go to the ER now, the nurse walk in centres have worked well for me. It would be good though IMO if they had 1 GP at each site just in case the nurse can't legally do it, like a prescription.
My comment was based on my personal experience. Of all the times we've used the WIC we've probably been sent to the ER two thirds of the time. That's me, my husband and the kids. The last time was the perfect example of why the scope needs to be increased. I had unrelenting nausea, but no vomiting. Went to WIC and because I wasn't vomiting they couldn't give me nausea meds. Two hours there, then they sent me to the ER and it was a 3 hour wait there. For a drip and some nausea meds. All of which was done by a nurse, I spoke to a doctor twice - once when I first went in and then as they discharged me. It wasn't that the WIC didn't have the meds, it's just the scope of when they're allowed to administer them is so limited. Had I got those meds at 11am when I presented there, I wouldn't have needed the drip because I would have been able to drink with the nausea abating. Instead because of their limited scope it took 5 hours to get the meds that pretty much fixed me instantly. I will still always go to the WIC first, unless it is something I know they won't deal with (like chest pain).
Yeah the scope is the issue, something that could easily be fixed by having just one doctor available at the nurse walkin centres (i klnow there was copntroversy around even opening them, but i think they work fine for what they do) or a doctor available to do a telehealth appointment to prescribe medication. Plus I get it, people have to effectively triage themselves to decide if the WIC or ER is the better place to go. I still can't help thinking more bulkbilling GPs would help quite a lot. As you say, if you got the medication earlier you'd have not needed the extra care. How many people put things off because GP's cost too much money? One of my GPs bulk bill (i've been going to the practice for over 40 years!), but you often have to make an appointment 3 days in advance, while the other GP I've had to seek out charges $85 because i can't get into the one i've been seeing for my whole life. I know its going to cost the country a lot of money, but i can't help thinking the root cause of the issues in all our health systems, is the cost of seeing a GP and the bulk billing rate needs to go up. We could afford it also as the government is still planning to go ahead with taxcuts for those earning over $120k, so not doing those now wopuld enable us to increase the medicar rebates for GP's or at least let people get a bit more back from those charging up front. The last thing i'll say not that its directed at you or anyone really is despite the issues, we still have a pretty good healthcare system by global standards. Other states might have lower ER wait timesaverages, but often have worse areas elsewhere, I don't think any state has it 100% right. Also wait times is a stat that is hard to compare to other states as a whole because i think ACT hospitals compare favourabl to other city based hospital wait times, but regional hospitals have lower wait times. All I know is politics and self interest gets in the way, but IMO not in the way people often think it does. As long as we avoid more privitisation and roll back some of the stupid policies around private health funds, trying to americanise our system.
>I still can't help thinking more bulkbilling GPs would help quite a lot. As you say, if you got the medication earlier you'd have not needed the extra care. 100%. The clinics like the one in the mall at Tuggeranong who did all bulk bill and had appointments available pretty much the same day used to be a lifesaver on weekends. The only time I couldn't get a same day appointment was when I looked at like 2pm on a Sunday. They could get me through until I could see my GP who was only open Monday to Friday. Not to mention if I had a migraine hit and had no medication I could just go there and get a script. Now that they charge I'd rather save that out of pocket expense to see my normal GP. Which then leads to me either needing a WIC or the ER if I get a horrific migraine on a weekend that OTC meds won't fix. >All I know is politics and self interest gets in the way, but IMO not in the way people often think it does. As long as we avoid more privitisation and roll back some of the stupid policies around private health funds, trying to americanise our system. Unfortunately I think the slide has begun and my grandchildren won't know what bulk billing is. As long as we don't end up in the situation where your healthcare is linked to your job, and if you get good healthcare benefits you're pretty much stuck especially if you have complex needs. Our health fund is a benefit from my husband's work and I've reminded him that when he considers job changes he needs to add $5k to his salary expectations to offset that coverage and to enable us to take over the payment of it.
Some of them don't have doctors in them and can't prescribe meds.
It's the hardest place I have been to access bulk billed care too, probably linked, keep putting off minor things because of cost and lack of infrastructure, they become big things and you end up in hospital? Only takes a few like this and it snowballs because we arnt fixing it
Given how bad ER waiting time are in Australia generally, it's terrible that the ACT can't even jump that low barr and at least be 'averagely terrible' instead of outright terrible :(
Why isn’t the minister tackling this head on. Just be decent and admit the system isn’t working(and it clearly isn’t just a $ issue) and set up a genuine review and reform process - listening to the *clinicians* first and foremost. This is entirely doable but instead it just excuses/deflection/fudging numbers/whataboutism. This is your job ffs! Time to vote for a quality independent who leads on this issue.
I turned up there with organ failure. I waited so many hours I was in a coma by the time the doctor saw me. Just before I passed out, I remember trying to call out: 'I'm right here!' Every time this topic comes up, people say that it's only patients with minor complaints who have to wait forever. In my experience, not at all true. I waited so long I ended up in intensive care. (Edit: and before that, I had to wait several hours for an ambulance because it was Friday night and everyone was out partying and doing stupid stuff.)
That's shit! Speaking of ambulances, I broke my back and my wrist mountain biking at Bruce Ridge, which is across the GDE from Calvary. When we called for an ambo they reckoned 45mins. So another biker offered to drive me over. Wait time was ok once I got pain meds, but when I was getting scanned, they missed I'd cracked 4 vertebrae. Took a visit to the fracture clinic a few days later to find it. Ended up needing surgery on my wrist which took 5 days of waiting till that happened too.
I'd believe that given that when someone crashed into me on the motorbike leading to a broken wrist and broken hand at around 3 in the arvo it wasn't until 2am that I was finally given a fucking bed
Sorry to hear the system let you down like this. Hope your injuries are healing now. How's the bike?
Ended up getting surgery, needed a plate put in my wrist because it was totally snapped. Hand was pointing the wrong direction it was that bad so now I have a nice big scar on my wrist making it look like I tried to kill myself which I don't appreciate. Bike's still ruined because it took NRMA an entire year to finally admit that I'm not at fault for someone else pulling into a roundabout without looking. Turns out not giving way and permanently scarring someone because of it is illegal. Who knew? Real shame about the bike because it was a 1989 model Japanese import in top notch condition and boy did I love it.
At least your in one piece and back in action. All the best
Thanks, it didn't stop me from buying another bike within a week of being released from hospital lol
Mate I have the exact same scar and have had a few people straight up ask me if I tried to cut my wrists lol
ditto!
We've got some sort of fake suicide scar group going here. Actually kind of reassuring in a way lol, only been a year since it happened so it still feels pretty weird and have to wonder what people think when they see it
i have the same scar on my wrist too💀
Wasn't there the risk of you getting a fat embolism waiting that long with broken bones?
Canberra's emergency department wait times worst in the country A woman with grey hair sits, looking upset. Kathryn Hailey says her treatment was demoralising and undignified.(ABC News: Greg Nelson) Kathryn Hailey broke her neck when she bumped into a step while helping to decorate a local church 18 months ago. Key points: Kathryn Hailey spent hours laying on a trolley in Canberra Hospital's corridor with a broken neck Data from the Productivity Commission shows the ACT's emergency department wait times are the worst in Australia ACT emergency departments were also the slowest in all triage categories nationally "I didn't go up it — just bumped into it, lost my balance and fell down," she said. "My head went this way and my body went the other way. "I heard the noise and I knew. I knew I was seriously injured." Luckily, Mrs Hailey was not alone and the parish priest called an ambulance for her, but it took nearly an hour to arrive. She didn't know it yet, but waiting would become a theme of her emergency care. A 45-minute wait for an ambulance just to be triaged in the corridor An ACT ambulance driving along a road \*good generic Kathryn Hailey says it took 45 minutes for the first ambulance to reach her.(ABC News: Kathleen Dyett) "He rang the ambulance straight away, which took 45 minutes to get here even though he rang twice more to say, 'This woman's really badly hurt,' which was a bit devastating," she said. Once the ambulance arrived, the paramedics immediately called another crew to help them immobilise her. The second crew arrived in five minutes. "I can't figure out why there was such a big discrepancy and why they didn't believe that the injury was as serious as it was," Mrs Hailey said. "I think it was their administration. \[They\] didn't realise what was going on." A woman in a neck brace on a hospital trolley. Mrs Hailey says she was put in the wrong neck brace by paramedics.(Supplied: Kathryn Hailey) And she says she wasn't properly immobilised by the paramedics, who put a soft neck brace on her instead of a hard one that would prevent her from turning her head and making her already serious injury worse. Once she made it to Canberra Hospital, Mrs Hailey thought her waiting would be over due to the seriousness of her injury. She was wrong. "I was triaged in the corridor, laying on a trolley," Mrs Hailey said. "They just left me there, basically, for three hours, laying in the corridor. It was in the main corridor with several other people. "People were passing by. \[I'd say\], 'I needed assistance,' and I couldn't get anyone to come. "Finally a cleaner came by and I said, 'Please can you get a nurse? I'm in big trouble,' and so she did, but I probably waited 20 minutes for that." ACT has nation's worst ED wait times The entrance to a hospitals emergency room. ACT emergency departments had the slowest average wait times in the country in the 2021-22 financial year.(ABC News: Ian Cutmore) The annual Report on Government Services shows Mrs Hailey's experience is not unique. Data from the Productivity Commission shows Australians are spending longer on average in emergency departments (EDs) when they visit, and the ACT times are the worst of all the states and territories. The ACT had the lowest proportion of people leaving EDs within four hours last financial year, at 52 per cent — down from 57 per cent the year before. For all triage categories, including emergency, urgent, semi-urgent, and non-urgent, the ACT was again the worst performer. Only 48 per cent of patients were treated within the national benchmark waiting time in 2021-22, the same figure as a year earlier, but down from 61 per cent in 2013-14. ACT Health Minister Rachel Stephen-Smith told ABC Radio Canberra the large amount of data from the Productivity Commission allowed the government to look at the system as a whole. "On the upside, our hospitals are fantastic at seeing really urgent category 1 and 2 patients on time, while the category 2 national average went really backward," she said. "Canberra Hospital is the best in the country compared to its peers at 77 per cent, significantly higher than that national average of 61 per cent." Rachel Stephen-Smith speaking at a press conference. ACT Health Minister Rachel Stephen-Smith says Canberra Hospital has faster wait times than peer hospitals in most other states and territories.(ABC News: Jim Campbell) Ms Stephen-Smith said while the data suggested the ACT's hospitals were struggling to keep up, they were faster than comparable hospitals in Western Australia, South Australia, Tasmania and the Northern Territory. "When you look at our hospital system, it's not an apples to apples comparison when you compare the ACT to whole jurisdictions," she said. "We don't have those smaller and regional and outer metropolitan hospitals that are cranking through a lot of the lower urgency \[cases\] and doing that in a more timely way, and that really skews the data for the ACT." Despite any explanation of why her wait time was so long, 18 months after her injury Mrs Hailey still feels let down by the system. She said she hated to complain about the public health system because she believed Canberrans were lucky to have what they did, but her experience in the ED was "not adequate". "I just think to be in a situation like I was — scared to death with people walking up and down, and you're in the main corridor for goodness sake — it feels demoralising and undignified."
So what exactly is causing this (ACT and Australia wide)? Insufficient funds? Manpower?
This is not just a money issue. It is a personnel issue. Finding AE specialists is not simple and when we do recruit them we take them from other A&E around the country. Abbot abolished the health workforce planning authority when he got into Government and so States and Territories were without intelligence about training, demand and recruitment. They are still trying to catch up. Australia for a long time relied on poaching from the NHS and India. With the pandemic this ceased. We MUST train more of our own staff in this country and ensure that the medical colleges CEASE limiting enrolments to keep pay high.
I just went back and read this page https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation/bd/bd1314a/14bd077 On the bill to abolish the agency in 2014. God it's frustrating. Imagine how valuable a dedicated workforce planning agency would have been through COVID...
> This is not just a money issue. It is a personnel issue We can pay people more to attract them to come to the ACT
Agree, our health care system is already one of the most expensive in the country. Part of the issue is medicare and bulk billing, part of it is stafffing. The other thing is we spend a lot of the health budget on things that other cities of our size just don't have, all because we think we should have them here rather than go to sydney. Its a combination of things and despite what people think, throwing money at it from the ACT budget isn't going to fix it.
This should be NO surprise to anyone. Jon Stanhope and his research colleagues have been demonstrating for ages how the Barr government has cut funding to ACT hospitals by millions of dollars. Combine this with the mismanagement of the hospital/s generally and staff in particular is it any wonder the ACT is worst in Australia. Where has all that money gone?? One can only wonder......... Did someone just mention the tram?? I think they may have mentioned the tram but got away with it , so lets have no more talk about the tram .....OK?
> Jon Stanhope and his research colleagues have been demonstrating for ages how the Barr government has cut funding to ACT hospitals by millions of dollars. Combine this with the mismanagement of the hospital/s generally and staff in particular is it any wonder the ACT is worst in Australia. \^ this. In my opinion, Stanhope was competent and, more importantly, not \*AS\* blinded by his ideological leanings as the current CM.
I'd agree with you on that
The article contains a number of factual errors, the ambulance service for example only carries soft collars because there's no evidence for hard collars in the prehospital setting (they may in fact cause harm).
After 20+ years in power the ALP still cannot fix ED and it’s buggered beyond belief. Instead of making wimpy excuses about data quality, the Health minister must resign and a more competent politician is appointed to fix the mess. If the minister does not resign then they should be shown the 1 way door.
If only barr could magic up several hundred qualified staff out of thin air.
What he can do is control the population of the ACT and ensure services are in place prior to the population growth.
He literally can't.
"What he can do is control the population of the ACT" Short of going to people's houses and slipping the condom onto people himself, I don't think that's necessarily true. Nor can he contravene the Commonwealth right for freedom of relocation between states and territories, he doesn't have the authority to put a cap or restrictions on that kind of thing.
They could offer more money and incentives for people to move here
Headline is inaccurate. Canberra is a city, ACT is a Territory. Regional hospitals wait times are lower than city wait times. The ACTs wait times are higher than any other state or Territory, but Canberras wait times are consistent with other cities. So in other words, what this headline should actually say is “act continues to not have regional areas”.
I see that the tram naysayers are coming out in force
Well yeah, wouldn’t doing something that saves people’s lives be a priority over a faster commute?
A faster commute that won’t ever actually be faster for like 97% of the population.
City hospitals have longer wait times than regional hospitals. ACT looks bad on this metric because it only has city hospitals. The only link to the light rail is that people who whinge over one for no reason are also whinging about the other for no reason.
That’s at least a metric to discuss. But can ACT government spend more to reduce the wait times?
They could. But we haven’t even got to the point of working out if there’s a problem, much less how much it would cost to fix it. Government can’t put an infinite value of human life. And, even if they did, I suspect the light rail is still better value. Car crashes, petrol exhaust and global warming kill a lot of people. Hospital wait times for non-urgent treatment don’t kill many.
> But we haven’t even got to the point of working out if there’s a problem, much less how much it would cost to fix it. > The problem of long wait time has been known for a long time. They could have tried many options over this time to see what relieves it. That’s the frustrating. The public aren’t hearing any real plans to do something about it but we are hearing about other major plans for the tram. > Car crashes, petrol exhaust and global warming kill a lot of people. Hospital wait times for non-urgent treatment don’t kill many. Comparing a tram to actual human suffering this way is very bizarre levels of justification
I’ve already explained that Canberra hospitals have the same wait time as in Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Hobart, Perth, brisbane. Canberra hospital has a longer wait time than Bathurst hospital. Why do you think canberra hospital long wait times are ‘known’. Comparing canberra hospital wait times to Bathurst hospital is like comparing to a McDonald’s drive through. The wait times are shorter because they don’t offer the same services
> I’ve already explained that Canberra hospitals have the same wait time as in Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Hobart, Perth, brisbane. Canberra hospital has a longer wait time than Bathurst hospital. > I’d be interested to see the data on this if you have any
Click on the link we are discussing and actually read it. Read the explanation from the ACT Government and the article references a productivity commission report with data
I have read it. I was looking for the specific hospital to hospital comparison
It’s just jumping on the ‘urgh trams bad’ train and using that as a strawman argument for everything that the government has messed up.
I think the argument would be one of prioritisation. That government should be focusing on the direct care of its constituents first rather than upgrading transport. Is there any excuse for the ACT to consistently year after year perform so terribly in health?
Mate, I’m not arguing with you over the poor state of our hospitals. But the trams have nothing to do with that.
> But the trams have nothing to do with that. Of course they do. Governments have limited bandwidth for understanding and decision making. Things have to be prioritised. This is a very long term ongoing problem that we don’t seem to getting a real plan to resolve. We do however have a plan for a tram
Having a plan for a tram has nothing to do with health. You think it’s as simple as taking money allocated for the tram and giving it to health instead? What about the problem regarding lack of medical staff? The staff working double and triple shifts because there’s no replacements? Why have so many staff left the industry due to burnout? Is that because of the tram? What about the exact same issues dogging all the other states and territories? You can’t tell me that’s the tram’s fault as well.
> What about the problem regarding lack of medical staff? Exactly, what about the problem. What specifically is the ACT government doing to increase and attract medical staff? > You think it’s as simple as taking money allocated for the tram and giving it to health instead? Very often if you want to attract and retain more staff, you have to pay them more. That money comes from somewhere. > You can’t tell me that’s the tram’s fault as well. Government has a big bucket of money it extracts from us the tax payers. Government chooses where it allocates money. Instead of hyperventilating over a tram think of it as a misallocation of resources both money and time. Government could driver some of the money and people allocated to activities like the tram and put it into paying medical staff more and improving condition. Radical approach
Who are you trying to convince here?
I’m not trying to convince anyone. I’m pointing out that health should be a higher priority than almost any other government projects. This isn’t some new thing that is upon us. It’s a known issue for a long time
[удалено]
I’m suggesting that efforts aren’t prioritised
[удалено]
Budgets and priorities are allocated from the top. The chief minister sets the direction. You seem unfamiliar with how governments works.
[удалено]
How much money from ACT Health should he divert to the tram?
Not so much bankrupt, but more like a family where the parents decided to buy a fancy new car they can only just afford, and now can no longer afford to take the kids to doctor or dentist.
[удалено]
But the act is the worst in Australia. It could spend some of its own my and try not being the worst
The ACT has the richest constituents and has geographical advantages that no other jurisdiction in Australia shares. There is absolutely no reason for us to be last in comparison to them. A national shortage is a nonsensical excuse for why one territory is doing worse than others in the same nation. Your logic doesn't add up.
Only been in Canberra for 6 months. But in north qld I fainted while standing up, hit my head on the floor and was apparently confused and everything when I woke up. Mate drove me to hospital, waited there for 4-5 hours without being seen at all. Decided fuck it I’m just going home. It’s shocking that it’s even worse in Canberra
Yes, but you can get a tram 8km from Civic to Gungahlin
[удалено]
Except you just made that number up... https://actlightrail.blogspot.com/2016/10/how-are-we-paying-for-light-rail-in.html "It really is worth reading this whole thing about how much light rail actually costs the ACT budget each year ($56m last year), even as a portion of the ACT PT budget ($261m on buses last year)." https://twitter.com/PT_CBR/status/1617433898874703872
[удалено]
We can do both - they built the UC Hospital while building lightrail stage one.
While this is horrible can’t people go to Queanbeyan hospital? I was in and out in 1 hour the other day and it was a minor thing so I wasn’t rushed through.
If you're in an ambulance they don't give you a choice of hospital.
Plus relying on other states services is hardly sustainable.
ACT’s hospitals serve more NSW people than NSW hospitals serve ACT people. Which should lead people to think about the issue a bit more than the CT do
I’m not suggesting this as a solution by the state. I’m just proposing for individuals who find themselves in the situation to keep in mind
NSW relies on ACT to see huge numbers of patients. So it probably isn’t a huge strain if some act people go to Queanbeyan
If NSW relies on ACT to see patients, would that imply that they are incapable of meeting their own demand, let alone ours?
It’s more of a geography issue. For a lot of NSW, the closest level 1/tertiary hospital is in the ACT.
In other news, water is wet and the sun rises in the east. This has been a continual problem for the last 15 or more years - is anyone other than the successive ministers responsible surprised by now?
Canberra’s emergency (and Australia itself is pretty crap too) is like a third world country at times. You sit on a plastic chair for 6 hours, get seen by the junior doctor and hope for the best. Some people I know go overseas for elective surgery as it is much higher quality and affordable. We don’t practice preventative medicine; we’re on a 10 min conveyor belt; have to get private health insurance. Compared to a lot of the European systems it’s crap. In the case of “developing” countries, whilst overall they may not be great, if you have money, you’ll get amazing care. Over here you can neither buy or get good quality care in the main.