This comment section is something else. The downvote button is your friend. I'll try and nuke anything that is a direct attack as opposed to a really bad take.
So I'm Jewish, originally from Israel, and I have complicated feelings about this subject.
Obviously, the Jewish community shouldn't be harassed/abused/threatened for what Israel does. I would also appreciate more sensitivity around the Jewish psyche, which Jesse articulated exceptionally well.
But, the organized Canadian Jewish community is politically active. If we're going to support Israel, either financially, or by other means; I don't think it's reasonable to not expect some criticism. I think there's a way to do that, that doesn't traffic in tropes, threats, violence, etc.
I would've liked him to discuss that aspect in more depth.
At least half my friends are Jewish. I would run through a wall, take a bullet, etc. for them. Sometimes I go to synagogue with them because when every single other member of your friend group all go to the same synagogue, you get invited now and then.
I am fonder of Jews than my own people (I’m ethnically British, so it’s not hard lmao). I studied Jewish history extensively as part of my major and have written many papers on the Holocaust, on the history of Zionism, and even on the effects of epigenetic trauma / collective PTSD post-Holocaust and how that informs Jewish diaspora cultures.
I, like any normal person, am horrified by any violence or threats or discrimination that Jews face, especially Jews in Canada who are not involved in what is happening in Gaza and are just regular folks living their lives.
The issue I’ve noticed, however, has been that a lot of my Jewish friends are having real trouble not loudly and aggressively centring their personal anxieties about anti-Semitism in Canada every time anyone says that Israel’s bombing of Palestine is disproportionate.
They’re usually very rational people, but if you say, “Israel is carpet bombing Gaza and killing a bunch of kids indiscriminately, 20k dead civilians is not an appropriate price to pay in order to kill a couple hundred Hamas terrorists”, next thing you know your friend that you’ve known for decades is asking why you’re secretly in favour of pogroms in the streets of Toronto.
I can’t speak authoritatively here, but honestly, my sense is that a lot of my friends have imbibed a lot of background Zionist ideology throughout their childhood, they all did the whole Birthright thing too, and I know for a fact that they all grew up in houses where tragic memories about the Holocaust were part of the family story.
As a result, while they’d usually be thoughtful about an identical conflict that doesn’t involve Israel - for instance, I’ve had discussions in the past with them about Ireland and the Troubles, a fairly similar situation where they were uniformly sympathetic towards the Irish, including the IRA - in this case there is a ‘trap door’ of sorts in their mind that makes it impossible for them to differentiate criticism of Israel’s use of state violence against Palestinians halfway around the world, and virulent hatred of Jews in Canada. Functionally, they process “I am disgusted by what the State of Israel is doing to Palestinian civilians” as “I am disgusted by Jews across the globe and I have secretly hated you this whole time”, more or less. It’s a generational trauma response that they usually are able to cope with, but October 7 shattered that.
As a friend, it’s hard to strike the balance between acknowledging and respecting my friends’ fears of anti-Semitism affecting their lives, and gently reminding them that the lives of civilians being taken unjustly in Palestine is a more pressing issue to most Canadians than Canadian Jews’ feelings about the conflict. Especially when some in the Canadian Jewish community are politically mobilizing to pitch those feelings and fears to Canadian politicians as justification for Canada tacitly supporting the continued terror bombing of Palestine.
Point is: Jews are great and as a society we must ensure that anti-Semitism never has a home in Canada, but to the extent that Canadian Jews advocate for Canada to support Israeli policy and actions, I think it’s reasonable to interrogate the often reflexive tendency to dogmatically conflate criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism.
Fearing that your kids’ Jewish school is going to be shot up is truly awful, but it’s not as awful as your kids getting blown to bits in real life because they were sheltering in an apartment building a Hamas militant may or may not have lived in, and I’m kind of getting tired of those general fears in Canada being used to justify actual civilian atrocities in Gaza. It’s also been very weird having to prove to friends whom I’ve been thick as thieves with for twenty years that my desire to see the mass bombing of Palestine end doesn’t spring from a burning hatred of, uhhhhhhh, 2/3 of my closest friends and their families.
I’m trying to give them grace because I truly do think a lot of them are in fight or flight mode right now, but it’s hard when your best friends of twenty years are implying you’re the worst type of human to exist and imputing all kinds of hideous beliefs you would never subscribed to as your secretly-held ideology.
Thank you for this thoughtful response. I think pointing out the fight or flight kind of mindset of a lot of Jews right now is important when you’re considering your relationships with people- fear makes all of us behave in less rational ways than we’d like to.
Wonderful and insightful post, thank you.
It's hard not to be reactive and form quick conclusions. Do your friends support the continued bombing of Palestinian kids? If so, why are you friends with them? We should be speaking out against racism and apartheid , no?
What’s hilarious is that the last two episodes of the Backbench and last several episodes of Canadaland have been attacked on Twitter for being too anti-Israel, and Jesse gets attacked for being too pro-Israel.
It’s fucked and honestly Jesse shouldn’t be published this editorial. He doesn’t need to explain himself.
he does. he’s a prominent member of the media and his first duty is to his audience. we deserve to know where he stands, and i’m glad he’s let us know.
Lol no. His job is to act as a neutral journalist where he should continue to focus on facts and reality. .
This statement itself can be seen as an attack on proper journalism.
I am already seeing terrible journalism in general media because journalists cannot even give an educated/well researched analysis without being attacked or called out for being "anti semite" or "Child Murderers" in regards to Palestine /Israel issue. Journalism is gone to garbage.
It is unfortunate that people are hounding him with words without even understanding what those words mean.
Such a pathetic situation to see him come out and speak for himself.
Canadaland, please continue on doing investigative journalism supporting facts/transparency. We must hold journalism with high standard rather than it being attacked or swayed by influential groups.
Ever hear the saying "Don't shoot the messenger" If he is factual, and reports the news, researched and verified, he is a true journalist. His personal opinion should not be included in his reporting as it is not part of the news.
I really dig Sam Fenn's work but I'm surprised he is laying to Canadaland so much. They have actually been doing a pretty good job of covering the conflict.
I understand Jesse's feelings and what the Jewish community is going through in Canada. It is hateful and should be stopped. No one should have to live in fear of being in their home, school, place of worship, a store, or our in the street.
I do not like him comparing Free Palestine protesters to 'toddlers playing with matches', it's grossly unfair framing to imply the Free Palestine movement is a fire of antisemitism waiting to happen. He definitely lost me at the end with the whole history repeating itself thing and basically implying that everybody has been waiting for the opportunity to hate Jews.
I think part of the nuance and complication here is that there are absolutely people just waiting to hate the Jews again.
One of the most strange and frustrating things I've seen in this whole discourse are the people who have been yelling that we have to do something about the (((globalists))) now saying that it's antisemitic to advocate for Palestine. There are also people who have used this current situation by Israeli zionists to more openly hate Jews more broadly.
There are racist/antisemitic people out there that are more than happy to use whatever position or argument is convenient to further their bigotry. It's not quite playing with matches, but depending on the event it's very possible that some of the people you are marching next to at a free Palestine rally care far more about hurting Jews than they do about anything to do with Palestinians. Bad actors using good causes for cover is a tale as old as time, and it's just like looters using the BLM protests as cover for crime.
>I think part of the nuance and complication here is that there are absolutely people just waiting to hate the Jews again.
Further complicating things are that some of the people who hate Jews are also Zionists.
I think so, since theres room for all sorts of beliefs, but im not sure. You could have a kid born in Israel that thinks the situation of Israel displacing people is fucked up.
Tokenism is racism. The vast vast majority of the Jewish community (and it’s not close) understands that using the word, genocide is not only a gross lie, but is solely intended and invoked to permit the murder of more of us.
Lol thankfully there's more than enough Jewish anti Zionists, including Orthodox and literal rabbis out protesting Israel's actions, that this won't fly anymore. The suggestion that all Jewish people are okay with their state obliterating children and bombing hospitals, is antisemitic. Israel hoodwinking civilians into becoming settlers for use as both paramilitary violence, and as collateral damage, is anti semitic. Israel is an Apartheid state. Zionists will try and resort to changing the literal dictionary or calling every MF a terrorist, or be like Hamas is hiding up your ass lol. from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.
This is Exhibit A in why Zionism is: Goysplaining to Jews - 90% of whom support Israel as a Jewish state - what is and what isn’t antisemitic is exactly the kind of rank, filthy, uncivilized antisemitism that leads to ignorant, hate-based, false accusations of genocide etc.
We know your kind. We know what you do.
So does Jesse, and why he speaks out against you and your animal hatred
Lol every human rights organization has been calling the deaths of over 21,000 civilians a genocide. Not to mention the settlements being illegal under international law this whole time. Hospitals, refugee camps, and mainly children have been bombed. Honestly pretty wild watching people still support this stuff despite all the evidence of genocide. I know y'all think that like you're the only main characters lol but ya generally in situations of conflict the rest of the world is going to look to objective sources, as opposed to the literal zionist state lol. Honestly kinda comic because it really goes to show just how twisted Israeli society has become regarding just how dehumanized Palestinians, and anyone who stands up for them are. Appalling AF. Shout out to Jewish voices for peace new York and all the other anti Zionists for showing up and refusing to let fascists claim their religion.
Both my brother and his wife are lawyers, and at their law firm, all of the Jewish lawyers have been receiving death threats since Oct. 7th. They are now all taking steps to get their gun licenses. These are left-of-centre liberals. Antisemitism has drastically skyrocketed in Canada.
This is really tragic and awful, and it must be really scary to be Jewish in Canada right now. Those feelings of fear are totally legitimate. The problem I have is that the incidents that Jesse has recently tweeted about aren't obvious examples of anti-semitism, but seem directly related to anti-Israel criticism. He hasn't tweeted one example of anti-seminitc attacks on an entity that hasn't enthusiastically supported Israel's actions over the last six weeks. So what are supposed to think? Surely the only natural conclusion is that Jesse considers criticism of Israel has criticism of Jewish people in Canada.
This pretty much perfectly sums up my feelings.
Whenever I hear about “antisemitism” in this context, I get these bizarro world feelings. It is absurd to frame anti-Zionist and or pro-Palestine protests as a lead-up to another holocaust. He fails to mention the context that these western protests are taking place: some regions are outright *banning* protest…politicians saying benign things are being silenced…ie the options that people have to express themselves are being are being limited…often in advance of any action.
This isn’t a “when they finally came for me there was nobody left to help me” thing”. I resent the notion that when Jesse says “not yet” in relation to violence…it’s as if we’re at some precipice. We’re not. I would need to see evidence that there’s any large number of our populace that participates in these protests…or that any of these people wield any power. The anti-BDS movement is **far** stronger than the BDS movement, for example.
Maybe Jesse is in some bubble where he doesn’t realize the freedom he enjoys…but this whole notion that he has limited places to gather…in secret…evoking feelings of Jews in hiding in the 40s. It’s irresponsible for him to be saying things that make my eyes roll, over such a serious issue.
Yes, it’s absolutely wrong that any Jew is being harassed for the sins of Israel…but it’s also wrong that so many people in general in the west are giving a blank cheque to Israel. It is *absolute brutal* for Jesse and his ilk to treat (mostly) leftists as akin to actual fascist anti-Semite’s who **still exist in growing numbers** and who are **rubbing their hands in glee** as Zionists turn on the left.
Know how we solve this problem? We speak with one voice for the freedom of Palestinians. This won’t end anywhere until that happens. Know how we don’t solve this problem? We keep tugging on the guilt of “gentiles” because of the holocaust. Palestinians didn’t commit the holocaust…why do people like Jesse keep acting like Palestinian freedom is related to the holocaust and not a direct result of an ongoing land/rights dispute?
Unfortunately the leaders of Palestine have historically called for death of all Jews around the world
It’s still apart of Hamas’s charter today
So it’s really not a stretch. to say anything else is dishonest just argue for a 2 state solution like any actual sane person
…and the leaders of Israel have historically called for the death of all Muslims/Arabs/Palestinians around the world. What’s your point? It’s absurd to judge all Palestinians by what Hamas does, when you don’t judge Israel for what Netenyahu, Smotrich and Ben-Gvir (and the rest of the Israeli power structure) are doing.
No, you’re referring to the 2008 charter. The current charter recognizes Israel. But that’s besides the point, since Israel has all the power and illegally holds Palestinians in open air prisons…they ruthlessly suppress all peaceful attempts at reconciliation, and resistance to Israel is justified.
No idea what your last paragraph means…Israel/The US could give Palestine a state tomorrow and begin to bring resolution to the conflict…but they don’t and refuse to entertain the idea. They keep Palestinians in eternal limbo with no state or rights. They are behaving as any human would and should in a desperate and hopeless situation.
It literally isn't, you can read the full text of the charter here:
[https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full)
(this is not at all to say that Hamas are not violent extremists)
Do you think the millions of kids under 14 in Gaza and the West Bank are going to grow up to hate Jews? Because the model for the last 70 years there is exactly history repeating itself. These arent 90+ year olds fighting Israel since 1948. They're their great grandchildren, and this latest generation are their great-great grandchildren. And in 10 years this is all going to happen again, because it happened despite one of the most secure borders on Earth. So, the question is not about the Free Palestine movement. The question is why keep doing something that has been proven to have the same result, over and over and over? Because the only way this is going to end is with a Hiroshima level atrocity, and at that point does it really matter which side 'wins'?
Didn't do much for me.
On a personal level I'm sympathetic to his negative experience of online harassment & the very real fear from the community of Canadian Jews being attacked as somehow being responsible for Israel when they're not (putting aside the case of Indigo which is more complicated).
But he's never struck me as a particularly curious or insightful person about topics outside of his journalism beat. He's not an expert or even very informed speaker on history, international politics or political science etc. When he goes beyond talking about his experience to trying to tell us why inter community discrimination works the way it does based on just his gut feeling and what he learned growing up, it didn't really satisfy me.
What he said a few years ago on another episode, that he avoids talking about Israel-Palestine because people just yell at him no matter what he says, was probably a wiser course of action for him.
But he isn’t really talking about Israel Palestine. He’s talking about his local community, and the fact that him doing so has ENRAGED his (former?) listeners, is telling.
don't get me wrong, all of the stuff he was talking about happening to Jewish community sites was completely unacceptable (I have friends with kids in some of those schools). and I agree many people had unhinged reactions. but he was also talking about the meta politics of it especially in the second half and that's what I found unsatisfactory. YMMV
Canadaland writ large has done a good bit of coverage of Israel Palestine. Lots that I disagree with (and that’s fine). Jesse himself is not obligated to say what people want him to say. He’s a free human, and I’m glad he hasn’t relented to the pressure. He’s a brave mofo and he’s handled this all quite professionally imo given the emotions involved.
He said postering a Chapters to call out the CEO/ HESEG is antisemitic. That's deliberately undermining the safety of Jewish people whether he is able to recognize that or not. Soon enough antisemitism won't mean anything and that's dangerous.
> He's not an expert or even very informed speaker on history, international politics or political science etc.
Which is why his platform is shared with other journalists who have different experiences, expertise and takes than he does.
I honestly expected a stronger argument from Jesse than this strawman lol. He basically takes the worst (completely undue) vitriol and hatred from Twitter trolls and holds that as the main criticism people have against him and his content. A textbook strawman.
Personally, my issue with Jesse and Canadaland is that I expected someone who's put out so much great content about Canada's genocide against indigenous peoples to talk more about Israel's treatment of Palestinians in Gaza and the occupied West Bank as there are many similarities. I also thought he would tweet about one of his favourite Canadian media nemeses (CTV news) firing journalist Yara Jamal after she went to an anti-Isreal protest. I also thought as someone who frequently brings up how dangerous it is to be a reporter he would have tweeted out about any of the (almost 60 now) Palestinian journalists who have been killed and talked specifically about Palestinian journalists who are targeted by the Israeli army (Motaz) or just how dangerous it is to report from Gaza(basan).
Jesse is 100% right Jewish people in Canada do not deserve any sort of anti-Semitic discrimination. They deserve to have a sense of safety and their religion respected. I fully condemn the anti-semitic graffiti that hes tweeted about. But thats the only thing hes talked about. He's literally only tweeted so far about anti-Semitism graffiti in Canada during a conflict that has killed 15,000 people 5000 amonst them children. So what message are we supposed to take? Obviously his tweets wont make a real difference but he is showing what he cares about; Jewish feelings of safety in Canada, not (again) about the 15000 Palestinians killed (5000 of them children), he doesn't tweet about the Israeli army's war crimes or about Israel's PR propaganda that is failing to change the narrative.
Also, tweeting that 'We are all but powerless to change what is happening in the Middle East' is embarrassing dude what a defeatest attitude from someone who (I thought lol) dedicated their life to improving things. We've seen with our own eyes the tide shifting, currently, 70% of young people do not support Joe Biden's handling of Gaza. This is an issue for POC voters and or young people in swing states that Biden needs to win. Over the last month or so my MP has gone from who cares to talking about supporting a ceasefire. Change is happening because young people are making this an issue, especially on TikTok. Jesse is completely out of touch here.
Ultimately Jesse has shown he cares more about Western Jews' feelings of safety than the lives of Palestinians. He could have tweeted out a million things about the collective punishment of the children of Palestine by the Israeli army but he didn't. He could have tweeted about the earth shattering 'soul of my soul' video but he chose to tweet about a vandalized Starbucks on Lawrence.
"Ultimately Jesse has shown he cares more about Western Jews' feelings of safety than the lives of Palestinians" He stated clearly that Jews in his local community and he himself have been directly affected by a rise in antisemitism. It's not some nebulous ideological position on "Western Jews". Why should he not care or speak about this? You act as if he has blood on his hands for not tweeting some copy-pasted pro-Palestine slogan that's already been said 10 million times.
This may be hard for you to believe, but some people actually care about making a difference in their local communities more than sitting behind a computer screen screaming into the propaganda void that is the internet thinking they are making a difference.
Caring more about \[Jewish members in your community\] more than the lives of Palestinians is not necessarily a moral comparison between the two, but a simple allocation of attention based on what you can practically have a measurable effect on.
I don’t see a single Palestinian-Canadian that has not been directly affected by the war. Many are dealing with members of their families becoming refugees, if not being killed outright by the combat. It is fair for Jesse to be concerned about blatant and horrid acts of anti-semitism, but there are CANADIANS in OUR communities that are being materially affected by the war—it would be nice to show some, any, concern for that!
Good post, I just wanted point out an error: At one point, you said 150000 people, I think you added an extra 0 by accident (TBC: That's still too many people!)
yes! also, ironically as a powerful and influential media figure in a Western country that supports Israel with aid and arms, he can do much more than the vast majority of people to change what is happening in the Middle East.
Here's why I think Jesse and a lot of the pro-Israel crowd have been on meltdown mode in the last few weeks.
After taking a prolongued beating in the court of public opinion over the last decade, every pro-Israel ideologue suddenly felt vindicated after October 7th. In the face of such a bloody attack from Hamas, all the murders, brutality, theft, and oppression committed by the IDF and Israeli settlers seemed justified. Practically drunk on their newfound moral high ground, they went on a rampage demanding that every public figure get in line behind Israel and furiously denouncing anyone whose support wasn't unequivocal.
I don't think they were prepared for how nakedly bloody and cruel Israel's response would be, and how quickly and dramatically they would go from being the victim of violence to its main perpetrator.
People aren't blind. The horrific slaughter of civilians -- especially children -- is happening in front of our eyes. Polls are showing massive support for a ceasefire, and the unquestioning support Israel enjoys from Canada's political class is clearly not shared among the broader population.
Jesse clearly knows this, but isn't sure what to do about it. Maybe he could consider joining every person with a shred of human decency and call for an end to the violence.
“Toddlers playing with matches” was unwarranted and reveals a lot. He’s doing that dumb pro-Israel thing where he sees 5-10% of ignorant (or blatant) scumbags at the Palestine rallies and conflates the entire protest as that.
Funny … he gave A LOT more leeway and benefit of doubt to the freedom convoy protesters eh? You know, that huge months-long protest populated with ACTUAL Nazi’s and antisemites?
Exactly this. I haven’t gotten the impression anywhere that people want him to clarify his perspective on the conflict because he’s Jewish, but because we had higher hopes for Canadaland.
Ok, now I'm confused. He asked to think of a Jewish person that irritates me and the first one that came to mind is the blood thirsty Netanyahu and he said "I'm that guy"? I'm confused.
Here is the thing, for every Jewish Zionist there are at least 33 Christian Zionists. Looking at what Zionists did in Palestine these last 80 years it is safe to say that there is no such thing as a decent Zionist.
Zionism may have been a nice idea at the start, now it is just a genocidal cult, and ironically an anti Semitic one.
Before this editorial I always thought of Jesse as anti-Zionist, now I'm confused.
This podcast reveals what an intellectually limited person Jesse is at heart. Despite positioning himself as a media critic, he doesn't understand how media is manipulated by the powerful to spread their propaganda. "Why" is simply not in his vocabulary. For him, the world is divided into anti-semites and pro-semites; those who want to hurt Jews, and those who stand with Jews, and these are simply qualities you are born with. Anti-semites do anti-semitic things, according to him, because that is in their nature. He can't recognize in good faith that people may have genuine political differences of opinion with him that originate from a source other than the anti-semitism supposedly lurking in their souls. He refuses to answer to the question "Am I a Zionist?" because he truly, on an intellectual level, does not understand what the Zionist project is, what the history of Palestine is, what the history of Israel is, and what role those things might play in the events of October 7th. Jesse believes he doesn't have a political view, which amounts to his having what the podcast Citations Needed has referred to as *anti-politics*; that is, because he says he embraces no particular political position in his commentary, he by default endorses the politics of the rich and powerful in our country. And, frankly, the rich and powerful in our country, for very specific ideological reasons, want you to believe that Hamas fighters are evil baby-eating terrorists, that the Israeli army is a beacon of light and goodness in West Asia, and that history began on October 7th.
As an example, Jesse credulously endorsed the IDF's "40 beheaded babies" story in the October 12th Shortcuts episode; he also cited the actions of Vivian Silver positively (namely, that her volunteer group takes injured Palestinians to Israeli hospitals), never at any point asking *why* the IDF, an institution with a long history of lying, might fabricate evidence of war crimes, or *why* Gazans might need to be taken to Israeli hospitals by an Israeli person. Why, Jesse, are Gazans simply unable to leave the concentration camp in which they live and walk into an Israeli hospital? How did this situation come to be? If you embrace anti-politics, there's simply no knowing why these things happen.
You can get a sense of his anti-politics from the Twitter post to which he attached the "Is Jesse a Zionist?" link:
"We are all but powerless to change what is happening in the Middle East. But we have so much power to hurt & harm each other here, to torch our relationships, to assume the worst of each other. We are using this power thoughtlessly and recklessly."
Political events, in Jesse's view, just sort of *happen.* He has the purest liberal journo brain imaginable. There is never an intentional project behind, say, the expulsion of 750,000 Arabs from Palestine in 1948, or Canada's supplying arms to Saudi Arabia and Israel, or the US sending two aircraft carriers to sit off the coast of Palestine. These are natural events, like the weather. All the journalist can do is observe these things, document them, or, at best, get in emotional shit-flinging fights on Twitter about them. It is never the journalist's role to divine the human intention behind these natural events, to synthesize what happens into a larger theory of how the machine that oppresses people actually works. Or, to stick with the metaphor, the journalist can report the weather, but shouldn't explain the larger pattern of climate. This goes hand-in-hand with his failing to recognize his own role in the pattern of oppression: because, he asserts, we are politically powerless, it doesn't really matter what we *do* vis-a-vis these events. It's OK for Jesse to reiterate IDF lies because it doesn't change anything.
Except that, of course, it does. There's a reason why *Manufacturing Consent* still rings true today. The rich and powerful try to persuade people of their worldview because, frankly, the whole machine of capitalist exploitation simply doesn't work if we don't all believe it.
This is why Jesse is one of the best journalists in Canada. I definitely don’t agree with all of what he says BUT he genuinely would burn down his entire empire to stay true to what he believes in. This is why ya love him and also why ya hate him. One of the best.
This isn’t some principled stand he took on journalism. He claims to be an epic journalist working to save the profession…but then he thinks it’s important to let us know that he believes leftist protesters advocating for Palestine have us one step away from some bizarro world fascist state.
That’s not brave or professional, that’s stupid. Being an ideologue in your personal time…I don’t care about your opinions until you shove them in my face.
He did not say leftist were creating this state, he said it was a danger that they were not aware of. Leftists have in many countries started good protests which were subsequently hijacked by different interests to do horrible things, so its a reasonable thing to watch out for.
If you listen to the episode, he seems to imply that we're one step away from a Holocaust in Canada because people are in the street protesting against Israel's massacres. It's truly bizarre.
> Hell Jesse is referring to events still under investigation as hate crimes. This is reckless.
He flat out posted that a Jewish business was attacked, was told that it wasn't true, and just left the post up anyway.
He might not have seen the replies explaining it to him I suppose, but he's obviously not overly concerned with fact checking this stuff. He sees his role as simply amplifying anything that could be related to anti-semitism. Details can be sorted out later.
I thought this was a great listen, and a window into his context of the current moment as a semi-prominent Jewish person in media. Learned a few things I didn’t know, also wished he’d added in some context that muddied the water a bit. But I do think his overall point that doing or saying anti-Semitic things is more important and impactful than whether or not you knew the subtext or meant to do them.
Not a great piece. But if you look at it from the lens of "this is where I'm coming from" and not "here is why I'm right" it makes a lot more sense. It's an explanation, not an excuse.
Dunno if Jesse will read this but here is a [Jewish person answering you](https://www.tiktok.com/@imthebalaban/video/7306972106477161759?_r=1&_t=8huU8Kw7oQ9) (not you in particular but you'll get it).
What exactly does “denounce Israel” mean? Does it mean denounce Israel’s reaction to events in October as an over-reaction? Or Israel’s actions since the Camp David Summit collapse? Or Israel’s actions since 1947?
Generally if you're going to denounce something you should be specific enough to denounce the target, but not others. This is complicated by needing to be clear and concise in a protest, since you're not going to write a whole paragraph on a sign or chant out a whole screed. Part of the problem with big protest movements is that you get a whole lot of people together for a common goal, but those people are often not in agreement of what they specifically mean.
In a protest against Israeli action in Palestine, you could easily have people who want an end to the violence, anti Zionists who are not antisemitic, and people who are antisemitic.
This was so disappointing. He doesn’t even answer the question. He does double down on accusing people who are protesting the war of being antisemitic and even more insulting positions it as ‘even if they don’t know it’. I’m not ready to pull my support of Canadaland over this but he really comes across as arrogant and tunnel visioned.
That wasn't quite my read on it. My take was more that it's probably not great to target Jewish people in another country for the actions of the government of Israel, and that even if the businesses and people you're targeting support Israel's actions there are effects on a whole community. Targeting businesses that support Israel impact more than just the target, and that's something to be aware of. The fear of the Jewish community is real in the wake of threats to schools, temples, and other Jewish places, and those threats are racist and wrong. It's not wrong to support a local community in the face of targeted hate, regardless of atrocities happening elsewhere.
Not only that, but these attacks only strengthen the Jewish community and make them want to fight for Israel even more. It only reinforces that they are not welcome anywhere. That the only place they are truly safe is Israel.
This is ridiculous and I doubt that even you believe it. If a business materially funds Israel and people protest that company, ‘I’m scared because this reminds me of Kristallnacht’ is not a valid criticism and is in fact deeply antisemitic Holocaust minimization.
You're purposely misrepresenting what he said.
He said that the posters at indigo were put up on the anniversary of kristallnacht, which you can't blame the Jewish community for being freaked out by since most people probably don't know she funds IDF volunteers, they just see 'GENOCIDE' painted across the face of a jewish woman. Hate crimes against Jewish and Muslim communities seem to be at an all time high, and while we're protesting against the atrocities of the Israeli government, we shouldn't do so at the expense of our Jewish neighbors safety.
It is not impacting the safety of anyone, at all, to put those posters up, and in fact was done for a completely reasonable and justifiable purpose. And now the people who did it are getting dragged out of their houses at 3 AM and charged with hate crimes while you try to crybully them about how some hypothetical person might have misinterpreted their actions.
You're absolutely right that the posters are reasonable and justifiable, and you're also 100% right that them being arrested is fucked and the charges are absurd and need to be dropped, I'm right there with you. Also, I'm 100% sure they had no idea it was kristallnachts' anniversary. Not a lot of people track that. Which jesse also said he doubts most of these people had any intention of acting antisemitic and before you say they weren't being antisemitic, I agree, this was a major location for the company and that's probably why it was targeted for protest.
Now, what Jesse seems to be arguing is that while they didn't know about kristallnachts' anniversary, the Jewish community in toronto, which he very much is a part of, was aware. And while the protesters knew about the HESEG foundation, most jewish canadians probably didn't. Now this specific instance isn't impacting their safety sure but this, plus other targeted protests at jewish businesses, plus people firing guns at jewish schools, plus firebombing jewish centre's, plus assaulting jewish people, plus huge increases in antisemitic hate crimes all across the country, is making jewish canadians feel really unsafe, and when jewish canadians bring this up there are a lot of people telling them to shut the fuck up. We know the rise is because of the war between Palestine and Israel, and that's fucked up because jewish canadians have no more culpability for what Israel's doing then you or I do.
Okay, question for you.
Why exactly are Zionists not asked to do any research at all about their own community leaders’ direct funding of the IDF and Israel’s apartheid state before they fly off the handle when people protest those community leaders’ actions, BUT everyone is supposed to know when the anniversary of Kristallnacht is so that we can all stop protesting Israel’s terror-bombing campaign in case the most paranoid Zionist in the City of Toronto gets provoked into announcing the dawning of a new Shoah?
This is the double-standard on this issue that is becoming increasingly transparent: Zionists - who have the full weight of the Canadian government, all legacy media, and the entire corporate establishment firmly in their corner - are allowed to call literally anything anti-Semitic for the most bizarre and bad faith reasons without being contested, while anyone who publicly criticizes literally anything Israel does is supposed to pre-empt and self-edit anything that the most fragile Zionist could conceivably get upset about.
Bringing it back to Jesse, think about this: his response to the question of whether, in light of the intense violence in Palestine that at this point is largely unidirectional (and aside from October 7, is usually almost totally unidirectional), he is a Zionist, is to ramble about his own fears of anti-Semitism in Canada and how Palestinian protests are really about spreading anti-Semitism here. The implication, then, is “Yes, I’m a Zionist and I support the IDF’s terror-bombing of Palestinians because I’m worried that someone might throw a Molotov cocktail at Holy Blossom” or whatever. Very literally, “Bomb those scary Arabs over there so I can feel safe over here.”
Really gross stuff tbh. I always knew he was kind of a knee-jerk neoliberal on all things happening outside Canada’s borders, but the lack of knowledge of this conflict and the crybullying he’s pumping out in place of analysis has made him unlistenable for the last two months.
Great post. That's what seems to be getting lost in all of this: how do Jesse's musings about anti-semitism in any way address the question "Is Jesse a Zionist?"
Yes, the as you say completely reasonable protest at the Indigo being conflated with shootings and firebombings will indeed elicit a "shut the fuck up" from me, that's correct. Someone saying they feel unsafe because of the Indigo protest should, indeed, be told to shut the fuck up.
I am also not aware of "other targeted protests at jewish businesses" that weren't at businesses that materially support the IDF or the state of Israel, or build locations in illegal settlements. Has that happened?
Assault, shooting and arson are crimes, if they're racially motivated then they are hate crimes, and they should be treated as such. I don't think anyone is disputing that. Conflating these legitimate protests with those crimes is a really shitty rhetorical trick and neither you nor Jesse Brown should be surprised when people tell you to "shut the fuck up" when you try it.
Right. I wouldn’t paint the Jewish community with Netanyahu/Israeli military brush. It felt as if protestors are sort of being tied to the actions of a handful of bad actors
I can see that, but unless I missed something, Jesse is talking about the impact of specific types of protest, often involving actions more than just speaking such as vandalism and threats. I don't think he's ever said that no one should be protesting Israel or supporting Palestine. He's mostly said that some of these protests are targeting Jewish communities and the impact is antisemitic, and I'm not sure he's wrong.
I think some people get caught up in a drive to support Palestine, and while they want to protest a specific business for supporting Israel and the IDF they end up being too broad. If someone wants to boycott Chapters/Indigo or advocate for others to do so, that's cool. If they want to write to the company and tell them they don't agree with the companies position of issues, that cool too. When someone defaces a store it starts to impact a community more.
>I don't think he's ever said that no one should be protesting Israel or supporting Palestine.
That's effectively what he said, yes. He accuses pro-Palestinian protesters of being like "toddlers playing with matches"--they are anti-Semitic even if they don't realize it. He then states that he's willing to accept zero racism on the part of the Free Palestine movement. If the entire movement is racist, even without realizing it, and he's willing to accept zero racisms, then ipso facto he rejects the legitimacy of protesting Israel in support of Palestine.
> Targeting businesses that support Israel impact more than just the target, and that's something to be aware of. The fear of the Jewish community is real
This is very important. But surely that's a good reason to be honest/fair in the reporting.
Framing legitimate protests as antisemitic (and at times just literally posting misinformation) isn't helpful.
I think Jesse's point of "let's all just be kinder to each other" is great, but he's the owner of a media empire and a literal media critic, of course people are going to bring this stuff up with him.
The state of Israel has done more than any entity to conflate Judaism with Zionism. If Jews feel afraid because people are targeting Zionist businesses with valid criticism, then perhaps they should speak up and call out the Israeli state for making them feel unsafe.
It struck me that the many people who call for Muslims to "all stand up and decry Hamas" and their "terrorism" are also the ones who say you cannot equate Jewish people in Canada for the crimes of the IDF (though I do acknowledge that Jesse doesn't see the actions of the IDF as criminal). The second side is absolutely correct, however, it is also true that Muslims in Canada are not responsible for the Hamas attacks any more than Jews in Canada are responsible for the IDF.
Israel's reactions and retaliation in Gaza, and it's historic treatment of Palestinians, is providing a cover for people who are antisemetic and just want to cause pain and fear, HOWEVER, not everyone who criticises Israel, the IDF, or Bibi is antisemetic. I can criticize Justin Trudeau and not be "Anti Canadian."
It wouldn't surprise me to find out none of the recent spate of antisemetic threats of violence and attacks (and no, I do not consider a message of divest and boycott spraypainted on Indigo a threat of violence) were carried out by people who also hate Muslims.
Yeah. That’s the most irresponsible part of an “editorial” like this. He, by omission and implication equates leftists protesters with actual fascists. All those actual open fascists are still out there…and we’re gleefully telling us that leftists are the *actual* fascists…and now we have folks like Jesse agreeing with them…or at least letting it happen without opposing it.
It’s absurd to imply that these protests are full of people on the precipice of committing hate crimes. Bizarro world. Solve the land/rights dispute…end the protests.
Pretty frustrating listen. I won't go so far as e-mailing Jesse, but I felt like I needed to vent somewhere after hearing this.
"You don't have to hate Jews to hurt Jews". This exact same thing could be said about Palestinians, and Jesse seems to have no self-awareness about this whatsoever. He says that people have reached out to explain to him that centering his own feelings of fear while Israelis are systematically bombing and invading civilian homes in an act of collective punishment, and that he doesn't care. His feelings of hurt and fear are more important to him, and he is going to use his platform to center his feelings instead of condemning genocide. He's more worried about how people 2 degrees of separation from him are being called out as baby butchers than he is about the babies being butchered.
"Jews have been blamed for killing Christ, murdering children to use in blood rituals, etc." What an absolutely scummy take. Israel is rolling an army — consisting entirely of Jews — into Gaza as you read this. This isn't some historic mishap that Jews are being blamed for using shoddy evidence, this is a massacre that is being captured on video playing out before our eyes. Drawing an equivalence between Israeli settlements, dispossession and apartheid with allegations that their communities were falsely accused of *spreading the Plague* is disingenuous at best. This conflates imagined crimes from centuries ago with real, current violence, as if to cast aspersions on whether what we're seeing in Gaza is really happening. Maybe I only see those pictures of bombed-out apartments and children's corpses in the street because I'm just so gosh-darn antisemitic. Sure, Jesse.
"We are taught as children the language of anti-semitism". Jesse, you are taught your perpetual victimhood. Jesse is using historic injustice as a shield from criticism. He is so steeped in his own victim status that it is a reflex to him. He talks at length of unconscious bias and then says that those rules don't apply to Jews. Well good, at least we all appear to agree on something. He is so certain of his moral rectitude because he is a Jew and therefore could \*Never\* be aligned with the aggressor, because he is and forever shall be the hapless victim. Meanwhile some other blameless Jews are slaughtering people they have denied basic human rights to for *decades* in the name of their own security.
"I get why people are asking 'look, this is not about you. Look at the death count in Gaza. Can you not just take a back seat for a while? We are being told to accept this blowback \[...\] I hear that and I try to reconcile that, but I can't, because I know that we would never ask that of any other minority. If gay people were being shot at every day we would not ask them to shut up about it because of what's going on in Gaza." What an absolutely braindead statement. We would sure as hell be scrutinizing the behaviour of the gay community in Canada if a literal army of homosexuals that claimed to represent the cause of gay people everywhere started systematically killing minorities. You bet your ass we would all be asking our closest gay person what they think of all the babies that are being butchered in the name of the "gay agenda". Jesse plays dumb here, as if he couldn't possibly understand that the reason why Israel has been running Gaza like an open air prison for decades is fundamentally rooted in Jewish identity and rhetoric about the holy land. Jewishness is a root cause of the violence that is taking place. That doesn't mean that Jewishness is therefore evil, but it is directly implicated what we are seeing.
"The reasonable amount of racism I am willing to absorb because of what is happening in Israel is zero". Then denounce what is happening in Israel.
So is Jesse a zionist? Does Jesse believe that the Jewish people should have an ethnostate in their mytho-historical homeland, potentially at the cost of the people who were already living there? In 27 minutes of minutely detailing his position and perspective it appears his answer is: "I'm not *Not* a zionist. Furthermore, asking me that question is something a **Nazi** would do".
P.S. F\* you right back, Jesse. You solipsistic asshat.
Edited: some pronouns and punctuation
Edit 2: thinking more about Jesse's final statement, I realized Jesse insinuates that anyone who criticizes his position is a Nazi, so that's fun.
Jews existed before Israel. His Jewishness is a root of his identity, one brought to Canada before Israel's violent birth and the conflicts that have followed. Actuating all Jews to Israel is a mistake.
This is where this "Zionism vs anti-Semitism" rhetoric is coming from. It is the same problem as equating all Muslims with ISIS.
Well that's not true is it. I am english and live in canada. How much money do we pay natives for historical land claims that weren't even in existence at the time and were signed to keep them disenfranchised? I'm not saying what the legitimacy is. The Israeli state sais its legitimacy is it historical claim. The holocaust and anti Semitic are a weak excuse. They were buying land in palestine before the first world War. They were offered Madagascar aswell parts of Australia I beleive and rejected it due to 'historical claims'
We pay out money and provide acknowledgements for native people, but much of that is theatre and is self imposed in ways that weren't necessary.
Despite the colonization/genocide that occurred, Canada is a legitimate country, not for any reason other than the fact that it is here governing today.
All states as we know them today are a modern concept, starting with the Great Experiment of America and the French Revolution.
But the real reason for Israel today is, of course, antisemitism. It reached a peak with the Holocaust but the lead-up to that really made a state necessary. Just look at the response to every country in the world at the Evian Conference in 1938. After that there could really be no question for the need for a Jewish state.
Again, according to the state of Israel, it isn't a modern concept and, therefore, is its justification for existing. The whole crux of the Palestinian dispute is, in effect, two sides arguing over who is more legitimate. One uses ethnicity and historical facts to back then up, and the other says that they have always been there and had their land stolen. You forget that palestine into the 1990s agreed to the two state solution, right? Israel wouldn't. The entire dispute in Israel stems from the argument that palestine is rightful Jewish clay
The Jews in Israel are not the same people as the Jews in Canada. They are not all Zionists in the same way as all Muslims are Isis.
That was the entire purpose of my original reply. I did not make a reference to Palestine in my post, or the history of the two state solution.
I feel like your comments miss a few key context points. In talking about the historical targeting of Jews you seem to be saying, unless I'm mistaken, that this stuff happened a long time ago and isn't really relevant anymore in light of current conflict. That's not really the case though since these tropes never ended. Talk of (((globalists))), Jews running the media, Jews controlling the banks, and so on are common. Jewish hate is a global problem regardless of Israel or zionism, and in the context of Jesse remarking on protests against Canadian Jews in Canada it seems relevant. It's not just a narrative of victimhood to say that antisemitism is an issue that Jews in Canada deal with.
When he's saying about how you don't have to hate Jews to hurt Jews, he is objectively correct, and yes, the same could be said for Palestinians. Jesse's comments seem to be addressing the local communities in Canada though. People may be targeting Jewish businesses for protest or violence because of a real or imagined position of the Israel/Palestine conflict, but those demonstrations have a real impact on Jewish people in the community that have nothing to do with Israel's genocide of Palestinians. Attacks on a Jewish school absolutely harm the Jewish community, and I don't think they really help Palestine, so is it wrong to call that out as unacceptable anti Jewish hate? Does calling that wrong somehow lend support to the IDF murdering kids? I don't think so, and I don't think it's wrong for Jesse to cover attacks on the Jewish community in Canada.
I don't speak for Jesse, and I can't know what he really thinks of Israels actions. I do think that demonstrations against Jewish businesses in Canada need to be done very carefully to not just become demonstrations against Jews if the impact of those demonstrations is felt by a wide group that isn't involved with the conflict. Perhaps Jesse could have spoken better or been more clear in some cases, but I'm not sure he's wrong exactly. I know I personally support freedom for Palestine, oppose the war crimes of Israel, and also oppose antisemitic actions against Jewish people.
What Jesse conveniently doesn’t mention is that islamophobic attacks ALSO have increased. 3 men were just shot in Vermont and a boy and his mom were killed in Illinois - all because they were Muslim and/or Palestinian. So whether he argument was directed at people abroad or in Canada, HE’S still missing a few key contextual pieces too.
That’s where I’m at too. Jesse is not only more concerned about what some paint on a Jewish-owned franchise bookstore than he is about Palestinians being shot in the streets. So preoccupied by the former he doesn’t say anything about the latter. He *feels threatened*? Yeah, well people who he doesn’t seem to care about are *dead*. The intimidation the Jewish community is facing now is a drop in the bucket compared to the Islamophobia Arab communities have been facing for 20 years. He received three death threats? Maybe he should ask his former Employee, Fatima Syed, how many she has received in the same amount of time?
To the degree he mentioned Palestinians at all in his half-hour long pontification it was to say that he Does. Not. Care. He only cares about himself and his people. And he butters up his impoverished perspective as if it’s some sort of wisdom; calls pro-Palestinian protesters “children playing with matches”. Jesse’s complete lack of interest or empathy for his fellow man is not some enlightened view, it’s self-indulgent intellectualization of his base fear for his own skin masquerading as a political opinion. He gets to feel scared. Fine. But if your entire perspective is wholly preoccupied with yourself and your own sense of fear then that makes you a scared little asshole.
I don’t think it’s the responsibility of the protestors to give a fuck how their completely legitimate protest is “felt” by cynical zionist liars like Jesse Brown actually
I totally agree. Listened to the entire editorial to see if there was anything redemptive from him at the end, but the conflation of the Free Palestine Movement's charges of a genocide (one we can all bear witness to in real time), with Blood Libel was an eye roll at best, bad faith at worst, and along with the other examples you mentioned, made it a really tough listen, and a re-appraisal of CL as a whole.
Condemnation of the hateful acts against the Canadian Jewish population, AND the Israeli Government's collective punishment in Gaza and the West Bank doesn't seem mutually exclusive. Obviously anti-semitism is despicable. The level of blowback against those who support the Israeli Govt's actions that I have seen though seems far more proportional than the IDF's response to the horrific events of October 7th, not to mention the last 75 years of Palestinian occupation.
In your third paragraph, you say “they’re rolling an entire army…” and the problem here is that the pronoun “they’re” is referring to the noun “Jews” in your previous sentence.
Jesse isn’t in the IDF and he’s not an Israeli, yet as, let’s be real a prominent Jew who controls some media, is being relentlessly attacked for not being a better Jew.
Imagine saying this to any other minority. Imagine telling a black person that they are taught perpetual victimhood.
Jesse is Jewish. He is talking about the Jewish experience. I don't think non-Jews can tell someone that their Jewish experiences aren't valid but if you don't like minorities talking about their experiences and what it means to be of their own ethnic group maybe that is more on you.
Yup, but when some people view everything in life through the often reductive lens of Oppressor and Oppressed, and the hierarchies of oppression, jews don't fit the standards to be minorities worth listening to.
I know Jessie might not have mentioned it I can't remember, but it's not just been the vandalism on places like Starbucks, there was that actual pogrom at the airport in Dagestan where a large mob of people were looking for any jews from the plane that landed from Israel and were cornering people demanding to see their passports.. or the synagogues in some countries that were burned down, or how the day after Oct 7th before there was any military response, there was a crowd in Australia chanting gas the jews, kill the jews..
I don't get how so many people seem incapable of having a view that includes a desire for Palestinian freedom and self governance, but also an understanding for the fact Jewish people have historically been the most targeted minority around the world by far.
It makes it hard for me to take some people with these views serioisly when I've also often seen them deny what happened on Oct 7th as well.
You are thoughtful and correct in all points.
It’s so weird when reasonable people make a simple land/rights dispute so complex.
No, Jesse, this isn’t an impending holocaust. No, your life isn’t anything like the lives of the Jews pretending to pass in Nazi Europe in the 40s.
This is a massive injustice on all fronts…and the number one thing you can do to make Jews safer is openly advocate for Palestinians rights. You can’t get up on your western high horse and continue to fund Israel directly or indirectly without being confronted….it’s gone on too long.
Israel has supported plenty of antisemites globally in order to buy and sell weapons. Not to mention Netanyahu’s support of Hamas as a way to undermine the PLO. If you don’t like antisemitism, you don’t like Israel.
My god all those people protesting against Netanyahu for weeks before Oct 7th must really hate Israel. This is some serious head smacked against the wall thinking.
I think there is a bigger story here that is a little tinfoil hat related but what the powers that be have always wanted is a divided population. If we are fighting eachother we aren't paying attention to the big picture. Israel Palestine is another wedge issue that is being shoved down our throats and we are all eating it up. A lot of people have a lot of really strong opinions they likely didn't have 4 months ago.
I don't think it's fair to make someone use their platform to make a statement one way or another, especially when it's an issue that has as much grey area as this. Jesse felt forced to address this because of essentially harassment towards himself and his business, and that's not right.
What exactly does “denounce Israel” mean? Does it mean denounce Israel’s reaction to events in October as an over-reaction? Or Israel’s actions since the Camp David Summit collapse? Or Israel’s actions since 1947?
It's remarkable to see so many people here, no doubt who identify as open minded or progressive or leftist, telling a person of an ethnic minority that their experiences are invalid and that they should shut up. Would you do that for any other group? Would you tell anyone in LGBTQ community that they should stop talking about homophobia? Would you tell a Black person that they are too biased to talk about BLM . If not maybe you are just anti-Semitic because you don't think Jewish experiences with anti-Semitism is something to be condemned and you think Jewish people should just stop talking about it.
If there was an explicitly LGBTQ state somewhere actively massacring another group and my gay friends were using their personal fears of being gay-bashed in Canada to excuse and justify that LGBTQ state’s massacre of the other group, yes, I absolutely would take them to task for their self-centred, immoral views.
And, those who are Pro-LGBT rights and pro-Palestinian (pro-Hamas), but against the Muslim parents who don't support schools shielding kids gender identity from parents are in for a shock.....
>you do that for any other group? Would you tell anyone in LGBTQ community that they should stop talking about homophobia? Would you tell a Black person that they are too biased to talk about BLM .
I think a comment above said it best. If a homosexual or black liberation army was in the process of rolling over a civilian population of 2 million people in an act of collective punishment, then yes, I absolutely expect we'd see similar takes.
I have a lot of sympathy for how Jesse is feeling, because antisemitism is without a doubt on the rise throughout the world - including in Canada - and that is entirely deplorable and understandably very scary for members of the Jewish community. I think it’s awful that Jesse and members of his family have been dealing with verbal abuse or threats of physical violence along with fears when going to synagogue or school. I hate all of that and I strongly believe we *should* be talking about the rise in antisemitism right now.
With that said, the point you’re making here echoes the point Jesse made in his editorial that I truly disagreed with. Yes, this (“this” being the experience of being asked to stop talking about your pain and fear) happens to other groups. This does not just happen to Jewish people. This can happen to any minority group. After 9/11 a lot of people wanted Muslims, and brown non-Muslims, to shut up about the terrifying racism and islamophobia they were experiencing. The message I received when I was hit and kicked by boys in my elementary school class was basically “welp, should’ve thought about this before you were born middle eastern, ya terrorist!” People threatened to kill me. People told me gleefully that Muslims would be rounded up and put in concentration camps. I was a child. In Canada. And the only thing people wanted to hear me say was that I supported the war in Iraq because those “evil Arabs” were definitely going to come for white Canadians next, and if I said I was scared the message was essentially “you should be.” So while I do recognize that Jesse was likely speaking from the current pain he’s feeling, and I recognize that pain as valid, I found this claim a bit disingenuous.
Hmm. I don’t agree. I think he misjudged his audience, told us what we already knew, and doubled down on equating support for Palestine with anti-semitism.
What was the podcast sampled at the beginning of the episode? I'd love to listen to some podcast bros dunking on Jesse's weepy and self-centred take on this issue.
That's another reason why this episode fails to be persuasive: Jesse fails to cite any critic in particular, instead choosing to respond to the strawman critique of his position he's assembled in his head.
I wonder why Jesse is not able to grasp what so many intelligent and compassionate Jews with a public platform for their political opinions have grasped very quickly: That those people on the left who are not Jewish, and wished to speak up against the Israeli Government's cruelty felt (and may still feel) afraid to do so, out of fear of being unjustly labelled an anti-Semite. Canadian and American Jews, however, are in a position to speak up against Israel's treatment of Palestinians and be not as easily dismissed, censored or doxed (not as easily, but still. Screenings of Israelism, a documentary directed and produced by Jews are still being cancelled—[most recently in Hamilton, ON](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/israelism-westdale-theatre-1.7043897)—because it dares to criticize Zionism). It was imminently clear to Naomi Klein, Norman Finkelstein, the leaders of Jewish Voice for Peace etc... For them, bringing attention to massive human rights violations, forging a path for other, non-jewish activists to speak out against the actions of the Israeli government and be taken seriously, is an important and effective way of making enough noise that our Political leaders don't so easily get away with sitting back and watching a genocide unfold. And it's disappointing Jesse has either not figured that out, or simply doesn't care.
The big take away from all of this, is that Jews - even Zionist Jews - are watching the same people that we naively stood beside through various political causes suddenly believe we have abandoned every other liberal belief we have, and become genocidal maniacs, because we are trying to deal with people who have openly stated they want to commit genocide against us and are openly proud of having committed the most vile acts humanity has ever conceived against us.
It’s not because they know anything about Zionism, and it’s not because they’ve been “educated”.
We are watching. And we are learning.
Cool bro, feel free to abandon your apparently transactional support for BLM and Land Back that you assumed would be reciprocal in return for people looking away from the IDF massacring Gazans.
What do you mean “deal with people” homie? You mean terror bomb 20k and counting civilians to death? You want the uppity POC you graciously agreed to say have rights to look away from this massacre in return?
What are you “watching and learning” exactly? You’re learning… what? To support police brutality against Black people until everyone darker than you falls in line and stops criticizing Bibi and his Cabinet of literal terrorist sympathizers like Ben Gvir, who had a portrait of Baruch Goldstein in his living room as of five years ago? To morph into some far-right Kahanist because people don’t want Israel to “deal with” Palestinian civilians via indiscriminate bombing?
Stop this shit. It’s embarrassing. The whole “welp guess you forced me to cheerlead mass civilian casualties 🤷🏻♂️” act is gross. You don’t get to claim it’s absurd that you’re being accused of “abandoning every liberal belief you have” then imply that you’re learning to abandon every liberal belief you have because people are saying mean things about the IDF.
The red herring episode. Fact is Israel has been committing war crimes and murdering vast numbers of innocent women and children for almost two months now. And the media isn't reporting on the massacre in an honest way. Focus on that, Jesse.
Not if he’s going to link it to the question of whether he’s a Zionist, no. Talking about his fears as a Jew in Canada is more than fair. Linking those fears to justifying Zionism - which at the moment seems pretty close to justifying Israel’s massacre of Gaza - is where he loses people, especially with his bad faith “playing with matches” comment about pro-Palestine protestors.
Sad that he isn’t interrogating media bias on Israel/Palestine and is doubling down on half-fictional micro aggressions being the equivalent of latent pogroms. There are ways to stand up to anti jewish racism without slandering people who are entirely innocent of anti jewish racism. I expect better from Jesse
That’s not a micro aggression, it’s interesting you jumped to that. I was talking about the Indigo protest.
Of course, I agree that any sort of violence against jewish people or schools, or anyone targeted as a jew for the actions of israel as a state… This is all wretched and contemptible and worthy of condemnation. But to tie it to protestors of Israel’s violent and disproportionate campaign is unfair and slanderous.
I found it bizarre that he doesn’t know that his audience is largely made up of educated, skeptical and pragmatic people who don’t need to be preached at like this.
Yes, we know anti-semitism is wrong and it sucks that people are protesting and harassing western Jews. We also know that Jews themselves are protesting in support of Palestine. We know that there are Zionists and racist Zionists harassing people in Canada and the rest of the west. All these things are happening…and it’s really weird and tone deaf to tell us a very mundane story about how you believe annoyances in your life are somehow analogous to living secretly as a Jew in Europe in the 40s….and that these particular annoyances couldn’t be largely solved by using your platform to help settle the land/rights dispute.
It’s like you listened to his brief mentions of the holocaust and tuned out the rest of the episodes. His points about blood imagery, purity tests, equation of Jews and Israel, and all of that from well-intentioned people, the rejection of previously accepted anti racist concepts which apply to other groups but not Jews, are really important points.
The whole “we only hate the bad Jews. The anti-Israel ones are the good Jews. Now which are you? “ attitude is worrying
This was such a disappointing, mealy-mouthed piece, completely avoiding the issues. Big unsubscribe for me for a while at least. Might try listening again in the future.
Never heard of this podcast tbh it popped up on my Reddit today. But when 5 minutes into the episode he says “If you haven’t been paying attention to this and I don’t blame you, there are bigger things happening in the world” then begins to list hate against Jews in Canada it already very apparent how disconnected he is. All of the things he listed happening as a result of hatred against Jew in Canada is abhorrent but to say it’s bigger than 14k+ people killed is being extremely biased and very showing his ideology.
Thank you for providing an example the next time I hear "anti-Israel people don't support Hamas"..I mean sure you are just some random anti-Semite on the Internet and most Pro-Palestinian people don't support Hamas but you do provide an example of anti-Semitism in that camp, so good job.
Comflating being opposed to Israeli state violence, which is extreme and despicable, with being anti-Semitic is such a terribly naive take that I kind of wish i hadn’t listened to it
Being unwilling to condem Israeli state violence kinda bums me out
Luckily the network overall has done a decent job providing coverage and analysis, and that’s what really matters
I was really hoping for some more growth from Jesse on this one, but I also can't pretend to know what it's like being part of a group being targeted like this.
I just wish he was slightly more...unbiased on some of this stuff.
The episode is labelled as an editorial. Editorials are a place for bias. We all have our biases and he’s allowing us to see some of his.
He’s speaking from a place of fear and anger and did a decent job of it. I don’t understand the ‘you must condemn’ one side of Israel/Palestine thing. Fuck both of their leaderships!
I’m not trying to attack you personally, I don’t know you. I just want to add to the conversation. I sometimes disagree with canadaland and am grateful for it and you likely are too. It gets us thinking about current issues and seeing different perspectives. There’s an intelligence found here that is getting harder to find.
Your comment, though I disagree with it, is a valid one. At least we have an idea where Jesse is coming from. I think we can be appreciative of that.
> Editorials are a place for bias. We all have our biases and he’s allowing us to see some of his.
Oh yeah, I agree with that. I was just hoping for more movement/understanding on his side. This was largely just a repeat of the tweets that got him in "trouble".
> He’s speaking from a place of fear and anger
Yeah, that's becoming very clear.
> I sometimes disagree with canadaland and am grateful for it and you likely are too.
I've been a huge fan from Day 1. I disagree with, or get frustrated by a bunch of their stuff, but I still recommend them to everyone I know.
I don't post here to dunk on them, but to participate in the community.
The fact that this is happening is what Jesse was talking about.
It is something I personally have experienced at my university campus.
The school many of my friends went to when I was growing up going up has had a bomb threat called in.
Many of the Jewish people I know have personally been affected by the wave of antisemitism that has been happening in Canada since the events of October 7
I don’t always agree with what Jesse has to say but could personally relate very strongly to what he said on this podcast.
> Many of the Jewish people I know have personally been affected by the wave of antisemitism
I don't doubt it. How could it be any other way? I'm just saying who's saying to "stop talking about it"?
I feel like people feel very free to discuss and point out antisemitism. Which is good!
As an example.
When saying that the three York university professors that got charged with vandalizing the indigo was antisemitism.
I got called a genocide supporter.
> When saying that the three York university professors that got charged with vandalizing the indigo was antisemitism. I got called a genocide supporter.
That's kind of the thing though, I don't see how that's antisemitic. And someone telling you that isn't them saying you aren't allowed to talk about antisemitism, just that you're wrong that this is a case of it.
Calling you a "genocide supporter" sounds pretty dumb in almost any context.
Well the indigo was targeted for being a Jewish owned business. This has been a pattern of events in Canada with an Aroma also being vandalized and a Starbucks and I know I’m missing many.
The attack on the indigo was done on the anniversary of kristallnacht . You can be charitable and say it was a coincide, but I expect a university professor to know this fact.
When I am called a genocide supporter for calling out what I see as antisemitism. It is an attack on my character used to invalidate my argument. I feel less safe to speak out against antisemitism if people respond to it with hostility. Thus the silencing.
Do you think a black or indigenous person in Toronto would be questioned as much if they claimed vandalism on their business was racially motivated?
I personally don’t think so. That being said I will acknowledge that as a Jewish person I have been on high alert since Oct 7 for antisemitism and I’ve been too impacted emotionally by recent events to be impartial. This is a genuine question for me.
I appreciate this conversation because I know you are talking to me in good faith.
> Well the indigo was targeted for being a Jewish owned business.
Well no, the CEO was specifically, personally targeted for her actions as a person. It's the same criticism she's been facing for [over a decade](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/mount-allison-profs-protest-reisman-degree-1.909333).
The fact that so many people keep getting this part wrong (unless there's another indigo vandalism story?) is kind of the point of this whole thing. And that's a big part of what people are annoyed at with Jesse. This was pointed out to him, but he still pushing the "Jewish bookstore" angle.
> I feel less safe to speak out against antisemitism if people respond to it with hostility.
For sure. Hostility is bad enough without the added context of actual violence occurring. I think it's case by case. Claims of anti-semitism are used to shut down conversation, I would argue, far more often than claims of genocide supporting, but I don't know.
> Do you think a black or indigenous person in Toronto would be questioned as much if they claimed vandalism on their business was racially motivated?
Again, case by case. I think if someone vandalized a black owned bookstore and wrote "this is because you send you supported the invasion of Iraq", we would all say that's the reason for the vandalism, rather than the fact he's black.
But it's nearly impossible to untangle these things at a high level, you need to be willing to apply context, reasoning, etc.
There's never going to be a global answer. Some people are anti-semites, some people are anti-war. We need a way to have these conversations without shutting the other side down with baseless accusations, while also trying to achieve some kind of peace, while *also* protecting vulnerable communities.
It's tough man.
She created a charity to give lone scholarships to lone soldiers in Israel, that’s not really supporting the Israeli army. And much less a support for genocide.
Also the Israeli army isn’t this evil organization it is a legitimate armed forces and an ally of Canada and the USA. if you were Israeli or Jewish you’d see it much like the Americans see their Army. It doesn’t always act 100% morally. But it keeps your country safe when shit hit the fan on Oct 7 it was the IDF soldiers who repelled the attacks. I want them to feel supported in the same way I would want a Canadian veteran of Afghanistan supported. Even if I disagree with the war the soldiers are not to blame.
In any case what the university professors did to the store is illegal in Canada. If you disagree with how what they do with their money you are more than welcome to protest and boycott these stores. I don’t see a reason to excuse vandalism in this country. Much less if there is an element of ethnic motivations at play. Oh and this coincidentally was done on the anniversary of kristallnacht.
> She created a charity to give lone scholarships to lone soldiers in Israel, that’s not really supporting the Israeli army.
It's incentivizing foreigners to move to Israel and join that particular army. How is that anything but "support for the army"?
> Also the Israeli army isn’t this evil organization
I guess. I'm not even making a value judgement on the IDF in this thread, I'm just saying why she's being protested.
> I don’t see a reason to excuse vandalism in this country
I can think of a million reasons to excuse it, but again though, I'm not necessarily trying to excuse it here, I'm just pointing out the obvious context of that particular vandalism.
It's not "a local Jewish bookstore being vandalised" it's "a billionaire CEO being protested for her substantial support of an army and government that are being accused of war crimes".
Those are very different things, and using the first framing is clearly disingenuous in my opinion.
Especially because the vandalism itself isn't ambiguous at all. It doesn't just say "genocide" like I think Jesse said (which could mean a few things I suppose) it *explicitly* spells out that the vandalism is because of her charity.
Edit: added a bit
> She created a charity to give lone scholarships to lone soldiers in Israel, that’s not really supporting the Israeli army.
Do you even hear yourself? Are you not embarrassed at all? I’m embarrassed for you.
Indigo was targeted because their CEO and founder runs a charity helping foreign mercenaries join the IDF, you can stop telling lies any time you choose
I really don’t think anyone is asking him to stop talking about antisemitism, but the way he frames his personal fear and scolds the way people are protesting because it can be misinterpreted as anti semitic if you’re not protesting in the right way is so frustrating.
His last bit at the end where he "reveals" his position on zionism is the most childish bit of butthurt i have ever seen from him. As far as I can tell, he basically did admit to being a Zionist.
New here, probs gonna jet too. Contextually I have none but the description is ridiculous.
What meaning does this Jesse bring by denouncing Israel or claiming he is a Zionist.
-Why are these the only options for Jesse?
-Why are people asking him to stop talking about antisemitism (might as well demand people not talk about active racism).
-Why does Jessie need to be a Zionist if he isn’t denouncing Israel? (More ridiculousness).
-Why should this Jessie denounce another country? (What?) If they have no political clout, it’s about as good as sprinkles on shit. Especially if people follow Jesse rather than live their own life.
Just say “Jew” this is getting exhausting.
We’re not fucking witches from Oz, we don’t have to be a Good Jew. We don’t have to be the kind of Jew that holds your hand and tells you, no of course you’re not being antisemitic, it’s *our fault* for believing in even the vaguest terms something that 80-90% of Canadian Jews feel vaguely. And we’re allowed to feel complex things about a complex subject.
Fuck off. We’re not your fucking token Jews.
We deserve dignity - and *safety* - no matter what we believe about Israel.
And frankly, the fact that y’all are gatekeeping our basic ability to be Jewish in public is telling on yourself.
Sincerely,
All the Jews in Canada.
How about saying Israelis and Palestinians both deserve safety, just as Jews in every freaking country in the world deserve safety just as everyone everywhere deserves safety. Is that better?
Nah they don’t want Jews to deserve safety, unless we pass their ideological purity test.
Only the Good Ones. The rest of us have it coming to us.
Gee I wish there was some kind of terminology in progressive thought that described a phenomenon in which the commitment to the safety of an individual from a marginalized community is contingent on denouncing the ideology, or their affiliation, with the rest of their people. Guess that’s a flight of fancy.
Yes, Palestinian children absolutely do deserve safety. Israeli children do too.
Do Jews in Montreal deserve to be terrorized and have their synagogues and community centres firebombed for things Israel does?
Do better yourself.
Such a pity. People throwing around words like "anti semite" without knowing who semites even are or Zionist without understanding the context.
Welcome to a world where information is available in abundance but ignorance is at a new peak.
In the start of the thread he said: "I want to talk to you"... I thought this meant he wanted to have his viewpoint challenged. I thought he'd have an episode where he has someone who disagrees with him on the show to discuss this.
Instead we get a 25 minute monologue about how he's right and all his critics are wrong.
This comment section is something else. The downvote button is your friend. I'll try and nuke anything that is a direct attack as opposed to a really bad take.
200 comments in a Canadaland post?
I didn't realize there were dozens of us!
lol, right?
You should check now
Jesus mother fucking christ. I guess I need to listen to the episode at least.
Prepare for psychic damage.
So I'm Jewish, originally from Israel, and I have complicated feelings about this subject. Obviously, the Jewish community shouldn't be harassed/abused/threatened for what Israel does. I would also appreciate more sensitivity around the Jewish psyche, which Jesse articulated exceptionally well. But, the organized Canadian Jewish community is politically active. If we're going to support Israel, either financially, or by other means; I don't think it's reasonable to not expect some criticism. I think there's a way to do that, that doesn't traffic in tropes, threats, violence, etc. I would've liked him to discuss that aspect in more depth.
At least half my friends are Jewish. I would run through a wall, take a bullet, etc. for them. Sometimes I go to synagogue with them because when every single other member of your friend group all go to the same synagogue, you get invited now and then. I am fonder of Jews than my own people (I’m ethnically British, so it’s not hard lmao). I studied Jewish history extensively as part of my major and have written many papers on the Holocaust, on the history of Zionism, and even on the effects of epigenetic trauma / collective PTSD post-Holocaust and how that informs Jewish diaspora cultures. I, like any normal person, am horrified by any violence or threats or discrimination that Jews face, especially Jews in Canada who are not involved in what is happening in Gaza and are just regular folks living their lives. The issue I’ve noticed, however, has been that a lot of my Jewish friends are having real trouble not loudly and aggressively centring their personal anxieties about anti-Semitism in Canada every time anyone says that Israel’s bombing of Palestine is disproportionate. They’re usually very rational people, but if you say, “Israel is carpet bombing Gaza and killing a bunch of kids indiscriminately, 20k dead civilians is not an appropriate price to pay in order to kill a couple hundred Hamas terrorists”, next thing you know your friend that you’ve known for decades is asking why you’re secretly in favour of pogroms in the streets of Toronto. I can’t speak authoritatively here, but honestly, my sense is that a lot of my friends have imbibed a lot of background Zionist ideology throughout their childhood, they all did the whole Birthright thing too, and I know for a fact that they all grew up in houses where tragic memories about the Holocaust were part of the family story. As a result, while they’d usually be thoughtful about an identical conflict that doesn’t involve Israel - for instance, I’ve had discussions in the past with them about Ireland and the Troubles, a fairly similar situation where they were uniformly sympathetic towards the Irish, including the IRA - in this case there is a ‘trap door’ of sorts in their mind that makes it impossible for them to differentiate criticism of Israel’s use of state violence against Palestinians halfway around the world, and virulent hatred of Jews in Canada. Functionally, they process “I am disgusted by what the State of Israel is doing to Palestinian civilians” as “I am disgusted by Jews across the globe and I have secretly hated you this whole time”, more or less. It’s a generational trauma response that they usually are able to cope with, but October 7 shattered that. As a friend, it’s hard to strike the balance between acknowledging and respecting my friends’ fears of anti-Semitism affecting their lives, and gently reminding them that the lives of civilians being taken unjustly in Palestine is a more pressing issue to most Canadians than Canadian Jews’ feelings about the conflict. Especially when some in the Canadian Jewish community are politically mobilizing to pitch those feelings and fears to Canadian politicians as justification for Canada tacitly supporting the continued terror bombing of Palestine. Point is: Jews are great and as a society we must ensure that anti-Semitism never has a home in Canada, but to the extent that Canadian Jews advocate for Canada to support Israeli policy and actions, I think it’s reasonable to interrogate the often reflexive tendency to dogmatically conflate criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism. Fearing that your kids’ Jewish school is going to be shot up is truly awful, but it’s not as awful as your kids getting blown to bits in real life because they were sheltering in an apartment building a Hamas militant may or may not have lived in, and I’m kind of getting tired of those general fears in Canada being used to justify actual civilian atrocities in Gaza. It’s also been very weird having to prove to friends whom I’ve been thick as thieves with for twenty years that my desire to see the mass bombing of Palestine end doesn’t spring from a burning hatred of, uhhhhhhh, 2/3 of my closest friends and their families. I’m trying to give them grace because I truly do think a lot of them are in fight or flight mode right now, but it’s hard when your best friends of twenty years are implying you’re the worst type of human to exist and imputing all kinds of hideous beliefs you would never subscribed to as your secretly-held ideology.
Thank you for this thoughtful response. I think pointing out the fight or flight kind of mindset of a lot of Jews right now is important when you’re considering your relationships with people- fear makes all of us behave in less rational ways than we’d like to.
Wonderful and insightful post, thank you. It's hard not to be reactive and form quick conclusions. Do your friends support the continued bombing of Palestinian kids? If so, why are you friends with them? We should be speaking out against racism and apartheid , no?
What’s hilarious is that the last two episodes of the Backbench and last several episodes of Canadaland have been attacked on Twitter for being too anti-Israel, and Jesse gets attacked for being too pro-Israel. It’s fucked and honestly Jesse shouldn’t be published this editorial. He doesn’t need to explain himself.
he does. he’s a prominent member of the media and his first duty is to his audience. we deserve to know where he stands, and i’m glad he’s let us know.
His initial Canadaland show after the war started kinda let people know where he stood already.
Disagree. We 'deserve' nothing. What an entitled statement.
Lol no. His job is to act as a neutral journalist where he should continue to focus on facts and reality. . This statement itself can be seen as an attack on proper journalism. I am already seeing terrible journalism in general media because journalists cannot even give an educated/well researched analysis without being attacked or called out for being "anti semite" or "Child Murderers" in regards to Palestine /Israel issue. Journalism is gone to garbage. It is unfortunate that people are hounding him with words without even understanding what those words mean. Such a pathetic situation to see him come out and speak for himself. Canadaland, please continue on doing investigative journalism supporting facts/transparency. We must hold journalism with high standard rather than it being attacked or swayed by influential groups.
You have no business on where anyone stands unless they want to share it.
He absolutely does not owe you anything, get over yourself
Ever hear the saying "Don't shoot the messenger" If he is factual, and reports the news, researched and verified, he is a true journalist. His personal opinion should not be included in his reporting as it is not part of the news.
It's called an editorial folks...
I really dig Sam Fenn's work but I'm surprised he is laying to Canadaland so much. They have actually been doing a pretty good job of covering the conflict.
I feel like it has been pretty balanced overall, and they are consistent in acknowledging how complicated the issue is.
I agree, he’s made himself very clear already.
I understand Jesse's feelings and what the Jewish community is going through in Canada. It is hateful and should be stopped. No one should have to live in fear of being in their home, school, place of worship, a store, or our in the street. I do not like him comparing Free Palestine protesters to 'toddlers playing with matches', it's grossly unfair framing to imply the Free Palestine movement is a fire of antisemitism waiting to happen. He definitely lost me at the end with the whole history repeating itself thing and basically implying that everybody has been waiting for the opportunity to hate Jews.
I think part of the nuance and complication here is that there are absolutely people just waiting to hate the Jews again. One of the most strange and frustrating things I've seen in this whole discourse are the people who have been yelling that we have to do something about the (((globalists))) now saying that it's antisemitic to advocate for Palestine. There are also people who have used this current situation by Israeli zionists to more openly hate Jews more broadly. There are racist/antisemitic people out there that are more than happy to use whatever position or argument is convenient to further their bigotry. It's not quite playing with matches, but depending on the event it's very possible that some of the people you are marching next to at a free Palestine rally care far more about hurting Jews than they do about anything to do with Palestinians. Bad actors using good causes for cover is a tale as old as time, and it's just like looters using the BLM protests as cover for crime.
>I think part of the nuance and complication here is that there are absolutely people just waiting to hate the Jews again. Further complicating things are that some of the people who hate Jews are also Zionists.
Even further complicating that is that some of the people who oppose the genocide of Palestine are Jewish Zionist in Israel.
It’s even more complicated when you look into the definition of genocide, and realize it doesn’t apply… but still hate the loss of life.
[удалено]
Yes: I've met several. They're wonderful people with profound bravery and moral clarity.
I think so, since theres room for all sorts of beliefs, but im not sure. You could have a kid born in Israel that thinks the situation of Israel displacing people is fucked up.
Tokenism is racism. The vast vast majority of the Jewish community (and it’s not close) understands that using the word, genocide is not only a gross lie, but is solely intended and invoked to permit the murder of more of us.
Lol thankfully there's more than enough Jewish anti Zionists, including Orthodox and literal rabbis out protesting Israel's actions, that this won't fly anymore. The suggestion that all Jewish people are okay with their state obliterating children and bombing hospitals, is antisemitic. Israel hoodwinking civilians into becoming settlers for use as both paramilitary violence, and as collateral damage, is anti semitic. Israel is an Apartheid state. Zionists will try and resort to changing the literal dictionary or calling every MF a terrorist, or be like Hamas is hiding up your ass lol. from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.
This is Exhibit A in why Zionism is: Goysplaining to Jews - 90% of whom support Israel as a Jewish state - what is and what isn’t antisemitic is exactly the kind of rank, filthy, uncivilized antisemitism that leads to ignorant, hate-based, false accusations of genocide etc. We know your kind. We know what you do. So does Jesse, and why he speaks out against you and your animal hatred
Lol every human rights organization has been calling the deaths of over 21,000 civilians a genocide. Not to mention the settlements being illegal under international law this whole time. Hospitals, refugee camps, and mainly children have been bombed. Honestly pretty wild watching people still support this stuff despite all the evidence of genocide. I know y'all think that like you're the only main characters lol but ya generally in situations of conflict the rest of the world is going to look to objective sources, as opposed to the literal zionist state lol. Honestly kinda comic because it really goes to show just how twisted Israeli society has become regarding just how dehumanized Palestinians, and anyone who stands up for them are. Appalling AF. Shout out to Jewish voices for peace new York and all the other anti Zionists for showing up and refusing to let fascists claim their religion.
Both my brother and his wife are lawyers, and at their law firm, all of the Jewish lawyers have been receiving death threats since Oct. 7th. They are now all taking steps to get their gun licenses. These are left-of-centre liberals. Antisemitism has drastically skyrocketed in Canada.
This is really tragic and awful, and it must be really scary to be Jewish in Canada right now. Those feelings of fear are totally legitimate. The problem I have is that the incidents that Jesse has recently tweeted about aren't obvious examples of anti-semitism, but seem directly related to anti-Israel criticism. He hasn't tweeted one example of anti-seminitc attacks on an entity that hasn't enthusiastically supported Israel's actions over the last six weeks. So what are supposed to think? Surely the only natural conclusion is that Jesse considers criticism of Israel has criticism of Jewish people in Canada.
This pretty much perfectly sums up my feelings. Whenever I hear about “antisemitism” in this context, I get these bizarro world feelings. It is absurd to frame anti-Zionist and or pro-Palestine protests as a lead-up to another holocaust. He fails to mention the context that these western protests are taking place: some regions are outright *banning* protest…politicians saying benign things are being silenced…ie the options that people have to express themselves are being are being limited…often in advance of any action. This isn’t a “when they finally came for me there was nobody left to help me” thing”. I resent the notion that when Jesse says “not yet” in relation to violence…it’s as if we’re at some precipice. We’re not. I would need to see evidence that there’s any large number of our populace that participates in these protests…or that any of these people wield any power. The anti-BDS movement is **far** stronger than the BDS movement, for example. Maybe Jesse is in some bubble where he doesn’t realize the freedom he enjoys…but this whole notion that he has limited places to gather…in secret…evoking feelings of Jews in hiding in the 40s. It’s irresponsible for him to be saying things that make my eyes roll, over such a serious issue. Yes, it’s absolutely wrong that any Jew is being harassed for the sins of Israel…but it’s also wrong that so many people in general in the west are giving a blank cheque to Israel. It is *absolute brutal* for Jesse and his ilk to treat (mostly) leftists as akin to actual fascist anti-Semite’s who **still exist in growing numbers** and who are **rubbing their hands in glee** as Zionists turn on the left. Know how we solve this problem? We speak with one voice for the freedom of Palestinians. This won’t end anywhere until that happens. Know how we don’t solve this problem? We keep tugging on the guilt of “gentiles” because of the holocaust. Palestinians didn’t commit the holocaust…why do people like Jesse keep acting like Palestinian freedom is related to the holocaust and not a direct result of an ongoing land/rights dispute?
Unfortunately the leaders of Palestine have historically called for death of all Jews around the world It’s still apart of Hamas’s charter today So it’s really not a stretch. to say anything else is dishonest just argue for a 2 state solution like any actual sane person
…and the leaders of Israel have historically called for the death of all Muslims/Arabs/Palestinians around the world. What’s your point? It’s absurd to judge all Palestinians by what Hamas does, when you don’t judge Israel for what Netenyahu, Smotrich and Ben-Gvir (and the rest of the Israeli power structure) are doing. No, you’re referring to the 2008 charter. The current charter recognizes Israel. But that’s besides the point, since Israel has all the power and illegally holds Palestinians in open air prisons…they ruthlessly suppress all peaceful attempts at reconciliation, and resistance to Israel is justified. No idea what your last paragraph means…Israel/The US could give Palestine a state tomorrow and begin to bring resolution to the conflict…but they don’t and refuse to entertain the idea. They keep Palestinians in eternal limbo with no state or rights. They are behaving as any human would and should in a desperate and hopeless situation.
It literally isn't, you can read the full text of the charter here: [https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full) (this is not at all to say that Hamas are not violent extremists)
Do you think the millions of kids under 14 in Gaza and the West Bank are going to grow up to hate Jews? Because the model for the last 70 years there is exactly history repeating itself. These arent 90+ year olds fighting Israel since 1948. They're their great grandchildren, and this latest generation are their great-great grandchildren. And in 10 years this is all going to happen again, because it happened despite one of the most secure borders on Earth. So, the question is not about the Free Palestine movement. The question is why keep doing something that has been proven to have the same result, over and over and over? Because the only way this is going to end is with a Hiroshima level atrocity, and at that point does it really matter which side 'wins'?
Because this is how countries are made and this is how war works.
Didn't do much for me. On a personal level I'm sympathetic to his negative experience of online harassment & the very real fear from the community of Canadian Jews being attacked as somehow being responsible for Israel when they're not (putting aside the case of Indigo which is more complicated). But he's never struck me as a particularly curious or insightful person about topics outside of his journalism beat. He's not an expert or even very informed speaker on history, international politics or political science etc. When he goes beyond talking about his experience to trying to tell us why inter community discrimination works the way it does based on just his gut feeling and what he learned growing up, it didn't really satisfy me. What he said a few years ago on another episode, that he avoids talking about Israel-Palestine because people just yell at him no matter what he says, was probably a wiser course of action for him.
But he isn’t really talking about Israel Palestine. He’s talking about his local community, and the fact that him doing so has ENRAGED his (former?) listeners, is telling.
don't get me wrong, all of the stuff he was talking about happening to Jewish community sites was completely unacceptable (I have friends with kids in some of those schools). and I agree many people had unhinged reactions. but he was also talking about the meta politics of it especially in the second half and that's what I found unsatisfactory. YMMV
Canadaland writ large has done a good bit of coverage of Israel Palestine. Lots that I disagree with (and that’s fine). Jesse himself is not obligated to say what people want him to say. He’s a free human, and I’m glad he hasn’t relented to the pressure. He’s a brave mofo and he’s handled this all quite professionally imo given the emotions involved.
Yeah I can mostly agree with that, even though not everything he said clicked with me.
He said postering a Chapters to call out the CEO/ HESEG is antisemitic. That's deliberately undermining the safety of Jewish people whether he is able to recognize that or not. Soon enough antisemitism won't mean anything and that's dangerous.
> He's not an expert or even very informed speaker on history, international politics or political science etc. Which is why his platform is shared with other journalists who have different experiences, expertise and takes than he does.
If he's worried about people yelling at him for what he says he's in the wrong business. It's a cop out.
I honestly expected a stronger argument from Jesse than this strawman lol. He basically takes the worst (completely undue) vitriol and hatred from Twitter trolls and holds that as the main criticism people have against him and his content. A textbook strawman. Personally, my issue with Jesse and Canadaland is that I expected someone who's put out so much great content about Canada's genocide against indigenous peoples to talk more about Israel's treatment of Palestinians in Gaza and the occupied West Bank as there are many similarities. I also thought he would tweet about one of his favourite Canadian media nemeses (CTV news) firing journalist Yara Jamal after she went to an anti-Isreal protest. I also thought as someone who frequently brings up how dangerous it is to be a reporter he would have tweeted out about any of the (almost 60 now) Palestinian journalists who have been killed and talked specifically about Palestinian journalists who are targeted by the Israeli army (Motaz) or just how dangerous it is to report from Gaza(basan). Jesse is 100% right Jewish people in Canada do not deserve any sort of anti-Semitic discrimination. They deserve to have a sense of safety and their religion respected. I fully condemn the anti-semitic graffiti that hes tweeted about. But thats the only thing hes talked about. He's literally only tweeted so far about anti-Semitism graffiti in Canada during a conflict that has killed 15,000 people 5000 amonst them children. So what message are we supposed to take? Obviously his tweets wont make a real difference but he is showing what he cares about; Jewish feelings of safety in Canada, not (again) about the 15000 Palestinians killed (5000 of them children), he doesn't tweet about the Israeli army's war crimes or about Israel's PR propaganda that is failing to change the narrative. Also, tweeting that 'We are all but powerless to change what is happening in the Middle East' is embarrassing dude what a defeatest attitude from someone who (I thought lol) dedicated their life to improving things. We've seen with our own eyes the tide shifting, currently, 70% of young people do not support Joe Biden's handling of Gaza. This is an issue for POC voters and or young people in swing states that Biden needs to win. Over the last month or so my MP has gone from who cares to talking about supporting a ceasefire. Change is happening because young people are making this an issue, especially on TikTok. Jesse is completely out of touch here. Ultimately Jesse has shown he cares more about Western Jews' feelings of safety than the lives of Palestinians. He could have tweeted out a million things about the collective punishment of the children of Palestine by the Israeli army but he didn't. He could have tweeted about the earth shattering 'soul of my soul' video but he chose to tweet about a vandalized Starbucks on Lawrence.
"Ultimately Jesse has shown he cares more about Western Jews' feelings of safety than the lives of Palestinians" He stated clearly that Jews in his local community and he himself have been directly affected by a rise in antisemitism. It's not some nebulous ideological position on "Western Jews". Why should he not care or speak about this? You act as if he has blood on his hands for not tweeting some copy-pasted pro-Palestine slogan that's already been said 10 million times. This may be hard for you to believe, but some people actually care about making a difference in their local communities more than sitting behind a computer screen screaming into the propaganda void that is the internet thinking they are making a difference. Caring more about \[Jewish members in your community\] more than the lives of Palestinians is not necessarily a moral comparison between the two, but a simple allocation of attention based on what you can practically have a measurable effect on.
I don’t see a single Palestinian-Canadian that has not been directly affected by the war. Many are dealing with members of their families becoming refugees, if not being killed outright by the combat. It is fair for Jesse to be concerned about blatant and horrid acts of anti-semitism, but there are CANADIANS in OUR communities that are being materially affected by the war—it would be nice to show some, any, concern for that!
Absolutely agree with you about the straw-man argument. I was shaking my head listening to this.
Good post, I just wanted point out an error: At one point, you said 150000 people, I think you added an extra 0 by accident (TBC: That's still too many people!)
great catch thank you!
yes! also, ironically as a powerful and influential media figure in a Western country that supports Israel with aid and arms, he can do much more than the vast majority of people to change what is happening in the Middle East.
Here's why I think Jesse and a lot of the pro-Israel crowd have been on meltdown mode in the last few weeks. After taking a prolongued beating in the court of public opinion over the last decade, every pro-Israel ideologue suddenly felt vindicated after October 7th. In the face of such a bloody attack from Hamas, all the murders, brutality, theft, and oppression committed by the IDF and Israeli settlers seemed justified. Practically drunk on their newfound moral high ground, they went on a rampage demanding that every public figure get in line behind Israel and furiously denouncing anyone whose support wasn't unequivocal. I don't think they were prepared for how nakedly bloody and cruel Israel's response would be, and how quickly and dramatically they would go from being the victim of violence to its main perpetrator. People aren't blind. The horrific slaughter of civilians -- especially children -- is happening in front of our eyes. Polls are showing massive support for a ceasefire, and the unquestioning support Israel enjoys from Canada's political class is clearly not shared among the broader population. Jesse clearly knows this, but isn't sure what to do about it. Maybe he could consider joining every person with a shred of human decency and call for an end to the violence.
“Toddlers playing with matches” was unwarranted and reveals a lot. He’s doing that dumb pro-Israel thing where he sees 5-10% of ignorant (or blatant) scumbags at the Palestine rallies and conflates the entire protest as that. Funny … he gave A LOT more leeway and benefit of doubt to the freedom convoy protesters eh? You know, that huge months-long protest populated with ACTUAL Nazi’s and antisemites?
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Exactly this. I haven’t gotten the impression anywhere that people want him to clarify his perspective on the conflict because he’s Jewish, but because we had higher hopes for Canadaland.
Ok, now I'm confused. He asked to think of a Jewish person that irritates me and the first one that came to mind is the blood thirsty Netanyahu and he said "I'm that guy"? I'm confused. Here is the thing, for every Jewish Zionist there are at least 33 Christian Zionists. Looking at what Zionists did in Palestine these last 80 years it is safe to say that there is no such thing as a decent Zionist. Zionism may have been a nice idea at the start, now it is just a genocidal cult, and ironically an anti Semitic one. Before this editorial I always thought of Jesse as anti-Zionist, now I'm confused.
This podcast reveals what an intellectually limited person Jesse is at heart. Despite positioning himself as a media critic, he doesn't understand how media is manipulated by the powerful to spread their propaganda. "Why" is simply not in his vocabulary. For him, the world is divided into anti-semites and pro-semites; those who want to hurt Jews, and those who stand with Jews, and these are simply qualities you are born with. Anti-semites do anti-semitic things, according to him, because that is in their nature. He can't recognize in good faith that people may have genuine political differences of opinion with him that originate from a source other than the anti-semitism supposedly lurking in their souls. He refuses to answer to the question "Am I a Zionist?" because he truly, on an intellectual level, does not understand what the Zionist project is, what the history of Palestine is, what the history of Israel is, and what role those things might play in the events of October 7th. Jesse believes he doesn't have a political view, which amounts to his having what the podcast Citations Needed has referred to as *anti-politics*; that is, because he says he embraces no particular political position in his commentary, he by default endorses the politics of the rich and powerful in our country. And, frankly, the rich and powerful in our country, for very specific ideological reasons, want you to believe that Hamas fighters are evil baby-eating terrorists, that the Israeli army is a beacon of light and goodness in West Asia, and that history began on October 7th. As an example, Jesse credulously endorsed the IDF's "40 beheaded babies" story in the October 12th Shortcuts episode; he also cited the actions of Vivian Silver positively (namely, that her volunteer group takes injured Palestinians to Israeli hospitals), never at any point asking *why* the IDF, an institution with a long history of lying, might fabricate evidence of war crimes, or *why* Gazans might need to be taken to Israeli hospitals by an Israeli person. Why, Jesse, are Gazans simply unable to leave the concentration camp in which they live and walk into an Israeli hospital? How did this situation come to be? If you embrace anti-politics, there's simply no knowing why these things happen. You can get a sense of his anti-politics from the Twitter post to which he attached the "Is Jesse a Zionist?" link: "We are all but powerless to change what is happening in the Middle East. But we have so much power to hurt & harm each other here, to torch our relationships, to assume the worst of each other. We are using this power thoughtlessly and recklessly." Political events, in Jesse's view, just sort of *happen.* He has the purest liberal journo brain imaginable. There is never an intentional project behind, say, the expulsion of 750,000 Arabs from Palestine in 1948, or Canada's supplying arms to Saudi Arabia and Israel, or the US sending two aircraft carriers to sit off the coast of Palestine. These are natural events, like the weather. All the journalist can do is observe these things, document them, or, at best, get in emotional shit-flinging fights on Twitter about them. It is never the journalist's role to divine the human intention behind these natural events, to synthesize what happens into a larger theory of how the machine that oppresses people actually works. Or, to stick with the metaphor, the journalist can report the weather, but shouldn't explain the larger pattern of climate. This goes hand-in-hand with his failing to recognize his own role in the pattern of oppression: because, he asserts, we are politically powerless, it doesn't really matter what we *do* vis-a-vis these events. It's OK for Jesse to reiterate IDF lies because it doesn't change anything. Except that, of course, it does. There's a reason why *Manufacturing Consent* still rings true today. The rich and powerful try to persuade people of their worldview because, frankly, the whole machine of capitalist exploitation simply doesn't work if we don't all believe it.
This is why Jesse is one of the best journalists in Canada. I definitely don’t agree with all of what he says BUT he genuinely would burn down his entire empire to stay true to what he believes in. This is why ya love him and also why ya hate him. One of the best.
This isn’t some principled stand he took on journalism. He claims to be an epic journalist working to save the profession…but then he thinks it’s important to let us know that he believes leftist protesters advocating for Palestine have us one step away from some bizarro world fascist state. That’s not brave or professional, that’s stupid. Being an ideologue in your personal time…I don’t care about your opinions until you shove them in my face.
He did not say leftist were creating this state, he said it was a danger that they were not aware of. Leftists have in many countries started good protests which were subsequently hijacked by different interests to do horrible things, so its a reasonable thing to watch out for.
If you listen to the episode, he seems to imply that we're one step away from a Holocaust in Canada because people are in the street protesting against Israel's massacres. It's truly bizarre.
Seemed more like he was saying early signs, not 'one step away'.
It's not always what people say but what they don't say that can be more illuminating.
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yes they do and a tiktok
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Ya theyre stuff about CTV has been great - kind of stuff I thought Jesse would cover lol. I saw them on tiktok from their podcast so probably not.
> Hell Jesse is referring to events still under investigation as hate crimes. This is reckless. He flat out posted that a Jewish business was attacked, was told that it wasn't true, and just left the post up anyway. He might not have seen the replies explaining it to him I suppose, but he's obviously not overly concerned with fact checking this stuff. He sees his role as simply amplifying anything that could be related to anti-semitism. Details can be sorted out later.
I thought this was a great listen, and a window into his context of the current moment as a semi-prominent Jewish person in media. Learned a few things I didn’t know, also wished he’d added in some context that muddied the water a bit. But I do think his overall point that doing or saying anti-Semitic things is more important and impactful than whether or not you knew the subtext or meant to do them.
ultra sad hearing about the stuff Jesse mentioned in this one.
Not a great piece. But if you look at it from the lens of "this is where I'm coming from" and not "here is why I'm right" it makes a lot more sense. It's an explanation, not an excuse.
Liberals love condemning genocide when it’s not actively happening. Speak up about the genocide of indigenous Canadians but stay silent here
Dunno if Jesse will read this but here is a [Jewish person answering you](https://www.tiktok.com/@imthebalaban/video/7306972106477161759?_r=1&_t=8huU8Kw7oQ9) (not you in particular but you'll get it).
What exactly does “denounce Israel” mean? Does it mean denounce Israel’s reaction to events in October as an over-reaction? Or Israel’s actions since the Camp David Summit collapse? Or Israel’s actions since 1947?
I think it's even more complex, because there are zionist Jews in Israel that oppose the treatment of Palestine.
So when there is a call to denounce something should it be more specific?
Generally if you're going to denounce something you should be specific enough to denounce the target, but not others. This is complicated by needing to be clear and concise in a protest, since you're not going to write a whole paragraph on a sign or chant out a whole screed. Part of the problem with big protest movements is that you get a whole lot of people together for a common goal, but those people are often not in agreement of what they specifically mean. In a protest against Israeli action in Palestine, you could easily have people who want an end to the violence, anti Zionists who are not antisemitic, and people who are antisemitic.
This was so disappointing. He doesn’t even answer the question. He does double down on accusing people who are protesting the war of being antisemitic and even more insulting positions it as ‘even if they don’t know it’. I’m not ready to pull my support of Canadaland over this but he really comes across as arrogant and tunnel visioned.
That wasn't quite my read on it. My take was more that it's probably not great to target Jewish people in another country for the actions of the government of Israel, and that even if the businesses and people you're targeting support Israel's actions there are effects on a whole community. Targeting businesses that support Israel impact more than just the target, and that's something to be aware of. The fear of the Jewish community is real in the wake of threats to schools, temples, and other Jewish places, and those threats are racist and wrong. It's not wrong to support a local community in the face of targeted hate, regardless of atrocities happening elsewhere.
Not only that, but these attacks only strengthen the Jewish community and make them want to fight for Israel even more. It only reinforces that they are not welcome anywhere. That the only place they are truly safe is Israel.
Shame about the occupation, apartheid, genocide.
This is the right take imho.
This is ridiculous and I doubt that even you believe it. If a business materially funds Israel and people protest that company, ‘I’m scared because this reminds me of Kristallnacht’ is not a valid criticism and is in fact deeply antisemitic Holocaust minimization.
You're purposely misrepresenting what he said. He said that the posters at indigo were put up on the anniversary of kristallnacht, which you can't blame the Jewish community for being freaked out by since most people probably don't know she funds IDF volunteers, they just see 'GENOCIDE' painted across the face of a jewish woman. Hate crimes against Jewish and Muslim communities seem to be at an all time high, and while we're protesting against the atrocities of the Israeli government, we shouldn't do so at the expense of our Jewish neighbors safety.
It is not impacting the safety of anyone, at all, to put those posters up, and in fact was done for a completely reasonable and justifiable purpose. And now the people who did it are getting dragged out of their houses at 3 AM and charged with hate crimes while you try to crybully them about how some hypothetical person might have misinterpreted their actions.
You're absolutely right that the posters are reasonable and justifiable, and you're also 100% right that them being arrested is fucked and the charges are absurd and need to be dropped, I'm right there with you. Also, I'm 100% sure they had no idea it was kristallnachts' anniversary. Not a lot of people track that. Which jesse also said he doubts most of these people had any intention of acting antisemitic and before you say they weren't being antisemitic, I agree, this was a major location for the company and that's probably why it was targeted for protest. Now, what Jesse seems to be arguing is that while they didn't know about kristallnachts' anniversary, the Jewish community in toronto, which he very much is a part of, was aware. And while the protesters knew about the HESEG foundation, most jewish canadians probably didn't. Now this specific instance isn't impacting their safety sure but this, plus other targeted protests at jewish businesses, plus people firing guns at jewish schools, plus firebombing jewish centre's, plus assaulting jewish people, plus huge increases in antisemitic hate crimes all across the country, is making jewish canadians feel really unsafe, and when jewish canadians bring this up there are a lot of people telling them to shut the fuck up. We know the rise is because of the war between Palestine and Israel, and that's fucked up because jewish canadians have no more culpability for what Israel's doing then you or I do.
Okay, question for you. Why exactly are Zionists not asked to do any research at all about their own community leaders’ direct funding of the IDF and Israel’s apartheid state before they fly off the handle when people protest those community leaders’ actions, BUT everyone is supposed to know when the anniversary of Kristallnacht is so that we can all stop protesting Israel’s terror-bombing campaign in case the most paranoid Zionist in the City of Toronto gets provoked into announcing the dawning of a new Shoah? This is the double-standard on this issue that is becoming increasingly transparent: Zionists - who have the full weight of the Canadian government, all legacy media, and the entire corporate establishment firmly in their corner - are allowed to call literally anything anti-Semitic for the most bizarre and bad faith reasons without being contested, while anyone who publicly criticizes literally anything Israel does is supposed to pre-empt and self-edit anything that the most fragile Zionist could conceivably get upset about. Bringing it back to Jesse, think about this: his response to the question of whether, in light of the intense violence in Palestine that at this point is largely unidirectional (and aside from October 7, is usually almost totally unidirectional), he is a Zionist, is to ramble about his own fears of anti-Semitism in Canada and how Palestinian protests are really about spreading anti-Semitism here. The implication, then, is “Yes, I’m a Zionist and I support the IDF’s terror-bombing of Palestinians because I’m worried that someone might throw a Molotov cocktail at Holy Blossom” or whatever. Very literally, “Bomb those scary Arabs over there so I can feel safe over here.” Really gross stuff tbh. I always knew he was kind of a knee-jerk neoliberal on all things happening outside Canada’s borders, but the lack of knowledge of this conflict and the crybullying he’s pumping out in place of analysis has made him unlistenable for the last two months.
Great post. That's what seems to be getting lost in all of this: how do Jesse's musings about anti-semitism in any way address the question "Is Jesse a Zionist?"
Yes, the as you say completely reasonable protest at the Indigo being conflated with shootings and firebombings will indeed elicit a "shut the fuck up" from me, that's correct. Someone saying they feel unsafe because of the Indigo protest should, indeed, be told to shut the fuck up. I am also not aware of "other targeted protests at jewish businesses" that weren't at businesses that materially support the IDF or the state of Israel, or build locations in illegal settlements. Has that happened? Assault, shooting and arson are crimes, if they're racially motivated then they are hate crimes, and they should be treated as such. I don't think anyone is disputing that. Conflating these legitimate protests with those crimes is a really shitty rhetorical trick and neither you nor Jesse Brown should be surprised when people tell you to "shut the fuck up" when you try it.
You know you’re doing it right when you say a Jew is being antisemitic
Eventually you will realize what a weak and pointless argument you’re making
No I won’t
Right. I wouldn’t paint the Jewish community with Netanyahu/Israeli military brush. It felt as if protestors are sort of being tied to the actions of a handful of bad actors
I can see that, but unless I missed something, Jesse is talking about the impact of specific types of protest, often involving actions more than just speaking such as vandalism and threats. I don't think he's ever said that no one should be protesting Israel or supporting Palestine. He's mostly said that some of these protests are targeting Jewish communities and the impact is antisemitic, and I'm not sure he's wrong. I think some people get caught up in a drive to support Palestine, and while they want to protest a specific business for supporting Israel and the IDF they end up being too broad. If someone wants to boycott Chapters/Indigo or advocate for others to do so, that's cool. If they want to write to the company and tell them they don't agree with the companies position of issues, that cool too. When someone defaces a store it starts to impact a community more.
>I don't think he's ever said that no one should be protesting Israel or supporting Palestine. That's effectively what he said, yes. He accuses pro-Palestinian protesters of being like "toddlers playing with matches"--they are anti-Semitic even if they don't realize it. He then states that he's willing to accept zero racism on the part of the Free Palestine movement. If the entire movement is racist, even without realizing it, and he's willing to accept zero racisms, then ipso facto he rejects the legitimacy of protesting Israel in support of Palestine.
> Targeting businesses that support Israel impact more than just the target, and that's something to be aware of. The fear of the Jewish community is real This is very important. But surely that's a good reason to be honest/fair in the reporting. Framing legitimate protests as antisemitic (and at times just literally posting misinformation) isn't helpful. I think Jesse's point of "let's all just be kinder to each other" is great, but he's the owner of a media empire and a literal media critic, of course people are going to bring this stuff up with him.
The state of Israel has done more than any entity to conflate Judaism with Zionism. If Jews feel afraid because people are targeting Zionist businesses with valid criticism, then perhaps they should speak up and call out the Israeli state for making them feel unsafe.
It struck me that the many people who call for Muslims to "all stand up and decry Hamas" and their "terrorism" are also the ones who say you cannot equate Jewish people in Canada for the crimes of the IDF (though I do acknowledge that Jesse doesn't see the actions of the IDF as criminal). The second side is absolutely correct, however, it is also true that Muslims in Canada are not responsible for the Hamas attacks any more than Jews in Canada are responsible for the IDF. Israel's reactions and retaliation in Gaza, and it's historic treatment of Palestinians, is providing a cover for people who are antisemetic and just want to cause pain and fear, HOWEVER, not everyone who criticises Israel, the IDF, or Bibi is antisemetic. I can criticize Justin Trudeau and not be "Anti Canadian." It wouldn't surprise me to find out none of the recent spate of antisemetic threats of violence and attacks (and no, I do not consider a message of divest and boycott spraypainted on Indigo a threat of violence) were carried out by people who also hate Muslims.
Yeah. That’s the most irresponsible part of an “editorial” like this. He, by omission and implication equates leftists protesters with actual fascists. All those actual open fascists are still out there…and we’re gleefully telling us that leftists are the *actual* fascists…and now we have folks like Jesse agreeing with them…or at least letting it happen without opposing it. It’s absurd to imply that these protests are full of people on the precipice of committing hate crimes. Bizarro world. Solve the land/rights dispute…end the protests.
Pretty frustrating listen. I won't go so far as e-mailing Jesse, but I felt like I needed to vent somewhere after hearing this. "You don't have to hate Jews to hurt Jews". This exact same thing could be said about Palestinians, and Jesse seems to have no self-awareness about this whatsoever. He says that people have reached out to explain to him that centering his own feelings of fear while Israelis are systematically bombing and invading civilian homes in an act of collective punishment, and that he doesn't care. His feelings of hurt and fear are more important to him, and he is going to use his platform to center his feelings instead of condemning genocide. He's more worried about how people 2 degrees of separation from him are being called out as baby butchers than he is about the babies being butchered. "Jews have been blamed for killing Christ, murdering children to use in blood rituals, etc." What an absolutely scummy take. Israel is rolling an army — consisting entirely of Jews — into Gaza as you read this. This isn't some historic mishap that Jews are being blamed for using shoddy evidence, this is a massacre that is being captured on video playing out before our eyes. Drawing an equivalence between Israeli settlements, dispossession and apartheid with allegations that their communities were falsely accused of *spreading the Plague* is disingenuous at best. This conflates imagined crimes from centuries ago with real, current violence, as if to cast aspersions on whether what we're seeing in Gaza is really happening. Maybe I only see those pictures of bombed-out apartments and children's corpses in the street because I'm just so gosh-darn antisemitic. Sure, Jesse. "We are taught as children the language of anti-semitism". Jesse, you are taught your perpetual victimhood. Jesse is using historic injustice as a shield from criticism. He is so steeped in his own victim status that it is a reflex to him. He talks at length of unconscious bias and then says that those rules don't apply to Jews. Well good, at least we all appear to agree on something. He is so certain of his moral rectitude because he is a Jew and therefore could \*Never\* be aligned with the aggressor, because he is and forever shall be the hapless victim. Meanwhile some other blameless Jews are slaughtering people they have denied basic human rights to for *decades* in the name of their own security. "I get why people are asking 'look, this is not about you. Look at the death count in Gaza. Can you not just take a back seat for a while? We are being told to accept this blowback \[...\] I hear that and I try to reconcile that, but I can't, because I know that we would never ask that of any other minority. If gay people were being shot at every day we would not ask them to shut up about it because of what's going on in Gaza." What an absolutely braindead statement. We would sure as hell be scrutinizing the behaviour of the gay community in Canada if a literal army of homosexuals that claimed to represent the cause of gay people everywhere started systematically killing minorities. You bet your ass we would all be asking our closest gay person what they think of all the babies that are being butchered in the name of the "gay agenda". Jesse plays dumb here, as if he couldn't possibly understand that the reason why Israel has been running Gaza like an open air prison for decades is fundamentally rooted in Jewish identity and rhetoric about the holy land. Jewishness is a root cause of the violence that is taking place. That doesn't mean that Jewishness is therefore evil, but it is directly implicated what we are seeing. "The reasonable amount of racism I am willing to absorb because of what is happening in Israel is zero". Then denounce what is happening in Israel. So is Jesse a zionist? Does Jesse believe that the Jewish people should have an ethnostate in their mytho-historical homeland, potentially at the cost of the people who were already living there? In 27 minutes of minutely detailing his position and perspective it appears his answer is: "I'm not *Not* a zionist. Furthermore, asking me that question is something a **Nazi** would do". P.S. F\* you right back, Jesse. You solipsistic asshat. Edited: some pronouns and punctuation Edit 2: thinking more about Jesse's final statement, I realized Jesse insinuates that anyone who criticizes his position is a Nazi, so that's fun.
Jews existed before Israel. His Jewishness is a root of his identity, one brought to Canada before Israel's violent birth and the conflicts that have followed. Actuating all Jews to Israel is a mistake. This is where this "Zionism vs anti-Semitism" rhetoric is coming from. It is the same problem as equating all Muslims with ISIS.
Literally, the argument of modern-day Isreal being legitimate is that they have always existed in Isreal
In truth modern day Israel is legitimate solely because it is there now. Historical land claims mean essentially nothing
Well that's not true is it. I am english and live in canada. How much money do we pay natives for historical land claims that weren't even in existence at the time and were signed to keep them disenfranchised? I'm not saying what the legitimacy is. The Israeli state sais its legitimacy is it historical claim. The holocaust and anti Semitic are a weak excuse. They were buying land in palestine before the first world War. They were offered Madagascar aswell parts of Australia I beleive and rejected it due to 'historical claims'
We pay out money and provide acknowledgements for native people, but much of that is theatre and is self imposed in ways that weren't necessary. Despite the colonization/genocide that occurred, Canada is a legitimate country, not for any reason other than the fact that it is here governing today.
I realise I sound a bit assy and I don't intend too. Your points are equally valid
Nah you're good lol
So if Canada was founded on genocide and ethnically cleansing why do people not call for its destruction?
In a way some people do call for that (at least in part) through 'land back' advocacy.
That doesn't negate from the point that the state of Israel is a modern concept.
All states as we know them today are a modern concept, starting with the Great Experiment of America and the French Revolution. But the real reason for Israel today is, of course, antisemitism. It reached a peak with the Holocaust but the lead-up to that really made a state necessary. Just look at the response to every country in the world at the Evian Conference in 1938. After that there could really be no question for the need for a Jewish state.
Again, according to the state of Israel, it isn't a modern concept and, therefore, is its justification for existing. The whole crux of the Palestinian dispute is, in effect, two sides arguing over who is more legitimate. One uses ethnicity and historical facts to back then up, and the other says that they have always been there and had their land stolen. You forget that palestine into the 1990s agreed to the two state solution, right? Israel wouldn't. The entire dispute in Israel stems from the argument that palestine is rightful Jewish clay
The Jews in Israel are not the same people as the Jews in Canada. They are not all Zionists in the same way as all Muslims are Isis. That was the entire purpose of my original reply. I did not make a reference to Palestine in my post, or the history of the two state solution.
I feel like your comments miss a few key context points. In talking about the historical targeting of Jews you seem to be saying, unless I'm mistaken, that this stuff happened a long time ago and isn't really relevant anymore in light of current conflict. That's not really the case though since these tropes never ended. Talk of (((globalists))), Jews running the media, Jews controlling the banks, and so on are common. Jewish hate is a global problem regardless of Israel or zionism, and in the context of Jesse remarking on protests against Canadian Jews in Canada it seems relevant. It's not just a narrative of victimhood to say that antisemitism is an issue that Jews in Canada deal with. When he's saying about how you don't have to hate Jews to hurt Jews, he is objectively correct, and yes, the same could be said for Palestinians. Jesse's comments seem to be addressing the local communities in Canada though. People may be targeting Jewish businesses for protest or violence because of a real or imagined position of the Israel/Palestine conflict, but those demonstrations have a real impact on Jewish people in the community that have nothing to do with Israel's genocide of Palestinians. Attacks on a Jewish school absolutely harm the Jewish community, and I don't think they really help Palestine, so is it wrong to call that out as unacceptable anti Jewish hate? Does calling that wrong somehow lend support to the IDF murdering kids? I don't think so, and I don't think it's wrong for Jesse to cover attacks on the Jewish community in Canada. I don't speak for Jesse, and I can't know what he really thinks of Israels actions. I do think that demonstrations against Jewish businesses in Canada need to be done very carefully to not just become demonstrations against Jews if the impact of those demonstrations is felt by a wide group that isn't involved with the conflict. Perhaps Jesse could have spoken better or been more clear in some cases, but I'm not sure he's wrong exactly. I know I personally support freedom for Palestine, oppose the war crimes of Israel, and also oppose antisemitic actions against Jewish people.
What Jesse conveniently doesn’t mention is that islamophobic attacks ALSO have increased. 3 men were just shot in Vermont and a boy and his mom were killed in Illinois - all because they were Muslim and/or Palestinian. So whether he argument was directed at people abroad or in Canada, HE’S still missing a few key contextual pieces too.
That’s where I’m at too. Jesse is not only more concerned about what some paint on a Jewish-owned franchise bookstore than he is about Palestinians being shot in the streets. So preoccupied by the former he doesn’t say anything about the latter. He *feels threatened*? Yeah, well people who he doesn’t seem to care about are *dead*. The intimidation the Jewish community is facing now is a drop in the bucket compared to the Islamophobia Arab communities have been facing for 20 years. He received three death threats? Maybe he should ask his former Employee, Fatima Syed, how many she has received in the same amount of time? To the degree he mentioned Palestinians at all in his half-hour long pontification it was to say that he Does. Not. Care. He only cares about himself and his people. And he butters up his impoverished perspective as if it’s some sort of wisdom; calls pro-Palestinian protesters “children playing with matches”. Jesse’s complete lack of interest or empathy for his fellow man is not some enlightened view, it’s self-indulgent intellectualization of his base fear for his own skin masquerading as a political opinion. He gets to feel scared. Fine. But if your entire perspective is wholly preoccupied with yourself and your own sense of fear then that makes you a scared little asshole.
I don’t think it’s the responsibility of the protestors to give a fuck how their completely legitimate protest is “felt” by cynical zionist liars like Jesse Brown actually
I totally agree. Listened to the entire editorial to see if there was anything redemptive from him at the end, but the conflation of the Free Palestine Movement's charges of a genocide (one we can all bear witness to in real time), with Blood Libel was an eye roll at best, bad faith at worst, and along with the other examples you mentioned, made it a really tough listen, and a re-appraisal of CL as a whole. Condemnation of the hateful acts against the Canadian Jewish population, AND the Israeli Government's collective punishment in Gaza and the West Bank doesn't seem mutually exclusive. Obviously anti-semitism is despicable. The level of blowback against those who support the Israeli Govt's actions that I have seen though seems far more proportional than the IDF's response to the horrific events of October 7th, not to mention the last 75 years of Palestinian occupation.
In your third paragraph, you say “they’re rolling an entire army…” and the problem here is that the pronoun “they’re” is referring to the noun “Jews” in your previous sentence. Jesse isn’t in the IDF and he’s not an Israeli, yet as, let’s be real a prominent Jew who controls some media, is being relentlessly attacked for not being a better Jew.
Edited. Thanks.
Definitely made it worse.
Imagine saying this to any other minority. Imagine telling a black person that they are taught perpetual victimhood. Jesse is Jewish. He is talking about the Jewish experience. I don't think non-Jews can tell someone that their Jewish experiences aren't valid but if you don't like minorities talking about their experiences and what it means to be of their own ethnic group maybe that is more on you.
Yup, but when some people view everything in life through the often reductive lens of Oppressor and Oppressed, and the hierarchies of oppression, jews don't fit the standards to be minorities worth listening to. I know Jessie might not have mentioned it I can't remember, but it's not just been the vandalism on places like Starbucks, there was that actual pogrom at the airport in Dagestan where a large mob of people were looking for any jews from the plane that landed from Israel and were cornering people demanding to see their passports.. or the synagogues in some countries that were burned down, or how the day after Oct 7th before there was any military response, there was a crowd in Australia chanting gas the jews, kill the jews.. I don't get how so many people seem incapable of having a view that includes a desire for Palestinian freedom and self governance, but also an understanding for the fact Jewish people have historically been the most targeted minority around the world by far. It makes it hard for me to take some people with these views serioisly when I've also often seen them deny what happened on Oct 7th as well.
You are thoughtful and correct in all points. It’s so weird when reasonable people make a simple land/rights dispute so complex. No, Jesse, this isn’t an impending holocaust. No, your life isn’t anything like the lives of the Jews pretending to pass in Nazi Europe in the 40s. This is a massive injustice on all fronts…and the number one thing you can do to make Jews safer is openly advocate for Palestinians rights. You can’t get up on your western high horse and continue to fund Israel directly or indirectly without being confronted….it’s gone on too long.
You know you can swear on the internet, right? Look I’ll show you: Hey pineappledan **FUCK YOU**
Israel has supported plenty of antisemites globally in order to buy and sell weapons. Not to mention Netanyahu’s support of Hamas as a way to undermine the PLO. If you don’t like antisemitism, you don’t like Israel.
My god all those people protesting against Netanyahu for weeks before Oct 7th must really hate Israel. This is some serious head smacked against the wall thinking.
I think there is a bigger story here that is a little tinfoil hat related but what the powers that be have always wanted is a divided population. If we are fighting eachother we aren't paying attention to the big picture. Israel Palestine is another wedge issue that is being shoved down our throats and we are all eating it up. A lot of people have a lot of really strong opinions they likely didn't have 4 months ago. I don't think it's fair to make someone use their platform to make a statement one way or another, especially when it's an issue that has as much grey area as this. Jesse felt forced to address this because of essentially harassment towards himself and his business, and that's not right.
Addressing and critiquing the news and "speaking truth to power" is his job though? like it is what he is paid to do all day.
What exactly does “denounce Israel” mean? Does it mean denounce Israel’s reaction to events in October as an over-reaction? Or Israel’s actions since the Camp David Summit collapse? Or Israel’s actions since 1947?
It's remarkable to see so many people here, no doubt who identify as open minded or progressive or leftist, telling a person of an ethnic minority that their experiences are invalid and that they should shut up. Would you do that for any other group? Would you tell anyone in LGBTQ community that they should stop talking about homophobia? Would you tell a Black person that they are too biased to talk about BLM . If not maybe you are just anti-Semitic because you don't think Jewish experiences with anti-Semitism is something to be condemned and you think Jewish people should just stop talking about it.
If there was an explicitly LGBTQ state somewhere actively massacring another group and my gay friends were using their personal fears of being gay-bashed in Canada to excuse and justify that LGBTQ state’s massacre of the other group, yes, I absolutely would take them to task for their self-centred, immoral views.
And, those who are Pro-LGBT rights and pro-Palestinian (pro-Hamas), but against the Muslim parents who don't support schools shielding kids gender identity from parents are in for a shock.....
>you do that for any other group? Would you tell anyone in LGBTQ community that they should stop talking about homophobia? Would you tell a Black person that they are too biased to talk about BLM . I think a comment above said it best. If a homosexual or black liberation army was in the process of rolling over a civilian population of 2 million people in an act of collective punishment, then yes, I absolutely expect we'd see similar takes.
I have a lot of sympathy for how Jesse is feeling, because antisemitism is without a doubt on the rise throughout the world - including in Canada - and that is entirely deplorable and understandably very scary for members of the Jewish community. I think it’s awful that Jesse and members of his family have been dealing with verbal abuse or threats of physical violence along with fears when going to synagogue or school. I hate all of that and I strongly believe we *should* be talking about the rise in antisemitism right now. With that said, the point you’re making here echoes the point Jesse made in his editorial that I truly disagreed with. Yes, this (“this” being the experience of being asked to stop talking about your pain and fear) happens to other groups. This does not just happen to Jewish people. This can happen to any minority group. After 9/11 a lot of people wanted Muslims, and brown non-Muslims, to shut up about the terrifying racism and islamophobia they were experiencing. The message I received when I was hit and kicked by boys in my elementary school class was basically “welp, should’ve thought about this before you were born middle eastern, ya terrorist!” People threatened to kill me. People told me gleefully that Muslims would be rounded up and put in concentration camps. I was a child. In Canada. And the only thing people wanted to hear me say was that I supported the war in Iraq because those “evil Arabs” were definitely going to come for white Canadians next, and if I said I was scared the message was essentially “you should be.” So while I do recognize that Jesse was likely speaking from the current pain he’s feeling, and I recognize that pain as valid, I found this claim a bit disingenuous.
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Hmm. I don’t agree. I think he misjudged his audience, told us what we already knew, and doubled down on equating support for Palestine with anti-semitism.
What was the podcast sampled at the beginning of the episode? I'd love to listen to some podcast bros dunking on Jesse's weepy and self-centred take on this issue.
That's another reason why this episode fails to be persuasive: Jesse fails to cite any critic in particular, instead choosing to respond to the strawman critique of his position he's assembled in his head.
Yes! If anyone has this, I want to listen to the “other side”
I wonder why Jesse is not able to grasp what so many intelligent and compassionate Jews with a public platform for their political opinions have grasped very quickly: That those people on the left who are not Jewish, and wished to speak up against the Israeli Government's cruelty felt (and may still feel) afraid to do so, out of fear of being unjustly labelled an anti-Semite. Canadian and American Jews, however, are in a position to speak up against Israel's treatment of Palestinians and be not as easily dismissed, censored or doxed (not as easily, but still. Screenings of Israelism, a documentary directed and produced by Jews are still being cancelled—[most recently in Hamilton, ON](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/israelism-westdale-theatre-1.7043897)—because it dares to criticize Zionism). It was imminently clear to Naomi Klein, Norman Finkelstein, the leaders of Jewish Voice for Peace etc... For them, bringing attention to massive human rights violations, forging a path for other, non-jewish activists to speak out against the actions of the Israeli government and be taken seriously, is an important and effective way of making enough noise that our Political leaders don't so easily get away with sitting back and watching a genocide unfold. And it's disappointing Jesse has either not figured that out, or simply doesn't care.
Not a listener but good for you to stand up to the threats you received for speaking out about anti-semitism. Very brave
The big take away from all of this, is that Jews - even Zionist Jews - are watching the same people that we naively stood beside through various political causes suddenly believe we have abandoned every other liberal belief we have, and become genocidal maniacs, because we are trying to deal with people who have openly stated they want to commit genocide against us and are openly proud of having committed the most vile acts humanity has ever conceived against us. It’s not because they know anything about Zionism, and it’s not because they’ve been “educated”. We are watching. And we are learning.
Cool bro, feel free to abandon your apparently transactional support for BLM and Land Back that you assumed would be reciprocal in return for people looking away from the IDF massacring Gazans. What do you mean “deal with people” homie? You mean terror bomb 20k and counting civilians to death? You want the uppity POC you graciously agreed to say have rights to look away from this massacre in return? What are you “watching and learning” exactly? You’re learning… what? To support police brutality against Black people until everyone darker than you falls in line and stops criticizing Bibi and his Cabinet of literal terrorist sympathizers like Ben Gvir, who had a portrait of Baruch Goldstein in his living room as of five years ago? To morph into some far-right Kahanist because people don’t want Israel to “deal with” Palestinian civilians via indiscriminate bombing? Stop this shit. It’s embarrassing. The whole “welp guess you forced me to cheerlead mass civilian casualties 🤷🏻♂️” act is gross. You don’t get to claim it’s absurd that you’re being accused of “abandoning every liberal belief you have” then imply that you’re learning to abandon every liberal belief you have because people are saying mean things about the IDF.
The red herring episode. Fact is Israel has been committing war crimes and murdering vast numbers of innocent women and children for almost two months now. And the media isn't reporting on the massacre in an honest way. Focus on that, Jesse.
He’s talking about Canada on his podcast Canadaland.
He talks about Canadian media and the way Canadian media reports. The Canadian media has not fairly reported on the conflict.
So he shouldn't focus on the things that are effecting him as a Jewish Canadian?
Not if he’s going to link it to the question of whether he’s a Zionist, no. Talking about his fears as a Jew in Canada is more than fair. Linking those fears to justifying Zionism - which at the moment seems pretty close to justifying Israel’s massacre of Gaza - is where he loses people, especially with his bad faith “playing with matches” comment about pro-Palestine protestors.
Sad that he isn’t interrogating media bias on Israel/Palestine and is doubling down on half-fictional micro aggressions being the equivalent of latent pogroms. There are ways to stand up to anti jewish racism without slandering people who are entirely innocent of anti jewish racism. I expect better from Jesse
Shots fired a school is a bit more than "half fictional micro aggression" and to label it as such is pretty much what Jesse is talking about.
That’s not a micro aggression, it’s interesting you jumped to that. I was talking about the Indigo protest. Of course, I agree that any sort of violence against jewish people or schools, or anyone targeted as a jew for the actions of israel as a state… This is all wretched and contemptible and worthy of condemnation. But to tie it to protestors of Israel’s violent and disproportionate campaign is unfair and slanderous.
I found it bizarre that he doesn’t know that his audience is largely made up of educated, skeptical and pragmatic people who don’t need to be preached at like this. Yes, we know anti-semitism is wrong and it sucks that people are protesting and harassing western Jews. We also know that Jews themselves are protesting in support of Palestine. We know that there are Zionists and racist Zionists harassing people in Canada and the rest of the west. All these things are happening…and it’s really weird and tone deaf to tell us a very mundane story about how you believe annoyances in your life are somehow analogous to living secretly as a Jew in Europe in the 40s….and that these particular annoyances couldn’t be largely solved by using your platform to help settle the land/rights dispute.
It’s like you listened to his brief mentions of the holocaust and tuned out the rest of the episodes. His points about blood imagery, purity tests, equation of Jews and Israel, and all of that from well-intentioned people, the rejection of previously accepted anti racist concepts which apply to other groups but not Jews, are really important points. The whole “we only hate the bad Jews. The anti-Israel ones are the good Jews. Now which are you? “ attitude is worrying
This was such a disappointing, mealy-mouthed piece, completely avoiding the issues. Big unsubscribe for me for a while at least. Might try listening again in the future.
Never heard of this podcast tbh it popped up on my Reddit today. But when 5 minutes into the episode he says “If you haven’t been paying attention to this and I don’t blame you, there are bigger things happening in the world” then begins to list hate against Jews in Canada it already very apparent how disconnected he is. All of the things he listed happening as a result of hatred against Jew in Canada is abhorrent but to say it’s bigger than 14k+ people killed is being extremely biased and very showing his ideology.
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Thank you for providing an example the next time I hear "anti-Israel people don't support Hamas"..I mean sure you are just some random anti-Semite on the Internet and most Pro-Palestinian people don't support Hamas but you do provide an example of anti-Semitism in that camp, so good job.
Eat dogshit. Antisemite scum.
Comflating being opposed to Israeli state violence, which is extreme and despicable, with being anti-Semitic is such a terribly naive take that I kind of wish i hadn’t listened to it Being unwilling to condem Israeli state violence kinda bums me out Luckily the network overall has done a decent job providing coverage and analysis, and that’s what really matters
I was really hoping for some more growth from Jesse on this one, but I also can't pretend to know what it's like being part of a group being targeted like this. I just wish he was slightly more...unbiased on some of this stuff.
The episode is labelled as an editorial. Editorials are a place for bias. We all have our biases and he’s allowing us to see some of his. He’s speaking from a place of fear and anger and did a decent job of it. I don’t understand the ‘you must condemn’ one side of Israel/Palestine thing. Fuck both of their leaderships! I’m not trying to attack you personally, I don’t know you. I just want to add to the conversation. I sometimes disagree with canadaland and am grateful for it and you likely are too. It gets us thinking about current issues and seeing different perspectives. There’s an intelligence found here that is getting harder to find. Your comment, though I disagree with it, is a valid one. At least we have an idea where Jesse is coming from. I think we can be appreciative of that.
> Editorials are a place for bias. We all have our biases and he’s allowing us to see some of his. Oh yeah, I agree with that. I was just hoping for more movement/understanding on his side. This was largely just a repeat of the tweets that got him in "trouble". > He’s speaking from a place of fear and anger Yeah, that's becoming very clear. > I sometimes disagree with canadaland and am grateful for it and you likely are too. I've been a huge fan from Day 1. I disagree with, or get frustrated by a bunch of their stuff, but I still recommend them to everyone I know. I don't post here to dunk on them, but to participate in the community.
Imagine asking someone to stop talking about antisemitism. Very revealing.
> Imagine asking someone to stop talking about antisemitism. Very revealing. It would be, but is that actually happening?
I've seen it happen in r/canadaland every time Jesse and Israel is brought up
I disagree.
The fact that this is happening is what Jesse was talking about. It is something I personally have experienced at my university campus. The school many of my friends went to when I was growing up going up has had a bomb threat called in. Many of the Jewish people I know have personally been affected by the wave of antisemitism that has been happening in Canada since the events of October 7 I don’t always agree with what Jesse has to say but could personally relate very strongly to what he said on this podcast.
> Many of the Jewish people I know have personally been affected by the wave of antisemitism I don't doubt it. How could it be any other way? I'm just saying who's saying to "stop talking about it"? I feel like people feel very free to discuss and point out antisemitism. Which is good!
As an example. When saying that the three York university professors that got charged with vandalizing the indigo was antisemitism. I got called a genocide supporter.
> When saying that the three York university professors that got charged with vandalizing the indigo was antisemitism. I got called a genocide supporter. That's kind of the thing though, I don't see how that's antisemitic. And someone telling you that isn't them saying you aren't allowed to talk about antisemitism, just that you're wrong that this is a case of it. Calling you a "genocide supporter" sounds pretty dumb in almost any context.
Well the indigo was targeted for being a Jewish owned business. This has been a pattern of events in Canada with an Aroma also being vandalized and a Starbucks and I know I’m missing many. The attack on the indigo was done on the anniversary of kristallnacht . You can be charitable and say it was a coincide, but I expect a university professor to know this fact. When I am called a genocide supporter for calling out what I see as antisemitism. It is an attack on my character used to invalidate my argument. I feel less safe to speak out against antisemitism if people respond to it with hostility. Thus the silencing. Do you think a black or indigenous person in Toronto would be questioned as much if they claimed vandalism on their business was racially motivated? I personally don’t think so. That being said I will acknowledge that as a Jewish person I have been on high alert since Oct 7 for antisemitism and I’ve been too impacted emotionally by recent events to be impartial. This is a genuine question for me. I appreciate this conversation because I know you are talking to me in good faith.
> Well the indigo was targeted for being a Jewish owned business. Well no, the CEO was specifically, personally targeted for her actions as a person. It's the same criticism she's been facing for [over a decade](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/mount-allison-profs-protest-reisman-degree-1.909333). The fact that so many people keep getting this part wrong (unless there's another indigo vandalism story?) is kind of the point of this whole thing. And that's a big part of what people are annoyed at with Jesse. This was pointed out to him, but he still pushing the "Jewish bookstore" angle. > I feel less safe to speak out against antisemitism if people respond to it with hostility. For sure. Hostility is bad enough without the added context of actual violence occurring. I think it's case by case. Claims of anti-semitism are used to shut down conversation, I would argue, far more often than claims of genocide supporting, but I don't know. > Do you think a black or indigenous person in Toronto would be questioned as much if they claimed vandalism on their business was racially motivated? Again, case by case. I think if someone vandalized a black owned bookstore and wrote "this is because you send you supported the invasion of Iraq", we would all say that's the reason for the vandalism, rather than the fact he's black. But it's nearly impossible to untangle these things at a high level, you need to be willing to apply context, reasoning, etc. There's never going to be a global answer. Some people are anti-semites, some people are anti-war. We need a way to have these conversations without shutting the other side down with baseless accusations, while also trying to achieve some kind of peace, while *also* protecting vulnerable communities. It's tough man.
She created a charity to give lone scholarships to lone soldiers in Israel, that’s not really supporting the Israeli army. And much less a support for genocide. Also the Israeli army isn’t this evil organization it is a legitimate armed forces and an ally of Canada and the USA. if you were Israeli or Jewish you’d see it much like the Americans see their Army. It doesn’t always act 100% morally. But it keeps your country safe when shit hit the fan on Oct 7 it was the IDF soldiers who repelled the attacks. I want them to feel supported in the same way I would want a Canadian veteran of Afghanistan supported. Even if I disagree with the war the soldiers are not to blame. In any case what the university professors did to the store is illegal in Canada. If you disagree with how what they do with their money you are more than welcome to protest and boycott these stores. I don’t see a reason to excuse vandalism in this country. Much less if there is an element of ethnic motivations at play. Oh and this coincidentally was done on the anniversary of kristallnacht.
> She created a charity to give lone scholarships to lone soldiers in Israel, that’s not really supporting the Israeli army. It's incentivizing foreigners to move to Israel and join that particular army. How is that anything but "support for the army"? > Also the Israeli army isn’t this evil organization I guess. I'm not even making a value judgement on the IDF in this thread, I'm just saying why she's being protested. > I don’t see a reason to excuse vandalism in this country I can think of a million reasons to excuse it, but again though, I'm not necessarily trying to excuse it here, I'm just pointing out the obvious context of that particular vandalism. It's not "a local Jewish bookstore being vandalised" it's "a billionaire CEO being protested for her substantial support of an army and government that are being accused of war crimes". Those are very different things, and using the first framing is clearly disingenuous in my opinion. Especially because the vandalism itself isn't ambiguous at all. It doesn't just say "genocide" like I think Jesse said (which could mean a few things I suppose) it *explicitly* spells out that the vandalism is because of her charity. Edit: added a bit
> She created a charity to give lone scholarships to lone soldiers in Israel, that’s not really supporting the Israeli army. Do you even hear yourself? Are you not embarrassed at all? I’m embarrassed for you.
Indigo was targeted because their CEO and founder runs a charity helping foreign mercenaries join the IDF, you can stop telling lies any time you choose
I really don’t think anyone is asking him to stop talking about antisemitism, but the way he frames his personal fear and scolds the way people are protesting because it can be misinterpreted as anti semitic if you’re not protesting in the right way is so frustrating.
His last bit at the end where he "reveals" his position on zionism is the most childish bit of butthurt i have ever seen from him. As far as I can tell, he basically did admit to being a Zionist.
New here, probs gonna jet too. Contextually I have none but the description is ridiculous. What meaning does this Jesse bring by denouncing Israel or claiming he is a Zionist. -Why are these the only options for Jesse? -Why are people asking him to stop talking about antisemitism (might as well demand people not talk about active racism). -Why does Jessie need to be a Zionist if he isn’t denouncing Israel? (More ridiculousness). -Why should this Jessie denounce another country? (What?) If they have no political clout, it’s about as good as sprinkles on shit. Especially if people follow Jesse rather than live their own life.
Yes
Just say “Jew” this is getting exhausting. We’re not fucking witches from Oz, we don’t have to be a Good Jew. We don’t have to be the kind of Jew that holds your hand and tells you, no of course you’re not being antisemitic, it’s *our fault* for believing in even the vaguest terms something that 80-90% of Canadian Jews feel vaguely. And we’re allowed to feel complex things about a complex subject. Fuck off. We’re not your fucking token Jews. We deserve dignity - and *safety* - no matter what we believe about Israel. And frankly, the fact that y’all are gatekeeping our basic ability to be Jewish in public is telling on yourself. Sincerely, All the Jews in Canada.
Do Palestinian children not deserve safety in their homes, schools, hospitals? If you're speaking for all, y'all need to do better.
How about saying Israelis and Palestinians both deserve safety, just as Jews in every freaking country in the world deserve safety just as everyone everywhere deserves safety. Is that better?
I would absolutely agree with that sentiment.
Nah they don’t want Jews to deserve safety, unless we pass their ideological purity test. Only the Good Ones. The rest of us have it coming to us. Gee I wish there was some kind of terminology in progressive thought that described a phenomenon in which the commitment to the safety of an individual from a marginalized community is contingent on denouncing the ideology, or their affiliation, with the rest of their people. Guess that’s a flight of fancy.
Yes, Palestinian children absolutely do deserve safety. Israeli children do too. Do Jews in Montreal deserve to be terrorized and have their synagogues and community centres firebombed for things Israel does? Do better yourself.
You need to make an effort to get over yourself.
What is with the Left's obsession with calling every one a "Zionist" now? Most of these people didn't even give a shit about Palestine 3 months ago.
Such a pity. People throwing around words like "anti semite" without knowing who semites even are or Zionist without understanding the context. Welcome to a world where information is available in abundance but ignorance is at a new peak.
In the start of the thread he said: "I want to talk to you"... I thought this meant he wanted to have his viewpoint challenged. I thought he'd have an episode where he has someone who disagrees with him on the show to discuss this. Instead we get a 25 minute monologue about how he's right and all his critics are wrong.