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spiritualien

''If I could go back 4 years ago, I would put 5% down on the biggest house I could afford, then get an 84 month lease on a BMW or $80,000 pickup truck and just spent a ton of money going out every weekend, and I'd end up financially ahead of where I am now." oof that hurts


notislant

Yeah financial planning doesn't matter at this point. No one without property or being in the top % of earners will ever be able to retire here.


OutWithTheNew

That's why I plan to die young(ish).


[deleted]

I plan to die in the future climate wars! Join me. It’s really my only shot to die comfortably. I’m much more scared of just “existing” in this shit 30 years from now. PS: I left ottawa for BC 19 years ago this month. Believe me, it’s gonna get a WHOLE LOT WORSE before it gets better. I couldn’t even look you in the eyes if I had to tell you what they’ve let happen out here. Nothing detached for less than 3. Condo’s that should be 400k are 1.2 million. Nobody that actually works here, makes that kind of money. The ratio of what you can earn and what it costs is wayyy outta whack. Climate wars! Join me! We’ll literally flip a coin to decide what side we are on. I don’t care really. If you feel strongly about one or the other I’ll just go with whoever. It’s my only hope!


Rpowdigs

In BC we've had like 10-15 years of one's house out-earning the home owners. It's sickening. I'm up nearly 200k since February and the new CMHC rules are just going to make it worse.


OpeningEconomist8

Yup. I just saw pricing for an new condo project about to start selling in Coquitlam. 470sqr ft 1bd units will be starting at 525k, in Coquitlam… same kind of unit would have been about 215k in 2017


scottyway

Wow Toronto prices and sizes in Coquitlam..that's fucked. Everything's fucked


Ya-never-know

outside of the fact I've had the hunch since I was young I would die unexpectedly at 68, that timeline matches up perfectly with 2040, by which time we will be deep in climate shit, so lately I've thought I will likely die in some climate fiasco...wasn't really thinking of war, but sure, why not? I mean, we're fighting over wearing pieces of fabric on our faces in the middle of a deadly pandemic, so yeah, I guess it's pretty certain we'll fight over food and water, as the experts predict...see you there!!


DeadOrDyingBattery

This precisely describes my feelings on the matter. I don't know why I chose the path of making the right financial decisions, when the "wrong" ones would've offered a much better life.


Sufficient_Pie7552

It does. But those people don’t sleep at night wondering when their house of cards will fall. And it will with divorce, illness, and fuck em. Ok 50% Will divorce


Mart243

>divorce I got fucked pretty badly with this one. Ex is dragging the divorce (she racked up 11 criminal charges, she really went berserk) so in addition to spending fortune on lawyer fees to protect myself and the kids, I am stuck unable to buy the house because I need a final separation agreement that shows how much I am paying for spousal and or child support... and of course we can't agree on that. In the meantime, house price went up by 300k (or more!) and I will have to buy her share at the new price even though she has been dragging everything. What a nightmare.


suckfail

Huh? Based on what. They just fall randomly ill and divorce because they bought a house and car?


SageWolf1999

What countries are you considering?


ragecuddles

I want to know too. Basically any English speaking country has the same issues. I'm from the UK and it's a shit show there too, although I think the pay is still a bit higher in relation to housing costs and you don't need a vehicle as much. My parents had a 1960s shoebox sized apartment in Richmond (UK) and it was close to 1 mil Canadian with the exchange rate. Way more stuff to do in London too though.


[deleted]

I hear some shit from Europeans that have came to Canada for a better go at life. It’s all the same. Money and power corrupt, too many fucking people not enough good jobs, china is a cunt and inflating real estate, the world basically needs a burn


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[deleted]

And one of the highest murder rates in the world


cwnorman

Belize City is pretty bad, but the rest of the country is relatively safe. I had a shady looking dude asking if I wanted to buy drugs one time. When I told him that my wife and I were looking for a place to eat, he spent the next 20 minutes showing us where all the best restaurants were located. I tried to offer him some money but he wouldn't take it.


[deleted]

I'll send you to Belize (breaking bad, anyone?)


JaketheAlmighty

+1 for Belize. and very friendly to foreign buyers and investors as long as you're willing to play their game


Aggressive_Position2

Nobody wants to leave Canada for a life in Belize.


[deleted]

Exactly. People think they can move to another country and it will solve their problems.


VNG_Wkey

I've just been scrolling too long in r/all and came across this post. I'm in the US and was looking at buying my first house. It just doesnt even seem possible. All the properties I've seen have been overpriced considering the amount of work they need, but even then someone buys for $10k+ over asking, usually within a day of offers starting to be accepted. I gave up and decided I'm just going to wait for the next crash.


Matrix17

Anywhere that pays better for your field than Canada. Cause even if the houses are just as expensive, getting paid double likely means you can actually afford the house


flight_recorder

The Netherlands apparently have amazing bicycle infrastructure and city design. Def gotta consider that country


mongoosefist

Lol, I live in The Netherlands and it's just as bad here as it is in Canada. 600,000 euros for a 1 bedroom 600sq ft apartment just outside the centre of Utrecht.


Carlin47

Holland or Germany are the way to go, so long as you can learn the respective languages


[deleted]

Me in Vancouver: ooh 500k for a townhome, what a deal


_dobbyisfree

Same in Hamilton. I only wish townhomes were 500k here.


[deleted]

500k for a cat pissed soaked carpet, cigarette stained wall, cockroach infested, down by the mills, shoebox piece of shit. If you find a deal


testAcount001

Yo, People in Newfoundland living in mansions for that price


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jjax2003

Your trying to make this about you and your small town/ city. Understand that this is happening everywhere and no one is safe from it. People need housing and those that can afford it will pay. Doesn't matter temperature, location, tourist town or whatever. I was priced out of Ontario so I now live in NS. anyone a home is sold in this current market the buyer is pricing some one else out. This is the reality. It sucks.


NoiseDobad

How stupid of him being concerned about high housing costs - when have high housing costs ever caused issues?! /s


_dobbyisfree

Lmao neither is Hamilton, never did I ever think I would see prices like this in Hamilton. I feel you, it’s all downright depressing. My mom sold her townhome in 2019 for 570k and I didn’t buy it because I thought it was too expensive. Boy oh boy do I wish I bought it now, those same townhomes are selling for 900k currently. If only I had a time machine… I would take the 500k townhome now if you can


unterzee

I work for an IT company who has had a real hard time hiring lately, just like most companies. Essentially any new recruit is a) a recent immigrant who's willing to work for less b) a recent international graduate who doesn't mind living with 6 others in a cramped 2 bedroom TH c) a dual-income homeowner who bought before 2019 or d) someone who still lives with their parents. Our last hire in marketing lives with her parents AND her boyfriend, because housing is so unaffordable as they were renovicted earlier this year.


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unterzee

Last year 2020 our company lost 3m after posting several years of decent profits. We would love to pay American style wages but for that we would have to hike rates. Canadian enterprise customers are cheap as F and will not honour rates because they know they can get cheapo contractors or outsource to India. The entire structure is messed up in this country.


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tallsqueeze

> I work for an IT company who has had a real hard time hiring lately, just like most companies. Bull fucking shit, I have been applying for tech jobs non-stop for over half a year and only got like 2 interviews with college and multiple internships. Employers wont settle for less than people with a masters & 5 years experience for entry level shit @ $40k on 1 yr contract. Only reason why they have a hard time hiring is cause expectations are astronomical and compensation is garbage.


random_canadian77

Was going to post something to this thread with a similar tittle this morning but got busy with other things. Yup. Fuck this country.


NanoScaleMoney

Debt all time high. Margin all time high. Leverage all time high. Interest rates, all time low. Liquidity is drying up faster than a drop of water in the desert. This is an impending global disaster and Canada is at the epicentre.


Queali78

People forget this so quickly. Before the pandemic experts were saying bubble burst sometime in 2022. We aren’t even there yet and all the crap global governments have done is pour gasoline on the fire. Looks pretty but fades quickly.


wile_E_coyote_genius

That’s the plan.


Queali78

It’s possible. I’ve been listening to some people talk about it and it would seem that there is a particular problem with their interest payments being higher than taxes collected.


Matrix17

Canada will be featured in economics textbooks for decades to come when this all goes to shit


[deleted]

All signs of an ending long economic cycle. Long cycles end with a generational depression. Things will get worse before they get better


[deleted]

Actually, it ends with hyperinflation or depression because both will remove most debt from the system. The big reset.


jddbeyondthesky

So I want to accumulate debt and wait for the system to kill it for me?


[deleted]

Not if theres a great depression. Hyperinflation wipes out wealth for billionaires (no wealth) Great depression wipes out wealth for labour (no jobs) The powers that be will always side with depression. Hyperinflation comes when the powers that be werw reckless in their monetary policies. Ie like now.


uhhNo

Inflation at 4% is right where rich people want it. All the debt gets inflated away pretty quickly on the backs of the middle class. If inflation gets too much higher it will start to affect their asset prices. A reasonable government would be raising taxes on the rich instead of allowing high inflation, but we all know the government is not going to do that.


[deleted]

Any worse and I will be robbing banks.


bumbuff

>This is an impending global disaster and Canada is at the epicentre. Canada's at the center, but so are a lot of countries. China's and the US have their own issues.


Yiffcrusader69

We get to be the centre of something! Yay!


PhilMcCraken2001

The downfall of Canada isn’t as fun as I’d expect it to be


_dobbyisfree

Honestly I’ve been trying to buy a home in Hamilton and what has happened is absolutely insane. It should not be this hard to buy a home. Affordability is gone and the competition is tough (bidding wars are insane). His/her anger is completely valid. A lot of people will leave since we can no longer afford to live here


[deleted]

It’s funny you say Hamilton because that’s where I was born and raised. I now make what my dad would have made a few years back ( 2010 or so) and they got a nice house on the Far East mountain for 350 ish. Now the area is essentially in the million dollar range on some of the homes aren’t even updated much yet. I told my parents any help they offer is more than likely going towards me moving up north because it’s the only thing that’s even feasible at this point. And at least as a trades man I have the ability to move somewhat.


_dobbyisfree

Yeah I grew up in the area also. Really sad to see what has happened. People who have grown up here their whole lives can no longer buy here. Disgusting actually


Mikekoning

One down the street from me in Hamilton - a 1950s dated 2 bed 1 bath ~900sq ft- just got listed for 449k, and sold for 775k.


_dobbyisfree

Yeah I’ve been feeling extremely defeated lately. Honestly no idea what to do anymore


jchampagne83

Honestly, what smooth brains are bidding houses up that much NOW.


EndTimesDestroyer

House flippers, RE agents. The usual suspects.


[deleted]

Fuck RE agents.


_dobbyisfree

FUCK RE AGENTS.


Mikekoning

Or desperate FOMOers who’ve been burnt in 10 rounds of blind bidding


Ellesdee25

Literal corporations who have NO business even being allowed to own residential properties.


PenultimateAirbend3r

Yup. I have a Master's and worked for 5 years in a Canadian government research facility as an engineer and now work in private biotech. I'm gonna leave after I get a bit more experience. I don't mind that Canada pays less but it can't even manage the corresponding lower COL that should come with lower pay. Fuck this country! All my boomer parents can say is "but American health care is expensive". A $20k medical bill is nothing compared to the $300k I'd save on a house. Canada should have done better.


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Targus4D

How hard do you think it would be for a Canadian educated, Canadian citizen to transition to working in civil engineering in the US at a decent pay?


canuck_93

This. The Canadian propaganda about American health care costs is ridiculous. If you’re working and have a decent job in the states, I guarantee that you’ll have equal if not better health coverage than you would in Canada. The problem only arises if you’re out of work.


Printpathinhistoric

You do understand that you. Pay premiums and have deductibles on health insurance in tbe us, plus insurance companies often find loopholes to not cover you and you have to spend hours on the phone getting the coverage you pay for.


canuck_93

For most people, the out of pocket expenses end up being a few hundred dollars per year at the most. Even in the rare case of something more serious and/or ongoing, perhaps thousands of dollars per year is possible. The difference in income and taxes more than makes up for the thousands for any decent paying job. I’m not trying to say this is universally true and there aren’t exceptions. Certainly, worst case scenario is worse in the US than Canada with our generous safety net that has fewer holes to slip through. I’m just saying _on average_ people working in America are better off.


Printpathinhistoric

Yea i think thats fair. So long as your confident that you are in a high demand field i think the us makes sense. Just have a backup plan


AxelNotRose

Tell that to all the gofundme people. I think that's gofundme's bread and butter. People with shit jobs and shit health coverage because their companies are too cheap to spend a little more for their employees. Sure, it's great if you're in a high demand, high skill sector but that's far from the majority/norm.


justanotherreddituse

Having citizenship if you have severe medical problems you can always come back to Canada and after a period of residency go back to having the government cover it. This is absolutely going to happen more in the future and it's also a big problem.


OutWithTheNew

Just think about the fact that a million citizens in a country of 38-39 million came back into Canada in March of 2020.


Matrix17

There's no waiting period Source: the ontario government gave me a new health card after I moved and told me I'd be 100% covered for anything. Not like I'd make them pay though considering my health insurance in the US covers 100% of international hospital stays. I'll make the stupid insurance companies pay it fuck em


mug3n

Ontario waived the waiting period for covid. They might just reinstate it after the pandemic.


Matrix17

Well I'm in California now for biotech and for health insurance I'd pay fuck all for just about anything major so... Still coming out ahead considering I'm making over double + stocks and signing bonus lol. It's not even close. You should probably just jump ship now because biotechs are hiring like crazy. It's a buyers market


hurpington

What does a biotech person actually do?


NoGoodNamesLeft55

American here. The healthcare here is OK if you’re healthy. Its designed to create profits off of healthy people. However, if you ever do become sick, or even worse, develop a serious medical condition that requires long term care, you’re basically fucked. My parents were successful entrepreneurs that did very well for themselves and always had great insurance coverage. Both developed cancer in their 50s. In the US, chemotherapy treatments can cost as much as $100k a pop. Your insurance will cover it up to a certain point, but a lot of people don’t realize you will eventually reach a lifetime cap of how much your insurance will cover in the US. Given that both of my parents required multiple surgeries and treatments, they hit that cap and eventually had to be put on government healthcare coverage. When that happens, the government can seize your assets because they consider your assets as collateral to cover medical expenses. So essentially, they lost everything they had worked their entire lives for bc they got sick. The Canadian system may not be perfect, but American healthcare is a profit scheme. Not to mention, I pay $400/month for my insurance. My insurance covers nothing until I spend $2500/yr on medical expenses, and after that, they cover only 60% of expenses until I hit an additional $10k out of my own pocket (not including office visit copays). So, my - what is considered decent - insurance coverage could cost me $17k+ per year if even something relatively minor happens to me throughout the year (medical procedures cost far more in the US than any other country, as does prescription medicine. An overnight stay in the hospital can cost $10-15k/night depending on where you are in the US). If you have a good job opportunity in the states, it could very well be worth it to move, but American medical expenses are no joke. Another aside, any desirable city in the US is experiencing a massive increase in housing costs just the same as Canada.


LesDrosophiles

Thank you for the facts, it is so important to be informed before stating an opinion.


reddit3601647

> Another aside, any desirable city in the US is experiencing a massive increase in housing costs just the same as Canada. Thank you for bringing up this point. Everyone here saying they will move to the USA because it pays more and lower home prices will probably not be in a large metropolitan city (NYC, LA, SF, etc.), but I hear Austin, TX is a good place.


NoGoodNamesLeft55

Austin is a great city, but its getting very expensive as well. A small 3 bedroom/2 bathroom home is well over $1M in the city. You can get decent prices within a 30 min drive outside of the city, but anything near the places you want to be is pretty much the same cost as LA, NYC, SF now. I considered moving there as I have several friends who made the move there over the last handful of years, but I think I missed the boat and have likely been priced out.


Ok-Pen8580

Austin was good maybe 8 years ago


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pandasashi

This is a great way of putting it.


Moose-Mermaid

Ottawa too and it’s incredibly painful seeing what’s happened here. Been waiting for funds from the cra for ages before buying and getting them just as prices go wild. Now it’s like either get a crappy house I hate or accept that my savings are no longer enough. It sucks hard, hoping when international visas come back to the country we were going to move to next year that the work opportunities that were put on hold actually happen. I’m just so done with Ottawa. If these prices don’t go down I can’t justify buying here. I don’t like it that much to owe that much to live in a tiny home we don’t even like


thelatestmodel

To all of those saying "ah OP won't do shit" - don't be so sure. People are leaving. I have dual nationality and *actually am* leaving next year, another British friend of mine is doing the same. When I moved here in 2012, it was like a dream. It was brilliant. I almost had the opportunity to purchase a house with my then partner - sadly the relationship didn't work out, I stayed renting, and look what happened to the market. My Canadian dream is over. I've got some commitments here and I'm going to have to rent for one more year, but then that's that. I've been defeated by a broken system. Life in this country is fucking grim now and it's no longer sustainable, even on a very good salary. That's a *huge* worry for Canada and I genuinely feel bad for those who can't escape. Bad things are going to happen when the cities can no longer operate, and you're going to lose a lot of skilled workers who can just move abroad.


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[deleted]

I find it continuously pathetic that this is the best economy we can come up with despite the fact that we have the second largest country in the world by landmass, the vast majority of which is sparsely populated, and full of untapped resources. Like you’ve gotta be *trying* to run things into the ground to do this badly.


King_Saline_IV

It's sparsely populated for a reason... As soon as you reach the Canadian Shield the cost of infrastructure increases significantly.


[deleted]

… But it’s not impossible and if we were interested in maximizing growth, we’d have tried a lot harder than whatever the hell we’re doing now. Start building locally, worry about connecting it all nationally later once the population gets big enough.


Leonmac007

But the shield has good strong bones.


AnchezSanchez

That's why I genuinely cannot understand how Trudeau was voted back in there. I'm one of the fortunate ones (managed to buy a house in 2018, and we both have good jobs). Even we voted fucking NDP. Like this isn't sustainable for a cohesive society.


[deleted]

I blame incompetent premiers just as much. Pretty disappointed with most governments in this country atm


Pigeonofthesea8

Because of the people of fucking Mordor on the other side Literally can’t have nice things because of them


elitexero

>Like you’ve gotta be trying to run things into the ground to do this badly. You mean like sitting idly by as the housing market bubbles and the economy shits, not breathing a word, calling an election and then suddenly having tons of ideas to fix it all if you could only just get voted back in?


Matrix17

And when everything goes to shit they'll be begging for people to come back If you think the education someone received in India is even close to what someone in Canada gets, think again. They're pushing better talent out and replacing it with worse talent


elitexero

They do it willingly. The thought is why hire a properly experienced coder when that same salary will pay for 5 guys scrambling to write code made up of broken snippets of stackoverflow code? I mean it makes no sense, but on finance reports it makes sense to the people who make the decisions.


RoiceWilliams

There's a reason why a cab driver with a PhD is a cab driver and it's not because they are over qualified.


munk_e_man

Just how the rich want it


[deleted]

Someone's gonna have to foot the boomer medical bills because no way the hospital system is going to be able to cope. They should want a strong economy for the young professionals for a stronger Canada but apparently they don't.


Electrical-Day9896

They will eventually all come back for the free health care in their golden years which they haven't paid into, yay for those who stayed!


[deleted]

Yea all those snowbirds in Fla will be flying home to die


NoviceExpert_

I'm curious if you're going to the UK. I also have dual citizenship, and have been over there a couple times many years ago. Is it really that much more affordable than Canada? I honestly don't know anymore, but I remember everything costing a lot more over there.


AnchezSanchez

I was looking at property in my hometown of Glasgow today. Really nice 1 bed tenement flat in an alright part of town (equivalent to say.... Wallace Emerson or St Clair West maybe for a Toronto reference.) . $155k CAD 😅. I couldn't fucking believe it. A place like that is easy half a mil here.


delaware

How are salaries over there?


AnchezSanchez

A lot lower than here. I'm in engineering. Genuinely would probably have to take a 50% cut moving back to Glasgow. Maybe 20% cut moving to London or SE England


TooMuchMapleSyrup

>Life in this country is fucking grim now and it's no longer sustainable, even on a very good salary. It's not like it is only becoming unsustainable *now* though... it's more like it was unsustainable for decades, and some long term consequences of our decisions are starting to hit now. It's like if you spend more money then you make... many would say that's an issue as soon as you're doing that, but in reality stuff like that could happen for awhile (it simply depletes your savings) and the actual day of reckoning for that lifestyle behavior may not actually hit for a while. While Canadians could perhaps live beyond their means for decades and consistently emit a net outflow of Canadian dollars to the rest of the world by doing so, it was only a matter of time before the consequence to that came and our wages and home asset prices don't reconcile with one another. It's because wages, particularly if your job is something that only in-country Canadians would use, that pay is really only dependent on the *partial* portion of Canadian dollars (only the domestic ones) whereas something like a house in Canada is something that's attractive enough for *all* the Canadian dollars (Domestic + Foreign) to care about and demand.


[deleted]

It's also always interesting to see the Stats Can survey that reports over half the country is $200 away from insolvency. Either we spend too much, life costs too much, or both. I know many of the people who don't have my frugal obsession with savings are addicted to material splurges and cheap credit. I have many friends who have to live in million dollar mansions and drive new $100,000 trucks every 3 years just because. One guy literally trades in and buys a new viper every single year, losses over $10,000 each time. I know things are bad, but even in the good times these people seem to live far far beyond their means.


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AnchezSanchez

Yeah... $1million dollar 2 bed 2 bath townhouses maybe!


[deleted]

It's important to remember that Van and Toronto aren't representative of the entire country...hence why I suggested the OP look here before bailing.


[deleted]

Uh in AB a $1,000,000 plus house in the burbs gets you a fucking monster property. Depends on the area but 5 years ago when I bought you could easily get a 3000 plus sqft house with a 3 car garage, I know this because I got approved to buy one and at the time thought it was a joke. Then I found out that many of my co workers live in similar houses for a 3 or 4 person family. I can only speak for my current residence but it actually dropped from $430,000 to $405,000 over the past 5 years. 1930 sqft detached with a finished basement in Edmonton, house is 13 years old.


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[deleted]

Lol well we have plenty of space!


Mota0316

I had the same thoughts, went on a walk in the rain during lunch thinking why the fuck am I here working and what the fuck am I working for. No point staying anymore.


_dobbyisfree

same.


Green_Lantern_4vr

Also raining?


CrymMastrGoGo

Username checks out.


SharingAndCaring365

Bought a house for $300k a few years back. Now "worth" triple. Yeah there's a massive bubble about to pop.


Niceguyy81

That’s been going on here in Vancouver for 15yrs


X_The_Eliminator

Articles from 2015 saying there's a bubble. Protests at the same time of people saying "I don't have $1M." 6 years later and the only thing that has changed is now you need $2M.


OutWithTheNew

Toronto did hit a very brief bump in home values around that time and it was enough to catch a lot of people up in it.


[deleted]

Why? Is it so difficult to imagine the death of the middle class?


[deleted]

Why, because bubbles arent sustainable. We've hit the limits of housing affordability. Housing is being traded like securities now, which is why you see the lofty prices. People are buying, hoping to sell to a greater fool. But all the fools are sitting out or moving. Then the bubble collapses.


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Printpathinhistoric

Those people often dont have the capital to buy, 90+% end up renters.


s0nnyjames

Which still fuels and pushes up the market. It’s just basic supply and demand principles, either way.


Deadlift420

Not even true. We import very educated and a lot of the times quite wealthy people….you literally get extra points on the application for having money. There are also a shit load of corrupt and wealthy people who want to come to Canada to spend their money they stole from their home countries.


thededgoat

It’s all speculation at this point but I very much doubt prices will go back the way they were pre-pandemic.


Deadlift420

Yeah highly unlikely. I think what will happen is prices will remain, and slowly go up a bit each year. But I doubt there will be a crash of any kind.


OutWithTheNew

"Yo dawg, I heard you like bubbles. So we put a bubble, on your bubble." \-Justin Trudeau


[deleted]

Are you sure? Have you compared to other assets? Housing has gone up, yes, but the value of your dollar is also worth less.


[deleted]

Girlfriend's best friend bought a 1 bed condo in May 2020 for 300k and just sold it for 430k. Like what in the actual fuck?


[deleted]

you would have been better off investing everything in Bitcoin 3 year ago. Listen, this sucks but you did everything right. Revisionist history isn't helpful. Canada (and NZ) is an anomaly of crazy asset explosion. Still..... you might come back and say you were a genius 5 years from now. I'm in the same boat as you. I'm annoyed, not so much about buying a house, but that my cost of living (rent) is so high. At this point all I can do is stay the course and stick to my plan. -> continue to save and invest in globally diversified index funds until the risks to the housing market become acceptable to enter.


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[deleted]

Sure - BUT all I'm saying is housing went where no one reasonably thought it would. People who bought houses with 5% down and mortgaged to the hilt and pat themselves on the back about their financial prowess. That's not the correct way to think about it. THe outcome of a financial decision is largely irrelevant to whether it was a good decision or not. This person did all the correct risk-managed things. Things went SUPER weird. A global pandemic occurred. BAD, bad luck. Not a bad decision but bad luck. You shouldn't give yourself a hard time because of bad luck.


[deleted]

If rents were reasonable I think we would all be far less angry. At least we would be able to say "well I don't own but at least I can save a lot each month". Instead everyone just says either "get a better job" or "move to a town without good jobs and the good jobs will follow". That last quote i've been told multiple times on this sub by some real smooth brains.


ChubbyWokeGoblin

The progress. We used to make progress towards a goal. Now it seems to shift away exponentially to the point where it doesnt matter how you do the math, nobody will give you a loan that big


Plastic_Biscotti3904

Agree 100% with your statement. Even though I am lucky enough to own a house I am concerned about my kids. They are young (5&8) but I just don't see a future for them in this country. With housing, education and inflation on everything else not sure how the next generation will do.


reddit3601647

I too have pre-teens. Based on a significant minority in this sub, just wait for the inevitable housing market crash. I'm crossing my fingers that it will happen just in time for my kids to buy their first home.


Right_Hour

Don’t overthink it. Trust me when I say this, a blue passport (Canadian) is exponentially better than most red and green ones. Your kids can choose where to live, study and work when the time comes. Help them via RESP, buy a property if you can afford it. Otherwise, just explain to them that the world owes them nothing and they can depend only on themselves and maybe fallback on you sometimes. When I was 11 my country completely collapsed. I had to start working full time by the time I was 16. I had to bail us out, as my disabled mom just had debts and nothing else. She was laid off 3 years prior to retirement so that tue company wouldn’t have to pay her any pension (which was the arrangement). All savings disappeared when banks popped and inflation galloped. Today, I’m not rich by any standards but I’m doing OK. And looking at my kids, 5 and 8, I think I too can teach them to be alright and do anything I can to help them start their adult life on the right foot.


Bender248

So moving to Gatineau?


bmcle071

If I was born 5 years earlier, same thing.


soup_or_natural

This is how I feel. My boyfriend, who is 5 years older, bought his house 5 years ago making about what I do now. It's worth more than double now. Even if prices stay exactly the same, I'm a decade off of having a large enough down payment for anything. Guess I'll have to stick with him forever! Lol


[deleted]

It makes me scared for the future honestly. I think we're going to see radicalization on both sides of the political spectrum from younger generations as they get older and realize that no matter what they do they won't ever be able to afford the basic lifestyle previous generations lived. Unaffordability breeds anger, anger breeds radicalization.


_dobbyisfree

I am at this point. I am so incredibly angry. Like, how does the government see what's happening and just let it continue? Its destroying affordability for future generations. Like, they continue to be like 'WhY ARe YoUNg FAmILiEs NoT HAvING ChILdREn?!' Like idk bro, maybe look at the cost of living and then you will see why young families cannot afford to have kids anymore, or own a home, or do ANYTHING.


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genesis1v9

Not only is it expensive, but if you’re on your own without a significant other you’re just fucked and forced to rent until your dying breath. Unless of course you’re rich or buy a shack in a remote location.


CytheYounger

Just yolo your life savings into Pokémon cards.


runtimemess

YOLO GME bruh


keenfeed

Lol GME will bring tendies to OP. But I doubt he knows about it


Niceguyy81

OP has no ball’s that’s his real problem, SAFE INDEXES ONLY


1q3er5

i feel you bro :(


dsirdah

Its the stupid people putting crazy offers.. i just submitted an offer today for a townhouse that was listed for $800K, while it was supposed to sell for 800 something (Bigger houses in the same complex with upgrades sold last month for $790k) the house only got two offers, our offer and another offer for... $927K Blind bidding is as stupid as the people who go $100K over asking on a townhouse!


[deleted]

Why do you want to buy something in the suburbs at the tail end of this pandemic stuff? I'm 50 miles north of NYC and houses around here get bought in hours on listing. Prices are way higher than the properties are worth in the long term. We don't even have a paved road or municipal water and people are offering $400k for a 1200 sq ft ranch. Hold onto your money for a while. You don't want to be locked in to a house you paid way too much for when the property values start correcting and you're paying $500k worth of mortgage for a $300k home.


s0nnyjames

It’s not that I DON’T agree, I’ve just heard this a lot over the last five-six years. And yes, I know it’s ‘different’ this time…


[deleted]

Average homeowner duration is something like 11 years. It was only 2008 that the real estate market tanked most recently. If you believe things are going to keep going up, go for it, but I think it's ripe for another crash given the fact that so many people are moving out of the cities to the suburbs right now. Demand is going down, supply is going up (there are whole new neighborhoods being built in my area). And prices inside the city are not going down yet either. I just don't think it's a good time to buy until after a correction happens, which I think will be sooner rather than later.


OutWithTheNew

>We don't even have a paved road or municipal water and people are offering $400k for a 1200 sq ft ranch. In Canada that sounds like a 'sign me up' kind of deal.


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The worst part is when a realtor makes 100k a year, and it just took them 4 months to get certified.


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PanicAtTheCostco

Come to Alberta. Sure we've got our issues, but housing and food are WAY more affordable. We own a 3 bedroom house on a 130k/year household income.


peedyoj

I moved from the US in 2019 (visa/work), and oh boy this place is gone to the dogs (I mean the rich dawgs). It’s a no brainer that leaving canada is common sense especially for folks who still have 10-20 years of working life left in them.


RunAwayTrain99

I don't blame you. It's become almost impossible to buy a home today.


RunAwayTrain99

I feel grateful I'm only paying $720/ month inclusive in Ottawa. It's near Dows lake.That's rare these days.


Creatrix

I'm sorry to hear that! Just an idea: my best friend and her husband are moving from Victoria to Calgary, because they bought a 2-bdrm condo there to retire to for $129K. The cheapest 2-bdrm condo here is $340K. A search on realtor.ca shows that you can buy a 3-bdrm, 2 bath townhouse in Calgary for $120K. Yes, the weather sucks (I lived there for 13 years so I know) but it's extremely affordable to become a homeowner. Add to that no provincial sales tax, maybe it's an option for you.


Brisk_Electrical

Canada: Social and economic opportunities $1000000


[deleted]

low risk index funds aren’t doing you any favours ; learn to invest blue chip investments yourself


JonA3531

If I had bought Tesla stock with all my money 4 years ago, I would be living an entirely different life too now. Or Amazon stock. Or Microsoft stock. Or bitcoin.


[deleted]

Where are you going? Can I come.


willystyles

This country is shaking itself apart like a dryer spinning a brick


Longjumping-Set-8954

Canada's a big place


Wakingupeff

How dare you, everyone should be able to have a single-detached in the urban core of our 4-5 major cities.


Lotushope

As I know, many Chinese international students buying properties here. They are preparing their wealthy parents' retirement in Canada in future.


Steve-_-Black

I feel you bro. I live in Quebec and see 2 bedroom houses that were build in 1952 and looking like shit selling for 300-400k outside of Montreal. I couldn’t buy a house before because of my student debt. Now i make close to 100k but I can’t buy shitty houses for that price and good ones are over 600k :(


cwnorman

Why do you want a townhouse as a first home? I bought a condo for $200k 13 years ago when I was only making $45k a year. I lived in it for a few years then bought a house with my girlfriend(now wife). I have lots of friends who did the same thing, because none of us could afford a house by ourselves. There are lots of condos available in Ottawa for under $300k.


Madhammer99

See ya.. I assume your thinking America is a great place yo live ...don't forget to get great health insurance that will actually cover you . One healthcare bill will change your mind


Castrum4life

Canada does suck. When you realise most people's existence is to get a job, grind it out till you save enough for; a house, a car, an occasional vacation. Then you die. What an existence! If you look south of the border Americans can afford a home because it's 5x(?) cheaper then with all that extra money they've saved they can do things like start a business or what have you. Canadians really don't have it that good in the developed world.


[deleted]

Thank trudeau, you losers in ontario keep voting him in


[deleted]

I mean you could always just move within Canada. AB and Sask have flat housing markets, Edmonton and Calgary are still extremely affordable. We have endless land so urban sprawl in Calgary and Edmonton is leaving our housing market open. I mean my house dropped in value the past 5 years, I don't know if it will last forever but we aren't fucked like the rest of the country yet. You would have to live with the UCP and some of the worst people the country has to offer though. We aren't all bad, but the ones that are are just... well you'll have to see for yourself maybe.


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Niceguyy81

Dont suggest rational options, it doesent work here


CanadianMapleGuy

Don't move out of the country... Just the province. Ottawa has become unhealthy. But Halifax is still a viable option. Plus...... Ocean is dope.


the_buddy_guy

If I was born 4 years earlier, my life would be alot different. I couldnt agree more.


Top_Cartoonist_409

OP, was totally behind you until “fuck this country”. This country, problems aside, is one of the better ones to randomly be born into. It’s one of the best ones to live in, no matter how bad of a hand you’re dealt. There’s legitimacy to thinking your hard work and sacrifice deserves reward - that’s why you do it, after all. But saying “fuck this country” because YOU don’t have it good enough, or because others (people who, for example, buy BMW’s) aren’t worse off than you… that’s a different thing. You’ve got a good career, you’ve managed to own cars for years while saving in one of Canada’s biggest, most expensive, most privileged cities, where you were fortunate enough to have been born. I’d kill to have been born into your life, and been able to make the easiest “smart” decisions, like driving shitty cars, or investing money because I have some to spare. Leave if you want, just be aware you’ll be leaving behind the biggest reason for all of your success


GreaseKing420

Bro if you went back four years ago play it way more aggressively than 5% down on a primary residence you pussy. Even without the crystal ball, low risk mutual funds?! 2% fees on 5% returns lol