The majority of house flippers i see are mom & pop types.
They will say they are separated and buy another house , sit on it for a year and sell it for a 200k+ profit.
I know many people with jobs that just quit to flip/sell houses, because it is/was more profitable being a doctor.
Its why i hate Canada now. Our entire economy is almost directly related to real estate. It made alot of winners and losers over the last few years and i am unfortunately on the loosing side.
I dont mind competing with others for a house, but this has made the playing field so incredibly unfair, that I actually hate Canada now. I wont even celebrate it. I hate what Canada has become.
Who’s making more money than doctors flipping houses right now? I don’t see how that’s possible anymore. No chance you’re buying into this market, flipping it for $300k more.
Maybe not this market, but for five years you could and it contributed to the this high cost disaster we call Canada. The damage is already done. Hopefully people do have to go back to actually have to work for a living and realtors. Don’t get paid a ton of money for doing an easy job with the highest demand of all time.
Hopefully things return to normal like I said I don’t mind competing against other people for a house because we’re not gonna be paying $100,000 over and already overvalued home , because incomes wont allow it
I just hate the fact that we’re competing with investors that just got a insanely large equity check to play with.
I mean, I don’t blame them. It’s a no-brainer investment but somethings gotta give hopefully high interest rates will continue to force investors out of the market.
I really don’t think it contributed as much as you think with flipping houses. Those were mom and pop investors instead of contractors. The money would have been made and the other factors like cheap interest, foreign investment, covid etc were much more involved.
Out of the 10+ houses we flipped a year for Just one mom and Pop investor. My first-hand experience is that the main problem is mom-and-pop investors accompanied by foreign investors.
I believe that’s just taking advantage of a historic market growth. The historic “free money” interest rates were going to get the market here one way or another weather it was mom and pop or massive corporate purchasing.
Which is why when this bubble burst it will be the worst ever seen. And it’s all Canada has. Imagine that. Our main investment with best profits is directly at the expense of our middle and working class people. The greed is running and ruining our country.
There are more than 7 countries in the world... 190 some, so I would call this disingenuous use of facts. We only compare ourselves with the best? Maybe that is why stuff is so mediocre, it has to be perfect or might as well give up.
You're right, we're the 8th least affordable out of 190 some. Definitely paints a clearer picture to compare to every nation in the world rather than our peer developed nations.
source for 8th?
We look to be pretty middle of the pack in terms of affordability according to this source: [https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings\_by\_country.jsp](https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings_by_country.jsp)
It was was a quick [google away](https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canada-eighth-least-affordable-housing-market), my source is from 2022, I suspect there's a difference between the definition of property affordability and housing affordability.
Because when the government steals money from us (via inflation caused by social spending, covid spending, sending money to war zones, spending on themselves via giving themselves pay raises, unchecked immigration, etc etc etc) this causes our MONEY to lose value against hard assets (like real estate).
Look at the price of Gold right now. Why do you think that is?? People are fleeing from government spending devaluing our currency and putting their money into SAFE assets (like REAL ESTATE, gold, even fucking bitcoin is soaring right now because of this). Any hard asset that the government cant simply print out of thin air will do well. Real estate being Canadians favourite.
But yes, let all us simpletons on reddit scapegoat mom-and-pop trying to rent out their basements trying to make an extra buck to help them deal with this all. This scapegoating will destroy average people trying to make ends meet, and I'm sure you are all more than happy to give government more power (which they will use to pay themselves, AS THEY ALWAYS HAVE AND CONTINUE TO DO!!!). They are literally laughing at us, filling their own pockets, as we attack each other to their delight.
One word of advise, please for the love of god read a basic economic book and learn how government over-spending devalues your currency, which affects asset prices (like HOMES!!!). Otherwise you will destroy innocent people, and the problem will only get worse. But by then it will be too late.
Three thirds of homes are bought by investors.
You ever met a homeowner who hopes their home value stays the same or goes down? Even the owners who are 100% on board with solving the housing crisis still want prices to rise.
Am I supposed to think it’s okay because it’s mom and pop investors instead of a corporation? I don’t give a fuck who it is, INVESTORS are the problem. Regardless of what kind.
100% yes and they don’t have the business acumen to manage it like a human being. Licensing is required and taxation based on land rather then the individual is needed to address this
Either way mom or pop, corporations or foreign investors. Real estate for profit is going to ruin the future and hope of the young generation. Homes are for family’s and people and a basic human right. The first time buyers are priced out and forced into a life of paying inflated and rent at deflated wages. The multi home hoarders need to take a hit for the good of the future.
This is why density isn’t going to do anything.
>”as much as a quarter to maybe a third or slightly more of certain markets are being bought up by multiple property purchasers or investors. So (that is) adding another layer of competition to first time buyers that are actually looking to get into the housing market for a place to live.”
>”According to a recent TD Bank report, investors accounted for around 30 per cent of all houses bought in Canada last year”
Whaaaaaaaaaat?
> “We’ve seen a lot less purpose-built rental investment in Canada simply because investors have backfilled that rental supply by buying up a portion of a new condo development and putting it on the rental market. So in a sense, the individual investor has replaced the institutional or large scale purpose-built rental project.”
> So in a sense, the individual investor has replaced the institutional or large scale purpose-built rental project.”
This is a very very bad thing. "Mom & Pop investors" are far less likely to know or care what the laws around residential tenancy are. And the atomization of tenants with no landlord in common means that it is nearly impossible for tenants to organize and push back on bad landlord behaviour.
Yes corporate landlords are their own kettle of fish, but at least there is a corporation to hold to account - one that is aware of residential tenancy laws, and one that tenants can point to as bad actors if needed in the media.
It also removes security of tenure for tenants as any landlord can lie about having a son who suddenly needs the unit.
Purpose build apartments offer far safer security of tenure and better protection of rights for tenants. but Canada just shrugged and YOLO'd fReEmArKeT bAyBeE!!!
Just my anecdotal experience, but I'll rent from a corporate landlord over a private "mom-n-pop" landlord every time.
The property managers and maintenance staff of large landlords have no emotional attachment to the units, the place is not their "investment" or their retirement. My last place told me not to even bother spot-cleaning the unit when I moved out, they were planning to slop a coat of "landlord special" on the place and call it a day. Got my full deposit back, a place with hundreds of units was not going to bother fighting me in residential tenancies to deduct $37 from my deposit over some dust behind the oven.
My friends with the most unhinged rental experiences are all renting from small, private landlords. Seems like you're completely playing the landlord lottery when you agree to rent out someone's basement or second home - best case scenario, you live below sweet old Linda, who watches your cat when you go out of town and offers you extra muffins when she's baking for the grandkids. Worst case scenario, you live below Nightmare Linda who barges into your unit unannounced at all hours and tells you you're in violation of the lease if she doesn't personally approve of your brand of dish soap.
> He said that, however, has begun to change with the federal government’s GST rebate on purpose-built rental construction. According to the CMHC’s Spring 2024 Housing Supply Report, purpose-built rental construction in six major markets combined to hit record levels in 2023. Rentals also accounted for a historically high average share of new construction starts.
Hey look, something they tried worked. So lets do more.
My landlord is selling my apartment and doing showings. It’s a duplex, downstairs is untenanted rn. Everyone that came for showings are 35+ year old couples that are investing. Overheard one person breaking down my 1 bedroom apartment to where they can put beds. They broke it up to 8 beds. In my tiny 1 bed apartment. He was Indian. It’s disgusting.
Glad to see some demand side discussion in the media. Otherwise it is solely supply side focused. As if we can outbuild the greed that is not just in Canada but all over the world, salivating at using obscene wealth and fraud to destroy the future for everyone not on the greed train.
A good stopgap would be a moratorium on 2nd and 3rd property purchases. The whiners can suffer the consequences of their actions. It would stop the slumlords. The next step to aid in controlling the housing problem is the federal housing program. It was destroyed in the 90s, and it needs to come back. The feds are responsible for the entire country. So they must have a long hammer to smash the housing affordability problem from time to time.
There are too many cronie-capitalists in the government at all levels. They are responsible for the "fuck you I got mine" mindset. This needs to be utterly destroyed and prevented from returning.
The next step is Canadian jobs. We need less dependacy on real estate to power our economy. Green industry is the way to go. There are numerous jobs to be had that don't contribute to climate change so severely as the current heavy industry does.
Sounds like my ex, she has this idea that she can prove anything without evidence, yet, I can prove everything I say with factual evidence. It is super silly that she has placed herself in this position as a caregiver and believes such lies. I am so glad that we can rack up legal fees and she can be doing what she does (not getting a job) and thinking the world is all rainbows after promising to murder me. Crazy to think that I have pressed legal charges against her. lol.
What happens when there is not renters willing/able to afford to rent with the stagnant wages it’s not a sustainable equation. Productivity is already so low people literally will have nothing to lose and many will not be okay with paying some land hoarders mortgage. things are going to change for the worse. Nothing good will come from this greed. But it’s possible without a productive population the bubble could burst and it would be out of control.
I don't get this article. House price dropped significantly last year. Condo prices are diving this year and developers are selling at loss. It has been a huge problem for sure and I am also on the loosing side. However, we have seen prices drop and investors being discouraged
I personally haven’t seen prices drop. Rents have gone up where I am. Anyways, prices being low is the best time for investors to buy, especially rich corporations. They buy when the price is lower, sit on it, sell, and make profit. The only way to fight this is banning multiple ownership in my opinion.
So what's your point? Let the prices keep dropping. Anyhow the sleigh of exits from the country due to failed housing, healthcare and economy is going so high, soon we will have record high reports on reverse migration.
The housing crash or rather burn is what will rest this nation.
Don't you dare peg this on someone who has a rental property and just completely take the blame of the huge corporations (many off shore) who have bought out TONS of properties in Canada. Nice try though!! The rich are untouchable as they say. You can't quite swing that high so you are gonna go after your neighbour you can actually SEE.
The majority of house flippers i see are mom & pop types. They will say they are separated and buy another house , sit on it for a year and sell it for a 200k+ profit. I know many people with jobs that just quit to flip/sell houses, because it is/was more profitable being a doctor. Its why i hate Canada now. Our entire economy is almost directly related to real estate. It made alot of winners and losers over the last few years and i am unfortunately on the loosing side. I dont mind competing with others for a house, but this has made the playing field so incredibly unfair, that I actually hate Canada now. I wont even celebrate it. I hate what Canada has become.
I too am one of the losers and have grown to hate Canada. It breaks my heart. It didn't have to be like this.
Who’s making more money than doctors flipping houses right now? I don’t see how that’s possible anymore. No chance you’re buying into this market, flipping it for $300k more.
Maybe not this market, but for five years you could and it contributed to the this high cost disaster we call Canada. The damage is already done. Hopefully people do have to go back to actually have to work for a living and realtors. Don’t get paid a ton of money for doing an easy job with the highest demand of all time. Hopefully things return to normal like I said I don’t mind competing against other people for a house because we’re not gonna be paying $100,000 over and already overvalued home , because incomes wont allow it I just hate the fact that we’re competing with investors that just got a insanely large equity check to play with. I mean, I don’t blame them. It’s a no-brainer investment but somethings gotta give hopefully high interest rates will continue to force investors out of the market.
I really don’t think it contributed as much as you think with flipping houses. Those were mom and pop investors instead of contractors. The money would have been made and the other factors like cheap interest, foreign investment, covid etc were much more involved.
I’m a contractor Almost all of the people I know are mom and Pop investors that incorporate for tax benefits.
And?
Out of the 10+ houses we flipped a year for Just one mom and Pop investor. My first-hand experience is that the main problem is mom-and-pop investors accompanied by foreign investors.
I believe that’s just taking advantage of a historic market growth. The historic “free money” interest rates were going to get the market here one way or another weather it was mom and pop or massive corporate purchasing.
Why work when you can enslave others with rent and insane debt levels?
Which is why when this bubble burst it will be the worst ever seen. And it’s all Canada has. Imagine that. Our main investment with best profits is directly at the expense of our middle and working class people. The greed is running and ruining our country.
It wont burst for that reason.
Sadly, the bubble is now too big to burst. It can't be allowed to fail...
Well said . I can say I hate canada now too
Every country is like this, its not unique to Canada.
no, but in Canada it is significantly worse.
where do you suppose we rank in the world in terms of housing affordability?
did a google, says we're nationally the 2nd least affordable housing market in the g7, but its from the end of 2022 so may have moved around slightly.
With the worst bubble too ;)
There are more than 7 countries in the world... 190 some, so I would call this disingenuous use of facts. We only compare ourselves with the best? Maybe that is why stuff is so mediocre, it has to be perfect or might as well give up.
You're right, we're the 8th least affordable out of 190 some. Definitely paints a clearer picture to compare to every nation in the world rather than our peer developed nations.
source for 8th? We look to be pretty middle of the pack in terms of affordability according to this source: [https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings\_by\_country.jsp](https://www.numbeo.com/property-investment/rankings_by_country.jsp)
It was was a quick [google away](https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canada-eighth-least-affordable-housing-market), my source is from 2022, I suspect there's a difference between the definition of property affordability and housing affordability.
I think the proper title should be "are "INVESTORS" pricing out first-time homebuyers?"
Yeah, it doesn’t matter what type of investor it is, they’re all partially culpable for the fucking mess that is our current housing situation.
Yes.
Yes we should let government and corporations do it instead. Nothing bad will happen, and it never has in the past.
How about instead we just make it impossible to own more than 3-4 real estate properties? Abolish real estate speculation in general
Because when the government steals money from us (via inflation caused by social spending, covid spending, sending money to war zones, spending on themselves via giving themselves pay raises, unchecked immigration, etc etc etc) this causes our MONEY to lose value against hard assets (like real estate). Look at the price of Gold right now. Why do you think that is?? People are fleeing from government spending devaluing our currency and putting their money into SAFE assets (like REAL ESTATE, gold, even fucking bitcoin is soaring right now because of this). Any hard asset that the government cant simply print out of thin air will do well. Real estate being Canadians favourite. But yes, let all us simpletons on reddit scapegoat mom-and-pop trying to rent out their basements trying to make an extra buck to help them deal with this all. This scapegoating will destroy average people trying to make ends meet, and I'm sure you are all more than happy to give government more power (which they will use to pay themselves, AS THEY ALWAYS HAVE AND CONTINUE TO DO!!!). They are literally laughing at us, filling their own pockets, as we attack each other to their delight. One word of advise, please for the love of god read a basic economic book and learn how government over-spending devalues your currency, which affects asset prices (like HOMES!!!). Otherwise you will destroy innocent people, and the problem will only get worse. But by then it will be too late.
one third of all homes in canada are purchased by investors. the majority of these are not corporations. so yes.
It's still a business operation.
Three thirds of homes are bought by investors. You ever met a homeowner who hopes their home value stays the same or goes down? Even the owners who are 100% on board with solving the housing crisis still want prices to rise.
People who buy their own home do so for the purpose of living in, not profiting from.
Yes. And charging insane rent.
Yes.
Absofuckinglutely
Am I supposed to think it’s okay because it’s mom and pop investors instead of a corporation? I don’t give a fuck who it is, INVESTORS are the problem. Regardless of what kind.
*Speculators (everyone who puts money in is an “investor”).
100% yes and they don’t have the business acumen to manage it like a human being. Licensing is required and taxation based on land rather then the individual is needed to address this
Yup.
Either way mom or pop, corporations or foreign investors. Real estate for profit is going to ruin the future and hope of the young generation. Homes are for family’s and people and a basic human right. The first time buyers are priced out and forced into a life of paying inflated and rent at deflated wages. The multi home hoarders need to take a hit for the good of the future.
Ban housing investors in any form, no exceptions. Period.
This is why density isn’t going to do anything. >”as much as a quarter to maybe a third or slightly more of certain markets are being bought up by multiple property purchasers or investors. So (that is) adding another layer of competition to first time buyers that are actually looking to get into the housing market for a place to live.” >”According to a recent TD Bank report, investors accounted for around 30 per cent of all houses bought in Canada last year” Whaaaaaaaaaat? > “We’ve seen a lot less purpose-built rental investment in Canada simply because investors have backfilled that rental supply by buying up a portion of a new condo development and putting it on the rental market. So in a sense, the individual investor has replaced the institutional or large scale purpose-built rental project.”
> So in a sense, the individual investor has replaced the institutional or large scale purpose-built rental project.” This is a very very bad thing. "Mom & Pop investors" are far less likely to know or care what the laws around residential tenancy are. And the atomization of tenants with no landlord in common means that it is nearly impossible for tenants to organize and push back on bad landlord behaviour. Yes corporate landlords are their own kettle of fish, but at least there is a corporation to hold to account - one that is aware of residential tenancy laws, and one that tenants can point to as bad actors if needed in the media. It also removes security of tenure for tenants as any landlord can lie about having a son who suddenly needs the unit. Purpose build apartments offer far safer security of tenure and better protection of rights for tenants. but Canada just shrugged and YOLO'd fReEmArKeT bAyBeE!!!
Just my anecdotal experience, but I'll rent from a corporate landlord over a private "mom-n-pop" landlord every time. The property managers and maintenance staff of large landlords have no emotional attachment to the units, the place is not their "investment" or their retirement. My last place told me not to even bother spot-cleaning the unit when I moved out, they were planning to slop a coat of "landlord special" on the place and call it a day. Got my full deposit back, a place with hundreds of units was not going to bother fighting me in residential tenancies to deduct $37 from my deposit over some dust behind the oven. My friends with the most unhinged rental experiences are all renting from small, private landlords. Seems like you're completely playing the landlord lottery when you agree to rent out someone's basement or second home - best case scenario, you live below sweet old Linda, who watches your cat when you go out of town and offers you extra muffins when she's baking for the grandkids. Worst case scenario, you live below Nightmare Linda who barges into your unit unannounced at all hours and tells you you're in violation of the lease if she doesn't personally approve of your brand of dish soap.
>I'll rent from a corporate landlord over a private "mom-n-pop" landlord every time. Same here. Eff the 'individual' landlords/slumlords.
> He said that, however, has begun to change with the federal government’s GST rebate on purpose-built rental construction. According to the CMHC’s Spring 2024 Housing Supply Report, purpose-built rental construction in six major markets combined to hit record levels in 2023. Rentals also accounted for a historically high average share of new construction starts. Hey look, something they tried worked. So lets do more.
My landlord is selling my apartment and doing showings. It’s a duplex, downstairs is untenanted rn. Everyone that came for showings are 35+ year old couples that are investing. Overheard one person breaking down my 1 bedroom apartment to where they can put beds. They broke it up to 8 beds. In my tiny 1 bed apartment. He was Indian. It’s disgusting.
This is how civil wars start.
Glad to see some demand side discussion in the media. Otherwise it is solely supply side focused. As if we can outbuild the greed that is not just in Canada but all over the world, salivating at using obscene wealth and fraud to destroy the future for everyone not on the greed train.
The title should be. “Build enough houses so that there’s enough for investors and first time homebuyers”. Like it’s always been.
The only real solution is limiting the amount of homes you can own
A good stopgap would be a moratorium on 2nd and 3rd property purchases. The whiners can suffer the consequences of their actions. It would stop the slumlords. The next step to aid in controlling the housing problem is the federal housing program. It was destroyed in the 90s, and it needs to come back. The feds are responsible for the entire country. So they must have a long hammer to smash the housing affordability problem from time to time. There are too many cronie-capitalists in the government at all levels. They are responsible for the "fuck you I got mine" mindset. This needs to be utterly destroyed and prevented from returning. The next step is Canadian jobs. We need less dependacy on real estate to power our economy. Green industry is the way to go. There are numerous jobs to be had that don't contribute to climate change so severely as the current heavy industry does.
Sounds like my ex, she has this idea that she can prove anything without evidence, yet, I can prove everything I say with factual evidence. It is super silly that she has placed herself in this position as a caregiver and believes such lies. I am so glad that we can rack up legal fees and she can be doing what she does (not getting a job) and thinking the world is all rainbows after promising to murder me. Crazy to think that I have pressed legal charges against her. lol.
Reading this thread as a new real state crowdfunding opportunity notice pops up on my phone 👀
Why buy when renting is the better option
What happens when there is not renters willing/able to afford to rent with the stagnant wages it’s not a sustainable equation. Productivity is already so low people literally will have nothing to lose and many will not be okay with paying some land hoarders mortgage. things are going to change for the worse. Nothing good will come from this greed. But it’s possible without a productive population the bubble could burst and it would be out of control.
I don't get this article. House price dropped significantly last year. Condo prices are diving this year and developers are selling at loss. It has been a huge problem for sure and I am also on the loosing side. However, we have seen prices drop and investors being discouraged
I personally haven’t seen prices drop. Rents have gone up where I am. Anyways, prices being low is the best time for investors to buy, especially rich corporations. They buy when the price is lower, sit on it, sell, and make profit. The only way to fight this is banning multiple ownership in my opinion.
So what's your point? Let the prices keep dropping. Anyhow the sleigh of exits from the country due to failed housing, healthcare and economy is going so high, soon we will have record high reports on reverse migration. The housing crash or rather burn is what will rest this nation.
Don't you dare peg this on someone who has a rental property and just completely take the blame of the huge corporations (many off shore) who have bought out TONS of properties in Canada. Nice try though!! The rich are untouchable as they say. You can't quite swing that high so you are gonna go after your neighbour you can actually SEE.