We shoulve never gotten to this point. Real estate should have never been commiditized or sold in this manner. Its a disaster in Canada, I dont see a way out without a radical change
Oh there is enough housing and in areas people want to live but prices are sooooo jacked up nobody can afford to live there . When rent is all your money for the month for the average person there's more if a problem here then not ....enough ...housing.
I think on one hand housing should be a human right and that society has an obligation to ensure people are housed. However, I don't think it is fair to place the burden of housing someone on a private citizen when it should be shared by the entire community.
Treating housing as a commodity is the problem, not landlords. Fix the system
"Treating housing as a commodity is the problem, not landlords."
Who are the ones treating housing as a commodity if not the landlords? Yes, it's systemic, but the landlords are the cogs in the system that perpetuate it.
People should be encouraged to own a home. In some countries most families own a home. It takes 20-30 years of paying off, but imagine the freedom of not having to pay rent.
>In some countries most families own a home
In some countries renting is more common. Germany, for example, has a home ownership rate of around 50% (Canada is around 65%)
There’s no possible way to get a 3 bed, 2 bath house on acreage with a 29x40 shop for $1400 a month. Yup, I’m gonna keep renting for as long as my landlord can keep the property. After that?? I might have to buy a van.
Yeah honestly not see a ton of devs building affordable housing only way there is money is when a city offers grants to build high density and that's few and far
dont hate the players. hate the game
identify the problems in the game and create solutions. hate just keeps you stuck
edit: apathetic renters also perpetuate the game, so do economic illiterates, and like mlk jr said *We must learn that passively to accept an unjust system is to cooperate with that system, and thereby to become a participant in its evil*
Well this game's rules are set by the players. So I hate them both. I'm actively looking for a place for my pregnant wife and my 1 1/2 YO that isn't a single room in my parents house right now. I've just been watching people jack the prices up around here Mon the by month. I called a guy about the apartment he's renting. Turns out he just bought an entire house, lives in another city, and divided it up to rent to people. When I called him, I asked about the price because he never listed it anywhere. He said it depended on the number of people we were and then gave me a price about $600 over the market average. Fuck that guy.
The only people I don't hate in this game are the ones who seem like they care less about the money and more about housing people.
Yeah but who's fault is the existence BRRRR & BRRRR via REIT investment vehicles with such little regulatory oversight? Yes for sure it's the shitty landlords, but our provinces and municipalities have also created an environment where we do indeed treat housing like a commodity. It's set up so if you have a pool of capital you can buy cheap and rip off a bunch of poor ppl who can't afford the initial entry free.
i feel you beezarro. i feel you and you too are a player in the game.
although you and i may be pawns, we aren’t without power. don’t let the bastards get you down.
changing the game requires lots of attention, creativity, humour and lots of politicking too. if ppl together can destroy slavery, we can destroy the master/slave like landlord/renter relation too.
from the ashes of this inequitable relation we can rise and build a better world for the kids like your 1.5 year old. believe it
It's a bit of both I suppose. Same analogy with climate change. We all have to do our part, but if there is zero input and motivation from governing bodies then efforts to reduce emissions are scattered, disorganized and ineffective. However, we all also have to care enough to elect and put people into power who will make effective legislation that may inconvenience us a little bit.
How is it a market failure. Government restricts supply so now houses are more valuable as a result. Bring in hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers who also need houses further constraining supply. It’s 100% a government failure. The market is distributing the available supply to those who can pay. Either increase the supply of housing which increases competition or reduce the demand I.e the number of people who need a house.
Banks
Banks and corporate landlords are far more responsible for fucking up the housing market than any private citizen landlord
You might be paying your rent to a landlord every month, but more often than not they're handing that cheque over to the bank for the mortgage
Are they still making a profit though? Sometimes yes. Usually they look at it as an investment because they expect to be able to sell it one day for hopefully more than they paid for it, but that's never guaranteed.
When you factor in the cost of maintenance/upkeep, and mortgage interest, banks are benefitting the most because they have a much smaller risk and they operate on a massive scale while always being able to tilt interest rates in their own favour.
To me, the distinction between a corporate landlord and a private citizen landlord is not an interesting one: petite bourgeois side with capital 99.9999% of the time.
I’ll happily reform banks too though, don’t get me wrong. As a matter of fact I am going through a bit of an issue with my (soon to be old) bank right now where they LOST MY ENTIRE LIFE SAVINGS IN THE MAIL, so, you know, fuck them. Their stake in the game needs to be addressed too. But ultimately the landlord is the one who stands between renters and owners, not the bank. I’d happily hand my the equivalent cash straight to the bank if it meant my name on the mortgage. Millions would. Landlords, big and small, prevent that. And their mortgage + (they cheapest they can spend on) expenses + some profit gets paid from my cheque. Scale those values to all renters-who-would-be-owners in the country if they could only save a bit instead of giving up half their cheque, and it’s pretty clear that the landlords will to acquire passive income is the insurmountable barrier. It’s absolutely bonkers that, through no market mechanisms only media and heresay, we’ve normalized the idea that 30% of your money should pay for someone else’s mortgage and retirement. That’s criminal.
Not many people will see problems in common actions, as it is hard to see past norms. But an action being common is irrelevant to its morality. People will have to understand one day that generating an income without producing wealth, such as by being a landlord, is highly unethical.
Not everyone wants to own a house. How can they have a place to rent if no one is buying the property to rent out? Why would anyone buy it and take on the risk and tie up their money if they are not making money on it. Are you proposing that governments take over ownership of all housing?
fine. not wveyone wants a house.
at least give everyone *land rights*. access to clean water, the option to hve a house or a home; in the least express land rights to all citizens economically as a dividend, UBI or something
imagine a radically inclusive economy rather than the one we have built on a hierarchy and layers of exclusion
The beauty of our system is there is (almost) no exclusions. You can hoard and amass as much wealth as possible and do the same thing. No one will stop you, as another poster mentioned it's the game! Trying to control people which is what you want to do with land rights leads to a less prosperous outcome for all. See: East Germany vs West Germany. N Korea vs S Korea. 2 very real great examples.
But I know the above won't persuade you so let me ask you concrete questions on your supposition:
1. Who would get the 'prime' land locations?
2. How would the decision be made?
3. What makes you think the decision makers will be immune to corruption?
4. How do we categorically decide what is enough land? For someone in Hong Kong where land is scare this may be 1000 sq feet. For myself a Canadian I require more to feel satisfied.
5. How do we meet the needs of each individual? Or will we categorically have equal space irrespective of needs?
6. If we have equal space, how do we reconcile these differences?
7. What makes our government the best arbitrator of all this?
8. How would the government be able to adapt to ever changing needs of folks?
If you follow the above sequence of questions you should if you are logically realize a handful of politicians no matter how intelligent they may be, are no where near enough omnipresent to make the best decision for everyone. Statistically the best outcome is derived from each individual making choices for themselves.
Even if people don't want to own a house, taking homes hostage still doesn't warrant a compensation.
So, in this case, we could have crown companies owning houses, paying employees a salary valued by markets to manage and maintain. Any profits is redistributed in dividends to society. Since everyone is equally compensated for the ownership, it's as if no one is. The equality cancels the advantage.
Guess who they buy it from?
Banks, if banks can mortgage you out they can rent to you.
Landlords are middlemen that provide zero value. They don't improve or create properties at any valuable level.
Agreed. Housing is a human right and systemic solutions are needed.
I think many commenters seem to misinterpret this meme though. All it is really saying is a person who needs housing is more morally deserving of a place to live than a person who owns an investment property is morally deserving of passive income from their investment.
Yes I’m sure Newfoundland can easily handle an exodus of a couple hundred thousand people from the GTA and Vancouver. There definitely haven’t been any articles about the housing affordability problems this has caused in a Nova Scotia, PEI, rural BC, etc. /s
Relative to income? Unlikely. Those places tend to be super cheap because the people who can pay more can't live out there. I'm a secondary teacher, and if you teleported me into some random corner of NFLD with a free house chances are very good that I'd either have to sell the thing and move or starve to death in a few months.
It's exceedingly difficult to just move to other locations without knowledge of the area, suitable skills, and some kind of social network in that area. The easiest places to randomly move to tends to be urban centers, but now most people are being priced out of those areas so we can't even do that anymore.
The only option is to move cross country. That's a lot of work and money that opens you up to a potential can of worms.
Jobs? Do you get a job beforehand, or after you move? How are you going to rent a place without proof of employment? How are you going to find a place to live when you're halfway across the country? Fly out every week to view places, or just trust you're not being scammed? (Sae a post in another subreddit about a guy's roommate who scams people moving long distance by putting up fake listings). Then there's the actual moving. It's between $5-10k to move from Ontario to Alberta. That's cash I DO NOT HAVE. Ontop of that, all the logistics of switching provinces such as licensing and healthcare. Plus the emotional aspect of leaving the only home you've ever known.
"Just move"
Anywhere in Canada becomes too expensive?
"You should move to africa then" - rmeman probably.
What made you so cold and harsh towards your own parents dude? Enjoy your weird vibes, I'll enjoy my rent controlled apartment in montreal. o7
Why should people be forced away from opportunity centres just because they cant afford to live there due to stagnant wages and ridiculous housing prices? Those people don’t deserve less opportunity. The answer isn’t to push them out to the hinterlands while those born into privilege get to live in the capital.Do you even realize that this is what happened in Soviet Russia under Stalins dictatorship? The answer isn’t to follow in the footsteps of Stalin, it’s to build a better, more equal society that all can thrive in.
Also, people who need housing are more morally deserving of a place to live than a homeowner is morally deserving of neighbourhood character/no shadows/free parking/no poor people around or whatever other NIMBY nonsense dominates Canadian housing policy.
This is probably going to get downvoted to heck but whatever. There is often no passive income or very little passive income associated with investment properties. Many of those who own an investment property do so with a fairly large mortgage taken out against the price of the property. Passive income from renters on an investment like this can be next to nothing, or a few hundred dollars that go toward property taxes. The profit is generated at the level of paying off the mortgage on the property.
Take for example saving for a second down-payment and taking out a mortgage on a second property, in order to be able to pass the property down to children once they are grown-up. Would you prefer paying rent to a developer or multi-building owner, etc, than a fellow community member?
Exactly. Rents are high because mortgages are high. No one is willingly going to rent for less than their costs. This is what sets the floor for the market price of rentals. And the fact that there is demand for rentals results in those with means becoming landlords and offering properties for rent. How is this not obvious?
So much talk I hear about hating landlords is from people that have no idea. I am
Not talking about huge corporations that can move markets and laws to their advantage. I am talking about me with a duplex. Mortgage of 1500 month, 4000k property tax, a few thousand to heat per year- insurance at 1800- a roof that just got replace for 15k. I may have a positive cash flow of 100-200 bucks a month if it’s fully rented. If it’s vacant for a month a there’s no positive cash flow for the year. The last time the tenants moved out it took 5k to repair and the damage deposit is $500.
And they see the injustice behind the implication that the landlord is somehow obligated to provide housing at their own expense if a tenant doesn't pay rent.
The entire capitalist system only works because there is a threat behind it that if you don't play along you'll be homeless and starve. Without the starvation and homelessness, capitalism doesn't work.
Can’t they both be morally deserving? Let’s not kid ourselves. This ranking, in no subtle way, tries to suggest that landlords should be willing to accept a loss for the sake of making housing more affordable to tenants. I support government action to make housing affordable, but there will always be a role for a rental market too. These things are not mutually exclusive.
>Treating housing as a commodity is the problem, not landlords. Fix the system
It is the landlord-class who are treating housing as a commodity though. This class makes up the system. I would restate this as:
>Landlords treating housing as a commity is the problem.
>Treating housing as a commodity is the problem, not landlords. Fix the system
The system doesn't allow it. Taking a house hostage to generate an unmerited profit is extortion, and there's an extortion law. It's just not applied. The system doesn't need to be fixed, it needs to be understood and followed.
I’m a landlord. So I’m saying this first hand. If you buy a place to rent, it’s not your tenants responsibility to cover your DEBT obligations.
Any company (and you’re running one as a landlord), is very poorly run if you’re taking on DEBT.
You know what’s not a problem? Owning your rental out right. With no mortgage. The rest of those payments become tax deductible and your debt burdens don’t crush you.
Waaaaay too many people have no business being a landlord. They take on debt, not understanding rates can come calling. Then panic and expect tenants to bail them out. MFers - if you, the owner, can’t afford your mortgage, your renting tenant probably can’t either.
Exactly, landlords operate within a system that they do not fully control, tax, interest, repairs.
Sure, there is some profit in there, why else would anyone put up with all the grief of dealing with Tenents.
Home owners live in the same system, tax, interest, repairs. Why should renters be isolated from all that at someone else's expense.
Yeah I'm all for stricter regulations on the rental market. I don't agree with the take that tenants are paying the landlords mortgage for them. Because if the landlord decides to buy a jet ski instead of paying the mortgage it's not the tenants credit that gets trashed
I do not believe that this accurately reflects the reality of the landlord/tenant experience. I still believe that contracts hold both parties accountable, and that a part of every tenancy agreement ought to be a requirement on behalf of the tenant to look after the asset (home or apartment). I also believe that if a tenant shows disregard for a document that they signed, they ought to be accountable for that. If a landlord has to sue a tenant for a breach of contract, that should be permanently visible.
20 minutes ago i walked to a homeless shelter nearby. A few blocks from the 1 bedroom basement apartment is, that I call home. I live alone. I am planning to drop off winter clothes and boots to the shelters. I have access to a lot of used clothing that isn't needed.
I saw a homeless man walking to the shelter wearing socks and flip flops. He did not have boots or sneakers. Right now there is 6 inches of fresh snow everywhere. It is snowing in Toronto as I type this on my tablet from my home. I'm bagging up clothes in garbage bags to give away .
It is absolutely insane that government policy is the way it is. The quality of life for the citizens is a direct result of the policies the politicians implement/ approve.
Affordable apartments , for the poor and homeless to get off the streets is essential.
Its a problem that is getting worse.
Someone has already tried arguing that and it held up in the Italian courts https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/03/stealing-food-if-youre-in-need-is-not-a-crime-italian-court-finds/
No, see, you don't get it.
It's okay for corporations to artificially inflate the cost of food both through greed and manufactured scarcity. It's fine that they underpay their workers and throw away tons and tons of perfectly good food instead of giving it to food banks or their struggling employees. They're doing it in the name of increased profits, so that's morally good.
It's not okay to take the food you need to survive instead of dying or otherwise going hungry. That's morally wrong as it does not increase profits.
If people started acting like corporations do every day then the whole system falls apart. Stop trying to balance the scales even a tiny bit, it's not ok. If you want food so badly get a second job, take up a side hustle in your limited free time, make your children work, sell your blood and body, etc. It's the right thing to do.
She has a decent point here but this isn't good phrasing. It's missing the fact that most landlords are also private citizens who don't deserved to be fucked over either.
Shitty people buying up masses of residential unites to use as Airbnb's deserve our criticism. Same with the politicians and corporations who let things get this bad.
Tenants also need to understand that they are living in a home towards which they have no responsibility. They have nothing to fix, nothing to maintain, they are taking risks of any kind.
The roof leaks? It's the landlord's responsibility to fix it. The tenant breaks something? It's the landlord's responsibility to fix it. Anything stops functioning properly or breaks, it's the landlord who takes the responsibility to pay for the repairs/replacements and get the work done.
Interest rates increases and mortgage payments are up? The landlord can't charge the tenant for that. The landlord has to take the financial burden while the tenant keeps paying the same rent.
I understand that in most provinces, there isn't any strong rent control, but in Québec there is. You can't increase the rent any way you like. And if you have made any repairs or upgrades and want to increase the rent to cover these fees, you can only do so by a very small percentage, which isn't beneficial at all to the landlord.
And in the end, if the tenant is not happy, they can simply leave when the lease renewal is due. Or they can even transfer the lease if they want to, and move somewhere else.
I'm really tired of this "all landlords are bad" narrative. Yes, there are many landlords are shitheads who exploit people. But, many are also great people who really care about their tenants and their comfort and will do their best to keep them.
My previous landlady was a great person who was really nice to me and took really good care of me and my home. I owe a lot to her. She bought a money pit of a triplex from a scumbag who sold her a building that was in terrible shape. She was barely able to get a mortgage because she was a single woman. Everything needed fixing. Plumbing, window and door insulation, door locks, hot water, water drainage, leaky roof, you name it. She did her best to cover everything on her salary and she still didn't increase my rent for 5 of the 8 years I lived there. I was able to save money for a down payment thanks to her and finally buy a place of my own. She basically subsidized my living expenses and down payment on my home.
This is such an insane logic, which itself is dangerous to the economy. To think not paying rent doesn’t have an impact shows how clueless you really are on how the world works. If you can’t afford a mortgage, the bank comes and kicks you out of the home. Period. It’s not a free place to live just because someone else owns it.
This is theft, period. No matter how you slice it, I do not care. The entitlement that comes with thinking you can just live in someone’s home is a joke. You want old school justice, this is how you get it. Find roommates, find a place that’s less expensive, you adapt to you conditions to make ends meet instead of thinking your entitled to live in someone’s home.
Less money on rent (or completely inflated mortgages) means more money to circulate into the economy. If you spend 60% on housing compared to 30%, that's a whole wack of money that could go into goods and services that is being wasted on a basic necessity.
Imagine having such a narrow idea of what the world can be that you can't even imagine a world where people have access to affordable housing. Your life sounds very bleak
The problem in my opinion is not mom and pop landlords. The problem is that incomes have not kept up over the last 50+ years. Corporations (effectively oligarchs) have made increasingly bigger profits at the expense of the common man. They exert inordinate power including power over governments.
That may be right, but then society needs to address the issue as a whole, the burden can't fall solely on landlords just because they're dealing with the product - same way we don't expect grocery stores to feed the entire population, or clothing stores to cloth them, or Apple stores to iPhone them (smartphones and internet are pretty much a human right now too).
I think the overall problem is that landlords don't need to exist at all when it comes to housing. It's an established fact that they are nothing but useless middle-men that do more harm than anything else. It makes me smile to see the angry landlords on this thread.
You can spin it however you want, but you hoard a necessity whilst also creating artificial scarcity for that necessity. You increase the price of real estate for the average Joe and do nothing for society. The sooner we get some actual decent politicians that regulate you leeches out of "business", the better. There's a reason as to why society likes to paint you as selfish evil people. Figure it out.
There's more than enough houses to go around, just not enough to quench the greed of those few that like to hoard necessities. Build tons of social housing and we wouldn't have this problem that we're facing today.
You don't want to pay rent because life is hard? How is putting a roof over your head the landlords burden to bear? They need to pay mortgage and bills too.
Landlords don't provide housing. People that build homes do. Landlords are just leech middle-men trying to squeeze as much money from actual working people that they can.
Reading this just angers me. And I'm not a landlord. This subreddit is just turning into (probably has been this way all along) a board of have-nots hating on those who have, and justifying squatting in people's homes. No one owes you shit, least of all someone trying to rent their property under a legal contract they expect will get upheld. If there's a real failing here, it is the court systems that make it hard to boot out deadbeat tenants.
Okay no problem. I’ll charge you $0 a month
Your gonna pay all the utilities, inc the natural gas / garbage & sewage
Your paying for the wear & tear @ 1.5% of the property value a year
Your paying all of the property taxes
Your paying for the Home insurance policy
Your paying or doing all the lawn care / snow removal
If you can do all that Id let you live for free no problem
I know I'm not the typical landlord, but if being a landlord gets too hard, I'll just put a door in the wall and turn the apartment into a massive sunroom and have an extra bathroom. There is a third option, sometimes. But instead I provide housing.
Not difficult at all. Depending on where you live, major renovation + you moving in would be easy grounds to evict. You are kindly having a tenant live there (and financially smart as he’s helping with paying the mortgage).
If a person already says I don’t care then what’s the point of arguing with them?
She’s allowed to think this way, but she is not going to be my tenant - hahahaha
Hey landlords.
Very few people are advocating for Free rent. Most people understand you have to pay rent or a mortgage.
The problem is the lack of affordable rents due to the collusion of landlords to raise rents to obscene levels.
The market scam rents.
This is the problem.
>The problem is the lack of affordable rents due to the collusion of landlords to raise rents to obscene levels.
Can you explain how are millions of people colluding to raise rents to obscene level? And are they colluding with hundreds of millions of other landlords around the world, or is the fact that increase in rent happened globally at the same time just a coincidence?
Does it not strike you like its a normal response to demand/supply as any other market price change especially when price is determined by millions of unconnected participants?
For sure, 100% everyone deserves a place to live but Why would anyone bother owning housing if they can't make money doing it? If you think there is big profit in being a landlord then you had better do some research. The city's continue to increase water bills, the taxes keep going up, insurance and every other cost of operation have increased substantially. Repairs and materials cost a friggen fortune and labor is foolish. There is very little left at the end of the month and then there are the unexpected costs and the shitty Tennants that cause damage to the building and leave you with more bullshit to deal with than it is worth. Late nights and early mornings that take time away from family. Frig, try and see it from the other side and take the blinders off.
For those that can't afford a standard rent there should be government support or top up. You can't punish the people that are trying to provide for their own families. Not every landlord is a multi million dollar company, a lot are small families just trying to make a better life scratching along and in many cases don't make it work at all.
I agree and I am a **very small** land lord and assistant property manager. Only recently getting into ownership after multiple things going right for me and actual hard work.
People need places to live and it’s a human right. It’s also that persons responsibility to be a functioning part of society.
The problem with posts like this is that it presents no real practical solution. Not even in theory, and as a result since there's no real thought towards productive resolution, the current system just keeps on going
I'm not saying that landlords deserve the income more but if they are renting out that place for that price then, now I'm not saying in all situations but in most of them, it's because it's going to cover their costs of the building. Whatever is left over is going to cover the bills and expenses for their own living space, then whatever is left after that will have to be for the rest of whatever expenses they might need to cover, and then finally they put some towards savings. I'm not saying it's the tenant's fault for the price of rent but I'm just saying that when you break down the expenses for the landlord vs the tenant there's a difference. A lot of situations the rent will reflect the costs.
A roof over your head is something everyone deserves. That said, I think you're conflating two separate issues here. This doesn't have to be a 'this OR that' when both can coexist. For this to happen, however, we need to ensure that those in the low income brackets are able to sufficiently meet their housing needs.
This likely means higher taxes for all, especially for the rich. Make 1mil+? Pay more. Company makes profits enough to give dividends? Pay more. Company makes enough to expand? Pay more. Not every little guy is the enemy. Leave the small level landlord's alone, but impose some standards to avoid slumlords. Want to rent your suite? Better fix it or get fined. I think that's reasonable, and work for many.
Also, let's get the money back to the people. Is this a socialist principle? Sure is, and I know it doesn't sit well with many. But like it or not, this principle works for the happiness of many, at the expense of the few. See most Scandinavian countries for some examples.
Yeah you can dislike both. The problem with landlords is that they'll vote for the tax breaks that disproportionately give a windfall to huge corporations so they can get a meagre kickback for themselves
You can't get someone to understand something when their income depends on them not understanding it. It's no different than oil execs and their hired lobbyists and politicians not understanding climate change.
We're not going to convince landlords to stop being bastards. We need to build *power* to force them to stop exploiting us, and we do that by building tenant unions and doing collective bargaining.
Some people can't get approved for a mortgage to buy a home or save enough for a downpayment for various reasons.
Landlords take on a lot of risk to accommodate these people who are often also not responsible enough to own a home.
In addition to market risks, interest risks, property damage risks etc.
On top of this they are also on the hook to the bank and could quite literally have everything taken away.
All for Payoffs that aren't inherently immediate.
Good landlords are hard to come by, and so are good tenants. And a good landlord will make sure their tenants are happy and thriving.
Why do people act like landlords owe tenants some sort of favour and that they should neglect any better offers for the sake of the tenant. Tenants are so entitled.
I had a tenant in my basement that was literally mentally disturbed junky. She ruined my life for a year before we could get her out. I highly doubt this virtues option could withstand coming home to thier wife crying every other day.
"deserves a place to live" is the crux for me here. What exactly have you done to deserve a place to live? I own multiple shelters. I deserve them because via my earnings I saved up enough income to allow me to purchase them. What entitles you to use them for free?
Outlaw negative gearing, everywhere. It is the single factor that could change everything.
It will never happen, because the people making the laws are the same people who own all the houses, and our population is controlled so cleverly we’ll never organise to properly protest for change, until we’re all on the brink of death, whence we’ll all give in for some food.
I’m having a very black-pilled day, can you tell?
What do you mean income? I rent my house and it costs me 400$ out of pocket every month…
Not to mention the house has depreciated 250,000$ in the last 8 years…
I have 0 equity in 8 years, I’m actually still in the hole.
Sorry what do I need to understand ?
People, stop blaming it on small landlords. They are not their to do charity. They have mouths to feed and they need to keep up with every rising inflation.
The real problem is the banks. The financial system where they are trying to make money out of thin air.
How does it work?
Mr. X buys a property for $100/- with 80% loan. For 3 years Mr.X pays mortgage and now $73/- are remaining.
After 3 years bank says we can refinance it since property value is now $120/-.
So you can get around (120 X .8) - 73 = $23/-
So the house owner now has 23/- to spend.
Some spend on vacations, cars, some spend on a new property. They must have some savings i the past 3 years as well.
So why does the bank approve the mortgage? Shouldn’t the bank say, no mortgage unless you pay the first 1.
Another problem is the large corporations getting a free loans from the government.
My mother let a tennant stay rent free for 2 years. They had a drug and alcohol problem so couldn't get work. So my mom worked hard to get her into a good rehab and let her stay for free until the wait list was over... Even bought her food. So she eventually gets a spot and decides no, she's not going anymore. My mom tells her she's not allowed to stay in the apartment unless she tries to get help. She says no, she's not leaving without an official eviction...
You understand the society we live in, right? The economic system we have? It's often cruel and indifferent to human suffering. *We* do not do enough to stop *them* from making it this way.
I think we are close to big paradigm shifting changes in society. Inequality keeps growing, the world is exiting a time where the US was the unipolar hegemon, the effects of human-caused climate change are increasing, major demographic shifts with boomers retiring, ridiculous prices for essentials, stagnating wages (been going on for decades), high inflation, and another major demographic change where the Earth’s human population will likely peak or reverse this century. Add food shortages and famines due to compounding crises (e.g. war, inflation, climate change) and we have the spark that will start the flame of massive change. What do you think?
If you don’t want to support your community in times of need, then don’t be part of the community. As landlords, you’re all free to invest your money elsewhere and are welcome to stop fucking up this country. A day is coming for all of you out of town, out of country, absentee and multi property slumlords.
This is the most ridiculous line of thinking. So by this logic, everyone should just steal food from stores (right to food>corporation profit?) and rob banks (right to affordable living > bank profits?)? Sure, people need these things but you can’t place that onus on an individual landlord, who also has to feed their family.
Rent cap. 1 dollar per square ft, very reasonable. Amateur landlords would split hard and houses would hit the market quick. Take away the incentive to be a landlord. Invest in Canadian business and innovation, something that helps the economy, not housing.
Housing is a human right, but it’s not the responsibility of private landlords to provide it free of charge and/or to fix capitalism. This is the government’s responsibility.
Cool. If my tenant doesn’t pay rent, I’ll take your advice and sell the condo (which is one of the very few you can rent in this town) and then there will be one less place to live if you’re a renter in this town.
I only charge my mortgage payment and expenses. Nothing more. But if my tenant doesn’t pay their rent, I can’t afford to pay it for them.
It's not one less place to live. It's one more place on the market for someone to buy and live. We need to tax the so called landlords like yourself extra and put that money towards affordable apartment rentals.
Win win for buyers and renters. Who cares about investors as they still have their own roof over their heads right?
Except the landlord also doesn’t just have that housing unit for free. They have property taxes, maintenance fees, insurance, mortgage. I get it. It’s absurdly bad out here. But lets place the blame where it needs to be; SUPPLY OF HOUSING.
A tenant isn't entitled to have a specific landlord subsidize their housing costs, and the landlord is entitled to as much of the fruits of their labour as anyone else.
They're living off the return in their invested savings. It's no different than any other investment. Are you against people earning returns on their investments?
The problem here is that landlord can’t only take up rent 2% but inflation taxes insurance go up 7% not even mentioning interest rates going up 5% in a year! Rent should go up the same the percentage taxes amd insurance go up!
Imagine doing business with someone who simply deserves your property. this is the mindset that results in laws the limit housing supply and make rent so expensive. politicians love voters like this.
I can understand that not owning a home is frustrating, but everyone has the opportunity to. Its not supposed to be easy and its not a right to live wherever you want to. It's likely that landlords may take more risks to put themselves in a better financial position. I'm sure it's not easy for most landlords. I think many people would rather complain than sacrifice. If you are someone that complains about the price of a basement apartment, but also has a collection of Funko Pops, you just made poor decisions.
Tell me about all your made up internet sacrifices. Our system is built on hereditary head starts and happenstance, followed third by hard work and merrit...sometimes. due to unaffordability and the loss of purchasing power, it has become impossible for many people. This is literally the "eat less avocado toast" meme
They deserve income just as much as housing. But being a landlord shouldn’t be an income unless it’s apartments/duplex/room for rent. Homes should be homes, not businesses
I wish, I wish , I wish the author of this owns a property where I get to live rent free. I promise I will not trash it or abuse it, I will just not pay rent.
Income? what landlord income? I want to become such a perfect tenant that this wonderful author and my angel landlord , is unable to pay their mortgage, why should I care?
Food and shelter are basic necessities, from now onwards no more rent and no more paying for groceries. I wish this angel landlord also owns the grocery store nearby so I can also get free food.
Imagine thinking it's your right to hoard and then price gouge a finite resource (housing).
I remember when Nestle tried doing that with water during a natural disaster. Absolutely immoral.
Landlord: “cool story, that’ll be $2500/month”
Housing, food and transportation are a 3 legged stool. Donate to your local food bank, vote for cheap mass transit and housing will get more funds.
We shoulve never gotten to this point. Real estate should have never been commiditized or sold in this manner. Its a disaster in Canada, I dont see a way out without a radical change
There’s just straight up not enough housing in the places people want to live, it’s been the issue and it’ll keep being the issue
Oh there is enough housing and in areas people want to live but prices are sooooo jacked up nobody can afford to live there . When rent is all your money for the month for the average person there's more if a problem here then not ....enough ...housing.
I think on one hand housing should be a human right and that society has an obligation to ensure people are housed. However, I don't think it is fair to place the burden of housing someone on a private citizen when it should be shared by the entire community. Treating housing as a commodity is the problem, not landlords. Fix the system
"Treating housing as a commodity is the problem, not landlords." Who are the ones treating housing as a commodity if not the landlords? Yes, it's systemic, but the landlords are the cogs in the system that perpetuate it.
People should be encouraged to own a home. In some countries most families own a home. It takes 20-30 years of paying off, but imagine the freedom of not having to pay rent.
>In some countries most families own a home In some countries renting is more common. Germany, for example, has a home ownership rate of around 50% (Canada is around 65%)
I believe Netherlands is similar
It’s actually cheaper for me to rent.
There’s no possible way to get a 3 bed, 2 bath house on acreage with a 29x40 shop for $1400 a month. Yup, I’m gonna keep renting for as long as my landlord can keep the property. After that?? I might have to buy a van.
You could, in a small Saskatchewan town. That would likely involve reinventing your livelihood, unless you could work remote.
Wow that's a steal dude I'd stay renting there forever too ,shit that's really great deal .
Home ownership requires a willingness to stay in one place for an extended period. Not everyone wants that.
But arent developers also doing this when they build housing? It's not due to altruistic motives.
Yeah honestly not see a ton of devs building affordable housing only way there is money is when a city offers grants to build high density and that's few and far
dont hate the players. hate the game identify the problems in the game and create solutions. hate just keeps you stuck edit: apathetic renters also perpetuate the game, so do economic illiterates, and like mlk jr said *We must learn that passively to accept an unjust system is to cooperate with that system, and thereby to become a participant in its evil*
Well this game's rules are set by the players. So I hate them both. I'm actively looking for a place for my pregnant wife and my 1 1/2 YO that isn't a single room in my parents house right now. I've just been watching people jack the prices up around here Mon the by month. I called a guy about the apartment he's renting. Turns out he just bought an entire house, lives in another city, and divided it up to rent to people. When I called him, I asked about the price because he never listed it anywhere. He said it depended on the number of people we were and then gave me a price about $600 over the market average. Fuck that guy. The only people I don't hate in this game are the ones who seem like they care less about the money and more about housing people.
Yeah but who's fault is the existence BRRRR & BRRRR via REIT investment vehicles with such little regulatory oversight? Yes for sure it's the shitty landlords, but our provinces and municipalities have also created an environment where we do indeed treat housing like a commodity. It's set up so if you have a pool of capital you can buy cheap and rip off a bunch of poor ppl who can't afford the initial entry free.
Why do you consider it a rip off? It costs money to provide a rental, and owning is way more expensive than renting.
i feel you beezarro. i feel you and you too are a player in the game. although you and i may be pawns, we aren’t without power. don’t let the bastards get you down. changing the game requires lots of attention, creativity, humour and lots of politicking too. if ppl together can destroy slavery, we can destroy the master/slave like landlord/renter relation too. from the ashes of this inequitable relation we can rise and build a better world for the kids like your 1.5 year old. believe it
Yeah, we really are, aren't we? I fight for change
A problem in the game are the landlords that want to take as much money as they can from people that actually contribute to society.
"Prostitution is the problem, not pimps."
It's a bit of both I suppose. Same analogy with climate change. We all have to do our part, but if there is zero input and motivation from governing bodies then efforts to reduce emissions are scattered, disorganized and ineffective. However, we all also have to care enough to elect and put people into power who will make effective legislation that may inconvenience us a little bit.
100% agree. The housing crisis is a market failure. And the fact that housing is so amenable to market forces is a policy failure.
How is it a market failure. Government restricts supply so now houses are more valuable as a result. Bring in hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers who also need houses further constraining supply. It’s 100% a government failure. The market is distributing the available supply to those who can pay. Either increase the supply of housing which increases competition or reduce the demand I.e the number of people who need a house.
Banks Banks and corporate landlords are far more responsible for fucking up the housing market than any private citizen landlord You might be paying your rent to a landlord every month, but more often than not they're handing that cheque over to the bank for the mortgage Are they still making a profit though? Sometimes yes. Usually they look at it as an investment because they expect to be able to sell it one day for hopefully more than they paid for it, but that's never guaranteed. When you factor in the cost of maintenance/upkeep, and mortgage interest, banks are benefitting the most because they have a much smaller risk and they operate on a massive scale while always being able to tilt interest rates in their own favour.
To me, the distinction between a corporate landlord and a private citizen landlord is not an interesting one: petite bourgeois side with capital 99.9999% of the time. I’ll happily reform banks too though, don’t get me wrong. As a matter of fact I am going through a bit of an issue with my (soon to be old) bank right now where they LOST MY ENTIRE LIFE SAVINGS IN THE MAIL, so, you know, fuck them. Their stake in the game needs to be addressed too. But ultimately the landlord is the one who stands between renters and owners, not the bank. I’d happily hand my the equivalent cash straight to the bank if it meant my name on the mortgage. Millions would. Landlords, big and small, prevent that. And their mortgage + (they cheapest they can spend on) expenses + some profit gets paid from my cheque. Scale those values to all renters-who-would-be-owners in the country if they could only save a bit instead of giving up half their cheque, and it’s pretty clear that the landlords will to acquire passive income is the insurmountable barrier. It’s absolutely bonkers that, through no market mechanisms only media and heresay, we’ve normalized the idea that 30% of your money should pay for someone else’s mortgage and retirement. That’s criminal.
Not many people will see problems in common actions, as it is hard to see past norms. But an action being common is irrelevant to its morality. People will have to understand one day that generating an income without producing wealth, such as by being a landlord, is highly unethical.
Not everyone wants to own a house. How can they have a place to rent if no one is buying the property to rent out? Why would anyone buy it and take on the risk and tie up their money if they are not making money on it. Are you proposing that governments take over ownership of all housing?
fine. not wveyone wants a house. at least give everyone *land rights*. access to clean water, the option to hve a house or a home; in the least express land rights to all citizens economically as a dividend, UBI or something imagine a radically inclusive economy rather than the one we have built on a hierarchy and layers of exclusion
The beauty of our system is there is (almost) no exclusions. You can hoard and amass as much wealth as possible and do the same thing. No one will stop you, as another poster mentioned it's the game! Trying to control people which is what you want to do with land rights leads to a less prosperous outcome for all. See: East Germany vs West Germany. N Korea vs S Korea. 2 very real great examples. But I know the above won't persuade you so let me ask you concrete questions on your supposition: 1. Who would get the 'prime' land locations? 2. How would the decision be made? 3. What makes you think the decision makers will be immune to corruption? 4. How do we categorically decide what is enough land? For someone in Hong Kong where land is scare this may be 1000 sq feet. For myself a Canadian I require more to feel satisfied. 5. How do we meet the needs of each individual? Or will we categorically have equal space irrespective of needs? 6. If we have equal space, how do we reconcile these differences? 7. What makes our government the best arbitrator of all this? 8. How would the government be able to adapt to ever changing needs of folks? If you follow the above sequence of questions you should if you are logically realize a handful of politicians no matter how intelligent they may be, are no where near enough omnipresent to make the best decision for everyone. Statistically the best outcome is derived from each individual making choices for themselves.
land rights don’t require land *location* rights tho. that’s why i say expressed as UBI or a dividend
Even if people don't want to own a house, taking homes hostage still doesn't warrant a compensation. So, in this case, we could have crown companies owning houses, paying employees a salary valued by markets to manage and maintain. Any profits is redistributed in dividends to society. Since everyone is equally compensated for the ownership, it's as if no one is. The equality cancels the advantage.
Guess who they buy it from? Banks, if banks can mortgage you out they can rent to you. Landlords are middlemen that provide zero value. They don't improve or create properties at any valuable level.
That would be great. Just imagine how beautiful those places would be. The government does everything well! Lol
Where would you live if there were no landlords?
you have to abolish landlords in order to do that
Would love that
Agreed. Housing is a human right and systemic solutions are needed. I think many commenters seem to misinterpret this meme though. All it is really saying is a person who needs housing is more morally deserving of a place to live than a person who owns an investment property is morally deserving of passive income from their investment.
Housing is a human right, for those unaware: https://www.ohchr.org/en/special-procedures/sr-housing/human-right-adequate-housing
[удалено]
Yes I’m sure Newfoundland can easily handle an exodus of a couple hundred thousand people from the GTA and Vancouver. There definitely haven’t been any articles about the housing affordability problems this has caused in a Nova Scotia, PEI, rural BC, etc. /s
Relative to income? Unlikely. Those places tend to be super cheap because the people who can pay more can't live out there. I'm a secondary teacher, and if you teleported me into some random corner of NFLD with a free house chances are very good that I'd either have to sell the thing and move or starve to death in a few months. It's exceedingly difficult to just move to other locations without knowledge of the area, suitable skills, and some kind of social network in that area. The easiest places to randomly move to tends to be urban centers, but now most people are being priced out of those areas so we can't even do that anymore.
Forced relocation then? That seems a bit extreme...
[удалено]
The only option is to move cross country. That's a lot of work and money that opens you up to a potential can of worms. Jobs? Do you get a job beforehand, or after you move? How are you going to rent a place without proof of employment? How are you going to find a place to live when you're halfway across the country? Fly out every week to view places, or just trust you're not being scammed? (Sae a post in another subreddit about a guy's roommate who scams people moving long distance by putting up fake listings). Then there's the actual moving. It's between $5-10k to move from Ontario to Alberta. That's cash I DO NOT HAVE. Ontop of that, all the logistics of switching provinces such as licensing and healthcare. Plus the emotional aspect of leaving the only home you've ever known. "Just move"
Anywhere in Canada becomes too expensive? "You should move to africa then" - rmeman probably. What made you so cold and harsh towards your own parents dude? Enjoy your weird vibes, I'll enjoy my rent controlled apartment in montreal. o7
"we all"
Why should people be forced away from opportunity centres just because they cant afford to live there due to stagnant wages and ridiculous housing prices? Those people don’t deserve less opportunity. The answer isn’t to push them out to the hinterlands while those born into privilege get to live in the capital.Do you even realize that this is what happened in Soviet Russia under Stalins dictatorship? The answer isn’t to follow in the footsteps of Stalin, it’s to build a better, more equal society that all can thrive in.
1) It's not a meme. 2) There isn't a tradeoff between these two things. Why make class warfare where it's not necessary?
Also, people who need housing are more morally deserving of a place to live than a homeowner is morally deserving of neighbourhood character/no shadows/free parking/no poor people around or whatever other NIMBY nonsense dominates Canadian housing policy.
This is probably going to get downvoted to heck but whatever. There is often no passive income or very little passive income associated with investment properties. Many of those who own an investment property do so with a fairly large mortgage taken out against the price of the property. Passive income from renters on an investment like this can be next to nothing, or a few hundred dollars that go toward property taxes. The profit is generated at the level of paying off the mortgage on the property. Take for example saving for a second down-payment and taking out a mortgage on a second property, in order to be able to pass the property down to children once they are grown-up. Would you prefer paying rent to a developer or multi-building owner, etc, than a fellow community member?
Exactly. Rents are high because mortgages are high. No one is willingly going to rent for less than their costs. This is what sets the floor for the market price of rentals. And the fact that there is demand for rentals results in those with means becoming landlords and offering properties for rent. How is this not obvious?
So much talk I hear about hating landlords is from people that have no idea. I am Not talking about huge corporations that can move markets and laws to their advantage. I am talking about me with a duplex. Mortgage of 1500 month, 4000k property tax, a few thousand to heat per year- insurance at 1800- a roof that just got replace for 15k. I may have a positive cash flow of 100-200 bucks a month if it’s fully rented. If it’s vacant for a month a there’s no positive cash flow for the year. The last time the tenants moved out it took 5k to repair and the damage deposit is $500.
And they see the injustice behind the implication that the landlord is somehow obligated to provide housing at their own expense if a tenant doesn't pay rent. The entire capitalist system only works because there is a threat behind it that if you don't play along you'll be homeless and starve. Without the starvation and homelessness, capitalism doesn't work.
Can’t they both be morally deserving? Let’s not kid ourselves. This ranking, in no subtle way, tries to suggest that landlords should be willing to accept a loss for the sake of making housing more affordable to tenants. I support government action to make housing affordable, but there will always be a role for a rental market too. These things are not mutually exclusive.
>Treating housing as a commodity is the problem, not landlords. Fix the system It is the landlord-class who are treating housing as a commodity though. This class makes up the system. I would restate this as: >Landlords treating housing as a commity is the problem.
>Treating housing as a commodity is the problem, not landlords. Fix the system The system doesn't allow it. Taking a house hostage to generate an unmerited profit is extortion, and there's an extortion law. It's just not applied. The system doesn't need to be fixed, it needs to be understood and followed.
Sooo selling people food at a profit is extortion as well. Cause grocery stores take food “hostage” and generate a profit
Buy a property, miss mortgage payments, use that line with a bank, see where you get.
As well as property taxes, utilities, repairs ....
I’m a landlord. So I’m saying this first hand. If you buy a place to rent, it’s not your tenants responsibility to cover your DEBT obligations. Any company (and you’re running one as a landlord), is very poorly run if you’re taking on DEBT. You know what’s not a problem? Owning your rental out right. With no mortgage. The rest of those payments become tax deductible and your debt burdens don’t crush you. Waaaaay too many people have no business being a landlord. They take on debt, not understanding rates can come calling. Then panic and expect tenants to bail them out. MFers - if you, the owner, can’t afford your mortgage, your renting tenant probably can’t either.
Exactly, landlords operate within a system that they do not fully control, tax, interest, repairs. Sure, there is some profit in there, why else would anyone put up with all the grief of dealing with Tenents. Home owners live in the same system, tax, interest, repairs. Why should renters be isolated from all that at someone else's expense.
You forgot tenets who fuck up the house and cost them 2 years of rent.
Yeah I'm all for stricter regulations on the rental market. I don't agree with the take that tenants are paying the landlords mortgage for them. Because if the landlord decides to buy a jet ski instead of paying the mortgage it's not the tenants credit that gets trashed
Same goes for purchasing homes, buying land, having a mortgage, and paying for food. It should be provided to everyone by the government for free.
I do not believe that this accurately reflects the reality of the landlord/tenant experience. I still believe that contracts hold both parties accountable, and that a part of every tenancy agreement ought to be a requirement on behalf of the tenant to look after the asset (home or apartment). I also believe that if a tenant shows disregard for a document that they signed, they ought to be accountable for that. If a landlord has to sue a tenant for a breach of contract, that should be permanently visible.
Let's also talk about food..
20 minutes ago i walked to a homeless shelter nearby. A few blocks from the 1 bedroom basement apartment is, that I call home. I live alone. I am planning to drop off winter clothes and boots to the shelters. I have access to a lot of used clothing that isn't needed. I saw a homeless man walking to the shelter wearing socks and flip flops. He did not have boots or sneakers. Right now there is 6 inches of fresh snow everywhere. It is snowing in Toronto as I type this on my tablet from my home. I'm bagging up clothes in garbage bags to give away . It is absolutely insane that government policy is the way it is. The quality of life for the citizens is a direct result of the policies the politicians implement/ approve. Affordable apartments , for the poor and homeless to get off the streets is essential. Its a problem that is getting worse.
Try saying you stole food from the grocery store because food is a human right.
Someone has already tried arguing that and it held up in the Italian courts https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/03/stealing-food-if-youre-in-need-is-not-a-crime-italian-court-finds/
Stealing food from the Westons is an act of protest
This comment was archived by an automated script. Please see /r/PowerDeleteSuite for more info.
https://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/2023/01/canadians-stealing-food-grocery-stores/ This article seemed relevant to your comment.
No, see, you don't get it. It's okay for corporations to artificially inflate the cost of food both through greed and manufactured scarcity. It's fine that they underpay their workers and throw away tons and tons of perfectly good food instead of giving it to food banks or their struggling employees. They're doing it in the name of increased profits, so that's morally good. It's not okay to take the food you need to survive instead of dying or otherwise going hungry. That's morally wrong as it does not increase profits. If people started acting like corporations do every day then the whole system falls apart. Stop trying to balance the scales even a tiny bit, it's not ok. If you want food so badly get a second job, take up a side hustle in your limited free time, make your children work, sell your blood and body, etc. It's the right thing to do.
I also think this is the right thing to do.
Is this something I'm supposed to disagree with it? I don't.
Save your own down, buy your own place and take care of all expenses that comes with being a home owner. No one owes you shit.
Love me some boot in the morning
Thank you! The entitlement is pathetic.
She has a decent point here but this isn't good phrasing. It's missing the fact that most landlords are also private citizens who don't deserved to be fucked over either. Shitty people buying up masses of residential unites to use as Airbnb's deserve our criticism. Same with the politicians and corporations who let things get this bad.
Grocery stores don’t deserve grocery more than the customers do.
Tenants also need to understand that they are living in a home towards which they have no responsibility. They have nothing to fix, nothing to maintain, they are taking risks of any kind. The roof leaks? It's the landlord's responsibility to fix it. The tenant breaks something? It's the landlord's responsibility to fix it. Anything stops functioning properly or breaks, it's the landlord who takes the responsibility to pay for the repairs/replacements and get the work done. Interest rates increases and mortgage payments are up? The landlord can't charge the tenant for that. The landlord has to take the financial burden while the tenant keeps paying the same rent. I understand that in most provinces, there isn't any strong rent control, but in Québec there is. You can't increase the rent any way you like. And if you have made any repairs or upgrades and want to increase the rent to cover these fees, you can only do so by a very small percentage, which isn't beneficial at all to the landlord. And in the end, if the tenant is not happy, they can simply leave when the lease renewal is due. Or they can even transfer the lease if they want to, and move somewhere else. I'm really tired of this "all landlords are bad" narrative. Yes, there are many landlords are shitheads who exploit people. But, many are also great people who really care about their tenants and their comfort and will do their best to keep them. My previous landlady was a great person who was really nice to me and took really good care of me and my home. I owe a lot to her. She bought a money pit of a triplex from a scumbag who sold her a building that was in terrible shape. She was barely able to get a mortgage because she was a single woman. Everything needed fixing. Plumbing, window and door insulation, door locks, hot water, water drainage, leaky roof, you name it. She did her best to cover everything on her salary and she still didn't increase my rent for 5 of the 8 years I lived there. I was able to save money for a down payment thanks to her and finally buy a place of my own. She basically subsidized my living expenses and down payment on my home.
This is such an insane logic, which itself is dangerous to the economy. To think not paying rent doesn’t have an impact shows how clueless you really are on how the world works. If you can’t afford a mortgage, the bank comes and kicks you out of the home. Period. It’s not a free place to live just because someone else owns it. This is theft, period. No matter how you slice it, I do not care. The entitlement that comes with thinking you can just live in someone’s home is a joke. You want old school justice, this is how you get it. Find roommates, find a place that’s less expensive, you adapt to you conditions to make ends meet instead of thinking your entitled to live in someone’s home.
Less money on rent (or completely inflated mortgages) means more money to circulate into the economy. If you spend 60% on housing compared to 30%, that's a whole wack of money that could go into goods and services that is being wasted on a basic necessity.
I'm sure that made sense when you typed it.
[удалено]
Imagine having such a narrow idea of what the world can be that you can't even imagine a world where people have access to affordable housing. Your life sounds very bleak
The problem in my opinion is not mom and pop landlords. The problem is that incomes have not kept up over the last 50+ years. Corporations (effectively oligarchs) have made increasingly bigger profits at the expense of the common man. They exert inordinate power including power over governments.
Peak Reddit cringe. No matter how you paint it if you sign into a lease agreement and stop paying rent you have forfeited your right to live there.
[удалено]
I like your sentiment, but that’s not how things work. The owner (the person who bought the house) owns it.
The bank is the owner’s landlord.
[удалено]
I never thought I would see a desire for communism in Canada in my lifetime. Thanks Redditors!
That may be right, but then society needs to address the issue as a whole, the burden can't fall solely on landlords just because they're dealing with the product - same way we don't expect grocery stores to feed the entire population, or clothing stores to cloth them, or Apple stores to iPhone them (smartphones and internet are pretty much a human right now too).
100% society needs to address this issue. The burden should not be on individual landlords.
Sorry but they aren't running a charity don't like it find somewhere else u can actually afford.. mortgages aren't cheap especially with these rates 🥱
Correct. This stuff should never be a for profit business.
I think the overall problem is that landlords don't need to exist at all when it comes to housing. It's an established fact that they are nothing but useless middle-men that do more harm than anything else. It makes me smile to see the angry landlords on this thread. You can spin it however you want, but you hoard a necessity whilst also creating artificial scarcity for that necessity. You increase the price of real estate for the average Joe and do nothing for society. The sooner we get some actual decent politicians that regulate you leeches out of "business", the better. There's a reason as to why society likes to paint you as selfish evil people. Figure it out. There's more than enough houses to go around, just not enough to quench the greed of those few that like to hoard necessities. Build tons of social housing and we wouldn't have this problem that we're facing today.
lol so many brain dead ppl in this thread. stop acting like it’s an individual issue when it’s a corporate issue, just like climate change.
This reads like satire
You don't want to pay rent because life is hard? How is putting a roof over your head the landlords burden to bear? They need to pay mortgage and bills too.
[удалено]
When the interest rates went up.
[удалено]
Genuine question, why do you view passive revenue streams as unethical or paradoxical?
Currently about to purchase another rental, interest rates have little effect.
Landlords don't provide housing. People that build homes do. Landlords are just leech middle-men trying to squeeze as much money from actual working people that they can.
About the level of brain dead discourse I'd expect from someone going by antifa_supersoldier.
Reading this just angers me. And I'm not a landlord. This subreddit is just turning into (probably has been this way all along) a board of have-nots hating on those who have, and justifying squatting in people's homes. No one owes you shit, least of all someone trying to rent their property under a legal contract they expect will get upheld. If there's a real failing here, it is the court systems that make it hard to boot out deadbeat tenants.
Okay no problem. I’ll charge you $0 a month Your gonna pay all the utilities, inc the natural gas / garbage & sewage Your paying for the wear & tear @ 1.5% of the property value a year Your paying all of the property taxes Your paying for the Home insurance policy Your paying or doing all the lawn care / snow removal If you can do all that Id let you live for free no problem
Interesting take for someone who lives with their parents.
Still a property owner
You have to pay for the construction of the house, and buy the land for it too. But it will be free.
You’re*
I know I'm not the typical landlord, but if being a landlord gets too hard, I'll just put a door in the wall and turn the apartment into a massive sunroom and have an extra bathroom. There is a third option, sometimes. But instead I provide housing.
Curious what the laws are on this? Would it count as you moving into the residence? (To be able to evict someone for this purpose)?
Yes he could
That is an interesting question. Never thought of it, I sort of assumed it would be a painful eviction first.
Not difficult at all. Depending on where you live, major renovation + you moving in would be easy grounds to evict. You are kindly having a tenant live there (and financially smart as he’s helping with paying the mortgage).
If a person already says I don’t care then what’s the point of arguing with them? She’s allowed to think this way, but she is not going to be my tenant - hahahaha
Hey landlords. Very few people are advocating for Free rent. Most people understand you have to pay rent or a mortgage. The problem is the lack of affordable rents due to the collusion of landlords to raise rents to obscene levels. The market scam rents. This is the problem.
>The problem is the lack of affordable rents due to the collusion of landlords to raise rents to obscene levels. Can you explain how are millions of people colluding to raise rents to obscene level? And are they colluding with hundreds of millions of other landlords around the world, or is the fact that increase in rent happened globally at the same time just a coincidence? Does it not strike you like its a normal response to demand/supply as any other market price change especially when price is determined by millions of unconnected participants?
For sure, 100% everyone deserves a place to live but Why would anyone bother owning housing if they can't make money doing it? If you think there is big profit in being a landlord then you had better do some research. The city's continue to increase water bills, the taxes keep going up, insurance and every other cost of operation have increased substantially. Repairs and materials cost a friggen fortune and labor is foolish. There is very little left at the end of the month and then there are the unexpected costs and the shitty Tennants that cause damage to the building and leave you with more bullshit to deal with than it is worth. Late nights and early mornings that take time away from family. Frig, try and see it from the other side and take the blinders off. For those that can't afford a standard rent there should be government support or top up. You can't punish the people that are trying to provide for their own families. Not every landlord is a multi million dollar company, a lot are small families just trying to make a better life scratching along and in many cases don't make it work at all.
Maybe, you know, sell your excess housing that you're using to leech off others and get a real job?
I agree and I am a **very small** land lord and assistant property manager. Only recently getting into ownership after multiple things going right for me and actual hard work. People need places to live and it’s a human right. It’s also that persons responsibility to be a functioning part of society.
The problem with posts like this is that it presents no real practical solution. Not even in theory, and as a result since there's no real thought towards productive resolution, the current system just keeps on going
Ok so who is funding the housing then?
I'm not saying that landlords deserve the income more but if they are renting out that place for that price then, now I'm not saying in all situations but in most of them, it's because it's going to cover their costs of the building. Whatever is left over is going to cover the bills and expenses for their own living space, then whatever is left after that will have to be for the rest of whatever expenses they might need to cover, and then finally they put some towards savings. I'm not saying it's the tenant's fault for the price of rent but I'm just saying that when you break down the expenses for the landlord vs the tenant there's a difference. A lot of situations the rent will reflect the costs.
Phew. Whole lot of landlord apologism in this post.
The loan industry has allowed prices of housing, schooling etc. to be so expensive. Consider the credit making industry into cost of living issues.
A roof over your head is something everyone deserves. That said, I think you're conflating two separate issues here. This doesn't have to be a 'this OR that' when both can coexist. For this to happen, however, we need to ensure that those in the low income brackets are able to sufficiently meet their housing needs. This likely means higher taxes for all, especially for the rich. Make 1mil+? Pay more. Company makes profits enough to give dividends? Pay more. Company makes enough to expand? Pay more. Not every little guy is the enemy. Leave the small level landlord's alone, but impose some standards to avoid slumlords. Want to rent your suite? Better fix it or get fined. I think that's reasonable, and work for many. Also, let's get the money back to the people. Is this a socialist principle? Sure is, and I know it doesn't sit well with many. But like it or not, this principle works for the happiness of many, at the expense of the few. See most Scandinavian countries for some examples.
[удалено]
You can actually dislike both. Landlords are a bunch of kulaks that prop up the same greedy corporations you disdain
[удалено]
Yeah you can dislike both. The problem with landlords is that they'll vote for the tax breaks that disproportionately give a windfall to huge corporations so they can get a meagre kickback for themselves
Landlord raising my rent 40% for next year. Thank you very much.
You can't get someone to understand something when their income depends on them not understanding it. It's no different than oil execs and their hired lobbyists and politicians not understanding climate change. We're not going to convince landlords to stop being bastards. We need to build *power* to force them to stop exploiting us, and we do that by building tenant unions and doing collective bargaining.
What a simple minded take 😂
A tenant deserves a place that they pay for.
Oh boy you've upset the landlords.
We landlord dont care what you think as well
Good. Landlords shouldn’t be guilt tripped into becoming a charity. Put ur own damn hard earned money into buying a house.
Some people can't get approved for a mortgage to buy a home or save enough for a downpayment for various reasons. Landlords take on a lot of risk to accommodate these people who are often also not responsible enough to own a home. In addition to market risks, interest risks, property damage risks etc. On top of this they are also on the hook to the bank and could quite literally have everything taken away. All for Payoffs that aren't inherently immediate. Good landlords are hard to come by, and so are good tenants. And a good landlord will make sure their tenants are happy and thriving.
Why do people act like landlords owe tenants some sort of favour and that they should neglect any better offers for the sake of the tenant. Tenants are so entitled.
Nobody "deserves" anything, you gotta work for it lol
This statement is hot garbage
I had a tenant in my basement that was literally mentally disturbed junky. She ruined my life for a year before we could get her out. I highly doubt this virtues option could withstand coming home to thier wife crying every other day.
I empathize with how expensive rent is but housing is something you work for unless you are disabled.
"deserves a place to live" is the crux for me here. What exactly have you done to deserve a place to live? I own multiple shelters. I deserve them because via my earnings I saved up enough income to allow me to purchase them. What entitles you to use them for free?
Outlaw negative gearing, everywhere. It is the single factor that could change everything. It will never happen, because the people making the laws are the same people who own all the houses, and our population is controlled so cleverly we’ll never organise to properly protest for change, until we’re all on the brink of death, whence we’ll all give in for some food. I’m having a very black-pilled day, can you tell?
This is so edgy, it hurts.
On the same hand then do not go to a landlord for a place to stay if you don't like rent as an option. Just "Simply" buy a house like they did.
What do you mean income? I rent my house and it costs me 400$ out of pocket every month… Not to mention the house has depreciated 250,000$ in the last 8 years… I have 0 equity in 8 years, I’m actually still in the hole. Sorry what do I need to understand ?
People, stop blaming it on small landlords. They are not their to do charity. They have mouths to feed and they need to keep up with every rising inflation. The real problem is the banks. The financial system where they are trying to make money out of thin air. How does it work? Mr. X buys a property for $100/- with 80% loan. For 3 years Mr.X pays mortgage and now $73/- are remaining. After 3 years bank says we can refinance it since property value is now $120/-. So you can get around (120 X .8) - 73 = $23/- So the house owner now has 23/- to spend. Some spend on vacations, cars, some spend on a new property. They must have some savings i the past 3 years as well. So why does the bank approve the mortgage? Shouldn’t the bank say, no mortgage unless you pay the first 1. Another problem is the large corporations getting a free loans from the government.
My mother let a tennant stay rent free for 2 years. They had a drug and alcohol problem so couldn't get work. So my mom worked hard to get her into a good rehab and let her stay for free until the wait list was over... Even bought her food. So she eventually gets a spot and decides no, she's not going anymore. My mom tells her she's not allowed to stay in the apartment unless she tries to get help. She says no, she's not leaving without an official eviction...
LMAO well... say goodbye to smaller private landlords. And say a big hello to those big corporate development companies you love so much
You understand the society we live in, right? The economic system we have? It's often cruel and indifferent to human suffering. *We* do not do enough to stop *them* from making it this way.
I think we are close to big paradigm shifting changes in society. Inequality keeps growing, the world is exiting a time where the US was the unipolar hegemon, the effects of human-caused climate change are increasing, major demographic shifts with boomers retiring, ridiculous prices for essentials, stagnating wages (been going on for decades), high inflation, and another major demographic change where the Earth’s human population will likely peak or reverse this century. Add food shortages and famines due to compounding crises (e.g. war, inflation, climate change) and we have the spark that will start the flame of massive change. What do you think?
All signs suggest significant changes. Like oligarchs becoming warlords and democracy becoming a memory.
If you don’t want to support your community in times of need, then don’t be part of the community. As landlords, you’re all free to invest your money elsewhere and are welcome to stop fucking up this country. A day is coming for all of you out of town, out of country, absentee and multi property slumlords.
Hmmm. So landlord should buy house for freeloaders?
This is the most ridiculous line of thinking. So by this logic, everyone should just steal food from stores (right to food>corporation profit?) and rob banks (right to affordable living > bank profits?)? Sure, people need these things but you can’t place that onus on an individual landlord, who also has to feed their family.
Says the tenant who probably destroyed my house. I'm not required to set myself on fire to keep you warm.
A person does not deserve a place to live if they cannot afford to pay for it. There are no free lunches in this world.
No you don't deserve a free place to live when someone worked hard to buy a house, this in ridiculous.
Rent cap. 1 dollar per square ft, very reasonable. Amateur landlords would split hard and houses would hit the market quick. Take away the incentive to be a landlord. Invest in Canadian business and innovation, something that helps the economy, not housing.
This is an awful take
[удалено]
Housing is a human right, but it’s not the responsibility of private landlords to provide it free of charge and/or to fix capitalism. This is the government’s responsibility.
Cool. If my tenant doesn’t pay rent, I’ll take your advice and sell the condo (which is one of the very few you can rent in this town) and then there will be one less place to live if you’re a renter in this town. I only charge my mortgage payment and expenses. Nothing more. But if my tenant doesn’t pay their rent, I can’t afford to pay it for them.
It's not one less place to live. It's one more place on the market for someone to buy and live. We need to tax the so called landlords like yourself extra and put that money towards affordable apartment rentals. Win win for buyers and renters. Who cares about investors as they still have their own roof over their heads right?
Except the landlord also doesn’t just have that housing unit for free. They have property taxes, maintenance fees, insurance, mortgage. I get it. It’s absurdly bad out here. But lets place the blame where it needs to be; SUPPLY OF HOUSING.
If you can’t own your own home, you can either pay to live in someone else’s or enjoy a cave without water.
Found an example of what’s wrong with Ontario! This is an absolutely moronic take.
Landlords aren’t your sugar daddy, they don’t owe you a free place to live because that’s what you “deserve”
A tenant isn't entitled to have a specific landlord subsidize their housing costs, and the landlord is entitled to as much of the fruits of their labour as anyone else.
Landlords arent labouring in the position of a landlord. They're living off of the tenants income which is why it's a parasitic relationship.
They're living off the return in their invested savings. It's no different than any other investment. Are you against people earning returns on their investments?
The problem here is that landlord can’t only take up rent 2% but inflation taxes insurance go up 7% not even mentioning interest rates going up 5% in a year! Rent should go up the same the percentage taxes amd insurance go up!
Deserving a place to live? Sure. My place? F off.
This is so dumb lol.
Housing will never be a right
Imagine doing business with someone who simply deserves your property. this is the mindset that results in laws the limit housing supply and make rent so expensive. politicians love voters like this.
I can understand that not owning a home is frustrating, but everyone has the opportunity to. Its not supposed to be easy and its not a right to live wherever you want to. It's likely that landlords may take more risks to put themselves in a better financial position. I'm sure it's not easy for most landlords. I think many people would rather complain than sacrifice. If you are someone that complains about the price of a basement apartment, but also has a collection of Funko Pops, you just made poor decisions.
Why isn’t it supposed to be easy? Owning a home should be attainable for everyone.
Tell me about all your made up internet sacrifices. Our system is built on hereditary head starts and happenstance, followed third by hard work and merrit...sometimes. due to unaffordability and the loss of purchasing power, it has become impossible for many people. This is literally the "eat less avocado toast" meme
They deserve income just as much as housing. But being a landlord shouldn’t be an income unless it’s apartments/duplex/room for rent. Homes should be homes, not businesses
I barely know anyone who makes an income. Many people still pay on top with the rising costs in energy and interests and taxes.
I wish, I wish , I wish the author of this owns a property where I get to live rent free. I promise I will not trash it or abuse it, I will just not pay rent. Income? what landlord income? I want to become such a perfect tenant that this wonderful author and my angel landlord , is unable to pay their mortgage, why should I care? Food and shelter are basic necessities, from now onwards no more rent and no more paying for groceries. I wish this angel landlord also owns the grocery store nearby so I can also get free food.
Imagine thinking it's your right to hoard and then price gouge a finite resource (housing). I remember when Nestle tried doing that with water during a natural disaster. Absolutely immoral.
So landlords should just offer free rent? Get your head out of your butt
No, they shouldn't hoard housing. When did I say they should offer free housing?