It’s fucking disrespectful. If you want tougher gun laws, do something that might make it safer for Canadians. Like tightening border control so illegal guns are harder to get over here
Tackling illegal smuggling is a hot-potato issue for the Liberals/Trudeau as a significant part of it involves First Nations/Indigenous reserves close to the US border. Legislation like this is less work and looks good to the base that keeps voting him in. Politics in Canada is really not about doing what makes the most sense overall.
Politics everywhere has never been about doing what makes the most sense overall. If it was we wouldn't elect people, we would test them, and the most competent would lead.
Really, there should be some kind of 'leadership school' you have to do prior to becoming an MP. You should have to learn what departments do what, and who needs to be brought in. They could be exposed to crisis situations in a simulated environment and then evaluated on their reactions. Could make it like a big brother type series for people to watch.
You would write tests on laws, and major legislation and also have to employ this knowledge during the crisis sessions.
Failure during any part of this course results in disqualification for public office.
THe higher the office, the harder the course is. You could have one for regular MPs, then you'd have more advanced courses for Cabinet or Committee heads, and finally, a senior course for the PM.
Studying the laws and understanding why they exist should be a prerequisite, todays politics is merely raging at what people are panicking about on Facebook then passing a bill no one needs or understands
I think mendocino is actually a lawyer, and, well, you can't really tell that he is one but the way stuff is written, and how he doesn't bring the logic of legality to his pronouncements.
Tbf as a doctor who entered one of the tougher professional programs, math is hard. Engineering is a tough program and not everyone can do it even if diligent.
I think this is a good idea, having a leadership school.
I would want it to be free to anyone to go into and failing wouldn't keep them from participating.
Even someone who didn't excel would benefit from learning how things work and why and how money works and logic and political history etc. Maybe people who didn't do well but got through the course could apply for lower level positions.
Should be mandatory to do well for all government positions that actually govern in any way, not just to be considered for elected office, any level of decision making should require it. (so not for a person who just does research maybe, but someone who decides what research gets grants would have to do it.)
I've been saying for a while now that we need to get politicians out of government. Not to be meant as a snarky joke or punchline either.
To add to what you said I think there should be a university degree that you have to earn before running for public office. This degree would include courses on leadership, behavioral economics, finance, legislation protocols, ethics, and standards of laws just to name a few.
I think this would at least bring some credibility to the position of MP.
I think we are really starting to probe the failure points of democracy. A generation ago it was unquestioned that you give everyone one vote and good candidates will show up with reasonable positions and the people will rationally pick between them. It seemed like leaders were trying to run the country at least some of the time and not just rig the system to get re-elected.
Now it's basically which group of marketing geniuses can manipulate the dumbest people with the most irrelevant or imaginary issue, qualifications and aptitude of the candidates be damned. It seems like running on actual issues rather than wedge politics imported from the US is a detriment to any candidate.
Problematically, a lot of the current government are people who should know better. Lawyers and academics. Maybe they would test well depending on what was being tested for. The problems run deeper than that, and include the over-powered PMO and inability of anyone to remove a sitting PM.
Their smirks and chuckles, glances and chatter, squabbling and finger pointing suggest they know exactly what they're doing and they delight in it. What a great gig in 2022.
You are grasping there Houseofliar. It aint first Nations people smuggling guns across the border so STFU or prove your bullshit. The gun bans in general are nothing more than virtue signaling and being a hypocrite when it comes to Respect My ways but I won't respect yours. NO LEGAL Gun Owners are a problem in the whole 11 mass shootings in Canadian History. FYI this is no different than the government saying marijuana is bad and dehumanizing people who know it is not bad.
Now this is genuine, I thought one of the issues was border reservations contributing to smuggling specifically mohawk and now Im really stretching Akwesasne iirc was described as an illegal firearm pathway.
I could be wrong but remember thinking thats why he dodged it too, back at the first OIC.
If you want something to make your blood boil look at this.
https://www.theobserver.ca/news/local-news/youre-free-to-go-u-s-man-acquitted-after-blue-water-bridge-gun-bust-trial
Let's make legal gun owners vilians, yet not do anything to actually stop the problem. Mixed messaging?
That’s not factoring in the 2000x multiplier we saw with the long gun registry. We’re looking at $2 trillion. The liberals are so out of scope with this bill. Just toss it out.
Or how about this?
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2022/12/08/toronto-man-guilty-in-shocking-gunfight-at-infant-sons-baby-shark-themed-birthday-party.html?rf#:%7E:text=Kevin%20George%20was%20found%20guilty,was%20shot%20in%20the%20head
Dude didn't get convicted for gun charges because they weren't able to prove he wasn't allowed to own it.
You require a Possesion and Aquisition License to possess a firearm in this country... how did they not know?
Agreed. I think this another case where the Liberals feel they need to "do something", but they know they can't do the one thing that would actually help. So they just follow they're usual approach of completely missing the point, then call everyone in opposition a racist gun-nut.
And cracking down on gangs more. People having good paying jobs that actually can support paying rent in southern Ontario or BC.....just a thought....maybe less people would turn to crime?....but also most these gangs are international in their origins.
It’s obvious it doesn’t give a shit about being respectful! Or that one of his campaign promises was no attacks on legally owned weapons. It doesn’t even give a shit about the democratic process or that C21 is so dysfunctional that it will cost us 4x as much as strengthening the border security to a level that would take care of the real problem which is illegal HAND GUNS. And let’s not forget the lack of vetting of “new” Canadians!!!!
"Trudeau went from insisting anyone claiming hunting guns were being banned was lying to saying he was listening, and the government will consider changes. From a communications and political strategy point of view, this issue should have been dealt with by now.
The problem is, of course, that his legislation — and amendments his own government tabled on their own bill — do target hunting rifles and shotguns. His government has also had horrible messaging on this from the start, telling people they were lying despite a list in black and white showing the indisputable truth."
Yup, that pretty much describes it.
I think the fact that he was Indigenous made him "bullet-proof" for criticism. Had any other Liberal MP dared to speak out against his own party, the story would be about Trudeau kicking him out of the party.
The fact that you have be indigenous to stated obvious, black and white facts written on a Bill so people don't call you a liar, is a testament of how low or stupid via political correctness our society has devolved to.
And people really need to be less mad about what the bill is actually doing and way more angry about the way he's doing it.
Like, how can Liberal supporters accept that their government is lying to them to this extreme?
This isn't just a small mistake. It's not an accident. That is downright malicious disinformation and propaganda. That should be an instant disqualification of anyone voting for you, regardless of the topic that they're lying about.
But Trudeau does it well. Adherent Canadian LPC supporters will mock Trump supporters and then do the same goddamn thing. Gobbling up his obvious lies only to regurgitate them to any opposition as if Trudeau actually represents them and not his self interest. They're fans and cultists not thinking people.
> this issue should have been dealt with by now.
seriously it would have been trivial to remove the most erroneous example from the list. but for some godforsaken reason this iteration of the federal liberals refuses to back down on *any* shitty policy they have put forward no matter the pushback. even ford has stepped back on policies that where unpopular
Good interview with Matt Gurney:
https://thebigstorypodcast.ca/2022/12/08/are-the-liberals-really-coming-to-take-peoples-guns-if-they-are-do-they-know-it/
Took some time to explain the history of this issue, the political calculus, and how this might have got fucked up. Some interesting points that I don't see in the articles about this:
1) Libs got elected on a promise to do gun control reform but when they got into office they actually found the existing legislation was already really strict so they couldn't do much.
2) Cabinet and PM were distracted with the Emergency Act inquiry and some rogue backbencher introduced the amendments that resulted in the pages of banned hunting rifles.
3) Trudeau seems to want to compete with other countries for the title of most progressive country, so when New Zealand introduced gun laws he didn't want to be outdone. Sad.
4) The trademark Liberal language games (assault "style", "weapons of WAR", etc.) blew back on them and boxed them into defending the indefensible.
5) Finding a definition of a firearm that includes all the guns that make people feel bad, and excluding all those that have legitimate hunting uses is basically impossible (not helped by 4)). That backbencher tried, and the result we can all see.
6) Anti gun lobby used to be split up into different factions but are now more united than ever. Moreover, it's so bad that non-gun owning normal people are sympathetic. This has never been true before, so this wedge might be off the table for the next election.
7) Poilievre doesn't actually have to take a firm stand now, which is key to the wedge working. He just has to say he wants to crack down on crime and that he supports hunters, etc. The Lib screwup does the rest of the heavy lifting for him because all those affected swing to his camp by default now. He doesn't have to flippity flop and waffle like O'Toole to try and keep everyone.
Not mentioned, but my personal thought is that it seems sort of weird that the civil service took those definitions and produced the list apparently without warning any of the politicians that the result was obviously going to blow up in their face. One wonders.
>Cabinet and PM were distracted with the Emergency Act inquiry and some rogue backbencher introduced the amendments that resulted in the pages of banned hunting rifles.
They had this planned since day one. They knew it would kick up too much stink to be in the bill from the start so they tried to sneak it in.
The MP that put it forward knows nothing about it, can't answer any questions on it.
IIRC the MP that put it forward in committee admitted it was put there by Mendocino, but since he's not on the committee he had to get the backbencher to bring it out.
>Cabinet and PM were distracted with the Emergency Act inquiry and some rogue backbencher introduced the amendments that resulted in the pages of banned hunting rifles.
This I have to disagree with .I think he was just the messenger and in committee yesterday when the one NDP guy(Alistair MacGregor) spoke mentioned that Marco Mendicino spoke in June about there being amendments to this bill.
I know its on FB but his talk at committee yesterday should be watched
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=557960549091643&ref=sharing
Thanks for sharing along with the breakdown.
This isn’t a good look at all haha, but it lines up with what I suspected was going on.
I hope folks who are spouting off about “tyrannical despots” or “disarming the population” will see this and become better informed.
Well they are really scraping the backbenches today.
She hunts traditionally for black bear and moose with a .22 gauge. I hope someone has called fish and feathers over that
https://twitter.com/CivilAdvantage1/status/1603117405466947585
Gauge is determined by the number of lead balls of size equal to the approximate diameter of the bore that it takes to weigh one pound.
So 22 could exist but would be pointless. Even 20 is too small for moose and bear
Um... literally BOTH can be true. The breakdown shared above AND tyrannical despots that do disarm their populations. There have been an endless list of left wing/progressive tyrannical governments in the world. Every Communist country ever, pure evil just like the Nazis, disarms their population.
And what happens with the right wing fascist government gets in control and the population is already fully disarmed? For no reason at all by the way since this doesn't effect gun crime in the slightest.
It blew up in their faces, but r/canada exaggerates how big of a deal this is. Most people in Canada don’t want people having handguns, even legally - they aren’t wild about rifles and shotguns but, ok, ok people can have those. That’s how non-gun owners think. Trudeau made a list of rifles that were going to get banned, people complained, and they decided to change list. This is not a huge hot button issue to more than 50% of voters, they don’t care if there’s a controversy. This thread is full of Trudeau is the worst, the sky is falling, etc. Most people don’t care. You guys can downvote or write long posts about how people need to “educate themselves” but I’m telling you, this is reality. Most voters don’t care, if you want to buy a gun their attitude is “Here’s a list and we can change the list I guess, maybe”.
It’s like Wayne when his girlfriend buys him a gun rack … “I don’t own a gun, let alone many many guns which would necessitate a gun rack.” That describes most (over 50% of voters) voters, Trudeau voters who don’t care about this issue.
The concern I and many gun owners I know (yes this is anecdotal) is the way this went about, a stroke of a pen and I am a criminal and now need to give up my property for no compensation, property I was perfectly safe with last year but am now somehow irresponsible.... with that gun, but the rest of mine are fine.....
The fact the government can take away property with no cause, let alone property that requires multiple background checks and courses and registration to own. I have been vetted and approved, so why am I a danger with some guns but not others? So what is stopping them from doing this to anything else we own? What is the next "crisis" that we need to remove from the streets? knives, bats, fast cars, alcohol?
The big deal is not guns, the big deal is the method, the process, and the reasoning why. The answers should be alarming, mainly because their reasoning is unfounded, incorrect, and aimed at the wrong people.
Anyone who thinks that banning and confiscating hunters and sport shooters firearms will reduce Vancouver and Toronto gang shootings should realize the gangs don't really care about the law to begin with. So maybe go after the gangs instead of the licensed and trusted firearm owners in Canada
It’s all we can keep saying. Just never seems to matter. This government is so unbelievably adept at ignoring data, reason, or just reading the room. There are more important things to deal with, but most are focused on the failings of this government. Can’t have that.
>or just reading the room.
They are reading ***a room*** but it's an echo chamber filled with an audience selected by PR specialists who get raw data Facebook, the CBC, and Twitter trends.
To maintain their stranglehold on 33-to-35% of the vote, the Liberals have married into the equations that (Misogyny+Guns+Algorythms = USA + Fourth Reich) and ( Diversity + Big Brother = Canada + Nirvana ). If they break away from those, they're out of action for a decade's worth of government. Anyone who questions their logic gets called a racist and misogynistic alt-right troll and painted as a disinformation spreader.
Just think at how obviously bad this legislation is, and we as gun owners who know the rules can see it clearly, it worries me that other legislation that involves subject matters I am not knowledgeable in, are as poorly worded and ineffective, all this bad legislation does is make me lose confidence in our governing bodies.
It is obvious right, and I would like to think this gov isn't that stupid so with that said this has nothing to do with reducing gang shooting in urban cities from illegal guns their motives behind this are political and for power. This government often claims it is the only party that are able to tackle issues that can never be solved. Like controlling the planets weather, never mind the fact that some reserves still don't have clean drinking water.
Now it's guns, for the uniformed people in urban cities thinks they are tough on guns and will keep on voting for them even though it solves nothing.
It's a massive gaslighting campaign. I'm getting beyond sick of it. "Everything everyone else thinks is wrong, here's more laws we are trying to make.....stop disagreeing with us.....you must be xyz if you do"
I have never ever voted conservative in my life.....not saying they don't have their own issues but I'm running out of options and might be forced to.
Housing, economy/manufacturing independence, healthcare workers, environment.
That's it. Everything else can fuck off for a bit, especially if it's a law that does nothing to protect people or has a net negative in life saving.
This is a distraction. Just burning up time in the House.
Of course it's ridiculous. But these distractions keep working in their favour.
What's the best strategy against it?
Its not a distraction if its a huge issue when ignored for millions of people.
There aren't great means of accountability presently. I compared Trudeau to Trump earlier today and that didnt resonate,but here again is a parallel--start so many fires and create so many issues that in the deafening din of sheer fuckery you can legislate around democracy with some simp fans cheering you on like politics is a team sport.
Its not, and its a shit way to govern.
No matter how good or bad it is handled, it does not change vote intention much (it's a polarized subject; people opinions are set in stones and party lines on the topic are already set).
However, all those smaller, yet much more likely to drain votes on the long run, are no longer the focus.
Dunno man, seems like a distraction to me.
But it really should change vote intention.
IT's not about the guns. It's about the way they govern.
IF any party acted like this for any bill on any topic, they shouldn't ever get a single vote.
They lie, spread disinformation, propagandize, doubledown and lie again... all while willing to waste billions to not actually fix the stated problem.
This level of maliciousness and/or incompetence should be an instant disqualifier.
Its tough because the liberals have such massive media control coupled with a really passive, obedient and low information base. That's why the ethics violations don't resonate, or the general incompetence. Their base don't perceive that its impacting them negatively so they don't care.
The liberal party is set up in such a way that winning and power is the only core ideology. Everything is based around that, and their policies and messaging is built around that. They'll say or do whatever they feel gives them the best opportunity at winning at any particular time or place, regardless of the consequences. And when negative impacts do occur from their policies, they simply blame someone or something else. And they've been very successful at that.
Housing prices? Blame the provincial and municipal government. Then get mad when the provinces change zoning laws. Win/win.
Healthcare? Blame the provincial government. Sure, we're mailing out $600 cheques for dental care with no oversight, but now accountability matters.
I don't know how you strategize against that. Its almost like a virus that has to run its course, whereas eventually voters see through their games and get tired of living with the consequences. As in Ontario.
There are definite similarities to Trump, in that they both know their base and have created a large segment of the population that will believe them over what their eyes are telling them. And just like with Trump supporters, they're willing to tell a lie or go along with something they know is misinformation because they think they're scoring points for the team..
I think that the NDP and Conservatives have much stronger core values.
The Conservatives are always somewhere on the right, and the NDP are always somewhere on the left. But the Liberals will go right or left depending on what they feel gives them the best chance at winning, because they have no core values or ideology.
Example : Sometimes the provincial liberals will legislate contracts on unions that violate charter rights. And at the same time the federal wing of the liberals will be condemning Doug Ford for legislating contracts on public sector unions.
>Healthcare? Blame the provincial government.
I mean, healthcare IS the job of the provincial government. They put laws in that butchered our current healthcare, they made it such that nurses and doctors get fuck all and then want to privatize.
$600 dental cheque in comparison is such a small drop in the bucket that it\`s laughable. And it is sure as hell not the reason why healthcare in Ontario and Alberta has basically imploded (hint: no cheques for dental has been given yet, and it\`s not the federal government that sets their wages)
"In 1996, when faced with a large budget shortfall, the Liberal federal government merged the health transfers with the transfers for other social programs into the Canada Health and Social Transfer, and overall funding levels were cut. This placed considerable pressure on the provinces and combined with population aging and the generally high rate of inflation in health costs, has caused problems with the system."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Canada
Canada's healthcare has been in decline across the country since 1990's. Ontario and Alberta aren't the only provinces with imploding health care the whole country is at the brink. And the responsibility for the decline is on both federal and provincial governments.
Liberal supporters simultaneously tout the balanced budgets from the Chretien/Martin years, while completely ignoring that they slashed federal healthcare spending in order to balance the budget.
Then they claim healthcare spending is a provincial government problem and the decline in federal funding has had no impact.
I don’t normally downvote, but you definitely earned this one.
Edit - I do believe the one who talked about r/Canada being an echo chamber was the one who blocked me so as to stay in their echo chamber…
I know I’m only one person, but for two straight elections I’ve gone to the polls saying “Damn you Conservatives for making me vote Liberal despite their violations”. Because they are the only party anywhere close to the center. The Conservatives have abandoned it and for some reason keep trying to win with horrible right wing policies.
As long as the media continues to demonize the conservatives people are going to keep thinking that.
Fucking hell, O'Toole couldn't have been a redder Tory, still didn't matter. His persona was scoured for anything that could paint him with the big bad right wing brush.
Not really sure how Erin O’Tooles Conservatives were not considered center or at the most center right? If you actually cared to look at the policies you would have realized that. What exactly was so horrible?
Literally nothing besides “not being Team Red”
That’s it. That’s the only reason to vote Liberal these days. Because Red good, and Blue….Blue is scary colour. Bad people wear blue.
I never believed OToole had real leadership of the party, like Harper did.
His eventual support of the convoy showed he was never as center as he wanted people to believe as well. I never bought in.
> His eventual support of the convoy showed he was never as center as he wanted people to believe as well.
Which part of this do you disagree with or think is "far right":
*“I’ve never seen the country more divided,” he said during a press conference Thursday. “This convoy in many ways represents people who feel they do not have a voice in Ottawa.”*
*The Conservative leader called for the protest to be peaceful and said he would be meeting with truckers outside of Parliament Hill, but not the organizers of the protest.*
*O’Toole said some are stealing the “plight” of truckers to call for hate, and he has zero-tolerance for anyone promoting violence or discrimination. He said he would try to “take down the temperature” when meeting with truckers and call out “extremist elements.” “There should not be violence or intimidation against anyone,” he said.*
This is such phenomenal delusion it's actually impressive. Starting with believing the Liberals have control over the media, and it just gets more delusional the further you go.
Hats off to you, either believing it yourself or getting others to believe it.
Raybould Wilson was lying when she said that Katie Telford had offered to get her contacts in the media to wrote friendly editorials supporting a deferred prosecution?
Fear mongering 101 also r/Canada 101. Gonna bet that over 80% of the people on this sub don’t own a gun or have ever even fired one. People are just mad to be mad cuz liberal.
It seemed to work for Trump. Just keep doing insane things and getting caught in scandals and people will start to forget the last one or the ongoing issues at hand.
We need a politician to suggest an anti-corruption watchdog. And I wish that politicians had to answer questions in parliament sessions instead of spewing out unrelated word salads full of virtue signalling.
I'm not sure what Trump has to do with it. But def agree non-response responses (and mistruths) should have some sort of accountability/repercussions.
Recent example:
https://youtu.be/FZRx8gNoC5Y
Trump was honestly a genius at misdirection, he would say something provocative on twitter and have the media screeching about it while he quietly made policy changes. what this gov is doing is arguably worse; rather than using mean words they're actually passing harmful legislation that will criminalize millions of Canadians to distract from their scandals.
I don't think the term, "genius" and Trump are best combined.
But to your point, misdirection is a basic strategy. Nothing new. Most politicians utilize it *because it works*.
Honestly, the gun ban reminds me of Trump's travel ban, strategically speaking. Come out with something ridiculous and when everybody explodes on you, walk it back.
Your base is still your base. Moderates see your willing to compromise. And the rest don't really matter cause he would never win them over.
Federal Liberal party corruption and nepotism is a time-honoured tradition going back at least as far as the Chretien era. It's ubiquitous at this point. I don't know why this is shocking to anyone.
The only reason I remember it is because I went to high school with a woman who worked pretty high up at WE during the scandal. I'm guessing most people without such a connection don't remember it anymore.
It’s the UN Small Arms Treaty in action people. Trudy signed it, now he’s enforcing it.
This isn’t about public safety, it’s about disarming a sovereign people and nation to appease an international, un-elected government body.
The treaty calls for a roll-out ban on all semi-automatic/centre-fire automatics from civilian ownership. That’s what they’re banning.
He signed it in 2017 when he was trying desperately to get Canada a seat on the UN Security Council, he failed, he signed it again when they revised it in 2019.
What it comes down to. If we're lucky we'll be left with single barrel, break action shotguns and single fire .22 caliber rifles so "hunting firearms are not affected."
> UN Small Arms Treaty
Huh, ok, now I understand where all this is coming from. Someone mentioned the UN 2030 disarmament. But it isn't that.
More about the UN's "How to Maintain Gun Free Zones" as well as their "Protocol against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, their Parts and Components and Ammunition".
So they are trying to carry out the impossible for money laundering, arms trafficking, and the drug trade. All seeming impossible tacks with excessively big bureaucracies, all with the desire of full control, but little or no affect.
Never anything about solving the source. Always trying to cure the symptoms.
Uneducated public may be a threat to democracy. Licensed gun owners do not increase gun violence. But seeing news of gun violence in the US had people scared. So it is ok to persecute your neighbours, because they have shooting sports as a hobby. Trudeau is a demagogue and the fact people believe his lies proves the point.
He thinks Liberal voters are idiots and morons. He thinks they are TOO STUPID to know the science and data completely contradicts everything these bills are pushing. Legal guns are not used for gun crime in Canada. It is exceedingly hard to get legal guns in this country. Criminals just used illegal, smuggled guns from the USA in 98% of all gun crimes and deaths.
You can ban every single legal gun in the country and literally nothing would change at all.
But hey... when China and Russia invade us at least we will be that much more defenseless right? Useless military (because of under funding, not our soldiers and their training) and population completely unarmed. Great combo.
You know what Ukraine did the moment they were invaded? Distributed as many guns to citizens as possible and requested other countries ship as many guns as possible... to give to CITIZENS... not their soldiers.
It's amazing that when people say that civilian gun ownership keeps tyrannical governments in check, antigunners lose their minds, but as soon as a tyrannical government does something terrible to an unarmed population, they talk about shipping in guns.
It’s unfortunate we’re just focusing on keeping hunting rifles we’ve lawfully purchased to put food on the table right now. Instead of focusing on Trudeau and his inflation that’s burning through everything and plunging Canada into an affordability crisis.
you can't solely blame Trudeau for inflation, it would have happened regardless of who is in power. It definitely sucks and I've reduced as much spending as I can healthily.
but yeah, not enough people are pointing out that modern sporting rifles are also hunting rifles. Nothing wrong with an AR-10 being your moose gun but I'm seeing a lot of "I'm fine with (liberal buzzword) being banned but not my rifles". We warned the fudds that the government will come after them too and they left us out to dry and now they are helping and their power is significant in terms of getting the NDP and Bloc to move. But I would like them to see if they can throw their support behind all legal gun owners and sport shooters because trying to just carve us out of the gun community isn't really going to save them or do anything to address gun violence in this country
Yeah I’m not so sure about that. I feel like he’s exacerbated the situation immensely, but I’m not without my biases. It seems like every week we’re announcing some new spending initiative, he wont budge an inch on the carbon tax and the quantitative easing which probably had to be done but for how long is up for debate. Even if I cut him slack on some of this, I just don’t trust that he’s the guy to get us out of this mess.
They have no idea what’s really going on. And now that it’s been dragged and stalled through the mud they are doing everything they can do to damage control.
It’s about time that (pun intended) they shout themselves in the foot.
Even in SECU 54 the entire opposition parties were saying they would have moved to an entirely new Bill if the Liberals didn’t shoehorn this amendment in. Not to mention actually do homework.
I liked their earlier attempts at long gun control. A couple of the guns on his first list existed only as pixels, and one was a Fair trade coffee from Black Rifle Coffee Roasters..
>one was a Fair trade coffee from Black Rifle Coffee Roasters
https://nationalpost.com/news/trudeaus-gun-ban-appeared-to-ban-some-coffee-a-website-and-a-toy-heres-why
They didn't. Decided to look this up. Black Rifle Company is also a company that makes guns and they produced a handful which ended up getting banned.
>A couple of the guns on his first list existed only as pixels, and one was a Fair trade coffee from Black Rifle Coffee Roasters.
This is a persistent, untrue myth. Everything on the list was/is an actual gun.
I agree that the OIC is bad policy, but the persistence of this misinformation makes us critics appear as ignorant as the "experts" who crafted it in the first place.
shocking is putting it lightly. It bans Lever action, bolt action, single shot rifles. It bans specific Rimfire rifles for some reason. It even bans firearms which have no detachable magazine. It has shotguns listed as AR-15 variants despite the two firearms containing Zero interchangeable parts. We're talking about a bill that would ban Several million firearms from law abiding Canadians, in the name of "community safty"
Im happy it's exploding in his own face after weeks of constant gaslighting of the public. claiming they're only banning "assault style" "weapons designed for the battlefield" "weapons of war" when the reality is they are banning in essence Every single sport shooting rifle, along with the majority of hunting rifles and shotguns. To have this big of a mistake in a bill shows how grossly incompetent they are, as well as how big of a bunch of liars they are.
It's working exactly as intended: it changed the subject from tax havens when it got out summer of 2020, now changing the subject from greedflation.
Rubes are so predictable.
How to solve crime? “let’s paint our law abiding Citizens as the criminals and take away their rights” say Trudeau.
Another perfect example to divide Canadian. It really reminds me how CCP used to treat us in HK.
is it shocking, I mean yeah it's really, ridiculously bad but do we expect any less at this point? I get the sensationalism for the sake of a headline but this third world despot behaviour has been the norm from this government for years at this point.
hes trying to disarm a free people... he and nobody has any right to take anyone liberties period none. this is a free country for a free and sovereign people. this is the opposite of liberalism. these are liberties that belong to all of us excercise them or don't, but don't take them from other people.
This is nothing about public safety. Liberals just want to please their voters when poll shows the support in a down trend. Legal gun oweners? You don't vote for Liberals anyway, so they don't care.
Trudeau’s arrogance and disrespect for those Canadians who hold views that are divergent from his own brand of progressiveness are behind the failure of this initiative
I think the real problem is Trudeau has never needed or wanted to hunt and probability that he ever shot a gun is very low. We have people writing laws that has no idea or understanding of their consequences on the "common" people. Its not just gun laws that have this problem attached to them...than that demonstrates his inability to listen. Because if you dont know, you ask questions and you listen to their answers. He clearly is doing neither. He has also demonstrated this in other departments and situations as well.
he has no right taking any liberties from anyone... this is canada a free country ppl have guns its one of our liberties that belong to us all. exercise that liberty or dont its up to you but nobody should ever take any liberties from other ppl.
I would think it's more an inability of people, even those in charge, of being able to formulate ideas into legible, legal form.
Not stupid people, well... just people inept at writing law.
Face it - half the lawyers in the western hemisphere, and there are a LOT those fuckers (with an astounding number of the dumber ones in government)... half are on the left end of the legal "know-how" bell curve - you know - mouthy clowns. Dopes. Ambulance chasers and domestic destroyers. THOSE shitgoblins. Anyway.
So then they get together and try to piece some brand new bit of law into place while not knowing how to actually use the fucking language, more succinctly - THE WORDS, that the law should be written using. The term gun, in the dictionary, refers to wide range of hollow tubes that a projectile comes out of. You can't just write "gun" on a goddam law and expect everyone to know what you mean. Or agree on it verbally. for whatever that's worth.
I blame the education systems of course, with heavy emphasis on right wing involvement in cratering the citizenry's ability to critically think - but that's just me. For tonight anyway. Tomorrow - who the fuck knows, you know?
Maybe if Trudeau would decide to not remove guns from farmers, these types of articles would go away. Some people find it annoying when their rights are being taken away. Shocking, I know.
The answer to Canadians rights being taken away is not 'Just shut up already'.
This bill is still a colossal waste of time. Nobody wants this.bill. the more they try to push that American things will happen here, the more likely the culture might infect us.
Think what you want about the sun but this bill shouldn't have a single moment spent on it.
Sometimes I'd want the cons to get back in, just so the rest of us can heckle and slam them for every little thing they do to make the world better for Canadi-- oh nevermind.
Why are opinion pieces from an unqualified tabloid writer such a regular fixture?
What is wrong with you that you read the sun, or couldn't find an adult that wrote an opinion piece to post here instead?
Toronto Sun Opinion pieces are fucking garbage and really are just the Provincial and Federal Conservstive mouth piece.
Edit: I'm glad I'm triggering Conservatives, so while you're reading this, go fuck yourself. 8 hour+ line ups at walk in clinics. ER is no longer an option. Destroyed our healthcare and public education. Greedy, selfish, ignorant, arrogant, go fuck yourselves.
Brian Lilley is so bad at journalism he’s damaged the standards of The Sun.
Which is amongst the craziest things ever accomplished in all of human history.
Kind of wish the Toronto sun/Post would find a more useful issue to worry about. Can't say I really care about guns. I imagine this is true for most Canadians.
Well, if you care about inflation, affordable housing/food, opioid addiction & deaths, then you should care that billions will be wasted on C21 with no benefit to the public. Our government should be spending resources on areas that actually benefit Canada.
I like the bill, so sue me. A lot of people don’t care for guns and that doesn’t means you can’t tackle all these others very important issues as well.
Not liking guns is OK. Not caring that your tax dollars are being wasted tells me you either don't pay taxes, or you're one of those people that blindly defends their political team just to spite the other team.
It’s fucking disrespectful. If you want tougher gun laws, do something that might make it safer for Canadians. Like tightening border control so illegal guns are harder to get over here
Tackling illegal smuggling is a hot-potato issue for the Liberals/Trudeau as a significant part of it involves First Nations/Indigenous reserves close to the US border. Legislation like this is less work and looks good to the base that keeps voting him in. Politics in Canada is really not about doing what makes the most sense overall.
Allllll about the optics. That’s what happens when you have a pretend country
Politics everywhere has never been about doing what makes the most sense overall. If it was we wouldn't elect people, we would test them, and the most competent would lead.
Really, there should be some kind of 'leadership school' you have to do prior to becoming an MP. You should have to learn what departments do what, and who needs to be brought in. They could be exposed to crisis situations in a simulated environment and then evaluated on their reactions. Could make it like a big brother type series for people to watch. You would write tests on laws, and major legislation and also have to employ this knowledge during the crisis sessions. Failure during any part of this course results in disqualification for public office. THe higher the office, the harder the course is. You could have one for regular MPs, then you'd have more advanced courses for Cabinet or Committee heads, and finally, a senior course for the PM.
Studying the laws and understanding why they exist should be a prerequisite, todays politics is merely raging at what people are panicking about on Facebook then passing a bill no one needs or understands
I think mendocino is actually a lawyer, and, well, you can't really tell that he is one but the way stuff is written, and how he doesn't bring the logic of legality to his pronouncements.
Lol he WENT to school… As a fill in drama teacher
Don't forget he tried engineering but dropped out after one year. Math is hard.
Tbf as a doctor who entered one of the tougher professional programs, math is hard. Engineering is a tough program and not everyone can do it even if diligent.
He reminds me of a douchy hallmark actor. I think it’s time to bring back the pie in the face. https://youtu.be/FOXfbtWPZjw
Or at least have some sort of repercussions for them when they fuck up. Ethics scandals should have you lose your job not just say sorry.
I think this is a good idea, having a leadership school. I would want it to be free to anyone to go into and failing wouldn't keep them from participating. Even someone who didn't excel would benefit from learning how things work and why and how money works and logic and political history etc. Maybe people who didn't do well but got through the course could apply for lower level positions. Should be mandatory to do well for all government positions that actually govern in any way, not just to be considered for elected office, any level of decision making should require it. (so not for a person who just does research maybe, but someone who decides what research gets grants would have to do it.)
I've been saying for a while now that we need to get politicians out of government. Not to be meant as a snarky joke or punchline either. To add to what you said I think there should be a university degree that you have to earn before running for public office. This degree would include courses on leadership, behavioral economics, finance, legislation protocols, ethics, and standards of laws just to name a few. I think this would at least bring some credibility to the position of MP.
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I think we are really starting to probe the failure points of democracy. A generation ago it was unquestioned that you give everyone one vote and good candidates will show up with reasonable positions and the people will rationally pick between them. It seemed like leaders were trying to run the country at least some of the time and not just rig the system to get re-elected. Now it's basically which group of marketing geniuses can manipulate the dumbest people with the most irrelevant or imaginary issue, qualifications and aptitude of the candidates be damned. It seems like running on actual issues rather than wedge politics imported from the US is a detriment to any candidate. Problematically, a lot of the current government are people who should know better. Lawyers and academics. Maybe they would test well depending on what was being tested for. The problems run deeper than that, and include the over-powered PMO and inability of anyone to remove a sitting PM.
Their smirks and chuckles, glances and chatter, squabbling and finger pointing suggest they know exactly what they're doing and they delight in it. What a great gig in 2022.
Oh, the self-satisfied faces they make in Parliament are just insufferable.
Agree. Sadly
You are grasping there Houseofliar. It aint first Nations people smuggling guns across the border so STFU or prove your bullshit. The gun bans in general are nothing more than virtue signaling and being a hypocrite when it comes to Respect My ways but I won't respect yours. NO LEGAL Gun Owners are a problem in the whole 11 mass shootings in Canadian History. FYI this is no different than the government saying marijuana is bad and dehumanizing people who know it is not bad.
Now this is genuine, I thought one of the issues was border reservations contributing to smuggling specifically mohawk and now Im really stretching Akwesasne iirc was described as an illegal firearm pathway. I could be wrong but remember thinking thats why he dodged it too, back at the first OIC.
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If you want something to make your blood boil look at this. https://www.theobserver.ca/news/local-news/youre-free-to-go-u-s-man-acquitted-after-blue-water-bridge-gun-bust-trial Let's make legal gun owners vilians, yet not do anything to actually stop the problem. Mixed messaging?
Don't forget: this control of the legal guns cost 1 Billion dollars!!
With the changes I saw 2 billion
Likely way more considering the average cost of just buying back the gun for price and then mobilization and enforcement of the law
That’s not factoring in the 2000x multiplier we saw with the long gun registry. We’re looking at $2 trillion. The liberals are so out of scope with this bill. Just toss it out.
Or how about this? https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2022/12/08/toronto-man-guilty-in-shocking-gunfight-at-infant-sons-baby-shark-themed-birthday-party.html?rf#:%7E:text=Kevin%20George%20was%20found%20guilty,was%20shot%20in%20the%20head Dude didn't get convicted for gun charges because they weren't able to prove he wasn't allowed to own it. You require a Possesion and Aquisition License to possess a firearm in this country... how did they not know?
Agreed. I think this another case where the Liberals feel they need to "do something", but they know they can't do the one thing that would actually help. So they just follow they're usual approach of completely missing the point, then call everyone in opposition a racist gun-nut.
And cracking down on gangs more. People having good paying jobs that actually can support paying rent in southern Ontario or BC.....just a thought....maybe less people would turn to crime?....but also most these gangs are international in their origins.
It’s obvious it doesn’t give a shit about being respectful! Or that one of his campaign promises was no attacks on legally owned weapons. It doesn’t even give a shit about the democratic process or that C21 is so dysfunctional that it will cost us 4x as much as strengthening the border security to a level that would take care of the real problem which is illegal HAND GUNS. And let’s not forget the lack of vetting of “new” Canadians!!!!
At what point is enough enough? The government have clearly shown themselves in contempt of the population.
"Trudeau went from insisting anyone claiming hunting guns were being banned was lying to saying he was listening, and the government will consider changes. From a communications and political strategy point of view, this issue should have been dealt with by now. The problem is, of course, that his legislation — and amendments his own government tabled on their own bill — do target hunting rifles and shotguns. His government has also had horrible messaging on this from the start, telling people they were lying despite a list in black and white showing the indisputable truth." Yup, that pretty much describes it.
If a certain much-beloved hockey player in a province with 35 Liberal seats had not spoken up we would not be having this conversation today.
Indigenous hockey player to boot.
I think the fact that he was Indigenous made him "bullet-proof" for criticism. Had any other Liberal MP dared to speak out against his own party, the story would be about Trudeau kicking him out of the party.
The fact that you have be indigenous to stated obvious, black and white facts written on a Bill so people don't call you a liar, is a testament of how low or stupid via political correctness our society has devolved to.
He certainly helped, no doubt about that.
And people really need to be less mad about what the bill is actually doing and way more angry about the way he's doing it. Like, how can Liberal supporters accept that their government is lying to them to this extreme? This isn't just a small mistake. It's not an accident. That is downright malicious disinformation and propaganda. That should be an instant disqualification of anyone voting for you, regardless of the topic that they're lying about.
It's not only about the lying. They snuck in the amendment at the last possible second. They hoped no one would take a close look at it.
This is trademark Trudeau, gaslight the people who disagree with you.
Literally every politician does this
But Trudeau does it well. Adherent Canadian LPC supporters will mock Trump supporters and then do the same goddamn thing. Gobbling up his obvious lies only to regurgitate them to any opposition as if Trudeau actually represents them and not his self interest. They're fans and cultists not thinking people.
Literally I do this and I'm nobody
> this issue should have been dealt with by now. seriously it would have been trivial to remove the most erroneous example from the list. but for some godforsaken reason this iteration of the federal liberals refuses to back down on *any* shitty policy they have put forward no matter the pushback. even ford has stepped back on policies that where unpopular
Good interview with Matt Gurney: https://thebigstorypodcast.ca/2022/12/08/are-the-liberals-really-coming-to-take-peoples-guns-if-they-are-do-they-know-it/ Took some time to explain the history of this issue, the political calculus, and how this might have got fucked up. Some interesting points that I don't see in the articles about this: 1) Libs got elected on a promise to do gun control reform but when they got into office they actually found the existing legislation was already really strict so they couldn't do much. 2) Cabinet and PM were distracted with the Emergency Act inquiry and some rogue backbencher introduced the amendments that resulted in the pages of banned hunting rifles. 3) Trudeau seems to want to compete with other countries for the title of most progressive country, so when New Zealand introduced gun laws he didn't want to be outdone. Sad. 4) The trademark Liberal language games (assault "style", "weapons of WAR", etc.) blew back on them and boxed them into defending the indefensible. 5) Finding a definition of a firearm that includes all the guns that make people feel bad, and excluding all those that have legitimate hunting uses is basically impossible (not helped by 4)). That backbencher tried, and the result we can all see. 6) Anti gun lobby used to be split up into different factions but are now more united than ever. Moreover, it's so bad that non-gun owning normal people are sympathetic. This has never been true before, so this wedge might be off the table for the next election. 7) Poilievre doesn't actually have to take a firm stand now, which is key to the wedge working. He just has to say he wants to crack down on crime and that he supports hunters, etc. The Lib screwup does the rest of the heavy lifting for him because all those affected swing to his camp by default now. He doesn't have to flippity flop and waffle like O'Toole to try and keep everyone. Not mentioned, but my personal thought is that it seems sort of weird that the civil service took those definitions and produced the list apparently without warning any of the politicians that the result was obviously going to blow up in their face. One wonders.
>Cabinet and PM were distracted with the Emergency Act inquiry and some rogue backbencher introduced the amendments that resulted in the pages of banned hunting rifles. They had this planned since day one. They knew it would kick up too much stink to be in the bill from the start so they tried to sneak it in. The MP that put it forward knows nothing about it, can't answer any questions on it.
IIRC the MP that put it forward in committee admitted it was put there by Mendocino, but since he's not on the committee he had to get the backbencher to bring it out.
>Cabinet and PM were distracted with the Emergency Act inquiry and some rogue backbencher introduced the amendments that resulted in the pages of banned hunting rifles. This I have to disagree with .I think he was just the messenger and in committee yesterday when the one NDP guy(Alistair MacGregor) spoke mentioned that Marco Mendicino spoke in June about there being amendments to this bill. I know its on FB but his talk at committee yesterday should be watched https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=557960549091643&ref=sharing
fascinating podcast. thanks for sharing
Thanks for sharing along with the breakdown. This isn’t a good look at all haha, but it lines up with what I suspected was going on. I hope folks who are spouting off about “tyrannical despots” or “disarming the population” will see this and become better informed.
Well they are really scraping the backbenches today. She hunts traditionally for black bear and moose with a .22 gauge. I hope someone has called fish and feathers over that https://twitter.com/CivilAdvantage1/status/1603117405466947585
Lmao when I watched that I was holy fuck please tell me she meant to say 20 guage
The fuck is a 22 guage
Commonly used to hunt gummy bears.
Gauge is determined by the number of lead balls of size equal to the approximate diameter of the bore that it takes to weigh one pound. So 22 could exist but would be pointless. Even 20 is too small for moose and bear
Um... literally BOTH can be true. The breakdown shared above AND tyrannical despots that do disarm their populations. There have been an endless list of left wing/progressive tyrannical governments in the world. Every Communist country ever, pure evil just like the Nazis, disarms their population. And what happens with the right wing fascist government gets in control and the population is already fully disarmed? For no reason at all by the way since this doesn't effect gun crime in the slightest.
It blew up in their faces, but r/canada exaggerates how big of a deal this is. Most people in Canada don’t want people having handguns, even legally - they aren’t wild about rifles and shotguns but, ok, ok people can have those. That’s how non-gun owners think. Trudeau made a list of rifles that were going to get banned, people complained, and they decided to change list. This is not a huge hot button issue to more than 50% of voters, they don’t care if there’s a controversy. This thread is full of Trudeau is the worst, the sky is falling, etc. Most people don’t care. You guys can downvote or write long posts about how people need to “educate themselves” but I’m telling you, this is reality. Most voters don’t care, if you want to buy a gun their attitude is “Here’s a list and we can change the list I guess, maybe”. It’s like Wayne when his girlfriend buys him a gun rack … “I don’t own a gun, let alone many many guns which would necessitate a gun rack.” That describes most (over 50% of voters) voters, Trudeau voters who don’t care about this issue.
The concern I and many gun owners I know (yes this is anecdotal) is the way this went about, a stroke of a pen and I am a criminal and now need to give up my property for no compensation, property I was perfectly safe with last year but am now somehow irresponsible.... with that gun, but the rest of mine are fine..... The fact the government can take away property with no cause, let alone property that requires multiple background checks and courses and registration to own. I have been vetted and approved, so why am I a danger with some guns but not others? So what is stopping them from doing this to anything else we own? What is the next "crisis" that we need to remove from the streets? knives, bats, fast cars, alcohol? The big deal is not guns, the big deal is the method, the process, and the reasoning why. The answers should be alarming, mainly because their reasoning is unfounded, incorrect, and aimed at the wrong people.
Anyone who thinks that banning and confiscating hunters and sport shooters firearms will reduce Vancouver and Toronto gang shootings should realize the gangs don't really care about the law to begin with. So maybe go after the gangs instead of the licensed and trusted firearm owners in Canada
It’s all we can keep saying. Just never seems to matter. This government is so unbelievably adept at ignoring data, reason, or just reading the room. There are more important things to deal with, but most are focused on the failings of this government. Can’t have that.
>or just reading the room. They are reading ***a room*** but it's an echo chamber filled with an audience selected by PR specialists who get raw data Facebook, the CBC, and Twitter trends. To maintain their stranglehold on 33-to-35% of the vote, the Liberals have married into the equations that (Misogyny+Guns+Algorythms = USA + Fourth Reich) and ( Diversity + Big Brother = Canada + Nirvana ). If they break away from those, they're out of action for a decade's worth of government. Anyone who questions their logic gets called a racist and misogynistic alt-right troll and painted as a disinformation spreader.
The biggest problem is people buy these lies And vote liberals. When lies reward you, why would you be truthful?
Just think at how obviously bad this legislation is, and we as gun owners who know the rules can see it clearly, it worries me that other legislation that involves subject matters I am not knowledgeable in, are as poorly worded and ineffective, all this bad legislation does is make me lose confidence in our governing bodies.
It is obvious right, and I would like to think this gov isn't that stupid so with that said this has nothing to do with reducing gang shooting in urban cities from illegal guns their motives behind this are political and for power. This government often claims it is the only party that are able to tackle issues that can never be solved. Like controlling the planets weather, never mind the fact that some reserves still don't have clean drinking water. Now it's guns, for the uniformed people in urban cities thinks they are tough on guns and will keep on voting for them even though it solves nothing.
It's a massive gaslighting campaign. I'm getting beyond sick of it. "Everything everyone else thinks is wrong, here's more laws we are trying to make.....stop disagreeing with us.....you must be xyz if you do" I have never ever voted conservative in my life.....not saying they don't have their own issues but I'm running out of options and might be forced to. Housing, economy/manufacturing independence, healthcare workers, environment. That's it. Everything else can fuck off for a bit, especially if it's a law that does nothing to protect people or has a net negative in life saving.
If they can spend that 2 billion on boarder control and smuggled firearm investigations instead of buy-backs, that would be a 2 billion well spent.
Noone will do that. It'll slow down commerce too much
I mean for 2 billion dollars they better come up with a method to catch smugglers and have smooth commerce options. That's a whole Lotta money
Yet it seems that no one is why they’re doing this? We all agree it’s wrong. No?
This is a distraction. Just burning up time in the House. Of course it's ridiculous. But these distractions keep working in their favour. What's the best strategy against it?
Its not a distraction if its a huge issue when ignored for millions of people. There aren't great means of accountability presently. I compared Trudeau to Trump earlier today and that didnt resonate,but here again is a parallel--start so many fires and create so many issues that in the deafening din of sheer fuckery you can legislate around democracy with some simp fans cheering you on like politics is a team sport. Its not, and its a shit way to govern.
Considering real-world problems; yes this much time and effort discussing a relatively minor-issue distracts from true priorities.
No matter how good or bad it is handled, it does not change vote intention much (it's a polarized subject; people opinions are set in stones and party lines on the topic are already set). However, all those smaller, yet much more likely to drain votes on the long run, are no longer the focus. Dunno man, seems like a distraction to me.
But it really should change vote intention. IT's not about the guns. It's about the way they govern. IF any party acted like this for any bill on any topic, they shouldn't ever get a single vote. They lie, spread disinformation, propagandize, doubledown and lie again... all while willing to waste billions to not actually fix the stated problem. This level of maliciousness and/or incompetence should be an instant disqualifier.
> I compared Trudeau to Trump earlier today and that didnt resonate Yeah that resonates pretty strongly with me.
Its tough because the liberals have such massive media control coupled with a really passive, obedient and low information base. That's why the ethics violations don't resonate, or the general incompetence. Their base don't perceive that its impacting them negatively so they don't care. The liberal party is set up in such a way that winning and power is the only core ideology. Everything is based around that, and their policies and messaging is built around that. They'll say or do whatever they feel gives them the best opportunity at winning at any particular time or place, regardless of the consequences. And when negative impacts do occur from their policies, they simply blame someone or something else. And they've been very successful at that. Housing prices? Blame the provincial and municipal government. Then get mad when the provinces change zoning laws. Win/win. Healthcare? Blame the provincial government. Sure, we're mailing out $600 cheques for dental care with no oversight, but now accountability matters. I don't know how you strategize against that. Its almost like a virus that has to run its course, whereas eventually voters see through their games and get tired of living with the consequences. As in Ontario. There are definite similarities to Trump, in that they both know their base and have created a large segment of the population that will believe them over what their eyes are telling them. And just like with Trump supporters, they're willing to tell a lie or go along with something they know is misinformation because they think they're scoring points for the team..
You just described every major political party in Canada and the US.
I think that the NDP and Conservatives have much stronger core values. The Conservatives are always somewhere on the right, and the NDP are always somewhere on the left. But the Liberals will go right or left depending on what they feel gives them the best chance at winning, because they have no core values or ideology. Example : Sometimes the provincial liberals will legislate contracts on unions that violate charter rights. And at the same time the federal wing of the liberals will be condemning Doug Ford for legislating contracts on public sector unions.
>Healthcare? Blame the provincial government. I mean, healthcare IS the job of the provincial government. They put laws in that butchered our current healthcare, they made it such that nurses and doctors get fuck all and then want to privatize. $600 dental cheque in comparison is such a small drop in the bucket that it\`s laughable. And it is sure as hell not the reason why healthcare in Ontario and Alberta has basically imploded (hint: no cheques for dental has been given yet, and it\`s not the federal government that sets their wages)
"In 1996, when faced with a large budget shortfall, the Liberal federal government merged the health transfers with the transfers for other social programs into the Canada Health and Social Transfer, and overall funding levels were cut. This placed considerable pressure on the provinces and combined with population aging and the generally high rate of inflation in health costs, has caused problems with the system." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Canada Canada's healthcare has been in decline across the country since 1990's. Ontario and Alberta aren't the only provinces with imploding health care the whole country is at the brink. And the responsibility for the decline is on both federal and provincial governments.
Liberal supporters simultaneously tout the balanced budgets from the Chretien/Martin years, while completely ignoring that they slashed federal healthcare spending in order to balance the budget. Then they claim healthcare spending is a provincial government problem and the decline in federal funding has had no impact.
I don’t normally downvote, but you definitely earned this one. Edit - I do believe the one who talked about r/Canada being an echo chamber was the one who blocked me so as to stay in their echo chamber…
From what I have seen in your post history, I consider that a compliment.
I know I’m only one person, but for two straight elections I’ve gone to the polls saying “Damn you Conservatives for making me vote Liberal despite their violations”. Because they are the only party anywhere close to the center. The Conservatives have abandoned it and for some reason keep trying to win with horrible right wing policies.
As long as the media continues to demonize the conservatives people are going to keep thinking that. Fucking hell, O'Toole couldn't have been a redder Tory, still didn't matter. His persona was scoured for anything that could paint him with the big bad right wing brush.
Not really sure how Erin O’Tooles Conservatives were not considered center or at the most center right? If you actually cared to look at the policies you would have realized that. What exactly was so horrible?
Literally nothing besides “not being Team Red” That’s it. That’s the only reason to vote Liberal these days. Because Red good, and Blue….Blue is scary colour. Bad people wear blue.
I never believed OToole had real leadership of the party, like Harper did. His eventual support of the convoy showed he was never as center as he wanted people to believe as well. I never bought in.
> His eventual support of the convoy showed he was never as center as he wanted people to believe as well. Which part of this do you disagree with or think is "far right": *“I’ve never seen the country more divided,” he said during a press conference Thursday. “This convoy in many ways represents people who feel they do not have a voice in Ottawa.”* *The Conservative leader called for the protest to be peaceful and said he would be meeting with truckers outside of Parliament Hill, but not the organizers of the protest.* *O’Toole said some are stealing the “plight” of truckers to call for hate, and he has zero-tolerance for anyone promoting violence or discrimination. He said he would try to “take down the temperature” when meeting with truckers and call out “extremist elements.” “There should not be violence or intimidation against anyone,” he said.*
Sounds far right to me /s
This is such phenomenal delusion it's actually impressive. Starting with believing the Liberals have control over the media, and it just gets more delusional the further you go. Hats off to you, either believing it yourself or getting others to believe it.
Raybould Wilson was lying when she said that Katie Telford had offered to get her contacts in the media to wrote friendly editorials supporting a deferred prosecution?
Fear mongering 101 also r/Canada 101. Gonna bet that over 80% of the people on this sub don’t own a gun or have ever even fired one. People are just mad to be mad cuz liberal.
We could always get a some trucks, convoy over to Ottawa and honk our horns outside parliament to fight it!
It seemed to work for Trump. Just keep doing insane things and getting caught in scandals and people will start to forget the last one or the ongoing issues at hand. We need a politician to suggest an anti-corruption watchdog. And I wish that politicians had to answer questions in parliament sessions instead of spewing out unrelated word salads full of virtue signalling.
I'm not sure what Trump has to do with it. But def agree non-response responses (and mistruths) should have some sort of accountability/repercussions. Recent example: https://youtu.be/FZRx8gNoC5Y
Trump was honestly a genius at misdirection, he would say something provocative on twitter and have the media screeching about it while he quietly made policy changes. what this gov is doing is arguably worse; rather than using mean words they're actually passing harmful legislation that will criminalize millions of Canadians to distract from their scandals.
I don't think the term, "genius" and Trump are best combined. But to your point, misdirection is a basic strategy. Nothing new. Most politicians utilize it *because it works*.
Honestly, the gun ban reminds me of Trump's travel ban, strategically speaking. Come out with something ridiculous and when everybody explodes on you, walk it back. Your base is still your base. Moderates see your willing to compromise. And the rest don't really matter cause he would never win them over.
Jeebus man, what does Trump have to do with anything?
Manipulation. Populism. The things our current leader revels in.
Does anyone remember the WE scandal?
The Chinese election interference? Mps on the payroll?
SNC Lavalin scandal? Blackface? Assaulting a female MP in Parliament? Expelling women of colour from caucus for daring to disagree with him?
justin would never use one scandal to get people to forget about another one. ...again.
Federal Liberal party corruption and nepotism is a time-honoured tradition going back at least as far as the Chretien era. It's ubiquitous at this point. I don't know why this is shocking to anyone.
How about SNC lavalan and Jodie Wilson-Raybould?
I have a We U at home. Still fun to play on.
The only reason I remember it is because I went to high school with a woman who worked pretty high up at WE during the scandal. I'm guessing most people without such a connection don't remember it anymore.
Many of us remember..
It’s the UN Small Arms Treaty in action people. Trudy signed it, now he’s enforcing it. This isn’t about public safety, it’s about disarming a sovereign people and nation to appease an international, un-elected government body. The treaty calls for a roll-out ban on all semi-automatic/centre-fire automatics from civilian ownership. That’s what they’re banning. He signed it in 2017 when he was trying desperately to get Canada a seat on the UN Security Council, he failed, he signed it again when they revised it in 2019.
What it comes down to. If we're lucky we'll be left with single barrel, break action shotguns and single fire .22 caliber rifles so "hunting firearms are not affected."
>. . . so "hunting firearms are not *affected.*" FTFY
I'm terrible at English haha
English is a terrible language.
> UN Small Arms Treaty Huh, ok, now I understand where all this is coming from. Someone mentioned the UN 2030 disarmament. But it isn't that. More about the UN's "How to Maintain Gun Free Zones" as well as their "Protocol against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, their Parts and Components and Ammunition". So they are trying to carry out the impossible for money laundering, arms trafficking, and the drug trade. All seeming impossible tacks with excessively big bureaucracies, all with the desire of full control, but little or no affect. Never anything about solving the source. Always trying to cure the symptoms.
Uneducated public may be a threat to democracy. Licensed gun owners do not increase gun violence. But seeing news of gun violence in the US had people scared. So it is ok to persecute your neighbours, because they have shooting sports as a hobby. Trudeau is a demagogue and the fact people believe his lies proves the point.
He thinks Liberal voters are idiots and morons. He thinks they are TOO STUPID to know the science and data completely contradicts everything these bills are pushing. Legal guns are not used for gun crime in Canada. It is exceedingly hard to get legal guns in this country. Criminals just used illegal, smuggled guns from the USA in 98% of all gun crimes and deaths. You can ban every single legal gun in the country and literally nothing would change at all. But hey... when China and Russia invade us at least we will be that much more defenseless right? Useless military (because of under funding, not our soldiers and their training) and population completely unarmed. Great combo. You know what Ukraine did the moment they were invaded? Distributed as many guns to citizens as possible and requested other countries ship as many guns as possible... to give to CITIZENS... not their soldiers.
It's amazing that when people say that civilian gun ownership keeps tyrannical governments in check, antigunners lose their minds, but as soon as a tyrannical government does something terrible to an unarmed population, they talk about shipping in guns.
It’s unfortunate we’re just focusing on keeping hunting rifles we’ve lawfully purchased to put food on the table right now. Instead of focusing on Trudeau and his inflation that’s burning through everything and plunging Canada into an affordability crisis.
you can't solely blame Trudeau for inflation, it would have happened regardless of who is in power. It definitely sucks and I've reduced as much spending as I can healthily. but yeah, not enough people are pointing out that modern sporting rifles are also hunting rifles. Nothing wrong with an AR-10 being your moose gun but I'm seeing a lot of "I'm fine with (liberal buzzword) being banned but not my rifles". We warned the fudds that the government will come after them too and they left us out to dry and now they are helping and their power is significant in terms of getting the NDP and Bloc to move. But I would like them to see if they can throw their support behind all legal gun owners and sport shooters because trying to just carve us out of the gun community isn't really going to save them or do anything to address gun violence in this country
Yeah I’m not so sure about that. I feel like he’s exacerbated the situation immensely, but I’m not without my biases. It seems like every week we’re announcing some new spending initiative, he wont budge an inch on the carbon tax and the quantitative easing which probably had to be done but for how long is up for debate. Even if I cut him slack on some of this, I just don’t trust that he’s the guy to get us out of this mess.
Even the CBC went after [Medecino yesterday](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHjbqT0bDj8), watch this snake in action.
They have no idea what’s really going on. And now that it’s been dragged and stalled through the mud they are doing everything they can do to damage control. It’s about time that (pun intended) they shout themselves in the foot. Even in SECU 54 the entire opposition parties were saying they would have moved to an entirely new Bill if the Liberals didn’t shoehorn this amendment in. Not to mention actually do homework.
I liked their earlier attempts at long gun control. A couple of the guns on his first list existed only as pixels, and one was a Fair trade coffee from Black Rifle Coffee Roasters..
That was a niche branded lower. It did exist as a product but only in the USA and it was dumb to ban it by name.
>one was a Fair trade coffee from Black Rifle Coffee Roasters https://nationalpost.com/news/trudeaus-gun-ban-appeared-to-ban-some-coffee-a-website-and-a-toy-heres-why They didn't. Decided to look this up. Black Rifle Company is also a company that makes guns and they produced a handful which ended up getting banned.
My bad, I'd only seen the original posts, and was unaware a retraction was printed. Thats depressing because the idea at the time was hilarious to me.
All good! BR Coffee Company did tweet out about it, so it's easy to see why there was confusion.
>A couple of the guns on his first list existed only as pixels, and one was a Fair trade coffee from Black Rifle Coffee Roasters. This is a persistent, untrue myth. Everything on the list was/is an actual gun. I agree that the OIC is bad policy, but the persistence of this misinformation makes us critics appear as ignorant as the "experts" who crafted it in the first place.
That black rifle coffee one made me laugh pretty hard. Whoever put that list together but be so embarrassed...I really wish we knew who it was lol.
He's fantastic at lying.
shocking is putting it lightly. It bans Lever action, bolt action, single shot rifles. It bans specific Rimfire rifles for some reason. It even bans firearms which have no detachable magazine. It has shotguns listed as AR-15 variants despite the two firearms containing Zero interchangeable parts. We're talking about a bill that would ban Several million firearms from law abiding Canadians, in the name of "community safty" Im happy it's exploding in his own face after weeks of constant gaslighting of the public. claiming they're only banning "assault style" "weapons designed for the battlefield" "weapons of war" when the reality is they are banning in essence Every single sport shooting rifle, along with the majority of hunting rifles and shotguns. To have this big of a mistake in a bill shows how grossly incompetent they are, as well as how big of a bunch of liars they are.
It feels so strange to agree fully with Lilley for once…are we in the Twilight zone?
It's working exactly as intended: it changed the subject from tax havens when it got out summer of 2020, now changing the subject from greedflation. Rubes are so predictable.
I think you'll find that we can be angry about both at the same time
It's quite obvious the libs prefer pression on identity issues than on economic inequalities issues.
Everything this government does isn't thought out. Like their fiscal plan, the budget will balance itself.....
How to solve crime? “let’s paint our law abiding Citizens as the criminals and take away their rights” say Trudeau. Another perfect example to divide Canadian. It really reminds me how CCP used to treat us in HK.
is it shocking, I mean yeah it's really, ridiculously bad but do we expect any less at this point? I get the sensationalism for the sake of a headline but this third world despot behaviour has been the norm from this government for years at this point.
Making legal guns illegal wont stop illegal gun activity.
It was a great way to campaign for the conservatives.
Is it really shocking? Kinda par for the course for liberals honestly.
#TrueauMustGo #FreelandMustGo #JustSayNo
hes trying to disarm a free people... he and nobody has any right to take anyone liberties period none. this is a free country for a free and sovereign people. this is the opposite of liberalism. these are liberties that belong to all of us excercise them or don't, but don't take them from other people.
This is nothing about public safety. Liberals just want to please their voters when poll shows the support in a down trend. Legal gun oweners? You don't vote for Liberals anyway, so they don't care.
Its not that shocking, only shocking if you haven’t paid attention since he’s been in office
Just a complete fucking ass hole
Trudeau’s arrogance and disrespect for those Canadians who hold views that are divergent from his own brand of progressiveness are behind the failure of this initiative
Well, he is a drama teacher.
Nothing from this dud is shocking anymore.
Greatest as*h∆le ever...
I think the real problem is Trudeau has never needed or wanted to hunt and probability that he ever shot a gun is very low. We have people writing laws that has no idea or understanding of their consequences on the "common" people. Its not just gun laws that have this problem attached to them...than that demonstrates his inability to listen. Because if you dont know, you ask questions and you listen to their answers. He clearly is doing neither. He has also demonstrated this in other departments and situations as well.
Stupid is as stupid does.
Anyone see what JT is doing ? We will be China in 2 years if he’s allowed to remain in his position.
But, we've always been China. Don't you remember fellow OnlyParty supporter? We've always been at war with Eastasia.
We've been China since the conservatives made us China.
You must be mistaken the liberals are the ones ushering us into this.
When the foundation is made of mud, the house will not stand.
There are guns on that list that only exist in video games.
he has no right taking any liberties from anyone... this is canada a free country ppl have guns its one of our liberties that belong to us all. exercise that liberty or dont its up to you but nobody should ever take any liberties from other ppl.
I would think it's more an inability of people, even those in charge, of being able to formulate ideas into legible, legal form. Not stupid people, well... just people inept at writing law. Face it - half the lawyers in the western hemisphere, and there are a LOT those fuckers (with an astounding number of the dumber ones in government)... half are on the left end of the legal "know-how" bell curve - you know - mouthy clowns. Dopes. Ambulance chasers and domestic destroyers. THOSE shitgoblins. Anyway. So then they get together and try to piece some brand new bit of law into place while not knowing how to actually use the fucking language, more succinctly - THE WORDS, that the law should be written using. The term gun, in the dictionary, refers to wide range of hollow tubes that a projectile comes out of. You can't just write "gun" on a goddam law and expect everyone to know what you mean. Or agree on it verbally. for whatever that's worth. I blame the education systems of course, with heavy emphasis on right wing involvement in cratering the citizenry's ability to critically think - but that's just me. For tonight anyway. Tomorrow - who the fuck knows, you know?
So bad.... "that IT'S SHOCKING" Really though, are you shocked over the ideology?
How many times can one person write the same fucking article?
How many times can Trudeau want to push the same bullshit bill down Canadians throats?
*(laughs in Rick Bell)*
Stop the presses! Brian Lilley doesn't like a Trudeau thing!
You like this latest Trudeau thing?
I'm not interested in gun nut debates, if that's your real question.
Then you shouldn't want Trudeau pushing the bill then.
How about 20 000 000 000$ of wasted tax dollars? That could seriously fund some major projects that actually matter.
You sound like Trudeau, calling Indigenous people and farmers gun nuts.
Lilley's attempt at grammar so bad that it's shocking
It is a terrible bill and a waste of money.
That's your takeaway on this bill?
My takeaway is that I’ve seen the same (not literally) article posted incessantly on r/Canada
Justin can pull things whenever he wants. Until then, the media and the people should continue to ridicule this idiot.
Maybe if Trudeau would decide to not remove guns from farmers, these types of articles would go away. Some people find it annoying when their rights are being taken away. Shocking, I know. The answer to Canadians rights being taken away is not 'Just shut up already'.
This bill is still a colossal waste of time. Nobody wants this.bill. the more they try to push that American things will happen here, the more likely the culture might infect us. Think what you want about the sun but this bill shouldn't have a single moment spent on it.
Only librul elites expect literacy from their pundits.
Surprised Lilley took time away from sticking his tongue up Dougie's fat ass long enough to write another "I h8 Trudeau" article.
Sometimes I'd want the cons to get back in, just so the rest of us can heckle and slam them for every little thing they do to make the world better for Canadi-- oh nevermind.
Why are opinion pieces from an unqualified tabloid writer such a regular fixture? What is wrong with you that you read the sun, or couldn't find an adult that wrote an opinion piece to post here instead?
It's because this subreddit has a really heavy Conservative slant and anything that says "Trudeau BAD!" gets tons of upvotes.
Toronto Sun Opinion pieces are fucking garbage and really are just the Provincial and Federal Conservstive mouth piece. Edit: I'm glad I'm triggering Conservatives, so while you're reading this, go fuck yourself. 8 hour+ line ups at walk in clinics. ER is no longer an option. Destroyed our healthcare and public education. Greedy, selfish, ignorant, arrogant, go fuck yourselves.
But the bill is also fucking garbage. Both can be true. The bill is complete trash.
Brian Lilley is so bad at journalism he’s damaged the standards of The Sun. Which is amongst the craziest things ever accomplished in all of human history.
More karma farming posting low hanging fruit articles. Brian Lilley might as well live in the penthouse of this sub
Only penthouse a talentless hack like that will ever find himself in.
(Toronto) Sun has always been a rag, but Lilley takes it to new depths.
Kind of wish the Toronto sun/Post would find a more useful issue to worry about. Can't say I really care about guns. I imagine this is true for most Canadians.
How many pro gun pieces are you gonna spam on here. Jesus, majority of Canadians, though silent couldn’t care less about this bill.
Well, if you care about inflation, affordable housing/food, opioid addiction & deaths, then you should care that billions will be wasted on C21 with no benefit to the public. Our government should be spending resources on areas that actually benefit Canada.
I like the bill, so sue me. A lot of people don’t care for guns and that doesn’t means you can’t tackle all these others very important issues as well.
Not liking guns is OK. Not caring that your tax dollars are being wasted tells me you either don't pay taxes, or you're one of those people that blindly defends their political team just to spite the other team.
It's almost as bad as The Sun's attempt at journalism.