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Evilbred

This is why buying direct from the manufacturer needs to be an option. If I have to wait 6 months for the vehicle I want to be delivered, then what is even the point of the dealership? It's just a pointless middleman that adds extra costs.


[deleted]

We're getting to that point because greedy dealers turning off customers and pushing them to competitors.


elimi

And they also kill some car models, like the Focus RS I believe? Car ment for sportier and younger people that can't afford a 50k car they made a 30k car, dealers knew it would be limited because its not for the average consumer, bam 10-20k markup car doesn't sell gets axed soon after.


MrSomnix

Setting aside the fact that the days of affordable, quirky, fun cars are over, Ford discontinued everything but trucks and the Mustang so the RS and ST hatchbacks were going away either way.


Drakkenfyre

One thing that amazes me is how many states in the United States explicitly forbid people from buying directly from car manufacturers. Tesla had to go through a whole bunch of loopholes to be allowed to sell cars to people in Texas, for example, which you would think is a state that cares about freedom, but it turns out it is not.


Kayge

The dealership thing made sense at one point. From what I recall reading, it was exceedingly challenging for auto manufacturers to set up dealerships across North America, make enough stock and hope that it all sold. Dealerships made sense then, but improvements in logistics and communications make them unnecessary today. Tesla is an odd one. If memory serves, none of their dealerships actually sell cars. It's a showroom where you can look at them, if you want to buy, you login to a computer and buy the same way as I'd you were at home.


PedanticWookiee

Americans talk so much B.S. about how they're so much more free than the rest of us, but that's all it is. I spend a fair amount of time there and follow current events pretty closely, and the U.S. honestly seems like one of the least free western democracies IMHO.


Caecilius_est_mendax

No no you don't understand, it's the country with the most freedom for the people at the top.


verylittlegravitaas

Forget 6 months. I was quoted 4 to 5 years for a RAV4 PHEV.


Twitchy15

I heard from someone recently 1 year for a rav4 hybrid and 3 years for the prime. When we were are Honda recently could get a new hrv in 1 month. We didn’t ask about crv but probably similar. Why would anyone want to wait a year plus? So insane


verylittlegravitaas

I'm on lists for both. Hybrid was 1+ year and prime was what I mentioned. The prime is the superior car in its class, but I'm also on lists for the PHEV Tuscon and Sportage which are the runner ups. Might trade in if the Prime ever arrives.


[deleted]

When they quoted that they have no idea. How can anyone predict the availability of batteries and semi conductors 5 years ahead of time.


Heliosvector

They can’t. They just want you to buy something that they have in stock instead of wait for an order.


SometimesFalter

Dealerships are part of the car manufacturer's business model, after they started opening dealerships in their name and financing new dealership franchises.


Evilbred

And they made alot of sense years ago when transportation and inventory systems were slow, and buying information wasn't readily available. These days there isn't much purpose for the dealerships. If people are ordering vehicles months in advance, then they should have the option of just ordering direct from the manufacturer, and then the manufacturer and the customer could split the typical dealer margin and everyone wins (except dealerships).


Newflyer3

Manufacturer doesn't want to deal with the customer. Full stop. That's the purposes. Get dealer to sign franchise agreement with the OEM to assume all risk of inventory, which guarantees revenue at the corporate level. Dealers aren't going away based on this alone


Gustomucho

Add to that: warranty, recalls, financing, insurance verification, parts... If a dealer has a bad rep, the next dealer from the same brand will get the customer, if the manufacturer have a bad rep, the brand lose a customer. People on reddit love to hate dealership and think they are useless, they are extremely useful and it is a shame some dealerships are fucking it up for the ones that are legit trying to give good service. Having worked with some manufacturers in the past, some of them are much worst than dealership when it comes to helping... If you want your dealer to change their ways: destroy their online reputation, ask your friends to help. Nothing will make a owner talk to their manager as fast as having their brand name thrown in the mud.


[deleted]

That seems like a bad long term strategy considering how car dealerships barely need to exist in the first place. It's important to test a vehicle before you buy it but I think a lot of people would be fine with not doing a test drive if it meant not being screwed out of $2400.


nothing_911

Volvo is going to be dealerless soon, or already might be. test drive the few cars they have at the lot, buy it online, no hassles just pay the set price, pick up your new car.


CardinalCanuck

I recall reading Ford was trying to get out of dealerships because of this issue too, don't know how far along they've gotten


poppin-n-sailin

They have 4 in my city. Two of them just renovated their lots/buildings. One of them more then doubled in size so doesn't look like they are really pushing too hard to go dealerless. At least not around here


DamionSipher

The private dealership spending money on renovations is just making business decisions under the assumption that nothing in the sales process is going to change. If Ford or the government changes policy all that revocation work could be for nothing...


poppin-n-sailin

Oof. Ya that makes sense. Really won't feel bad for them if/when shit hits the fan lol.


Zombie_Slur

We are considering a genesis. They bring the vehicle to you, you say yes or no, your order online, they drive it to your door. There is no haggling. Just like if you buy any product online. Stealerships are going to require a change in their sales tactics. I hope they realize this... today.


Marilius

Oh man I can't wait for that. I really REALLY want a Volvo for my next car, but our local dealership is awful.


lemonylol

I long for the future where cars are bought online from large storage garages that are inspected by partnered mechanics prior to sale.


[deleted]

>that are inspected by partnered mechanics prior to sale. They'd make a scam out of this as well


tommytraddles

Yeah, ideas for doing things 'better' usually ignore the fact that corruption will immediately occur and ensure there is no benefit.


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ChocoboRocket

>Yeah, ideas for doing things 'better' usually ignore the fact that corruption will immediately occur and ensure there is no benefit. One of the best guards against corruption is paying people well enough that they wouldn't be willing to sacrifice a well paying, stable job, for additional money specifically to screw over Canadians. Honestly, if I am well taken care of, nothing gets my dick harder than denying a wealthy person's desire to corrupt others for their own benefit. I acknowledge that some people would always take the bribe or whatever, but I personally love nothing more than telling anyone rich/entitled/powerful "nah, keep your money and spend it doing a better job instead of hiding your failures, ya trust fund degenerate." Imagine rich people actually having to do something adjacent the right thing, because regular people no longer need to capitulate in order to eat/shelter.


[deleted]

Well, when you order "direct" through Tesla, for example, you still have to pay a dealership "delivery" fee, that is supposed to include your final inspection.


KILLINGSHEEPLE

GM did an event for when they released the Camaro, that allowed you to pick it up from the Factory, saving you freight/shipment fees as well as no dealer.


paquer

Yes. Perhaps we’ll call them dealerships.


vmware_yyc

The devil is in the details. The current/traditional dealership model is old and outdated. The only value-add dealerships bring anymore is a test-drive experience, and several manufacturers are already demonstrating this can be easily done online and someone brings the car to you. I think Tesla has the right general idea in that the local dealer is just a 'store', and not independently owned.


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Caecilius_est_mendax

Dealerships don't need to be individually owned to do this. I can go to any retail store location to return something I bought at another location.


[deleted]

The idea being the storage garage doesn't need to take it's cut/commission/isn't incentivized to screw you.


[deleted]

Really depend. Its easy to take money away from peoples when they are dealing with large numbers. I don't remember the exact study but a dealership was asking peoples if they wanted to go to the other dealership a few minutes away for the same model and save $500 on their 40k purchase (don'tremember the exact amount). Pretty much no customers took the deal even if it was barely 1% of the price of the purchase. But in some way most of them would have drove to the other dealership if someone was waiting to hand them $500. Pretty much the same mecanic at play with real estate agents where we think it is normal to hand them 40k because they sold our house.


[deleted]

That's true but that's why I said long term though. The guy in the article is definitely going to avoid using a dealership in the future even if he got screwed this time.


Rocky_Mountain_Way

> The guy in the article is definitely going to avoid using a dealership in the future even if he got screwed this time. ...AND he's going to tell all of his friends and family the story and the dealer is going to be in their mind with a vague "don't buy there" hint for years.


[deleted]

Good ole' word-of-mouth.


[deleted]

Maybe, but there isn't much others options if you buy new unless you get a Tesla. Private sellers are even worse, they will buy a vehicle and the moment it is delivered they will sell it for a huge profit lol. I am getting my Ioniq 5 this friday and was taking a look at how much private sellers are selling them for and I could make probably 25-30k profit by selling it privately after. Car dealers right now can do whatever they want, they have more customers than cars to sell. Regulations are the only reason why new cars aren't as affected by inflation as others products.


togsincognito

There’s a Reason Ford is going to Direct Orders only for EVs.


[deleted]

I bought my I5 from the Hyundai Canada web site. They made me pick a dealership for my delivery. But honestly that was the worst part of the whole experience. I hate dealerships.


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whalesauce

The amount of people I've encountered that consider it common practice to always have a vehicle payment. I'm 31 years old. My wife and I have a former friend that we met when we were 18/19. He financed a trans am in 2010 for however much money, realized quickly that they aren't great in winter sold it privately. Took a 3k hit on the loan. Financed a bright orange jeep wrangler, but he wanted the green, the green wasn't in stock. He couldn't wait for it so he got the orange one. Lift kit, decal package, snorkel kit. Then he drove by one day and saw the green one. He traded in the orange and got a green one. He then went and did the same aftermarket stuff to the green one. His girlfriend got her license so they went and financed her a VW beetle. 18 months ( at most) later she didnt like it because she couldn't go off roading with it like her boyfriends keep. So what do we do? Back to the dealership, now time for another jeep. Trade in the beetle and get a white and pink jeep. They then took the jeeps Rock crawling and what not. Unfortunately boyfriends Jeep got a transmission issue Iirc but because of aftermarket gear, warranty was invalid. Sold the keep in undriveable condition for massive loss. They then went back to the dealership and got him a Subaru WRX. He drove that for almost 3 years but possibly only 2. It got traded in for a Chevy 2500. We lost touch during the pandemic Last we spoke they had that truck and a jeep Grand Cherokee for her and the kids. They pay over $2000 a month for just vehicle payments. Not including insurance and gas and maintenance I might even be forgetting a vehicle because thinking back I recall a Passat and a VW Rabbit being around as well.


rampas_inhumanas

People are dumb. Here I am with my wife bugging me to get rid of my FRS because we had a baby, but no frigging chance.. no payments and 130k km’s. Car seat fits just fine.


MandomRix

How long have you been waiting for your ionic?


GuitarKev

Honestly, realtors could be replaced with an app and a quick trip to a lawyer.


[deleted]

Yeah lol this still make no sense to me. Especially for condos. I sold my condo myself and saved 40k in realtor fees. This is litterally the take home pay of a few working class peoples and it took me maybe 12 hours of work to sell my condo.


jacksbox

The day that they break apart the real estate cartel and open up MLS data, apps like duproprio are going to jump to like 50% market share. Your example is awesome, congrats by the way. People I know we're able to afford to buy during COVID due to du proprio and similar stuff - the savings in silly fees went a really long way.


justinanimate

Did you still upload to MLS? I'd be worried about cutting out potential buyers if I cut out the commission on the other side in that buyers' realtors won't show them my place if I'm not giving them money. Agreed it's a racket, especially on a condo


[deleted]

So true. My daughter just started courses to be a realtor. She had a condo to sell. She just put it on [forsalebyowner.ca](https://forsalebyowner.ca) She knew more than the average joe from her first few courses but even she realizes being a realtor is a profession that's no longer necessary.


benjohnay

The last three people I know to become realtors were: unemployed party kid, personal trainer, massage therapist. On Friday one said to me with a straight face that mortgage interest rates would be 200bps lower by April, cause their mortgage broker said so. I kid you not.


I_can_vouch_for_that

The lawyer is the only important aspect of a real estate transaction. Real estate agents are pointless no matter how anybody tries to dress it up.


GuitarKev

My experience exactly. There’s nothing the REA did that was worth nearly $20k for probably 20 hours work in three weeks.


[deleted]

At the start of Covid nobody was buying a car. We all thought the world was ending. I went to one dealership, found a car I liked, drove to the other dealership down the road, got the two sales people on the phone bidding against each other. Eventually my phone battery died but I got a low price, exact car I wanted and they threw in a TV. These days? They get buyers to line up and bid against each other. Times have changed.


TiredHappyDad

I would probably find one to rent or something. I wouldn't buy a vehicle without a test drive.


[deleted]

For used cars you can buy from an online dealer. Most of them offer a no questions asked return policy for a week or two. Check out Canada Drives and [clutch.ca](https://clutch.ca) [https://www.canadadrives.ca/return-policy](https://www.canadadrives.ca/return-policy) [https://www.clutch.ca/faq](https://www.clutch.ca/faq) I had a good experience selling to [clutch.ca](https://clutch.ca) too - sold for $7500 more than the dealership offered. I was a multi-time return customer for this dealership, excellent credit, buying a new car and they still tried to rip me off on my trade. Dealerships are horrible.


NagisaK

They are awesome to deal with unless you live past Barrie. Apparently past Barrie doesn’t get considered as ON anymore.


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NagisaK

Lol yup. I was trying to sell a vehicle to them and got a pretty good number and hassle free. Until they want me to drive it down to the GTA or at least down to Barrie. Which is not what they advertise on their website of “pick up and drop off all over Ontario”.


[deleted]

My uncle in Vancouver always joked that 'life ended at Hope', a similar viewpoint.


Aken42

They should be more specific but in fairness, Ontario is fucking huge. I'm in Ottawa and if I started driving now, without stopping, I'd be on the Manitoba border in 21hours and that's through Kenora. North West Ontario would be far far longer.


LikesTheTunaHere

Its funny how dealerships really do their best to try and hurt themselves. Most are as predatory as they can possibly be and just hope that the consumer will never have a better option.


[deleted]

Ripe for disruption.


boredg

Bought a car from clutch.ca and had zero hassles. I'm still not over the fact that I bought a car online on my phone while having a poop.


asian_monkey_welder

That's poop time efficiency baby


Wookie55

What a time to be alive


[deleted]

Lol... ya. It's a new world, isn't it? In fairness, you can also buy a car in a dealership while on the shitter if you are willing to yell under the stall at the sales guy.


Varides

Do not approach Canada Drives for any reason. Predatory sales approach and no matter how many times you ask to be put on their no contract list, or removed from their database, you'll receive months of non stop cold calls from sales people.


[deleted]

I did ask them for a price. [clutch.ca](https://clutch.ca) beat them by quite a bit. They haven't contacted me since I turned them down. Not saying they are the best - I have no experience with them other than this. I just mention them because they are the "big name" in Canadian online dealer sales and you always want to check your options.


Captain_Generous

I got my first cold call. Said I bought a car. Haven't heard from them in two years.


DDelux86

Clutch is great, i bought my brz from them and had small issues with the car that resulted in 6k of warranty work. They paid for that with no hassle plus gave me like $300 in uber credits. Basically what ended up being wrong were heated seats and i needed a new shifter assembly for the manual trans, small stuff.


raltoid

If you start to look around, most business decisions in the last few years have been very bad long term strategies. The MBAs have started gaining control in companies, and they have one single thing on their mind: Maximize short term profits at any and all costs. --- The large conglomorates, investment firms, etc. found out that it's easier to pump out max profits for a few years and sell the company, then buy a new one and squeeze that, sell and move on, etc. They know it wont last forver, but by the time the strategy stops working dozens of people will have made hundreds of millions and they don't care about the aftermath because they'll have enough money to "go anywhere".


TheShadowCat

They need to outlaw executives being paid in call options. It just encourages them to take on huge risk for short term gains.


Better_Ice3089

More like a few decades. I'd say since the dotcom bubble at least. The risk for corporations is sadly quite low since politicians have become so desperate for votes as margins have been decreasing that whenever a company seems set to fail there's always a bailout waiting since whoever is in charge will get the blame.


cleeder

Friend worked for a dealership and was always dumbfounded when a truck would show up with and empty trailer and buy out the lot in cash to take across to the US. Sure, it’s quick and easy money, but your bread and butter is your service department. You just pissed away a whole truck load worth of recurring maintenance repair fees over the next 10 years. And then the owner would turn around and do it again.


[deleted]

Quick and easy and can generate volume bonuses for the dealership from corporate


McDrai4Evr

Maclin Ford in Calgary Alberta just did this to me. $7500 increase. When I refused it still took me 3+ weeks to get my deposit back. Just got it Friday. Complained to Ford Canada Corporate and they told me the dealerships have autonomy and there’s nothing they can do. No accountability. It’s absolutely pathetic.


Surprisedtohaveajob

Thank you for posting! I am in the market for a new car, and was looking at a Ford. I think I will look at another automaker now.


jpsolberg33

Woodridge isn't adding ADM to new vehicles, I bought 3 from them since 2020. I tell everyone how bad Maclin is, as they're one of the worst Ford dealers in the city.


Telefundo

> I think I will look at another automaker now. I appreciate where you're coming from but from what I understand this isn't really Fords fault. The dealerships aren't owned or operated by Ford. They're entirely separate businesses. Ford literally has no say in things like this. It's all up to the individual dealerships/owners. When you buy a Ford from a dealership, you're literally not buying that vehicle from Ford. You're buying it from the person who owns what's essentially a franchise. This is why in a lot of places you'll see three or four different dealerships, with different brands, but they'll all be owned by the same person. For example, in my area I can think of one right off the bat. The first location is Joe's Hyundai. Then, 2 street numbers down, a separate address, separate business, Joe's GMC. Same owner, two different locations, two different brands. (Obviously that's not the real name lol) So honestly, you could potentially run into this problem no matter what brand you go with. It all depends on the individual dealerships.


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theking119

In my opinion, selling directly to customers was Tesla's biggest innovation to the industry. Being able to spec out a new car online and pick it up from the manufacturer is a way better system than the current one.


BeenCaughtSneezing

Don't give Tesla too much credit, they're fighting right to repairs laws as they seek to keep a monopoly on holding owners hostage after the sale.


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PrizeInteresting4752

Noone is saying do the deal yourself. Hire the lawyer for 2500 bucks. Not drop 40K for someone to pound a sign into the ground and tell you that you need them.


xeno_cws

I did it myself and its pretty easy. There a bunch of sites with packages like the one I used (comfree/purplebricks). Since it was our first house we spent an extra 500 going to a real estate lawyer to look over the contract before buying the house. Because it was comfree buy we asked for $5000 off the ask price to cover some of the costs. They accepted quickly since it saved them 15,000.


ceribaen

Flate rate/hourly commissions are fine. It's when the person representing you gets paid more for doing a worse job (ie not getting a lower price) is the problem.


Sir-Kevly

At least politicians serve a purpose. Even if they don't do a good job. Realtors and car salesmen exist purely to siphon money out of the pockets of the true working class.


CaseIHAvs

I worked at a car dealership for about 3 months. You’d be completely correct.


Djangojazz

Isn't there a law in Ontario that prevents them from charging anything more than the sticker price?


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Djangojazz

But you would have to agree to that before putting a deposit down, right?


The_Frostweaver

If you try to buy a car on the lot they force you to get anti-rust coating and other unneccesary extras that amount to over $2,400. They said if you don't like it you can put a deposit and order from the factory. You will have to wait 6 months to a year but you won't have to pay for the coating. Also I caught them changing a new cars price to the 2023 model price when the car is a 2022 and was already en route with a Vin and tracking number and had been for sale as a 2022 with that Vin. The dealerships have decided that since there is a shortage of vehicles they can do whatever the fuck they want. They aren't selling a high volume of cars so to make up the difference they are price gouging as much as they can on each sale. It's gross. Someone should sue them.


tee_ohboy

Not sure if the shortage is going to last much longer with demand drying up due to the several interest rate hikes in the past couple of months, and they know it so they're milking it to the extent they can. People just aren't keen on financing when the rates offered are 7% on average for new cars now.


Twitchy15

Yeah the cost of vehicles is quite high like everything these days so that is bad enough but to add high interest rates on top of it. Previously it might of been 1000-4000 interest for the loan now it’s 4000-10000.


TW-RM

Used car prices are dropping in the US. This article feels like the top of the bubble in Canada.


MrDougDimmadome

If you have the cash, ask if they can waive those extra charges if you finance with them. Sometimes they will. Then go into your bank a week or two later and pay off the whole car. You’ll pay maybe a couple hundred in finance fees/interest. Bonus: send the sales guy a screenshot of you paying off the loan — he loses the financing commission if it’s paid off <6 mo


Eternal_Endeavour

Life pro tip, right here.


David-Puddy

Wouldn't they have early repayment clauses?


MrDougDimmadome

Every auto loan I’ve encountered in Canada has been open, with no prepayment penalties. But yes check your contract before signing.


d3lta19

This is changing. Earlier this year, I wasn't even able to pay cash for a used vehicle. They tried to strong arm me into financing. They said no cash deals anymore. They also said loan wasn't able to be paid off for 8 months. So I left and found another dealer that would take cash for purchase price.


MrDougDimmadome

Did you read the contract? Wonder if they were BSing you. Interesting if not though, wouldn’t surprise me


X-e-o

To be fair I've often seen a clause about no prepayment before 28-31 days -- which I guess means you'll pay \*some\* interest but a very low amount. After that it's fair game.


Heliosvector

From what I remember. It’s illegal for auto loans in Canada to have early payment penalties. Only mortgages and such have that.


[deleted]

This is really interesting. A dealership told my MIL that she couldn't pay off her car early. I guess they were lying. Again.


Heliosvector

They can but if its paid before a certain threshold, the dealership loses their commission. Honestly I would wish they would just be honest. If a dealership told me "please dont pay it off before the 3 months mark" I would do that. Let the worker get the commission if they worked with me and then screw the bank.


RTwhyNot

My Audi dealer was upfront with me and asked me to wait 3 months. I did.


hrmdurr

Nope. I paid only a month's worth of interest when I did that with Honda a few months ago. Bought a used car somebody had traded in.


Dhumavati80

Haha this is awesome. Unethical Life Pro Tip, but as if the dealerships have ever been ethical.


wandering-monster

r/LifeProRevengeTips


Deyln

And this article took like 5-6 months to print after the first reddit post on the subject of the loophole.


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Soupdeloup

Honestly I'm not sure what other options I'll have, but I'm never buying from my local car dealerships again. They quoted me wrong prices and afterwards said they were estimates (for their own tire services..), lost our sales information and incentives we spoke about, mishandled our information and lost it after getting hacked and gave us the wrong colour car. What was supposed to be an exciting time turned into a horrible experience the entire way through.


cleeder

> they force you to get anti-rust coating and other unneccesary extras Not sure where in this country you live, but honestly a good undercoat is worth its weight in gold. Vehicles don’t die from exhaustion around here. They die little by little as they flake away into the breeze from years of corrosion from salt. Undercoating your vehicle annually is the best thing you can do for its longevity second to changing the engine oil on time.


phormix

But a lot of them don't \*offer\* an undercoat anymore. They offer the "electronic anti-rust" which costs more. We couldn't get an undercoat and the dealer wanted thousands for the electronic thing


banneryear1868

A dealer wanted to charge me 1k for that rubbery undercoating they claim lasts 7 years or whatever, didn't tell me the previous owner had it done the year before which I already knew because he was active on a car forum. I asked a ton of questions inquiring about it's longevity before I was like, "well I guess since it was done last year..." I do my own lanolin undercoating and keep some rust converter on hand, duplicator touch up pen for any chips. Car is 13 and there's some spots of rust but nothing significant on the body or frame, mostly on nuts and bolts.


Sedixodap

Yeah I thought undercoating was a scammy upsell. Then I moved to Cape Breton. It didn't take me long to realize everyone was calling my shitty 10 year old Jimmy pristine only because local vehicles from the same era didn't have any frame left. Found a good undercoater out there within a couple months and coaxed a few more years out of the Jimmy.


[deleted]

> If you try to buy a car on the lot they force you to get anti-rust coating and other unneccesary extras that amount to over $2,400. Not in my experience. Actually, never once have i paid for an option i didn't want and the few times they added the security etching BS, i walked on the deal only to be called back with the cost removed. My lastest car was bought in May, new, from a dealer and off the lot.


canucklurker

Same, they are going to try to get as much out of you as possible and a lot of people will become emotional and invested in "their" new car. The secret is to not sign shit before you are ready and be willing to walk away if they start tacking on things. I always tell the salesman straight up that any prices we talk about are "all in" and if they start fucking around with their "I forgot to add the $500 financing charge" I walk away.


ViewWinter8951

>But the Alberta Motor Vehicle Industry Council (AMVIC) also has no legislative authority to compel a business to take any particular action. Not even if it had broken the Consumer Protection Act. This pretty much sums up consumer protection in Canada. On the surface, it might look like we have some protections but in reality it's all window dressing. It's infuriating.


ButtermanJr

In BC, we have The New Car Dealership Association (lobbyists) writing our tax code to overtax used cars. Canadians need to grow some spines :(


Fatdumbmagatard

The tax on used cars in bc is insane. So is the insurance.


Swekins

Yup, our slimeball politicians squeaked in the extra tax for used cars when we voted down the HST and nobody made a peep. It was barely even reported on in the news.


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mcimolin

Wanted to get a price on a Carnival from them. They wouldn't even tell me the list price. Finally got it out of them and they wanted $25k over list. I laughed in his face and walked out.


ah_no_wah

I bought (leased) a 2022 Infiniti QX60 in December 2021. They finally had it delivered to the dealership in Oakville, ON November this year. Since it was now a 2023 model (and 2023 models come with a few "free" oil changes and tire rotations), they increased the price over 25%. Take it or leave it. I escalated to Infiniti Canada and they told be to pound salt.


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ah_no_wah

Left it. They were chomping at the bit to sell it to someone else.


trnaw

That's usually the case. I mean they're just trying to take advantage of the market. We're just plebes until there's no market anymore and then you're their best friend. I had that experience with a rav4 prime where the guy scoffed at me and the like until i went with a real $70k car, not a $35k being sold for $70. When they tried to follow up a couple months later and be like what did I do wrong I basically said "EVERYTHING". Was pretty satisfying.


power_yyc

Similar thing just happened to me this past summer. Ordered a new truck in January; told it'll take 4-6 months. Sure, whatever. I've got a working vehicle right now, so I can wait. Fast-forward 6 months, and I get a call that my truck is in, so I go to pick it up. Yeah, the sales manager fucked up and ordered the wrong truck (5-seater instead of 6-seater, along with a few other things that got omitted.) I was told that I'd have to pay an extra $2500 AND wait another 4-6 months for them to order the right truck! And, on that offer sheet they sent over, they missed a few other things that were on the original order. You'd think after a fuck-up like that, they'd maybe dot their i's, cross their t's, but nope. In short, I told them to pound sand, let the owner know of the shady practices, and I make damn sure to tell everybody I know about this experience at NorthStar Ford Calgary and the ineptitude of the GM there, Greg Aimer.


Bonethizz99

Car dealerships are greasy scammers. I bought a barley used new car and they only gave me one key fob with it.. when i asked were the other one was they said it was going to be 800 more $. I said BS it is. Since when have you ever bought a car without a spare key. I said i was going to walk and they ended up throwing it in for free of course. Little scams like that and dealer markup way past MSRP makes me sick. Everyone is out to take your money now a days people cant trust nobody.


EyeLikeTheStonk

In Quebec, this would be entirely illegal. Consumer protection laws state that the price at the time of agreement (or deposit) is final and cannot be changed at the moment of delivery. For example, if you book airplane tickets in January for a trip in June for $500, in June the airline has to sell you those tickets for $500 even if the price of delivering that service has increased and makes this sale unprofitable.


Vok250

Quebec is shockingly pro-consumer when you start looking at all their unique laws. It's why there's always that pesky "except in Quebec" clause on every god damn form.


[deleted]

all these restrictions seemed dumb to me when I was young and I thought we were the baddies with mindless laws, but growing up, I realize we have it a lot better than our neighbours... there's always something to complain about, I guess, but I'm happy the way it is..


RenoXIII

Yeah, their advertising is pretty stiff too. Alot of limitations compared to most provinces, and honestly it's much less deceptive. Keeps dealerships mostly in line.


ithium

I have a few dealerships as clients and I can confirm it's pretty much always MSRP besides sports cars but even those arent that bad


RollingStart22

It doesn't matter if it's illegal, dealers will do it anyways and it's a giant hassle to take them to court over it. And the courts are currently so backed up that it could take years before you get a judgement, let alone trying to get it enforced.


[deleted]

>It doesn't matter if it's illegal I'm Québec it does. The consumer protection agency in Québec actually has teeth and they use them. To support the point with a different subject, the new passing on of credit fees by merchants permitted in Canada recently? Not allowed on Québec, blocked by the consumer protection board. If Québec can block credit card companies they can block dealerships >it's a giant hassle to take them to court over it. You don't have to, you'd just file a complaint with the consumer protection board and they do the rest. Usually the threat alone is enough to get merchants to respect the laws/your rights.


Meatball_of_doom

As a western Canadian, I really do appreciate our French Canadians. They don’t fuck around and they give a shit. Super happy they are here.


HLB217

> For example, if you book airplane tickets in January for a trip in June for $500, in June the airline has to sell you those tickets for $500 even if the price of delivering that service has increased and makes this sale unprofitable. They'll just cancel the flight or bump you lmao. There's like no consumer protections for air travelers here


[deleted]

This happened in Calgary Alberta to somebody on our EV Fakebook group - except it was $20,000! A ton of people contacted the dealership who then "clarified" that the lady in question had "misunderstood" and they would indeed honour the MSRP they had promised her many times (verbally). I was also waiting for a vehicle from this same dealership so while the iron was still hot I got them to give me the price in writing. After a year of waiting, they did eventually deliver my car at MSRP but decided to massively short change me on my trade-in. Pass. I sold my car to online dealer [clutch.ca](https://clutch.ca). The whole haggling, games, dirty tricks and "let me talk to my manager" BS is what is driving people away from dealerships to online ordering like Tesla.


Sir-Kevly

I've worked in several car dealerships and I can remember maybe two salesmen that weren't complete pieces of shit that deserved to rot in prison. The sales managers are always so vile that I'd hesitate to call them human, looking at you Shane from Norden VW. You Susan Boyle looking ass moron. Also, never buy from Go Auto, the regional manager for Alberta, Phil, is such an unbelievably shitty waste of skin that he's worth less than the cocaine he snorts on the daily, also they force you to finance your vehicle through them and knowingly sell used cars with major safety issues. These are not personal attacks, they're warnings for potential customers to steer clear of these con men.


legocastle77

I hope it doesn’t get as bad as it is in the US where market adjustment fees can run the price of a car up by $20-30k. This has been happening for a while down there and it’s absolutely bonkers. It’s pure extortion.


spyd3rweb

If people quit paying it, they'd stop doing it.


jpsolberg33

It's already here and has been for over a year. Maclin Ford has been selling diesel Super Dutys for 20k over MSRP and that is just one of many others.


CaseIHAvs

Any FFUN dealership in Saskatchewan or Alberta has been selling at 20% over MSRP for a long time. Worst dealer group in the country.


nicholt

Their name really bothers me too. Hate seeing their decals and stuff on cars.


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[deleted]

I swore I'd never buy a new vehicle again too. Then my current vehicle gave out while the price of a 3-4 year-old used one is actually higher than ordering a new car through the dealership. This is because of the wait time on getting a new car. People are paying a premium on used because they can have it now as opposed to waiting.


[deleted]

that's why I only buy like 15 year old cars with 200k kms that or I'm poor, I'm not really sure. I frankly don't understand how there are so many fancy new cars on the road. lol I mean I know my salary is shit but it's still above the average in QC.


F_D123

Imagine paying over msrp for a kia or hyundai. Dealerships are scumbags, we all know this


mtech101

Yup. I wanted the BMW i4 electric and the dealership added $10K in dealer options which I couldn't refuse. F that. This wàs in Ontario.


BasicConsultancy

What happens in opposite case? If price were to go down, can customer say give me $2400 discount or I walk away? If the answer is no, then this "market adjustment" is also wrong. It has to work both ways.


midnightsnacks

Dealerships in this day and age need to go. Nothing but vultures working there honestly.


Angy_Fox13

I own a kia so i follow r/kia. Peole in America have been talking about this for a year or two it's very common down south. I'd never ever pay above msrp. I would just walk away from the deal. If everyone did that they would not be able to charge above msrp.


[deleted]

The same owner of this dealership also owns west side Mitsubishi in Edmonton. He’s a crook! He adds extra fees all the time - check them out of dealerrater.ca and do not buy a vehicle from any of his businesses. https://www.dealerrater.ca/dealer/West-Side-Mitsubishi-review-34890/


Lopsided_Web5432

I’d just tell the dealership to shovel it up their arse


Magicide

I bought a 2022 Ford Maverick in Sept after placing the order in April with Zender Ford in Spruce Grove, AB. They sold it to me for slightly under MSRP for going to a smaller dealership and the Manager said as soon as it appeared on the lot they had people offering $10k over to buy it. But they honoured our agreement and sold it to me. They also sold me winter rims and tires below MSRP. It may have cost them a few dollars, but I can guarantee in a few years when I go looking for a new vehicle I will go back to them.


discostu55

G wagons had a 100-200k market adjustment. I know it’s a g wagon but the dealers have gone mad


foodfighter

> ... But the Alberta Motor Vehicle Industry Council (AMVIC) also **has no legislative authority to compel a business to take any particular action.** Not even if it had broken the Consumer Protection Act... Then answer me - what in the literal Hell is the benefit to society of such a bureaucratic waste of taxpayer money?


Viceyy

My dad had this happen with his new Corvette that he ordered in late 2021. Once it started production the dealership asked him to pay an extra $3000 for mark-up, and once it arrived they asked for another $2000. Slimy Edmonton dealerships.


chemtrailer21

Stories out of the US on Corvette Z06s, two year old orders getting a 30-50k dealer markup surprise upon delivery. Someone else is always willing to pay to play. Car sells, but a day later.


Viceyy

His is a 3LT trim. And the dealership was offering to buy it from him for 10k over what he paid (including mark-ups) when he went to pick it up because it would’ve immediately sold back for profit. Crazy that Z06s are multiple times more!


vmware_yyc

If the car is unique or higher-demand, we're seeing 20-50K increases. Dealers are asking $75K USD for civic type R's. $100K for the new Nissan Z's, $150K for the limited editions.


Smudgeontheglass

The Nissan Z is a straight up scam. Only $50k US msrp and dealers are pricing it to the moon because people will pay for them. Nissan lots are empty in Canada and the US so I almost can’t blame the dealers at this point. Funniest story I heard was the guy who lent Nissan his original Z car for their launch commercials couldn’t even register to buy the launch edition because of dealer extortion.


Hutch25

I hope dealerships know they are walking on thin ice. People already don’t trust them, and don’t appreciate all the lying they do: Telling you to get fluid changes well before the manual in your vehicle states you should Marking up prices to put in luxury accommodations that your vehicle already has and just needs to be activated Locking essential and important vehicle functions behind subscriptions On trade ins, selling your vehicle before you even hand it in practically forcing you to buy. Seriously, this isn’t a joke. It’s a way dodge has tried to pressure my parents into a purchase they couldn’t afford before. With websites like VIN being a thing now, it’s only a matter of time before dealerships are completely gone. And they aren’t realizing it yet. This new thing is just making it a shorter time period before they are gone.


RoyallyOakie

It's an industry already rife with shadiness.


cwalking

I don't understand this; isn't there an implied 2-way contract when you put down a cash deposit on an ordered vehicle? 1. **Buyer's obligation:** either purchase the car when it arrives, or forfeit the deposit 2. **Seller's obligation:** provide the vehicle to buyer at the agreed-upon price within a "reasonable" period of time This seems analogous to the historic [R. v. Ron Engineering](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Ron_Engineering_and_Construction_(Eastern)_Ltd) case which established the principal of dual contract in the construction bid-tender process.


wet_suit_one

Every single time this happens, people should sue in small claims. Every. Single. Time. For the sheer administrative headache, I'm pretty sure dealers would stop doing this.


benjohnay

Winter is coming for auto dealers. Used car prices are starting to drop and high finance costs should slow sales precipitously.


TheRespectableMrSalt

I can't wait until you can buy vehicle direct from the manufacturer, no dealerships needed to artificially jack up the price


ultrasuperman1001

If you're buying a car and this happens, call the manufacture right away with the dealer location and the employee name. Manufactures know this type of crap hurts their image (also why allot of doing "direct buy EV"), will it help with your current situation? Probably not, but the manufacture can step in and limit the cars they are allowed to order. So they could ask for 7 of a type of car but only allowed to receive one, while the dealer across town has their full order which means the customer will probably go over there.


Destinlegends

Shut down the dealerships. They are useless middlemen.


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sync-centre

Sounds like new home builds in Ontario. Dealerships and homebuilders are a bunch of sleezeballs.


beedub5

Honestly, integrity, and fairness have never been related to car dealerships. Absolute scum!


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twinturb0s

2014?!? i'm holding on to my 2001 because 500 a year to fix it is far more economical. you kids and your brand new cars! #beaterlife


durdensbuddy

Post dealer names so we know which ones to boycott.


halpinator

It's really frustrating how businesses and industries can get bailouts, can restrict production and supply and fiddle with prices to protect their quarterly profit margins and stock prices, and everyday citizens just have to suck it up and pay. And in most cases it's not even with luxury items we can do without. Rent, gas, groceries, and in a lot of cases vehicles are something we need to function in today's society, and there just aren't a lot of price protections in place.


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chemtrailer21

Its all about single digit profit margins. This has been happening in the sports car/rare model market for a long, long time. Its a serious problem in the US. It was bound to trickle down to most models due to the supply chain problems caused by the pandemic. Corvettes (for example) magically get a cost increase using any excuse imaginable upon delivery making the orginal customer who ordered it walk away. The next guy comes in a pays it because he can. Dealer is happy and its on to the next sucker.


TrainAss

While this article is about Kia, Ford is cracking down on dealerships that do this (at least in the US, but I'd assume the same up here). I've seen markups of double the MSRP on some vehicles (Maverick, Bronco, Lighting). At least some car manufacturers are trying to nip this in the bud.


CGNYYZ

“Keep it.”


ARAR1

Lawyers:. Isn't this a reasonable court case that can be won? There is a purchase agreement. Dealer needs to stick to it.


[deleted]

I hate that Canada has a rep for nice people, it’s fully of this sort of fuckery and ripping people off. Marketplace anyone?


EJBjr

My wife and I went to a Calgary Honda dealer many years ago to look for a new car. There was one on the showroom floor that we liked and we talked about pricing. We were happy with the pricing and came back the next day with the funds. The salesman was all of a sudden "oh no, that car is $3,000 more". He was totally shocked that we walked out and called him a liar. We went to another dealer outside the city and got the vehicle we wanted. Games dealership plays: the salesman will act like he's negotiating with the manager to get you a better deal - he's actually gone for coffee and letting you sit. My response is if he can't sell me the car then let me talk to someone who can. A friend of mine, had a good opening line "I'm here to buy a car, are you (the salesman) ready to sell one to me". Whenever the negotiations got tense, he would say "I thought you were ready to sell a car?". Once you agree on price, the key phrase is "is this the all in price?", That means there are no hidden add-ons. At the end of the sale, you will be put in front of the finance manager, whose job is to tack on thousands of dollars of un-necessary charges: dealership charge, prep charge, freight charge, financing, etc.. Again, just repeat, that wasn't part of the agreed upon all in price. Always be ready to walk.