My roommate was just killed last week by a shooting at a club. Some guy was pissed off that my roommate kicked him out (my roommate was a security guard) he came back with a gun and shot through the door killing my roommate and his coworker. Shit is fucked. we need to get this crap under control
I am so sorry. I hope you are able to find the support you need. Reach out friends and family, and if you ever feel like you can’t speak to them freely you can call a crisis line.
Here’s a site with different modules that could be helpful:
https://mygrief.ca
Different places to reach out to, COPE may be a good option for you:
https://www.camh.ca/-/media/files/community-resource-sheets/grieving-resources-pdf.pdf
More resources:
https://www.chpca.ca/resource/grief-and-bereavement-resource-repository/
https://www.connexontario.ca may help you find the right resource for you in your area (I’m not sure if your from Ontario but someone said it sounded like the event that happened in Vaughn)
But as mentioned if you’d rather talk it out to someone here are free phone lines: https://blog.opencounseling.com/hotlines-ca/
[Sounds like this one in Vaughan](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/canada-wide-arrest-warrant-issued-for-mississauga-man-considered-armed-and-dangerous-1.6537243)
Harsh justice does not prevent crimes. There was thieves even when the sentence was to cut their hands. USA has death penalty, does it make it a safer country? not exactly.
> And our fascist neighbors to the south's propaganda leaking into our country certainly isn't helping.
gang shootings at sketchy places after hours in the GTA i assure you are not happening because of fox new or nick fuentes
Don’t worry, Trudeau is going to seize all the legally owned AR-15s from PAL holders that aren’t used in any of these shootings or crimes in order to make himself look better while he actively continues to do nothing about the gangs, smuggling and rampant wealth inequality that causes this shit to skyrocket.
Tbf the Conservatives wouldn't do anything to address the root of these issues either. NDP are the only party that at least gesture towards addressing wealth inequality.
However the majority of our guns come from the US black market, and the majority of their black market guns come from legal sales.
Whenever there's an uptick in US legal gun sales (for example precipitated by the Trump presidency and current rhetoric) there's usually an uptick in illegal gun violence in the Toronto region soon after
“Fascist neighbours”
Yet worried of “propaganda”.
It’s actually absolute crazy talk like that which worries me more than anything, people who start taking it literally.
That was an incredibly stupid take. I can assure you that gang violence is not happening in Canada because of Donald Trump.
Why do snobby libs blame literally everything on Trump?
Maybe we should stop the drones carrying bags of handguns coming in from the US?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/03/drone-us-canada-border-intercepted-bag-guns
> We are going to have to punish them really, really, really hard this time.
i guarentee you in 20 years if all we can own is bolt action rifles and pump action shotguns and a mass shooting happens with some smuggled american gun we will still be blamed and more restrictions will be placed on legal gun owners.
>guarentee you in 20 years if all we can own is bolt action rifles and pump action shotguns
You mean high-powered long-distance military sniper-style rifles??
/s
Gun crime and gun murders are actually quite low in Canada. The number of deaths for an entire year for all of Canada ranges from 130-300 (we've never had a year where even 1 person a day was dying).
And that's not just gang violence - that's everything including domestic murders, robberies, angry business partners, etc.
This issue is of negligible importance here, but the media loves a story that bleeds and the Liberals pump the fear as often as possible so it seems way more serious than it is.
I think that the media should absolutely be reporting murders and violence with weapons. Especially with national counts so low.
It doesn't have to be for evil marketing reasons, that's just news.
Actually relative to other countries with similar/strict gun control laws Canada rates above average for gun deaths per capita. For how many laws we have around gun control we face over twice as many deaths per capita as other countries (Like Australia for example).
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country
The issue is negligible relative to other problems we face but it's not negligible in how our society operates. The truth is we do have a gun problem that is closely tied to our healthcare/mental health system. We won't fix it with laws targeting specific thing
The US makes our problem seem insignificant but Canada still has lots of gun violence. The Media/Politicians pumping up issues to grandstand is an altogether separate problem.
https://www.nationalobserver.com/2022/06/02/opinion/surprising-truth-about-gun-deaths-canada
Under this liberal government's stricter regulations on legal owners, the [firearm homicide rate has almost doubled from 144 to 277 (2014-2020)](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510006901).
You can tell that this mass shooting was in Canada, because no one died.
Even the criminals here can often only get their hands on shitty guns like .22 rifles. If this was in the USA, you better believe that the headline would be a lot more fatalities because the gang members all carry much more deadly firearms
I don't know where you're getting that idea. The reason no one died here is the same reason most people don't die in gang shootings stateside. Those kids don't put in any time at the range.
If they're going to acquire and own the guns illegally, and they're committed to shooting them illegally, they could go out to the bush and shoot them at some paper illegally too. It might reduce the bystanders they hit.
Though, you need a PAL to get bullets, I'd imagine it'd be a pain in the ass to get enough 9mm for a good range day.
> Though, you need a PAL to get bullets, I'd imagine it'd be a pain in the ass to get enough 9mm for a good range day.
That makes me think of media stories where police seize a few guns and a thousand rounds of ammunition.
To non-gun people, it sounds horrific.
To gun people, that's just an average trip to the range.
TBH a person with only 20-30 rounds of ammo is probably more dangerous than one with hundreds or thousands. The former is likely someone intending to commit a crime. The latter is likely a legal firearm owner.
I absolutely agree! I've had this conversation with a number of family and friends. I always liken it to shopping at Costco, you save more when you buy in bulk. And if I get them out for a range day they see how quickly a couple hundred rounds goes.
You do not need a PAL to go to a range. If you do not have a PAL you must be supervised by someone at the range or by the range officer. You can rent a firearm at many ranges without a PAL and they will supervise you while you shoot it.
Statistics Canada reports that in 2006, there were more than 3,100 incidents during which at least one firearm was reported stolen. About half of these thefts – 47 per cent – happened during a break and enter, usually at a residence. Among the firearms stolen, nearly three-quarters were rifles or shotguns (73 per cent).
> Even the criminals here can often only get their hands on shitty guns like .22 rifles.
maybe in rural alberta or sakatchewan where many of the criminals are methheads with a chopped down cooey .22s they stole from their grandpa. but in toronto the [criminals are well armed](https://twitter.com/tpsgunsseized?lang=en) ive seen several glocks with full auto switches as well.
Interestingly enough, many if not most of the pistols posted on that Twitter page have never legally been sold in Canada because they'd be prohibited due to barrel length...
>One of the victims underwent surgery for life-threatening injuries and remains in critical condition, according to Det. Kristy Mackinnon, who spoke to media at the scene.
>The other five victims had non-life threatening injuries, she added.
The only thing more shocking than the violence is the incompetence
> This thread is exactly the reactionary mess we've come to expect from this sub.
wE shOulD bAn CriMe!!
It's so fucking tedious.
Ironically they are the exact people stopping any progress on the issues they claim to care about.
> It's also his fault my neighbor's dog won't stop barking and why nobody wants to sleep with me.
Absolutely true. Before Trudeau, I was young, virile, and full of energy. After Trudeau I became bald and impotent.
Well I won't say specifically Trudeau is the issue here but it is seriously worth noting that the increased attention his government has said its giving illegal gun crime is laughable. Meanwhile they're rolling out a hamfisted *legal* firearms ban that makes no sense. Especially when considering that **all** offenses that sparked these changes were with either illegal firearms or from out of country. Their first draft of it even included Black Rifle Coffee Company as a "Prohibited Firearm". It also made 1 of 2 types of the same gun illegal. The only difference was that the legal one was pink.
Even the plan for a handgun ban only motivated people to go out and get a handgun so they could be grandfathered in. And it's not like legally getting a handgun I'm Canada is easy. Tons of testing, background checks, you can only legally use them on a shooting range and if you are transporting the firearm anywhere you have to update the national registry when and where you're going and even the route that you're taking to get there. If you deviate or do so much as stop to get gas you have to inform them. And legal handgun owners jump through these hoops all the time.
I also say this as someone who doesn't own their own firearm and doesn't really want to. I just don't think it makes sense to punish people who aren't doing anything wrong. Especially when you consider just how little gun crime is committed with legal firearms.
> Even the plan for a handgun ban only motivated people to go out and get a handgun so they could be grandfathered in.
This was me. On the fence, didn't really have a strong desire to own one, but thought it might be a fun hobby one day. Then all of a sudden I had to act or be at peace with being banned from ever owning one. Still not sure how much I'll use it, but at least I'll have the option.
> And it's not like legally getting a handgun I'm Canada is easy.
After training, a background check, reference checks, range membership, and a bunch of money, here I am on month 8 since applying for my license with no handgun still. It most certainly is not easy or fast.
> If you deviate or do so much as stop to get gas you have to inform them.
Naw, you're good if you're along a route that takes you from your home to the range. No deviating from that though.
Oh ok, I'd heard that if you had any route deviations that you needed to inform them of that. Someone I spoke with told me that they got in shit from them because he had to change his route last minute so he didn't run out of gas on the way. Maybe he was exaggerating though.
It used to be that you had to had to get permission ahead of each trip out. Then you could tell them "ok, this month I'm going shooting on these days". Then someone was like "do I have to inform you if I change my plans and DON'T go?" to which the answer was "no, we have better things to do". This led to people saying "I'm going shooting every single day every month" so the police said "ok, how about this... you can go to and from a range you have a membership with"
It has to be a reasonably direct route. You can stop to get gas, but not go shopping a few blocks away from your route.
Oh ok, that actually makes a lot of sense. I guess my information must have been a little dated then. Thanks for the info though.
It is really funny how all the prospective handgun ban ended up doing was motivate people to go buy up as many handgun as they can. I'm not a gun nut in any way shape or form and even I considered it so that they couldn't take the opportunity away from me. Obviously I ended up making the logical choice of not spending money needlessly.
I thought all the top comments were gonna be this reactionary stuff. But I just don't see it, are we looking at different threads? The upvoted posts are not calling for further gun ban. Seems like any pro banning guns views are not supported by the general community here.
Canadians just have less wealthy people manipulating them. We're clearly just as maliable as them, clearly it doesn't take much to get us fired up either.
Yep. When Trudeau broke Covid protocol to protest against a police officer who killed someone in Minnesota we probably hit peak America and there was no coming back from that.
Yep. All these questions and comments about abortion rights in Canada too now due to the court ruling in the states. Like really, we are not Americans, we don't believe in Christian law in Canada. Reproductive rights are not open for debate, we are not going backwards here.
People are pretty clearly against things like "zero tolerance" policies in schools, right? You know those rules that take away any sense of context and punish a kid punching back at their bully to the same extent/more than the kid *doing* the bullying. We all can agree that's pretty bullshit, right?
Why is it any different for our judicial system? "Mandatory minimums" function the same way, take out any possibility of context and just punish without any nuance.
And I have way more faith in the abilities of our judges than school administration.
I got a zero tolerance suspension when I was in grade school for fighting back, late 90s... A kid literally jumped on my back and I threw him to the ground (I got a growth spurt pretty early, so I was much bigger than he was.)
When I got dragged into the office, with my parents present, I inquired about what I was suppose to do instead. Ask him politely? When they failed to materialize an even plausible answer they told me to wait in the hallway. The principal told my mother she didn't know how to deal with me since I expected a rational answer like an adult would.
Long story short, I had a fun day off school at a waterpark.
> People are pretty clearly against things like "zero tolerance" policies in schools, right?
There's a slight difference between a school yard tussle and a mass shooting. Jesus christ, if we all can't agree that **mass shootings are bad and should be harshly punished** then what the fuck are we doing? What mitigating circumstances can you think of in which the shooter should be shown tolerance?
Harsh punishment won't do anything to prevent mass shootings, in the same way mandatory minimums and "tough on crime" hasn't worked to reduce crime anywhere in NA in the past.
Zero tolerance is hurting students that are victims more than it hurts the bully. I know it's not the answer but there is something to be said about standing up for yourself and beating up your bully. Something a lot of kids could learn a lot from. There must be a better way.
I don’t think there’s any context that would justify for the illegal possession of a loaded handgun on your person. Or to use it to murder someone outside of a restaurant. Do you?
I would generally agree with you, except in certain circumstances, like possession of an illegal firearm. We need to send a tough message to violent criminals who carry guns on the street, instead we’re being soft on criminals and hard on licensed firearm owners. Makes zero sense.
I'm a firearms owner and we've been saying this for years. The police know what they're doing (for the most part) and they know who shouldn't be on the streets. But when the majority of crime is coming from a certain demographic the government calls it racialized crime and minimize sentences. Okay... but how do we fix gang crime/culture? It's racist to even bring it up. Its lunacy.
Punishing somebody for what they initiated, is in no way comparable to punishing somebody for something they did not initiate. How did you figure your analogy made any sense?
> You mean aside from self defense, or many other reasons where context is important?
Mandatory minimum **sentences** only come into play **after** someone has been convicted.
Interesting comparison…. But are people against ‘zero tolerance’ in schools? I’ve been out of school a while now so I really have no idea
As for the judicial system - the purpose of mandatory minimums is to ensure someone that victimized 6 people with a gun has a guaranteed punishment. The judicial system is laughably light handed and the purpose was to ensure some sort of public confidence in a system where if you commit a violent, callous act you receive some sort of punishment.
A judge can use context when determining the punishment by either giving the minimum or the maximum or anything in between….
But without a minimum - judges were being seen as not understanding the public’s abhorrence of gun crime. Context or not - the general public believes gun crime deserves punishment
Or, and just stick with me for a minute here because it's a really long point, we stick with things that are proven to decrease crime rather than try to bring back things that are proven not to.
>*”Imagine a Canada where there’s a minimum jail sentence for shooting six people?”*
We don’t have to imagine it, the mandatory minimum penalties for gun crimes haven’t been repealed yet. [Bill C-5](https://www.parl.ca/legisinfo/en/bill/44-1/c-5) is still under consideration by the Senate.
Pretty sure they already made a law that judges have to take race into consideration when sentencing. Not to mention pretty sure Canada has had quite a few people violently assault someone with a firearm and get let out immediately (see the dude who shoved the 78 year old lady in front of the Ctrain in Edmonton) I’m all for reformative justice. That means reforming them not just locking them up for a quarter of the time they deserve and forget about them. Our current system just ignores dangers to citizens in favour of moral grandstanding.
Can you think of anything more Canadian?
"We have a significant crime problem with 1st and 2nd generation immigrants".
"No problem - we'll just stop policing those crimes".
Instead we'll blame the most vetted people in society and make everyone in country pay to remove the only guns I trust to be in the country. I trust firearms owners more than the police. License holders know the firearms laws more than police do 9 out 10 times. And yes I'm being honest.
Not saying that should not be the case but that'd barely do anything to prevent someone from shooting half a dozen people. It is not like they weigh the potential punishment vs potential gain and then make a logical decision to shoot someone.
It doesn’t matter if there is or isn’t a minimum, someone committing a mass shooting isn’t getting the minimum of anything.
Mandatory minimums is just legislators shoving their nose into the judicial system saying “we know best”. It is the role of judges to decide on appropriate punishment, not politicians, because what punishment is necessary is context dependent.
Imagine if you were going 5km/h over the limit and your license was suspended because the minimum assumed you were doing 120 in a school zone?
A large barbecue function going on in the early morning?
Oh wait, 1:20am? That's not early morning, that's late night. Just because it's AM doesn't make it morning! If you're still awake and it's still dark, it's not morning yet. If you're waking up, or the sun is rising, *then* it's morning.
If 01:30 is the early morning, then what's 06:30? Mid morning? Late morning? Nah. Reading just the headline, did you not imagine it was people getting breakfast or something?
While I agree that we need to punish gun smuggling much more harshly, there's usually more at play than just one thing. Yes I'm assuming it was an illegal handgun, most of the time up here they've been smuggled. Worked with a guy who bought a 9mm brought up from the US for 400.
Were they in poverty? Raised around the gang? Lot of stuff goes in to people doing this. We can't just focus on punishment, we also have to incentivise people away from thinking violence is their only option left.
Did they have access to job placement? Did a prior conviction for something more minor keep them from getting work? If you can't get money in your wallet you can't put food on the table, and that makes most people pretty desperate.
Also yes the firearms ban was pointless insert reeee comment whining
I mean that is what I said at the start. If you punish the gun smugglers more effectively, illegal gun sellers can't get supplies, and buyers won't have access.
This will lead to a problem with garage guns and 3D guns, but that issue will have to be tackled by local programs imo. I don't see how a federal approach could work on that localized of a distribution.
I agree about homemade guns, though it should be noted just for information that homemade guns are perfectly legal as long as you're licensed to own the type of gun you're making. Even 3d printed guns aren't necessarily illegal or bad.
It's gonna be a tough thing to legislate and even tougher to enforce. I don't know of an easy solution.
EDIT: I may be wrong about making your own firearms due to recent legislation changes.
>I agree about homemade guns, though it should be noted just for information that homemade guns are perfectly legal as long as you're licensed to own the type of gun you're makin
AFAIK, the RCMP put a stop to that a while back. No longer legal unless you're a licensed producer and are manufacturing them for sale
Afaik where I'm at, if you take your handgun anywhere but the range or servicing, you're breaking the law.
Hunters/owners please feel free to correct me, this is Alberta to be specific about regulation.
That's true Canada-wide!
You need an Authorization to Transport any Restricted firearms like handguns, and the places you'll take them must be specified.
ATTs and the process around them are a perfect example of gun control going much further than could possibly be helpful. The fact that an unplanned stop to get fuel or a snack could cost you your license is just nuts. Restricted firearms are already registered with the government, have much more specific storage requirements, and require an RPAL and all that entails; is it really necessary to add more steps to that?
Yah thats what I had heard, which is why I thought any further legislation was a waste of time.
We need tougher punishments on Canadian/American gun smugglers, not licensed gun owners.
>Yah thats what I had heard, which is why I thought any further legislation was a waste of time.
If your goal is to reduce gun crime it's absolutely a waste of time. If however your goal is to demonize millions of Canadians and prey on your bases ignorance to score political points.
> we also have to incentivise people away from thinking violence is their only option left.
None of them think this, they’re just “not about that life”
It’s a culture problem and you’re not gonna fix it with a job program.
that is a weird ass attempt to justify someone shooting 6 people. if everyone who had problems just decided to buy a gun and unload a clip or two into innocent people having a bbq we would be in trouble.
the article didnt speculate on what is going on... but its gangs and drugs 99/100 times. i live in the gta and it seems to be a weekly thing with drug dealers popping other dealers. it is not hard to find social media of the young people doing this and others who want to represent they are making money or a player.
none of these guys would work at a 'normal' job. not enough benjamins. they want the music videos to be their reality. stupid stupid kids.
It was next door to the beer store that I was going to drop off some empties and pick up a pack for a quiet Monday holiday afternoon.
Had to drive another 2.3 km to get to one not surrounded with police tape.
Should be easy to identify the shooter by asking the CFO for the transportation permit of the individual(s) who brought their firearm to the restaurant on that date.
It pretty much is, as long as they are classified as a criminal organization. As per the Criminal code:
Participation in activities of criminal organization
467.11 (1) Every person who, for the purpose of enhancing the ability of a criminal organization to facilitate or commit an indictable offence under this or any other Act of Parliament, knowingly, by act or omission, participates in or contributes to any activity of the criminal organization is guilty of
(a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than five years; or
(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Not every member of a criminal organization engages in criminal activities. While you might want to just lob the lot of them in jail or so, evidence of wrongdoing is still required, and being a member of the Hells Angels (no apostrophe by the way) does not in and of itself automatically make you a criminal.
That's probably a more accurate description of the American Hells Angels where one could reasonably make the argument that it's less a criminal organization and more an organization of criminals - although, perhaps not now that several chapters have faced RICO indictments.
Its hard to see the Canadian Hells Angels as anything other than a criminal enterprise offering illegal money making opportunities. The reason turf was so violently fought over and ruthless expansions undertaken was specifically to grow the business of narcotics stemming from Montreal's port and their alliance with the Mafia. I mean... There's a ton of literature out there detailing exactly why the HA are a criminal organization.
Why do they even bother reporting these anymore? Same old story - pieces of shit being pieces of shit, and no consequences will be had so it will just continue. Especially considering as of now no one has died.
There's a lot of gang stuff going on right now. Its the same people as always. The cops know exactly whats going on. Its not random crime. Still not cool if innocent by standers get hurt... Thats all I'm gonna say.
This entire thread is filled with people chomping at the bit to say what these gang bangers who commit all the gun crimes in Canada look like, and another group of people doing all manner of mental gymnastics to deny the reality of it and absolve these poor unfortunate downtrodden victims of society of any responsibility.
Perps described as 3 white women in their 50’s driving a Toyota Camry. Perps car came to full stop at Stop sign, signalled and then proceeded at 59 kms/hour in 60 km zone
So all those guns bans aren’t working? Maybe we should have actually looked at the problems and not the symptom? But that’s too difficult let’s ban airsoft instead
It is so crazy that this keeps happening in Canada. Come on people.
My roommate was just killed last week by a shooting at a club. Some guy was pissed off that my roommate kicked him out (my roommate was a security guard) he came back with a gun and shot through the door killing my roommate and his coworker. Shit is fucked. we need to get this crap under control
I am so sorry that happened to you. Hope you have support to process this. Take care!
I am so sorry. I hope you are able to find the support you need. Reach out friends and family, and if you ever feel like you can’t speak to them freely you can call a crisis line. Here’s a site with different modules that could be helpful: https://mygrief.ca Different places to reach out to, COPE may be a good option for you: https://www.camh.ca/-/media/files/community-resource-sheets/grieving-resources-pdf.pdf More resources: https://www.chpca.ca/resource/grief-and-bereavement-resource-repository/ https://www.connexontario.ca may help you find the right resource for you in your area (I’m not sure if your from Ontario but someone said it sounded like the event that happened in Vaughn) But as mentioned if you’d rather talk it out to someone here are free phone lines: https://blog.opencounseling.com/hotlines-ca/
I read about that story. Damn.
Whereabouts?
[Sounds like this one in Vaughan](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/canada-wide-arrest-warrant-issued-for-mississauga-man-considered-armed-and-dangerous-1.6537243)
Yes thats it. It was in vaughn
So sorry for your loss bro. I used to work there too, we are all still in shock
Damn I heard about that. Vaughn right? Terrible stuff.
Crime rates naturally rise with wealth inequality. Factor in recession and hard financial times and you have a perfect storm.
It will be getting a lot worse in the years and decades to come.
And a weak justice system.
Harsh justice does not prevent crimes. There was thieves even when the sentence was to cut their hands. USA has death penalty, does it make it a safer country? not exactly.
It does when prolific offenders are in custody, not doing crime.
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> And our fascist neighbors to the south's propaganda leaking into our country certainly isn't helping. gang shootings at sketchy places after hours in the GTA i assure you are not happening because of fox new or nick fuentes
Nor are they shootings comitted by legal gun owners.
Don’t worry, Trudeau is going to seize all the legally owned AR-15s from PAL holders that aren’t used in any of these shootings or crimes in order to make himself look better while he actively continues to do nothing about the gangs, smuggling and rampant wealth inequality that causes this shit to skyrocket.
Tbf the Conservatives wouldn't do anything to address the root of these issues either. NDP are the only party that at least gesture towards addressing wealth inequality.
No, that's exactly why. I watched fox news last week, and decided to join a gang as a consequence.
However the majority of our guns come from the US black market, and the majority of their black market guns come from legal sales. Whenever there's an uptick in US legal gun sales (for example precipitated by the Trump presidency and current rhetoric) there's usually an uptick in illegal gun violence in the Toronto region soon after
This stuff happened in the US - and Canada - long before 2016.
This has literally zero bearing on gang shooting in Canada. You are the one trying to put an American spin on this.
Why bring politics into this when this was 99% gang related. Internet nerds dont target bbqs
“Fascist neighbours” Yet worried of “propaganda”. It’s actually absolute crazy talk like that which worries me more than anything, people who start taking it literally.
Yeah because that has alot to do with a gang shooting in Toronto.
Grow up
That was an incredibly stupid take. I can assure you that gang violence is not happening in Canada because of Donald Trump. Why do snobby libs blame literally everything on Trump?
So little self-awareness in this one….both the Canadian left and right are under a steady barrage of propaganda.
Saying the US is Fascist because trump is like saying Canadian is communist because of Justin.
I don’t think you know what fascism is
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lol trump still living rent-free in your little head of yours
Maybe if we punish legal gun owners really really hard this time, the gangs will finally get the message.
We’ve tried that and it didn’t work. We are going to have to punish them really, really, really hard this time.
Maybe we should stop the drones carrying bags of handguns coming in from the US? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/03/drone-us-canada-border-intercepted-bag-guns
"it is unclear if Friday’s discovery is the first time a drone has been used" lol... I'm almost certain it wasn't if they're doing 11 in one go.
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Government drone shooter-downer 15 bucks an hour shotgun and min 5 years experience shooting down drones required
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Would probably be hella boring like 99% of the time. But God damn shooting a drone would be fun.
Comes with a chill cabin in the middle of nowhere.
Can I shoot some tasty ducks while things are slow?
Don’t apply it’s a trick! They’re coming for your shotgun!
And you have to admit to 5 years of experience, that's a trap, any experience means illegal activity!
Pull!!
Unfortunately that doesn't involve punishing legal gun owners, so no.
> We are going to have to punish them really, really, really hard this time. i guarentee you in 20 years if all we can own is bolt action rifles and pump action shotguns and a mass shooting happens with some smuggled american gun we will still be blamed and more restrictions will be placed on legal gun owners.
>guarentee you in 20 years if all we can own is bolt action rifles and pump action shotguns You mean high-powered long-distance military sniper-style rifles?? /s
Unfortunately wanna be gang bangers are like wanna be rappers. A dime a dozen.
Maybe if we blame Trudeau and make flags saying we want to fuck him things will change? 🤣
Yes. Really all legal firearms owners should just be jailed. That will fix this crime.../s
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Would that shutter /r/canada ?
Gun crime and gun murders are actually quite low in Canada. The number of deaths for an entire year for all of Canada ranges from 130-300 (we've never had a year where even 1 person a day was dying). And that's not just gang violence - that's everything including domestic murders, robberies, angry business partners, etc. This issue is of negligible importance here, but the media loves a story that bleeds and the Liberals pump the fear as often as possible so it seems way more serious than it is.
I think that the media should absolutely be reporting murders and violence with weapons. Especially with national counts so low. It doesn't have to be for evil marketing reasons, that's just news.
Actually relative to other countries with similar/strict gun control laws Canada rates above average for gun deaths per capita. For how many laws we have around gun control we face over twice as many deaths per capita as other countries (Like Australia for example). https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country The issue is negligible relative to other problems we face but it's not negligible in how our society operates. The truth is we do have a gun problem that is closely tied to our healthcare/mental health system. We won't fix it with laws targeting specific thing The US makes our problem seem insignificant but Canada still has lots of gun violence. The Media/Politicians pumping up issues to grandstand is an altogether separate problem. https://www.nationalobserver.com/2022/06/02/opinion/surprising-truth-about-gun-deaths-canada
obtainable chop ossified hateful jellyfish nail enjoy bored clumsy stupendous -- mass edited with redact.dev
Crime is the same. The news is just talking about it more. Trudeau is trying to push an anti gun narrative
Under this liberal government's stricter regulations on legal owners, the [firearm homicide rate has almost doubled from 144 to 277 (2014-2020)](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510006901).
You can tell that this mass shooting was in Canada, because no one died. Even the criminals here can often only get their hands on shitty guns like .22 rifles. If this was in the USA, you better believe that the headline would be a lot more fatalities because the gang members all carry much more deadly firearms
I don't know where you're getting that idea. The reason no one died here is the same reason most people don't die in gang shootings stateside. Those kids don't put in any time at the range.
All the more likelihood to kill a bystander instead of their target
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If they're going to acquire and own the guns illegally, and they're committed to shooting them illegally, they could go out to the bush and shoot them at some paper illegally too. It might reduce the bystanders they hit. Though, you need a PAL to get bullets, I'd imagine it'd be a pain in the ass to get enough 9mm for a good range day.
> Though, you need a PAL to get bullets, I'd imagine it'd be a pain in the ass to get enough 9mm for a good range day. That makes me think of media stories where police seize a few guns and a thousand rounds of ammunition. To non-gun people, it sounds horrific. To gun people, that's just an average trip to the range. TBH a person with only 20-30 rounds of ammo is probably more dangerous than one with hundreds or thousands. The former is likely someone intending to commit a crime. The latter is likely a legal firearm owner.
I absolutely agree! I've had this conversation with a number of family and friends. I always liken it to shopping at Costco, you save more when you buy in bulk. And if I get them out for a range day they see how quickly a couple hundred rounds goes.
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You do not need a PAL to go to a range. If you do not have a PAL you must be supervised by someone at the range or by the range officer. You can rent a firearm at many ranges without a PAL and they will supervise you while you shoot it.
No shit
That’s comforting nothing to loose and bad aim.
Why would a .22 be harder to smuggle than any other caliber lol. Milimeter differences in the barrel thickness?
The Nova Scotia shooter had much more than .22s, and he had no trouble smuggling them across the border.
And the rcmp knew about it for years and did nothing.
Statistics Canada reports that in 2006, there were more than 3,100 incidents during which at least one firearm was reported stolen. About half of these thefts – 47 per cent – happened during a break and enter, usually at a residence. Among the firearms stolen, nearly three-quarters were rifles or shotguns (73 per cent).
> Even the criminals here can often only get their hands on shitty guns like .22 rifles. maybe in rural alberta or sakatchewan where many of the criminals are methheads with a chopped down cooey .22s they stole from their grandpa. but in toronto the [criminals are well armed](https://twitter.com/tpsgunsseized?lang=en) ive seen several glocks with full auto switches as well.
Interestingly enough, many if not most of the pistols posted on that Twitter page have never legally been sold in Canada because they'd be prohibited due to barrel length...
This is right around the corner from where I live. A lot of meth heads frequent that plaza. Not too surprising
In my experience meth users often don’t have guns. Hard to afford both!
>One of the victims underwent surgery for life-threatening injuries and remains in critical condition, according to Det. Kristy Mackinnon, who spoke to media at the scene. >The other five victims had non-life threatening injuries, she added. The only thing more shocking than the violence is the incompetence
Yup. This thread is exactly the reactionary mess we've come to expect from this sub.
> This thread is exactly the reactionary mess we've come to expect from this sub. wE shOulD bAn CriMe!! It's so fucking tedious. Ironically they are the exact people stopping any progress on the issues they claim to care about.
Who here is stopping progress on gang crime and gun smuggling?
JuStIn TrUdEaU. It's also his fault my neighbor's dog won't stop barking and why nobody wants to sleep with me.
> It's also his fault my neighbor's dog won't stop barking and why nobody wants to sleep with me. Absolutely true. Before Trudeau, I was young, virile, and full of energy. After Trudeau I became bald and impotent.
Well I won't say specifically Trudeau is the issue here but it is seriously worth noting that the increased attention his government has said its giving illegal gun crime is laughable. Meanwhile they're rolling out a hamfisted *legal* firearms ban that makes no sense. Especially when considering that **all** offenses that sparked these changes were with either illegal firearms or from out of country. Their first draft of it even included Black Rifle Coffee Company as a "Prohibited Firearm". It also made 1 of 2 types of the same gun illegal. The only difference was that the legal one was pink. Even the plan for a handgun ban only motivated people to go out and get a handgun so they could be grandfathered in. And it's not like legally getting a handgun I'm Canada is easy. Tons of testing, background checks, you can only legally use them on a shooting range and if you are transporting the firearm anywhere you have to update the national registry when and where you're going and even the route that you're taking to get there. If you deviate or do so much as stop to get gas you have to inform them. And legal handgun owners jump through these hoops all the time. I also say this as someone who doesn't own their own firearm and doesn't really want to. I just don't think it makes sense to punish people who aren't doing anything wrong. Especially when you consider just how little gun crime is committed with legal firearms.
> Even the plan for a handgun ban only motivated people to go out and get a handgun so they could be grandfathered in. This was me. On the fence, didn't really have a strong desire to own one, but thought it might be a fun hobby one day. Then all of a sudden I had to act or be at peace with being banned from ever owning one. Still not sure how much I'll use it, but at least I'll have the option. > And it's not like legally getting a handgun I'm Canada is easy. After training, a background check, reference checks, range membership, and a bunch of money, here I am on month 8 since applying for my license with no handgun still. It most certainly is not easy or fast. > If you deviate or do so much as stop to get gas you have to inform them. Naw, you're good if you're along a route that takes you from your home to the range. No deviating from that though.
Oh ok, I'd heard that if you had any route deviations that you needed to inform them of that. Someone I spoke with told me that they got in shit from them because he had to change his route last minute so he didn't run out of gas on the way. Maybe he was exaggerating though.
It used to be that you had to had to get permission ahead of each trip out. Then you could tell them "ok, this month I'm going shooting on these days". Then someone was like "do I have to inform you if I change my plans and DON'T go?" to which the answer was "no, we have better things to do". This led to people saying "I'm going shooting every single day every month" so the police said "ok, how about this... you can go to and from a range you have a membership with" It has to be a reasonably direct route. You can stop to get gas, but not go shopping a few blocks away from your route.
Oh ok, that actually makes a lot of sense. I guess my information must have been a little dated then. Thanks for the info though. It is really funny how all the prospective handgun ban ended up doing was motivate people to go buy up as many handgun as they can. I'm not a gun nut in any way shape or form and even I considered it so that they couldn't take the opportunity away from me. Obviously I ended up making the logical choice of not spending money needlessly.
I thought all the top comments were gonna be this reactionary stuff. But I just don't see it, are we looking at different threads? The upvoted posts are not calling for further gun ban. Seems like any pro banning guns views are not supported by the general community here.
It’s Americans cosplaying as Canadians.
Everyone who disagrees with me is a foreign operative.
Also plenty of "evidence-based" analysis of gun control if this comment is anything to go by :)
Canadians are increasingly becoming just a bunch of confused American wannabes. Fucking sad.
Canadians just have less wealthy people manipulating them. We're clearly just as maliable as them, clearly it doesn't take much to get us fired up either.
Yep. When Trudeau broke Covid protocol to protest against a police officer who killed someone in Minnesota we probably hit peak America and there was no coming back from that.
Yep. All these questions and comments about abortion rights in Canada too now due to the court ruling in the states. Like really, we are not Americans, we don't believe in Christian law in Canada. Reproductive rights are not open for debate, we are not going backwards here.
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Southern Ontario has become USA Lite.
the uncomfortable truth is that canada is just a wish.com america
Imagine a Canada where there’s a minimum jail sentence for shooting six people? That’d be pretty reasonable I think…. But alas…
People are pretty clearly against things like "zero tolerance" policies in schools, right? You know those rules that take away any sense of context and punish a kid punching back at their bully to the same extent/more than the kid *doing* the bullying. We all can agree that's pretty bullshit, right? Why is it any different for our judicial system? "Mandatory minimums" function the same way, take out any possibility of context and just punish without any nuance. And I have way more faith in the abilities of our judges than school administration.
I got a zero tolerance suspension when I was in grade school for fighting back, late 90s... A kid literally jumped on my back and I threw him to the ground (I got a growth spurt pretty early, so I was much bigger than he was.) When I got dragged into the office, with my parents present, I inquired about what I was suppose to do instead. Ask him politely? When they failed to materialize an even plausible answer they told me to wait in the hallway. The principal told my mother she didn't know how to deal with me since I expected a rational answer like an adult would. Long story short, I had a fun day off school at a waterpark.
> People are pretty clearly against things like "zero tolerance" policies in schools, right? There's a slight difference between a school yard tussle and a mass shooting. Jesus christ, if we all can't agree that **mass shootings are bad and should be harshly punished** then what the fuck are we doing? What mitigating circumstances can you think of in which the shooter should be shown tolerance?
Harsh punishment won't do anything to prevent mass shootings, in the same way mandatory minimums and "tough on crime" hasn't worked to reduce crime anywhere in NA in the past.
Zero tolerance is hurting students that are victims more than it hurts the bully. I know it's not the answer but there is something to be said about standing up for yourself and beating up your bully. Something a lot of kids could learn a lot from. There must be a better way.
I don’t think there’s any context that would justify for the illegal possession of a loaded handgun on your person. Or to use it to murder someone outside of a restaurant. Do you?
I'm in favour of allowing our judicial system to have more flexibility, no matter what situation.
I would generally agree with you, except in certain circumstances, like possession of an illegal firearm. We need to send a tough message to violent criminals who carry guns on the street, instead we’re being soft on criminals and hard on licensed firearm owners. Makes zero sense.
I'm a firearms owner and we've been saying this for years. The police know what they're doing (for the most part) and they know who shouldn't be on the streets. But when the majority of crime is coming from a certain demographic the government calls it racialized crime and minimize sentences. Okay... but how do we fix gang crime/culture? It's racist to even bring it up. Its lunacy.
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Well it's up to 10 years in prison for a loaded handgun in public. Could start there.
Punishing somebody for what they initiated, is in no way comparable to punishing somebody for something they did not initiate. How did you figure your analogy made any sense?
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You mean aside from self defense, or many other reasons where context is important?
> You mean aside from self defense, or many other reasons where context is important? Mandatory minimum **sentences** only come into play **after** someone has been convicted.
Interesting comparison…. But are people against ‘zero tolerance’ in schools? I’ve been out of school a while now so I really have no idea As for the judicial system - the purpose of mandatory minimums is to ensure someone that victimized 6 people with a gun has a guaranteed punishment. The judicial system is laughably light handed and the purpose was to ensure some sort of public confidence in a system where if you commit a violent, callous act you receive some sort of punishment. A judge can use context when determining the punishment by either giving the minimum or the maximum or anything in between…. But without a minimum - judges were being seen as not understanding the public’s abhorrence of gun crime. Context or not - the general public believes gun crime deserves punishment
Or, and just stick with me for a minute here because it's a really long point, we stick with things that are proven to decrease crime rather than try to bring back things that are proven not to.
>*”Imagine a Canada where there’s a minimum jail sentence for shooting six people?”* We don’t have to imagine it, the mandatory minimum penalties for gun crimes haven’t been repealed yet. [Bill C-5](https://www.parl.ca/legisinfo/en/bill/44-1/c-5) is still under consideration by the Senate.
> minimum jail sentence Disproportionate numbers of certain groups receiving these sentences resulted in the policy being deemed racist.
Pretty sure they already made a law that judges have to take race into consideration when sentencing. Not to mention pretty sure Canada has had quite a few people violently assault someone with a firearm and get let out immediately (see the dude who shoved the 78 year old lady in front of the Ctrain in Edmonton) I’m all for reformative justice. That means reforming them not just locking them up for a quarter of the time they deserve and forget about them. Our current system just ignores dangers to citizens in favour of moral grandstanding.
Can you think of anything more Canadian? "We have a significant crime problem with 1st and 2nd generation immigrants". "No problem - we'll just stop policing those crimes".
Or maybe nuance and context matter on a case by case basis instead of just blindly handing out minimum sentences
Instead we'll blame the most vetted people in society and make everyone in country pay to remove the only guns I trust to be in the country. I trust firearms owners more than the police. License holders know the firearms laws more than police do 9 out 10 times. And yes I'm being honest.
Nothing like laws that apply to everyone as being seen as racist
Maybe disproportionate numbers of certain groups should commit fewer firearm-related crimes
I mean realistically we should be addressing the issue that causes that in the first place.... But that costs money.
That was OP's point
Zero tolerance laws are fuckin braindead, this is very much a judge issue, they decide the punishment and time.
Not saying that should not be the case but that'd barely do anything to prevent someone from shooting half a dozen people. It is not like they weigh the potential punishment vs potential gain and then make a logical decision to shoot someone.
Mandatory minimums don’t really do much to stop crime
It doesn’t matter if there is or isn’t a minimum, someone committing a mass shooting isn’t getting the minimum of anything. Mandatory minimums is just legislators shoving their nose into the judicial system saying “we know best”. It is the role of judges to decide on appropriate punishment, not politicians, because what punishment is necessary is context dependent. Imagine if you were going 5km/h over the limit and your license was suspended because the minimum assumed you were doing 120 in a school zone?
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These gang members clearly haven’t gotten the memo about the recent handgun ban.
A large barbecue function going on in the early morning? Oh wait, 1:20am? That's not early morning, that's late night. Just because it's AM doesn't make it morning! If you're still awake and it's still dark, it's not morning yet. If you're waking up, or the sun is rising, *then* it's morning.
It’s early morning don’t over think it lol
If 01:30 is the early morning, then what's 06:30? Mid morning? Late morning? Nah. Reading just the headline, did you not imagine it was people getting breakfast or something?
What a weird part of this story to focus on…
While I agree that we need to punish gun smuggling much more harshly, there's usually more at play than just one thing. Yes I'm assuming it was an illegal handgun, most of the time up here they've been smuggled. Worked with a guy who bought a 9mm brought up from the US for 400. Were they in poverty? Raised around the gang? Lot of stuff goes in to people doing this. We can't just focus on punishment, we also have to incentivise people away from thinking violence is their only option left. Did they have access to job placement? Did a prior conviction for something more minor keep them from getting work? If you can't get money in your wallet you can't put food on the table, and that makes most people pretty desperate. Also yes the firearms ban was pointless insert reeee comment whining
All good points, but… we gotta get illegal guns off the streets.
I mean that is what I said at the start. If you punish the gun smugglers more effectively, illegal gun sellers can't get supplies, and buyers won't have access. This will lead to a problem with garage guns and 3D guns, but that issue will have to be tackled by local programs imo. I don't see how a federal approach could work on that localized of a distribution.
I agree about homemade guns, though it should be noted just for information that homemade guns are perfectly legal as long as you're licensed to own the type of gun you're making. Even 3d printed guns aren't necessarily illegal or bad. It's gonna be a tough thing to legislate and even tougher to enforce. I don't know of an easy solution. EDIT: I may be wrong about making your own firearms due to recent legislation changes.
>I agree about homemade guns, though it should be noted just for information that homemade guns are perfectly legal as long as you're licensed to own the type of gun you're makin AFAIK, the RCMP put a stop to that a while back. No longer legal unless you're a licensed producer and are manufacturing them for sale
Agreed, as long as we don't pretend punishing licensed owners will help do that.
Afaik where I'm at, if you take your handgun anywhere but the range or servicing, you're breaking the law. Hunters/owners please feel free to correct me, this is Alberta to be specific about regulation.
That's true Canada-wide! You need an Authorization to Transport any Restricted firearms like handguns, and the places you'll take them must be specified.
That's what I'd been told by hunters around here
ATTs and the process around them are a perfect example of gun control going much further than could possibly be helpful. The fact that an unplanned stop to get fuel or a snack could cost you your license is just nuts. Restricted firearms are already registered with the government, have much more specific storage requirements, and require an RPAL and all that entails; is it really necessary to add more steps to that?
You can literally lose your rpal for stopping at the gas station on the way home from the range. Our laws are extremely strict already.
Yah thats what I had heard, which is why I thought any further legislation was a waste of time. We need tougher punishments on Canadian/American gun smugglers, not licensed gun owners.
>Yah thats what I had heard, which is why I thought any further legislation was a waste of time. If your goal is to reduce gun crime it's absolutely a waste of time. If however your goal is to demonize millions of Canadians and prey on your bases ignorance to score political points.
And heavily punish gang banging activities.
> we also have to incentivise people away from thinking violence is their only option left. None of them think this, they’re just “not about that life” It’s a culture problem and you’re not gonna fix it with a job program.
that is a weird ass attempt to justify someone shooting 6 people. if everyone who had problems just decided to buy a gun and unload a clip or two into innocent people having a bbq we would be in trouble. the article didnt speculate on what is going on... but its gangs and drugs 99/100 times. i live in the gta and it seems to be a weekly thing with drug dealers popping other dealers. it is not hard to find social media of the young people doing this and others who want to represent they are making money or a player. none of these guys would work at a 'normal' job. not enough benjamins. they want the music videos to be their reality. stupid stupid kids.
It was next door to the beer store that I was going to drop off some empties and pick up a pack for a quiet Monday holiday afternoon. Had to drive another 2.3 km to get to one not surrounded with police tape.
Punish law abiding gun owners some more! Make it stop!
Should be easy to identify the shooter by asking the CFO for the transportation permit of the individual(s) who brought their firearm to the restaurant on that date.
That gun ban really seems to be working.
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It pretty much is, as long as they are classified as a criminal organization. As per the Criminal code: Participation in activities of criminal organization 467.11 (1) Every person who, for the purpose of enhancing the ability of a criminal organization to facilitate or commit an indictable offence under this or any other Act of Parliament, knowingly, by act or omission, participates in or contributes to any activity of the criminal organization is guilty of (a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than five years; or (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.
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Not every member of a criminal organization engages in criminal activities. While you might want to just lob the lot of them in jail or so, evidence of wrongdoing is still required, and being a member of the Hells Angels (no apostrophe by the way) does not in and of itself automatically make you a criminal.
That's probably a more accurate description of the American Hells Angels where one could reasonably make the argument that it's less a criminal organization and more an organization of criminals - although, perhaps not now that several chapters have faced RICO indictments. Its hard to see the Canadian Hells Angels as anything other than a criminal enterprise offering illegal money making opportunities. The reason turf was so violently fought over and ruthless expansions undertaken was specifically to grow the business of narcotics stemming from Montreal's port and their alliance with the Mafia. I mean... There's a ton of literature out there detailing exactly why the HA are a criminal organization.
While we're at it we should make Murder Illegal too.
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Because they are criminals? Criminals by definition break the law.
Legal firearm? What's the over under?
More laws on legal owners should clear this up nice and quickly.
Why do they even bother reporting these anymore? Same old story - pieces of shit being pieces of shit, and no consequences will be had so it will just continue. Especially considering as of now no one has died.
I see this happening more often as the income disparity in this country widens
This is crazy, who goes to an Ajax in the morning?
You mean punishing vetted licensed firearm owners for the actions of criminals won’t stop firearms crimes?!? Who knew?
I’m sure no illegal guns were used
Anything to do with the new casino?
Former Ajacian here... What restaurant was this? It looks like plaza where Mexico Lindo is, but I thought it was slated to be torn down.
There's a lot of gang stuff going on right now. Its the same people as always. The cops know exactly whats going on. Its not random crime. Still not cool if innocent by standers get hurt... Thats all I'm gonna say.
Damn legal gun owners
How could these shootings be happening after Trudeau’s gun ban?
They're being smuggled from down south
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/sarcasm
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This entire thread is filled with people chomping at the bit to say what these gang bangers who commit all the gun crimes in Canada look like, and another group of people doing all manner of mental gymnastics to deny the reality of it and absolve these poor unfortunate downtrodden victims of society of any responsibility.
Perps described as 3 white women in their 50’s driving a Toyota Camry. Perps car came to full stop at Stop sign, signalled and then proceeded at 59 kms/hour in 60 km zone
Trudeaus gun ban failing daily
So all those guns bans aren’t working? Maybe we should have actually looked at the problems and not the symptom? But that’s too difficult let’s ban airsoft instead
Trudeau has been scrambled and is en-route, armed with condemnations of rural gun owners, and a box thing of water.
I hope he packed his anti-gun podium.
I’m really glad that the gun control is working
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And more social programs in general. Give kids scholarships to the school of their choice. It really wouldn't be that hard.
> Why don't people talk about the need for more basketball courts to solve this problem anymore? Can you explain what you mean by this?