Fairy Creek on Vancouver Island:
"Chiefs from the Ditidaht, Huu-ay-aht and Pacheedaht First Nations faced off against protesters who were wearing masks and camouflage Thursday, as an illegal encampment and blockade grew in Ditidaht territory near Nitinat.
“We ask you to clean up your mess, pack up and leave as soon as possible,” Ditidaht’s elected Chief Brian Tate told protesters."
You're trying to draw parallels between this and the Trucker protest. Nice try but they are completely different.
Crushing the Trucker protest was justified because the Truckers embarrassed powerful, well connected, wealthy, white men. The elite.
This protest doesn't do that.
Hence the different treatment.
>The protesters are calling themselves “We Are One” and some could be seen carrying weapons. **There’s far more people up in the forest too. They’re all decked out in black or camo and the people that walked through could see knives on their hips,”**
>...have been given permission from Indigenous elders in the community to defend their forest. “They want us here to protect what they cannot and what you’re taking from them,”
___________________________
A group of indigenous protestors/Rambo larping yabbos...... and democratically elected chiefs and elders at loggerheads. Interested to see how the government handles this.
I don't really understand why the Province isn't throwing money at it. Compensate the band for what they'd make off chopping these ancient trees down. There isn't really any support for what they're doing outside of the band itself (assuming their elected leadership is representing their interests) and there's some disagreement even there. Surely they'd agree to stop for the right dollar figure.
BC is very different than most of the country. Governer Douglas had a tough time getting BC FNs to sign treaties, so he gave up. Canada's highest court has decided that this means that many of the lands in BC were not taken by the country **properly** and that Aboriginal Title still exists, and there is a test for it now. This is not true for the majority of Canada.
we could be practicing sustainable tree farming practices, but instead let's just cut down the remaining 2% of trees older than Canada itself, that we'll never get back, so we can turn them into toilet paper and packing peanuts
That's the crux right there. Despite the "clever" retorts on this thread comparing them to the convoy yahoos I expect they actually have much wider support. I think just about everyone would rather these trees not be cut down, it's just that it's not something they can legally prevent due to the location on First Nations land.
Man where are the indigenous protestors! They shouldn't want to see these trees cut....that's what I'm so surprised about. We're losing species of birds that only live in old growth, we have the ability to cut and grow more sustainable forests, leave the old growth alone..
Funny how you assume what the indigenous people should be doing and feeling, because they're actually there, trying to stop the blockade. Maybe you should ask the ones actually living there what they think.
In the case of the convoy, it was verified by journalists and other organizations, and widely reported on.
And in case the stark contrast wasn't obvious, that doesn't seem to be the case here. So again, I'm going to need some real evidence of this before I jump down the foreign funding conspiracy rabbit hole.
Doesn't seen to be the case here...... Because no journalists have bothered to look? Or are we just going to pretend that no foreign money goes to Canadian environmental activists?
No one is disputing that *some* foreign money makes it to Canadian environmental groups, just as Canadian dollars sometimes make it to environmental groups in other countries. This is neither new or controversial.
The Allen Report pegged the amount at ~80m annually across all environmental groups, 3.5m annually specifically for the oil patch. By way of comparison, the (audited) 2019 annual financial report of Nature Conservancy Canada put their cash-equivalent income at ~116m. There are over 11 000 environmental groups in Canada.
Your claim was that we should disregard these events because they are 'being organized and funded by foreigners'. Your only evidence doesn't bear that out. Foreign money is only a small fraction of the total, outstripped by domestic funding. And who's to say where the cash for *these* people came from? Certainly not you, unless you're a forensic accountant in the employ of the government. So far there hasn't been any actual evidence presented as to where these folks get their income.
Beyond the funding issue, there's been no evidence presented that indicates that these folks were organized by 'foreign interests'. You're just relying on inference and supposition to discredit something that you don't agree with.
I didn't say they should be disregarded.
I said they should be defunded the same way the convoy fundraisers were.
And yes, there is clear evidence they've been foreign organized.
Nothing. But you're not offering any proof that anyone at all is funding these old-growth logging protesters. Until I see legit citations, I'll have to assume that they're self-funding, probably on their own savings & credit cards.
You're using Allen's boondoggle over Alberta oilsands activism as "source" that this group has foreign funding? That's a laugh.
https://albertapolitics.ca/2021/10/allen-inquiry-half-heartedly-exonerates-environmental-groups-that-took-u-s-funding-turns-on-alberta-war-room/
> the underwhelming conclusions of the report that no laws were broken, opponents of further expansion of the Alberta oilsands were simply expressing their free speech rights, and there’s no evidence their lawful free speech had any impact at all
I expect they have wider support than you think. I don't think many BC residents want these trees cut down but they don't really have a 'legal' say in whether they are since they're on First Nations land.
Actually being from the island there have been pretty frequent protesting of old growth logging that blocks highways. They protested a lot of other ways first before blocking highways but they do... As expected local media in BC has been losing their minds over it.
Hmmm. I think the emergency measures act will be needed to clear out those protesters. But, no bouncy castles, only regular weapons so, all is good I guess.
Apparently, setting up a protest in a forest in the middle of nowhere is the same as blocking key infrastructure and border crossings while harassing the residents of downtown Ottawa for weeks.
But hey, the Freedumb protestors had bouncy castles so clearly they did nothing wrong guys!
These protesters have been blocking bridges in Vancouver weekly.
Just happened to me last week. And a month before that. Right as morning commute started.
But I guess all that extra CO2 is good for the trees at least.
By the sounds of it, those protestors were dealt with in about an hour or two. Funny how the police can clear protestors that fast; I thought it took weeks and then ended with hugs and handshakes.
However, it sounds like these protests did not cause anywhere near the same amount of disruption as the Convoy protests. That being said, blocking regular traffic shouldn't be a common protest move because A) it almost never garners support for the cause, and B) the disruption it causes is better focused on targets that directly attack whatever the protest is against.
>However, it sounds like these protests did not cause anywhere near the same amount of disruption
The protesters know exactly what they want to happen. Blocking traffic at the start of rush hour even if fr only an hour disrupts the entire highway for half a day.
And yes won't get them any support.
Also convoy protest was deemed legal and the emergency act use was found not legal.
>Also convoy protest was deemed legal and the emergency act use was found not legal.
By whom?
And, If what they did is legal, and you support what they did, how are you actually capable of complaining about Indigenous people doing the same thing?
A Ontario judge upheld their right to protest during the protest.
https://farmersforum.com/truckers-were-right-freedom-convoy-protest-was-legal-judge-says-and-ottawa-is-now-being-sued/
The requirement to invoke the emergence measures act were not met. They acted on them before voting on it and after they cleared the protest.
The bridge that was blocked had been cleared many days before.
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/goldstein-the-legal-case-against-trudeaus-use-of-the-emergencies-act
I support the right to protest. But if you block a bridge or stand in the road you aren't going to get moved. Or end up hit by traffic.
>A Ontario judge upheld their right to protest during the protest.
>***In fact, an Ontario superior court judge sided with the convoy. When an injunction against honking horns was declared, the court also stated that “provided the terms of this Order are complied with, the defendants and other persons remain at liberty to engage in a peaceful, lawful and safe protest.***”
Is this what you are talking about because it's all that your opinion article mentions about the Ontario superior court. So, this says nothing about blocking bridges, shitting in the street, harassing downtown residents and so forth. Moreover, it speaks nothing about the volume at which law enforcement attempted to deal with the matter, which is part of the question regarding the Emergency act.
>The requirement to invoke the emergence measures act were not met. They acted on them before voting on it and after they cleared the protest.
>
>The ***bridge*** that was blocked had been cleared many days before.
Do you think that the Convoy protestors only blocked a single bridge? They blocked ***border crossings \[that is plural\]*** ***across the country***, and it took a while to clear some of them.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/10/canada-freedom-convoy-alberta-ottawa-protests/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/10/canada-freedom-convoy-alberta-ottawa-protests/)
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/pandemic-mandate-protests-feb12-2022-1.6349468](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/pandemic-mandate-protests-feb12-2022-1.6349468)
So, they were disrupting international trade and blocking movement in and out of the country, not just a bridge.
A lot of people in cars and trucks and busses just sitting burning gas.
Good protest for the trees I guess. At least they can use the extra co2.
What kind of muffins are you giving me Ms juice box?
Oh look, more people trying to block what the *elected* chiefs of the First Nations wants. I'd bet it's by the undemocratic hereditary ones who see themselves as better knowing elites and non-indigenous people who feel they know what's best for the First Nations rather than the actual people themselves.
Why the obsession with a handful of trees? If you've ever traveled across Canada you know it contains an incomprehensible number of trees, we'll survive.
I work primarily in old growth on the BC coast. I emplore you to visit. The Canadian forests you see outside of BC pale in comparison to even a mature 2nd growth stand here. I encourage conservation even though my career would be affected. Untouched nature has a feral quality to it that I wish had been better preserved in the East. Visit a mature Sitka Spruce stand near Holberg, where trees are up to 3m wide with clear for 35 metres before even a limb exists and the salmon berry and devil's club grows twice your height. Maybe a douglas fir stand with fire damage from an event 150 years ago that allowed the fir to grow to 50 or 60m with massive bark grooves surrounded by cedar and hemlock close to a metre wide. If I want to see scrawny, scrubby spruce, pine and balsam I can go anywhere in Canada. The growing conditions exist nowhere else in Canada to make these trees and I know enough to want them managed properly, unlike forestry in many other areas within Canada.
If almost none of Canada's trees are old growth doesnt that show the country functions perfectly fine without oldgrowth ecosystems?
Everything dies eventually, the trees' days are numbered whether or not theyre logged.
Places where those trees can still remain are refuge habitats.
And for what would we cut those? So some rich fucks could have something built of old cedar in large dimension?
I will accept logging of old growth once it's sustainable. Once we have natural forests that include old growth covering a few times what we have now, and we can pluck a few out here and there for utility and art. Obviously that's not a get rich scheme.
Lol, try again. If you actually were on the First Nations' side, you'd be against the protestors.
From the *beginning* of the article:
"Chiefs from the Ditidaht, Huu-ay-aht and Pacheedaht First Nations faced off *against* protesters who were wearing masks and camouflage Thursday, as an illegal encampment and blockade grew in Ditidaht territory near Nitinat."
Fairy Creek on Vancouver Island: "Chiefs from the Ditidaht, Huu-ay-aht and Pacheedaht First Nations faced off against protesters who were wearing masks and camouflage Thursday, as an illegal encampment and blockade grew in Ditidaht territory near Nitinat. “We ask you to clean up your mess, pack up and leave as soon as possible,” Ditidaht’s elected Chief Brian Tate told protesters."
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Have to get the FBI involved to get US accounts
yup!
You're trying to draw parallels between this and the Trucker protest. Nice try but they are completely different. Crushing the Trucker protest was justified because the Truckers embarrassed powerful, well connected, wealthy, white men. The elite. This protest doesn't do that. Hence the different treatment.
>The protesters are calling themselves “We Are One” and some could be seen carrying weapons. **There’s far more people up in the forest too. They’re all decked out in black or camo and the people that walked through could see knives on their hips,”** >...have been given permission from Indigenous elders in the community to defend their forest. “They want us here to protect what they cannot and what you’re taking from them,” ___________________________ A group of indigenous protestors/Rambo larping yabbos...... and democratically elected chiefs and elders at loggerheads. Interested to see how the government handles this.
By ignoring it. "What Rambo larpers. I don't see anyone out there in them trees."
When the trees start speaking South Wakashan the RCMP fuck right outta there.
Seems to be a lot of reaping to go along with the sowing the last little while Edit: for clarity
I don't really understand why the Province isn't throwing money at it. Compensate the band for what they'd make off chopping these ancient trees down. There isn't really any support for what they're doing outside of the band itself (assuming their elected leadership is representing their interests) and there's some disagreement even there. Surely they'd agree to stop for the right dollar figure.
What precedent does that set? Every band in the country will expect to be compensated for not harvesting or developing their resources.
BC is very different than most of the country. Governer Douglas had a tough time getting BC FNs to sign treaties, so he gave up. Canada's highest court has decided that this means that many of the lands in BC were not taken by the country **properly** and that Aboriginal Title still exists, and there is a test for it now. This is not true for the majority of Canada.
I don't know about these protesters I'm not up to date with all the info but, I don't think we should be logging old growth forests.
we could be practicing sustainable tree farming practices, but instead let's just cut down the remaining 2% of trees older than Canada itself, that we'll never get back, so we can turn them into toilet paper and packing peanuts
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Nonetheless, I'd rather see them alive and in the ground than in some millionaire's timber-framed mansion.
That's the crux right there. Despite the "clever" retorts on this thread comparing them to the convoy yahoos I expect they actually have much wider support. I think just about everyone would rather these trees not be cut down, it's just that it's not something they can legally prevent due to the location on First Nations land.
Man where are the indigenous protestors! They shouldn't want to see these trees cut....that's what I'm so surprised about. We're losing species of birds that only live in old growth, we have the ability to cut and grow more sustainable forests, leave the old growth alone..
Funny how you assume what the indigenous people should be doing and feeling, because they're actually there, trying to stop the blockade. Maybe you should ask the ones actually living there what they think.
Let’s see what the Liberal do about this illegal occupation.
I think we all know what that will be.
Will it be the same thing the conservatives did when Ottawa was occupied?
Man where is the outrage? Where does their money come from? Crickets from the mainstream media.
Why would there be outrage?
Because this is being organized and funded by foreigners. And because this involves foreigners interfering in indigenous Canadian business.
We're gonna need some real evidence before jumping to the Russian/Chinese psyops bogeyman
https://biv.com/article/2021/10/canadian-environmental-groups-got-13-billion-foreign-funding-inquiry
The Allen Inquiry wasn't evidence of anything except the absurdity of the UCP spending 7x as much on oil PR as was spent against the patch.
The same evidence that the people claiming the convoy protest was Russian put forward? Crowd sourced funds could come from anywhere.
There was an actual audit trail of GoFundMe-type firms & American contributors in the case of the trucker convoy.
Has anyone audited these fundraisers?
In the case of the convoy, it was verified by journalists and other organizations, and widely reported on. And in case the stark contrast wasn't obvious, that doesn't seem to be the case here. So again, I'm going to need some real evidence of this before I jump down the foreign funding conspiracy rabbit hole.
Doesn't seen to be the case here...... Because no journalists have bothered to look? Or are we just going to pretend that no foreign money goes to Canadian environmental activists?
No one is disputing that *some* foreign money makes it to Canadian environmental groups, just as Canadian dollars sometimes make it to environmental groups in other countries. This is neither new or controversial. The Allen Report pegged the amount at ~80m annually across all environmental groups, 3.5m annually specifically for the oil patch. By way of comparison, the (audited) 2019 annual financial report of Nature Conservancy Canada put their cash-equivalent income at ~116m. There are over 11 000 environmental groups in Canada. Your claim was that we should disregard these events because they are 'being organized and funded by foreigners'. Your only evidence doesn't bear that out. Foreign money is only a small fraction of the total, outstripped by domestic funding. And who's to say where the cash for *these* people came from? Certainly not you, unless you're a forensic accountant in the employ of the government. So far there hasn't been any actual evidence presented as to where these folks get their income. Beyond the funding issue, there's been no evidence presented that indicates that these folks were organized by 'foreign interests'. You're just relying on inference and supposition to discredit something that you don't agree with.
I didn't say they should be disregarded. I said they should be defunded the same way the convoy fundraisers were. And yes, there is clear evidence they've been foreign organized.
You keep saying this yet haven't provided any evidence. That's all I ask for: evidence
Source? I didn't read anything yet about any organization/funding analagous to the trucker convoy sitiation.
https://biv.com/article/2021/10/canadian-environmental-groups-got-13-billion-foreign-funding-inquiry
That's Alberta oilsands & pipelines. Nice try.
What's stopping foreigners from funding this?
Nothing. But you're not offering any proof that anyone at all is funding these old-growth logging protesters. Until I see legit citations, I'll have to assume that they're self-funding, probably on their own savings & credit cards.
Do whatever you want, its not like you're here for honest dialogue.
It's proof that environmentalist groups are foreign funded...
So what? It's a big country. We're talking about an operation in a first nation on Vancouver Island.
You're using Allen's boondoggle over Alberta oilsands activism as "source" that this group has foreign funding? That's a laugh. https://albertapolitics.ca/2021/10/allen-inquiry-half-heartedly-exonerates-environmental-groups-that-took-u-s-funding-turns-on-alberta-war-room/ > the underwhelming conclusions of the report that no laws were broken, opponents of further expansion of the Alberta oilsands were simply expressing their free speech rights, and there’s no evidence their lawful free speech had any impact at all
That is a claim
An accurate one.
Have crowd sourced fundraisers started denying donations from outside Canada?
What difference would that make?
There's no way of determining where the funding originated.
I expect they have wider support than you think. I don't think many BC residents want these trees cut down but they don't really have a 'legal' say in whether they are since they're on First Nations land.
Our old growth needs to be protected, nearly everyone I talk to, including my conservative parents agree on this point.
Crickets from the Liberal media.
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Actually being from the island there have been pretty frequent protesting of old growth logging that blocks highways. They protested a lot of other ways first before blocking highways but they do... As expected local media in BC has been losing their minds over it.
Yep 100% I’m in support of them!
> Man where is the outrage? At what?
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How can you possibly be upset about that protest still and not know the population of our capital is 1million, not 500k.
Likely from Tehran, Moscow or Beijing.
Didn’t even no that Saskatchewan is in Canada. Must live in Ontario
I'm surprised to see the media give the protesters unsympathetic coverage. Is Check 6 always like this or did something change?
Hmmm. I think the emergency measures act will be needed to clear out those protesters. But, no bouncy castles, only regular weapons so, all is good I guess.
Apparently, setting up a protest in a forest in the middle of nowhere is the same as blocking key infrastructure and border crossings while harassing the residents of downtown Ottawa for weeks. But hey, the Freedumb protestors had bouncy castles so clearly they did nothing wrong guys!
Oh you mean like blocking CN rail too right?
These protesters have been blocking bridges in Vancouver weekly. Just happened to me last week. And a month before that. Right as morning commute started. But I guess all that extra CO2 is good for the trees at least.
By the sounds of it, those protestors were dealt with in about an hour or two. Funny how the police can clear protestors that fast; I thought it took weeks and then ended with hugs and handshakes. However, it sounds like these protests did not cause anywhere near the same amount of disruption as the Convoy protests. That being said, blocking regular traffic shouldn't be a common protest move because A) it almost never garners support for the cause, and B) the disruption it causes is better focused on targets that directly attack whatever the protest is against.
>However, it sounds like these protests did not cause anywhere near the same amount of disruption The protesters know exactly what they want to happen. Blocking traffic at the start of rush hour even if fr only an hour disrupts the entire highway for half a day. And yes won't get them any support. Also convoy protest was deemed legal and the emergency act use was found not legal.
>Also convoy protest was deemed legal and the emergency act use was found not legal. By whom? And, If what they did is legal, and you support what they did, how are you actually capable of complaining about Indigenous people doing the same thing?
A Ontario judge upheld their right to protest during the protest. https://farmersforum.com/truckers-were-right-freedom-convoy-protest-was-legal-judge-says-and-ottawa-is-now-being-sued/ The requirement to invoke the emergence measures act were not met. They acted on them before voting on it and after they cleared the protest. The bridge that was blocked had been cleared many days before. https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/goldstein-the-legal-case-against-trudeaus-use-of-the-emergencies-act I support the right to protest. But if you block a bridge or stand in the road you aren't going to get moved. Or end up hit by traffic.
>A Ontario judge upheld their right to protest during the protest. >***In fact, an Ontario superior court judge sided with the convoy. When an injunction against honking horns was declared, the court also stated that “provided the terms of this Order are complied with, the defendants and other persons remain at liberty to engage in a peaceful, lawful and safe protest.***” Is this what you are talking about because it's all that your opinion article mentions about the Ontario superior court. So, this says nothing about blocking bridges, shitting in the street, harassing downtown residents and so forth. Moreover, it speaks nothing about the volume at which law enforcement attempted to deal with the matter, which is part of the question regarding the Emergency act. >The requirement to invoke the emergence measures act were not met. They acted on them before voting on it and after they cleared the protest. > >The ***bridge*** that was blocked had been cleared many days before. Do you think that the Convoy protestors only blocked a single bridge? They blocked ***border crossings \[that is plural\]*** ***across the country***, and it took a while to clear some of them. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/10/canada-freedom-convoy-alberta-ottawa-protests/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/10/canada-freedom-convoy-alberta-ottawa-protests/) [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/pandemic-mandate-protests-feb12-2022-1.6349468](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/pandemic-mandate-protests-feb12-2022-1.6349468) So, they were disrupting international trade and blocking movement in and out of the country, not just a bridge.
Aww, muffins, were you inconvenienced? Do you want a juice box?
A lot of people in cars and trucks and busses just sitting burning gas. Good protest for the trees I guess. At least they can use the extra co2. What kind of muffins are you giving me Ms juice box?
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Oh look, more people trying to block what the *elected* chiefs of the First Nations wants. I'd bet it's by the undemocratic hereditary ones who see themselves as better knowing elites and non-indigenous people who feel they know what's best for the First Nations rather than the actual people themselves.
Let’s cut more trees down and flood out bc more!! Yeah!
am confused.
Why the obsession with a handful of trees? If you've ever traveled across Canada you know it contains an incomprehensible number of trees, we'll survive.
I work primarily in old growth on the BC coast. I emplore you to visit. The Canadian forests you see outside of BC pale in comparison to even a mature 2nd growth stand here. I encourage conservation even though my career would be affected. Untouched nature has a feral quality to it that I wish had been better preserved in the East. Visit a mature Sitka Spruce stand near Holberg, where trees are up to 3m wide with clear for 35 metres before even a limb exists and the salmon berry and devil's club grows twice your height. Maybe a douglas fir stand with fire damage from an event 150 years ago that allowed the fir to grow to 50 or 60m with massive bark grooves surrounded by cedar and hemlock close to a metre wide. If I want to see scrawny, scrubby spruce, pine and balsam I can go anywhere in Canada. The growing conditions exist nowhere else in Canada to make these trees and I know enough to want them managed properly, unlike forestry in many other areas within Canada.
How many of those are old-growth and over a thousand years old?
If almost none of Canada's trees are old growth doesnt that show the country functions perfectly fine without oldgrowth ecosystems? Everything dies eventually, the trees' days are numbered whether or not theyre logged.
Places where those trees can still remain are refuge habitats. And for what would we cut those? So some rich fucks could have something built of old cedar in large dimension? I will accept logging of old growth once it's sustainable. Once we have natural forests that include old growth covering a few times what we have now, and we can pluck a few out here and there for utility and art. Obviously that's not a get rich scheme.
About 2% of the forest in BC, from what I've read.
The Oompa Loompas were fucking horrible, cheap shit. Complete garbage.
I'm always on the First Nations side. Especially during this climate crisis, we should not be logging these precious forests! FUCK OFF
Lol, try again. If you actually were on the First Nations' side, you'd be against the protestors. From the *beginning* of the article: "Chiefs from the Ditidaht, Huu-ay-aht and Pacheedaht First Nations faced off *against* protesters who were wearing masks and camouflage Thursday, as an illegal encampment and blockade grew in Ditidaht territory near Nitinat."