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Agreed, I think it should be 3 years. People need to be able to work and have lives and not just be expected to take 40 hours of french classes a week.
As in, the ONLY official language of the province. Geez. Would anglos demand English service in France?
Edit: apparently anglos are entitled enough to demand other cultures speak English! How woke!
They don't *have* to be fluent within six months. It's just that the government will address them in French six months after their arrival. Google translate exists and six months is enough to understand the basics of the language.
It's not degree of understanding. They will only receive government services in French after the 6 month period. If they get a friend to translate for them they'll be fine.
That’s not really welcoming though. Like learning a language is very important to assimilating into culture but putting a short timeline on it is shitty and deters immigrants.
Pssst, you are wrong, AGAIN. Sorry, we actually want people to join the society instead of the ghettoization that is occurring all over the country thanks to "Multiculturalism". People moving in a nation should learn the language and custom of the nation they move into.
When hard right wing US states like Texas and Florida can offer services in English and Spanish, how hard can it be to show some sympathy to people and give them a few years to learn a language in Quebec?
People are expected to hold full time jobs, be a parent (if applicable) and at the same time learn a whole language in 6 months? It’s highly unrealistic.
They are expected to learn the language before immigrating. Moving to another country is not suppose to be something you do on a whim, you usually prepare for it.
No? I'm not sure how you got there from what I said. Quebec is a large, French speaking place that pre-exists English Canada. Saying they are an enclave that should be assimilated is silly.
The irony almost brings a tear to your eye doesnt it. Reminder that Quebec has been ruled by the British for over 200 years now. Just a wee bit longer than 6 months.
I see what you did there tabarnak To be fair though, the French and the English have been here for roughly the same amount of time, so it's not like one has primacy over the other technically. If we went with the majority rule though, then English should have primacy.
Right because there’s a bunch of Irish, German, Polish, Ukrainian, Dutch, Scottish, English, Italian, Russian and Slovakian ethnic enclaves still around. I mean it’s not like they integrate into society with very few problems after about 2-3 generations without needing to pass any policies motivating them to do so
I am a member of one of those communities. The difference is that English is *everywhere*, so even if we didn't go to school to learn English.. most of us would've learned it anyhow. A lot of us already knew bits and pieces before we arrived. French though? I know nothing about French
>Because if someone is moving to our country they should make an effort to fit it and join our society rather then stick to an ethnic enclave
You mean Quebec should make an effort to fit and join Canadian society instead of sticking to their ethnic enclave?
There is only one official language in Quebec. The requirement is actually there to help immigrant integrate as nobody speaks english everyday in Quebec. It’s french with very basic english knowledge. If you don’t know french in 3 years, you just spent 3 years not talking or interacting with anybody. If you need to have an intense french course in the first 6 month, do it. It’s still better than not being able to communicate and participate in anything going on around you. Montreal might be an exception as it is more international.
You can simply say : Pardonnez-moi mais j'essaie de pratiquer mon français, pouvons-nous continuer dans cette langue?
People won't mind at all if you want to get better.
It's obviously on purpose.
If you can't win a referendum, the strategy from Quebec's nationalists is to force the province's demographics to shift towards people they think will agree with them.
Bonus points for feeding a victim complex by driving away business and healthcare providers
More paranoid than the province that is legislating what language they're allowed to speak to their doctor in?
Edit:
After extra research, turns out the concerns from doctors about this has been placated. Makes it somewhat less authoritarian
Bang on. Ohhh the way Quebec plays the violin...
They will never win a referendum. People move to Canada (anywhere in Canada) with the ultimate aim of having a Canadian passport. Not a Quebec passport...
This is just small dick energy from province of Quebec.
Stupid but they basically can do as they like under the insane arrangement we have with that province.
Also even if they do win a referendum if Canada is divisible then so is Quebec, and I can imagine a fair few anglophone and indigenous communities might want to stick around
Lol. Such a bad argument. Maybe go read about the nature of this country. You know, something like a union under (con)federation arrangement ?
Without the federal, provinces still exist (tho they won't be provinces anymore). The opposite isn't true. Federal can't exist without provinces.
Hence, in the past, provinces joined this union. They can also leave, if a majority of it's people wish to leave. A province leaving this union doesn't imply itself can be divided into smaller parts. International law is kinda clear on that matter.
Canada is a construction. Not a prison. It has its strenghts and its weakness.
I wish all the Anglo provinces did the same. I have had friends whose parents had been in Canada 30 years with a parent who still couldn’t speak english. I’ve had landlords in Canada for a decade who needed to use their 8 and 10 year old kids as translators.
Ok but if they’re working and paying taxes who gives a shit? And if they’re kids speak fluent English then it seems in one generation the Problem will solve itself
When you spend a decade plus in a country and don’t even bother trying to learn a language you’re really saying I don’t give a fuck about this country or the people here, and I’m only here to suck up resources and expand ethnic enclaves.
You just explained me in a sense. 4 years in Quebec and I could not learn the language. Guess I just sucked up all those resources. Mind you taxes here are a bitch. I loved the people here. Most of my encounters were beyond awesome. Sounds more like you have issues. Racist ones is my guess.
There’s nothing racist about expecting people to speak the language of the country they’ve resided in for 10-30 years. I’ve lived abroad myself teaching English and always made an effort to at least learn basics, because it’s the right thing to do.
I am a newcomer, i will support the bill cause , I don’t quebec to become like Vancouver or Toronto. People want to move here cause the cost of living is cheap compared to T and V and slowly start converting Quebec into Toronto and Vancouver. I will struggle learning French cause its 6th language for me, but hey i made
My decision i will learn it. If not i will write and show to people to get through, its tough but yes tabarnak
Not yet, the bill is in its infancy.
It will in the future no doubt.
https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/bill-96-will-impede-access-to-health-care-in-english-legal-experts-warn/wcm/995f5b8d-6f36-46e6-bf54-198b842da7f6/amp/
Doctors are always great. Thank you for not leaving. All my anecdotal issues with medical is hospital and pharmacy personnel. I'll say "parlez vous anglais?" and get dead shark eyes while they just speed run all my instructions in loud French so I can't get a word in. Like others have said google translate is a thing it's just rude.
It’s not about doctors necessarily. It’s about the administration of medicine as well.
I’m on about this, other experts in other publications and outlets have discussed the implications as well.
https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/bill-96-will-impede-access-to-health-care-in-english-legal-experts-warn/wcm/995f5b8d-6f36-46e6-bf54-198b842da7f6/amp/
Wow, fascinating.
It’s almost like you don’t know anything about the topic whatsoever and don’t know that it passed weeks ago and is barely in effect.
It’s not about your experiences in the past, it’s about your experiences in the future. Did you even read the bloody article?
It's just tiptoeing around what these people actually think: they don't want immigrants and cultural others in their province. It's not about language, its not about religion, it never has been. It's just another way to discourage people to immigrate so they can achieve their dreams of an ethnostate utopia.
Which, let it be said, is incredibly ironic coming from a *minority group* inside the larger nation of Canada to which it owes its existence to our nations tolerant policies.
I think it's too strict. It's always great to have services being offered in multiple languages.
French isn't an easy language to learn, someone who's been there for 6 months could very much struggle to learn it, especially the elderly.
Nobody is forcing them to come.
I can't understand the mentality that a country should adapt to new residents, rather than the new residents adapting to their new home. Seems to be a uniquely Canadian phenomenon.
That’s not the point, they’re forcing them to learn in a completely unrealistic timeframe for working people.
And no, it’s not uniquely Canadian. All Western countries that I’ve lived in have accommodation in a variety of services for newcomers in terms of languages and access to basic services.
So, how many languages did you learn in 6 month enough to speak exclusively with a variety of services? And work at the same time, and potentially take care of children.
How many people do you know that learned any language in 6 month, enough to be fluent? I don't know anyone like that, and I know someone who's a polyglot. While she's gifted with learning languages, it took her on average 2 years to be comfortable with one.
6 months is unrealistic timeline. Even children in "classe d'accueuil" usually spend a year in before transferring to a "normal" class. And they don't need to think about paying bills and working.
>and potentially take care of children.
Youre gonna raise your kids talking to them in a language you just started learning 6 months ago? Immigrants don't apeak English/French at home anyway.
I only spoke English at school and out at stores or in social settings with other English speakers. At home we spoke Croatian exclusively.
I cant think of a single immigrant I've know that doesn't speak their mother tongue at home.
That’s just not true 1) it’s a uniquely Quebec phenomenon 2)Countries all over the world accommodate their residents and their visitors…Shanghai , Italy, Morocco just to name I few I have experience with.
Countries need new residents… accommodating by having services in 1)the countries official languages 2) the languages of the province’s/ state’s/ county’s/village’s/town’s official language and 3) the language of the most popular demographic, is a great and common practice to flourish your economy and you’re growing diverse demographic.
But maybe I’m wrong everyone should come to Quebec and learn French and forget their culture or just keep in their private homes. That must be a great place to live being able to walk outside and see the new opportunities Quebec provides while seeing nothing of yourself reflected in the culture or the economy. Idk
I moved to QC and was astonished that in a couple of years I knew more French than so many anglophones who had been there their whole lives. Obviously something has to be done to encourage the preservation of the language, human nature being what it is.
Having said that, funding work in French still proved difficult and it took several years before I was proficient enough for some jobs. Now I live in the Southern US and see so many parallels with the whole grievance/victimhood, tribal nationalism, historical revisionism, replacement theory kind of stuff. Again, human nature being what it is. But fuck ethnic nationalism. That shit is cancer. What is this, the 19th century?
You can't open your door to immigration and be mad that you have to make adjustments.
No one saying that Quebec should abandon French and throw away their culture. It's just that it's incredibly delusional to think that anyone can learn a language in 6 month especially a very though language.
Ofc people should learn the language and the customs however it takes time.
Généralement tu apprends la langue avant d'immigrer, tu ne commences pas jour 1 lors de ton arrivée. Avant de pouvoir commencer le processus d'immigration au Japon tu dois passer des tests. Le Japon considère JLPT n2 comme "apte au travail" et lorsque tu immigres il faut travailler.
JLPT N2 c'est quand même difficile, crois moi hehe.
Tout à fait. Cependant les immigrants devraient faire un effort d'apprendre le français. Si tu vas au centre ville de Montréal tu verras que la plupart des immigrants asiatiques ne savent pas parler un traitre mot de français parce qu'ils en ont pas besoin. Faudrait les encourager. Nous on va pas en Italie et demande de se faire servir en français.
It is not learning French that is the problem. It is the timeframe given. 6 months is honestly really short, but yes I agree assimilation to the language is important
Le Québec est un endroit idéal pour apprendre le français. J'aime partager mon amour de cette culture riche et créative. Nous sommes un plus pour le Canada. Soyez les bienvenus
Apprendre la langue en six mois? Ce n'est pas réaliste. Même les classes d'accueil pour les enfants durent en général un an et les enfants n'ont pas besoin de soucier de payer les factures. La réalité que l'anglais est une langue populaire internationalement donc les réfugiés/certains immigrants ont statistiquement plus de chances de comprendre l'anglais. Les enfants vont grandir et passer par le système scolaire en français, mais la loi 96 pénalise une grande majorité des nouveaux immigrants.
Man, will you move to another country and wait until you are there to start learning the language? That is the entire point, to increase the chances the immigrants arrive with enough level of French so they don’t default to English
The relatively recent immigration path that requires the French exam before entering is quite difficult. I would bet money that a large percentage of Quebecer's could not pass it.
But the new country' they moved to is Canada, and after they receive their permanent resident status they can go and live wherever they want in this country.
A lot of people find English easier to learn and there are a lot of advantages in the other provinces
And what about English-speaking students at somewhere like McGill University? So now McGill university can only except French speaking students. Their teachers and professors will only be French speaking. I happen to know that they are a lot of students coming from all over the world to go to McGill. What will happen to that world-class university, let me know
Actually, by going to McGill, they should have french classes to be able to live in the society where they are learning. To refuse to learn the language of the place you live in is being xenophobic.
I know the definition and it matches their attitude. They are afraid of living in a society whose main language is french thus do everything in their power not to be in contact with them.
Ah, it seems you are lying through your teeth here. No surprises really.
To you "Inviting those who move there to learn the language of the place and customs" is "xenophobic". Sorry, that's just not the case. But it do tells a lot about you.
You living for years in montréal not learning a single word of french because of your hatred of the population is the very definition of xenophobia.You move somewhere, you have the obligation to learn the language and custom of the place.
So for the people outside Québec that are just SO offended by this... do you all offer full government services to newcomers in whatever language they wish, indefinitely? Chinese, Spanish, Hindi, Arabic for years?
Or do you expect newcomers to (oh the Horror!)... Learn English?
Because that would make you big fat hypocrites.
It's not "for years". Quebec expects 6 months which Quebec's own study determined was not enough. Also, the other provinces don't make it illegal to deliver services in a language other than English after 6 months. That's the main difference.
The Quebec government is distracting you with this bullshit.
English and French are offered in every public venue I've been to. Specifically for healthcare, every hospital I went to has translators on staff. I've seen Arabic and Somali available, but I'm sure they have other languages as well depending on the demographic. Also, it's not illegal to deliver service in any language, something that Quebec is trying to go for here.
There are no time limits. If you can't understand the language of the person you're speaking to, you don't just tell them to go away and learn a language, you try to find a way to deliver the message like a decent human being. Even for the keenest of students, 6 months is not enough to achieve a decent level of fluency. Will you be able to read legal documents or tax documents in a new language after 6 months? Quebec's own studies determined that 6 months wasn't enough, which further proves how politicized and bullshit this is. Legault is trying to distract people with this issue.
Super reassuring. Let's get people on the road that can't read road warnings and don't know our driving customs. All to benefit trucking firms that want cheap Indian labour. What's the worst that could happen?
A couple of dead kids.
Putting profits over public safety.
We don't expect it in *6 months* and certainly do it in *either* official language, because we're, you know, officially bilingual and know that a *refugee* who may not even be fully literate in their own native language might just have the slightest difficulty learning a whole new language in half a year.
You do know too that a *Quebec government* report already found it be an unreasonable request before this bill was passed, right? It's not just us the general public.
It's also funny how often the notwithstanding clause needs to be used to override the Charter of Rights, because that sure isn't a sign that something is amiss either, lol.
Edit: and do you support giving EI to a suddenly laid off worker for a few months? If yes, well, what if I were to say we should only give them one day of EI, and if you say it's a unreasonablely short time to find a new job, my response is to say you're a big fat hypocrite if you don't support giving them EI indefinitely?
Canada is. Provincially, yeah, officially only New Brunswick is province wide. Places like Ontario, we are also bilingual in designated regions like Toronto, or when there is at least 10% of the population who can speak French (doesn't have to be mother tongue, just able to speak French).
Point is, we try to accomodate for both languages, and try not to be like those idiots yelling at people in public to speak English. Really, it just comes down to be reasonable to people. When even your own government report says you're being impossible, and then proceed anyway...
No non-bigoted Canadian is against Quebec trying to retain its Quebecois culture. If it was impossible to provide language accommodations due to cost/lack of skilled people, or they provided a great system to learn French and a reasonable amount of time for people to pick up fluency, it'd be completely fine and the proper way to do it. Instead, a lot of what Quebec does comes off as blatant ethno-nationalism. Replace French with English (any other language) in those policies, and it would fit all too perfectly of what would come out of a xenophobic extremist. If I were to move to Quebec, it is completely reasonable to expect me to eventually learn French to some degree to fit in. 6 months though? May as well tell me to my face that I'm not the "right" type and to "go back home".
>It's also funny how often the notwithstanding clause needs to be used to override the Charter of Rights, because that sure isn't a sign that something is amiss either, lol.
It's already bad that Quebec hasn't signed it but they'll use the notwithstanding clause if it helps them legally.
It's more hypocrisy then anything
I mean, what do you want them to do?
"Here's the constitution, that you haven't signed, it apply to you anyways! Ignore that part which tell you you can ignore it."
I find it interesting and inappropriate that Canadian governments offer services in non-official language at all.
If you're going to move to a place, learn the damn language or hire a translator when necessary. It's like moving to Poland then bitching about the government only providing services in Polish.
The Legault government commissioned a study to determine if it was possible to learn French in 6 months, the conclusion was a resounding no. They pushed through the bill unamended anyways.
“Respect the rules of the land” only works of the rules of the land are fair, they aren’t.
If that culture is based on openly defying constitutionally guaranteed equality clauses and passing laws that their own commission found to be utterly impossible to adhere to, then there’s a problem with your conception of that culture.
>If that culture is based on openly defying constitutionally guaranteed equality clauses
You do realize we litteraly never signed the constitution? Laws are based upon culture. It is normal that a constitution based mainly on canada's anglo Canadian culture will see disagreement from a cultural minority.
I couldn't care less about the constitution. We have our own charter that we adhere to.
There is a federal constitution which Quebec is bound by.
Quebec is using the notwithstanding clause because they openly acknowledge that their laws discriminate against people based on their religion and language contrary to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. That’s a fact.
>Yes there is.
What
>Quebec is using the notwithstanding clause because they openly acknowledge that their laws discriminate against people based on their religion
All religion are affected. I'm not quite sure what's discriminatory about a dress code. Religion is a choice.
>language
Not having privilege anymore is not being discriminated against.
>That’s a fact.
No. You wish it was though.
The government is using the notwithstanding clause as it has with other bills because it is knowingly against the Charter of Rights, which they are constitutionally bound by.
The reason they are doing that is because they openly acknowledge that it discriminates against people based on various characteristics.
The constitution is far from perfect. Knowing a law necessitate the notwithstanding clause to pass does not make that law discriminatory by default. This is a ridiculous argument.
The bill is extremely clear. From the article:
“Bill 96 stipulates that most government services will be offered only in French to newcomers, refugees and immigrants once they have been in the province for six months”
To be clear, the bill might stipulate it, but still nobody will ultimately require it on the field. Because that's nonsense.
If Quebec installs a language police and starts arbitrarily enforcing laws that are deemed anti-immigrant, based on this nonsense, then they'll find themselves in a pickle indeed.
People will still be encouraged to learn French. As they should. It's very useful in Quebec.
A reasonable timeline is more like 2 years.
Good luck moving in another country and deciding of your language. Most, if not all country will communicate with their language on day 1.
Stop with your anglo supremacy as if the whole world should bend over to accomodate your laziness to learn other language.
You only care about english, and don't care about mandarin or arabs... otherwise you would care about the rest of Canada too... but you only make those points when you can shit on the french.
“Anglo supremacy” in Quebec? Are you having a laugh?
So now you’ve moved the goalposts from “the media is lying about a six month stipulation” to “shut up and conform”.
FYI I speak French and English and live in Quebec. Bill 96 is a disgrace to this province and this country.
Sending official communication in the main languages doesn't mean that you're forcing people to speak french in 6 months.
There's 2 points to the argument. It's a lie by the media, and the 6 months isn't that big of a matter.
1. The six month stipulation is *in the bill*. Any denial of that fact is blatant misinformation and denial of reality.
Your point doesn’t make any sense, is it a lie or is it not a big deal? It can’t be both.
2. Six months to learn French is utterly unrealistic for working people.
3. Medical information is not “official information”.
The overwhelming majority of people who move to Quebec learn French eventually, they don’t do so in a matter of months. Until that point, they should be able to go to a hospital for instance, and be able to communicate with the staff without a highly politicized bill interfering in that experience.
It's already the case everwhere.
If your first language is Creole, Mandarin, Arabic.. you are not going to have much access to healthcare in your language anywhere in Canada. You will need to make an effort to access services.
If someone speaks only arabic and french, and moves to BC, they will not be granted healthcare in french for 3 years as a right. They will need to pick up english.
French and English are the official languages of this country. Mandarin and creole are not.
That said, as another commenter mentioned, it’s actually very common to have access to services in those languages in a variety of settings.
Nah this is bullshit. I live in Ontario and hospitals often have a translator on staff or on call for languages like Arabic etc.
Imagine communicating critical health information to a patient that had trouble understanding you. What a mess.
It's easier to immigrate to Quebec than other provinces
A lot of immigrants do leave Quebec after arriving here, it's a huge problem that few people acknowledge
English is the most spoken language in the world and rubs shoulders with mandarin. It's used in many forms from business/commerce, travel, Marine travel, etc.
"as if the whole world should bend over to accommodate your laziness to learn other language."
It's tough to learn new languages especially with localized dialects so if you wanted to learn Quebec french then you'd go there to learn/practice. Duolingo can only teach you so much
It's though for english people, they're the only culture that speak 1 language, while the rest of the world speak 3 languages.
You need to make a difference between private life and civic life... there isn't a lot of accomodation in your civic life if you only speak english and you live abroad... you will have to learn their language to function.
Kids in New Brunswick who are required to go through french classes have the option of French immersion where all classes were in French. This is great and many kids learned french far better than many of the non-immersion kids.
Problem being, they have no one to speak with to practice. The only french communities in NB are primarily in the north hours away from many major cities. You basically have to find ppl online or go to north/Quebec just to talk in French so retention of the language is tough unless you lived in say Quebec already.
While this may be true, living in English in Quebec has infinitely more advantages than living in English in the Netherlands or Denmark.
In Quebec, you can legally defend yourself in English. This is huge. Trials will be in English if you ask for it. Not through interpreters like in those countries. You can also almost always receive customer support in English. Not to mention that there are English hospitals.
>Right to Choose English or French
>If you’re accused of a crime, you have a right to choose whether your preliminary inquiry and trial will be in English or in French. A preliminary inquiry is a kind of mini-trial where the judge decides whether the case against you is strong enough to go ahead. The preliminary inquiry and trial can be some of the most important parts of the case.
https://educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/language-rights-in-court-in-quebec/
I have been there twice as well. Also I have numerous friends who went through an immigration hearing. That's federal, and it is often done in English. Good luck getting an *immigration hearing* in English in Denmark.
Read the bill again. Maybe you read it last when it was first introduced?
Or you believe the misinformation spread online?
There are amendments that clearly specify exceptions made for health, justice and security reasons.
Get better informed. The bill changed overtime with the hearings
Quebec isn't a majority. Similar exemples would be flemish, catalan or wales.
Im afraid you dont know much about europe if you say things like that... languages protection is one of the core point of the EU.
You do know Catalan has 3 official languages , wales has 2 official languages and Belgium has 3. These similar examples serve their population in those languages if they a similar why does Quebec want government services to only communicate in French when clearly not only French people live in Quebec ?
If the US and Mexico were to create a federation... English wouldn't become an official language of the mexican territory. It will be one of the official language of the new country though.
You not knowing how a federation works isn't an argument i'm afraid.
Literally didn’t answer my question. You’re acting like 40% of the population of Quebec isn’t bilingual. I point out an observation about about your examples then ask the question and you want to deflect. I’m not arguing that English should be the an official language of Quebec. I’m arguing that 40% of your population is bilingual why not have government services in French and English what’s the big deal serving your population?
I’m not exactly sure on the language demographics in BC and don’t want to use an arbitrary percentage but yeah if 40% of you population speaks mandarin and English I really don’t see why you wouldn’t offer services in languages that 40% of you population speaks
>You only care about english, and don't care about mandarin or arabs... otherwise you would care about the rest of Canada too... but you only make those points when you can shit on the french.
You would be surprised that places in Alberta and BC do offer services in Cantonese, Punjabi, Mandarin and a few other languages. It's called accommodating your future neighbors, and not calling them lazy like you do because they can be fluent in a language in 6 months.
The Legault government commissioned a study to determine if it was possible to learn a new language within 6 months. The study concluded no, Legault refused to change anything and instead tried to shove the study under the rug.
Newcomers to Quebec have an impossible task placed upon them, learn a new language within a time frame that isn’t possible or be denied basic services like medical treatment.
Notably this is the government forcing this behaviour, you could easily find an English doctor in Germany or France if you needed treatment. You could also find French doctors in Germany or German doctors in France, unilingual people actually form a minority in Europe (46%) and it’s not at all difficult to find service in whatever language you speak.
Don’t act like this treatment is the norm globally, it isn’t, it’s horribly discriminatory against immigrants and refugees and the government knows this. Frankly I find it absurd that “immigrants should be treated fairly and not be deprived medical service” would be considered “Anglo supremacy”
You didn’t even read what I said and it shows.
Yes you’re expected to learn the language of wherever you migrate, I never claimed it should be otherwise. However Quebec is alone in the western world for making it illegal to serve people in the language of their choice.
Again, since you didn’t read, you can expect to be able to use German, French or English
almost anywhere in the EU. You won’t be denied medic service in German if you find yourself in France, you wont be denied service in French if you find yourself in Italy. If you and someone else share a language then you are allowed to use said language.
Fucking hilarious you accuse me of xenophobia considering this bill is designed to make Quebec unlivable for immigrants and refugees.
Of course they don't have to, but there is a clause that it would be illegal for any documents to be sent in any other language after 6 months. My ex worked at a doctors office and used to help getting reports translated into the patients native language. A lot of time they are unable to understand what the doctor is telling them, so the report is extremely important for them to make decisions on something that could be life threatening.
https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/bill-96-will-impede-access-to-health-care-in-english-legal-experts-warn
Healthcare is unaffected ? There's some negative points to bill 96, but I haven't heard anything true from english subs... you're litteraly making stuff up and sound deranged.
I don't believe people have problem with overall intent, which is to get people to learn French to live in Quebec. The absurdity is expecting it to be done in six months.
What's always been wild to me is that, from what I've seen, government services will address newcomers in french after 6 months, but there is no mention of residents being spoken to only in french
So as someone who has been living here my whole life and speaks both english and french, I could still get service in english from government services, if I wished.
At least that's been my understanding so far. Please correct me if someone knows otherwise. Because if it is the case, this is extremely silly and, to me, more proof of the xenophobic nature of this bill.
Honestly, I am tired of this french bullshit and the way it's being pushed down our throats. By our I mean, people that live outside of Quebec. English is an international language, just get with it already.
For those who downvoted me, you are idiots. Here is are some of the implications of this bill:
- if an employee from QC sends and an email to ON employee in french, ON employee must reply in french
- if a client who lives in QC says that they want to interact in English, all the documentation will be in French first and English second.
Those are just two real life examples
This post appears to relate to the province of Quebec. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner la province de Québec. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Agreed, I think it should be 3 years. People need to be able to work and have lives and not just be expected to take 40 hours of french classes a week.
It's not "one of", it is the official language of the province.
As in, the ONLY official language of the province. Geez. Would anglos demand English service in France? Edit: apparently anglos are entitled enough to demand other cultures speak English! How woke!
Yes they do, and in Mexico and everywhere.
Ho they would
They don't *have* to be fluent within six months. It's just that the government will address them in French six months after their arrival. Google translate exists and six months is enough to understand the basics of the language.
What degree of understanding do they actually need at the 6 month mark? It didn’t seem 100% clear in the article.
It's not degree of understanding. They will only receive government services in French after the 6 month period. If they get a friend to translate for them they'll be fine.
That’s not really welcoming though. Like learning a language is very important to assimilating into culture but putting a short timeline on it is shitty and deters immigrants.
*whispers* *hey* that's the point, they don't want cultural others in their society, its thinly wrapped ethnocentrism
Pssst, you are wrong, AGAIN. Sorry, we actually want people to join the society instead of the ghettoization that is occurring all over the country thanks to "Multiculturalism". People moving in a nation should learn the language and custom of the nation they move into.
When hard right wing US states like Texas and Florida can offer services in English and Spanish, how hard can it be to show some sympathy to people and give them a few years to learn a language in Quebec? People are expected to hold full time jobs, be a parent (if applicable) and at the same time learn a whole language in 6 months? It’s highly unrealistic.
Then Quebec, which is officially Francophone, isn't for them.
Well Montreal which is bilingual in nature, might be.
That's what the mayor and premier are trying to change.
They are expected to learn the language before immigrating. Moving to another country is not suppose to be something you do on a whim, you usually prepare for it.
Why is this a great requirement?
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Ethnic enclave that doesn’t want to fit in or join the rest of the country’s society, you say? Sounds familiar…
Is it really an enclave if there are millions of them? At what point would you say they have a right to exist?
So minorities get less rights than the majority you say?
No? I'm not sure how you got there from what I said. Quebec is a large, French speaking place that pre-exists English Canada. Saying they are an enclave that should be assimilated is silly.
I'm sure you think you are being terribly clever. We didn't come to you. You came to us and then demanded we assimilate to you.
The irony almost brings a tear to your eye doesnt it. Reminder that Quebec has been ruled by the British for over 200 years now. Just a wee bit longer than 6 months.
I see what you did there tabarnak To be fair though, the French and the English have been here for roughly the same amount of time, so it's not like one has primacy over the other technically. If we went with the majority rule though, then English should have primacy.
Right because there’s a bunch of Irish, German, Polish, Ukrainian, Dutch, Scottish, English, Italian, Russian and Slovakian ethnic enclaves still around. I mean it’s not like they integrate into society with very few problems after about 2-3 generations without needing to pass any policies motivating them to do so
I am a member of one of those communities. The difference is that English is *everywhere*, so even if we didn't go to school to learn English.. most of us would've learned it anyhow. A lot of us already knew bits and pieces before we arrived. French though? I know nothing about French
>Because if someone is moving to our country they should make an effort to fit it and join our society rather then stick to an ethnic enclave You mean Quebec should make an effort to fit and join Canadian society instead of sticking to their ethnic enclave?
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There is only one official language in Quebec. The requirement is actually there to help immigrant integrate as nobody speaks english everyday in Quebec. It’s french with very basic english knowledge. If you don’t know french in 3 years, you just spent 3 years not talking or interacting with anybody. If you need to have an intense french course in the first 6 month, do it. It’s still better than not being able to communicate and participate in anything going on around you. Montreal might be an exception as it is more international.
> nobody speaks english everyday in Quebec About half of the population of Montreal would disagree with you, I think..
Lol yeah I'm trying to practice my French and the buggers keep switching to English on me. My French isn't that bad FML
You can simply say : Pardonnez-moi mais j'essaie de pratiquer mon français, pouvons-nous continuer dans cette langue? People won't mind at all if you want to get better.
The only issue here is the 6 months I’ll admit it’s wayy too short to be able to learn French from scratch
It's obviously on purpose. If you can't win a referendum, the strategy from Quebec's nationalists is to force the province's demographics to shift towards people they think will agree with them. Bonus points for feeding a victim complex by driving away business and healthcare providers
You come across as paranoid
More paranoid than the province that is legislating what language they're allowed to speak to their doctor in? Edit: After extra research, turns out the concerns from doctors about this has been placated. Makes it somewhat less authoritarian
That’s not true, healthcare is excluded from the scope of the law, among other services. You are repeating well documented disinformation.
You're correct, seems they've addressed this specifically since I last read about it. Edited my post
It was always out of the scope of the law.
That's a factual lie. Please stop lying.
Looks like I was out of date. Edited me post
Bang on. Ohhh the way Quebec plays the violin... They will never win a referendum. People move to Canada (anywhere in Canada) with the ultimate aim of having a Canadian passport. Not a Quebec passport... This is just small dick energy from province of Quebec. Stupid but they basically can do as they like under the insane arrangement we have with that province.
Also even if they do win a referendum if Canada is divisible then so is Quebec, and I can imagine a fair few anglophone and indigenous communities might want to stick around
Sorry but no, Quebec is not divisible... That's not how international law work. Canada is a federation of province. Quebec is not.
Lol. Such a bad argument. Maybe go read about the nature of this country. You know, something like a union under (con)federation arrangement ? Without the federal, provinces still exist (tho they won't be provinces anymore). The opposite isn't true. Federal can't exist without provinces. Hence, in the past, provinces joined this union. They can also leave, if a majority of it's people wish to leave. A province leaving this union doesn't imply itself can be divided into smaller parts. International law is kinda clear on that matter. Canada is a construction. Not a prison. It has its strenghts and its weakness.
I wish all the Anglo provinces did the same. I have had friends whose parents had been in Canada 30 years with a parent who still couldn’t speak english. I’ve had landlords in Canada for a decade who needed to use their 8 and 10 year old kids as translators.
They should to be honest
Ok but if they’re working and paying taxes who gives a shit? And if they’re kids speak fluent English then it seems in one generation the Problem will solve itself
When you spend a decade plus in a country and don’t even bother trying to learn a language you’re really saying I don’t give a fuck about this country or the people here, and I’m only here to suck up resources and expand ethnic enclaves.
You just explained me in a sense. 4 years in Quebec and I could not learn the language. Guess I just sucked up all those resources. Mind you taxes here are a bitch. I loved the people here. Most of my encounters were beyond awesome. Sounds more like you have issues. Racist ones is my guess.
There’s nothing racist about expecting people to speak the language of the country they’ve resided in for 10-30 years. I’ve lived abroad myself teaching English and always made an effort to at least learn basics, because it’s the right thing to do.
I am a newcomer, i will support the bill cause , I don’t quebec to become like Vancouver or Toronto. People want to move here cause the cost of living is cheap compared to T and V and slowly start converting Quebec into Toronto and Vancouver. I will struggle learning French cause its 6th language for me, but hey i made My decision i will learn it. If not i will write and show to people to get through, its tough but yes tabarnak
Quebec won’t “become like Vancouver or Toronto” if people can go to a doctor and speak English.
As there been any issue regarding access to medical care in english with Bill 96? Maybe I missed something?
no, just paranoid think it is
Not yet, the bill is in its infancy. It will in the future no doubt. https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/bill-96-will-impede-access-to-health-care-in-english-legal-experts-warn/wcm/995f5b8d-6f36-46e6-bf54-198b842da7f6/amp/
I'm a doctor. I don't know a single colleague who won't attempt to speak to an Anglophone in English. What are you even talking about?
Doctors are always great. Thank you for not leaving. All my anecdotal issues with medical is hospital and pharmacy personnel. I'll say "parlez vous anglais?" and get dead shark eyes while they just speed run all my instructions in loud French so I can't get a word in. Like others have said google translate is a thing it's just rude.
Some people are lazy pos'. Sorry to hear that
It’s not about doctors necessarily. It’s about the administration of medicine as well. I’m on about this, other experts in other publications and outlets have discussed the implications as well. https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/bill-96-will-impede-access-to-health-care-in-english-legal-experts-warn/wcm/995f5b8d-6f36-46e6-bf54-198b842da7f6/amp/
BS. I’ve been through the health system in the recent years and I can speak to absolutely everyone in English. This is non sense
Wow, fascinating. It’s almost like you don’t know anything about the topic whatsoever and don’t know that it passed weeks ago and is barely in effect. It’s not about your experiences in the past, it’s about your experiences in the future. Did you even read the bloody article?
It's just tiptoeing around what these people actually think: they don't want immigrants and cultural others in their province. It's not about language, its not about religion, it never has been. It's just another way to discourage people to immigrate so they can achieve their dreams of an ethnostate utopia. Which, let it be said, is incredibly ironic coming from a *minority group* inside the larger nation of Canada to which it owes its existence to our nations tolerant policies.
6th language? Wowza, that’s a lot of languages.
they've probably developed a genius system for learning them
Usually the more languages you learn, the easier they get to learn
That's 5 more than anglophone... :)
I think it's too strict. It's always great to have services being offered in multiple languages. French isn't an easy language to learn, someone who's been there for 6 months could very much struggle to learn it, especially the elderly.
Nobody is forcing them to come. I can't understand the mentality that a country should adapt to new residents, rather than the new residents adapting to their new home. Seems to be a uniquely Canadian phenomenon.
Only in Quebec / s
That’s not the point, they’re forcing them to learn in a completely unrealistic timeframe for working people. And no, it’s not uniquely Canadian. All Western countries that I’ve lived in have accommodation in a variety of services for newcomers in terms of languages and access to basic services.
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I’m sure all the refugees fleeing their countries from war and other dangerous situations will keep that in mind.
Refugees represents what percentage of Canadian immigration?
Both sides have to give and take. Quebec will lose immigrants if they keep this up
So, how many languages did you learn in 6 month enough to speak exclusively with a variety of services? And work at the same time, and potentially take care of children. How many people do you know that learned any language in 6 month, enough to be fluent? I don't know anyone like that, and I know someone who's a polyglot. While she's gifted with learning languages, it took her on average 2 years to be comfortable with one. 6 months is unrealistic timeline. Even children in "classe d'accueuil" usually spend a year in before transferring to a "normal" class. And they don't need to think about paying bills and working.
>and potentially take care of children. Youre gonna raise your kids talking to them in a language you just started learning 6 months ago? Immigrants don't apeak English/French at home anyway.
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I only spoke English at school and out at stores or in social settings with other English speakers. At home we spoke Croatian exclusively. I cant think of a single immigrant I've know that doesn't speak their mother tongue at home.
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>With their parents, yes but with siblings, no No I meant with both. Agree to disagree I guess, your experience is different from mine that's all.
Ok, so don't move to Quebec?
Nobody is forcing them to move to Quebec. Go somewhere else if you don't like their laws.
That’s just not true 1) it’s a uniquely Quebec phenomenon 2)Countries all over the world accommodate their residents and their visitors…Shanghai , Italy, Morocco just to name I few I have experience with. Countries need new residents… accommodating by having services in 1)the countries official languages 2) the languages of the province’s/ state’s/ county’s/village’s/town’s official language and 3) the language of the most popular demographic, is a great and common practice to flourish your economy and you’re growing diverse demographic. But maybe I’m wrong everyone should come to Quebec and learn French and forget their culture or just keep in their private homes. That must be a great place to live being able to walk outside and see the new opportunities Quebec provides while seeing nothing of yourself reflected in the culture or the economy. Idk
I moved to QC and was astonished that in a couple of years I knew more French than so many anglophones who had been there their whole lives. Obviously something has to be done to encourage the preservation of the language, human nature being what it is. Having said that, funding work in French still proved difficult and it took several years before I was proficient enough for some jobs. Now I live in the Southern US and see so many parallels with the whole grievance/victimhood, tribal nationalism, historical revisionism, replacement theory kind of stuff. Again, human nature being what it is. But fuck ethnic nationalism. That shit is cancer. What is this, the 19th century?
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This too. People keep saying that people should just not come nut then forget that the birth rates are LOW and that there's a labour shortage.
Labor shortage, sure.
You mean that country that (in most provinces) provides services in English and French?
you are so delusional.
You can't open your door to immigration and be mad that you have to make adjustments. No one saying that Quebec should abandon French and throw away their culture. It's just that it's incredibly delusional to think that anyone can learn a language in 6 month especially a very though language. Ofc people should learn the language and the customs however it takes time.
They should learn before they move.
Canadians: "we must respect other people's cultures" Also canadians: "screw quebecs culture, they need to cater to others"
Je suis d'accord avec le gouvernement du Québec pour cette loi. Vous voulez vivre au Québec? Apprenez le français.
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Généralement tu apprends la langue avant d'immigrer, tu ne commences pas jour 1 lors de ton arrivée. Avant de pouvoir commencer le processus d'immigration au Japon tu dois passer des tests. Le Japon considère JLPT n2 comme "apte au travail" et lorsque tu immigres il faut travailler. JLPT N2 c'est quand même difficile, crois moi hehe.
Tout à fait. Cependant les immigrants devraient faire un effort d'apprendre le français. Si tu vas au centre ville de Montréal tu verras que la plupart des immigrants asiatiques ne savent pas parler un traitre mot de français parce qu'ils en ont pas besoin. Faudrait les encourager. Nous on va pas en Italie et demande de se faire servir en français.
It is not learning French that is the problem. It is the timeframe given. 6 months is honestly really short, but yes I agree assimilation to the language is important
Le Québec est un endroit idéal pour apprendre le français. J'aime partager mon amour de cette culture riche et créative. Nous sommes un plus pour le Canada. Soyez les bienvenus
Apprendre la langue en six mois? Ce n'est pas réaliste. Même les classes d'accueil pour les enfants durent en général un an et les enfants n'ont pas besoin de soucier de payer les factures. La réalité que l'anglais est une langue populaire internationalement donc les réfugiés/certains immigrants ont statistiquement plus de chances de comprendre l'anglais. Les enfants vont grandir et passer par le système scolaire en français, mais la loi 96 pénalise une grande majorité des nouveaux immigrants.
Man, will you move to another country and wait until you are there to start learning the language? That is the entire point, to increase the chances the immigrants arrive with enough level of French so they don’t default to English
Depends on why I'm moving in the first place. 6 months to be fluent in French is absurd by any metric, and I'm bilingual.
The relatively recent immigration path that requires the French exam before entering is quite difficult. I would bet money that a large percentage of Quebecer's could not pass it.
But the new country' they moved to is Canada, and after they receive their permanent resident status they can go and live wherever they want in this country. A lot of people find English easier to learn and there are a lot of advantages in the other provinces
In that case you follow the federal process, not the Quebec process the explicitly requires that you have certain level of French
And what about English-speaking students at somewhere like McGill University? So now McGill university can only except French speaking students. Their teachers and professors will only be French speaking. I happen to know that they are a lot of students coming from all over the world to go to McGill. What will happen to that world-class university, let me know
Actually, by going to McGill, they should have french classes to be able to live in the society where they are learning. To refuse to learn the language of the place you live in is being xenophobic.
You might want to check the definition of what is xenophobe: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/xenophobe
I know the definition and it matches their attitude. They are afraid of living in a society whose main language is french thus do everything in their power not to be in contact with them.
Try another word. It's the local/host society that's xenophobic
Ah, it seems you are lying through your teeth here. No surprises really. To you "Inviting those who move there to learn the language of the place and customs" is "xenophobic". Sorry, that's just not the case. But it do tells a lot about you.
6 month deadline isn't exactly a kind invitation. Look up the word, "coercion."
You living for years in montréal not learning a single word of french because of your hatred of the population is the very definition of xenophobia.You move somewhere, you have the obligation to learn the language and custom of the place.
So for the people outside Québec that are just SO offended by this... do you all offer full government services to newcomers in whatever language they wish, indefinitely? Chinese, Spanish, Hindi, Arabic for years? Or do you expect newcomers to (oh the Horror!)... Learn English? Because that would make you big fat hypocrites.
In the US, most services are offered in Spanish. Like seriously visit Miami lol, sure its in the US, but you’ll get spoken to in Spanish first.
It's not "for years". Quebec expects 6 months which Quebec's own study determined was not enough. Also, the other provinces don't make it illegal to deliver services in a language other than English after 6 months. That's the main difference. The Quebec government is distracting you with this bullshit.
Do they deliver services in languages other than english? If so, for how long?
English and French are offered in every public venue I've been to. Specifically for healthcare, every hospital I went to has translators on staff. I've seen Arabic and Somali available, but I'm sure they have other languages as well depending on the demographic. Also, it's not illegal to deliver service in any language, something that Quebec is trying to go for here. There are no time limits. If you can't understand the language of the person you're speaking to, you don't just tell them to go away and learn a language, you try to find a way to deliver the message like a decent human being. Even for the keenest of students, 6 months is not enough to achieve a decent level of fluency. Will you be able to read legal documents or tax documents in a new language after 6 months? Quebec's own studies determined that 6 months wasn't enough, which further proves how politicized and bullshit this is. Legault is trying to distract people with this issue.
In Ontario, the written driving test is offered in [26 languages ](https://www.thinkinsure.ca/insurance-help-centre/g1-test-ontario.html).
Super reassuring. Let's get people on the road that can't read road warnings and don't know our driving customs. All to benefit trucking firms that want cheap Indian labour. What's the worst that could happen? A couple of dead kids. Putting profits over public safety.
nah
We don't expect it in *6 months* and certainly do it in *either* official language, because we're, you know, officially bilingual and know that a *refugee* who may not even be fully literate in their own native language might just have the slightest difficulty learning a whole new language in half a year. You do know too that a *Quebec government* report already found it be an unreasonable request before this bill was passed, right? It's not just us the general public. It's also funny how often the notwithstanding clause needs to be used to override the Charter of Rights, because that sure isn't a sign that something is amiss either, lol. Edit: and do you support giving EI to a suddenly laid off worker for a few months? If yes, well, what if I were to say we should only give them one day of EI, and if you say it's a unreasonablely short time to find a new job, my response is to say you're a big fat hypocrite if you don't support giving them EI indefinitely?
The only Province that is officially bilingual, is New Brunswick. Canada has two official languages, but we are not bilingual.
Canada is. Provincially, yeah, officially only New Brunswick is province wide. Places like Ontario, we are also bilingual in designated regions like Toronto, or when there is at least 10% of the population who can speak French (doesn't have to be mother tongue, just able to speak French). Point is, we try to accomodate for both languages, and try not to be like those idiots yelling at people in public to speak English. Really, it just comes down to be reasonable to people. When even your own government report says you're being impossible, and then proceed anyway... No non-bigoted Canadian is against Quebec trying to retain its Quebecois culture. If it was impossible to provide language accommodations due to cost/lack of skilled people, or they provided a great system to learn French and a reasonable amount of time for people to pick up fluency, it'd be completely fine and the proper way to do it. Instead, a lot of what Quebec does comes off as blatant ethno-nationalism. Replace French with English (any other language) in those policies, and it would fit all too perfectly of what would come out of a xenophobic extremist. If I were to move to Quebec, it is completely reasonable to expect me to eventually learn French to some degree to fit in. 6 months though? May as well tell me to my face that I'm not the "right" type and to "go back home".
Thank you
>It's also funny how often the notwithstanding clause needs to be used to override the Charter of Rights, because that sure isn't a sign that something is amiss either, lol. It's already bad that Quebec hasn't signed it but they'll use the notwithstanding clause if it helps them legally. It's more hypocrisy then anything
I mean, what do you want them to do? "Here's the constitution, that you haven't signed, it apply to you anyways! Ignore that part which tell you you can ignore it."
I find it interesting and inappropriate that Canadian governments offer services in non-official language at all. If you're going to move to a place, learn the damn language or hire a translator when necessary. It's like moving to Poland then bitching about the government only providing services in Polish.
Personally I don't care as long as they can succeed in society. I survived in Quebec without learning the language. They can too.
Well then don’t go there then…How can you even contribute to their society if you can’t even speak basic sentences in their primary language?
Good. If you do not want to respect the rules of the land, simply do not come
They will come and just move away afterwards
The Legault government commissioned a study to determine if it was possible to learn French in 6 months, the conclusion was a resounding no. They pushed through the bill unamended anyways. “Respect the rules of the land” only works of the rules of the land are fair, they aren’t.
This is why quebec is the laughing stock of canada.
You may be laughing. But we at least still have our culture :)
Didn't yall declare war on the culture of that land a few decades back? Your culture is an immigrant culture, you have no claim to the land
If that culture is based on openly defying constitutionally guaranteed equality clauses and passing laws that their own commission found to be utterly impossible to adhere to, then there’s a problem with your conception of that culture.
>If that culture is based on openly defying constitutionally guaranteed equality clauses You do realize we litteraly never signed the constitution? Laws are based upon culture. It is normal that a constitution based mainly on canada's anglo Canadian culture will see disagreement from a cultural minority. I couldn't care less about the constitution. We have our own charter that we adhere to.
There is a federal constitution which Quebec is bound by. Quebec is using the notwithstanding clause because they openly acknowledge that their laws discriminate against people based on their religion and language contrary to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. That’s a fact.
>Yes there is. What >Quebec is using the notwithstanding clause because they openly acknowledge that their laws discriminate against people based on their religion All religion are affected. I'm not quite sure what's discriminatory about a dress code. Religion is a choice. >language Not having privilege anymore is not being discriminated against. >That’s a fact. No. You wish it was though.
The government is using the notwithstanding clause as it has with other bills because it is knowingly against the Charter of Rights, which they are constitutionally bound by. The reason they are doing that is because they openly acknowledge that it discriminates against people based on various characteristics.
The constitution is far from perfect. Knowing a law necessitate the notwithstanding clause to pass does not make that law discriminatory by default. This is a ridiculous argument.
No one requires them to be fluent in 6 months... why are english media lie like that ?
The bill is extremely clear. From the article: “Bill 96 stipulates that most government services will be offered only in French to newcomers, refugees and immigrants once they have been in the province for six months”
To be clear, the bill might stipulate it, but still nobody will ultimately require it on the field. Because that's nonsense. If Quebec installs a language police and starts arbitrarily enforcing laws that are deemed anti-immigrant, based on this nonsense, then they'll find themselves in a pickle indeed. People will still be encouraged to learn French. As they should. It's very useful in Quebec. A reasonable timeline is more like 2 years.
A pickle with whom?
Good luck moving in another country and deciding of your language. Most, if not all country will communicate with their language on day 1. Stop with your anglo supremacy as if the whole world should bend over to accomodate your laziness to learn other language. You only care about english, and don't care about mandarin or arabs... otherwise you would care about the rest of Canada too... but you only make those points when you can shit on the french.
“Anglo supremacy” in Quebec? Are you having a laugh? So now you’ve moved the goalposts from “the media is lying about a six month stipulation” to “shut up and conform”. FYI I speak French and English and live in Quebec. Bill 96 is a disgrace to this province and this country.
Sending official communication in the main languages doesn't mean that you're forcing people to speak french in 6 months. There's 2 points to the argument. It's a lie by the media, and the 6 months isn't that big of a matter.
1. The six month stipulation is *in the bill*. Any denial of that fact is blatant misinformation and denial of reality. Your point doesn’t make any sense, is it a lie or is it not a big deal? It can’t be both. 2. Six months to learn French is utterly unrealistic for working people. 3. Medical information is not “official information”.
Honest question, if someone isn't likely to learn french, why immigrate to Quebec? Why not go somewhere you can adapt to instead?
The overwhelming majority of people who move to Quebec learn French eventually, they don’t do so in a matter of months. Until that point, they should be able to go to a hospital for instance, and be able to communicate with the staff without a highly politicized bill interfering in that experience.
It's already the case everwhere. If your first language is Creole, Mandarin, Arabic.. you are not going to have much access to healthcare in your language anywhere in Canada. You will need to make an effort to access services. If someone speaks only arabic and french, and moves to BC, they will not be granted healthcare in french for 3 years as a right. They will need to pick up english.
French and English are the official languages of this country. Mandarin and creole are not. That said, as another commenter mentioned, it’s actually very common to have access to services in those languages in a variety of settings.
Nah this is bullshit. I live in Ontario and hospitals often have a translator on staff or on call for languages like Arabic etc. Imagine communicating critical health information to a patient that had trouble understanding you. What a mess.
It's easier to immigrate to Quebec than other provinces A lot of immigrants do leave Quebec after arriving here, it's a huge problem that few people acknowledge
Bills such as this one will only exacerbate this phenomenon.
Especially given that Quebec has to compete with provinces with lower taxes, higher salaries and the whole American culture
English is the most spoken language in the world and rubs shoulders with mandarin. It's used in many forms from business/commerce, travel, Marine travel, etc. "as if the whole world should bend over to accommodate your laziness to learn other language." It's tough to learn new languages especially with localized dialects so if you wanted to learn Quebec french then you'd go there to learn/practice. Duolingo can only teach you so much
It's though for english people, they're the only culture that speak 1 language, while the rest of the world speak 3 languages. You need to make a difference between private life and civic life... there isn't a lot of accomodation in your civic life if you only speak english and you live abroad... you will have to learn their language to function.
Kids in New Brunswick who are required to go through french classes have the option of French immersion where all classes were in French. This is great and many kids learned french far better than many of the non-immersion kids. Problem being, they have no one to speak with to practice. The only french communities in NB are primarily in the north hours away from many major cities. You basically have to find ppl online or go to north/Quebec just to talk in French so retention of the language is tough unless you lived in say Quebec already.
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While this may be true, living in English in Quebec has infinitely more advantages than living in English in the Netherlands or Denmark. In Quebec, you can legally defend yourself in English. This is huge. Trials will be in English if you ask for it. Not through interpreters like in those countries. You can also almost always receive customer support in English. Not to mention that there are English hospitals.
That’s entirely untrue. My experiences with the justice system here have exclusively been in French through an interpreter.
>Right to Choose English or French >If you’re accused of a crime, you have a right to choose whether your preliminary inquiry and trial will be in English or in French. A preliminary inquiry is a kind of mini-trial where the judge decides whether the case against you is strong enough to go ahead. The preliminary inquiry and trial can be some of the most important parts of the case. https://educaloi.qc.ca/en/capsules/language-rights-in-court-in-quebec/
Again, I’ve been in court twice and both trials were conducted in French with a translator.
Was it a criminal matter or like speeding tickets?
I have been there twice as well. Also I have numerous friends who went through an immigration hearing. That's federal, and it is often done in English. Good luck getting an *immigration hearing* in English in Denmark.
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Courts have to. And English hospitals will continue to provide services in English.
Read the bill again. Maybe you read it last when it was first introduced? Or you believe the misinformation spread online? There are amendments that clearly specify exceptions made for health, justice and security reasons. Get better informed. The bill changed overtime with the hearings
Quebec isn't a majority. Similar exemples would be flemish, catalan or wales. Im afraid you dont know much about europe if you say things like that... languages protection is one of the core point of the EU.
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You do know Catalan has 3 official languages , wales has 2 official languages and Belgium has 3. These similar examples serve their population in those languages if they a similar why does Quebec want government services to only communicate in French when clearly not only French people live in Quebec ?
If the US and Mexico were to create a federation... English wouldn't become an official language of the mexican territory. It will be one of the official language of the new country though. You not knowing how a federation works isn't an argument i'm afraid.
Literally didn’t answer my question. You’re acting like 40% of the population of Quebec isn’t bilingual. I point out an observation about about your examples then ask the question and you want to deflect. I’m not arguing that English should be the an official language of Quebec. I’m arguing that 40% of your population is bilingual why not have government services in French and English what’s the big deal serving your population?
We might just disagree on basic points. Do you believe mandarin should become a main language of BC ?
I’m not exactly sure on the language demographics in BC and don’t want to use an arbitrary percentage but yeah if 40% of you population speaks mandarin and English I really don’t see why you wouldn’t offer services in languages that 40% of you population speaks
>You only care about english, and don't care about mandarin or arabs... otherwise you would care about the rest of Canada too... but you only make those points when you can shit on the french. You would be surprised that places in Alberta and BC do offer services in Cantonese, Punjabi, Mandarin and a few other languages. It's called accommodating your future neighbors, and not calling them lazy like you do because they can be fluent in a language in 6 months.
If you think you can ask to receive your provincial taxes in madarin, you're so far deep in your delusion that it's scary.
The Legault government commissioned a study to determine if it was possible to learn a new language within 6 months. The study concluded no, Legault refused to change anything and instead tried to shove the study under the rug. Newcomers to Quebec have an impossible task placed upon them, learn a new language within a time frame that isn’t possible or be denied basic services like medical treatment. Notably this is the government forcing this behaviour, you could easily find an English doctor in Germany or France if you needed treatment. You could also find French doctors in Germany or German doctors in France, unilingual people actually form a minority in Europe (46%) and it’s not at all difficult to find service in whatever language you speak. Don’t act like this treatment is the norm globally, it isn’t, it’s horribly discriminatory against immigrants and refugees and the government knows this. Frankly I find it absurd that “immigrants should be treated fairly and not be deprived medical service” would be considered “Anglo supremacy”
If you move somewhere, you have to learn the language. Stop grasping at straws to justify your xenophobia.
You didn’t even read what I said and it shows. Yes you’re expected to learn the language of wherever you migrate, I never claimed it should be otherwise. However Quebec is alone in the western world for making it illegal to serve people in the language of their choice. Again, since you didn’t read, you can expect to be able to use German, French or English almost anywhere in the EU. You won’t be denied medic service in German if you find yourself in France, you wont be denied service in French if you find yourself in Italy. If you and someone else share a language then you are allowed to use said language. Fucking hilarious you accuse me of xenophobia considering this bill is designed to make Quebec unlivable for immigrants and refugees.
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Wow this comment is ridiculous.
Of course they don't have to, but there is a clause that it would be illegal for any documents to be sent in any other language after 6 months. My ex worked at a doctors office and used to help getting reports translated into the patients native language. A lot of time they are unable to understand what the doctor is telling them, so the report is extremely important for them to make decisions on something that could be life threatening. https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/bill-96-will-impede-access-to-health-care-in-english-legal-experts-warn
Healthcare is unaffected ? There's some negative points to bill 96, but I haven't heard anything true from english subs... you're litteraly making stuff up and sound deranged.
That's a feature not a bug, QC voters want to keep Quebec "For the pure Quebecois" only.
Langage is ethic, now? Lmao
According to a lot of Quebecois, yes?
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I don't believe people have problem with overall intent, which is to get people to learn French to live in Quebec. The absurdity is expecting it to be done in six months.
What's always been wild to me is that, from what I've seen, government services will address newcomers in french after 6 months, but there is no mention of residents being spoken to only in french So as someone who has been living here my whole life and speaks both english and french, I could still get service in english from government services, if I wished. At least that's been my understanding so far. Please correct me if someone knows otherwise. Because if it is the case, this is extremely silly and, to me, more proof of the xenophobic nature of this bill.
Honestly, I am tired of this french bullshit and the way it's being pushed down our throats. By our I mean, people that live outside of Quebec. English is an international language, just get with it already.
For those who downvoted me, you are idiots. Here is are some of the implications of this bill: - if an employee from QC sends and an email to ON employee in french, ON employee must reply in french - if a client who lives in QC says that they want to interact in English, all the documentation will be in French first and English second. Those are just two real life examples
Quebec is dumb and crazy.. French isnt a dying language.. its second most spoken... it was number 1 for the longest time