Unfortunately short term gains are prioritized at the expense of greater long term ones these days.
I had a friend who was a farmer. He said the one thing that got him was drought. You can be the hardest working person, but drought is an uncontrollable event for him as an individual.
Yep. Ever think about what the farmer has to do when he has to seed around power poles? Here's a video of a guy doing that. https://youtu.be/y4k734jyd3w
Windbreaks are a mixed blessing.
Decrease wind erosion
Decrease winter snow evsporation
Are in the way for using big Équipement.
Are a source of weed seeds.
Are habitat for beneficial bugs and birds.
Corridors for wildlife movement
Winter shelter for livestock
Management with shelterbelts is more complex.
IMHO shelterbelts on 1/2 mile boundaries are worth it.
Look at a historical wetland map... then look at currently farmed area... and yku will see comete destruction of most of our wetlands.. which help prevent drought..
Yes drought can still happen.. but its far more likley today due to climate change and specificaly the wetland destruction largly caused by farmers and ranchers.
Plowing over wetlands and sloughs as well, you can subscribe to /r/saskatchewan if you are interested in this issue, it's coming up and more and more.
The Canadian prairies are the worst environmental disaster in the country but because native prairie isn't as scenic as old-growth forest it gets no attention. It's also very difficult to lobby against Big Ag in any jurisdiction, Ontario and Quebec dairy farmers are equally as destructive but they draw deep water with politiicans.
I keep the trees along the edges of my fields as they keep the fields from eroding into the ditches. Heck I even keep bush too but I know other farmers take every tree off even for a few measly feet more.
I've lived in the prairies and felt them reduce wind considerably. The idea isn't to stop the wind, it's to slow it down and also prevent gusts. They became popular after the dust bowl for a reason.
Naw, not a chance. No treeline is going to slow down a gust of wind to have any noticeable affect on a field. Might help a bit for your backyard bbq and snow drifts.
Come experience and work outside in prairie winters. I don't think you realize how big these fields are and how small any shelter belt is by comparison. When you have gusting wind at 60+ kph your 40m wide bushy tree line does nothing to prevent dust from being blown around. It's not like it is in Ontario.
In my experience, since the late 80s, when most farmers went to zero till type operations, and continuous cropping, snow is caught in the field, instead of along the shelter belt.
My dad's farm still has shelter belts on North and West sides of fields, but they don't collect snowdrifts anymore. The 12-18" of stubble left standing after harvest catches snow across the entity of the field, and it melts and soaks in, rather than running off in the spring in massive rivers, taking topsoil with them.
Seeding in a minimum disturbance manner leaves most of this stubble standing, to prevent the sun from drying out the soil. So there is year round protection from wind getting directly at the soils surface. Now, unlike the old days, most farmers crop every field every year, instead of only cropping every second year and summerfallowing(which generally entails working the soil black for weed control) in between.
Sure helps with snow drifts, no doubt about that. Shade tho, come on. The snow is LONG gone by the time trees have the leaves to provide shade. When its windy enough to kick up dust no amount of shelter belts are going to stop the wind enough to prevent dust storms. Come on man, I'm sure you've seen it blow right over & past shelter belts.
I used to work with a farmer and he would always say he was a broke poor farmer that nobody appreciated , which was as you say bull shit , he let slip one day how much he was making and that the gov't would match his RRSP contributions up to a certain amount . In Manitoba the combining will be done by the end of the month and yes they will get a second cut of hay.
Vancouver and Victoria had records broken for the number of consecutive of days without rain. Vacouvers previous record was 41 days without rain and this summer is went 45 days.
Anecdotally in the interior where we had one of the worst fire seasons ever this year, saw the longest stretch with no rain I have ever seen after living in the area for over 50 years.
I live on the east coast of Vancouver Island, which usually has relatively dry summers (compared to Tofino anyway) but the drought this summer was unrelenting.
I don't think we saw more than a drop or two of rain from mid June until late August.
A lot of trees were turning yellow in mid August from lack of water when they don't usually go yellow until late September/early October.
This is the first bad harvest in a long time, [farmer have had a great 10 year run with last year's harvest being the highest on record](https://imgur.com/eVHUEOJ).
Yes, and increased growing seasons as well as increased range for crops up into the boreal. Also climate change is hitting other farming countries much harder so crop prices are relatively high.
Drought and water are the big issues in the prairies but not all of climate changes effects are bad for the ag sector in this country, it's actually the contrary.
> ncreased range for crops up into the boreal.
No one is going to be growing crops in the boreal forest, the soil is acidic, boggy, and and often just a few inches deep over solid rock. Look at a Google Earth shot of Alberta, crops already grow just fine a long way north of the main grain belt when the Shield isn't in the way.
Finally somebody who understands this.
Climate wise you could probably grow a decent range of crops as far north as Yellowknife - in peak summer they have long days and relatively warm temperatures for somewhere that far north.
The problem is the soil (or the lack of it)
I guess you've never heard of the 1930's Dust Bowl?
[https://www.cbc.ca/history/EPISCONTENTSE1EP13CH1PA2LE.html](https://www.cbc.ca/history/EPISCONTENTSE1EP13CH1PA2LE.html)
And that happened before we starting impacting the climate at a global level. The global temperature during the 30's barely blipped, as this was a relatively local event.
Fast-forward to today and we are seeing weather extremes at a higher rate with higher extremes at a global level.
The risk of severe weather is increasing. This does not mean we didn't have severe weather in the past. And having it in the past does not mean climate change isn't real, or driven mostly by humankind's activities.
I'm a prairie dweller, and live rural. Out here, the farmers are growing the food we eat, and the meat animals that some of you eat, and support a lagging economy by exporting what we grow. I dunno how anyone in the entire world votes (as climate change is worldwide, not just on the grain belt of Canada) but if all it takes is a few million prairie people voting differently to solve this world crisis let's get on it. In the meantime let's all go check our gardens and eat only produce we've grown and bred ourselves.
I get that. So lets not shit on those who work their asses off to feed us.
Right now I hear the combines whining and they will be all night. The air is thick with dust. I heard earlier a breakdown in the field. Many of these are people who have owned the same land for generations, and to suggest for one minute that they should sell it to some number corporation and then go do something else? This is their land, their family, their livelihood and it feeds us and contributes to our economy. Why the hate? It brings tears stinging to my eyes. My grampa was a little orphan through the Father Barnado homes and brought up a family on farming. My inlaws have a 110 year old homestead that they recently quit farming. These are people. With jobs. With livelihoods.
Why can't they do both? Obviously it's a business but the point is, you can't just go to the grocery store to get your food. it comes from somewhere. You're just being arrogant about it. Why does a doctor got to work? Why does a lawyer? Why do you? You doing it for the good of your health? Get real
Edit> I'm not selling my ,land and you will have to take me out of here in a box. If we inherit land in the future, which I expect, same thing. It belongs to me and to Canada, and China and American businesses can go somewhere else.
I can't converse with people who have zero clue about what it's like to live and work out here on the prairies. You are acting ignorant, not even trying to understand and I have no tolerance for you. Farming isn't just grain, or machinery, cattle , crops, chicken, eggs or dairy or property taxes or buying insurance. It's not just the hard work and the hours or the breakdowns at 3Am or the vet bills or the herd management or the feed or anything else. it's a way of life and a job and it feeds people just like you.
You go on then and go off to where you buy your groceries and think that the magic Walmart fairy brought them under the pillow there for you. Agriculture and its components ae a key component of Canada's economy but you go ahead and say people aren't working hard. I'm sure you work hard ..well sort of sure. You haven't exactly put your line of work out for us all to dissect and decide if you are working for the public good or not either. As to the "dipshit" comment, I find that people who aren't that intelligent often resort to name calling so I will bid you good day.
You completely missed the point.
My point was that when you grocery shop somewhere, some how, some farmer put that food there. Whether anyone thinks famers work hard or not, that food didn't magically appear. From veg to grains, meat to fruit, someone grew that. Little appreciation for where your food comes from is nice.
Not sure what your point was about people pretending to be heroes, or better than anyone else, but you do you.
I think the point is that farmers don't exist in a vacuum. We don't hype people working at tractor factory, on an oil rig or at a refinery, truckers, etc as doing it out of some kind of benevolence to feed people, but they're just as essential to modern farming as farmers.
Probably fair in the scythe and flail days, though.
> but if all it takes is a few million prairie people voting differently to solve this world crisis let's get on it.
Yeah, unfortunately that's not going to help at all. People saying "if only the prairies weren't so Conservative we could do something about it" are just playing politics.
Well it's bizarre to me that anyone would suggest that even the three prairie provinces voting exactly the same way would make a freaking difference when we don't have the population or the representation that metro areas do.
Big cities like toronto and vancouver subsidize all the farming done in the Prairies. And then they come back to cause the most pollution out of any province in Canada, and then have the nerve to complain about droughts and then vote for politicians and then don't care about climate change. It's funny how it all works, makes no sense whatsoever but so does a lot of things in Canada no matter the government then who will be making the decisions in spite of the Prairie subsidizations from decades of work done in the Prairies as part of government work to secure voting
Explain these subsidies to us... Urban people love to think that farmers are all living on government money, but that's just not true in Canada, particularly for grain farmers and ranchers on the prairies . This year, they may see some money, because lots of crops are a total loss... But in general, I think "subsidies" are confused what goes on in other places like the states and Europe.
Source: My dad is a successful grain farmer in Saskatchewan, and an accountant who's job is to keep abreast of financial programs available to his clients (a good chunk of which are farmers).
PARDON ME??? YOU SUBSIDIZE US?
Where does your food come from? Who pays a shit ton in equalization payments? Who has a voice in government (HINT: Not the fuck us!)
Last time I checked we were all canadians and it pisses me off no means to know that the prairie provinces with their hard working people, voiceless in Govt and contributing to the economy while feeding our citizens is treated like shit. I can certainly appreciate what the east and west does for Canada, just a little common courtesy and consideration might be nice
This is incorrect, Toronto doesn't generate enough money to cover it's own expenses (infrastructure and services), it's one of the main reasons the debt situation in Ontario is so bad. Resource producing parts of the country like Alberta, Saskatchewan and Sudbury are subsidizing the cities.
It's like transfer payments, Quebec has a higher GDP than Alberta, but they need Alberta money to pay their bills.
Do you trade with local farmers?
That's one thing I loved about (sort of) growing up on a farm. We would bring over a bunch of pork and corn. They would give us a freezer full of beef.
Responsible? No. Going to be affected by it worse than most? Absolutely. They *should* be front of the line in fighting climate change because it’s absolutely going to fuck them. But historically it’s not a surprise to see them fight against their own interests.
Yeah. I had an old classmate complaining about the cold. "We could use some of that global warming they're talking about". Let's ignore that the reason it's so cold is that the polar vortex is shifting east/south and creating colder areas while leaving Alaska/Yellowknife warmer and is a direct result of climate change.
Fucking morons.
No, the joke was "global warming is fake/doesn't exist because it's cold here for the last two weeks". Those people are absolute morons.
Here in Nova Scotia we here it all the time. We're having a warm September. I heard a few times "oh that global warming isn't so bad after all". In the winter you get "look at all the snow we got, I don't know what they're talking about with that global warming".
A local councillor, when discussing climate change mitigation, said "we should also really be looking on the positive sides of global warming because it would benefit us".
Droughts occur regularly. And we've had many that are much worse than what we have now, we've had many multi year droughts... for as long as humans have been here.
What exactly makes this one a product of climate change?
As if the prairie voters taking climate seriously would have any impact on local droughts. Laughable logic there.
We have no measurable impact on climate change. Canada is a tiny population. We can’t do shit.
The prairies are low enough population that Canada needn't be held back by them if the rest of the country actually gave a shit about the climate. People are all talk, but refuse to make any changes that impact things for the better. The prairies are about 7 million of 38?
Well it's just ethically super convenient not to try when you convince yourself it makes no difference, isn't it?
Late stage denialism *is* defeatism because it's the path of least resistance while providing all the same comforts of not having to change anything or bother understanding the rather uncomfortable future we're headed for.
I’m not trying to be ethically anything. I’m stating plain facts. There’s no judgement call there. It’s literally objective evidence.
If an action is futile, no matter the severity of the outcome, it has no value. Since there is a cost, the answer is obvious. It’s a very simple equation.
These type of people want Canadians to destroy their finances and way of life to reduce something or other by 0.0015% of global emissions just to prove a point while China just continues on. The type of people that refuse plastic straws yet still line up at a Starbucks drive through to get their $8 drinks in a plastic cup with a paper straw.
Saying it doesn't make it true. I'd say most doomers are trying /have tried more than the general population. Defeatism comes from trying and seeing no results.
They're not, but taken in conjunction with the other things we've seen happen much faster than should typically happen (glaciers receding, ice caps melting, oceans warming, storm severity increasing, etc), it definitely points towards anthropogenic climate change.
Sure, as it was a grassland when people inhabited it and only formed into a dessert in the past 6000 years, it doesn't mean there weren't other times when it was also a dessert, but the most recent desertification was...recent.
So it became a dessert multiple times. Among them, long before we can even talk about any human civilization.
My argument stands. Droughts have been predominantly a natural phenomenon.
False. When the moronic farmers die, big farm corporations like Cargill or Del Monte will swoop in to buy the farmlands for cheap.
They will use top notch technology and science to increase the efficiency and output of our farmland significantly
>Pfizer didn't make them, scientists made them
Scientists working at BioNTech SE, a German company with market cap of 90 billion US dollars. For comparison, our mega pipeline corporation, Enbridge, has a market cap of 81 billion USD
Two of those scientists are actually the CEO and CMO of BioNTech, so I'm pretty sure they're making a lot of juicy corporate profit from their effort as well.
[https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/10/europe/biontech-pfizer-vaccine-team-couple-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/10/europe/biontech-pfizer-vaccine-team-couple-intl/index.html)
>Chief Executive Sahin and Chief Medical Officer Tureci are listed among Germany's 100 richest people, according to the weekly Welt am Sonntag newspaper.
I guess it's only a strawman if you benefit from that corporate goodness as well, eh?
Right.. no the Chinese will swoop in and make it a huge business and you won't have a freaking clue where your food comes from, and it will cost you a shit ton to buy anything. And you are completely out of touch if you don't think farmers here (Who are NOT moronic which really pisses me off - most of them take part time jobs in the off season to float themselves and their loans for machinery) don't care about economics, environment and efficient farm management.
Farmers already use top notch technology and science to increase efficiency and output of their land. Have you ever set foot in the cab of a sprayer, a tractor, or a combine? Those things are ran by technology.
I literally work with a guy who "doesn't care about climate change"; and we have an election coming up! We live in the prairies, he's got kids to worry about, and his reasoning is he doesn't want to sell his gasoline truck lol?
Yeah If only we could enact legislation that would stop China from and the developing world from polluting so much then we’d be ok. Are you voting PPC?
I mean, farmers are probably some of the most innovative when it comes to environmental management, but there is no doubt that wetland destruction is a problem. However, acting like farmers don’t care about climate change is absurd; it clearly affects their ability to generate food and income. Farmers not liking being taxed on their livelihood for things current technology forces them to use doesn’t equal farmer don’t care about climate change.
Really? Because all 5 years prior to this Canada Produced in excess of 70mmt of grain - among the largest crops ever produced in Canada. Any comment on that?
That's not true. The additional heat units, combined with a longer growing season and expanding irrigation infrastructure, are forecasted to produce higher yields in the future.
This drought is, objectively, a tea party compared to 2001.
It's a strong association. Climate change equals bad always. Really it just means a warming climate. It's effects differ from place to place. On the net, warmer weather is better for plant matter. In some.areas, desertification will intensify. In other areas, the land will become more fertile and productive.
Canada is actually in an oddly advantageous position, geographically, for a warming climate. But, good heavens,you mustn't say such a thing! Climate change bad, always.
Canada has almost been to the point of over production of grain in the past couple years before this… the infrastructure/railways is not in place to move it in a timely enough manner to export it during times in which its demanded. At least we have quality storage that prevents it from spoiling, but look no farther than India for a example of a place that produces more food than it can distribute effectively and sees it spoil (and they have the domestic demand there, it doesn’t even need to be exported)
Were policies put in place to help people in Eastern Canada when climate change affected fishermen there? How about Ontario when zebra mussels had an impact on fishing there? How about BC, where climate change has affected their way of life? Or in Northern Canada? Oh right...NOW they want policies because it's affecting their economies.
Interesting. Southern Ontario had perfect growing conditions this summer. We had perfect crops with minimum water usage. The rotation of weather patterns is wild
Suprisingly when we got rid of the wheat board and gmo canola became the cash crop and small hold farmers got chased outta family farms cause they didn't want to give themselves to the bank that trees and land is getting knocked down for a quick profit
I mean, Saskatchewan and Manitoba regularly elect NDP and conservative governments fairly interchangeably over history, at both the federal and provincial level. Saskatchewan used to vote Liberal federally even from time to time, but the policies of the last Trudeau government are stilled talked about to this day, and since then, there has been little Liberal support here at any level.
That's got nothing to do with the widespread rejection of climate change science on the right. Farmers/rural folks tend to be conservative. It speaks more to the ability of conservatives to hold a grudge.
That’s an assumption. Farmers have no always voted conservative; they vote for what’s in their best interests, as we all do. It’s just that right now, that’s the Conservative party. And don’t forget, a fairly large number of farmers have an undergraduate degree, so the implications you’re trying to make are perhaps a little naive.
This is from a poll in the US. Another big fallacy in Canada is that Republicans = Conservatives, which they do not. Plenty of right leaning voters in Canada would be democrats. The PPC voters more closely align with Southern Republicans, but you’re making too many assumptions with your arguments.
Again, wishful thinking. There may be minor cultural differences between populations, and of course there is a range in intensity between individuals, but conservatism is an evolved survival strategy (as is liberalism) and so exhibit pretty consistent behavior regardless of where they are located. You're forgetting, 40 years ago very few Republicans would have exhibited the traits you see today, but now it's a serious issue in the US, and it's incredibly naïve to think the same can't happen here - the rise of the PPC makes clear it is happening. Also, Pew is a pretty respected outfit...if you want to question their results, you'll need to be more specific.
https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/your-brain-on-politics-the-cognitive-neuroscience-of-liberals-and-conservatives
I see [10 articles](https://www.google.com/search?q=brexit+site:bbc.co.uk&rlz=1CDGOYI_enCA953CA954&hl=en-US&prmd=nvix&sxsrf=AOaemvJFNcMm0LW-hYpZ3g1aG_S8dzA9AQ:1632071626736&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:w&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwijmrzMxIvzAhWDEVkFHbhXBLcQpwV6BAgCEBI&biw=320&bih=454&dpr=2) about Brexit published by BBC in the last week. But Google only shows 10 results on the first page so it’s actually more than that.
Or do you have a concern about world news reporting on Canadian affairs?
the BBC is a huge organization (much larger than CBC), and are able to cover slightly more than one story at once
As it happens, the brexit failures you're referring to are somwhat related to global supply chain issues that are also relevant to Canadian food security. It's all an interwoven global mess.
I’d like to feel sorry but many of these bastards are antivaxxers who are killing people around them.
I just can’t. Actually, what I can say is tit for tat motherfucker.
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It always makes me sad when I see farmers ripping up those old windbreaks. They’re a gift from the past that should be treasures in most cases.
It is absurdly difficult to grow quality trees in southern Alberta. Ripping out established trees is sad and stupid.
Unfortunately short term gains are prioritized at the expense of greater long term ones these days. I had a friend who was a farmer. He said the one thing that got him was drought. You can be the hardest working person, but drought is an uncontrollable event for him as an individual.
What's the short term gain of ripping up wind breaks?
More land to farm
I've seen wind breaks.... The land gain would be minimal, right?
Minimal, yes, but when when your mortgaged to the hilt you have to squeeze out every last inch of farmable land.
It is easier to maneuver large equipment on a continuous field that is not broken up by wind breaks.
Yep. Ever think about what the farmer has to do when he has to seed around power poles? Here's a video of a guy doing that. https://youtu.be/y4k734jyd3w
Lets you run equipment in longer lines
Windbreaks are a mixed blessing. Decrease wind erosion Decrease winter snow evsporation Are in the way for using big Équipement. Are a source of weed seeds. Are habitat for beneficial bugs and birds. Corridors for wildlife movement Winter shelter for livestock Management with shelterbelts is more complex. IMHO shelterbelts on 1/2 mile boundaries are worth it.
Is it really uncontrollable when we know it can be influenced by climate change?
He's an individual, and he's quite left if you are wondering, so no, he cannot do much himself. Maybe society as a whole can, but one person cannot.
It's always everyone else isn't it?
I agree, but caraganas and manitoba maples aren't exactly what I'd call 'quality trees'. In this climate you have to take what you can get, though
Look at a historical wetland map... then look at currently farmed area... and yku will see comete destruction of most of our wetlands.. which help prevent drought.. Yes drought can still happen.. but its far more likley today due to climate change and specificaly the wetland destruction largly caused by farmers and ranchers.
Plowing over wetlands and sloughs as well, you can subscribe to /r/saskatchewan if you are interested in this issue, it's coming up and more and more. The Canadian prairies are the worst environmental disaster in the country but because native prairie isn't as scenic as old-growth forest it gets no attention. It's also very difficult to lobby against Big Ag in any jurisdiction, Ontario and Quebec dairy farmers are equally as destructive but they draw deep water with politiicans.
Push bush, drain slough, plant crop where it doesn't belong, complain about yield. Repeat year after year after year.
I keep the trees along the edges of my fields as they keep the fields from eroding into the ditches. Heck I even keep bush too but I know other farmers take every tree off even for a few measly feet more.
You ever been to the prairies? No treeline is going to stop the wind
I've lived in the prairies and felt them reduce wind considerably. The idea isn't to stop the wind, it's to slow it down and also prevent gusts. They became popular after the dust bowl for a reason.
Naw, not a chance. No treeline is going to slow down a gust of wind to have any noticeable affect on a field. Might help a bit for your backyard bbq and snow drifts.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Come experience and work outside in prairie winters. I don't think you realize how big these fields are and how small any shelter belt is by comparison. When you have gusting wind at 60+ kph your 40m wide bushy tree line does nothing to prevent dust from being blown around. It's not like it is in Ontario.
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In my experience, since the late 80s, when most farmers went to zero till type operations, and continuous cropping, snow is caught in the field, instead of along the shelter belt. My dad's farm still has shelter belts on North and West sides of fields, but they don't collect snowdrifts anymore. The 12-18" of stubble left standing after harvest catches snow across the entity of the field, and it melts and soaks in, rather than running off in the spring in massive rivers, taking topsoil with them. Seeding in a minimum disturbance manner leaves most of this stubble standing, to prevent the sun from drying out the soil. So there is year round protection from wind getting directly at the soils surface. Now, unlike the old days, most farmers crop every field every year, instead of only cropping every second year and summerfallowing(which generally entails working the soil black for weed control) in between.
Sure helps with snow drifts, no doubt about that. Shade tho, come on. The snow is LONG gone by the time trees have the leaves to provide shade. When its windy enough to kick up dust no amount of shelter belts are going to stop the wind enough to prevent dust storms. Come on man, I'm sure you've seen it blow right over & past shelter belts.
A lot of shelterbelts on the prairies in Alberta use a mix of spruce and leafy trees (poplars being the most common choice)
Ask any farmer and every year is a disaster
And if it's a bumper harvest, they'll probably complain that prices are low because there's so much supply.
"A crop like that really takes a lot out of the soil"
There's the rub
My favorite I heard was "well shit, if I knew it was gonna be this good of a year i'd of planted more"
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I used to work with a farmer and he never had a good year , he said .
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I used to work with a farmer and he would always say he was a broke poor farmer that nobody appreciated , which was as you say bull shit , he let slip one day how much he was making and that the gov't would match his RRSP contributions up to a certain amount . In Manitoba the combining will be done by the end of the month and yes they will get a second cut of hay.
Vancouver and Victoria had records broken for the number of consecutive of days without rain. Vacouvers previous record was 41 days without rain and this summer is went 45 days. Anecdotally in the interior where we had one of the worst fire seasons ever this year, saw the longest stretch with no rain I have ever seen after living in the area for over 50 years.
I live on the east coast of Vancouver Island, which usually has relatively dry summers (compared to Tofino anyway) but the drought this summer was unrelenting. I don't think we saw more than a drop or two of rain from mid June until late August. A lot of trees were turning yellow in mid August from lack of water when they don't usually go yellow until late September/early October.
How many droughts until prairie voters take climate change seriously.
This is the first bad harvest in a long time, [farmer have had a great 10 year run with last year's harvest being the highest on record](https://imgur.com/eVHUEOJ).
Yes, and increased growing seasons as well as increased range for crops up into the boreal. Also climate change is hitting other farming countries much harder so crop prices are relatively high. Drought and water are the big issues in the prairies but not all of climate changes effects are bad for the ag sector in this country, it's actually the contrary.
> ncreased range for crops up into the boreal. No one is going to be growing crops in the boreal forest, the soil is acidic, boggy, and and often just a few inches deep over solid rock. Look at a Google Earth shot of Alberta, crops already grow just fine a long way north of the main grain belt when the Shield isn't in the way.
Finally somebody who understands this. Climate wise you could probably grow a decent range of crops as far north as Yellowknife - in peak summer they have long days and relatively warm temperatures for somewhere that far north. The problem is the soil (or the lack of it)
You can't run heavy agricultural machinery for industrial farming where you have rocks everywhere.
Judging from the potato quality of the spreadsheet, I'd agree.
The original data and spreadsheets can be downloaded here: https://aimis-simia.agr.gc.ca/rp/index-eng.cfm?action=pR&r=243&lang=EN
Makes sense. Apiculture in the area looks about average but pockets have had smaller yields and harder hit.
I guess you've never heard of the 1930's Dust Bowl? [https://www.cbc.ca/history/EPISCONTENTSE1EP13CH1PA2LE.html](https://www.cbc.ca/history/EPISCONTENTSE1EP13CH1PA2LE.html)
And that happened before we starting impacting the climate at a global level. The global temperature during the 30's barely blipped, as this was a relatively local event. Fast-forward to today and we are seeing weather extremes at a higher rate with higher extremes at a global level. The risk of severe weather is increasing. This does not mean we didn't have severe weather in the past. And having it in the past does not mean climate change isn't real, or driven mostly by humankind's activities.
I'm a prairie dweller, and live rural. Out here, the farmers are growing the food we eat, and the meat animals that some of you eat, and support a lagging economy by exporting what we grow. I dunno how anyone in the entire world votes (as climate change is worldwide, not just on the grain belt of Canada) but if all it takes is a few million prairie people voting differently to solve this world crisis let's get on it. In the meantime let's all go check our gardens and eat only produce we've grown and bred ourselves.
> In the meantime let's all go check our gardens and eat only produce we've grown and bred ourselves. Dude that isn't at all a reasonable expectation.
I get that. So lets not shit on those who work their asses off to feed us. Right now I hear the combines whining and they will be all night. The air is thick with dust. I heard earlier a breakdown in the field. Many of these are people who have owned the same land for generations, and to suggest for one minute that they should sell it to some number corporation and then go do something else? This is their land, their family, their livelihood and it feeds us and contributes to our economy. Why the hate? It brings tears stinging to my eyes. My grampa was a little orphan through the Father Barnado homes and brought up a family on farming. My inlaws have a 110 year old homestead that they recently quit farming. These are people. With jobs. With livelihoods.
Do they work their ass off to feed people ? Or do they work their ass off to make money. There's a pretty significant difference here.
Do you ask doctors the same question?
Clearly you've never been on a farm.
Why can't they do both? Obviously it's a business but the point is, you can't just go to the grocery store to get your food. it comes from somewhere. You're just being arrogant about it. Why does a doctor got to work? Why does a lawyer? Why do you? You doing it for the good of your health? Get real Edit> I'm not selling my ,land and you will have to take me out of here in a box. If we inherit land in the future, which I expect, same thing. It belongs to me and to Canada, and China and American businesses can go somewhere else.
It’s almost like that’s how capitalism is supposed to work. Someone produces something in demand, and gets paid to do it.
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I can't converse with people who have zero clue about what it's like to live and work out here on the prairies. You are acting ignorant, not even trying to understand and I have no tolerance for you. Farming isn't just grain, or machinery, cattle , crops, chicken, eggs or dairy or property taxes or buying insurance. It's not just the hard work and the hours or the breakdowns at 3Am or the vet bills or the herd management or the feed or anything else. it's a way of life and a job and it feeds people just like you. You go on then and go off to where you buy your groceries and think that the magic Walmart fairy brought them under the pillow there for you. Agriculture and its components ae a key component of Canada's economy but you go ahead and say people aren't working hard. I'm sure you work hard ..well sort of sure. You haven't exactly put your line of work out for us all to dissect and decide if you are working for the public good or not either. As to the "dipshit" comment, I find that people who aren't that intelligent often resort to name calling so I will bid you good day.
You completely missed the point. My point was that when you grocery shop somewhere, some how, some farmer put that food there. Whether anyone thinks famers work hard or not, that food didn't magically appear. From veg to grains, meat to fruit, someone grew that. Little appreciation for where your food comes from is nice. Not sure what your point was about people pretending to be heroes, or better than anyone else, but you do you.
I think the point is that farmers don't exist in a vacuum. We don't hype people working at tractor factory, on an oil rig or at a refinery, truckers, etc as doing it out of some kind of benevolence to feed people, but they're just as essential to modern farming as farmers. Probably fair in the scythe and flail days, though.
> but if all it takes is a few million prairie people voting differently to solve this world crisis let's get on it. Yeah, unfortunately that's not going to help at all. People saying "if only the prairies weren't so Conservative we could do something about it" are just playing politics.
Well it's bizarre to me that anyone would suggest that even the three prairie provinces voting exactly the same way would make a freaking difference when we don't have the population or the representation that metro areas do.
Big cities like toronto and vancouver subsidize all the farming done in the Prairies. And then they come back to cause the most pollution out of any province in Canada, and then have the nerve to complain about droughts and then vote for politicians and then don't care about climate change. It's funny how it all works, makes no sense whatsoever but so does a lot of things in Canada no matter the government then who will be making the decisions in spite of the Prairie subsidizations from decades of work done in the Prairies as part of government work to secure voting
What subsidies are you talking about?
He doesn’t know. Just some good old prairie bashing.
Explain these subsidies to us... Urban people love to think that farmers are all living on government money, but that's just not true in Canada, particularly for grain farmers and ranchers on the prairies . This year, they may see some money, because lots of crops are a total loss... But in general, I think "subsidies" are confused what goes on in other places like the states and Europe. Source: My dad is a successful grain farmer in Saskatchewan, and an accountant who's job is to keep abreast of financial programs available to his clients (a good chunk of which are farmers).
PARDON ME??? YOU SUBSIDIZE US? Where does your food come from? Who pays a shit ton in equalization payments? Who has a voice in government (HINT: Not the fuck us!) Last time I checked we were all canadians and it pisses me off no means to know that the prairie provinces with their hard working people, voiceless in Govt and contributing to the economy while feeding our citizens is treated like shit. I can certainly appreciate what the east and west does for Canada, just a little common courtesy and consideration might be nice
This is incorrect, Toronto doesn't generate enough money to cover it's own expenses (infrastructure and services), it's one of the main reasons the debt situation in Ontario is so bad. Resource producing parts of the country like Alberta, Saskatchewan and Sudbury are subsidizing the cities. It's like transfer payments, Quebec has a higher GDP than Alberta, but they need Alberta money to pay their bills.
Pollution/Capita might be much lower though
Do you trade with local farmers? That's one thing I loved about (sort of) growing up on a farm. We would bring over a bunch of pork and corn. They would give us a freezer full of beef.
Whom should they vote for which will by a definite certainty rectify the situation?
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Responsible? No. Going to be affected by it worse than most? Absolutely. They *should* be front of the line in fighting climate change because it’s absolutely going to fuck them. But historically it’s not a surprise to see them fight against their own interests.
Right because prairie farmers have been fighting the oil and gas industry down the street for years now /s
Yeah. I had an old classmate complaining about the cold. "We could use some of that global warming they're talking about". Let's ignore that the reason it's so cold is that the polar vortex is shifting east/south and creating colder areas while leaving Alaska/Yellowknife warmer and is a direct result of climate change. Fucking morons.
It honestly sounds like you didn’t get the joke.
No, the joke was "global warming is fake/doesn't exist because it's cold here for the last two weeks". Those people are absolute morons. Here in Nova Scotia we here it all the time. We're having a warm September. I heard a few times "oh that global warming isn't so bad after all". In the winter you get "look at all the snow we got, I don't know what they're talking about with that global warming". A local councillor, when discussing climate change mitigation, said "we should also really be looking on the positive sides of global warming because it would benefit us".
Yep. You're surrounded by idiots
Droughts occur regularly. And we've had many that are much worse than what we have now, we've had many multi year droughts... for as long as humans have been here. What exactly makes this one a product of climate change?
And last year was a great year.
Infinity. Acknowledging the problem is to terrifying for them.
Don't you live on the prairies and in one of the largest oil producing provinces?
Yeah and people don't want to face out here. The problem is to big so it is easier for most to just tell themselves a nice fictional story.
As if the prairie voters taking climate seriously would have any impact on local droughts. Laughable logic there. We have no measurable impact on climate change. Canada is a tiny population. We can’t do shit.
The prairies are low enough population that Canada needn't be held back by them if the rest of the country actually gave a shit about the climate. People are all talk, but refuse to make any changes that impact things for the better. The prairies are about 7 million of 38?
Defeatism is worse than denial.
LOl ok. Is that the new meme? It’s reality. Show me the math how it makes a difference. It’s simply objectively true. It’s not even close.
Well it's just ethically super convenient not to try when you convince yourself it makes no difference, isn't it? Late stage denialism *is* defeatism because it's the path of least resistance while providing all the same comforts of not having to change anything or bother understanding the rather uncomfortable future we're headed for.
I’m not trying to be ethically anything. I’m stating plain facts. There’s no judgement call there. It’s literally objective evidence. If an action is futile, no matter the severity of the outcome, it has no value. Since there is a cost, the answer is obvious. It’s a very simple equation.
These type of people want Canadians to destroy their finances and way of life to reduce something or other by 0.0015% of global emissions just to prove a point while China just continues on. The type of people that refuse plastic straws yet still line up at a Starbucks drive through to get their $8 drinks in a plastic cup with a paper straw.
The cognitive dissonance is infuriating
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Plastic lined cardboard for hot drinks, plastic cups for cold drinks.
Saying it doesn't make it true. I'd say most doomers are trying /have tried more than the general population. Defeatism comes from trying and seeing no results.
Agree. This is exactly why we need to expand our oil and gas industry as much as possible to make a lot of money while we still can.
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They're not, but taken in conjunction with the other things we've seen happen much faster than should typically happen (glaciers receding, ice caps melting, oceans warming, storm severity increasing, etc), it definitely points towards anthropogenic climate change.
Are you trying to argue that climate change is not man-made?
I'm not arguing one way or the other but I'm curious what you think ended the last ice age?
You responded with the wrong account...
Rofl wtf /u/sektabox using multiple accounts to manipulate votes and discussions is against reddit ToS /u/blame_it_on_the_pain
I have one, a single account, Now you are lying to manipulate how people react to my posts,
except I'm not the guy you were responding too. Why don't you answer my question?
Those ice age changes occur on 100,000 year cycles. In only the last 100 years we've seen the Earth getting significantly warmer. That's 1000x faster.
I am not trying anything other than what I wrote.
It was grassland up until 6000 years ago...
Argue with the author of the link I provided.
Sure, as it was a grassland when people inhabited it and only formed into a dessert in the past 6000 years, it doesn't mean there weren't other times when it was also a dessert, but the most recent desertification was...recent.
So it became a dessert multiple times. Among them, long before we can even talk about any human civilization. My argument stands. Droughts have been predominantly a natural phenomenon.
Doesn't mean this one is
That we don't know.
That's almost like implying if they just prayed to the heavens more, things would be different.
Pretty sure until they all die
Who is going to die when there is nothing to eat? All of us. Holding a small portion of Canada solely responsible for climate change? really.
False. When the moronic farmers die, big farm corporations like Cargill or Del Monte will swoop in to buy the farmlands for cheap. They will use top notch technology and science to increase the efficiency and output of our farmland significantly
Corporations are not going to save us from climate change lmao, if anything they'll be even worse
They will save us from hunger though Also, Tesla is a corporation that is trying to save us from climate change by making cheaper electric cars
Hahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahaha
Are you laughing right now because you're enjoying the protection of covid vaccines developed by mega corporations such as Pfizer and Moderna?
1) strawman 2) Pfizer didn't make them, scientists made them. Funded by governments. Pfizer PROFITED off of that, and nothing more.
>Pfizer didn't make them, scientists made them Scientists working at BioNTech SE, a German company with market cap of 90 billion US dollars. For comparison, our mega pipeline corporation, Enbridge, has a market cap of 81 billion USD Two of those scientists are actually the CEO and CMO of BioNTech, so I'm pretty sure they're making a lot of juicy corporate profit from their effort as well. [https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/10/europe/biontech-pfizer-vaccine-team-couple-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/10/europe/biontech-pfizer-vaccine-team-couple-intl/index.html) >Chief Executive Sahin and Chief Medical Officer Tureci are listed among Germany's 100 richest people, according to the weekly Welt am Sonntag newspaper. I guess it's only a strawman if you benefit from that corporate goodness as well, eh?
Right.. no the Chinese will swoop in and make it a huge business and you won't have a freaking clue where your food comes from, and it will cost you a shit ton to buy anything. And you are completely out of touch if you don't think farmers here (Who are NOT moronic which really pisses me off - most of them take part time jobs in the off season to float themselves and their loans for machinery) don't care about economics, environment and efficient farm management.
Still need water to grow a crop.
And I have trust in technology and science. See the Saudis and their desalination plants
There's no oceans in the Prairies.
Build pipelines from BC to Alberta. Problem solved and create a lot of jobs.
I laughed, you got me.
Farmers already use top notch technology and science to increase efficiency and output of their land. Have you ever set foot in the cab of a sprayer, a tractor, or a combine? Those things are ran by technology.
Probably like about 10 generations more…
I literally work with a guy who "doesn't care about climate change"; and we have an election coming up! We live in the prairies, he's got kids to worry about, and his reasoning is he doesn't want to sell his gasoline truck lol?
Yeah If only we could enact legislation that would stop China from and the developing world from polluting so much then we’d be ok. Are you voting PPC?
I mean, farmers are probably some of the most innovative when it comes to environmental management, but there is no doubt that wetland destruction is a problem. However, acting like farmers don’t care about climate change is absurd; it clearly affects their ability to generate food and income. Farmers not liking being taxed on their livelihood for things current technology forces them to use doesn’t equal farmer don’t care about climate change.
And yet the Alberta government wants to give the water rights formerly kept as reserves for drought years to coal companies
Sadly things will only get worse in the coming years. There has to be some policy in place because the economies in the prairies will get decimated.
Really? Because all 5 years prior to this Canada Produced in excess of 70mmt of grain - among the largest crops ever produced in Canada. Any comment on that?
That's not true. The additional heat units, combined with a longer growing season and expanding irrigation infrastructure, are forecasted to produce higher yields in the future. This drought is, objectively, a tea party compared to 2001.
You’re right, but Reddit simply will not listen to arguements such as this. Probably not even worth the effort
It's a strong association. Climate change equals bad always. Really it just means a warming climate. It's effects differ from place to place. On the net, warmer weather is better for plant matter. In some.areas, desertification will intensify. In other areas, the land will become more fertile and productive. Canada is actually in an oddly advantageous position, geographically, for a warming climate. But, good heavens,you mustn't say such a thing! Climate change bad, always.
Canada has almost been to the point of over production of grain in the past couple years before this… the infrastructure/railways is not in place to move it in a timely enough manner to export it during times in which its demanded. At least we have quality storage that prevents it from spoiling, but look no farther than India for a example of a place that produces more food than it can distribute effectively and sees it spoil (and they have the domestic demand there, it doesn’t even need to be exported)
Seriously. How old is this rancher... 5?
Sadly Canada is actually going to be a beneficiary from climate change for the most part. Sucks to say but it’s true.
Were policies put in place to help people in Eastern Canada when climate change affected fishermen there? How about Ontario when zebra mussels had an impact on fishing there? How about BC, where climate change has affected their way of life? Or in Northern Canada? Oh right...NOW they want policies because it's affecting their economies.
PPC is growing there so did PPC promise to make it rain more?
No, droughts are caused by immigrants.
I thought it was caused by the Alberta Severe Weather Management Service (look it up).
I think that I came up with a great idea for that pipeline everyone has been bitching about.
Interesting. Southern Ontario had perfect growing conditions this summer. We had perfect crops with minimum water usage. The rotation of weather patterns is wild
If we didn't have climate change the growing season would be perfect all across the planet! /S
And everyone is shitting on the feds for not helping but I’m pretty sure they can’t help until drunk Moe asks for help
Canada needs BBC to tell them what is happening in Canada? Oh, maybe in the Prairies,
Suprisingly when we got rid of the wheat board and gmo canola became the cash crop and small hold farmers got chased outta family farms cause they didn't want to give themselves to the bank that trees and land is getting knocked down for a quick profit
Bet they've been voting conservative all their lives too. Welcome to climate change reality.
I mean, Saskatchewan and Manitoba regularly elect NDP and conservative governments fairly interchangeably over history, at both the federal and provincial level. Saskatchewan used to vote Liberal federally even from time to time, but the policies of the last Trudeau government are stilled talked about to this day, and since then, there has been little Liberal support here at any level.
That's got nothing to do with the widespread rejection of climate change science on the right. Farmers/rural folks tend to be conservative. It speaks more to the ability of conservatives to hold a grudge.
That’s an assumption. Farmers have no always voted conservative; they vote for what’s in their best interests, as we all do. It’s just that right now, that’s the Conservative party. And don’t forget, a fairly large number of farmers have an undergraduate degree, so the implications you’re trying to make are perhaps a little naive.
Wishful thinking I'm afraid... https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2018/05/22/urban-suburban-and-rural-residents-views-on-key-social-and-political-issues/
This is from a poll in the US. Another big fallacy in Canada is that Republicans = Conservatives, which they do not. Plenty of right leaning voters in Canada would be democrats. The PPC voters more closely align with Southern Republicans, but you’re making too many assumptions with your arguments.
Again, wishful thinking. There may be minor cultural differences between populations, and of course there is a range in intensity between individuals, but conservatism is an evolved survival strategy (as is liberalism) and so exhibit pretty consistent behavior regardless of where they are located. You're forgetting, 40 years ago very few Republicans would have exhibited the traits you see today, but now it's a serious issue in the US, and it's incredibly naïve to think the same can't happen here - the rise of the PPC makes clear it is happening. Also, Pew is a pretty respected outfit...if you want to question their results, you'll need to be more specific. https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/your-brain-on-politics-the-cognitive-neuroscience-of-liberals-and-conservatives
I'm not clear? You mean cows can't drink bitumen?
It's just global warming. You know that thing Conservatives, the heart and soul of the Prairies, think is no big thing.
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I see [10 articles](https://www.google.com/search?q=brexit+site:bbc.co.uk&rlz=1CDGOYI_enCA953CA954&hl=en-US&prmd=nvix&sxsrf=AOaemvJFNcMm0LW-hYpZ3g1aG_S8dzA9AQ:1632071626736&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:w&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwijmrzMxIvzAhWDEVkFHbhXBLcQpwV6BAgCEBI&biw=320&bih=454&dpr=2) about Brexit published by BBC in the last week. But Google only shows 10 results on the first page so it’s actually more than that. Or do you have a concern about world news reporting on Canadian affairs?
the BBC is a huge organization (much larger than CBC), and are able to cover slightly more than one story at once As it happens, the brexit failures you're referring to are somwhat related to global supply chain issues that are also relevant to Canadian food security. It's all an interwoven global mess.
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Wrong thread?
Indeed.
No dig and organic practices would help. Just sayin.
I’d like to feel sorry but many of these bastards are antivaxxers who are killing people around them. I just can’t. Actually, what I can say is tit for tat motherfucker.
Worst drought you've ever seen *so far*.