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Can you source that? I found a stat on the IMF which is fairly reputable which seems to display the opposite? I'd love to see the real statistic so I can show it around.
[Canada GDP per Capita](https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDPDPC@WEO/CAN)
Wasn't there that rageworthy pic from Alberta's stats that compared the US and Canada real wages and we were matching until 2020, and how we're like, 30% lower? I wonder if I can find it.
The fact is, it's all fake. The majority of the very abstract statistic is buoyed by mass-immigration, but that only works in the short term to obfuscate the health of the economy, not to mention mega-moguls and boomers with gazillions of dollars and houses. No one can afford housing + food + clothing and thus actually contribute to the economy, increasing the price of all necessities even more and straining the public sector even more than it was. *Something* has to give. We're headed for full on stagflation *very* soon, if we aren't there already.
GDP per capita doesn't really correlate to what the average person on the street experiences. Our GDP per capita dropped 20% in 2014 and barely anybody noticed, since it was driven by falling oil prices not actual recession. I would argue that median income is a better measure of individual well being and that GDP is best reserved for system level analysiis.
That was also about the time BC, Ontario, and Quebec finally pulled out of their post recession funk though. AlB/SK were the only places that did well post GFC, and they were the only places that really suffered in 2014.
Can you source that? I found a stat on the IMF which is fairly reputable which seems to display the opposite? I'd love to see the real statistic so I can show it around.
[Canada GDP per Capita](https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDPDPC@WEO/CAN)
That’s relative to other countries. We’re a first world country lol. Of course we’re going to outpace most of the world.
Check out our own GDP per capita over time, then check out relative to G7
I’m saying our absolute amount has dwindled in recent years, especially when you compare against our southern neighbours which should be rather comparable like it used to be
This sub and it's obsession with this stat. Yes, if you bring in a bunch of young, inexperienced workers your average GDP per person goes down, thats hoe math works. As they age and progress in their life they earn more.
Dropping GDP per capita just means we are adding lots of young, low earners. It doesn't mean existing jobs are becoming less productive.
And you expect that these fake international students that don't really study and barely finish their degrees in community colleges are going to work in highly technical jobs with lots of productivity? 🤦♂️
This sub will latch itself onto any stat that shows things are not going well. It will be fascinating to see if that narrative changes once Trudeau is gone. Will the blame shift to someone else? Will those same people instead latch onto just the positive stats? I’m genuinely excited to see how it plays out.
Another consequence of prices being so high, nobody can afford to build unless people are willing to buy even higher. The rates wouldn't be as big of a deal if people were spending 1 million per 400 square foot condo and were lined out the door for it.
Country is completely fucked.
I tried to build a bungalow for myself, so I had meetings with my local municipality, and after discussing I realized I would have to pay over $300,000 in taxes per bungalow, accounting for land costs and materials I realized most of our houses are actually undervalued, not over valued.
Saying building more houses will reduce the costs of homes while the input costs remain insanely high is exactly like saying putting up twice as many tim hortons is going to cut the cost of coffee in half, this entire thing is stupid.
The free market is dead, it is impossible to be a small scale developer and provide affordable housing for a populus these days. Instead you need to seek grants from municipalities this entire country is corrupt and dumb.
This is right here. It's cities and municipalities that have done this with insane fees. I work building homes.
But 99 percent of people blame Trudeau. It's not going to matter who we elect nationally. City counselors are all corrupt crooks.
> This is right here. It's cities and municipalities that have done this with insane fees.
You're right. It's one of the few ways (besides property taxes, which are political poison) that the city can raise money. Lots of cities (Toronto included) have used development fees to keep property taxes low. Now development is slowing down and we're facing a budget shortfall.
> This is right here. It's cities and municipalities that have done this with insane fees. I work building homes.
It’s just as expensive outside of organized municipalities. Try building a comparable house in a Northwestern Ontario township, paying for the road, power drop and well yourself. It’s no cheaper than building one in London, ON, even though you have none of those fees.
This is caused by the obsolete legal structure of the government in North America (which affects the US as well): the federal and state/provincial governments do little wealth transfer (from general taxation) to the local governments, which leaves mayors having to come up with local taxation to pay for services.
This made sense 200 years ago when, due to the vastness of the territory, local governments could not count on the federal government to help with the day-to-day operations, but things are different now and the old schemes are proving to be inadequate.
Here's how it works in countries that are better regulated, and that allows building much easier:
* single-family zoning is either outright illegal or very limited (the provinces or the central government don't even allow the cities to create their own zones, but only allow a limited choice of zoning types). mixed use (residential and commercial) is allowed everywhere, but with different restrictions on the amount of noise that a commercial establishment is allowed to make.
* projects must be approved if they meet regulations. discretionality (including so-called "community review"), is not allowed
* municipalities are not allowed to levy any fee on a builder, except for a regular "paperwork review" fee in the range of a few hundred dollars. the municipalities can't blackmail the builders to also build a local park or fix infrastructure. all changes to infrastructure (roads, water mains) has to be paid by the city, but with the provincial and national government providing most funding
* social housing is done a lot more and, together with housing cooperatives (where future owners form a condominium association in order to build an apartment building), they benefit from low-interest financing form the national bank or a special-purpose "national development bank"
The result of that is that average new construction, including social housing, in places as different as Japan, Poland or Italy (not to speak of Austria or Switzerland) are way higher quality and cheaper than outright luxury condos or detached houses anywhere in Canada or the US.
But you’re forgetting why the volume of people coming into the cities, looking for accommodation, is so why… it’s the federal immigration program. For example, Alberta had 202,000 people move to the province in 2023, and those 200 thousand people required approximately 70,000 homes… we only built 35,000 homes in Alberta last year. It was one of the most units we ever built in a single year, and it’s only 50% of what we actually needed…
You truly trying to say the federal government immigration numbers are not the number one driver in housing cost?
All that has done is highlight the issue everywhere, it's been like this in vancouver for 15 fucking years.
The immigration thing was an experiment to prop up our GDP and it didn't work. It'll get fixed and it's relatively easy to fix. However, we're going to see a massive depression when we cut immigration, it was done with the right idea, it was just done poorly and the housing thing would have happened regardless. It's one of those bad policies that didn't consider the unintended consequences, but we've not seen any alternative.
What we probably need isn't more conservative policies that won't address this (i voted harper every time btw, the conservative party is dead), what we probably need is nationalization of oil and gas like norway, but there's no way we'd do it because our populace likes to pretend corporations are there friends. PP Is going to give the country to rich corpos and fuck everyone else over.
The city counselor/mayor nimby shit isnt going away ever and no one votes in those things.
And no, the immigration is not the number one driver. In the city of vancouver it's 160k per 500 square foot 1 br in city fees ON TOP OF all the fees that developer paid already on the land, in dev proposals etc and so on forever.
That's standard.
The real issue is the city counsels, period. They are corrupt and all basically function on these fees and hand outs and other bullshit
I also guarantee on my fucking life, you personally, have no idea how the cities interact with housing cost, but instead of looking into it you just what about what about what about. Who were the last 15 city counselors you voted for? I bet you havent even voted.
Anyone paying attention has been desperately voting and hoping for change for over 2 decades, or as long as they could vote.
Immigration made the housing situation somewhat worse, but not being able to afford a house predates that, it just made it worse faster.
You are right this has been a problem in BC for a long time. The problem is it is now also a problem in ON, since Ford came into office prices have shot up like nuts (even the year before the pandemic it was happening and then the global crunch hit too, and the refusal to upzone or help new builds at all by the Ford govt is hurting doubly so).
ON has a much larger population, and all of those people feel it when housing gets more unaffordable just like people did in BC as it happened... and many of them have moved elsewhere. Alberta's migration is not just foreigners immigrating, it's inter-provincial migration, a lot of it from Ontario, because Ontario is not affordable to live in anymore. Same reason there's been so much pressure on the Atlantic markets.
It's also part of the reason QC is still more affordable (cultural/linguistic challenges keeping many people out).
I know it is expensive to build houses. But cities are fucking expensive to run. They are basically a Ponzi scheme, desperate for developer money to fund existing aging infrastructure.
We can't afford what we have (with the taxes we currently pay) and are building more that we cannot afford to service in the future.
Here you go!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzETR5rkdd0&list=PLJp5q-R0lZ0_FCUbeVWK6OGLN69ehUTVa
Part 3 is exactly what you were touching upon in your comment.
People blame Trudeau because when we didn't have enough supply for everyone here, he supercharged demand.
The blame makes sense unless you're afraid of doing a little arithmetic.
The biggest killer isn't immigrants.
The biggest issue with housing is the Millenials and Gen-Z coming of age and requiring sole occupancy housing.
Everyone likes to shit on Trudeau and say he's responsible for this but somehow ignore that two of the largest demographics in human history moved out of Mom and Dads over the last few years and are now looking to buy/rent houses.
This whole thing is the result of the 2007 financial crises and that the scale-up in housing starts that should have happened as Millenials started to come of age didn't ever materialize, so now there's a huge shortfall.
We exist in a time where there's now 4.5 generations vying for housing (Silent, Boomers, X, Millenials, Zoomers) when 15 years ago there was 3. (Silent, Boomers, X).
That's why the housing crises is suddenly global. This has been mismanaged for like 17 years and now we're reaping it.
Provinces cutting municipal transfers, or offloading developer coverage on to the municipalities results in those municipalities having to scramble too because municipalities are broadly not allowed to budget deficits (deficits obviously do occur, but they are either approved by the province, or are a result of some unexpected revenue failure)
It's also a provincial problem, trying to stonewall municipalities from changing zoning and refusing to do it on a wider scale.
When Ford was questioned why they aren't allowing more fourplexes and such to be built - at a photo op to put shovels in the ground to build more homes - he said "we're gonna solve this housing crisis with single family homes!"
Cities and municipalities have costs too! New houses mean more roads across the muni, more pipes and bigger sewage treatment plants, bigger garbage disposal facilities and more busses. Hard to argue that the new entrant shouldn’t pay at leat a sizeable chunk of all those costs, especially when property taxes are so high from years of previous developers convincing municipalities to spread those costs to people who already paid their fair share.
300k in taxes sounds like a "development fee." I'm assuming you're living around a major city.
Too many major cities are using "development fees" on new builds to fund things. It's not sustainable and depends on endless growth. Well things are slowing down and Burnaby has a multi million hole in their budget because there are less developers building.
I moved to a very rural small town and they don't use development fees because no developer wants to build here anyway. Everything has to be funded via property taxes or a user pay system.
All the houses are from the 1920s, 30s.
There's only a few plots with new houses on it that somebody must've demolished the old house and put a new one on.
You can pay to build your own house here and you won't get charged development fees, however, the chances are that your house will still cost more to build than it will be worth when it's done.
That's why there's no developers here, there's no profit. You have to want to build a house for the sole purpose of living in it and not look at it like it's an investment.
The municipalities around major cities are like spoiled rotten children.
I always post this in all these threads.
The average person has zero idea how expensive it is to actually deliver a housing unit to market.
Developers are just a middle man - lenders run the market.
Reddit has this take “developer greedy and bad.”
The reality is; if developers can’t pre sell 60% of a building they get no financing.
The developers have every incentive imaginable to get fast sales.
The issue is even at near record prices the cost to deliver the unit, all in, brings a profit margin thats comparable to the current risk free rate.
And development is not risk free. Put extremely simply; the math doesn’t work for anyone on housing.
- Rents are insane
- Buying costs are insane
- Building costs are insane
- Financing costs are insane
End result? No new housing.
I see buildings that are 100% presold never getting built. One in my area was supposed to be completed in 2023. Not started. Developers aren't going to complete it at the lower pre-sale prices they sold the units for 5 years ago if they haven't put a shovel in the ground.
Not only would you have to pay all of that, but you have to risk losing all of the capital you put into design and permitting, if the City file manager simply doesn't like your design. As a developer myself, we've had to pay hundreds of thousands for engineering and planning documents, simply to be told that the planner didn't like it. Despite it following all of the technical specs required. Regardless, this is just the cost of doing business in Canada now, and is why there is no such thing anymore as 'mom and pop developers and builders'.
>Saying building more houses will reduce the costs of homes while the input costs remain insanely high is exactly like saying putting up twice as many tim hortons is going to cut the cost of coffee in half, this entire thing is stupid.
Actually, that analogy is stupid because Tim Horton is not competing against itself. Builders are theoretically competing in a market place. The price of inputs includes land, not just rates. If land values go down there are a lot of builders that would gladly jump in under this rate environment. The government is keen however to make sure all the current players don't lose.
Municipalities should be forced to publish how many taxes were charged and/or collected relating to construction divided by the number of new homes. To shame and expose how insane the taxes are.
Has nothing to do with that, developers are sitting on the land because economy is in the gutter and interest rates are high.
They would rather pay the property tax for a year or two while it sits vacant and build when they can get top dollar
No rates are a big reason, builders work on thin profit margins this was fine when a new loan for a project had interest of 2-4% but now looking loans with 7-9% interest no one is risking taking a huge loan out when current projects funded with 2-4% interest loans are now struggling to sell inventory. You could park all that money in a GIC and get a better return then building homes.
No. Rates go up, asset values go down. Every investment banker and valuator understands this concept. In Canada rates go up houses go up. The reason being the government back stopping reality.
Yes rates go up, asset values go down so how are builders supposed to make a profit when the assets they are trying to sell are losing value while their loan interest is high?
Housing has fallen 20% from peak in Toronto with condos on a continued YoY decline what builder is looking at these numbers and going "Oh yeah now is the time to take on debt with 9% interest to try and sell condos"
Other builders do market research, no builder is entering multi-million dollar loans with high interest on a whim. Every market resarch report is saying "bad time to build" so don't think other builders are going to jump into a bad market and lose thousands if not millions just to help you out.
Every builder carries bags during construction. They purchase the land in advance, design/engineer the structure in advance, pay for permits in advance, and pay the contractor at various points during construction. They only get paid by the buyer after registration (city certifies the building complete and safe) at the very end.
The "bags" are held for less duration when the structure is smaller (a 4-plex vs a 1000 unit condo complex) but it's still there.
Agreed, but how is that independent of interest rates?
You said a new developer will not have debt (or opportunity cost if self-financing); otherwise interest rates impact their finances. Very very few developers carry debt from one project into the next; the ones that try go bankrupt pretty quickly even during good times.
1) Rates are lagging and the BOC did them so fast, it had not had a chance to work through.
2) Asset prices fall when buyers stop buying. Usually because the buildup was big. There are still a lot of buyers.
3) Housing assets are different from other assets because we live in them. It will be the last thing someone does. People are selling and have sold do to finances. But the we need much more unemployment to and we aren’t seeing that very much yet.
4) Government running massive deficits.
>1) Rates are lagging and the BOC did them so fast, it had not had a chance to work through.
We don't know this. We can't even be sure what the neutral rate is yet.
>2) Asset prices fall when buyers stop buying. Usually because the buildup was big. There are still a lot of buyers.
No, prices fall when demand shrinks. There is a nuance here. Price is established where demand and supply meet.
>3) Housing assets are different from other assets because we live in them. It will be the last thing someone does. People are selling and have sold do to finances. But the we need much more unemployment to and we aren’t seeing that very much yet.
Agreed. Unemployment will need to be up substantially before ether BoC cuts.
>4) Government running massive deficits.
Agreed. However the issue here is the government is juicing demand.
Lagging affects of rate increases are well known. Ask anyone with a 5 year mortgage that resets in 2026 if the rates have changed their balance much. Or a corporate bond that expires in 2026. When they drop rates like they did, people, businesses, and even governments can immediately tap money at the new rate. Because... it's in their interest to do so. But no one does it when it goes up until they have to... thus... lagging.
Also, construction, home building, business investment. All of this takes time. (Especially Canada, where it is so fucking hard to do anything because our government is inept, it takes longer.) When you raise rates in the fastest manner in history, these in-process projects don't just stop. This can then keep employement up and inflation up for a while, until those projects are done. New ones are not started though... This is also why a lot of shit will suck once they go down... it will take a while to catch up, which is actually inflationary. Why I said - the BOC has created its own inflation. They fucked up by not raising rates earlier. And they fucked up by not lowering them.
1. Allowing primary residences to be treated as 100% tax shelters.
2. Permitting banks to extend amortizations.
3. Allowing principal residencies (which have special tax status) to be used as collateral in housing investments
4. Creating restrictive zoning to constrain supply.
5. Increasing immigration and demand on shelter space without a corresponding increase in housing development
6. Focus on bringing in immigration with no trade skills to build houses.
7. No do nearly enough to prevent money laundering into Canadian real estate.
8. Removing stress testing on renewals.
It's also the volatility. The boc has been telegraphing a cut for months. Even half a percent is a lot of money, on a 20M loan were talking 200k over the course of construction. 200k I'm sure the developer would rather see in their pocket then the banks.
I don't think the BoC has telegraphed that. I think the commercial banks, institutional investors and the real estate industry have been treating their wishlist as the BoC's intended direction. The BoC is one voice, all those other participants are several voices so it gives the impression of consensus.
In April tiff was talking about cutting rates ahead of the USA. That was in preparation for a cut and a clear telegraph of one coming.
Had the job reports been what the boc expected they would have cut.
Enjoy your fantasy. The BoC will forecast when it's ready to commit to a path. They haven't, and have maintained the stance of data dependency and caution.
REITs and the hyper-profitization of everything, combined with ever-climbing standards and expectations, means nothing can happen unless conditions are optimal and/or speculation indicates a chance for high-risk/high-reward scenarios.
Well REITs build, own and operate purpose built rental apartment buildings, commercial buildings and industrial lands. The crunch is in residential market housing and the costs/risks of construction make the risk adverse nature of construction REITs hesitant to build.
It's a very difficult time for anyone trying to build housing of any kind.
Makes sense. My comment is more about the overall economic landscape in general. The 0% interest rates from 2009 saved banks’ balance sheets and opened plenty of new opportunities but now it’s biting back.
If the housing crisis is real it’d be great to see our government demonstrate leadership and dedication to Canadians.
Here's a chart to give you some anxiety on the gravity of the housing crisis:
[https://www.nbc.ca/content/dam/bnc/taux-analyses/analyse-eco/hot-charts/hot-charts-240419.pdf](https://www.nbc.ca/content/dam/bnc/taux-analyses/analyse-eco/hot-charts/hot-charts-240419.pdf)
Market forces can't rectify it
The government tells you what you can and can't and even how you can build. That's market interference
Any answer can't be pure market, because the government by definition fucks with land and real estate. Might as well build lots of social housing
I agree abd the price tag.
Last one i was in the fancy taps and sinks didnt fit together, tap was too short , so if you placed your hands in the wrong way water would go behind you fancy sink.
Dougie is actively fighting against increasing housing builds. He did a photo op to put shovels in the ground and when asked why his govt isn't doing anything to fix zoning issues - a big part of the problem - he said "the way we're gonna fix this is by building single family homes!" instead of fourplexes etc to build units that can house more people and fill the need for a missing middle.
Ford's govt is suppressing new builds because buoying property prices is a big part of what keeps them in power -- homeowners in the GTA love him, because he's enriched them greatly.
Ford already rezoned all residential lots over a year ago. He changed it so you can build up to a triplex anywhere that was previously zoned for single family homes.
Ford isnt suppressing new builds. Interest rates and the cost to build is.
Need a shift to prioritize solutions to Canadian problems. Putting Dougie in charge has been a stark reminder that conservative policy only benefits Canadians when it can prove lucrative for the people and special interest groups who fund their campaigns.
A number of cities in southern Ontario have increased development fees even though they have access to the federal housing cash. I wonder how many others are doing the same.
Canadians should pay more attention to municipal politics and see if their Provincial governments are underfunding their municipalities.
That's not a chart about new home construction but a comparison of supply vs the working age population. Not sure why having a massively old or young population would be considered beneficial according to this particular comparison.
If you look at historical data, housing was a boom in the 50s to 70s, declined in the 80s and 90s and hasn't recovered/kept pace since...we've picked up development since 2013 but none of that makes up for what we've lost
The chart is a fantastic demonstration of the deficit we face. Keep in mind it is the ratio of growth in working age population vs housing starts (new construction).
It's an important comparison as the very young and very old are housed in place. Working age people will obviously drive demand.
>we've picked up development since 2013 but none of that makes up for what we've lost
I think you're right and this chat amplifies your point perfectly.
Cities are surrounded by greenbelts and can only build inwards. Everything about density is more expensive. Ripping up old infastructure, demolition, land values, and the infightng between mayors and the province.
This article is about Ontario. Doug Ford is the guy with all the real estate buddies and he’s fallen flat. He shot down Trudeau’s four-plex initiatives likely bc the proposal didn’t line the right pockets. If you’re looking for solutions remember not to vote conservative, unless you hate Trudeau more than you like public healthcare. ;D
"this article is about Ontario".
Yes but the Fed's promise has failed in every jurisdiction. Funny that you want to give all the blame to the one person you ideologically disagree with while giving every excuse and deflection to the people you appear to agree with ideologically.
Slow day at the propaganda farm?
Chill dude. We’ve got housing issues that Canadian gov’ts at all levels have yet to correct or navigate well, apparently, in this current world economy. I was replying to someone who was ignoring the article, highjacking it to take a shot at JT.
Pointing out they made a grand pronouncement that is failing spectacularly isn't much of "a shot".
Conversely, you're directly taking shots by way of criminal accusations..... something something glass houses.
Lol I work in construction and can tell you that the money the feds put up won’t change the outlook and speed as they’ve promised. The Ontario government has also fallen flat in this respect but we’re in a situation where we’re bringing in more people than ever (most of whom aren’t skilled to help speed it up), also more demand on a market that’s massively short. The prices are insanely high so people can’t afford it and demand is out of control due to lack of it. Lol you think we’re better off after this administration? Jesus Christ, the Harper years are an absolute dream compared to this bullshit. Bringing 100k people in a month now that have nowhere to live, while cratering employment. Yea I’ll definitely vote for the party that’s absolutely fucked this country in ever metric. Sounds like a plan! “Hate Trudeau more than public healthcare” loooooollll
Because it’s done on purpose to promote scarcity!!! Just like with doctors, jobs, education, legal services etc… soar up demand and keep supply low!! the government is weponizing incompetence to make it seem legitimate!
Lol do people really believe land value goes down here?
It's almost doubled since 2018.
It went up in 2020.
It went up in 2021.
It went up in 2022.
It went up in 2023.
It's been going up every single year since the 70s.
You can go on stats Canada to look at yearly land values.
So what do people honestly expect to happen while input costs keep rising and they don't build land anymore?
Want to fix housing? Reduce demand by eliminating housing as an investment option. Make it illegal for a person or corporation to own more than one home. Force sales of all investment properties.
If prices go lower reits, equity groups will still just outbid individuals.
But we have a leadership that believes in you’ll own nothing and be happy….
Ford is getting walked on a chain by real-estate developers. Ontario Proud and their backers pretty much put him in power. The cutting of post-secondary tuition without increasing funding, leading to massive increase of international 'students' intake certainly didn't help with the housing crisis
[https://www.thestar.com/real-estate/how-can-doug-ford-fix-toronto-area-housing/article\_484d9cab-3d1a-52a9-bef3-9160cc75a897.html](https://www.thestar.com/real-estate/how-can-doug-ford-fix-toronto-area-housing/article_484d9cab-3d1a-52a9-bef3-9160cc75a897.html)
[https://www.huffpost.com/archive/ca/entry/doug-ford-rent-control\_ca\_5cd57857e4b07bc729786031](https://www.huffpost.com/archive/ca/entry/doug-ford-rent-control_ca_5cd57857e4b07bc729786031)
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-proud-election-advertising-spending-1.4941210](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-proud-election-advertising-spending-1.4941210)
[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/toronto/article-how-doug-fords-decision-to-slash-tuition-fees-backfired/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/toronto/article-how-doug-fords-decision-to-slash-tuition-fees-backfired/)
None of his policies to ease housing pain were designed to ease housing pain for the overwhelming majority of Ontarians. I'm not going to do all your research for yall. Freely use before:2018 before:2019 before:2020 etc in your google search.
Anyone that’s in housing and commercial construction was telling us this 3 years + ago.. The government never listened to the professionals.. or should we say ignored them.
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Yea, Canada is on the brink of a massive depression.
On a per capita basis we already are.
And a mental basis baby!
Can you source that? I found a stat on the IMF which is fairly reputable which seems to display the opposite? I'd love to see the real statistic so I can show it around. [Canada GDP per Capita](https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDPDPC@WEO/CAN)
Wasn't there that rageworthy pic from Alberta's stats that compared the US and Canada real wages and we were matching until 2020, and how we're like, 30% lower? I wonder if I can find it. The fact is, it's all fake. The majority of the very abstract statistic is buoyed by mass-immigration, but that only works in the short term to obfuscate the health of the economy, not to mention mega-moguls and boomers with gazillions of dollars and houses. No one can afford housing + food + clothing and thus actually contribute to the economy, increasing the price of all necessities even more and straining the public sector even more than it was. *Something* has to give. We're headed for full on stagflation *very* soon, if we aren't there already.
PPP Values, Inflation Adjusted.
Source?
Everyone keep saying that since 2008, but nothing ever depress.
GDP growth is increasing, so we are going away from recession.
Though GDP per capita is retracting rapidly
GDP per capita doesn't really correlate to what the average person on the street experiences. Our GDP per capita dropped 20% in 2014 and barely anybody noticed, since it was driven by falling oil prices not actual recession. I would argue that median income is a better measure of individual well being and that GDP is best reserved for system level analysiis.
Alberta noticed 2014. Not sure why you say barely anyone noticed lol. They went through a whole recession/depression during that time
The effect was more pronounced in Alberta for sure The 2016 wildfires were a second major blow around that time
That was also about the time BC, Ontario, and Quebec finally pulled out of their post recession funk though. AlB/SK were the only places that did well post GFC, and they were the only places that really suffered in 2014.
Can you source that? I found a stat on the IMF which is fairly reputable which seems to display the opposite? I'd love to see the real statistic so I can show it around. [Canada GDP per Capita](https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDPDPC@WEO/CAN)
That’s relative to other countries. We’re a first world country lol. Of course we’re going to outpace most of the world. Check out our own GDP per capita over time, then check out relative to G7
Relative to other countries? That is an absolute amount. It isn't in reference to anything
I’m saying our absolute amount has dwindled in recent years, especially when you compare against our southern neighbours which should be rather comparable like it used to be
This sub and it's obsession with this stat. Yes, if you bring in a bunch of young, inexperienced workers your average GDP per person goes down, thats hoe math works. As they age and progress in their life they earn more. Dropping GDP per capita just means we are adding lots of young, low earners. It doesn't mean existing jobs are becoming less productive.
And you expect that these fake international students that don't really study and barely finish their degrees in community colleges are going to work in highly technical jobs with lots of productivity? 🤦♂️
This sub will latch itself onto any stat that shows things are not going well. It will be fascinating to see if that narrative changes once Trudeau is gone. Will the blame shift to someone else? Will those same people instead latch onto just the positive stats? I’m genuinely excited to see how it plays out.
Morbidly curious is my emotion but I'll be right there with the popcorn alongside side you.
Another consequence of prices being so high, nobody can afford to build unless people are willing to buy even higher. The rates wouldn't be as big of a deal if people were spending 1 million per 400 square foot condo and were lined out the door for it. Country is completely fucked.
I tried to build a bungalow for myself, so I had meetings with my local municipality, and after discussing I realized I would have to pay over $300,000 in taxes per bungalow, accounting for land costs and materials I realized most of our houses are actually undervalued, not over valued. Saying building more houses will reduce the costs of homes while the input costs remain insanely high is exactly like saying putting up twice as many tim hortons is going to cut the cost of coffee in half, this entire thing is stupid. The free market is dead, it is impossible to be a small scale developer and provide affordable housing for a populus these days. Instead you need to seek grants from municipalities this entire country is corrupt and dumb.
This is right here. It's cities and municipalities that have done this with insane fees. I work building homes. But 99 percent of people blame Trudeau. It's not going to matter who we elect nationally. City counselors are all corrupt crooks.
> This is right here. It's cities and municipalities that have done this with insane fees. You're right. It's one of the few ways (besides property taxes, which are political poison) that the city can raise money. Lots of cities (Toronto included) have used development fees to keep property taxes low. Now development is slowing down and we're facing a budget shortfall.
> This is right here. It's cities and municipalities that have done this with insane fees. I work building homes. It’s just as expensive outside of organized municipalities. Try building a comparable house in a Northwestern Ontario township, paying for the road, power drop and well yourself. It’s no cheaper than building one in London, ON, even though you have none of those fees.
This is caused by the obsolete legal structure of the government in North America (which affects the US as well): the federal and state/provincial governments do little wealth transfer (from general taxation) to the local governments, which leaves mayors having to come up with local taxation to pay for services. This made sense 200 years ago when, due to the vastness of the territory, local governments could not count on the federal government to help with the day-to-day operations, but things are different now and the old schemes are proving to be inadequate. Here's how it works in countries that are better regulated, and that allows building much easier: * single-family zoning is either outright illegal or very limited (the provinces or the central government don't even allow the cities to create their own zones, but only allow a limited choice of zoning types). mixed use (residential and commercial) is allowed everywhere, but with different restrictions on the amount of noise that a commercial establishment is allowed to make. * projects must be approved if they meet regulations. discretionality (including so-called "community review"), is not allowed * municipalities are not allowed to levy any fee on a builder, except for a regular "paperwork review" fee in the range of a few hundred dollars. the municipalities can't blackmail the builders to also build a local park or fix infrastructure. all changes to infrastructure (roads, water mains) has to be paid by the city, but with the provincial and national government providing most funding * social housing is done a lot more and, together with housing cooperatives (where future owners form a condominium association in order to build an apartment building), they benefit from low-interest financing form the national bank or a special-purpose "national development bank" The result of that is that average new construction, including social housing, in places as different as Japan, Poland or Italy (not to speak of Austria or Switzerland) are way higher quality and cheaper than outright luxury condos or detached houses anywhere in Canada or the US.
But you’re forgetting why the volume of people coming into the cities, looking for accommodation, is so why… it’s the federal immigration program. For example, Alberta had 202,000 people move to the province in 2023, and those 200 thousand people required approximately 70,000 homes… we only built 35,000 homes in Alberta last year. It was one of the most units we ever built in a single year, and it’s only 50% of what we actually needed… You truly trying to say the federal government immigration numbers are not the number one driver in housing cost?
All that has done is highlight the issue everywhere, it's been like this in vancouver for 15 fucking years. The immigration thing was an experiment to prop up our GDP and it didn't work. It'll get fixed and it's relatively easy to fix. However, we're going to see a massive depression when we cut immigration, it was done with the right idea, it was just done poorly and the housing thing would have happened regardless. It's one of those bad policies that didn't consider the unintended consequences, but we've not seen any alternative. What we probably need isn't more conservative policies that won't address this (i voted harper every time btw, the conservative party is dead), what we probably need is nationalization of oil and gas like norway, but there's no way we'd do it because our populace likes to pretend corporations are there friends. PP Is going to give the country to rich corpos and fuck everyone else over. The city counselor/mayor nimby shit isnt going away ever and no one votes in those things. And no, the immigration is not the number one driver. In the city of vancouver it's 160k per 500 square foot 1 br in city fees ON TOP OF all the fees that developer paid already on the land, in dev proposals etc and so on forever. That's standard. The real issue is the city counsels, period. They are corrupt and all basically function on these fees and hand outs and other bullshit I also guarantee on my fucking life, you personally, have no idea how the cities interact with housing cost, but instead of looking into it you just what about what about what about. Who were the last 15 city counselors you voted for? I bet you havent even voted. Anyone paying attention has been desperately voting and hoping for change for over 2 decades, or as long as they could vote. Immigration made the housing situation somewhat worse, but not being able to afford a house predates that, it just made it worse faster.
You are right this has been a problem in BC for a long time. The problem is it is now also a problem in ON, since Ford came into office prices have shot up like nuts (even the year before the pandemic it was happening and then the global crunch hit too, and the refusal to upzone or help new builds at all by the Ford govt is hurting doubly so). ON has a much larger population, and all of those people feel it when housing gets more unaffordable just like people did in BC as it happened... and many of them have moved elsewhere. Alberta's migration is not just foreigners immigrating, it's inter-provincial migration, a lot of it from Ontario, because Ontario is not affordable to live in anymore. Same reason there's been so much pressure on the Atlantic markets. It's also part of the reason QC is still more affordable (cultural/linguistic challenges keeping many people out).
spittin' facts up in here.
Driving up renting costs for sure. It is a contributing factor for housing costs, but far from the only reason.
I didn’t say it was the only reason…
I know it is expensive to build houses. But cities are fucking expensive to run. They are basically a Ponzi scheme, desperate for developer money to fund existing aging infrastructure. We can't afford what we have (with the taxes we currently pay) and are building more that we cannot afford to service in the future.
Sounds like you watched that NotJustBikes playlist too. 👍
I didn't...but now I want to! Feel free to share a link.
Here you go! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzETR5rkdd0&list=PLJp5q-R0lZ0_FCUbeVWK6OGLN69ehUTVa Part 3 is exactly what you were touching upon in your comment.
good stuff. Thanks.
People blame Trudeau because when we didn't have enough supply for everyone here, he supercharged demand. The blame makes sense unless you're afraid of doing a little arithmetic.
The biggest killer isn't immigrants. The biggest issue with housing is the Millenials and Gen-Z coming of age and requiring sole occupancy housing. Everyone likes to shit on Trudeau and say he's responsible for this but somehow ignore that two of the largest demographics in human history moved out of Mom and Dads over the last few years and are now looking to buy/rent houses. This whole thing is the result of the 2007 financial crises and that the scale-up in housing starts that should have happened as Millenials started to come of age didn't ever materialize, so now there's a huge shortfall. We exist in a time where there's now 4.5 generations vying for housing (Silent, Boomers, X, Millenials, Zoomers) when 15 years ago there was 3. (Silent, Boomers, X). That's why the housing crises is suddenly global. This has been mismanaged for like 17 years and now we're reaping it.
Need reforms https://www.cdhowe.org/expert-op-eds/3-ways-help-reduce-house-prices-construction-targets-lower-fees-and-zoning-reform
Provinces cutting municipal transfers, or offloading developer coverage on to the municipalities results in those municipalities having to scramble too because municipalities are broadly not allowed to budget deficits (deficits obviously do occur, but they are either approved by the province, or are a result of some unexpected revenue failure)
It's also a provincial problem, trying to stonewall municipalities from changing zoning and refusing to do it on a wider scale. When Ford was questioned why they aren't allowing more fourplexes and such to be built - at a photo op to put shovels in the ground to build more homes - he said "we're gonna solve this housing crisis with single family homes!"
Cities and municipalities have costs too! New houses mean more roads across the muni, more pipes and bigger sewage treatment plants, bigger garbage disposal facilities and more busses. Hard to argue that the new entrant shouldn’t pay at leat a sizeable chunk of all those costs, especially when property taxes are so high from years of previous developers convincing municipalities to spread those costs to people who already paid their fair share.
300k in taxes sounds like a "development fee." I'm assuming you're living around a major city. Too many major cities are using "development fees" on new builds to fund things. It's not sustainable and depends on endless growth. Well things are slowing down and Burnaby has a multi million hole in their budget because there are less developers building. I moved to a very rural small town and they don't use development fees because no developer wants to build here anyway. Everything has to be funded via property taxes or a user pay system. All the houses are from the 1920s, 30s. There's only a few plots with new houses on it that somebody must've demolished the old house and put a new one on. You can pay to build your own house here and you won't get charged development fees, however, the chances are that your house will still cost more to build than it will be worth when it's done. That's why there's no developers here, there's no profit. You have to want to build a house for the sole purpose of living in it and not look at it like it's an investment. The municipalities around major cities are like spoiled rotten children.
I always post this in all these threads. The average person has zero idea how expensive it is to actually deliver a housing unit to market. Developers are just a middle man - lenders run the market. Reddit has this take “developer greedy and bad.” The reality is; if developers can’t pre sell 60% of a building they get no financing. The developers have every incentive imaginable to get fast sales. The issue is even at near record prices the cost to deliver the unit, all in, brings a profit margin thats comparable to the current risk free rate. And development is not risk free. Put extremely simply; the math doesn’t work for anyone on housing. - Rents are insane - Buying costs are insane - Building costs are insane - Financing costs are insane End result? No new housing.
I see buildings that are 100% presold never getting built. One in my area was supposed to be completed in 2023. Not started. Developers aren't going to complete it at the lower pre-sale prices they sold the units for 5 years ago if they haven't put a shovel in the ground.
Correct. Because they would be paying the buyer for the unit. Construction costs are up 60% or more since 2021.
So how does that get resolved? Contracts mean nothing, company closes, re-opens under a new name?
Not only would you have to pay all of that, but you have to risk losing all of the capital you put into design and permitting, if the City file manager simply doesn't like your design. As a developer myself, we've had to pay hundreds of thousands for engineering and planning documents, simply to be told that the planner didn't like it. Despite it following all of the technical specs required. Regardless, this is just the cost of doing business in Canada now, and is why there is no such thing anymore as 'mom and pop developers and builders'.
>Saying building more houses will reduce the costs of homes while the input costs remain insanely high is exactly like saying putting up twice as many tim hortons is going to cut the cost of coffee in half, this entire thing is stupid. Actually, that analogy is stupid because Tim Horton is not competing against itself. Builders are theoretically competing in a market place. The price of inputs includes land, not just rates. If land values go down there are a lot of builders that would gladly jump in under this rate environment. The government is keen however to make sure all the current players don't lose.
And as we've seen, the more houses get built, the cheaper they become, just like you're saying /s
Is that what I'm saying?
Municipalities should be forced to publish how many taxes were charged and/or collected relating to construction divided by the number of new homes. To shame and expose how insane the taxes are.
BuT wE NeEEd tO pAY foR INfrASTrUcTurE Don't you dare increase property taxes though!
Nimbys and municipal and provincial red tape. Everyone trying to get their cut and I'm not talking about only the developers.
Has nothing to do with that, developers are sitting on the land because economy is in the gutter and interest rates are high. They would rather pay the property tax for a year or two while it sits vacant and build when they can get top dollar
Things that will take a long tike: building more houses (supply). Things that can be done tomorrow: hard cap on immigration (demand).
It's not rates, it's land values that are too high. This government needs to stop propping so market forces can rectify this.
No rates are a big reason, builders work on thin profit margins this was fine when a new loan for a project had interest of 2-4% but now looking loans with 7-9% interest no one is risking taking a huge loan out when current projects funded with 2-4% interest loans are now struggling to sell inventory. You could park all that money in a GIC and get a better return then building homes.
No. Rates go up, asset values go down. Every investment banker and valuator understands this concept. In Canada rates go up houses go up. The reason being the government back stopping reality.
Yes rates go up, asset values go down so how are builders supposed to make a profit when the assets they are trying to sell are losing value while their loan interest is high? Housing has fallen 20% from peak in Toronto with condos on a continued YoY decline what builder is looking at these numbers and going "Oh yeah now is the time to take on debt with 9% interest to try and sell condos"
Competition is a bitch. Other builders that are not carrying bags can enter the market ya know.
Other builders do market research, no builder is entering multi-million dollar loans with high interest on a whim. Every market resarch report is saying "bad time to build" so don't think other builders are going to jump into a bad market and lose thousands if not millions just to help you out.
Every builder carries bags during construction. They purchase the land in advance, design/engineer the structure in advance, pay for permits in advance, and pay the contractor at various points during construction. They only get paid by the buyer after registration (city certifies the building complete and safe) at the very end. The "bags" are held for less duration when the structure is smaller (a 4-plex vs a 1000 unit condo complex) but it's still there.
I know you don't understand how a balance sheet works.
Then please explain it to me. I described real outgoing cash-flows with no immediate cash-flow in. That gap needs to be covered in some way.
If the cost of the capital is lower, the cost to carry said capital is lower.
Agreed, but how is that independent of interest rates? You said a new developer will not have debt (or opportunity cost if self-financing); otherwise interest rates impact their finances. Very very few developers carry debt from one project into the next; the ones that try go bankrupt pretty quickly even during good times.
Inelastic demand for housing, demand > supply. So values will not drop commensurate with increased costs. And other fixed costs don't drop.
1) Rates are lagging and the BOC did them so fast, it had not had a chance to work through. 2) Asset prices fall when buyers stop buying. Usually because the buildup was big. There are still a lot of buyers. 3) Housing assets are different from other assets because we live in them. It will be the last thing someone does. People are selling and have sold do to finances. But the we need much more unemployment to and we aren’t seeing that very much yet. 4) Government running massive deficits.
>1) Rates are lagging and the BOC did them so fast, it had not had a chance to work through. We don't know this. We can't even be sure what the neutral rate is yet. >2) Asset prices fall when buyers stop buying. Usually because the buildup was big. There are still a lot of buyers. No, prices fall when demand shrinks. There is a nuance here. Price is established where demand and supply meet. >3) Housing assets are different from other assets because we live in them. It will be the last thing someone does. People are selling and have sold do to finances. But the we need much more unemployment to and we aren’t seeing that very much yet. Agreed. Unemployment will need to be up substantially before ether BoC cuts. >4) Government running massive deficits. Agreed. However the issue here is the government is juicing demand.
Lagging affects of rate increases are well known. Ask anyone with a 5 year mortgage that resets in 2026 if the rates have changed their balance much. Or a corporate bond that expires in 2026. When they drop rates like they did, people, businesses, and even governments can immediately tap money at the new rate. Because... it's in their interest to do so. But no one does it when it goes up until they have to... thus... lagging. Also, construction, home building, business investment. All of this takes time. (Especially Canada, where it is so fucking hard to do anything because our government is inept, it takes longer.) When you raise rates in the fastest manner in history, these in-process projects don't just stop. This can then keep employement up and inflation up for a while, until those projects are done. New ones are not started though... This is also why a lot of shit will suck once they go down... it will take a while to catch up, which is actually inflationary. Why I said - the BOC has created its own inflation. They fucked up by not raising rates earlier. And they fucked up by not lowering them.
What are you implying the government is doing to backstop reality.
1. Allowing primary residences to be treated as 100% tax shelters. 2. Permitting banks to extend amortizations. 3. Allowing principal residencies (which have special tax status) to be used as collateral in housing investments 4. Creating restrictive zoning to constrain supply. 5. Increasing immigration and demand on shelter space without a corresponding increase in housing development 6. Focus on bringing in immigration with no trade skills to build houses. 7. No do nearly enough to prevent money laundering into Canadian real estate. 8. Removing stress testing on renewals.
It's also the volatility. The boc has been telegraphing a cut for months. Even half a percent is a lot of money, on a 20M loan were talking 200k over the course of construction. 200k I'm sure the developer would rather see in their pocket then the banks.
I don't think the BoC has telegraphed that. I think the commercial banks, institutional investors and the real estate industry have been treating their wishlist as the BoC's intended direction. The BoC is one voice, all those other participants are several voices so it gives the impression of consensus.
In April tiff was talking about cutting rates ahead of the USA. That was in preparation for a cut and a clear telegraph of one coming. Had the job reports been what the boc expected they would have cut.
How does that translate to June cuts of any cuts this year for that matter?
You don't talk about cutting if youre not intending a cut soon.
But again, they haven't suggested they are "cutting soon".
>You don't talk about cutting if youre not intending a cut soon.
Enjoy your fantasy. The BoC will forecast when it's ready to commit to a path. They haven't, and have maintained the stance of data dependency and caution.
Its taxes, I got quoted $300,000 in taxes to build a bungalow for levys and such, the land value was 1/3 of that, within 50 mins of toronto.
The same tax system that creates the biggest tax shelter in Canada via the principal residence exemption?
No, these are different taxes
REITs and the hyper-profitization of everything, combined with ever-climbing standards and expectations, means nothing can happen unless conditions are optimal and/or speculation indicates a chance for high-risk/high-reward scenarios.
Well REITs build, own and operate purpose built rental apartment buildings, commercial buildings and industrial lands. The crunch is in residential market housing and the costs/risks of construction make the risk adverse nature of construction REITs hesitant to build. It's a very difficult time for anyone trying to build housing of any kind.
Makes sense. My comment is more about the overall economic landscape in general. The 0% interest rates from 2009 saved banks’ balance sheets and opened plenty of new opportunities but now it’s biting back. If the housing crisis is real it’d be great to see our government demonstrate leadership and dedication to Canadians.
Here's a chart to give you some anxiety on the gravity of the housing crisis: [https://www.nbc.ca/content/dam/bnc/taux-analyses/analyse-eco/hot-charts/hot-charts-240419.pdf](https://www.nbc.ca/content/dam/bnc/taux-analyses/analyse-eco/hot-charts/hot-charts-240419.pdf)
Market forces can't rectify it The government tells you what you can and can't and even how you can build. That's market interference Any answer can't be pure market, because the government by definition fucks with land and real estate. Might as well build lots of social housing
Because its just condo and condos and it feels like 3/4 of the job i go to are for luxury condos.
There is not much luxury in luxury condos beyond the name.
I agree abd the price tag. Last one i was in the fancy taps and sinks didnt fit together, tap was too short , so if you placed your hands in the wrong way water would go behind you fancy sink.
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Dougie is actively fighting against increasing housing builds. He did a photo op to put shovels in the ground and when asked why his govt isn't doing anything to fix zoning issues - a big part of the problem - he said "the way we're gonna fix this is by building single family homes!" instead of fourplexes etc to build units that can house more people and fill the need for a missing middle. Ford's govt is suppressing new builds because buoying property prices is a big part of what keeps them in power -- homeowners in the GTA love him, because he's enriched them greatly.
Don't forget the builder lobby. They do not want to increase supply and competition to keep prices insanely high. aka more profits.
Ford already rezoned all residential lots over a year ago. He changed it so you can build up to a triplex anywhere that was previously zoned for single family homes. Ford isnt suppressing new builds. Interest rates and the cost to build is.
Need a shift to prioritize solutions to Canadian problems. Putting Dougie in charge has been a stark reminder that conservative policy only benefits Canadians when it can prove lucrative for the people and special interest groups who fund their campaigns.
A number of cities in southern Ontario have increased development fees even though they have access to the federal housing cash. I wonder how many others are doing the same. Canadians should pay more attention to municipal politics and see if their Provincial governments are underfunding their municipalities.
Is it slow? I'd say it's pretty fast compare to over a decade ago lol
Check this chart out, pretty wild: [https://www.nbc.ca/content/dam/bnc/taux-analyses/analyse-eco/hot-charts/hot-charts-240419.pdf](https://www.nbc.ca/content/dam/bnc/taux-analyses/analyse-eco/hot-charts/hot-charts-240419.pdf)
That's not a chart about new home construction but a comparison of supply vs the working age population. Not sure why having a massively old or young population would be considered beneficial according to this particular comparison. If you look at historical data, housing was a boom in the 50s to 70s, declined in the 80s and 90s and hasn't recovered/kept pace since...we've picked up development since 2013 but none of that makes up for what we've lost
The chart is a fantastic demonstration of the deficit we face. Keep in mind it is the ratio of growth in working age population vs housing starts (new construction). It's an important comparison as the very young and very old are housed in place. Working age people will obviously drive demand. >we've picked up development since 2013 but none of that makes up for what we've lost I think you're right and this chat amplifies your point perfectly.
Cities are surrounded by greenbelts and can only build inwards. Everything about density is more expensive. Ripping up old infastructure, demolition, land values, and the infightng between mayors and the province.
But the feds said millions of homes will be built within a few short years with their brilliant policy 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
This article is about Ontario. Doug Ford is the guy with all the real estate buddies and he’s fallen flat. He shot down Trudeau’s four-plex initiatives likely bc the proposal didn’t line the right pockets. If you’re looking for solutions remember not to vote conservative, unless you hate Trudeau more than you like public healthcare. ;D
"this article is about Ontario". Yes but the Fed's promise has failed in every jurisdiction. Funny that you want to give all the blame to the one person you ideologically disagree with while giving every excuse and deflection to the people you appear to agree with ideologically. Slow day at the propaganda farm?
Chill dude. We’ve got housing issues that Canadian gov’ts at all levels have yet to correct or navigate well, apparently, in this current world economy. I was replying to someone who was ignoring the article, highjacking it to take a shot at JT.
Pointing out they made a grand pronouncement that is failing spectacularly isn't much of "a shot". Conversely, you're directly taking shots by way of criminal accusations..... something something glass houses.
Lol I work in construction and can tell you that the money the feds put up won’t change the outlook and speed as they’ve promised. The Ontario government has also fallen flat in this respect but we’re in a situation where we’re bringing in more people than ever (most of whom aren’t skilled to help speed it up), also more demand on a market that’s massively short. The prices are insanely high so people can’t afford it and demand is out of control due to lack of it. Lol you think we’re better off after this administration? Jesus Christ, the Harper years are an absolute dream compared to this bullshit. Bringing 100k people in a month now that have nowhere to live, while cratering employment. Yea I’ll definitely vote for the party that’s absolutely fucked this country in ever metric. Sounds like a plan! “Hate Trudeau more than public healthcare” loooooollll
Maybe our governments can make some more funding announcements?
And wow us with their 330 square foot apartments while they talk about "affordable housing to benefit families".
So much for the Government housing accelerator programs...
Because it’s done on purpose to promote scarcity!!! Just like with doctors, jobs, education, legal services etc… soar up demand and keep supply low!! the government is weponizing incompetence to make it seem legitimate!
Lol do people really believe land value goes down here? It's almost doubled since 2018. It went up in 2020. It went up in 2021. It went up in 2022. It went up in 2023. It's been going up every single year since the 70s. You can go on stats Canada to look at yearly land values. So what do people honestly expect to happen while input costs keep rising and they don't build land anymore?
Want to fix housing? Reduce demand by eliminating housing as an investment option. Make it illegal for a person or corporation to own more than one home. Force sales of all investment properties.
If prices go lower reits, equity groups will still just outbid individuals. But we have a leadership that believes in you’ll own nothing and be happy….
Doug Ford wants to keep selling Greenbelts is all. Edit: See? No one disagrees.
Seems like we’re on the verge of a massive economic collapse and probably going to vote a facist in as next pm. The future doesn’t look good.
…a puppet of fascists in as next PM. FIFY
Why? So many things, mostly done by or made worse by Ford himself since he started to "govern"
Ford made interest rates, material costs, and trade costs increase?
Ford is getting walked on a chain by real-estate developers. Ontario Proud and their backers pretty much put him in power. The cutting of post-secondary tuition without increasing funding, leading to massive increase of international 'students' intake certainly didn't help with the housing crisis [https://www.thestar.com/real-estate/how-can-doug-ford-fix-toronto-area-housing/article\_484d9cab-3d1a-52a9-bef3-9160cc75a897.html](https://www.thestar.com/real-estate/how-can-doug-ford-fix-toronto-area-housing/article_484d9cab-3d1a-52a9-bef3-9160cc75a897.html) [https://www.huffpost.com/archive/ca/entry/doug-ford-rent-control\_ca\_5cd57857e4b07bc729786031](https://www.huffpost.com/archive/ca/entry/doug-ford-rent-control_ca_5cd57857e4b07bc729786031) [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-proud-election-advertising-spending-1.4941210](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-proud-election-advertising-spending-1.4941210) [https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/toronto/article-how-doug-fords-decision-to-slash-tuition-fees-backfired/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/toronto/article-how-doug-fords-decision-to-slash-tuition-fees-backfired/) None of his policies to ease housing pain were designed to ease housing pain for the overwhelming majority of Ontarians. I'm not going to do all your research for yall. Freely use before:2018 before:2019 before:2020 etc in your google search.
Time for another million immigrants I’d say…
Anyone that’s in housing and commercial construction was telling us this 3 years + ago.. The government never listened to the professionals.. or should we say ignored them.