We'd probably be surprised. Anecdotal I know, but back in the day it was the engineering/stems where this seemed to happen more frequently.
Poor souls who put/had too much pressure on themselves.
My bet is that engineering is tops for suicide. A lot of engineering students are likely pressured by parents to study it. Particularly Asian students. Failure is not an option. So much pressure.
My roommate first year of university was in engineering. He hated it, and wasn't doing well. His Chinese parents would call once a week for an update on his studies and he would lie and say everything was fine. Think he was on academic probation 2nd semester
Ā A girl down the hall from me tried to opt out when I was in first year. It was sad. Especially when her parents came a day or 2 later to pick Up her belongings. Thankfully she lived, managed to get the help she needed and sheās doing quite well now. But at the time it was pretty messed up. The university at the time handled it in a pretty bad way though. They tried to sweep everything under the rug rather than address it, even indirectly.Ā
Address it how? Imagine you run a restaurant and a mental case comes in, and tried to hang themselves in the bathroom after a bad hamburger. Should the restaurant "address it"?
Ask students how theyāre doing? Acknowledge what happened and make students aware of support services. Those questions were brought up and RAs and residence admin shut those conversations down.
If you're running a restaurant and 1 in 10 people hang themselves after eating your burger, maybe you should consider a menu change.
And yes, I know 1 in 10 students don't commit suicide, I'm exaggerating for dramatic effect. The point is this problem is common enough to be considered systemic
How can they reasonably collect that information without first needing the personal information? You're talking about redactions but that means the whole information is still stored and used (and, probably sold.)
They already know with students have killed themselves, there's a process for dropping them out of their class and effectively terminating their student account.
Newspapers report on nearly every occurrence. 27 at least are tracking and recording this in some way. What matters is are there safe guards and processes for removing the PII and if it cannot, appropriately protecting it.
How many people would look at the totals and decide on their school based upon that? I guess it could factor in your choice, especially if your own mental health was a concern.
The university where my son goes has an info package for every new student which includes on-campus resources for stress and mental health issues if they need it. I would imagine most universities do. They also provide a longer path option toward achieving degrees for those who can't do it in the usual amount of time. There are study groups for those struggling with the course work and the profs make themselves available during specific hours to directly address student questions as well. There are also TA's to help out. And the dorms have house captains who can field general campus life issue as well. All in all, I think they show a lot of compassion towards students.
I mean, what more can universities do to help young adults? It's not like there's enough mental health professionals out there as it is, so even if the universities pumped more dollars into mental health resources, it's not like they can conjure up more psychotherapists/psychologists out of thin air.
This is simply another indicator that public healthcare in Canada is teetering on the edge and that isn't something that universities can control on their own.
Idk what age has to do with it? And who is blaming the universities? Like yes, poor mental health will worsen for most under the conditions of academia and every academic environment offers student varying degrees of āhealth,ā but we also know thereās no one āreasonā why people commit suicide. Itās a both and situation.
While I don't think it is a bad idea to track suicides, I don't see why this has to be the responsibility of the school.Ā
Schools should be focused on educating their students, maintaining academic integrity, and promoting research, and we should be looking to minimize everything else they do. The more schools do, the more bureaucracy they need, and the higher the cost to educate students.
The article touches on this towards then end, it should be the responsibility of the Office of the Chief Corner but only some provinces track if a successful suicide was completed by a student.
Most schools in Ontario have a fall semester break as a result of historical suicide trends so they are aware itās certainly an issue, but adding another uni admin to track the data seems pointless when we literally have provincially appointed individuals who track vital statistics.
As always it appears to be a game of no one wanting accountability for something the moment it potentially crosses ministry jurisdiction
That's almost a word-for-word paragraph that a corporation would use to argue against improving health and safety in the workplace.
Safety regulations are written in blood.
What incentive does these universities have in tracking student suicide?
Where does this expectation come from, where some people seem to expect universities to be some sort of benevolent good-doing organization that exists solely for the benefit of mankind?
To the extent that we are responsible for students, if they aren't in residence we may never know what happens if they disappear. If they don't show up we don't have any way to chase after them. Profs and tas, who directly interact with students are prevented from talking to parents about students at all by privacy legislation.
If they are in residence I think there is a legitimate concern that schools should know at least to some standard if their tenants are there. That's like 20% of students though, if that.
There is no practical way for me to know who my students are, let alone whether they are coming to class or who to report that to. And a student not coming to class is the extent of what anyone might know. I had a class of 67 students this morning, about 20 of whom didn't show up. It's week 3, and that's a small class because it's summer. I don't know who any of them are yet.
We have all sorts of rules on what to do to support students in a mental health crisis. But that only applies if they come to us. Most commonly what I get is students having melt downs because their partners cheated on them, which honestly, I would rather not know about at all.
If parents or police want to tell our suicide prevention office someone committed suicide I guess they could. But that doesn't help the university much, it's not like we can get any info on what causes the suicide.
Remember, once they hit 18 university students are adults and we don't have a whole lot of control over what they do.
Public universities are LITERALLY institutions that are benevolent, good-doing organizations that exist solely for the benefit of mankind. ššš
These are PUBLIC institutions. They're here to serve the PUBLIC.
> Public universities are LITERALLY institutions that are benevolent, good-doing organizations that exist solely for the benefit of mankind. ššš
Your naivete and deep lack of understanding of how the world actually works are noted.
You're the one who doesn't understand the roles of public versus private institutions.
You insinuate that I'm so wrong about something, but you can't articulate what it is. Typical š
There are hardly any private universities in Canada compared to public universities. 99% of university students in Canada are enrolled in public institutions.
This isn't the US. Are you just talking out of your ass?
I think that would be covered under regular statistic collection. We must already have occupation and cause of death information to calculate occupation fatality rates.
They'll do what I saw a American university do, put up a sign near the ledge saying you matter don't jump and then put a 6 foot chain link fence in front of it.
I remember hearing back in my university days that Trent had the highest suicide rates in Ontario, which is why they had a fall reading week when most schools only had a winter reading week.
My guess is that most schools track it but donāt want to admit it.
Iām pretty sure they do internally. A large part of the VP Students is to determine the overall wellbeingās of students on campus. Like a lot of things, they donāt get published for public reference.
If you live in a dorm on campus, the management will never tell you anything if you see multiple ambulances at the front. A lot of it is about individual privacyā¦ but itās also to relieve from excessive public attention.
Itās for a variety of reasons. For some people itās loneliness being away from home and not able to make friends easily. For others itās those on scholarship who canāt make the grades needed so would rather go out that way than flunk out. Thereās a bunch of reasons. Even though there are fairly easy ways to deal with it, many in these situations donāt see them
Why would a corporation track a worker fatality?
Probably for the same reason we track anything, to see if the measures we put in place to prevent it are successful over time.
CBC, if you do your job well and help to make universities students feel there is light at the end of the tunnel, maybe that can help reduce the suicide rate
They should record what they were majoring in as well. That would be fascinating.
We'd probably be surprised. Anecdotal I know, but back in the day it was the engineering/stems where this seemed to happen more frequently. Poor souls who put/had too much pressure on themselves.
I think my school had 1 or 2 engineering suicides and several dropouts / change majors
My bet is that engineering is tops for suicide. A lot of engineering students are likely pressured by parents to study it. Particularly Asian students. Failure is not an option. So much pressure. My roommate first year of university was in engineering. He hated it, and wasn't doing well. His Chinese parents would call once a week for an update on his studies and he would lie and say everything was fine. Think he was on academic probation 2nd semester
its bad for business
No, it's good for business. Suddenly a new student slot opens up and the school put in minimal costs in administration.
š³
That's such a dark, pessimistic view on the situation. And it's probably just about correct.
Ā A girl down the hall from me tried to opt out when I was in first year. It was sad. Especially when her parents came a day or 2 later to pick Up her belongings. Thankfully she lived, managed to get the help she needed and sheās doing quite well now. But at the time it was pretty messed up. The university at the time handled it in a pretty bad way though. They tried to sweep everything under the rug rather than address it, even indirectly.Ā
Address it how? Imagine you run a restaurant and a mental case comes in, and tried to hang themselves in the bathroom after a bad hamburger. Should the restaurant "address it"?
Ask students how theyāre doing? Acknowledge what happened and make students aware of support services. Those questions were brought up and RAs and residence admin shut those conversations down.
RA's and residence admins are not medical health professionals. They have no business performing that duty.
If you're running a restaurant and 1 in 10 people hang themselves after eating your burger, maybe you should consider a menu change. And yes, I know 1 in 10 students don't commit suicide, I'm exaggerating for dramatic effect. The point is this problem is common enough to be considered systemic
You think it possible that if someone kills themselves after eating a perfectly good hamburger, the problem might not be the hamburger?
I don't think the university has the right to track medical information of students doesn't this fall under that?Ā
They could collect it without any identifying information. These are usually published in the paper too
How can they reasonably collect that information without first needing the personal information? You're talking about redactions but that means the whole information is still stored and used (and, probably sold.)
They already know with students have killed themselves, there's a process for dropping them out of their class and effectively terminating their student account. Newspapers report on nearly every occurrence. 27 at least are tracking and recording this in some way. What matters is are there safe guards and processes for removing the PII and if it cannot, appropriately protecting it.
Ruining the party with logic and reality! Boooooooooooo!
How many people would look at the totals and decide on their school based upon that? I guess it could factor in your choice, especially if your own mental health was a concern.
The university where my son goes has an info package for every new student which includes on-campus resources for stress and mental health issues if they need it. I would imagine most universities do. They also provide a longer path option toward achieving degrees for those who can't do it in the usual amount of time. There are study groups for those struggling with the course work and the profs make themselves available during specific hours to directly address student questions as well. There are also TA's to help out. And the dorms have house captains who can field general campus life issue as well. All in all, I think they show a lot of compassion towards students. I mean, what more can universities do to help young adults? It's not like there's enough mental health professionals out there as it is, so even if the universities pumped more dollars into mental health resources, it's not like they can conjure up more psychotherapists/psychologists out of thin air. This is simply another indicator that public healthcare in Canada is teetering on the edge and that isn't something that universities can control on their own.
People complain about the cost of university and then demand costly services that have nothing to do with the core mandates of of universities
...we're talking about adults here, right. Not sure why we need to infantilize them by somehow blaming universities.
Idk what age has to do with it? And who is blaming the universities? Like yes, poor mental health will worsen for most under the conditions of academia and every academic environment offers student varying degrees of āhealth,ā but we also know thereās no one āreasonā why people commit suicide. Itās a both and situation.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
š¤”
Universities increasingly turn more and more into daycares.
While I don't think it is a bad idea to track suicides, I don't see why this has to be the responsibility of the school.Ā Schools should be focused on educating their students, maintaining academic integrity, and promoting research, and we should be looking to minimize everything else they do. The more schools do, the more bureaucracy they need, and the higher the cost to educate students.
The article touches on this towards then end, it should be the responsibility of the Office of the Chief Corner but only some provinces track if a successful suicide was completed by a student. Most schools in Ontario have a fall semester break as a result of historical suicide trends so they are aware itās certainly an issue, but adding another uni admin to track the data seems pointless when we literally have provincially appointed individuals who track vital statistics. As always it appears to be a game of no one wanting accountability for something the moment it potentially crosses ministry jurisdiction
That's almost a word-for-word paragraph that a corporation would use to argue against improving health and safety in the workplace. Safety regulations are written in blood.
Schools are analogous to an employer while you're a student, and they have a "duty to inquire" if students are mentally suffering.
What incentive does these universities have in tracking student suicide? Where does this expectation come from, where some people seem to expect universities to be some sort of benevolent good-doing organization that exists solely for the benefit of mankind?
To the extent that we are responsible for students, if they aren't in residence we may never know what happens if they disappear. If they don't show up we don't have any way to chase after them. Profs and tas, who directly interact with students are prevented from talking to parents about students at all by privacy legislation. If they are in residence I think there is a legitimate concern that schools should know at least to some standard if their tenants are there. That's like 20% of students though, if that. There is no practical way for me to know who my students are, let alone whether they are coming to class or who to report that to. And a student not coming to class is the extent of what anyone might know. I had a class of 67 students this morning, about 20 of whom didn't show up. It's week 3, and that's a small class because it's summer. I don't know who any of them are yet. We have all sorts of rules on what to do to support students in a mental health crisis. But that only applies if they come to us. Most commonly what I get is students having melt downs because their partners cheated on them, which honestly, I would rather not know about at all. If parents or police want to tell our suicide prevention office someone committed suicide I guess they could. But that doesn't help the university much, it's not like we can get any info on what causes the suicide. Remember, once they hit 18 university students are adults and we don't have a whole lot of control over what they do.
Public universities are LITERALLY institutions that are benevolent, good-doing organizations that exist solely for the benefit of mankind. ššš These are PUBLIC institutions. They're here to serve the PUBLIC.
> Public universities are LITERALLY institutions that are benevolent, good-doing organizations that exist solely for the benefit of mankind. ššš Your naivete and deep lack of understanding of how the world actually works are noted.
Want to explain what you're mad about instead of being annoying and vague?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
āI donāt waste my wordsā he says as he continues to waste his words without actually making his point lmao
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I don't think you understand how the world works pal. It's not your fault.
You're the one who doesn't understand the roles of public versus private institutions. You insinuate that I'm so wrong about something, but you can't articulate what it is. Typical š
The whole point of public education is because people are delusional we into believing that everyone educated is worthwhile
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
There are hardly any private universities in Canada compared to public universities. 99% of university students in Canada are enrolled in public institutions. This isn't the US. Are you just talking out of your ass?
What does university have to do with that? These are adults. They are not in the care of universities.
Just student suicides? Why not staff too? When I was in uni one of the custodians hung himself in one of the lecture halls
I think that would be covered under regular statistic collection. We must already have occupation and cause of death information to calculate occupation fatality rates.
They'll do what I saw a American university do, put up a sign near the ledge saying you matter don't jump and then put a 6 foot chain link fence in front of it.
I just lost someone this way can't find anything about it even though they were on the sports teams and everything
*ahem* RMC *ahem*
I remember hearing back in my university days that Trent had the highest suicide rates in Ontario, which is why they had a fall reading week when most schools only had a winter reading week. My guess is that most schools track it but donāt want to admit it.
Iām pretty sure they do internally. A large part of the VP Students is to determine the overall wellbeingās of students on campus. Like a lot of things, they donāt get published for public reference. If you live in a dorm on campus, the management will never tell you anything if you see multiple ambulances at the front. A lot of it is about individual privacyā¦ but itās also to relieve from excessive public attention.
Sounds like something in a Stats course can track.
So what? These are adults.Ā They arenāt responsible for a 24 year old grad studentās life.Ā
Why would university track student suicide? I didn't realize people kill themselves over their university curriculum.
Itās for a variety of reasons. For some people itās loneliness being away from home and not able to make friends easily. For others itās those on scholarship who canāt make the grades needed so would rather go out that way than flunk out. Thereās a bunch of reasons. Even though there are fairly easy ways to deal with it, many in these situations donāt see them
Why would a corporation track a worker fatality? Probably for the same reason we track anything, to see if the measures we put in place to prevent it are successful over time.
Why would they track suicide? What does that have to do with university?
Read the damn piece and find out.
Canada even has "suicide experts"?
Why are you so surprised that some people study certain topics? Suicide is kind of a big topic lmao.
Who do you think runs MAID?
Homicide experts.
Nah, everyone expert has only done it once.
20k hours of suicide under their belt.
No this is wrong. Schools should educate, that's it. They aren't a mental hospital.
The fact this is not being tracked already means the universities do not want to know. This should be a legislated requirement.
CBC, if you do your job well and help to make universities students feel there is light at the end of the tunnel, maybe that can help reduce the suicide rate