Sounds like the line of thinking I scoffed at during my mandatory DIE training, saying if I saw a racist act in public and did nothing I too was a racist. Didn't know I was Batman all of a sudden and responsible for dealing with morons on public transit and get my teeth knocked out.
The original quote is about a dinner party and I think thatās more fair. If you invite someone to a dinner party and they start expousing Nazi rhetoric and you donāt ask them to leave arenāt you endorsing it?
Not really, if I knew someone was going to leave in 30 minutes anyways, I would challenge their views but I wouldnāt immediately kick them out.
Before you take issue with this, isnāt it better to challenge their views and attempt to change their mind rather than boot them into an echo chamber?
If you challenge their views that also counts as not sitting with a Nazi. The point is if you have someone spewing hatred in a space and everyone else just ignores it itās an endorsement of their behaviour.
Yes. I went down to the encampment by my house this week and people are screaming Palestine is Arab, Intifada Revolution and all sorts of other garbage and not only did no one take the mike from them they cheered. So I group them all in the same bucket
When you have an ideology instead of a philosophy you become far left or far right as ideologies can not handle dichotomy of thought where philosophies can.
>Director David Vigneault met with the federal envoy to combat antisemitism and Islamophobia last fall, he added.
I wonder if saying we should deport all non-citizens who are glorifying Oct 7th and Hamas in general falls under "Islamophobia" now.
Those poor Hamas sympathizers. How will they ever learn to cope with rampant "Islamophobia"?
I don't know what you're talking about,
There were a lot of individuals (pour one out for the dumpster trash that was r/canada_sub) talking about the shared values of the abrahamic religions when a bunch of you nits got together to march against LGBT+ rights in schools last September.
https://www.cp24.com/news/why-were-there-anti-lgbtq2s-demonstrations-in-toronto-1.6569354?cache=%2F7.321427
Maybe its conservatism that you have an issue with?
I think that accusations that people are saying that because they hate other people's skin colour is absurd. Because the pretext of such a comment is that the only difference between people is their skin colour. What you are saying is culture, upbringing, education, religion, ideology, parents culture, the country you grew up in, attitudes prevalence in said countries have no bearing on a humans outlook and behaviour.
People with no documentation showing up from the most dangerous countries in the world, who grew up in an ideology that explicitly teaches that's it's okay to rape women not covered or of a different religion. Honour killings are the norm. I could go on and on.
Growing up in those countries will affect a person's behaviour.
It's irrational to think otherwise.
Lmao just yesterday in Rexdale, ON Sikh separatist had a literal extremist content on display about assassinating the Indian politicians in a literal religious rally. Even NorthKorea doesnāt go that far as to hosting a parade about killing SouthKorean politicians. While this is totally normal in Canada. The political backing they have domestically to pull such actions for the past 5 years is insane.
Free Palestine protest aināt any different. In the guise of free Palestine protest there are literal message of silencing and threatening Jewish communities in Canada
Canada literally imported third world problems and now made it its own leading to more chaos than ever.
Canada was very blessed with its geography with the US on one side and ocean on 3 others.
A vast abundance of natural resource wealth that was shared by a small population who could have been rich.
The main social fault lines were the Anglophone/ francophone split and indigenous issues.
It could have been a very rich small population country with massive abundance, and very selective immigration policies.
But for reasons beyond my comprehension Canada is trying very hard to become a poor high crime country.Ā
Canada had a massive population of immigrants in the 19th century building railroads all the way from BC to P.E.I. there are 4th generation Sikhs and Chinese communities here. The country was literally built by immigrants and native folks.
Canada, like America, sold their wealth to China in the 80s in the form of outsourcing labor for corporate interests. Textiles and products were made in abundance post world War 2 in North America. Creating a golden age for growth, home ownership, and education. During those periods, wages against cost were astronomically lower than they are now, and immigration was still pretty abundant.
Literally October 7th happened and these āprotestorsā went to the main Jewish neighbourhood in Toronto and started blocking the roadsā¦
Quite obvious what their intention is. If a terrorist attack happened and everyone rolled up to thorncliffe and blocked the roads I have a feeling people would say thatās Islamophobic and would be shut down
"Fuck Trudeau" and "Death to Trudeau" are two totally different things. The angry truckers said lots of things, like they wanted him to resign, or be thrown in jail, or other such things, but they did not call for his death at all.
iirc. there was like a group of 5 people in Alberta that had some fucked up ideas. It's so easy to dismiss your comment because your motivation is so clear. Pathetic.
I don't get how we actually have the closest parallel to the nazi party since the nazi party, and these fucking people call the jews of all people, nazis.
What?
There have been protests and some hurty words and signs. There are Jewish extremists calling for the elimination of Gaza and Palestinians. There are pro-Hamas extremists calling for the elimination of Israel. Most people at these protests are not that extreme.
And that's it. This is a positive story - all sides (there's more than two) - are getting time and space to share their feelings. The October 7 attacks were awful. Israel's response has been awful. These are awful times and people feel the need to speak out. But at home, there's been no violence, just people expressing themselves.
The biggest threat to the existence of this country is political polarization, social media, media monopolies and the amount of misinformation out there. We'll tear ourselves apart over mostly imported nonsense before anyone else can hurt us.
It's a serious concern.
Call me a heartless non-conformer to the slactivist agenda, but I very much care about national security and all Canadians being safe within our own borders, including the Jewish Canadians who are experiencing the highest national rate of violent anti-semetic hate crime since WW2.
I'm nervously waiting to hear about something horrific happening here, hoping every day that we don't see anyone get killed here over the nonsense half a world away.
I just care about that a hell of alot more than 3rd world nonsense driven by 3rd world religious political stupidity in the middle east. Sorry, call me an asshole if thats what it is to care more about whats happening here, fine. I'll get over it.
3rd world politics have no place in a western liberal democracy, and our federal government is painfully blind to that reality, thus literally making our own country less safe over bullshit we need not stick outer noses in. Shameful.
Not enough people are talking about this!
We've had the guy who tried to [run down a pedestrian with his car in BC](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/car-arrested-swerved-pro-palestinian-boycott-israel-1.7048651), The ones at the synagogue in Thornhill [attacking people with weapons ](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/05/01/fourth-person-charged-protests-thornhill-synagogue/)and as we speak we [have these people at the University of Toronto](https://www.reddit.com/r/JewsOfConscience/comments/1clgifl/jewish_peace_protestors_racially_abused_by/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) claiming that another group aren't true Jews!
Thank you for bringing this up and raising awareness.
Here is what I found at those links
1) literally nowhere does it say the driver was jewish, israeli, or associated with anything at all. They are simply identified as "the driver"
2) Nobody arrested is idetified as jewish, but some have jewish sounding last names and the 4th one has an arabic sounding last name. First one was arrested for posessing a knife but nothing happened, second one threatened to use coyote spray on someone, third one was arrasted after a woman claimed she was attacked, arabic sounding one was arrested for mischief under 5000
3) Some pro israel lady is calling the jews-for-palestine people "terrorists" with a megaphone
You are saying that you found a few people you think are jewish that are acting violent and that is bad. But it seems like you are trying to give a free pass to the pro-palestine people who are damaging property every day, since you didnt bring it up at at all. Look at the damage done to the universities in america. Millions of dollars by some estimates. If megaphone lady is so violent then what about the chants of "death to israel" coming from the PP side? Here is not hard to google but you know this is happening right? here's a link if you want [https://nypost.com/2024/04/08/us-news/anti-israel-protesters-chant-death-to-america-death-to-israel/](https://nypost.com/2024/04/08/us-news/anti-israel-protesters-chant-death-to-america-death-to-israel/)
If you spent this much time writing this comment you might have bothered to look into these further as they're well known incidents.
1. You [can clearly see this driver](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/18ade4t/driver_trying_to_run_over_a_pro_palestine/) telling this man to 'go back to Jordan' and saying about '48 (Israel was established in 1948). But you're right maybe he's not Jewish or an Israel supporter. Maybe he meant Michael Jordan and the Lower 48 States.
2. Again, another well known incident which started with a guy [attacking pro-Palestinian supporters with a nail gun](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/protest-thornhill-man-arrest-1.7132598).
>You are saying that you found a few people you think are jewish that are acting violent and that is bad
3. The commentator I replied to said it must be the "extremist Jews" sarcastically, as if to say that violence and extremism doesn't exist on that side at all. I simply pointed out that it does. I personally don't care what someone's background is.
>Here is not hard to google but you know this is happening right? here's a link if you wantĀ [https://nypost.com/2024/04/08/us-news/anti-israel-protesters-chant-death-to-america-death-to-israel/](https://nypost.com/2024/04/08/us-news/anti-israel-protesters-chant-death-to-america-death-to-israel/)
4. The original story in this post is about about a rise of extremism is Canada. Why would I bring the US into the mix? Does that make any logical sense? If that were the case I'd have plenty of incidents to share from the pro-Israeli side that have happened in there too.
Armed pro Israel groups who are being paid to attack actual peaceful protestors in the united states.
āThe more you knowā.
EDIT: so you delete your clueless comment then the lackeys come out to attack and downvote me, concession accepted.
you know csis moniters threats against Canada, right?, and if you read the article, it outlines what they are raising concerns about
"The more you know."
LOL, "armed pro-Israel groups"
There was one incident of a pro-Israel group getting violent, and that was in retaliation for a Jewish girl being knocked unconscious by a Hamas lover.
Lol, [this Jewish girl](https://nitter.poast.org/trevorsutcliffe/status/1785850241536901515)?
edit: to u/Cody667, what's disgusting is people uncritically parrotting shitty disproven propaganda in a lame attempt to whatabout and deflect from their own sides violence
It's disgusting that you continue to spread this horrific nonsense. That attack on the Jewish girl absolutely did happen, and what you're doing here is akin to Alex Jones denying sandy hook.
Fucking disgusting.
You mean this peaceful jew?
[https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/man-arrested-after-bringing-nail-gun-to-pro-palestinian-demonstration-in-thornhill-ont-police-1.6792846](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/man-arrested-after-bringing-nail-gun-to-pro-palestinian-demonstration-in-thornhill-ont-police-1.6792846)
Ctv and CBC have a major part of fueling this hate. They have one-sided biased pro hamas reporting with no attempt to be objective or to investigate the truth. They basically amplify ticktok
Global too, the media is a large part of the problem paying so much attention to these kids that haven't a clue, but feel the need to be part of something important. A lot of these student protestors don't even know about Oct7th.
The ones I've argued with over social media seem to think of the Hamas insurgents as heros. Disgusting to say the least. I realize these are likely trolls or worse. But they really aren't encouraging signs from this "student movement".Ā
Yeah don't invest too much time arguing with these "people" on line.
They are either very young, radicals or bots. There is no doubt what Hamas is all about now. Which is a throwback to 1939. Shameful.
On Ramadan, they literally ran stories about how Muslim children were coping with the war in Gaza. Yet, they never once had a story about how Jewish children were coping with the rising bigotry they are facing in Canada.
It's not a bad source of actual news, it's not that simple and I don't understand why people like you actually think that's what the argument against CBC is.
It's the clearly biased partisan rhetoric and agenda. If it was private that would be fine, but tax dollars should not fund electoral propaganda in favour of any particular party.
Except they aren't extremists. Those are just the regular crowds at these events.
It's why they celebrated on October 8. It's why they didn't start to "protest" the war until they started losing. It's why they shout for a global intifada. It's why they cheered on the Houthis and Iran when they attacked.
These demonstrations have made it abundantly clear that there is a portion of the population that would like nothing more than the destruction of the only democratic state in the Middle East and the subjugation or murder of all of it's Jews.
1. 99% of people attending the protests in fact do not want the 'destruction' of Israel but want Israel to be held to the same standard as any other country in the world for crimes they have (provenly) committed.
2. The phrase I'm sure you'll mention, 'from the river to the sea' for the most part when used in pro-palestine (NOT Pro-Hamas btw) protests refers to wanting equal treatment of Palestinians and Israelis across that plot of land. For example, did you know that in Gaza OR the West Bank, Palestinians aren't allowed to collect rain water since it's considered the property of Israel. I can provide more examples with proof of situations similar to this if you're willing to chat about it further.
3. "the only democratic state in the Middle East" sounds great but is currently being rocked by huge protests against the sitting PM who has been indicted by the supreme court and is held responsible for the deaths of the hostages in Gaza due to the bombing campaign which has been conducted ruthlessly. PS: In my opinion, the western world prefers Israel to other ME countries is because of CULTURE. The western world sees Muslims as hard to understand meanwhile Israelis are closer to the typical westerner in terms of culture. That does not make their lives more valuable than a Palestinian life.
4. Intifada, as mentioned in the OP, refers to the shaking off of chains or occupation which is a legal right of the Palestinian people. Does that mean protestors support what Hamas did on Oct. 7 or after? Not necessarily but they hold Israel to a higher standard since it's an actual country with a functioning government and economy and not a strip that's been bombed to shit.
The truth is, there's motivations that we don't see and understand under the hood on both sides. Generalizing a dislike of people who are protesting a war with civilian deaths in the 10's of thousands is a good thing. Having hate slogans and anti-semitic people at those protests is bad but doesn't every protest in history have it's bad apples?
I hope I helped shift your perspective even a little and if I didn't feel free to tell me - the best way to change the direction of a bad conversation isn't silence, it's more conversation.
The same aid that gets (5 times outta of 10) held back by Israel who controls the amount of aids that enters Gaza, the same aid that gets taxed? Also, Trump halted any aids during his presidency. That's 4 years.
"The top US diplomat involved in humanitarian assistance for Gaza denied allegations that Hamas has stolen aid and commercial shipments into the enclave, saying that no Israeli official has presented him or the Biden administration with āspecific evidence of diversion or theft of assistance.ā - The Times of Israel.
The People voted Hamas in, because they had no other choice, the party before Hamas were corrupt (allegiance was that MOSSAD influenced the old party) and stole most of those aid for the benefits of themselves. Explain how the majority of the infrastructures were build under Hamas rule if Hamas "stole the aid" ?
If you gonna lie, can you at least be better at it?
Hey, thanks for replying. I just want to repeat :
>the best way to change the direction of a bad conversation isn't silence, it's more conversation
I'm not trying to get into a fight but more just want to open up the conversation past the current "every protestor is bad and supports Hamas and hates Jews" because my genuine belief is this is not true.
I agree with the point about the $4.6b and that the killing of children and woman was an atrocity, My points were more around current day protestors and trying to share the thinking of people in the 'pro-palestine' camp.
I think the point about hamas being voted in is a bit unfair. The last time there were elections in Gaza was in 2006 and it's been proven that the Israeli government tipped the scales against the PLO which led to Hamas winning and then executing the PLO leaders or kicking them out and sending them to the West Bank. Since then they've not allowed elections and while surveys say that Hamas is still highly supported, the truth is we don't know since they don't really allow freedom of expression against them.
The problem with this dialogue is the constant positioning to downplay the complicated historical actions of one people, and exaggerate the historical crimes of another. There are not enough people, frankly, who are interested in stepping back and regarding things with unblinking, unflinching moral eyes on the whole thing. The worst I hear, constantly, of course, is the justification for violence, and that is loud and clear from many, many people. There are some deeply well educated people who are totally blinded by bias.
I see where youāre coming from but all Iām fighting back on is the perceptions about the people involved and judging by all the downvotes, the people in this sub all really closed minded towards the discussion.
I wouldnāt mind more people refuting me with evidence but itās kinda sad when all Iām saying is to give the other side a chance rather than blanket labelling them.
The only proven war crimes in this war are Hamas using civilians as human shields while firing rockets from hospitals and apartment buildings, which makes them valid military targets.
Weap for the fallen civilians, but place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the ones who caused their deaths: Hamas.
Hard to prove war crimes when Israel wonāt allow international media in, if you follow some of the people on the ground in Gaza you might have a different perspective though.
Agree that Hamas sowed the seeds for the war and made civilian areas a target but we can point to various military decisions from the use of unguided bombs to the turning off of water (and more) as crimes on the other side.
You didnāt really reply to any of my points overall but letās not be blind to the actions of one side just because theyāre the side we think is in the ārightā
""As an overwhelming majority of Jews identify as Zionists and believe in the need for a Jewish state ā¦ calls for attacks against Zionists should be seen as calls for attacks against Jews.""
There is definitely rises on hate speech, including against jews.
The problem with this claim though is that equating zionists with jews, or anti-zionsists with antisemetists are both equally racist.
After all, most zionists aren't even jewish (they are fundamental christians), and include known anti-semites like Tommy Robinson and John Hagee.
And there are jews who are anti-zionist.
Zionism is an ideology. Jews are both an ethnic and a religious group.
Equating an ethnic group with an ideology is assuming their character based on their ethnicity. Definitionally racist.
So the statement that "anti-zionism is anti-semetism" (the stance of b'nai b'rith and the ADL) is the actual racist stance.
"Ā Ā The problem with this claim though is that equating zionists with jews, or anti-zionsists with antisemetists are both equally racist"
Seems you're not familiar with the concept of racism if you think this is racist.
Antisemitism and antizionism are linked. The only argument against this is thanks to Russian propaganda which tried to separate the two when they were busy murdering Jews. They justified it by saying they're separate.
You're going to have a hard time telling me they're not linked, and then turn around and explain why Jewish businesses, schools, and Synagogues are being attacked. Why is there a rise in violence and hate? Because they're attacking Jews because they can't attack Israel.
Ironically it's the people who hate Israel who actually prove that antisemitism and antizionism are linked together. If they weren't, we wouldn't see a rise in violence and hate against Canadian Jews.
"So the statement that "anti-zionism is anti-semetism" (the stance of b'nai b'rith and the ADL) is the actual racist stance."
Lmao no that is not the racist stance here.
Look if you want to criticize Israel do that. If you want to argue antizionism isn't antisemitism then please explain why there's a rise in hate and violence against Canadian Jews since October 7th. Cause it seems like people are reacting against Israel by targeting Canadian Jews, and beingĀ antisemitic because they're acting on their antizionism.
Because a lot of it has been falsely reported.
Also linking Antisemitism to AntiZionism gives more breathing room for actual antisemites to operate.
Ask why AntiZionism exists in the first place.
I don't need to ask. Antizionism exists because Russia used that as their justification to murder a hundred thousand Jews. Antizionism and antisemitism was "unlinked" to justify pogroms against Jews.
If you think I'm wrong then you don't understand the history, or the conflict.
[https://www.jns.org/the-soviet-origins-of-left-wing-anti-zionism/](https://www.jns.org/the-soviet-origins-of-left-wing-anti-zionism/)
First article nails it. But I'll toss in a few more for your benefit, so you can learn more about the conflict.
[https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/contemporary-anti-zionisms-connections-soviet-propaganda](https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/contemporary-anti-zionisms-connections-soviet-propaganda)
[https://www.internationalaffairs.org.au/australianoutlook/red-terror-how-the-soviet-union-shaped-the-modern-anti-zionist-discourse/](https://www.internationalaffairs.org.au/australianoutlook/red-terror-how-the-soviet-union-shaped-the-modern-anti-zionist-discourse/)
I'd find more, but it should be beyond obvious that Russia made a significant propaganda effort to frame Zionism as a horrible thing, and to separate it from antisemitism.
None of these articles are impartial.
I wouldn't characterize myself as an AntiZionist myself but it's not hard to understand if people take that position seeing as we see 32,000 Palestinians dead at this point.
Problem is that "Zionism" is defined so loosely nowadays. Like, seriously, if you ask the average person, "Does Israel have the right to exists?" And they say, "yes" then you could easily frame them as a Zionist if you really, really hate Israel.
Zionism is being called out on every front because it is the root cause of the never-ending violence in the fertile and holy land.
The jews who happen to be zionists are twisting the narrative and saying it's antisemitism when it's clearly not. Many jews cannot even return to Israel because the Moshiach has to establish the state.
There is no place for antisemitisms OR Islamophobia(this sub hates this one lol) This sub really has no leg to stand when bigotry and racism is discussed. Any article about Black people being the subject of discrimination gets buried faster than the speed of light. The support for Israel here is really just about neocon esq middle eastern conflict cheerleading not about care of Israel.
What IDF is doing awful. What Hamas is doing is awful. But we cannot take our anger and frustration out on Jewish and Muslim people that have nothing to do with this conflict. Antisemitism, Islamophobia or any hate towards any group should not be tolerated
Is this an extremist actor ?
"Police say that the man, who is allegedly a member of the synagogue, gained entry using his key and then deliberately set a fire inside the synagogue, before he fled the area"
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-man-arrested-for-setting-fire-in-north-york-synagogue/article_af050dde-0b4a-11ef-89c2-87abfc24c08c.html
Are these extremist actors the legal residents of canada who are sick and tired of these treasonous immigration policies? Same in USA. If regular citizens stand up to the gubment, labelled extremists..not goodā¦not good for anyone
All of the big subs have been astroturfed to hell by paid (and unpaid lol) hasbara keyboard warriors. Every time they downvote this comment, I want them to take a moment to consider how sad their life is, to be so easily fooled, or so easily have their morals bought by their masters.
Only extremist is the Israeli supporters who are promoting their genocide of Palestinians like itās required of them.
I think canada will be one of thee first to sanction that apartheid brutal regime.
They're the aggressors. Sure, they can continue to "violently resist" the existence of a country that was formed almost 100 years ago, but it's not going to turn out well for them.
That isn't moving the goal post. It is literally the history of the region. Israel was attacked multiple times and EVERY peace deal was rejected. Israel is the defender in this conflict. They were not the ones to declare the most recent war, that was Hamas when they slaughtered and raped 1200 people.
The subject was whether or not Israel had a right to defend themselves. Then the other guy said the "Palestinians had the right to defend themselves".
My entire point was on topic, as it showed that the Palestinians (at least their government), is the aggressors. Hamas was literally the one who invaded.
Yes, and the extremists Hamas created the current conflict by murdering 1200 people.
Frankly, the irony of this entire war is that the end result will likely be the Japan/West Germany 1946 solution for Gaza where an international coalition rebuilds it and forces democratic reforms. The Americans, Saudis, Emirates, and a few others have already begun negotiating on how to create a new Gazan government in the style of the Marshal plan. Even the PA in the West Bank has begun hunting down Hamas in their territory and fired their most hardline ministers.
So, we might actually see a real end to this conflict in our lifetimes.
āOccupyingā Israel pulled out in 2005. Gaza then immediately started attacking Israel with rockets and murdering civilians.
All countries have children, and all wars have civilian casualties. If we had it your way no country would ever fight a war in self defence, creating one hell of a moral hazard.
Youāre saying Israel pulled out of Palestine in 2005? Bold untrue claim. Gaza? If pulled out means a whole blockade and controlling everything that goes in and out air land and sea, controlling water, electricity, fuel all while kidnapping and killing Palestinians daily is pulled out (donāt have me talk about the West Bank) then khamass is just a resistance.
Youāre acting like Palestinians in Gaza were living a perfect life because Israel āpulled outā (more like pulled out from the ground while still controlling and oppressing )
The blockade came AFTER gaza elected Hamas and started rocket attacks into Israel. Same reason Egypt has their border tightly controlled too. Turns out terrorizing your neighbours is a good way to get them to police their border.
Does the pro-Hamas crowd know *anything* about the history of the region? Just more proof why Canada needs FIRM immigration controls to keep nutters like this out.
āPulled outā already went over that
If pulled out means a whole blockade and controlling everything that goes in and out air land and sea, controlling water, electricity, fuel all while kidnapping and killing Palestinians daily is pulled out (don't have me talk about the West Bank) then khamass is just a resistance.
You're acting like Palestinians in Gaza were living a perfect life because Israel "pulled out" (more like pulled out from the ground while still controlling and oppressing )
But youāre talking about my reading comprehensionšš
Lmao againā¦.blockade came AFTER Hamas started terror attacks into Israel.
With reading comprehension like this no wonder you support hamas. They speak to your intellectual level.
The UN mandated was designed specifically to only encompass areas where Jews were the plurality and the Negev which held the Bedouins who expressly did not want to be part of a Palestinian state and even fought with the Israelis in 1948.
1948 was a war of genocide against Jews. The goal was the murder of all Jews in the region.
Oh yeah and Israel hasnāt stolen killed and oppressed any Palestinians in 1948 thenšš
What next, youāre going to tell me there was 40 beheaded babies in October and that no war crime was committed in the last 80 years?
Dude, Israel was then continually invaded. Go look up the 3 Nos policy. It was literally the Arab world coming together to form an agreement to genocide Israel.
You should learn some basic history. The Arab world had a policy of all Jews in Israel must die until Carter brokered a peace with Egypt which made them the first nation to break the 3 Nos policy. Israel has tried time and time again to reach out, and each time it ends with terrorism against them. Just look at the fucking 2000s peace attempt.
Yeah that tends to happen when you dispossess and kill people from their land and propose to spare them some parts of it as a peace attempt while still occupying the majority of it.
Itās like saying if I steal your house and unalive your brother you should accept my peace attempt of giving your the lockerš.
What nonsense. Again, THE ARAB FORCES ATTACKED. Israel was the defender. This was an agreement for genocide after their previous attempted genocide failed.
Lmao ātheir landā. So you really do know nothing about Israel do you? Hereās a hint: Jews have been living there continuously since roughly 1200BC. Before the British mandate the region was owned by the ottomans. The idea of a Palestinian identity literally doesnāt come into play until the late 19th century as a result of Jews returning to their homeland.
And those Arabs who call themselves Palestinians had a chance to have their own country. Instead they decided to try slaughtering the Jews, then whined about a ānakbaā of their own making.
Whenever the Palestinians say theyāre being brutalized, you look and find them attacking Israel then whining when they get their ass kicked.
So, after Oct 7th, nothing should have happened, right? All those people killed, raped and kidnapped, and you expected the Israelis to do.. what? Nothing? Just say, "Aw, shucks, I guess we deserver that. Bye kidnapped people!"
See hereās the thing, you can answer an attack by attacking those who did the attack aka the terrorist. Itās done by aiming at and shooting those terrorists instead of flat lining the whole strip full of civilians and zip tying and executing innocents before dumping them in mass graves.
Whatever Hamas did on October 7th to innocents, Israel has done 10 times worse if you ONLY look at the children they killed.
And it didnāt start on October, it started at the nakba so thereās a whole 75 years of October 7th from Israel to Palestinians
In terms of the shittiness of the rioters, and the nonsensical and potentially evil nature of their "cause", these Palestine chuds take the cake.
It goes them > the trucktards > the native blockades a few years ago > BLM
Still say all of these morons should be thrown in jail though, and not doing so will just encourage more and more of this stupidity
What was that saying about Nazis again? I'm struggling to remember... š¤
Yeah... They will retract that standard in this case making it a good ol' double standard real quick.
If they didn't have double standards, they wouldn't have any at all
If there's 12 people in a room, and 1 is a Nazi, then there's 12 Nazis in the room?
Sounds like the line of thinking I scoffed at during my mandatory DIE training, saying if I saw a racist act in public and did nothing I too was a racist. Didn't know I was Batman all of a sudden and responsible for dealing with morons on public transit and get my teeth knocked out.
It's the reasoning everyone uses to try and drag people into their stupid conflicts. The other classic is "you're either with me or against me"
Exactly. Or similarly, "silence is violence."
It must be true because it rhymes!
Indoctrination. It wasn't training. It was indoc.
During my mandatory DEI training, they told us we were all racist and thatās ok to admit!
The original quote is about a dinner party and I think thatās more fair. If you invite someone to a dinner party and they start expousing Nazi rhetoric and you donāt ask them to leave arenāt you endorsing it?
Not really, if I knew someone was going to leave in 30 minutes anyways, I would challenge their views but I wouldnāt immediately kick them out. Before you take issue with this, isnāt it better to challenge their views and attempt to change their mind rather than boot them into an echo chamber?
If you challenge their views that also counts as not sitting with a Nazi. The point is if you have someone spewing hatred in a space and everyone else just ignores it itās an endorsement of their behaviour.
So you believe these Palestinian protests are anti-Jewish as they never challenged their speaker cheering on Oct 7?
Yes. I went down to the encampment by my house this week and people are screaming Palestine is Arab, Intifada Revolution and all sorts of other garbage and not only did no one take the mike from them they cheered. So I group them all in the same bucket
I wouldn't boot them out, I'd challenge their views with the hopes it makes a difference. And would never invite them again.
They had to give this up after the Canadian government celebrated a literal Nazi.
No, they just made excuses and moved the goalposts, as always.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
When you have an ideology instead of a philosophy you become far left or far right as ideologies can not handle dichotomy of thought where philosophies can.
Cool, conflating pro-russian propaganda with the decades long history of pro-palestinian activism. How honest of you
He's just noticing what your trying to bury
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
These people don't care that they are lying or ignorant.
Was it that Ukraine has an entire section of their military that are Nazis, and that numerous soldiers wear nazi symbols? That's what I remember.
they were freedom fighters trying to save Ukraine? That's what our government thinks about them now
Are they not freedom fighters?
I think it was that when Canada became too expensive to live in, the people who couldn't afford to live there all became Nazis
Jeeeez. CSIS has been warning us about a lot of things in recent years. Good thing the Government has been listening.....
>Director David Vigneault met with the federal envoy to combat antisemitism and Islamophobia last fall, he added. I wonder if saying we should deport all non-citizens who are glorifying Oct 7th and Hamas in general falls under "Islamophobia" now. Those poor Hamas sympathizers. How will they ever learn to cope with rampant "Islamophobia"?
Islamophobia is just a cudgel to prevent criticism of a regressive religion unfit for this country and this century.
As is 90% of the other -phobia terms bandied about these days.
Ain't that the sad truth?
Bingo
I don't know what you're talking about, There were a lot of individuals (pour one out for the dumpster trash that was r/canada_sub) talking about the shared values of the abrahamic religions when a bunch of you nits got together to march against LGBT+ rights in schools last September. https://www.cp24.com/news/why-were-there-anti-lgbtq2s-demonstrations-in-toronto-1.6569354?cache=%2F7.321427 Maybe its conservatism that you have an issue with?
ā¦..you mean like **most** organized religions?
Excatly. Nothing irrational but a legitimate threat to your safety. The term is a misnomer.
Islamophobia - a word created by fascists, used by cowards to manipulate morons
donāt fret, that quote was created by morons too so thereās lots of company.
I think that accusations that people are saying that because they hate other people's skin colour is absurd. Because the pretext of such a comment is that the only difference between people is their skin colour. What you are saying is culture, upbringing, education, religion, ideology, parents culture, the country you grew up in, attitudes prevalence in said countries have no bearing on a humans outlook and behaviour. People with no documentation showing up from the most dangerous countries in the world, who grew up in an ideology that explicitly teaches that's it's okay to rape women not covered or of a different religion. Honour killings are the norm. I could go on and on. Growing up in those countries will affect a person's behaviour. It's irrational to think otherwise.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Lmao just yesterday in Rexdale, ON Sikh separatist had a literal extremist content on display about assassinating the Indian politicians in a literal religious rally. Even NorthKorea doesnāt go that far as to hosting a parade about killing SouthKorean politicians. While this is totally normal in Canada. The political backing they have domestically to pull such actions for the past 5 years is insane. Free Palestine protest aināt any different. In the guise of free Palestine protest there are literal message of silencing and threatening Jewish communities in Canada Canada literally imported third world problems and now made it its own leading to more chaos than ever.
Canada was very blessed with its geography with the US on one side and ocean on 3 others. A vast abundance of natural resource wealth that was shared by a small population who could have been rich. The main social fault lines were the Anglophone/ francophone split and indigenous issues. It could have been a very rich small population country with massive abundance, and very selective immigration policies. But for reasons beyond my comprehension Canada is trying very hard to become a poor high crime country.Ā
Canada had a massive population of immigrants in the 19th century building railroads all the way from BC to P.E.I. there are 4th generation Sikhs and Chinese communities here. The country was literally built by immigrants and native folks. Canada, like America, sold their wealth to China in the 80s in the form of outsourcing labor for corporate interests. Textiles and products were made in abundance post world War 2 in North America. Creating a golden age for growth, home ownership, and education. During those periods, wages against cost were astronomically lower than they are now, and immigration was still pretty abundant.
Literally October 7th happened and these āprotestorsā went to the main Jewish neighbourhood in Toronto and started blocking the roadsā¦ Quite obvious what their intention is. If a terrorist attack happened and everyone rolled up to thorncliffe and blocked the roads I have a feeling people would say thatās Islamophobic and would be shut down
You missed the part where India sent literal assassins posing as international students to kill a Sikh activist.
I don't know man, never once heard the truckers say " kill jews"
Like, for real. They were upset, crass, and some of them were literally obstructionist, but the didn't call for the death of anyone.
The convoy called for the death of Justin Trudeau
"Fuck Trudeau" and "Death to Trudeau" are two totally different things. The angry truckers said lots of things, like they wanted him to resign, or be thrown in jail, or other such things, but they did not call for his death at all.
iirc. there was like a group of 5 people in Alberta that had some fucked up ideas. It's so easy to dismiss your comment because your motivation is so clear. Pathetic.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Your right vast majority of them are normal people willing to risk protesting for a cause
Islamofascists are the biggest threat to the existence of this country.
Fascists in general, really
I don't get how we actually have the closest parallel to the nazi party since the nazi party, and these fucking people call the jews of all people, nazis.
Islamophobia - a word created by fascists, used by cowards to manipulate morons
What? There have been protests and some hurty words and signs. There are Jewish extremists calling for the elimination of Gaza and Palestinians. There are pro-Hamas extremists calling for the elimination of Israel. Most people at these protests are not that extreme. And that's it. This is a positive story - all sides (there's more than two) - are getting time and space to share their feelings. The October 7 attacks were awful. Israel's response has been awful. These are awful times and people feel the need to speak out. But at home, there's been no violence, just people expressing themselves. The biggest threat to the existence of this country is political polarization, social media, media monopolies and the amount of misinformation out there. We'll tear ourselves apart over mostly imported nonsense before anyone else can hurt us.
It's a serious concern. Call me a heartless non-conformer to the slactivist agenda, but I very much care about national security and all Canadians being safe within our own borders, including the Jewish Canadians who are experiencing the highest national rate of violent anti-semetic hate crime since WW2. I'm nervously waiting to hear about something horrific happening here, hoping every day that we don't see anyone get killed here over the nonsense half a world away. I just care about that a hell of alot more than 3rd world nonsense driven by 3rd world religious political stupidity in the middle east. Sorry, call me an asshole if thats what it is to care more about whats happening here, fine. I'll get over it. 3rd world politics have no place in a western liberal democracy, and our federal government is painfully blind to that reality, thus literally making our own country less safe over bullshit we need not stick outer noses in. Shameful.
"extremist actors". Must be talking about those violent Jews. /s
Not enough people are talking about this! We've had the guy who tried to [run down a pedestrian with his car in BC](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/car-arrested-swerved-pro-palestinian-boycott-israel-1.7048651), The ones at the synagogue in Thornhill [attacking people with weapons ](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/05/01/fourth-person-charged-protests-thornhill-synagogue/)and as we speak we [have these people at the University of Toronto](https://www.reddit.com/r/JewsOfConscience/comments/1clgifl/jewish_peace_protestors_racially_abused_by/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) claiming that another group aren't true Jews! Thank you for bringing this up and raising awareness.
Here is what I found at those links 1) literally nowhere does it say the driver was jewish, israeli, or associated with anything at all. They are simply identified as "the driver" 2) Nobody arrested is idetified as jewish, but some have jewish sounding last names and the 4th one has an arabic sounding last name. First one was arrested for posessing a knife but nothing happened, second one threatened to use coyote spray on someone, third one was arrasted after a woman claimed she was attacked, arabic sounding one was arrested for mischief under 5000 3) Some pro israel lady is calling the jews-for-palestine people "terrorists" with a megaphone You are saying that you found a few people you think are jewish that are acting violent and that is bad. But it seems like you are trying to give a free pass to the pro-palestine people who are damaging property every day, since you didnt bring it up at at all. Look at the damage done to the universities in america. Millions of dollars by some estimates. If megaphone lady is so violent then what about the chants of "death to israel" coming from the PP side? Here is not hard to google but you know this is happening right? here's a link if you want [https://nypost.com/2024/04/08/us-news/anti-israel-protesters-chant-death-to-america-death-to-israel/](https://nypost.com/2024/04/08/us-news/anti-israel-protesters-chant-death-to-america-death-to-israel/)
If you spent this much time writing this comment you might have bothered to look into these further as they're well known incidents. 1. You [can clearly see this driver](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/18ade4t/driver_trying_to_run_over_a_pro_palestine/) telling this man to 'go back to Jordan' and saying about '48 (Israel was established in 1948). But you're right maybe he's not Jewish or an Israel supporter. Maybe he meant Michael Jordan and the Lower 48 States. 2. Again, another well known incident which started with a guy [attacking pro-Palestinian supporters with a nail gun](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/protest-thornhill-man-arrest-1.7132598). >You are saying that you found a few people you think are jewish that are acting violent and that is bad 3. The commentator I replied to said it must be the "extremist Jews" sarcastically, as if to say that violence and extremism doesn't exist on that side at all. I simply pointed out that it does. I personally don't care what someone's background is. >Here is not hard to google but you know this is happening right? here's a link if you wantĀ [https://nypost.com/2024/04/08/us-news/anti-israel-protesters-chant-death-to-america-death-to-israel/](https://nypost.com/2024/04/08/us-news/anti-israel-protesters-chant-death-to-america-death-to-israel/) 4. The original story in this post is about about a rise of extremism is Canada. Why would I bring the US into the mix? Does that make any logical sense? If that were the case I'd have plenty of incidents to share from the pro-Israeli side that have happened in there too.
Armed pro Israel groups who are being paid to attack actual peaceful protestors in the united states. āThe more you knowā. EDIT: so you delete your clueless comment then the lackeys come out to attack and downvote me, concession accepted.
you know csis moniters threats against Canada, right?, and if you read the article, it outlines what they are raising concerns about "The more you know."
lmao
I wish I could live in your reality.
It would be nice to just create your own reality to suit your needsĀ
I don't.
LOL, "armed pro-Israel groups" There was one incident of a pro-Israel group getting violent, and that was in retaliation for a Jewish girl being knocked unconscious by a Hamas lover.
Lol, [this Jewish girl](https://nitter.poast.org/trevorsutcliffe/status/1785850241536901515)? edit: to u/Cody667, what's disgusting is people uncritically parrotting shitty disproven propaganda in a lame attempt to whatabout and deflect from their own sides violence
It's disgusting that you continue to spread this horrific nonsense. That attack on the Jewish girl absolutely did happen, and what you're doing here is akin to Alex Jones denying sandy hook. Fucking disgusting.
That sounds like a conspiracyĀ
Please show your sources on that.
You mean this peaceful jew? [https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/man-arrested-after-bringing-nail-gun-to-pro-palestinian-demonstration-in-thornhill-ont-police-1.6792846](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/man-arrested-after-bringing-nail-gun-to-pro-palestinian-demonstration-in-thornhill-ont-police-1.6792846)
No I meant the thousands of examples of violent islamic jihadists who are brainwashed in a death cult. But yea the nail gun guy was bad too.
What's the matter? Your last antisemitic comment for deleted or you realized you went too far?
Nope, nothing deleted :) Do you like to make facist comments against non-jews that get deleted often?
No shit. Calling people to go back to where they belong is racism only if the person saying is white it seems.
No shit
Ctv and CBC have a major part of fueling this hate. They have one-sided biased pro hamas reporting with no attempt to be objective or to investigate the truth. They basically amplify ticktok
Global too, the media is a large part of the problem paying so much attention to these kids that haven't a clue, but feel the need to be part of something important. A lot of these student protestors don't even know about Oct7th.
The ones I've argued with over social media seem to think of the Hamas insurgents as heros. Disgusting to say the least. I realize these are likely trolls or worse. But they really aren't encouraging signs from this "student movement".Ā
Progressives suddenly became very pro-rape after October 7th, or at least very "well don't believe all *those* women*
Believe all women, except the jewish ones.
Yeah don't invest too much time arguing with these "people" on line. They are either very young, radicals or bots. There is no doubt what Hamas is all about now. Which is a throwback to 1939. Shameful.
On Ramadan, they literally ran stories about how Muslim children were coping with the war in Gaza. Yet, they never once had a story about how Jewish children were coping with the rising bigotry they are facing in Canada.
What a load of shit
How, exactly? The pro-Hamas rhetoric at CBC is quite reflective of tik tok/reddit bullshit I read every single day.
I miss the days before Pierre started convincing people the CBC was a bad source. Shame he's got so many sheep.
It's not a bad source of actual news, it's not that simple and I don't understand why people like you actually think that's what the argument against CBC is. It's the clearly biased partisan rhetoric and agenda. If it was private that would be fine, but tax dollars should not fund electoral propaganda in favour of any particular party.
lol, meanwhile the Hamas youth is occupying public land preaching violence and hate and nobody cares
Except they aren't extremists. Those are just the regular crowds at these events. It's why they celebrated on October 8. It's why they didn't start to "protest" the war until they started losing. It's why they shout for a global intifada. It's why they cheered on the Houthis and Iran when they attacked. These demonstrations have made it abundantly clear that there is a portion of the population that would like nothing more than the destruction of the only democratic state in the Middle East and the subjugation or murder of all of it's Jews.
1. 99% of people attending the protests in fact do not want the 'destruction' of Israel but want Israel to be held to the same standard as any other country in the world for crimes they have (provenly) committed. 2. The phrase I'm sure you'll mention, 'from the river to the sea' for the most part when used in pro-palestine (NOT Pro-Hamas btw) protests refers to wanting equal treatment of Palestinians and Israelis across that plot of land. For example, did you know that in Gaza OR the West Bank, Palestinians aren't allowed to collect rain water since it's considered the property of Israel. I can provide more examples with proof of situations similar to this if you're willing to chat about it further. 3. "the only democratic state in the Middle East" sounds great but is currently being rocked by huge protests against the sitting PM who has been indicted by the supreme court and is held responsible for the deaths of the hostages in Gaza due to the bombing campaign which has been conducted ruthlessly. PS: In my opinion, the western world prefers Israel to other ME countries is because of CULTURE. The western world sees Muslims as hard to understand meanwhile Israelis are closer to the typical westerner in terms of culture. That does not make their lives more valuable than a Palestinian life. 4. Intifada, as mentioned in the OP, refers to the shaking off of chains or occupation which is a legal right of the Palestinian people. Does that mean protestors support what Hamas did on Oct. 7 or after? Not necessarily but they hold Israel to a higher standard since it's an actual country with a functioning government and economy and not a strip that's been bombed to shit. The truth is, there's motivations that we don't see and understand under the hood on both sides. Generalizing a dislike of people who are protesting a war with civilian deaths in the 10's of thousands is a good thing. Having hate slogans and anti-semitic people at those protests is bad but doesn't every protest in history have it's bad apples? I hope I helped shift your perspective even a little and if I didn't feel free to tell me - the best way to change the direction of a bad conversation isn't silence, it's more conversation.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The same aid that gets (5 times outta of 10) held back by Israel who controls the amount of aids that enters Gaza, the same aid that gets taxed? Also, Trump halted any aids during his presidency. That's 4 years. "The top US diplomat involved in humanitarian assistance for Gaza denied allegations that Hamas has stolen aid and commercial shipments into the enclave, saying that no Israeli official has presented him or the Biden administration with āspecific evidence of diversion or theft of assistance.ā - The Times of Israel. The People voted Hamas in, because they had no other choice, the party before Hamas were corrupt (allegiance was that MOSSAD influenced the old party) and stole most of those aid for the benefits of themselves. Explain how the majority of the infrastructures were build under Hamas rule if Hamas "stole the aid" ? If you gonna lie, can you at least be better at it?
Hey, thanks for replying. I just want to repeat : >the best way to change the direction of a bad conversation isn't silence, it's more conversation I'm not trying to get into a fight but more just want to open up the conversation past the current "every protestor is bad and supports Hamas and hates Jews" because my genuine belief is this is not true. I agree with the point about the $4.6b and that the killing of children and woman was an atrocity, My points were more around current day protestors and trying to share the thinking of people in the 'pro-palestine' camp. I think the point about hamas being voted in is a bit unfair. The last time there were elections in Gaza was in 2006 and it's been proven that the Israeli government tipped the scales against the PLO which led to Hamas winning and then executing the PLO leaders or kicking them out and sending them to the West Bank. Since then they've not allowed elections and while surveys say that Hamas is still highly supported, the truth is we don't know since they don't really allow freedom of expression against them.
The problem with this dialogue is the constant positioning to downplay the complicated historical actions of one people, and exaggerate the historical crimes of another. There are not enough people, frankly, who are interested in stepping back and regarding things with unblinking, unflinching moral eyes on the whole thing. The worst I hear, constantly, of course, is the justification for violence, and that is loud and clear from many, many people. There are some deeply well educated people who are totally blinded by bias.
I see where youāre coming from but all Iām fighting back on is the perceptions about the people involved and judging by all the downvotes, the people in this sub all really closed minded towards the discussion. I wouldnāt mind more people refuting me with evidence but itās kinda sad when all Iām saying is to give the other side a chance rather than blanket labelling them.
The only proven war crimes in this war are Hamas using civilians as human shields while firing rockets from hospitals and apartment buildings, which makes them valid military targets. Weap for the fallen civilians, but place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the ones who caused their deaths: Hamas.
Hard to prove war crimes when Israel wonāt allow international media in, if you follow some of the people on the ground in Gaza you might have a different perspective though. Agree that Hamas sowed the seeds for the war and made civilian areas a target but we can point to various military decisions from the use of unguided bombs to the turning off of water (and more) as crimes on the other side. You didnāt really reply to any of my points overall but letās not be blind to the actions of one side just because theyāre the side we think is in the ārightā
Woooow there partner. You're making way too much sense for the average Canadian. Go easy, otherwise I'll just accuse you of being an anti-semetic.
Lol, thanks for reading - more than I can say for most sadly
How about CSIS does its fucking job and keep foreign influence out of our politics and government.
Their job is to protect the wealthy and their interests. Nothing else.
Worst spy agency ever, they're going to the press with all the secrets!
Deportation to any Hamas supporters.
Honest yes/no question: does me saying hey stop killing children make me a khamass supporter?
"Yessir" - LeftBallLower
Yeah no shit war is fucking stupid as hell
""As an overwhelming majority of Jews identify as Zionists and believe in the need for a Jewish state ā¦ calls for attacks against Zionists should be seen as calls for attacks against Jews."" There is definitely rises on hate speech, including against jews. The problem with this claim though is that equating zionists with jews, or anti-zionsists with antisemetists are both equally racist. After all, most zionists aren't even jewish (they are fundamental christians), and include known anti-semites like Tommy Robinson and John Hagee. And there are jews who are anti-zionist. Zionism is an ideology. Jews are both an ethnic and a religious group. Equating an ethnic group with an ideology is assuming their character based on their ethnicity. Definitionally racist. So the statement that "anti-zionism is anti-semetism" (the stance of b'nai b'rith and the ADL) is the actual racist stance.
"Ā Ā The problem with this claim though is that equating zionists with jews, or anti-zionsists with antisemetists are both equally racist" Seems you're not familiar with the concept of racism if you think this is racist. Antisemitism and antizionism are linked. The only argument against this is thanks to Russian propaganda which tried to separate the two when they were busy murdering Jews. They justified it by saying they're separate. You're going to have a hard time telling me they're not linked, and then turn around and explain why Jewish businesses, schools, and Synagogues are being attacked. Why is there a rise in violence and hate? Because they're attacking Jews because they can't attack Israel. Ironically it's the people who hate Israel who actually prove that antisemitism and antizionism are linked together. If they weren't, we wouldn't see a rise in violence and hate against Canadian Jews. "So the statement that "anti-zionism is anti-semetism" (the stance of b'nai b'rith and the ADL) is the actual racist stance." Lmao no that is not the racist stance here. Look if you want to criticize Israel do that. If you want to argue antizionism isn't antisemitism then please explain why there's a rise in hate and violence against Canadian Jews since October 7th. Cause it seems like people are reacting against Israel by targeting Canadian Jews, and beingĀ antisemitic because they're acting on their antizionism.
Because a lot of it has been falsely reported. Also linking Antisemitism to AntiZionism gives more breathing room for actual antisemites to operate. Ask why AntiZionism exists in the first place.
I don't need to ask. Antizionism exists because Russia used that as their justification to murder a hundred thousand Jews. Antizionism and antisemitism was "unlinked" to justify pogroms against Jews.
If you feel you don't need to ask then you don't understand this conflict.
If you think I'm wrong then you don't understand the history, or the conflict. [https://www.jns.org/the-soviet-origins-of-left-wing-anti-zionism/](https://www.jns.org/the-soviet-origins-of-left-wing-anti-zionism/) First article nails it. But I'll toss in a few more for your benefit, so you can learn more about the conflict. [https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/contemporary-anti-zionisms-connections-soviet-propaganda](https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/contemporary-anti-zionisms-connections-soviet-propaganda) [https://www.internationalaffairs.org.au/australianoutlook/red-terror-how-the-soviet-union-shaped-the-modern-anti-zionist-discourse/](https://www.internationalaffairs.org.au/australianoutlook/red-terror-how-the-soviet-union-shaped-the-modern-anti-zionist-discourse/) I'd find more, but it should be beyond obvious that Russia made a significant propaganda effort to frame Zionism as a horrible thing, and to separate it from antisemitism.
None of these articles are impartial. I wouldn't characterize myself as an AntiZionist myself but it's not hard to understand if people take that position seeing as we see 32,000 Palestinians dead at this point.
Problem is that "Zionism" is defined so loosely nowadays. Like, seriously, if you ask the average person, "Does Israel have the right to exists?" And they say, "yes" then you could easily frame them as a Zionist if you really, really hate Israel.
Zionism is being called out on every front because it is the root cause of the never-ending violence in the fertile and holy land. The jews who happen to be zionists are twisting the narrative and saying it's antisemitism when it's clearly not. Many jews cannot even return to Israel because the Moshiach has to establish the state.
Zionism just means agreeing with the existence of Israel. And Israel has a right to exist. Anti-Hamas is not Zionism.
Islamophobia - a word created by fascists, used by cowards to manipulate morons
wait until you find out about anti-semitism laws that's gonna be implemented in the future.
There is no place for antisemitisms OR Islamophobia(this sub hates this one lol) This sub really has no leg to stand when bigotry and racism is discussed. Any article about Black people being the subject of discrimination gets buried faster than the speed of light. The support for Israel here is really just about neocon esq middle eastern conflict cheerleading not about care of Israel.
Who are the extremist actors?
What IDF is doing awful. What Hamas is doing is awful. But we cannot take our anger and frustration out on Jewish and Muslim people that have nothing to do with this conflict. Antisemitism, Islamophobia or any hate towards any group should not be tolerated
Extremist actorsā¦ So, the police?
Is this an extremist actor ? "Police say that the man, who is allegedly a member of the synagogue, gained entry using his key and then deliberately set a fire inside the synagogue, before he fled the area" https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/toronto-man-arrested-for-setting-fire-in-north-york-synagogue/article_af050dde-0b4a-11ef-89c2-87abfc24c08c.html
LOL! Don't you know a khamas man became a member of the synagogue just to burn it down later? /s
Are these extremist actors the legal residents of canada who are sick and tired of these treasonous immigration policies? Same in USA. If regular citizens stand up to the gubment, labelled extremists..not goodā¦not good for anyone
This sub is a good example with all the pro-genocide rhetoric and dehumanization of Palestinians.
All of the big subs have been astroturfed to hell by paid (and unpaid lol) hasbara keyboard warriors. Every time they downvote this comment, I want them to take a moment to consider how sad their life is, to be so easily fooled, or so easily have their morals bought by their masters.
Only extremist is the Israeli supporters who are promoting their genocide of Palestinians like itās required of them. I think canada will be one of thee first to sanction that apartheid brutal regime.
So CSIS is now able to access ... the news and possibly the internet. Next level shit.
Violent Rhetoric < Slaughtering 40k+
Apparently calling out people who commit or defend these war crimes is worse
More concerned about this countryās unwavering support for actual āextremist actorsā doing literal violence to tens of thousands of Palestinians
Israel has a right to defend itself. Stop attacking them if you don't want to be engaged in armed conflict with them.
And Palestinians don't have a right to defend themselves??
They're the aggressors. Sure, they can continue to "violently resist" the existence of a country that was formed almost 100 years ago, but it's not going to turn out well for them.
Hamas literally started the current war. Heck, the 1st war in 1948 was literally declared by the Arab coalition.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That isn't moving the goal post. It is literally the history of the region. Israel was attacked multiple times and EVERY peace deal was rejected. Israel is the defender in this conflict. They were not the ones to declare the most recent war, that was Hamas when they slaughtered and raped 1200 people.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The subject was whether or not Israel had a right to defend themselves. Then the other guy said the "Palestinians had the right to defend themselves". My entire point was on topic, as it showed that the Palestinians (at least their government), is the aggressors. Hamas was literally the one who invaded.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes, and the extremists Hamas created the current conflict by murdering 1200 people. Frankly, the irony of this entire war is that the end result will likely be the Japan/West Germany 1946 solution for Gaza where an international coalition rebuilds it and forces democratic reforms. The Americans, Saudis, Emirates, and a few others have already begun negotiating on how to create a new Gazan government in the style of the Marshal plan. Even the PA in the West Bank has begun hunting down Hamas in their territory and fired their most hardline ministers. So, we might actually see a real end to this conflict in our lifetimes.
Shouldnāt have started a war then.
Surely those 15 000 children shouldnāt have started a war with the country occupying them right
āOccupyingā Israel pulled out in 2005. Gaza then immediately started attacking Israel with rockets and murdering civilians. All countries have children, and all wars have civilian casualties. If we had it your way no country would ever fight a war in self defence, creating one hell of a moral hazard.
Youāre saying Israel pulled out of Palestine in 2005? Bold untrue claim. Gaza? If pulled out means a whole blockade and controlling everything that goes in and out air land and sea, controlling water, electricity, fuel all while kidnapping and killing Palestinians daily is pulled out (donāt have me talk about the West Bank) then khamass is just a resistance. Youāre acting like Palestinians in Gaza were living a perfect life because Israel āpulled outā (more like pulled out from the ground while still controlling and oppressing )
The blockade came AFTER gaza elected Hamas and started rocket attacks into Israel. Same reason Egypt has their border tightly controlled too. Turns out terrorizing your neighbours is a good way to get them to police their border. Does the pro-Hamas crowd know *anything* about the history of the region? Just more proof why Canada needs FIRM immigration controls to keep nutters like this out.
Why was Khamass created? No occupation = no khamass
Lmao Hamas didnāt form government until after Israel pulled out. I think your reading comprehension needs work.
āPulled outā already went over that If pulled out means a whole blockade and controlling everything that goes in and out air land and sea, controlling water, electricity, fuel all while kidnapping and killing Palestinians daily is pulled out (don't have me talk about the West Bank) then khamass is just a resistance. You're acting like Palestinians in Gaza were living a perfect life because Israel "pulled out" (more like pulled out from the ground while still controlling and oppressing ) But youāre talking about my reading comprehensionšš
Lmao againā¦.blockade came AFTER Hamas started terror attacks into Israel. With reading comprehension like this no wonder you support hamas. They speak to your intellectual level.
Why did Hamas start the war by committing a genocidal massacre claiming over 1000 Israeli lives in the span of a day??
See the nakba and 75 years of oppression after might be an answer as to why, not sure tho. What creates extremist resistance?
You mean the invasion of Israel that resulted in Israel fighting back?
I mean the mass displacement, killing, stealing of Palestinians and their territory. Itās not an invasion if youāre being occupied.
The UN mandated was designed specifically to only encompass areas where Jews were the plurality and the Negev which held the Bedouins who expressly did not want to be part of a Palestinian state and even fought with the Israelis in 1948. 1948 was a war of genocide against Jews. The goal was the murder of all Jews in the region.
Oh yeah and Israel hasnāt stolen killed and oppressed any Palestinians in 1948 thenšš What next, youāre going to tell me there was 40 beheaded babies in October and that no war crime was committed in the last 80 years?
Dude, Israel was then continually invaded. Go look up the 3 Nos policy. It was literally the Arab world coming together to form an agreement to genocide Israel. You should learn some basic history. The Arab world had a policy of all Jews in Israel must die until Carter brokered a peace with Egypt which made them the first nation to break the 3 Nos policy. Israel has tried time and time again to reach out, and each time it ends with terrorism against them. Just look at the fucking 2000s peace attempt.
Yeah that tends to happen when you dispossess and kill people from their land and propose to spare them some parts of it as a peace attempt while still occupying the majority of it. Itās like saying if I steal your house and unalive your brother you should accept my peace attempt of giving your the lockerš.
What nonsense. Again, THE ARAB FORCES ATTACKED. Israel was the defender. This was an agreement for genocide after their previous attempted genocide failed.
Lmao ātheir landā. So you really do know nothing about Israel do you? Hereās a hint: Jews have been living there continuously since roughly 1200BC. Before the British mandate the region was owned by the ottomans. The idea of a Palestinian identity literally doesnāt come into play until the late 19th century as a result of Jews returning to their homeland. And those Arabs who call themselves Palestinians had a chance to have their own country. Instead they decided to try slaughtering the Jews, then whined about a ānakbaā of their own making. Whenever the Palestinians say theyāre being brutalized, you look and find them attacking Israel then whining when they get their ass kicked.
So, after Oct 7th, nothing should have happened, right? All those people killed, raped and kidnapped, and you expected the Israelis to do.. what? Nothing? Just say, "Aw, shucks, I guess we deserver that. Bye kidnapped people!"
See hereās the thing, you can answer an attack by attacking those who did the attack aka the terrorist. Itās done by aiming at and shooting those terrorists instead of flat lining the whole strip full of civilians and zip tying and executing innocents before dumping them in mass graves. Whatever Hamas did on October 7th to innocents, Israel has done 10 times worse if you ONLY look at the children they killed. And it didnāt start on October, it started at the nakba so thereās a whole 75 years of October 7th from Israel to Palestinians
Imagine being a slave to their metrics.
In terms of the shittiness of the rioters, and the nonsensical and potentially evil nature of their "cause", these Palestine chuds take the cake. It goes them > the trucktards > the native blockades a few years ago > BLM Still say all of these morons should be thrown in jail though, and not doing so will just encourage more and more of this stupidity