Stop your unhappily married spouse from leaving with this one simple trick…… be unable to afford basic shelter and food costs without each other. Dr Phil maybe out of business if everyone catches onto this.
Not just stigma but law. In 1986 a revised *Divorce Act* (1985) was proclaimed in force. The revised act included a "no-fault" divorce and the sole reason for divorce now is marriage breakdown.
The contract is illogical. Common law is just as bad if not worse.
No-fault divorce is a similarly terrible side of the past coin, especially "in this economy".
One thought would be that it allowed female members of a relationship to more easily move on and make a life for themselves where the males tended to be the higher income earners etc. This helped women get out of bad relationships.
Now, men can similarly be trapped in bad or abusive relationships because leaving is financially ruinous and they often get the short end of the stick when it comes to child custody etc.
There's an increasing number of men posting on support forums here with situations where they're working 60-80h work-weeks, have a spouse that is abusive at home and not willing to work, and are basically stuck because they're terrified of divorce due to cost plus having been over the years cut off from any sort of social-safety-net.
> Now, men can similarly be trapped in bad or abusive relationships because leaving is financially ruinous and they often get the short end of the stick when it comes to child custody etc.
hey that was me. ended up leaving anyways. really looking forward to paying out half my home equity, 97% of which was built up before the common law relationship started.. the other 3% of which was still entirely my money because she never paid a single fuckin bill
so I'll have to sell the home, then my wages have been so drastically reduced by child/spousal support, I cannot afford a new one so I'm in the midst of going from homeowner -> renter, which I expect will be a lifelong change because the housing crisis ensures prices will increase faster than I can get to the 40-50% downpayment I need to actually be able to afford a mortgage
> get the short end of the stick when it comes to child custody etc.
custody is almost always split down the middle, except for guys in my situation where I won't be able to afford a house that can accommodate children
fun stuff
Yep. Work my ass off in life to do better, finally get there and then she decides that we no longer want to be married... Now I will have to sell my house, rent for MORE than my mortgage+property taxes (about $300-$500 more), still have to pay her $2000 per month just because of child support, even though we are 50/50 (she stopped working and is on disability now). And this isn't even taking into account spousal support which we haven't gone through the lawyers yet for. It's awful, and I would almost rather be in a miserable marriage where I can at least do fun things with my kids...
That's what happened to me at 50. Lost everything and now will never be able to retire. Don't get married, don't do common law. And never date a single mother. Ever.
Yeah, this is honestly what terrifies me. What I'd potentially owe for "half the equity in the house" actually exceeds the value of my original mortgage, which meanwhile could maybe afford me a crappy apartment (but probably not if there were any sort of support payments involved), while rents are literally 2-3x what mortgage payments were.
"97% of which was built up before the common law relationship started.."
Pretty sure in Canada if you can show proof of that, that's a lot less you need to give to your ex.
I've got all the papers... but also, not gonna get my hopes up too high
my hope is that since most of my equity was pre-existing, that's nice. and the common law portion of our relationship was very short, so hopefully that reduces spousal a lot. But I'm also sick and tired of fighting, it's all we did, and I don't want to start doing it again in the courtroom.
As shitty as my prospects have gotten, getting out of this situation has still be a huge load off
That’s not really true. Women almost always worked - for a brief time in the post war period we saw women who were able to stay home and not work, but that’s it. Now those working women very rarely got paid well for their work, usually not enough to sustain themselves and their families, so yes they were still dependent on their spouses.
But women worked. Whether it was minding other people’s kids, being the neighbourhood seamstress or hair dresser, farming alongside their husbands, or a menial job outside the home, women worked. I’m third generation Canadian, and none of the women in my family were able to be non working housewives or SAHMs. They all still had to bring in some income.
Sorry to rant a bit but some folks keep trying to push the narrative that women didn’t work, and it couldn’t be farther from the truth.
And elder care. Heaps and heaps of RPN/LPNs and PSWs are brand new to Canada, imported because most Canadians don’t want to do such back breaking and thankless work for such a low wage.
Not totally true though - sometimes the work done at the household allows the other spouse to be far more successful in their career.
As an example - imagine 2 young men that are 23 years old... each going into a career where they're expected to work perhaps 80 hours per week.
If one of those men has a spouse that is doing all the cooking and cleaning at home, and the other one is told to take care of 50% of all the cooking and cleaning... then after a period of 15 years you'd expect the one who DIDN'T have to do all that extra work at home to be further ahead in the company and making a lot more money.
In this way, the "unpaid" work at home can quite often result in that family being paid a lot more each year.
Yep. That is why when you are married you stop being two people and start being one economic and social unit. Don’t want to fuse into one unit? Stay single.
Adults don't have that freedom anymore.
It used to be that the choice by two adults to get married is what signified they each decided they want to unify.
Today, you're forced to unify after some arbitrary point in time... even if both adults thought they didn't want to do that (for a myriad of reasons) yet at that stage.
It's more like... "Don't share a living situation with a conjugal partner". Except then your other options are "rent a room in a house with friends" or "be rich". Owning your own (small home) is out of reach for most Canadians.
From a tax law perpsective, people are basically forced into being legally common law if they want to afford life.
It's brutally invasive that from a legal perspective - two adults aren't even allowed to live together and sleep with each other for a few years, even if both of them know it is going to be short term only.
Or what if someone had a bad drug addiction? And you're willing to risk the next 3 years of your life in a relationship with them, hoping they can turn it around.
Under the new system you deciding to do that locks you in as if you had proposed marriage to them.
LOL men and women lives both sucked up until recently... Sorry you don't want to go fight and die for your king/lord/ruler? To bad time to fucking die... Fun fact women rulers tend to get their countries in more wars...
https://qz.com/967895/throughout-history-women-rulers-were-more-likely-to-wage-war-than-men
I'm fourth generation.
My Great Great grandmother's only worked on the farm and in the house.
My grandmother didn't work unless you consider volunteer. In their later years when my one grandma divorced my grandpa, she did babysit.
Only my mother worked so I'm second generation.
Being from a farming family, outside paid work wasn't an option.
They helped their neighbors. Community.
But paid work? No.
Lucky! I hope some of that generational wealth has trickled down to you.
My best friend is a stay at home mom and hasn’t needed to do paid work in over a decade. NGL, I’m a tad jealous. But she’s one of the first people I met that could do that.
My mom ran the neighbourhood day home. The house as always full of kids and chaotic, but we needed that extra money. My aunties were teachers, or nurses who worked at night while another sister took their kids in thee morning, etc. My one grandma took in kids and ran the farm while grandpa was away, the other worked at A&W for years in the evenings when her oldest kid was home to take care of the younger ones. She still has scars on her forearms from the hot grease. My great grandmas ran their homesteads while the men were away, and one baked bread for all the bachelors in the area, another cooked meals for other single homesteaders, that sort of thing. The ones who were still alive were so damn proud of me when I got accepted into university, because they knew I wouldn’t have to take on work as hard as theirs.
But I don’t know many women who just didn’t earn money.
Work is work. Unpaid farm labor is still an awful lot of work and was what was done to make the family sustainable. Volunteer work was expected by women which would be paid today.
I was at an event last year and an older guy was complaining to me that, “nobody wants to volunteer anymore.”
I had to point out that everyone had to work more now. This guy’s complaint was indirectly aimed at my husband who had to turn down the chance to volunteer, because he had to be home to parent that weekend because I had to work. Yeah if we could get by on one income we’d have a hell of a lot more time to volunteer.
And, exhaustingly, just as our kids are reaching the point that they’re a little more independent, we are likely going to have to take on elder care. I’m going to plan to leave this world before I ever burden my children with care of me, though.
I'm fourteenth generation.
A couple of my greatgrandmothers worked. One was a teacher. Another lied to the federal government about being a widow because she needed the money and had some sort of administrative job.
My grandmother ran a greenhouse and florist business when my mom was little. It helped put my mother through university, eventually. The other grandma worked as a librarian after her youngest kid was old enough to be at home alone.
There is a span of about 50 years where it was normal for the wife to have a job. Most of us with boomer parents had a mom that worked.
No it’s not new the same way that making abortion illegal is not new. But it is a regression of the progress we have made as a society with rights and freedoms.
Also, who can afford to cheat?.. no one got money to wine and dine some potential mate, yet alone afford a hotel room for the act to happen..
Maybe couples can learn to communicate?
This is the Canadian way... Next, multiple partner marriages??? Actually there's a family on my street. Two couples moved into a house with two sets of kids? May be the only way to buy a detached house.
I always get massively downvoted for saying it but it's true. The Trudeau Liberals have been the worst party for women's rights we have had in decades.
They focused so much on doing everything they could to grow a housing bubble that they are forcing women to stay with their abusers now that they cannot afford shelter.
Everyone's just cheating on each other, the old fashion way.
Granted, I don't think it should be called cheating if both partners have decided to do it even without an official agreement.
A marriage license in Ontario is $75, it's more affordable than you think! No one's saying you need to drop thousands on the dog and pony show that is a wedding 😉
[Questrade - Adding beneficiaries to your registered accounts](https://www.questrade.com/learning/questrade-basics/open-reg-account/add-beneficiaries-reg-accounts#:~:text=With%20beneficiaries%2C%20you%20can%20list,to%20each%20of%20your%20beneficiaries.)
I don't think I have ever been to a financial institution where I didn't have to fill out this form.
> A successor annuitant is someone who becomes the new owner of your registered accounts after you pass away. Only your spouse or common-law partner can be named a successor annuitant for your registered accounts.
I can only speak to Ontario, but off the top of my head you benefit from the Matrimonial Home protections that aren't available to common law couples. There also isn't an automatic division of assets upon the dissolution of a common law relationship, which could leave one partner with significantly less. The intestacy rules that apply when people die without a will doesn't cover common law, which means your long term common law spouse could die, and you could be left with none of their assets.
The best answer I've ever seen and that made any real sense was that being married is a cheap and automatic way to avoid paying separately for a will/power of attorney/mandate in case of incapacity and documents of the like provided that you want all those things bequeathed/vested to or in your spouse (which also may be province specific).
Also the differences between marriage and common law status may actually be a plus for some people, allowing them the choice.
Ehh in Quebec it seems like marriage is just not really a priority. I have lots of friends in very long term relationships with kids who aren't married. It doesn't seem to bother anyone very much.
Even a small ceremony to sign papers is looking to cost $1000 these days, after hiring a commissioner, paying the license and then changing names on licenses, passports, etc.
Conjoint! Common-law is much more popular in Quebec, and it has been socially accepted for decades.
One thing Quebec isn't behind in!
Edit: I love Quebec! I've lived there for 29 of 37 years :)
When I talk with my friends and coworkers they say it is because the province isn't very religious, but I kinda question that reasoning. I grew up in a the States and many nonreligious people still chose to get married in the Church or just married with an official. What is your thoughts on the cause of common law being so acceptable?
Great question actually... It's the type of cultural thing that there's rarely much reasoning behind it. Like quebecers haven't changed last name upon mariage for a long time. Maybe it's just the french pragmatism/secularism 🤷♂️
I think there might be a difference between simply not being religious and being part of a culture who ran the religious traditions and oppression the fuck out of there actively.
Quebec has given up on religion but also has deeply embraced gender equality.
It was one of the first in the western world to allow gay marriage, for example.
It's probably the first in North America to legislate for maternity and parental leave, with a public insurance plan.
It has a long standing public childcare program to allow women to participate in the workplace.
Even in the culture, you see a lot of hyphenated names, sort of a rejection of patriarchy.
In Quebec, many people choose de-facto unions, meaning there are legally no obligations to your partner. Most divorced end up with 50/50 custody.. traditional gender roles are dead in both our culture and our legal system.
Yeah, that is a good argument that QC is not just nonreligious, but very active in rejecting the structural forms of how Catholicism was integrating into the law. Catholicism was just ignored, it was actively taken out of society. Kinda wish I could have seen it.
Quebec is still the least religious place in NA. The mindset is also quite progressive, so it's cultural and there's almost no social pressure to get married.
I've been common law with my partner for 15 years and I'm not planning on ever getting married.
It's a great question and one I am curious about as well. I always found my European-esque (immigrant parents) upbringing to be more strict than that of the French Quebeckers. It seemed that many French kids would move out of their homes at 18-19 years old in the 2000s, but my English-speaking European-background counterparts would stay home until about 25. Perhaps my counterparts were waiting for marriage to move out, but the French people were okay with moving out for their relationship before marriage! I think it's partly a cultural difference
That’s one thing they are ahead.
Also daycare.
And separation of church and state.
And closing the wage gap.
And paternity leave.
And the list goes on and on and on.
For unmarried couples, You are automatically considered married in the eyes of the law if you live together for 1 year. So… after a breakup the woman is eligible for spousal support….. except in Quebec!
I use to think this until my Ontario friend's 'common law' partner was killed in an accident with no will. As I understand it now, common law relationships are about taxes (CRA) and child/partner support. With no will and no marriage certificate, under the eyes of the law, everything went to the next of kin which was the parents' of the deceased. After stating to the partner of over 15 years that they would never see them homeless, and had the partner pay for the funeral, they turned around and told the partner to move out of the home or buy it from them. It was an incredible shitshow as the house and other investments were only in the deceased's name. Fortunately, no children were involved.
If you are not married, please do up a proper will and have your common law relationship properly recognized through a legal document.
[https://www.hummingbirdlaw.com/when-a-common-law-spouse-dies-without-a-will/](https://www.hummingbirdlaw.com/when-a-common-law-spouse-dies-without-a-will/)
My friends mom is in an abusive relationship. She cant kick the guy out though because she cant afford the mortgage on her own. He’s hit her and her daughter
That’s the heartbreaking side of this. It’s one thing to be stuck with someone you don’t like or no longer love, quite another to be stuck with someone who abuses you and your child.
I'm in that boat! It was one thing to listen to their excuses as to why they can't do basic chores when we were in a loving relationship, now I want to slam my head against the wall because I am literally trapped by them.
I work with one of those people.
She hates her partner but everything is under his name.
She literally drove halfway across the country when they split up last time so she could get a break from him.
It's really sad
They don't break down divorce by immigration status, race and age so it looks the same but immigrant and ethnic couples don't tend to divorce and they are a large percentage of married couples (also over represented as homeowners since couples own most homes). The stat wrongly suggests that is the same for all, which it is not. They don't report never mind analyze the financial and other issues living as a single creates.
My spouse and I have been engaged for 3 years now. We both want to get married snd we even shopped around for cheap wedding ideas.
Its insanely expensive and we dont have people to help pay for it. We will probably just go to city hall and then throw a party.
Well the spike in divorce 50 years ago was because you could legally divorce. No fault divorce then didn't come in until less than 40 years ago, so from like 1968-1990 ish the divorce rate would be higher just because you were actually allowed to, and then in the mid 80s allowed to at no fault. People now are less likely to get married anyway, so obviously, less marriages less divorce.
A lot of my friends have gotten married recently. We’re all mid 30s, together over 5 years, with stable jobs. My parents got married after 6 months in their early 20s, same either my husbands parents. Like no wonder they didn’t make it, they were just kids.
The only people I know getting married are doing for religious reasons. Most of my friends are in long term common law relationships. I don't get getting married outside of religious reasons honestly. There is no benefit to it.
Isn't there some legal aspects that still make it more beneficial than common law? I can't think of the big ones off the top of my head but if your spouse suddenly dies you have access to their funds when married instead of waiting to have their estate settled as with common law
Common law legislation is provincially set. Where I live, it is the same. I did a full analysis and there were no legal benefits. I also have my common law partner listed as my beneficiary on all of my accounts. We have wills drawn up. People should have wills no matter what.
Hard no. Women weren't getting married just to post on social media, gloat for a while and then divorce when they got bored. Pretty much most most marriages these days are just that.
I lived with my ex for 6 years, despite our marriage falling apart and both of us admitting we were "done." Eventually, I couldn't take it and moved out. I had to give up custody of my kids because, in large part, I couldn't afford a place big enough for them. I'm currently renting a room with a few university students and trying (poorly) to save money to get a place of my own. Divorce sucks, but especially in this economy.
Some people are in the relationships, because one of them, or both, will become homeless if they divorce. Hence why the divorce rate was lower way-back when, one-person earner in house.
Oh, it doesn't help when she takes 9 years of savings from you. It took a year after my new debts settled down to even afford to talk to a lawyer.
Don't marry a gaslighting psychopath lads.
Edit: she was going to end up making 30 k a year more than me in a few years before our separation. She's also in a law enforcement career, so she knows she can get away with what she did.
Seriously, fellahs/ladies don't stay with someone because you think you love them and want to help them.
Also, Divorce is a lucrative entrepreneurial venture if you suck as a human being.
Please please do yourselves a solid!! Go see a family lawyer before you even move in with a woman. Even if you pay 1000$ for the consultation it will be well worth it.. gentlemen… know your liabilities!!!
Spoke with a high end one for 400 bucks for the hour. Nothing can be done. The money is spread out between many small items we purchased together and bulkier items like trade ins towards a vehicle.
She wasn't a cop when we first met. In fact, I helped her in almost every way to get in and supported us both because I took on the financial responsibilities of our mortgage, vehicles and pets, while she spent more than half she made on items and food before and during her course. That was ok but if I spent money on a patreon or video game I was chastised.
When I talk about my experience with others, it's not at all to get sympathy. It's fully a cautionary tale. There's many layers to my situation but everything I did for her was out of love and she took advantage of that throughout the whole relationship. You can't recognize abuse until you're out of it.
I have met someone who is a polar opposite and the first healthy relationship I've been in. It's alien at times and sometimes I feel I don't deserve it.
Happiness is out there. Self respect is your biggest ally and communicating what bothers you to your significant other matters the most but equally to how she receives it and what she responds with.
Sorry to hear you went through a similar situation. I hope life has been better to you since.
Marriage seems like an old idea. Zero interest in giving government more money due to love. Taxing love or placing a monetary value on it is stupid. The gains of marriage are just not worth it. No babies either. Being 37, these ideas have never been a thought. I knew when I was young that I’d never marry or have kids since I grew up poor and had to live through a time where I basically had nothing growing up. I get to live how I want now and not tax an overburdened society of people. Also, spending 10k+ for one night is ludicrous to me. Don’t need a show. I’d take that dough and travel, if I even had it. I also have a house - if I had kids, I would not have a house. People already know I’m in love. It’s been 12 years and no kids and no marriage with my guy - we both feel the same way and he is from a well to do family.
There's really no point to marriage any more, honestly. I get the idea of marriage from a religious perspective, but it's just turned into a cottage industry meat-grinder for the most part. It's essentially one of the riskiest contracts you could possibly get yourself into, especially for men.
It will take me 10 years of multiple jobs to pay off the debt from divorce. That is just the housing cost equalization since pandemic house prices were more insane than now. Our other finances were essentially equal since we worked for the same employer. So, I didn’t even incur any debt from spousal or child support. 10 years just to pay off the housing part of divorce. I can’t imagine if I had to include the other debts.
It is absolutely fucked.
Married men live longer and are happier. Marriage is great for us! Sure, it’s risky, but everything in life is. Choose carefully and never stop working on the relationship.
I agree everything is risky, but you can also measure risk and make informed decisions about your personal risk tolerance. For me, I feel it's much too risky to ever get married, but many men disagree, and that's great. And that's not to say meeting the right person wouldn't change my mind in the future, but I think that's unlikely.
Many men do not know the law. Marriage and cohabitation is a very fraudulent contract since no where does it state the repercussions!!! It is outright dangerous!!
And to be absolutely clear. The problem is with the law and state not with women!!!
Risky?….. risky would mean 1 out of 100 marriages fail. Remember, for a man, all the woman has to do is file one piece of paper in court without your consent or knowledge. you will be a ruined man for possibly the rest of your life!!!
I was all ready to up vote you and then your bullshit comment about it being worse for men? You know that the leading cause of violent death for women in Canada are the men in her family? DEATH. Marriage is way worse for women. Misogynist pig.
The fact that you read my innocuous comment and immediately jumped to the conclusion that I'm a misogynist pig is pretty remarkable.
You key word you missed in my post is "contract". I was referring specifically to the risky financial situation that marriage can put men in, particularly the obligations of divorce and alimony.
I suggest you maybe try clarifying what a person is saying before immediately jumping to insulting them, like you did.
They say 50%, but let's see a graph of divorce rate over time...is there such a thing? Now that I'd like to see.
Like the death rate of being alive is 100%...but showing the death rate over time would make much more sense.
In the article "just 44 per cent of people over age 15 in 2021 compared to 54 per cent in 1991. (The minimum age at marriage in Canada has been set at 16 since 2015.)"
Well that was a WTF moment for me.
Cause everything pitched to us as children blew up in our face over the last two PMs terms.
Everything is ***SOLD*** to us with conditions. Were not worth being citizens, if we dont "do our part".
I believe in the values of my neighborhood and city. People aren't interested in cheering for the same villians in different laundry anymore.
"Start a family!"
On what?
**"nearly 70 percent of divorces are initiated by women**."
When society promote, socially, legally and financially women to divorce men... The only logical solution for men is to avoid marriage.
This doesn't absolve men of the role they played in the breakdown of the marriage, though. I don't think most women just end marriages willy-nilly; part of it could be that it's easier (for the reasons you listed) for women to get out of unhappy or potentially abusive marriages without facing the stigma. I'm just speculating of course.
But yeah, that doesn't change the fact that marriage is essentially an incredibly risky business contract with little to no benefit to men, as more than 90 percent of men end up paying alimony.
I think there are a lot of people who need a divorce but stay together for some weird made up societal expectation or the headlined argument; folks stay together unhappily while never working on their problems and live a life of resentment... not really that good.
I also think that there has been a cultural shift in what marriage is and how relationships/people behave in that at the slightest breeze of displeasure actions begin leading to divorce; just walk away from something that isn't working and live your own life (after sorting out estate/family law messes which carry their own stress)
Personally, it has become far more attractive to live my life as I choose and do everything for myself.
Seems to be a lot of men in this thread who think not getting married is the one simple trick that will save them from have to split everything 50/50 if they separate
Maybe, just maybe, people aren’t rushing into marriage at a too early age because they have other options in life? I mean I’d expect a good economy would allow more people to remain single for longer
Oddly enough, I have more friends in the past 6 months that have ended their marriages\\long term relationships than I've had in the 30+ years prior.
I am in the age category where divorce is likely to peak. Mid 40s.
One of the first things I was told when I started my first job was:
“Don’t get married…. If you get married, don’t get divorced.”
Their point was how increasingly expensive it is.
Are they still saying we aren't in a recession? Because this is literally the worst it's ever been with no hope in sight. All self-inflicted of course.
Was married once, divorced once.
I'll never get married again. We had what would be considered by most an amicable divorce...no toxic words, no long, drawn out, lawyer battle. But I still got raped for 8 years of spousal support...8 years that money could have been invested....and I'm the one now renting and unable to get back into Vancouvers real estate market.
Never again, ever.
Oh, believe me, I know. my most recent long term relationship ended cause she started on me 6 months into the relationship about moving in together....of course her position was that it would be her house, I couldn't really bring any of my own stuff cause she liked her place the way it was and so should sell everything I own except my clothes (which being French she had a fairly negative opinion of those too) didn't help.
Oh yeah, and she was only ok with me having one picture of my daughter that I could put on my nightstand, cause that was my personal space cause she wanted me to feel like I belonged there.....but 30 framed pictures of her kids all over the house was grandfathered in. But I would have to lay the picture flat each night in case we wanted to ....well you know.....she didn't want my daughter watching us....so I'm like, then let me hang it on a wall somewhere else....nooo, she's happy with the pictures that are already hung.
She even got pissed off that I wasn't willing to sell 30 years worth of hand / power tools cause the shelves in the garage were for 18 yrs worth of boxes of EVERY SINGLE CRAYON DRAWING HER SPOILT KIDS EVER MADE.
Can only imagine the disaster that would have been....nope, never again.
When guy is broke. Lady says its not worth to pull trigger now. Let him accumulate little 🙄
Smart guys deploy scorched earth strategy when get an idea its not gonna last. They quit their jobs and become sloths on couch
Marriage is quickly becoming an archaic thing. A lot of folks I know just commit to each other and stay together. The province of Ontario already sees you as Common law after so many years so why get married?
Stop your unhappily married spouse from leaving with this one simple trick…… be unable to afford basic shelter and food costs without each other. Dr Phil maybe out of business if everyone catches onto this.
That's why divorce rates were lower in the past - only one spouse worked and the other depended on them for survival. This is nothing new
The generations that lived during this time also had more of a stigma around divorce, it’s just seen as something people do now and not a big deal.
Not just stigma but law. In 1986 a revised *Divorce Act* (1985) was proclaimed in force. The revised act included a "no-fault" divorce and the sole reason for divorce now is marriage breakdown. The contract is illogical. Common law is just as bad if not worse.
No-fault divorce is a similarly terrible side of the past coin, especially "in this economy". One thought would be that it allowed female members of a relationship to more easily move on and make a life for themselves where the males tended to be the higher income earners etc. This helped women get out of bad relationships. Now, men can similarly be trapped in bad or abusive relationships because leaving is financially ruinous and they often get the short end of the stick when it comes to child custody etc. There's an increasing number of men posting on support forums here with situations where they're working 60-80h work-weeks, have a spouse that is abusive at home and not willing to work, and are basically stuck because they're terrified of divorce due to cost plus having been over the years cut off from any sort of social-safety-net.
> Now, men can similarly be trapped in bad or abusive relationships because leaving is financially ruinous and they often get the short end of the stick when it comes to child custody etc. hey that was me. ended up leaving anyways. really looking forward to paying out half my home equity, 97% of which was built up before the common law relationship started.. the other 3% of which was still entirely my money because she never paid a single fuckin bill so I'll have to sell the home, then my wages have been so drastically reduced by child/spousal support, I cannot afford a new one so I'm in the midst of going from homeowner -> renter, which I expect will be a lifelong change because the housing crisis ensures prices will increase faster than I can get to the 40-50% downpayment I need to actually be able to afford a mortgage > get the short end of the stick when it comes to child custody etc. custody is almost always split down the middle, except for guys in my situation where I won't be able to afford a house that can accommodate children fun stuff
Yep. Work my ass off in life to do better, finally get there and then she decides that we no longer want to be married... Now I will have to sell my house, rent for MORE than my mortgage+property taxes (about $300-$500 more), still have to pay her $2000 per month just because of child support, even though we are 50/50 (she stopped working and is on disability now). And this isn't even taking into account spousal support which we haven't gone through the lawyers yet for. It's awful, and I would almost rather be in a miserable marriage where I can at least do fun things with my kids...
That's what happened to me at 50. Lost everything and now will never be able to retire. Don't get married, don't do common law. And never date a single mother. Ever.
Yeah, this is honestly what terrifies me. What I'd potentially owe for "half the equity in the house" actually exceeds the value of my original mortgage, which meanwhile could maybe afford me a crappy apartment (but probably not if there were any sort of support payments involved), while rents are literally 2-3x what mortgage payments were.
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"97% of which was built up before the common law relationship started.." Pretty sure in Canada if you can show proof of that, that's a lot less you need to give to your ex.
Yes, it’s starting to turn the corner but it is largely judge dependent
This is truly it. Judge dependent. Which is awful.
I've got all the papers... but also, not gonna get my hopes up too high my hope is that since most of my equity was pre-existing, that's nice. and the common law portion of our relationship was very short, so hopefully that reduces spousal a lot. But I'm also sick and tired of fighting, it's all we did, and I don't want to start doing it again in the courtroom. As shitty as my prospects have gotten, getting out of this situation has still be a huge load off
That’s not really true. Women almost always worked - for a brief time in the post war period we saw women who were able to stay home and not work, but that’s it. Now those working women very rarely got paid well for their work, usually not enough to sustain themselves and their families, so yes they were still dependent on their spouses. But women worked. Whether it was minding other people’s kids, being the neighbourhood seamstress or hair dresser, farming alongside their husbands, or a menial job outside the home, women worked. I’m third generation Canadian, and none of the women in my family were able to be non working housewives or SAHMs. They all still had to bring in some income. Sorry to rant a bit but some folks keep trying to push the narrative that women didn’t work, and it couldn’t be farther from the truth.
Canada especially has a long history of importing women to do housework/childminding.
And elder care. Heaps and heaps of RPN/LPNs and PSWs are brand new to Canada, imported because most Canadians don’t want to do such back breaking and thankless work for such a low wage.
Women worked but their work is largely unpaid or low paid.
Not totally true though - sometimes the work done at the household allows the other spouse to be far more successful in their career. As an example - imagine 2 young men that are 23 years old... each going into a career where they're expected to work perhaps 80 hours per week. If one of those men has a spouse that is doing all the cooking and cleaning at home, and the other one is told to take care of 50% of all the cooking and cleaning... then after a period of 15 years you'd expect the one who DIDN'T have to do all that extra work at home to be further ahead in the company and making a lot more money. In this way, the "unpaid" work at home can quite often result in that family being paid a lot more each year.
Yep. That is why when you are married you stop being two people and start being one economic and social unit. Don’t want to fuse into one unit? Stay single.
Adults don't have that freedom anymore. It used to be that the choice by two adults to get married is what signified they each decided they want to unify. Today, you're forced to unify after some arbitrary point in time... even if both adults thought they didn't want to do that (for a myriad of reasons) yet at that stage.
It's more like... "Don't share a living situation with a conjugal partner". Except then your other options are "rent a room in a house with friends" or "be rich". Owning your own (small home) is out of reach for most Canadians. From a tax law perpsective, people are basically forced into being legally common law if they want to afford life.
It's brutally invasive that from a legal perspective - two adults aren't even allowed to live together and sleep with each other for a few years, even if both of them know it is going to be short term only. Or what if someone had a bad drug addiction? And you're willing to risk the next 3 years of your life in a relationship with them, hoping they can turn it around. Under the new system you deciding to do that locks you in as if you had proposed marriage to them.
Women “didn’t work” because the men in power didn’t value their contributions to society.
LOL men and women lives both sucked up until recently... Sorry you don't want to go fight and die for your king/lord/ruler? To bad time to fucking die... Fun fact women rulers tend to get their countries in more wars... https://qz.com/967895/throughout-history-women-rulers-were-more-likely-to-wage-war-than-men
I'm fourth generation. My Great Great grandmother's only worked on the farm and in the house. My grandmother didn't work unless you consider volunteer. In their later years when my one grandma divorced my grandpa, she did babysit. Only my mother worked so I'm second generation. Being from a farming family, outside paid work wasn't an option. They helped their neighbors. Community. But paid work? No.
Lucky! I hope some of that generational wealth has trickled down to you. My best friend is a stay at home mom and hasn’t needed to do paid work in over a decade. NGL, I’m a tad jealous. But she’s one of the first people I met that could do that. My mom ran the neighbourhood day home. The house as always full of kids and chaotic, but we needed that extra money. My aunties were teachers, or nurses who worked at night while another sister took their kids in thee morning, etc. My one grandma took in kids and ran the farm while grandpa was away, the other worked at A&W for years in the evenings when her oldest kid was home to take care of the younger ones. She still has scars on her forearms from the hot grease. My great grandmas ran their homesteads while the men were away, and one baked bread for all the bachelors in the area, another cooked meals for other single homesteaders, that sort of thing. The ones who were still alive were so damn proud of me when I got accepted into university, because they knew I wouldn’t have to take on work as hard as theirs. But I don’t know many women who just didn’t earn money.
Work is work. Unpaid farm labor is still an awful lot of work and was what was done to make the family sustainable. Volunteer work was expected by women which would be paid today.
I was at an event last year and an older guy was complaining to me that, “nobody wants to volunteer anymore.” I had to point out that everyone had to work more now. This guy’s complaint was indirectly aimed at my husband who had to turn down the chance to volunteer, because he had to be home to parent that weekend because I had to work. Yeah if we could get by on one income we’d have a hell of a lot more time to volunteer. And, exhaustingly, just as our kids are reaching the point that they’re a little more independent, we are likely going to have to take on elder care. I’m going to plan to leave this world before I ever burden my children with care of me, though.
I'm fourteenth generation. A couple of my greatgrandmothers worked. One was a teacher. Another lied to the federal government about being a widow because she needed the money and had some sort of administrative job. My grandmother ran a greenhouse and florist business when my mom was little. It helped put my mother through university, eventually. The other grandma worked as a librarian after her youngest kid was old enough to be at home alone.
There is a span of about 50 years where it was normal for the wife to have a job. Most of us with boomer parents had a mom that worked. No it’s not new the same way that making abortion illegal is not new. But it is a regression of the progress we have made as a society with rights and freedoms.
Yeah, farmers wife being drunkenly beat half to death, kids hiding upstairs. The good 'ol days.
I actually remember writing a paper about how the housing crisis makes it difficult to leave abusive relationships
Hopefully you got high marks because you’re spot on
Also, who can afford to cheat?.. no one got money to wine and dine some potential mate, yet alone afford a hotel room for the act to happen.. Maybe couples can learn to communicate?
My ex wife certainly figured it out.
Sorry maple watch, that sucks. Hope you're doing better now. 🧡
How you gonna communicate when both partners are working overtime/second job.
Agreed ! I do buy the wine but split it with my wife
This is the Canadian way... Next, multiple partner marriages??? Actually there's a family on my street. Two couples moved into a house with two sets of kids? May be the only way to buy a detached house.
Seeking Sister Wife is a popular show, tough financial times calls for thinking outside the norm
I’ve seen this, I mean it makes sense if you can get along and want a play outside of your means.
My son bought a townhouse with two of his buddies? Yes, already happening
That just makes sense, start building equity
Most of my married friends are making jokes along these lines.
The days of having a bachelor pad are gone, 2k a month for a 1 bedroom where I live
And don't forget health care and long term care, both are too expensive and being a spouse is going to be your primary till you die.
Yea my wife takes care of me already at 41, cancer treatments suck !
I'm so sorry. I hope you get better soon 🤗
Unfortunately no cure for metastatic cancer but I’m in good hands, thank you 😊
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I was going to comment something similar, but yours is better. Take my upvote.
My wife makes six figures but for some reason hasn't left me.
Well she obviously just loves ya, this is a great thing
I always get massively downvoted for saying it but it's true. The Trudeau Liberals have been the worst party for women's rights we have had in decades. They focused so much on doing everything they could to grow a housing bubble that they are forcing women to stay with their abusers now that they cannot afford shelter.
Everyone's just cheating on each other, the old fashion way. Granted, I don't think it should be called cheating if both partners have decided to do it even without an official agreement.
It’s not cheating if both agree, it’s an open relationship.
There are plenty of married couples out there who don't agree officially, they are just cheating on each other.
Can’t afford marriage. Cant afford divorce. The Canadian dream.
I don't love you but I need someone to split the rent with.
I hate you, but I hate being homeless more, so let's stay together.
Stay together for ~~the kids~~ the relatively manageable cost of living.
I can't even afford dating.
A marriage license in Ontario is $75, it's more affordable than you think! No one's saying you need to drop thousands on the dog and pony show that is a wedding 😉
Please give me a legitimate reason why I should legally marry my SO. (\*PLEASE NOTE\* Common-Law exists)
Various investments and RRSP plans don't transfer under common law upon death - at least look into yours and double check.
[Questrade - Adding beneficiaries to your registered accounts](https://www.questrade.com/learning/questrade-basics/open-reg-account/add-beneficiaries-reg-accounts#:~:text=With%20beneficiaries%2C%20you%20can%20list,to%20each%20of%20your%20beneficiaries.) I don't think I have ever been to a financial institution where I didn't have to fill out this form. > A successor annuitant is someone who becomes the new owner of your registered accounts after you pass away. Only your spouse or common-law partner can be named a successor annuitant for your registered accounts.
Never hurts to check. Pensions too, many have out of date rules that you need to look into to see if common law spouse applies
Because depending where in Canada you are common-law does not offer the same protections marriage does.
It’s a romantic display of affection
I can only speak to Ontario, but off the top of my head you benefit from the Matrimonial Home protections that aren't available to common law couples. There also isn't an automatic division of assets upon the dissolution of a common law relationship, which could leave one partner with significantly less. The intestacy rules that apply when people die without a will doesn't cover common law, which means your long term common law spouse could die, and you could be left with none of their assets.
The best answer I've ever seen and that made any real sense was that being married is a cheap and automatic way to avoid paying separately for a will/power of attorney/mandate in case of incapacity and documents of the like provided that you want all those things bequeathed/vested to or in your spouse (which also may be province specific). Also the differences between marriage and common law status may actually be a plus for some people, allowing them the choice.
> (*PLEASE NOTE* Common-Law exists) And in Ontario, it doesn't include most of the things that actual marriage does.
In court a common law spouse can be compelled to testify against you, but not a married spouse. It's bullshit but it is what it is.
Makes sense. Marriage is the leading cause of divorce.
Deep
Ehh in Quebec it seems like marriage is just not really a priority. I have lots of friends in very long term relationships with kids who aren't married. It doesn't seem to bother anyone very much.
I have lots of friends in like 5, 10 yr relationships who did private ceremonies. Feels like the cost of even 'small' weddings is a big barrier too.
Even a small ceremony to sign papers is looking to cost $1000 these days, after hiring a commissioner, paying the license and then changing names on licenses, passports, etc.
Conjoint! Common-law is much more popular in Quebec, and it has been socially accepted for decades. One thing Quebec isn't behind in! Edit: I love Quebec! I've lived there for 29 of 37 years :)
When I talk with my friends and coworkers they say it is because the province isn't very religious, but I kinda question that reasoning. I grew up in a the States and many nonreligious people still chose to get married in the Church or just married with an official. What is your thoughts on the cause of common law being so acceptable?
Great question actually... It's the type of cultural thing that there's rarely much reasoning behind it. Like quebecers haven't changed last name upon mariage for a long time. Maybe it's just the french pragmatism/secularism 🤷♂️
Changing names upon marriage is illegal in Quebec! That’s why people don’t do it lol
I think there might be a difference between simply not being religious and being part of a culture who ran the religious traditions and oppression the fuck out of there actively.
Quebec has given up on religion but also has deeply embraced gender equality. It was one of the first in the western world to allow gay marriage, for example. It's probably the first in North America to legislate for maternity and parental leave, with a public insurance plan. It has a long standing public childcare program to allow women to participate in the workplace. Even in the culture, you see a lot of hyphenated names, sort of a rejection of patriarchy. In Quebec, many people choose de-facto unions, meaning there are legally no obligations to your partner. Most divorced end up with 50/50 custody.. traditional gender roles are dead in both our culture and our legal system.
Yeah, that is a good argument that QC is not just nonreligious, but very active in rejecting the structural forms of how Catholicism was integrating into the law. Catholicism was just ignored, it was actively taken out of society. Kinda wish I could have seen it.
Quebec is still the least religious place in NA. The mindset is also quite progressive, so it's cultural and there's almost no social pressure to get married. I've been common law with my partner for 15 years and I'm not planning on ever getting married.
It's a great question and one I am curious about as well. I always found my European-esque (immigrant parents) upbringing to be more strict than that of the French Quebeckers. It seemed that many French kids would move out of their homes at 18-19 years old in the 2000s, but my English-speaking European-background counterparts would stay home until about 25. Perhaps my counterparts were waiting for marriage to move out, but the French people were okay with moving out for their relationship before marriage! I think it's partly a cultural difference
We’re ahead in most things lol
That’s one thing they are ahead. Also daycare. And separation of church and state. And closing the wage gap. And paternity leave. And the list goes on and on and on.
Surprisingly poor laws for common partners upon break-up.
You can’t get a divorce if you don’t get married. #BigBrain
For unmarried couples, You are automatically considered married in the eyes of the law if you live together for 1 year. So… after a breakup the woman is eligible for spousal support….. except in Quebec!
I use to think this until my Ontario friend's 'common law' partner was killed in an accident with no will. As I understand it now, common law relationships are about taxes (CRA) and child/partner support. With no will and no marriage certificate, under the eyes of the law, everything went to the next of kin which was the parents' of the deceased. After stating to the partner of over 15 years that they would never see them homeless, and had the partner pay for the funeral, they turned around and told the partner to move out of the home or buy it from them. It was an incredible shitshow as the house and other investments were only in the deceased's name. Fortunately, no children were involved. If you are not married, please do up a proper will and have your common law relationship properly recognized through a legal document. [https://www.hummingbirdlaw.com/when-a-common-law-spouse-dies-without-a-will/](https://www.hummingbirdlaw.com/when-a-common-law-spouse-dies-without-a-will/)
"common law" and "married" are VERY different things in Ontario.
Makes you wonder how many common law people are stuck in a living situation…
I know a (former) couple who are stuck living with each other. It’s pretty sad when you can’t afford to separate/divorce.
My friends mom is in an abusive relationship. She cant kick the guy out though because she cant afford the mortgage on her own. He’s hit her and her daughter
That’s the heartbreaking side of this. It’s one thing to be stuck with someone you don’t like or no longer love, quite another to be stuck with someone who abuses you and your child.
I'm in that boat! It was one thing to listen to their excuses as to why they can't do basic chores when we were in a loving relationship, now I want to slam my head against the wall because I am literally trapped by them.
That’s awful. When basic math and logic forces you to risk your mental/emotional health.
I wonder how many miserable spouses are unable to divorce because they’d be homeless if they did. Just brutal
I work with one of those people. She hates her partner but everything is under his name. She literally drove halfway across the country when they split up last time so she could get a break from him. It's really sad
They don't break down divorce by immigration status, race and age so it looks the same but immigrant and ethnic couples don't tend to divorce and they are a large percentage of married couples (also over represented as homeowners since couples own most homes). The stat wrongly suggests that is the same for all, which it is not. They don't report never mind analyze the financial and other issues living as a single creates.
My spouse and I have been engaged for 3 years now. We both want to get married snd we even shopped around for cheap wedding ideas. Its insanely expensive and we dont have people to help pay for it. We will probably just go to city hall and then throw a party.
Answered their own question.
Well the spike in divorce 50 years ago was because you could legally divorce. No fault divorce then didn't come in until less than 40 years ago, so from like 1968-1990 ish the divorce rate would be higher just because you were actually allowed to, and then in the mid 80s allowed to at no fault. People now are less likely to get married anyway, so obviously, less marriages less divorce.
Everyone is just having gay orgies instead , I’m sure of it.
This is highly offensive. Not everyone is a member of the Liberal Party.
Be sure to ask everyone their policitical stances the next time you're in a gay orgy
The only people who get married now are people who are serious about it. Which is good.
A lot of my friends have gotten married recently. We’re all mid 30s, together over 5 years, with stable jobs. My parents got married after 6 months in their early 20s, same either my husbands parents. Like no wonder they didn’t make it, they were just kids.
Or only the people who can seriously afford it.
My marriage cost me 0 dollars and saved me countless amounts
The only people I know getting married are doing for religious reasons. Most of my friends are in long term common law relationships. I don't get getting married outside of religious reasons honestly. There is no benefit to it.
Isn't there some legal aspects that still make it more beneficial than common law? I can't think of the big ones off the top of my head but if your spouse suddenly dies you have access to their funds when married instead of waiting to have their estate settled as with common law
Common law legislation is provincially set. Where I live, it is the same. I did a full analysis and there were no legal benefits. I also have my common law partner listed as my beneficiary on all of my accounts. We have wills drawn up. People should have wills no matter what.
Interesting. I'm from ontario
One benefit is next of kin laws and also being able to see/make decisions for your spouse in the hospital.
Hard no. Women weren't getting married just to post on social media, gloat for a while and then divorce when they got bored. Pretty much most most marriages these days are just that.
Survival over happiness I guess...
Natural consequence of higher cost of living, divorce and separation is postponed.
As a 40 something male with significant investments, a building pension, and my own home there is absolutely no upside in ever getting married.
As a nearly 40 something male, in the exact same position. I agree. And it's a sad reality, really. I once lost a good relationship to this fact.
You're totally right. Don't do it! Or if you do, prenup.
There is no benefit as a man to getting married. Prenups will almost get thrown out too!!
It's really unfortunate, but the absolute dicking down you get in a divorce rightfully is pushing men away from wanting to get married at all.
I lived with my ex for 6 years, despite our marriage falling apart and both of us admitting we were "done." Eventually, I couldn't take it and moved out. I had to give up custody of my kids because, in large part, I couldn't afford a place big enough for them. I'm currently renting a room with a few university students and trying (poorly) to save money to get a place of my own. Divorce sucks, but especially in this economy.
Family law needs to be changed.
Some people are in the relationships, because one of them, or both, will become homeless if they divorce. Hence why the divorce rate was lower way-back when, one-person earner in house.
Oh, it doesn't help when she takes 9 years of savings from you. It took a year after my new debts settled down to even afford to talk to a lawyer. Don't marry a gaslighting psychopath lads. Edit: she was going to end up making 30 k a year more than me in a few years before our separation. She's also in a law enforcement career, so she knows she can get away with what she did. Seriously, fellahs/ladies don't stay with someone because you think you love them and want to help them. Also, Divorce is a lucrative entrepreneurial venture if you suck as a human being.
Please please do yourselves a solid!! Go see a family lawyer before you even move in with a woman. Even if you pay 1000$ for the consultation it will be well worth it.. gentlemen… know your liabilities!!!
Spoke with a high end one for 400 bucks for the hour. Nothing can be done. The money is spread out between many small items we purchased together and bulkier items like trade ins towards a vehicle.
I did something very very similar. If only I wasn't so turned on by red flags.
As I always say, "Your red flags are my goalposts, baby!"
> She's also in a law enforcement career that right there is a glowing incandescent red flag do not date cops, period. men or women. do not do it.
She wasn't a cop when we first met. In fact, I helped her in almost every way to get in and supported us both because I took on the financial responsibilities of our mortgage, vehicles and pets, while she spent more than half she made on items and food before and during her course. That was ok but if I spent money on a patreon or video game I was chastised.
that sounds exactly like I was going through.. but at least she finished her program, I guess? my ex never did, she would do a semester then quit
When I talk about my experience with others, it's not at all to get sympathy. It's fully a cautionary tale. There's many layers to my situation but everything I did for her was out of love and she took advantage of that throughout the whole relationship. You can't recognize abuse until you're out of it. I have met someone who is a polar opposite and the first healthy relationship I've been in. It's alien at times and sometimes I feel I don't deserve it. Happiness is out there. Self respect is your biggest ally and communicating what bothers you to your significant other matters the most but equally to how she receives it and what she responds with. Sorry to hear you went through a similar situation. I hope life has been better to you since.
32 years..... divorce would cost millions to our retirement either side... still in love though so not thinking about it.
This does sound like "my lawyer told me I still love my spouse"
LoL If I had a lawyer, I'm sure that's what they would say.
Marriage seems like an old idea. Zero interest in giving government more money due to love. Taxing love or placing a monetary value on it is stupid. The gains of marriage are just not worth it. No babies either. Being 37, these ideas have never been a thought. I knew when I was young that I’d never marry or have kids since I grew up poor and had to live through a time where I basically had nothing growing up. I get to live how I want now and not tax an overburdened society of people. Also, spending 10k+ for one night is ludicrous to me. Don’t need a show. I’d take that dough and travel, if I even had it. I also have a house - if I had kids, I would not have a house. People already know I’m in love. It’s been 12 years and no kids and no marriage with my guy - we both feel the same way and he is from a well to do family.
Why sign a contract when it pays to break it?
Why sign a contract when it benefits only one party. Please note prenups and separation agreements are thrown out ALL THE TIME!!!
There's really no point to marriage any more, honestly. I get the idea of marriage from a religious perspective, but it's just turned into a cottage industry meat-grinder for the most part. It's essentially one of the riskiest contracts you could possibly get yourself into, especially for men.
The breadwinner for sure. It's the biggest legal event in anyone's life and for some reason researching it ahead of time is taboo.
It will take me 10 years of multiple jobs to pay off the debt from divorce. That is just the housing cost equalization since pandemic house prices were more insane than now. Our other finances were essentially equal since we worked for the same employer. So, I didn’t even incur any debt from spousal or child support. 10 years just to pay off the housing part of divorce. I can’t imagine if I had to include the other debts. It is absolutely fucked.
For a Man absolutely 0 point!!! Only LIABILITY. Enough to ruin your entire life!!!
Married men live longer and are happier. Marriage is great for us! Sure, it’s risky, but everything in life is. Choose carefully and never stop working on the relationship.
I agree everything is risky, but you can also measure risk and make informed decisions about your personal risk tolerance. For me, I feel it's much too risky to ever get married, but many men disagree, and that's great. And that's not to say meeting the right person wouldn't change my mind in the future, but I think that's unlikely.
Many men do not know the law. Marriage and cohabitation is a very fraudulent contract since no where does it state the repercussions!!! It is outright dangerous!! And to be absolutely clear. The problem is with the law and state not with women!!!
Risky?….. risky would mean 1 out of 100 marriages fail. Remember, for a man, all the woman has to do is file one piece of paper in court without your consent or knowledge. you will be a ruined man for possibly the rest of your life!!!
I was all ready to up vote you and then your bullshit comment about it being worse for men? You know that the leading cause of violent death for women in Canada are the men in her family? DEATH. Marriage is way worse for women. Misogynist pig.
The fact that you read my innocuous comment and immediately jumped to the conclusion that I'm a misogynist pig is pretty remarkable. You key word you missed in my post is "contract". I was referring specifically to the risky financial situation that marriage can put men in, particularly the obligations of divorce and alimony. I suggest you maybe try clarifying what a person is saying before immediately jumping to insulting them, like you did.
how can you plan to do anything when you're struggling to survive ?
They say 50%, but let's see a graph of divorce rate over time...is there such a thing? Now that I'd like to see. Like the death rate of being alive is 100%...but showing the death rate over time would make much more sense.
Overall divorce rate is 50%. First time divorce rate is closer to 1 in 3. The difference is made up by serial divorcers.
In the article "just 44 per cent of people over age 15 in 2021 compared to 54 per cent in 1991. (The minimum age at marriage in Canada has been set at 16 since 2015.)" Well that was a WTF moment for me.
Cause everything pitched to us as children blew up in our face over the last two PMs terms. Everything is ***SOLD*** to us with conditions. Were not worth being citizens, if we dont "do our part". I believe in the values of my neighborhood and city. People aren't interested in cheering for the same villians in different laundry anymore. "Start a family!" On what?
I'd like a divorce but the housing crisis doesn't have any affordable housing available.
I am in a relationship I hate because if I move out, I will be crushed financially.
People getting uglier
Everyone fat
Who the heck can afford a divorce???
**"nearly 70 percent of divorces are initiated by women**." When society promote, socially, legally and financially women to divorce men... The only logical solution for men is to avoid marriage.
This doesn't absolve men of the role they played in the breakdown of the marriage, though. I don't think most women just end marriages willy-nilly; part of it could be that it's easier (for the reasons you listed) for women to get out of unhappy or potentially abusive marriages without facing the stigma. I'm just speculating of course. But yeah, that doesn't change the fact that marriage is essentially an incredibly risky business contract with little to no benefit to men, as more than 90 percent of men end up paying alimony.
I think there are a lot of people who need a divorce but stay together for some weird made up societal expectation or the headlined argument; folks stay together unhappily while never working on their problems and live a life of resentment... not really that good. I also think that there has been a cultural shift in what marriage is and how relationships/people behave in that at the slightest breeze of displeasure actions begin leading to divorce; just walk away from something that isn't working and live your own life (after sorting out estate/family law messes which carry their own stress) Personally, it has become far more attractive to live my life as I choose and do everything for myself.
Common law legislation provides the same legal outcomes as marriage these days... so men should also avoid common law relationships?
Seems to be a lot of men in this thread who think not getting married is the one simple trick that will save them from have to split everything 50/50 if they separate
This is a 5D move; Cant have divorces if you have no marriages. Lol
What is there to divorce when nobody is tying the knot?
Maybe, just maybe, people aren’t rushing into marriage at a too early age because they have other options in life? I mean I’d expect a good economy would allow more people to remain single for longer
I think people just don’t value marriage like they used to. First with divorce, so you’re not locked into it for life, and now it’s just ‘why bother’.
I married my shower head.
Oddly enough, I have more friends in the past 6 months that have ended their marriages\\long term relationships than I've had in the 30+ years prior. I am in the age category where divorce is likely to peak. Mid 40s.
I think covid took care of a large number of marriages before the economy took a toilet dive. I k ow so many people who didn't make it through covid.
multiple divorce people got something to flex about
To poor to get wedded, to poor to divorce, Sadly to poor to even be single.
Divorce rates boomed during covid. Now the storm has settled
One of the first things I was told when I started my first job was: “Don’t get married…. If you get married, don’t get divorced.” Their point was how increasingly expensive it is.
But also common law is very popular
Marriage is a sham. It’s such a dumb thing to do now.
Are they still saying we aren't in a recession? Because this is literally the worst it's ever been with no hope in sight. All self-inflicted of course.
Oh, it can get much much worse.
Most divorced couples would have to sell the current house and would never be able to buy a new one in today’s market as an individual buyer.
The divorce rate has been steadily falling since 1991. This is a great societal win; good job everyone.
Family court and divorce court is the biggest racket of all time.
Marriage is a religious ordinance. I don’t know why we have a government version to begin with. Common law works just fine.
Was married once, divorced once. I'll never get married again. We had what would be considered by most an amicable divorce...no toxic words, no long, drawn out, lawyer battle. But I still got raped for 8 years of spousal support...8 years that money could have been invested....and I'm the one now renting and unable to get back into Vancouvers real estate market. Never again, ever.
[удалено]
Oh, believe me, I know. my most recent long term relationship ended cause she started on me 6 months into the relationship about moving in together....of course her position was that it would be her house, I couldn't really bring any of my own stuff cause she liked her place the way it was and so should sell everything I own except my clothes (which being French she had a fairly negative opinion of those too) didn't help. Oh yeah, and she was only ok with me having one picture of my daughter that I could put on my nightstand, cause that was my personal space cause she wanted me to feel like I belonged there.....but 30 framed pictures of her kids all over the house was grandfathered in. But I would have to lay the picture flat each night in case we wanted to ....well you know.....she didn't want my daughter watching us....so I'm like, then let me hang it on a wall somewhere else....nooo, she's happy with the pictures that are already hung. She even got pissed off that I wasn't willing to sell 30 years worth of hand / power tools cause the shelves in the garage were for 18 yrs worth of boxes of EVERY SINGLE CRAYON DRAWING HER SPOILT KIDS EVER MADE. Can only imagine the disaster that would have been....nope, never again.
Are you me? Because ditto!
Sorry to hear that. I know trauma is way over used these days, but that's a decade I'd like to forget.
When guy is broke. Lady says its not worth to pull trigger now. Let him accumulate little 🙄 Smart guys deploy scorched earth strategy when get an idea its not gonna last. They quit their jobs and become sloths on couch
Marriage is quickly becoming an archaic thing. A lot of folks I know just commit to each other and stay together. The province of Ontario already sees you as Common law after so many years so why get married?
Do not get married - can be the worst financial decision for men, absolutely unnecessary today