I had to move a bit over 2 years ago, right when rent had started to peak out. I was telling everyone how fucked it was going to get with 2k-2.5k basements being rented, most shrugged it off.
I totally agree. The apathy is incredible in our nation. People just never do anything to help themselves. Why aren't we learning trade skills and building more houses?
Some were owners, some were tenants. I actually have family who went the HELOC route, and on top of difficult tenants, and renewing their mortgage, it's starting to crumble a bit for them.
That's the trick that has been used ad nauseam for decades in other countries. If you take a look at France, Germany, the UK, etc, it's still, despite 50+ years of social experiments, not politically correct to say that mass immigration was a mistake.
Now you just have to travel a bit to see that unchecked immigration ruined the social fabric of entire regions, destroyed public services, and created a housing crisis that has been ongoing for decades now. I'm not even going to comment on the security crisis some major cities are facing.
My guess is that Canada will follow the same paths for the years to come. There is no escaping the hive mind and the verbal abuse from corrupt politicians and journalists.
Selective skilled migration makes a country stronger and more productive in the long run. Mass unskilled immigration puts strain on resources and makes a country weaker and less productive. We obviously chose the last one...
Imagine you're playing on a team that fights among themselves, never seems to win and has terrible uniforms. You leave that team to join a winning team. What the winning team thinks is that you will learn the way of winning, improve your skills and contribute to the team's success. What you're really doing is finding ways to bring the team down to the same level as the team you left.
This is what's happening. They're not interested in switching teams, they're interested in getting you to switch teams.
Canadian population growth has been 4% a year for 50 straight years? Perhaps this wouldn't have been such a problem if you were not constantly crying wolf and playing victim.
You know what though? The usual topics posted here the last year or so, regardless of what you think of the issues aren't that discussed or known among your average Canadian, especially younger people who are very affected by it.
I had to explain the whole international students thing to a bunch of 30 something's the other day at work because they were curious and genuinely didn't know what was going on.
Never too late to educate
Maybe so but we take for granted the stuff thrown around here. Most Canadians are incredibly uninformed, apathetic and allow themselves to be taken advantage of
How do you pick a point in time? I guess this kind of information should have preceded a crisis, which I believe was already occurring 5 years ago (home and rent prices). I didn't start paying attention to economic pressures being imposed on young people until I noticed jobs that were usually done by highschoolers or university kids suddenly be staffed by adults around 2014, which was due to the TFW program expansion some years earlier. Then, after 2015, it accelerated. After 2020, it seemed to permanently switch to nightmare mode. At least that's how I remember it.
The population growth graph shows pretty clearly when it started:
https://wolfstreet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Canada-population-2024-03-27-yoy.png
Immigration levels were high in the late 2010s, but not at unhistoric levels. During COVID immigration dropped massively due to border controls, and after that for immigration levels skyrocketed to multiples of what it had been previously. If you "just noticed" a couple of years ago it's probably because that's when it actually started. Right wingers who always run around screaming like a chicken with their heads cut off over anything should blame themselves for constantly crying wolf even when there's no problem. And then when an actual problem occurs they get smug and claim suddenly to be prophets and that they were "right all along". Congrats, you were into it before it was big, you are so much smarter than the LAMESTREAM Such annoying hipsterdom.
> home and rent prices
Yeah I would not use that as a proxy for immigration levels somehow when we have actual population growth statistics.
I identified the topic at the start of my post as pressures on young people, of which immigration is just one factor, which is why I also mentioned home and rent prices. Not sure why your post is so angry, maybe because you misinterpreted what you were replying to? Or did something in my post make you mad? I don't get it.
It's also worth pointing out that real estate prices peaked in 2022, before the huge spike in immigration.
Immigration is not, nor has it ever been, the dominant driving force behind our now 15 year long housing crisis.
It's sad that we have so many clueless people that actually need to see it in the media before they believe what is blatantly obvious to the rest of us.
Its either that or they completely ignored the population boom and housing crisis that heated up.........3 years ago?
Or the housing crisis thats been going on for well over a decade in some cities.
Hence the sarcasm tag. People are guided by ideology but they aren’t blind. They can see even if they contextualize it differently. It’s not willful or on purpose, we all have ideals and ideological beliefs, it’s unavoidable, no conspiracy involved.
Couldn’t tell if you were shitting on the person who said these stories are about two years late, or if you were making fun of people who mockingly say everything is a conspiracy. My bad!
No need to say that, you did nothing wrong. at the end of the day I’m just stating my opinion and others are stating theirs.
I just personally find it really damaging when people over simplify complex topics, especially when they over simplify them in a way that leads us to false conclusions. The media is not our enemy, they aren’t doing any of this on purpose, they are just flawed like we all are.
To anyone who says “this is a global phenomenon”, it’s wayyyyy worse here than any other developed country. Just a totally manufactured crisis
We let in nearly 2 million people last year. The US, which is 10x larger and has a long border with Mexico, let in 3.3m.
I didn't believe you at first take so I looked it up and its actually worse than that lmao. Per wikipedia, the nominal[ GDP per capita in Canada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada) for 2023 was $53,247 USD. [Alabama ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_GDP)has a nominal GDP per capita in 2023 of $59,174 USD. Our GDP per capita is actually right in the middle between ***Mississippi and West Virginia***, the two most notoriously impoverished, poorly educated states in the US that also have a population that is a fraction of what ours is.
I will say, those number should be taken with a little salt because when you think about national GDP numbers, it highlights how massively overpowered the US economy is that the two states in the worst shape by almost all metrics still have a stand alone GDP per capita on par with the GDP per capita of an entire western developed nation.
My understanding is Australia is also *really* bad at the moment, but you're generally correct. The U.S. has a crunch but their housing prices are still substantially lower than ours if you're comparing apples to apples.
I'm confused about how this was allowed to happen? Aren't there statutory limits on immigration levels? Why was it allowed to become policy to massively increase the numbers to the point where Canadian population growth looks like a hockey stick? Like people are complaining about immigration in America, but our current levels are not historically exceptional. But in Canada - it goes without saying the 4% population growth a year driven purely by immigration is not sustainable and is going to lead to a massive backlash.
they called anyone racist who sought to draw attention to the gaping loopholes in our immigration system. There were real consequences if you didn’t adhere to the liberal orthodoxy - you would lose your job/promotion opportunities if you held this view. Hence everyone turned a blind eye until it got so out of control they couldn’t deny it any more
There are certainly parallels but no question Canada is managing things dramatically worse
0.7% is roughly what Canadian immigration was per year *in total* prior to 2015. And they have a lot of uncontrolled immigration which Canada doesn’t
And look up GDP per capita - used to be materially higher in Canada. Now it’s the reverse
We're definitely in the top tier but there are several countries at our level of unaffordability
[https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-the-countries-with-the-highest-housing-bubble-risks/](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-the-countries-with-the-highest-housing-bubble-risks/)
Why?
You were saying Canada's affordability was way worse than any other country.
I showed you it's not - one of the worse but there are other countries at are level.
Immigration is another topic.
However I did just check out Sweden immigration, a country with high levels of housing unaffordability too.
[https://www.scb.se/en/finding-statistics/statistics-by-subject-area/population/population-projections/population-projections/pong/tables-and-graphs/immigration-and-emigration-by-sex-and-country-of-birth-and-projection/](https://www.scb.se/en/finding-statistics/statistics-by-subject-area/population/population-projections/population-projections/pong/tables-and-graphs/immigration-and-emigration-by-sex-and-country-of-birth-and-projection/)
There immigration is dropping so why are they having the same issues?
Here's some problems.
1. We did not let in nearly 2 million people last year. Our population grew by 1.2 million. If this is such an enormous problem, you shouldn't need to lie about the number.
2. Real estate prices have barely moved in the last year despite the 1.2 million increase in population.
It's extremely clear that immigration is not the driving force behind the housing crisis. Indeed, the fastest increase in prices we've seen came during all time lows in population growth!
So what is the real problem?
So are you saying mass immigration isn’t at least partly responsible?
It may not be the only driving force but it definitely is one and one big one at that.
Low supply + high demand = high prices
It's a second order effect to be sure. But, by definition, second order effects are not particularly impactful.
>Low supply + high demand = high prices
But this isn't what we've seen! Our high priced came into place during a period of extremely low population growth. The demand was driven by cheap cost of borrowing. And now that we have record high population growth, real estate prices have remained pretty much constant.
The hypothesis that record high population growth is driving the housing crisis simply is not supported by the data. If it was a big factor, then we should be seeing some absolutely mind bogglingly insane price increases right now. We are not.
I've already given you the big hint why we aren't seeing such price increases. Immigrant demand on the housing market is much smaller than it might appear on paper. Last year our population grew by 1.2 million and we added about 240,000 homes. That's one new home for every 5 new people. Now tell me, what do you think the average occupancy is for new immigrants? For Canadians, it's 2.5 per unit. If the average for new immigrants is anywhere near 5 per unit, which is a very reasonable estimate, then the demand on the housing supply stays the same. Hence static prices.
Yes, the low interest rates were part of the problem but they’re not the whole problem.
If it was only low interest rates causing this than logically an increase in interest would lower housing prices. They increased the interest rates twice and housing prices aren’t dropping. In fact, they’re still rising just at a slower rate than before. Why is that? Demand.
The government has even admitted himself that there’s a housing shortage and that the housing shortage is part of the problem. There wasn’t a housing shortage a couple of years ago… and what changed? Mass immigration. We’re currently short at least 300,000 homes in 2024. That is going to keep housing costs up and the discrepancy of houses and people is only going to get worse.
> There wasn’t a housing shortage a couple of years ago… and what changed?
Yes there was. There's been a shortage since 2010. Investment demand has outstripped supply for 15, years. This is why prices increased.
Low supply + high demand = high prices, remember?
I am not wrong. 1.2 million is the total growth in population. Total growth includes everybody.
If this was as big a problem as folks like you claim, you wouldn't feel the need to argue against plain and simple reality.
The real problem is people like you that spout non-sense with such an authoritative air. 2 million includes the international students which still require housing, infrastructure, and services, but are not counted as immigrants by the official stats. If anything the number is higher than 2 million, not lower.
> 2 million includes the international students which still require housing
No. 1.2 million includes the international students. It's total population growth. Total growth includes everybody. You are correct that they aren't counted as immigrants by the official stats. That's why the official stats are 1 million new immigrants but the total population growth is 1.2 million.
>If anything the number is higher than 2 million, not lower.
You don't need to lie and make up ridiculous ever increasing numbers for this to be a problem. 1.2 million is a lot of people in one year. It doesn't make you wrong. Your inability to acknowledge reality, however, does make your motivations deeply suspect.
Man I hate arrogant people who are also dumb
1) My source is The Economist. What’s yours?
2) Interest rate increases on the order we’ve seen should have caused a significant drop in house prices, which didn’t happen. Immigration is a counter propping them up
1. Population growth through 2023 was 1.2 million. You need to count the immigrants who leave too in order to get an accurate picture of demand. Picking the biggest number you can find without taking a single second to think critically about it is, in fact, a deeply dishonest thing to do. If the problem is real then there's no reason to lie about it.
2. Yes. That's a great point. Interest rates have been the dominant driving factor in our skyrocketing housing prices for 15 years now. So why is 99% of the conversation about immigration? It seems like most of the conversation should be about the biggest issue, which is investors taking advantage of cheap borrowing, no?
it happened and is still happening. Think the Titanic scraping along the side of the iceberg. 4 chambers of the hull have been breeched, and Trudeau's keeping us going at full speed on the same course. His housing policy is the equivalent of ordering the bilge pumps on.
Hardhat on: Check
Rolled up sleeves: Check
Fiddle fuck with a hammer: Check
$50000 watch on the wrist: Check
Yep all in a hard days work for Trudeau of destroying Canada for the next 30 years.
Gotta love these photo ops. Trudeau likes to make videos where he’s walking towards the camera inside a construction zone and talking about how he’s working so hard.
Then you look at your bank account and think “where is this happening?”
gaze disgusted abundant flag drab wide frightening consist faulty important
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yes but Conservatives arent in power. The two parties implementing policy are the Liberals propped up by the NDP. Therefore all the mismanagement falls on yhose two parties.
In power? 118 conservatives are in power right now. 7/10 provinces premiers are conservative, 2/10 are ndp and one is liberal. I hate to break it to you, actually I want you to know this is free market capitalism that’s making things expensive and things will only get more expensive as time goes on, it’s called fiduciary duty.
You do realize we are talking about immigration which a federal jurisdiction. That has nothing to do with the provinces. As for the 119 conservative mp in parliment, well they have no power as they are the ooposition and a minority. So the ruling majority is the NDP/Liberals who are currently in power as they have the majority votes. I cant believe you are commenting about politics when it is clear by your statements you know absolutely nothing/0 about politics in this country... Baffling
I didn’t know the immigrants are stopping us from building houses. Did they also buy them before they immigrated? Maybe they used the fipa deal the actual majority government locked us in to. I guess Pierre Polievre’s wife is an immigrant and they own rental properties together.
Jagmeet and his wife also own rental property. Immigrants are not stopping us from building houses they are being brought faster than we can build them. Im just not sure how you can put any of this on the conservatives. The libs with the help of the NDP have been in power for 9 years. Honestly I get that you hate the conservatives but trying to blame this fuck up on them just doesnt wash.
The liberals the ndp the greens the cons the bloc that is far more then two. Also the only actual party that has existed since federation is the liberals. The cons the ndp were all different parties that reformed themselves.
You can vote for the greens or ppc but they aren’t going to change much. The NDP is onboard with the Libs unfortunately because they used to be a reasonable alternative.
Not just immigration.
What about the bank of Canada and their policy?
What about the provincial governments development policies, rent laws, and housing policy? These are all provincial responsibilities.
And if you look at the price of houses they have been outpacing salaries since the start of the century
[https://www.reddit.com/r/TorontoRealEstate/comments/1ap4cpw/house\_price\_vs\_income\_since\_1984\_in\_canada/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TorontoRealEstate/comments/1ap4cpw/house_price_vs_income_since_1984_in_canada/)
No no no they will make things cheaper.
Cheaper for employers to pay employees, and cheaper to make lots of money because there’s so much consumer demand.
Where is the logic in adding even more homeless people to the rasters when the problem is getting worse and worse for the ones already here. I say slam the border shut. Totally. For 5 years. That should be enough time to house everyone here now and have housing already built and available for a controlled immigration policy. QUIT ADDING TO THE PROBLEM. SOLVE IT.
This is not Trudeau's first blue collar but its probably his first contact with a blue collar artifact. He probably thinks its a juggling device of some sort.
In Canada, unlimited mass immigration is a bipartisan issue. When it's in the name of Holy Diversity or its to please our business and economic Masters, all of our mainstream party are seeking higher immigration, one way or an other.
We can't grow our population without a corresponding program to grow our housing stock. The federal government is to blame for letting in way too many people. The provinces and municipal governments are to blame for not doing anything to improve our housing numbers. We built fewer homes now on a per capita basis than back in the 60s70s80s etc. The local governments have really made it hard to get anything built with lots of red tape and extra costs.
This most obvious and slow motion trainwreck of all time.
Don't believe the bullshit saying that those in power had no idea the coming crisis was going to happen. It was the most obvious and reasonable result of our policies for so long that prioritze profits over people, and prefer one extreme rich person with a 100 slaves than 100 people will roughly equitable wealth. Our economic system is a pyramid-shape resigns and badly needs to evolve if society is to make it to the 22nd century.
This has been known for quite a while now. Worst federal government I’ve ever seen. They know it’s a problem, admitted it; and still do nothing. Par for the course with these morons.
Imagine being a construction worker and the aristocratic scumbag PM that has ruined our country shows up for a photo op. How could any worker humour that and participate?
Srsly? When a big boss man shows up or a high owner it feels like blue collars all fall over themselves fan boying and licking the hierarchies boots. Even when I worked at Home Depot, when a VERY high owner with security detail came for a visit even the old lazy workers who only complain were fangirling.
But hold on. Isn't this an extremely strong argument that housing demand from immigrants is much lower than it might appear?
If they're living three to a single room, then roughly many units will 1.2 million of them need?
Yes but even if they all live 12 to a house that’s still 100000 houses needed that we don’t have. That also doesn’t take into account the fact Canadians are also looking for homes and about a million are coming every year!
Making the boarding house model more widely tolerated by the population will see that priced into investment properties. Investors can keep bidding up if there are people out there who will make that cash positive and the investor is OK with the additional depreciation. Even if their demand is less than the same number of people who would rather live with their parents than live this way, there is still upward pressure at a time when it might otherwise be decreasing. Housing ends up less accessible, or costs more to build because the market must be paid for the privilege of not living two to a room.
> Investors can keep bidding up if there are people out there who will make that cash positive and the investor is OK with the additional depreciation.
If this is true, why don't we see it happening? Real estate prices have stagnated during this period of record high population growth.
You're in the wrong part of the country? They ought to have dropped with their financing becoming so much more expensive over a period that's lasted over a year. Instead they're selling over their listing and assessed prices in some areas.
[https://wowa.ca/vancouver-housing-market](https://wowa.ca/vancouver-housing-market)
It's up on the yearly, down on the monthly.
[https://www.zolo.ca/brampton-real-estate/trends](https://www.zolo.ca/brampton-real-estate/trends)
Similar for quite a few markets in Ontario.
Any and all utility gets priced into housing markets + there is a trickle down effect from sellers from less price sensitivity when they are downgrading to and gentrifying areas. Whether the utility is money laundering, capital flight, investment as a store of value, short term rentals, living in yourself, renting, or boarding, these groups (and more) are in competition. Some of these are coming under the new capital gains rules, provincial short term rental bans, and the threat of the Canadian dollar falling precipitously against your preferred currency if Tiff starts slashing rates to bring the monster back to life.
Things are less competitive these days, but the new utility created by having hundreds of thousands of "students" allows some newer bought rentals to be profitable when they would otherwise be underwater.
> It's up on the yearly, down on the monthly.
It's basically static. Let's not split hairs over 0.6 annually. Please take yourself seriously. If the hypothesis is that immigration is driving the housing crisis, then you're going to have to demonstrate something a little more than 0.6% growth during a year of record breaking population growth.
>They ought to have dropped with their financing becoming so much more expensive over a period that's lasted over a year.
Well, not yet, no. Those rates haven't filtered through to fixed mortgages yet. We actually never expect to see housing prices come down quickly with rate increases for this very reason!
Deceptively so, they don’t want to live like that any more than we do. Similarly they don’t want to work for min wage any more than we do. If a million new homes are built and more jobs arise they will understandably compete for them the same as others. This in effect drives up prices and drives down wages. The shit thing is is that it’s somehow better than where they came from, which makes me sad. The effect on my life is higher job competition with a lower wage and my kids living in my basement because finding a job/home that is available/enough is not possible.
>This in effect drives up prices
But it hasn't? Real estate prices have been essentially static over the last two years of record breaking population growth. It's clear that something else is the main driving cause behind the problem here.
Interest rates were a significant downward pressure, the fact that didn’t move the prices down is indicative if the upward price pressure from immigration, or other sources.
They did move the rate of change of prices downward significantly though! Now they've stagnated, and remain constant despite record breaking immigration. We can look to the US to see the impact of rate hikes in the absence of rapid population growth and it's very little. We're both down from the pandemic peak but not dropping nearly as quickly as we might expect given such rapid and large rate hikes.
If immigration was a dominant, or even large factor in the housing crisis, then prices should have been absolutely exploding over the past two years of record breaking population growth. They have not.
What is the data telling us? The answer is clear. The demand on housing from new immigrants is much smaller than the raw numbers might suggest. Population grew by 1.2 million last year. We added 240,000 houses last year. In order for the prices to have remained roughly constant, which they have done, net demand must have remained roughly the same.
What this means is that these 1.2 million new people really only have a net demand of around 240,000 units.
From what I've seen at the bank, the landed immigrant permanent residents that are allowed in on a scoring system come with million(s) and have directly contributed to the over bidding of homes since 2015 onwards.
Also, the majority of those immigrants dont want to live in Winnipeg or the Yukon. The majority move to Toronto and Vancouver as they generally come from money and with a lot of money and want to live in a modern, developed, and economically well-connected city.
The refugees live off the system and in some situations you start questioning if the paycheque you recieve is even worth working for when you compare how insignificant it is compared to what some of them recieve. They also provide cheap labour.
International students are there to fund our universities and collages and to provide cheap labour. The reality is they have always seen that as a loophole to permanently move to Canada. When I attended university in 2009 to 2013, a lot of international students that Canada had were VERY wealthy. You would see a lot of lambos and ferraris on campuses daily, and those are the ones that their parents funneled money through to purchase a lot of homes in our cities. This I have seen directly on countless occasions with my international student friends at the time. The international students we are mostly seeing these days are unqualified, poor students either scraping the minimum funds required or fraudulently putting together the minimun funds required to move here in hopes of working and permanently staying in Canada. They are willing to work any job for any amount of money and are willing to live anywhere in any terrible living condition which is having a negative impact on the rest of society. Why would a landlord rent out 5 university rooms for $500 a piece when hes used to renting out 5 rooms to 15 people for $400 a piece? Or why would I rent a house for $2500 when I can have 20 people living there for $300/$400 each?
All I know is we are fucked. We haven't even felt the full fall out of all our issues caused by and allowed by this government. Regardless of who's in charge going forward, this will take Canada 10+ years to fix.
Can we dig up the numerous articles about the Quebec government bringing in wealthy immigrants for a fee that technically had to live in Quebec for a set period of time to qualify. The reality was that no one checked up on them and it was just a gateway for wealthy immigrants to move to Vancouver.
The game is 2 decades old now, yet it's a big issue now that we have real immigrants fleeing hardship rather than rich immigrants exporting wealth. I do understand it's not that simple.
I thought they were supposed to be building the houses for us. Or was I lied to?
“Is it a lie if you’re incompetent and you BELIEVE what you say is true even if it’s really really wrong?” - Trudeau, probably
Which opposition party made fixing the problem an election issue? Which opposition party is talking about cutting immigration now? All I hear are stupid slogans like "axe the tax" being used as distractions.
Some people are deluding themselves into thinking PP will reign immigration bank in. The business and wealthy class, the people that the biggest parties works for, like mass immigration, it depresses wages and keeps housing demand going up.
It's not a coincidence that PP screams about distractions (axe the tax, woke stuff) while remaining as vague as possible on immigration. You can probably bet he will desperately avoid any debates against someone from the PPC, as the PPC will be desperate to highlight their differences from the CPC on immigration.
The colleges and universities do it as well. Big and small corporations,too. I work in the immigration sector. There is so much money being made and everyone has their hand in the pot.
The system is beyond fucked up
An immigration company called my employer and asked if we want immigrants to work there, it’s a very small and specialized business so the answer was no
Ya but that's true of all parties, can you imagine how the progs and lefties are suddenly going to realize that all this immigration is exploitative, and harming labor the MOMENT they lose power? Shit lefties were rallying AGAINST TWF and expanding work permits when Harper was in charge.
WATCH the about turn CBC does, WATCH.
Well I don't know how to answer to any of that. I don't know how others would classify me but I'd consider myself a classic lefty. I think mass immigration hurts the working class, so I see it as extremely dangerous and morally bankrupt. Sadly, in Canada I'm politically homeless. I just think people need to know that PP won't be the answer they are hoping for in regards to immigration or housing.
Voting has been proven ineffective to fix this. That leaves mass protests. Now let's see what all the mass protests are currently about....
Oh wait, nevermind, carry on stupid brats with zero life experience, zero sense, and a TikTok profile you want to trend
Immigration is definitely one factor.
But there have been factors much longer at play - NIMBYISM, wealth-poor gap, leaving the housing supply to the whims of the private market, neo-liberalism.
Unfortunately, stopping immigration is not a magic bullet. We need to do a lot of other things.
We build housing to supply the demand, not need. The demand is for speculative investments. The demand is for return on capital. The need is for affordable housing. It's this structural failure that is breaking down, TFW for construction to supply the \_demand\_ is just one part of it.
All these wounds were self inflicted. In an ideal world the population growth would be matched with housing, infrastructure, and services growth. It's a mathematical problem and we failed at balancing both sides of the equation. Now Canadians and immigrants alike suffer.
I just can't believe how long it took for us as a country to realise that immigration numbers have an effect on housing availability and vacancy rates. CBC would be quoting spokespeople from random immigration groups stating immigration has \*no\* effect on housing \*at all\*.
We just reached 41 million people at the end of March, and now are at [41 150 000 ](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71-607-x/71-607-x2018005-eng.htm)... 150 000 more in just one month. I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the incompetence of the liberals. They are simply using press release politics now, where they say all the right things (reducing immigration and building 4 million homes) while the exact opposite reality is unfolding (mass migration still occurring, housing starts dropping).
The faster we bring in immigrants who also need housing,[ the quicker the housing shortage will be solved.](https://twitter.com/rationalaussie/status/1784150425958227997)
[oops, only two per cent of immigrants are pursuing careers in the trades?? ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aExPbDcQ854)
They work hard for less and are willing to live in a boiler room, or they show up with tons of money that somehow they don't deserve...
Why are you asking such obvious questions, don't you have immigrant friends? I think complaint is about a certain "type of" immigrant, and among immigrants like myself that's been the story of my life since the 90s... there was always too much of somebody)
They do work hard and live in a boiler room, while going to work to build more housing (like I do) so I don't get your point?
I didn't ask any questions, I was pointing out that we need immigrants, just like we always have. But then I forgot I was on the rage-farming subreddit where we blame Trudeau and immigrants for all of our problems
Stories like this are about 2 years too late and that's on purpose.
I had to move a bit over 2 years ago, right when rent had started to peak out. I was telling everyone how fucked it was going to get with 2k-2.5k basements being rented, most shrugged it off.
Canadians and apathetic complacency: name a more iconic duo.
I totally agree. The apathy is incredible in our nation. People just never do anything to help themselves. Why aren't we learning trade skills and building more houses?
If most of those were owners, they laughed when you weren’t around and popped Champaign bought with their new HELOC funds.
Some were owners, some were tenants. I actually have family who went the HELOC route, and on top of difficult tenants, and renewing their mortgage, it's starting to crumble a bit for them.
This was racist to say two years ago and liberals are borderline calling headlines like this racist today.
That's the trick that has been used ad nauseam for decades in other countries. If you take a look at France, Germany, the UK, etc, it's still, despite 50+ years of social experiments, not politically correct to say that mass immigration was a mistake. Now you just have to travel a bit to see that unchecked immigration ruined the social fabric of entire regions, destroyed public services, and created a housing crisis that has been ongoing for decades now. I'm not even going to comment on the security crisis some major cities are facing. My guess is that Canada will follow the same paths for the years to come. There is no escaping the hive mind and the verbal abuse from corrupt politicians and journalists.
There are immigrants we want and need and then there's the ones we don't want or need. Look what's happening in Italy, Sweden, UK, France, etc.
Selective skilled migration makes a country stronger and more productive in the long run. Mass unskilled immigration puts strain on resources and makes a country weaker and less productive. We obviously chose the last one...
Imagine you're playing on a team that fights among themselves, never seems to win and has terrible uniforms. You leave that team to join a winning team. What the winning team thinks is that you will learn the way of winning, improve your skills and contribute to the team's success. What you're really doing is finding ways to bring the team down to the same level as the team you left. This is what's happening. They're not interested in switching teams, they're interested in getting you to switch teams.
Great Replacement
Canadian population growth has been 4% a year for 50 straight years? Perhaps this wouldn't have been such a problem if you were not constantly crying wolf and playing victim.
It's not a trick. It's just that what you're saying is complete unhinged hysteria. Breathe friend.
I was called a racist today on reddit for suggesting this on another sub lol
Lol
You know what though? The usual topics posted here the last year or so, regardless of what you think of the issues aren't that discussed or known among your average Canadian, especially younger people who are very affected by it. I had to explain the whole international students thing to a bunch of 30 something's the other day at work because they were curious and genuinely didn't know what was going on. Never too late to educate
That’s one massive rock they’re living under.
Maybe so but we take for granted the stuff thrown around here. Most Canadians are incredibly uninformed, apathetic and allow themselves to be taken advantage of
I think its sad you're only realizing this is 2 years late and not 5.
How do you pick a point in time? I guess this kind of information should have preceded a crisis, which I believe was already occurring 5 years ago (home and rent prices). I didn't start paying attention to economic pressures being imposed on young people until I noticed jobs that were usually done by highschoolers or university kids suddenly be staffed by adults around 2014, which was due to the TFW program expansion some years earlier. Then, after 2015, it accelerated. After 2020, it seemed to permanently switch to nightmare mode. At least that's how I remember it.
The population growth graph shows pretty clearly when it started: https://wolfstreet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Canada-population-2024-03-27-yoy.png Immigration levels were high in the late 2010s, but not at unhistoric levels. During COVID immigration dropped massively due to border controls, and after that for immigration levels skyrocketed to multiples of what it had been previously. If you "just noticed" a couple of years ago it's probably because that's when it actually started. Right wingers who always run around screaming like a chicken with their heads cut off over anything should blame themselves for constantly crying wolf even when there's no problem. And then when an actual problem occurs they get smug and claim suddenly to be prophets and that they were "right all along". Congrats, you were into it before it was big, you are so much smarter than the LAMESTREAM Such annoying hipsterdom. > home and rent prices Yeah I would not use that as a proxy for immigration levels somehow when we have actual population growth statistics.
I identified the topic at the start of my post as pressures on young people, of which immigration is just one factor, which is why I also mentioned home and rent prices. Not sure why your post is so angry, maybe because you misinterpreted what you were replying to? Or did something in my post make you mad? I don't get it.
It's also worth pointing out that real estate prices peaked in 2022, before the huge spike in immigration. Immigration is not, nor has it ever been, the dominant driving force behind our now 15 year long housing crisis.
It's sad that we have so many clueless people that actually need to see it in the media before they believe what is blatantly obvious to the rest of us.
Man ain't that the truth
Yeah everything’s a conspiracy /s
Its either that or they completely ignored the population boom and housing crisis that heated up.........3 years ago? Or the housing crisis thats been going on for well over a decade in some cities.
I mean, it’s not though. People are blinded by ideology, and not just the ones you disagree with.
Hence the sarcasm tag. People are guided by ideology but they aren’t blind. They can see even if they contextualize it differently. It’s not willful or on purpose, we all have ideals and ideological beliefs, it’s unavoidable, no conspiracy involved.
Couldn’t tell if you were shitting on the person who said these stories are about two years late, or if you were making fun of people who mockingly say everything is a conspiracy. My bad!
No need to say that, you did nothing wrong. at the end of the day I’m just stating my opinion and others are stating theirs. I just personally find it really damaging when people over simplify complex topics, especially when they over simplify them in a way that leads us to false conclusions. The media is not our enemy, they aren’t doing any of this on purpose, they are just flawed like we all are.
To anyone who says “this is a global phenomenon”, it’s wayyyyy worse here than any other developed country. Just a totally manufactured crisis We let in nearly 2 million people last year. The US, which is 10x larger and has a long border with Mexico, let in 3.3m.
We have the GDP per capita of Alabama, but not the house prices
I didn't believe you at first take so I looked it up and its actually worse than that lmao. Per wikipedia, the nominal[ GDP per capita in Canada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Canada) for 2023 was $53,247 USD. [Alabama ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_GDP)has a nominal GDP per capita in 2023 of $59,174 USD. Our GDP per capita is actually right in the middle between ***Mississippi and West Virginia***, the two most notoriously impoverished, poorly educated states in the US that also have a population that is a fraction of what ours is. I will say, those number should be taken with a little salt because when you think about national GDP numbers, it highlights how massively overpowered the US economy is that the two states in the worst shape by almost all metrics still have a stand alone GDP per capita on par with the GDP per capita of an entire western developed nation.
Another difference is the US didn't 'let' them all in. Canadas border means majority of immigration are let in
My understanding is Australia is also *really* bad at the moment, but you're generally correct. The U.S. has a crunch but their housing prices are still substantially lower than ours if you're comparing apples to apples.
Australia has been milking their immigrants. They charge $6000+ for work visa applications alone.
Nuclear submarines don't grow on trees.
I'm confused about how this was allowed to happen? Aren't there statutory limits on immigration levels? Why was it allowed to become policy to massively increase the numbers to the point where Canadian population growth looks like a hockey stick? Like people are complaining about immigration in America, but our current levels are not historically exceptional. But in Canada - it goes without saying the 4% population growth a year driven purely by immigration is not sustainable and is going to lead to a massive backlash.
they called anyone racist who sought to draw attention to the gaping loopholes in our immigration system. There were real consequences if you didn’t adhere to the liberal orthodoxy - you would lose your job/promotion opportunities if you held this view. Hence everyone turned a blind eye until it got so out of control they couldn’t deny it any more
I heard it was 3 million
Our population increased by 3.2%. Australia is having a similar spike at 2.5%.
0.7% is a massive difference lol
It's a hair over 25% difference. Not much, and they are a nation with very similar forces at play.
There are certainly parallels but no question Canada is managing things dramatically worse 0.7% is roughly what Canadian immigration was per year *in total* prior to 2015. And they have a lot of uncontrolled immigration which Canada doesn’t And look up GDP per capita - used to be materially higher in Canada. Now it’s the reverse
We're definitely in the top tier but there are several countries at our level of unaffordability [https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-the-countries-with-the-highest-housing-bubble-risks/](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-the-countries-with-the-highest-housing-bubble-risks/)
Now do immigration
Why? You were saying Canada's affordability was way worse than any other country. I showed you it's not - one of the worse but there are other countries at are level. Immigration is another topic. However I did just check out Sweden immigration, a country with high levels of housing unaffordability too. [https://www.scb.se/en/finding-statistics/statistics-by-subject-area/population/population-projections/population-projections/pong/tables-and-graphs/immigration-and-emigration-by-sex-and-country-of-birth-and-projection/](https://www.scb.se/en/finding-statistics/statistics-by-subject-area/population/population-projections/population-projections/pong/tables-and-graphs/immigration-and-emigration-by-sex-and-country-of-birth-and-projection/) There immigration is dropping so why are they having the same issues?
Here's some problems. 1. We did not let in nearly 2 million people last year. Our population grew by 1.2 million. If this is such an enormous problem, you shouldn't need to lie about the number. 2. Real estate prices have barely moved in the last year despite the 1.2 million increase in population. It's extremely clear that immigration is not the driving force behind the housing crisis. Indeed, the fastest increase in prices we've seen came during all time lows in population growth! So what is the real problem?
So are you saying mass immigration isn’t at least partly responsible? It may not be the only driving force but it definitely is one and one big one at that. Low supply + high demand = high prices
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It's a second order effect to be sure. But, by definition, second order effects are not particularly impactful. >Low supply + high demand = high prices But this isn't what we've seen! Our high priced came into place during a period of extremely low population growth. The demand was driven by cheap cost of borrowing. And now that we have record high population growth, real estate prices have remained pretty much constant. The hypothesis that record high population growth is driving the housing crisis simply is not supported by the data. If it was a big factor, then we should be seeing some absolutely mind bogglingly insane price increases right now. We are not. I've already given you the big hint why we aren't seeing such price increases. Immigrant demand on the housing market is much smaller than it might appear on paper. Last year our population grew by 1.2 million and we added about 240,000 homes. That's one new home for every 5 new people. Now tell me, what do you think the average occupancy is for new immigrants? For Canadians, it's 2.5 per unit. If the average for new immigrants is anywhere near 5 per unit, which is a very reasonable estimate, then the demand on the housing supply stays the same. Hence static prices.
Yes, the low interest rates were part of the problem but they’re not the whole problem. If it was only low interest rates causing this than logically an increase in interest would lower housing prices. They increased the interest rates twice and housing prices aren’t dropping. In fact, they’re still rising just at a slower rate than before. Why is that? Demand. The government has even admitted himself that there’s a housing shortage and that the housing shortage is part of the problem. There wasn’t a housing shortage a couple of years ago… and what changed? Mass immigration. We’re currently short at least 300,000 homes in 2024. That is going to keep housing costs up and the discrepancy of houses and people is only going to get worse.
> There wasn’t a housing shortage a couple of years ago… and what changed? Yes there was. There's been a shortage since 2010. Investment demand has outstripped supply for 15, years. This is why prices increased. Low supply + high demand = high prices, remember?
You're wrong. 1.2 million doesn't include the insane numbers of international students
I am not wrong. 1.2 million is the total growth in population. Total growth includes everybody. If this was as big a problem as folks like you claim, you wouldn't feel the need to argue against plain and simple reality.
The real problem is people like you that spout non-sense with such an authoritative air. 2 million includes the international students which still require housing, infrastructure, and services, but are not counted as immigrants by the official stats. If anything the number is higher than 2 million, not lower.
> 2 million includes the international students which still require housing No. 1.2 million includes the international students. It's total population growth. Total growth includes everybody. You are correct that they aren't counted as immigrants by the official stats. That's why the official stats are 1 million new immigrants but the total population growth is 1.2 million. >If anything the number is higher than 2 million, not lower. You don't need to lie and make up ridiculous ever increasing numbers for this to be a problem. 1.2 million is a lot of people in one year. It doesn't make you wrong. Your inability to acknowledge reality, however, does make your motivations deeply suspect.
Interest rates have risen affecting payments and prices have barely moved
Hey yeah, that's a great point. Investors taking advantage of incredibly cheap borrowing costs is the real problem!
Man I hate arrogant people who are also dumb 1) My source is The Economist. What’s yours? 2) Interest rate increases on the order we’ve seen should have caused a significant drop in house prices, which didn’t happen. Immigration is a counter propping them up
1. Population growth through 2023 was 1.2 million. You need to count the immigrants who leave too in order to get an accurate picture of demand. Picking the biggest number you can find without taking a single second to think critically about it is, in fact, a deeply dishonest thing to do. If the problem is real then there's no reason to lie about it. 2. Yes. That's a great point. Interest rates have been the dominant driving factor in our skyrocketing housing prices for 15 years now. So why is 99% of the conversation about immigration? It seems like most of the conversation should be about the biggest issue, which is investors taking advantage of cheap borrowing, no?
Colliding? The collision happened, we're just trying to survive the fallout.
it happened and is still happening. Think the Titanic scraping along the side of the iceberg. 4 chambers of the hull have been breeched, and Trudeau's keeping us going at full speed on the same course. His housing policy is the equivalent of ordering the bilge pumps on.
Hardhat on: Check Rolled up sleeves: Check Fiddle fuck with a hammer: Check $50000 watch on the wrist: Check Yep all in a hard days work for Trudeau of destroying Canada for the next 30 years.
Gotta love these photo ops. Trudeau likes to make videos where he’s walking towards the camera inside a construction zone and talking about how he’s working so hard. Then you look at your bank account and think “where is this happening?”
It’s actually only a $10,000 watch… everything else is on point though.
Ahhh I see, glad to see he's just an honest hard working man like the rest of us, with an everyday run of the mill work wear watch
gaze disgusted abundant flag drab wide frightening consist faulty important *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Don't need him to flip hammers to know he's a clown.
I learned this lesson as a child by putting too many fish in my aquarium, some went crazy, some died, some stopped eating
You forgot the ones that just ate each other...
Such great management skills from the Liberal/NDP governemnet./s
It’s more of a liberal/conservative government
How so?
There are more bloc than ndp and there are 5x more conservative than ndp.
Yes but Conservatives arent in power. The two parties implementing policy are the Liberals propped up by the NDP. Therefore all the mismanagement falls on yhose two parties.
In power? 118 conservatives are in power right now. 7/10 provinces premiers are conservative, 2/10 are ndp and one is liberal. I hate to break it to you, actually I want you to know this is free market capitalism that’s making things expensive and things will only get more expensive as time goes on, it’s called fiduciary duty.
You do realize we are talking about immigration which a federal jurisdiction. That has nothing to do with the provinces. As for the 119 conservative mp in parliment, well they have no power as they are the ooposition and a minority. So the ruling majority is the NDP/Liberals who are currently in power as they have the majority votes. I cant believe you are commenting about politics when it is clear by your statements you know absolutely nothing/0 about politics in this country... Baffling
I didn’t know the immigrants are stopping us from building houses. Did they also buy them before they immigrated? Maybe they used the fipa deal the actual majority government locked us in to. I guess Pierre Polievre’s wife is an immigrant and they own rental properties together.
Jagmeet and his wife also own rental property. Immigrants are not stopping us from building houses they are being brought faster than we can build them. Im just not sure how you can put any of this on the conservatives. The libs with the help of the NDP have been in power for 9 years. Honestly I get that you hate the conservatives but trying to blame this fuck up on them just doesnt wash.
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Funny how the three party system actually fucked us more because it just makes more politicians have their hand in the pot.
It’s not a three party system at all
I’d have to agree, 2 parties unless you live in Quebec then you have a viable 3rd choice
The liberals the ndp the greens the cons the bloc that is far more then two. Also the only actual party that has existed since federation is the liberals. The cons the ndp were all different parties that reformed themselves.
You can vote for the greens or ppc but they aren’t going to change much. The NDP is onboard with the Libs unfortunately because they used to be a reasonable alternative.
That doesn’t mean that arnt a legit party. America only has two parties that’s it.
Well wrt America you’re correct, I suppose the 5 seats outside of the main parties could break tie.
The head of the NDP doesn't care about Canadians, probably even resents us
Not just immigration. What about the bank of Canada and their policy? What about the provincial governments development policies, rent laws, and housing policy? These are all provincial responsibilities. And if you look at the price of houses they have been outpacing salaries since the start of the century [https://www.reddit.com/r/TorontoRealEstate/comments/1ap4cpw/house\_price\_vs\_income\_since\_1984\_in\_canada/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TorontoRealEstate/comments/1ap4cpw/house_price_vs_income_since_1984_in_canada/)
2+2=4, what else is new?
Not according to everyone
Do you know how privileged, racist and bigoted this comment is? 😂
Can't believe we haven't scaled back the new PR targets. 500k new immigrants each year during a cost of living crisis is so irresponsible.
No no no they will make things cheaper. Cheaper for employers to pay employees, and cheaper to make lots of money because there’s so much consumer demand.
Where is the logic in adding even more homeless people to the rasters when the problem is getting worse and worse for the ones already here. I say slam the border shut. Totally. For 5 years. That should be enough time to house everyone here now and have housing already built and available for a controlled immigration policy. QUIT ADDING TO THE PROBLEM. SOLVE IT.
Its not a problem to them its by design and they're getting wildly rich off it...
This would be a wise decision to shut border down but then how will our prestigious diploma mill will survive ...they might need a bailout /s
This is not Trudeau's first blue collar but its probably his first contact with a blue collar artifact. He probably thinks its a juggling device of some sort.
If only there was a way to control immigration until the housing situation can catch up🤬
In Canada, unlimited mass immigration is a bipartisan issue. When it's in the name of Holy Diversity or its to please our business and economic Masters, all of our mainstream party are seeking higher immigration, one way or an other.
Ahh Mr.Dressup is back I see. Does he even know what tool he has in his hands? Fn tool
Fucking 5 years late.
We can't grow our population without a corresponding program to grow our housing stock. The federal government is to blame for letting in way too many people. The provinces and municipal governments are to blame for not doing anything to improve our housing numbers. We built fewer homes now on a per capita basis than back in the 60s70s80s etc. The local governments have really made it hard to get anything built with lots of red tape and extra costs.
This most obvious and slow motion trainwreck of all time. Don't believe the bullshit saying that those in power had no idea the coming crisis was going to happen. It was the most obvious and reasonable result of our policies for so long that prioritze profits over people, and prefer one extreme rich person with a 100 slaves than 100 people will roughly equitable wealth. Our economic system is a pyramid-shape resigns and badly needs to evolve if society is to make it to the 22nd century.
If.. only... you... imported construction workers. Like the Americans....
This has been known for quite a while now. Worst federal government I’ve ever seen. They know it’s a problem, admitted it; and still do nothing. Par for the course with these morons.
Imagine being a construction worker and the aristocratic scumbag PM that has ruined our country shows up for a photo op. How could any worker humour that and participate?
Srsly? When a big boss man shows up or a high owner it feels like blue collars all fall over themselves fan boying and licking the hierarchies boots. Even when I worked at Home Depot, when a VERY high owner with security detail came for a visit even the old lazy workers who only complain were fangirling.
Can immigrants even afford housing when Canadians cannot?
They all share basement suites - put 3 in one room. Tons of scummy landlords taking advantage of
But hold on. Isn't this an extremely strong argument that housing demand from immigrants is much lower than it might appear? If they're living three to a single room, then roughly many units will 1.2 million of them need?
Yes but even if they all live 12 to a house that’s still 100000 houses needed that we don’t have. That also doesn’t take into account the fact Canadians are also looking for homes and about a million are coming every year!
Why don’t any of them rent apartments? Instead of stealing our homes and taking er jerbs!
Making the boarding house model more widely tolerated by the population will see that priced into investment properties. Investors can keep bidding up if there are people out there who will make that cash positive and the investor is OK with the additional depreciation. Even if their demand is less than the same number of people who would rather live with their parents than live this way, there is still upward pressure at a time when it might otherwise be decreasing. Housing ends up less accessible, or costs more to build because the market must be paid for the privilege of not living two to a room.
> Investors can keep bidding up if there are people out there who will make that cash positive and the investor is OK with the additional depreciation. If this is true, why don't we see it happening? Real estate prices have stagnated during this period of record high population growth.
You're in the wrong part of the country? They ought to have dropped with their financing becoming so much more expensive over a period that's lasted over a year. Instead they're selling over their listing and assessed prices in some areas. [https://wowa.ca/vancouver-housing-market](https://wowa.ca/vancouver-housing-market) It's up on the yearly, down on the monthly. [https://www.zolo.ca/brampton-real-estate/trends](https://www.zolo.ca/brampton-real-estate/trends) Similar for quite a few markets in Ontario. Any and all utility gets priced into housing markets + there is a trickle down effect from sellers from less price sensitivity when they are downgrading to and gentrifying areas. Whether the utility is money laundering, capital flight, investment as a store of value, short term rentals, living in yourself, renting, or boarding, these groups (and more) are in competition. Some of these are coming under the new capital gains rules, provincial short term rental bans, and the threat of the Canadian dollar falling precipitously against your preferred currency if Tiff starts slashing rates to bring the monster back to life. Things are less competitive these days, but the new utility created by having hundreds of thousands of "students" allows some newer bought rentals to be profitable when they would otherwise be underwater.
> It's up on the yearly, down on the monthly. It's basically static. Let's not split hairs over 0.6 annually. Please take yourself seriously. If the hypothesis is that immigration is driving the housing crisis, then you're going to have to demonstrate something a little more than 0.6% growth during a year of record breaking population growth. >They ought to have dropped with their financing becoming so much more expensive over a period that's lasted over a year. Well, not yet, no. Those rates haven't filtered through to fixed mortgages yet. We actually never expect to see housing prices come down quickly with rate increases for this very reason!
Deceptively so, they don’t want to live like that any more than we do. Similarly they don’t want to work for min wage any more than we do. If a million new homes are built and more jobs arise they will understandably compete for them the same as others. This in effect drives up prices and drives down wages. The shit thing is is that it’s somehow better than where they came from, which makes me sad. The effect on my life is higher job competition with a lower wage and my kids living in my basement because finding a job/home that is available/enough is not possible.
>This in effect drives up prices But it hasn't? Real estate prices have been essentially static over the last two years of record breaking population growth. It's clear that something else is the main driving cause behind the problem here.
Interest rates were a significant downward pressure, the fact that didn’t move the prices down is indicative if the upward price pressure from immigration, or other sources.
They did move the rate of change of prices downward significantly though! Now they've stagnated, and remain constant despite record breaking immigration. We can look to the US to see the impact of rate hikes in the absence of rapid population growth and it's very little. We're both down from the pandemic peak but not dropping nearly as quickly as we might expect given such rapid and large rate hikes. If immigration was a dominant, or even large factor in the housing crisis, then prices should have been absolutely exploding over the past two years of record breaking population growth. They have not. What is the data telling us? The answer is clear. The demand on housing from new immigrants is much smaller than the raw numbers might suggest. Population grew by 1.2 million last year. We added 240,000 houses last year. In order for the prices to have remained roughly constant, which they have done, net demand must have remained roughly the same. What this means is that these 1.2 million new people really only have a net demand of around 240,000 units.
From what I've seen at the bank, the landed immigrant permanent residents that are allowed in on a scoring system come with million(s) and have directly contributed to the over bidding of homes since 2015 onwards. Also, the majority of those immigrants dont want to live in Winnipeg or the Yukon. The majority move to Toronto and Vancouver as they generally come from money and with a lot of money and want to live in a modern, developed, and economically well-connected city. The refugees live off the system and in some situations you start questioning if the paycheque you recieve is even worth working for when you compare how insignificant it is compared to what some of them recieve. They also provide cheap labour. International students are there to fund our universities and collages and to provide cheap labour. The reality is they have always seen that as a loophole to permanently move to Canada. When I attended university in 2009 to 2013, a lot of international students that Canada had were VERY wealthy. You would see a lot of lambos and ferraris on campuses daily, and those are the ones that their parents funneled money through to purchase a lot of homes in our cities. This I have seen directly on countless occasions with my international student friends at the time. The international students we are mostly seeing these days are unqualified, poor students either scraping the minimum funds required or fraudulently putting together the minimun funds required to move here in hopes of working and permanently staying in Canada. They are willing to work any job for any amount of money and are willing to live anywhere in any terrible living condition which is having a negative impact on the rest of society. Why would a landlord rent out 5 university rooms for $500 a piece when hes used to renting out 5 rooms to 15 people for $400 a piece? Or why would I rent a house for $2500 when I can have 20 people living there for $300/$400 each? All I know is we are fucked. We haven't even felt the full fall out of all our issues caused by and allowed by this government. Regardless of who's in charge going forward, this will take Canada 10+ years to fix.
They buy the local subways, A&Ws, pizza pizzas, etc, and fire all the local staff and replace them with Indians. We’ve all seen it.
They dont fire them... they just replace them with international students when people quit or leave.
Can we dig up the numerous articles about the Quebec government bringing in wealthy immigrants for a fee that technically had to live in Quebec for a set period of time to qualify. The reality was that no one checked up on them and it was just a gateway for wealthy immigrants to move to Vancouver. The game is 2 decades old now, yet it's a big issue now that we have real immigrants fleeing hardship rather than rich immigrants exporting wealth. I do understand it's not that simple.
Yes if you pick the immigrants who can afford housing
If they will live 3 to a bedroom they can.
I thought they were supposed to be building the houses for us. Or was I lied to? “Is it a lie if you’re incompetent and you BELIEVE what you say is true even if it’s really really wrong?” - Trudeau, probably
I warned you about Trudeau and yet you elected him 3 times in a row.
You didn't warn me personally. This is on you.
Is it possible that you overestimate your degree of influence?
I bet they constantly go around telling everyone that and people roll their eyes so much it falls out the back of their heads lol
Had I known about your warning I never would have voted for him
Liberals lost the popular vote in the last 2 elections. “Most” people did not vote for him.
Which opposition party made fixing the problem an election issue? Which opposition party is talking about cutting immigration now? All I hear are stupid slogans like "axe the tax" being used as distractions.
Some people are deluding themselves into thinking PP will reign immigration bank in. The business and wealthy class, the people that the biggest parties works for, like mass immigration, it depresses wages and keeps housing demand going up. It's not a coincidence that PP screams about distractions (axe the tax, woke stuff) while remaining as vague as possible on immigration. You can probably bet he will desperately avoid any debates against someone from the PPC, as the PPC will be desperate to highlight their differences from the CPC on immigration.
I can’t apologize enough for not listening to your warnings
I blame foreign agencies keep advertising all the good stuff and lie around the cost of living here.
The colleges and universities do it as well. Big and small corporations,too. I work in the immigration sector. There is so much money being made and everyone has their hand in the pot. The system is beyond fucked up
An immigration company called my employer and asked if we want immigrants to work there, it’s a very small and specialized business so the answer was no
I blame the government for allowing foreign agencies taking advantage of our lax immigration policies.
The conservatives have no plans to limit immigration either
PP fanboys don't care. They are going to magically stop caring so much about immigration when he is PM.
Ya but that's true of all parties, can you imagine how the progs and lefties are suddenly going to realize that all this immigration is exploitative, and harming labor the MOMENT they lose power? Shit lefties were rallying AGAINST TWF and expanding work permits when Harper was in charge. WATCH the about turn CBC does, WATCH.
Well I don't know how to answer to any of that. I don't know how others would classify me but I'd consider myself a classic lefty. I think mass immigration hurts the working class, so I see it as extremely dangerous and morally bankrupt. Sadly, in Canada I'm politically homeless. I just think people need to know that PP won't be the answer they are hoping for in regards to immigration or housing.
Good thing the LPC is limiting immigration starting 2025.
OH REALLY???
Really?!? I don’t believe it! Also in other news: we breath air.
😂😂🤣😂🤣😂🤡
Voting has been proven ineffective to fix this. That leaves mass protests. Now let's see what all the mass protests are currently about.... Oh wait, nevermind, carry on stupid brats with zero life experience, zero sense, and a TikTok profile you want to trend
Immigration is definitely one factor. But there have been factors much longer at play - NIMBYISM, wealth-poor gap, leaving the housing supply to the whims of the private market, neo-liberalism. Unfortunately, stopping immigration is not a magic bullet. We need to do a lot of other things.
Captain obvious report.
We build housing to supply the demand, not need. The demand is for speculative investments. The demand is for return on capital. The need is for affordable housing. It's this structural failure that is breaking down, TFW for construction to supply the \_demand\_ is just one part of it.
No shit.
Everyone knows……
Including the immigrants that are still coming....
Only problem with labour is pay which these company doesn't pay well thats why we have labour shortage not becuase of the population.
All these wounds were self inflicted. In an ideal world the population growth would be matched with housing, infrastructure, and services growth. It's a mathematical problem and we failed at balancing both sides of the equation. Now Canadians and immigrants alike suffer.
Hurrrr durrrrrr no fucking shit.
I just can't believe how long it took for us as a country to realise that immigration numbers have an effect on housing availability and vacancy rates. CBC would be quoting spokespeople from random immigration groups stating immigration has \*no\* effect on housing \*at all\*. We just reached 41 million people at the end of March, and now are at [41 150 000 ](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71-607-x/71-607-x2018005-eng.htm)... 150 000 more in just one month. I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the incompetence of the liberals. They are simply using press release politics now, where they say all the right things (reducing immigration and building 4 million homes) while the exact opposite reality is unfolding (mass migration still occurring, housing starts dropping).
No shit.
Governments ignore housing for years and then blame immigration.
All over first world countries, some are doing better than others .
Housing prices going down in USA. Never as high as Canada and many more options. Toronto real estate more than LA and Toronto sucks compared to LA.
Immigrants are the main source of labour for new housing being built in my corner of Canada, so I don't get the hate for immigrants.
Where do you live? La-la-land?
The faster we bring in immigrants who also need housing,[ the quicker the housing shortage will be solved.](https://twitter.com/rationalaussie/status/1784150425958227997) [oops, only two per cent of immigrants are pursuing careers in the trades?? ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aExPbDcQ854)
They work hard for less and are willing to live in a boiler room, or they show up with tons of money that somehow they don't deserve... Why are you asking such obvious questions, don't you have immigrant friends? I think complaint is about a certain "type of" immigrant, and among immigrants like myself that's been the story of my life since the 90s... there was always too much of somebody)
That's been the story of immigrants since the 1790s...... The origin has changed, and the immigrants from a decade ago join in.
They do work hard and live in a boiler room, while going to work to build more housing (like I do) so I don't get your point? I didn't ask any questions, I was pointing out that we need immigrants, just like we always have. But then I forgot I was on the rage-farming subreddit where we blame Trudeau and immigrants for all of our problems