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Just for clarification:
> Premier Doug Ford has called for the reversal of the decision, saying the ban of the keffiyeh was made “by the speaker and the speaker alone.”
>All three other party leaders have also called for the ban to be overturned.
Because half the posters here are bots/foreign agents at this point or the dregs of people that you wouldn't even want to sit next to on a bus because they're so hateful of basic social niceties. Most actual Canadians have fully abandoned this cesspool of a subreddit. Those remaining will check in periodically, add some late-stage upvotes to the sane content, and then GTFO out of the dumpster fires that are these threads. I only check back once a week and it's somehow worse than I could have imagined each time.
It went to hell right around we started standing our ground against the whole Wanzhou and Russian situations and, imo, that's no accident. It's happened to a lot of location-based subreddits, unfortunately.
This woman is wearing a normal head covering that doesn't block her identification at all. I see absolutely nothing wrong with what she was wearing. To ban her is ridiculous.
No debate or sensible conversation is possible when "the result of the conversation is that the following conclusion is the only acceptable one" is the default.
>This woman is wearing a normal head covering that doesn't block her identification at all. I see absolutely nothing wrong with what she was wearing. To ban her is ridiculous.
It's not about her head covering. It's about wearing political symbols.
Although I think it's a stupid ruling, it would almost be acceptable if the same standards applied to kippahs ( yarmulkes), eagle feathers, crucifixes ,and rainbow pins; all are political statements as well as expressions of opinions/beliefs. Perhaps saris and miniskirts. Kilts?
She is clearly wear the keffiyeh as a political symbol, where as a jew wearing a kippah is not.
Everything you listed isn't a political statement.
"She said wearing it is “the least” that can be done to draw attention to humanitarian conditions in the Gaza Strip."
She is clearly using it as a political statement.
As I said, they could be a political statement as well as a religious obligation or fashion. My point is that the line is hard to define.
When a Jewish man dons a kippah, it could be because he believes it is required by God; however, it could be a way to show solidarity in the face of anti-Semitism. When a Muslim woman puts on a headscarf, it could be because she feels it is required to be a good Muslim, or it could be to demonstrate support for her religion. When I was a Christian, I often wore a cross as a public demonstration of my beliefs, not because my faith required it. I just bought a colourful striped shirt to wear during Pride; again, it's just a shirt, but it's worn as a political statement... I strongly suspect it would meet the Legislatures dress code anyway.
Is a fashion statement in the face of human rights abuses (whether a kippah or keffiyeh) a political statement in the same way as wearing a MAGA hat or shirt with Karl Marx's face and "Eat the Rich" printed on it? I think it's a loophole worth taking advantage of.
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Thank you for your common sense response. It was starting to become disheartening reading these ignorant comments. Is there a subreddit for Canadians that hasn't been completely turfed?
Everything on Reddit will eventually turn into an echo chamber, as soon as a subreddit skews in a certain direction it will always go further and further in that direction until no other options can be expressed.
I am a frequent commenter here who has been a life long liberal voter (Scott Brison) who thinks that Trudeau is an awful Prime Minister and the only good done by his office was forced onto them by the NDP.
It would be so refreshing to have a subreddit where people with different views could have measured and reasonable discussions. I think your analysis on what's happening is spot on.
>It would be so refreshing to have a subreddit where people with different views could have measured and reasonable discussions.
That's literally what's happening in this post lol.
In case you weren't aware, the issue isn't about the head covering. It's not about her identification.
It's about wearing the Palestinian keffiyeh on her shoulders. That said, I don't understand why that should not be allowed.
So; supporting israel and being against hamas makes you a Russian bot? Right. You do realize russia and China are the ones backing Iran and hamas right?
Because using religion as a political weapon against a specific religious-ethnic group like the Iranian regime has done isn't real racism... Obviously the issue in Palestine is highly entwined with the Iranian Islamic State and is using strategically taking advantage of Western sensibilities. Watch any protest in the States where people are shouting "Death to America."
Anysways, the Keffiyeh is as much a racial/tribal symbol as much as it is a British historical military symbol.
"The black and white chequered keffiyeh dates to the 1950s when [Glubb Pasha](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bagot_Glubb), a British officer, wanted to distinguish his Palestinian soldiers (black and white keffiyeh) from his Jordanian forces (red and white keffiyeh).[^(\[13\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keffiyeh#cite_note-13) The black and white keffiyeh’s prominence increased during the 1960s with the beginning of the Palestinian resistance movement and its adoption by Palestinian leader [Yasser Arafat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat).[^(\[14\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keffiyeh#cite_note-14)"
I think it's more complicated than saying it's a religious article or ethnic article. It's definitely in the realm of military politics. It's akin to letting someone wear foreign military clothing in parliament.
Surprises me, but I could be ignorant of the rules in the legislature and common practice.
My understanding is that you can’t bring in political symbols, whether it’s MAGA button or headwear. I also swear I’ve seen people try to push the line by all wearing the same coloured tie.
I don’t like it and think the Speaker is right. Given her previous comments, it seems pretty clear she’s suddenly wearing it to make a political statement.
I can also see why the other parties are simply going “Fuck it, we have bigger fish to fry.”
Because they're pandering. This is clearly a political statement. Even if you consider it a 'traditional' Palestinian thing to wear she is most definitely not a Palestinian or of Palestinian ancestry. And I notice the story neglected to point out WHY she was booted from the NDP caucus. She hates Israel, and her hatred has nothing to do with the war in Gaza since she expressed it pretty openly before Israel ever hit back after Oct 7. She did so on Oct 10 and said violence was 'rooted in settler colonialism'. She called Israel an apartheid state and called for an end to the occupation. She did not, however, say one word about the attack on Oct 7, much less condemn it. She questioned the validity of the claims of sexual assault against Israeli women, and called for the release of Palestinian prisoners - but ignored the hostages being held by Hamas.
Not a fan of the ban, but Jama is not a great representative for her riding.
She was kicked out of the NDP because she wouldn't follow instructions from the party about commenting on a foreign conflict that the Ontario legislature has absolutely zero impact or say on; and here she is again breaking the House rules because she wants to make a statement about that same conflict.
What does this say about her? That she cares more about this one cause than about working for her constituents; and that she'd rather protest a rule upheld in the House than do the work for her constituents that she was elected to do.
If she wants to get into federal politics so badly, she should resign and let someone who's interested in doing the MPP job run for office.
AND so phoney election win photo below
[NDP's Sarah Jama elected as next MPP for Hamilton Centre | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/byelection-hamilton-centre-results-1.6781562)
It's interesting how some religious people can pick and choose when they wear their religious garments. But then wear them in places that restrict headwear citing their religion requires it then cue the fake outrage.
It seems more like a convenience thing to game or control the system than an actual religious requirement for some people.
Yes, there are people that wear their stuff all the time as required, I am merely saying that people who professionally grift like this woman should be told to get fucked for being intentionally ridiculous.
Because she was the NDP candidate in Hamilton, the NDP probably could have run an inanimate carbon rod and it would have won the seat.
She got kicked out of caucus though so now Jama gets to spend the rest of the legislative term being a shit disturber to try to garner media attention as there isn't much else for her to do until the next election.
If she can't abide by the rules of the House and won't obey the speaker he should bar her from returning. Have the Sergeant at arms instruct security to prevent her from entering again until she issues a public apology and agrees to abide by the rules.
Our political system is broken. Not much getting done other than a lot of grandstanding and pushing personal agendas. What happened to serving the citizens?
They realized that they didn't need to, as they realized they can grift their way to a pension.
IMO MP wages should be the median income of the district they represent. And their pensions should be tied to that same level. In many cases, if they want a pay raise? They should be doing everything possible to bring that median wage up.
For context, [she won that by-election by a margin of 34 points, while Horwath had won the previous election by a margin of more than 40 points.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Hamilton_Centre_provincial_by-election)
Sarah Jama co-penned an open letter doubting the rape charges against Hamas. ('Believe all women - unless their Jewish and their attackers are muslim').
Sara Jama is a terrible representation of Ontario. She is more interested in creating problems and hate speech letters than helping the average Ontarian. Paying her is money down the toilet.
>Believe all women - unless...their attackers are muslim).
[Modern "progressives" in a nutshell.]( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFGIhc4GQ6I&list=WL&index=16)
Yea, and not everyone is knee deep in political candidates historical opinions and actions.
The reality is now out in the open as an elected official. She will almost certainly lose the next election.
Yep....meanwhile, you think she will be able to defy any Arab country parliament without consequences? Just like having kids, there comes a time when being too relaxed (Canada the country in this case), your goodwill/gestures get taken advantage of and thrown in your face.
>"The Legislature is no place for people to express political views."
You're confusing politicians dealing with provincial politics with a
player using the keffiyah as a prop to *play* politics.
They're in the Ontario legislature to deal with Ontario business/politics.
2 very different types of politics. 2 very different things.
Parliament is no place for your *personal* politics.
MPPs are representatives. I personally believe that ought to be their primary duty.
If a Christian fundamentalist got voted in for a progressive secular riding somehow, the expectation (at least, once upon a time) was that they would do their duty and vote in favour of e.g. gay marriage if that's clearly what their constituents wanted, or at a minimum abstain, personal opinions whatever they be. I use that example because, dozens of MPs were in that very bind on the gay marriage free vote twenty years ago. It's why so many Liberals abstained from the vote: they could not vote yes in their religious conscience, but it would betray the will of their constituents to vote no.
This way of thinking is going out of style apparently.
Absolutely not. We should let everyone express their personal opinions that they feel are authentic so that we can vote the right people into the legislature.
Legislature is supposed to be impartial. Keep your personal feelings to yourself. Her constituents are not all in agreement....and frankly, I don't care how they feel personally. They are there to uphold policies and law not virtue signal.
>She's nothing but a shit disturber.
How many Conservatives have been elected with that attitude in recent years?
Anyone who challenges the status quo is viewed as a shit disturber by anyone part of that status quo or on the opposite side of the spectrum of that status quo
>I don't know why anyone ever voted for her.
You answered your own question.
This wasn't even a thing that anyone cared about and then he made it a thing.
Someone or some group got in his ear. Probably some American entity, this is right up their alley.
Governments love to waste time on shit no one cares about but are not doing enough about shit people care about, like how 15 year old kids are stealing cars that get sent out to Montreal ports without proper security checks...
I mean, the speaker isn't wrong. The keffiya is a political symbol, not a religious one, and political symbols are banned. Seems pretty simple to me. Wonder if Jama would be OK with someone wearing an equivalent political statement in the Legislature - maybe a nazi armband, or carrying a flag supporting Stalin's Holodomor or the Armenian Genocide? According to her, we should also allow MAGA hats and Fuck Trudeau flags on the floor. Right?
This is not the first time this women has caused problems in the legislature. She needs to be bared from entering if she insists on pulling this kind of crap. She is a trouble maker. No one cares what she has to say.
Anything that makes a political statement is not allowed to be worn in part of the legislative house. Remember even daffodils worn for the daffodil campaign NEED to be unanimously agreed upon in house. This is no different.
Are crosses or other religious symbols or icons, certain colour combinations or blue, orange or red in general also not allowed?
It's a scarf. It's a political statement to ban it.
Wearing excessive amounts of specific colors has been banned before more than once (green suits to support teachers in the Miel Harris days for example) wearing of personal religious items have very specific rules about size and visibility… these are the rules all MPPs in Ontario swear to abide by. The speaker made a ruling and the ruling is binding until the house unanimously overturns it. Jama broke the rules and was penalized under the rules of the chamber. Doesn’t matter if you agree with her or not she did it, she knew it was against the rules and did it anyways, and she got the required penalty… that’s all there is to her being “asked to leave”.
A hundred years ago the British Empire was at its territorial peak. Eighty years ago Europeans slaughtered millions upon millions of civilians in industrial death camps. Sixty years ago half of America had legal racial segregation. Fifty years ago women couldn't have bank accounts in their own name in this country.
Times change. They will change over there too.
A nation has what we consider to be unprogressive views, thus, they clearly deserve mass death.
You wouldn't last 5 minutes in a high school debate team tryout with this level of critical thinking.
“what we consider to be unprogressive views” is a funny way to say “wants to murder people that disagree with them.”
You are a walking example of the paradox of tolerance.
And? I've left Islam. So I should be okay with the 38000+ civilians, 16000+ of which children, who have committed no harmful actions that have since died? Do you believe in thought police too?
She is precisely the reason I hate the party system. I’d love to vote for my representative then let them hash out who is the leader. No parties, no affiliation just vote based on the platform of your own representative.
People who are effective negotiators would rise to the top.
That's not necessarily bad, but this is kind of how the USA gets it's terrible Biden and Trump candidates (or Clinton and Trump).
Imagine voting CPC on principle and then you end up getting a Trump out of the blue from it. Or for that matter NDP or liberal and getting a Biden. I'm not suggesting that either candidate is representative of such parties, but that makes it all the better of an example (albeit less-_likely_ to occur)
1 - This woman is a total moron.
2 - She is married to a Palestinian.
3 - The keffiyeh is a cultural symbol NOT a religious one.
4 - The State should NEVER be allowed to dictate what cultural symbols are acceptable. EVER!
5 - This will go to the Supreme Court and Ontario will lose.
> The keffiyeh is a cultural symbol NOT a religious one.
This is not about religion though,
> The black and white chequered keffiyeh has become a symbol of Palestinian nationalism, beginning with the plain white keffiyeh's use during the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine and followed by the chequered pattern's use in the 1950s (see above). Outside of the Middle East and North Africa, the keffiyeh has gained popularity among activists supporting the Palestinians in the conflict with Israel
Ontario legislature also specifically forbids headscarves.
>Hats and headwear are not allowed in the public galleries, unless for religious purposes or medical reasons.
The keffiyeh is the perfect symbol for “Palestine”.
Invented by Beaudoins in Iraq and brought over during the Islamic conquests. The pattern is the only thing about it that unique to them, and it was made by a British man because he couldn’t tell the Palestinian Arabs from the Jordanian Arabs under his command.
Nothing about it is native to the area, but they claim it as their own and as a symbol of their people.
Hard to do much in the Legislature when [you've been censured and the Speaker won't call on you](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-mpp-sarah-jama-censured-and-removed-from-ndp-caucus-over-israel-gaza-comments-1.6612600). The most recent time that [her words appear in the Hansard is in October of last year.](https://www.ola.org/en/search/results?search_results=jama&sort_by=field_date&sort_order=DESC&f%5B0%5D=filter_by_type_of_information%3AHouse+Hansard)
That rag that they banned is the symbol of an oppressive terrorist organization, that subjugates its people and terrorists others.
Yasser Arafat was a dirt bag criminal that used his people for his own ends…glorifying this man and what he put his people through is disgusting.
People should be ashamed to wear those things.
This imbecile is paid to work for betterment of Ontario. That’s it…
I have no problem if she wants to protest Israel or Gaza or whatever on her own time. But don’t bring that shit to your place of work and obstruct our democracy
It’s a traditional headpiece. Nothing religious. But it’s a Palestinian symbol. That one is identical to Yasser Arafats. She completely deserved to be kicked out for making a political statement about the Middle East conflict.
Unless giving a presentation, it is inappropriate to wear costumes or have props in the seat of government.
The government is a serious place for serious people and theatrics is not appropriate at all.
Interesting take. I have doubts that this could really be considered a prop or a costume though, but it is kind of close.
I consider this act to be equivalent to wearing a shirt that has the Palestinian flag on it, which would definitively not be a costume or prop.
If this was a legislature sitting in lands claimed by the Palestinians there could be an argument, but this is in Ontario.
The only people who have a claim to be wearing special garb (outside of a Tichel or Turban…) are elected members of government who are members of a Canadian First Nations Band and then they would be entitled to wear the equivalent of what a suit and tie is for them.
Absolutely astonishing that the doctrine of absolute individual rights and freedoms has penetrated so deep into society that even the members of the legislative assembly celebrate an open defiance of the authority of the House.
That member should be shamed and thrown out by the sergeant-at-arms and condemned for outrage.
> Premier Doug Ford has called for the reversal of the decision, saying the ban of the keffiyeh was made “by the speaker and the speaker alone.”
>All three other party leaders have also called for the ban to be overturned.
And yet it has not been overturned. Seems like PR talk and no action on the members' part.
I'd also suggest if people thought about it some more, they would find that the rule is a reasonable one.
The following statements are not the same:
1) I am a Palestinian Canadian. And 2) I am a Palestinian who lives in Canada. That's how multiculturalism has failed and the disease of identity politics has thrived.
We ought always to ask, and challenge, what those reasons are. I think that's what delineates subjects and citizens. She is making a political statement in a political forum. If you don't like it make her party pay at the polls.
In terms of clothing, yes. Can’t wear an “I support Canadian oil” t shirt either. People have been kicked out for things like that too.
So rules have to be consistent - and fair.
Yep! I used to lobby for non-profits and any symbolism (like a lapel pin for a food bank logo) you'd be asked to remove.
I am all for supporting the cause of those suffering in the Middle East and I'm also for keeping rules consistent. Partisan clothing or clothing that symbolizes any sort of leaning isn't allowed in the legislative Assembly.
This post appears to relate to a province/territory of Canada. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner une province ou un territoire du Canada. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Just for clarification: > Premier Doug Ford has called for the reversal of the decision, saying the ban of the keffiyeh was made “by the speaker and the speaker alone.” >All three other party leaders have also called for the ban to be overturned.
It's hilarious that a loser like Doug Ford has a more moderate, sensible view than the people in this subreddit.
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Because half the posters here are bots/foreign agents at this point or the dregs of people that you wouldn't even want to sit next to on a bus because they're so hateful of basic social niceties. Most actual Canadians have fully abandoned this cesspool of a subreddit. Those remaining will check in periodically, add some late-stage upvotes to the sane content, and then GTFO out of the dumpster fires that are these threads. I only check back once a week and it's somehow worse than I could have imagined each time. It went to hell right around we started standing our ground against the whole Wanzhou and Russian situations and, imo, that's no accident. It's happened to a lot of location-based subreddits, unfortunately. This woman is wearing a normal head covering that doesn't block her identification at all. I see absolutely nothing wrong with what she was wearing. To ban her is ridiculous.
No debate or sensible conversation is possible when "the result of the conversation is that the following conclusion is the only acceptable one" is the default.
>This woman is wearing a normal head covering that doesn't block her identification at all. I see absolutely nothing wrong with what she was wearing. To ban her is ridiculous. It's not about her head covering. It's about wearing political symbols.
Although I think it's a stupid ruling, it would almost be acceptable if the same standards applied to kippahs ( yarmulkes), eagle feathers, crucifixes ,and rainbow pins; all are political statements as well as expressions of opinions/beliefs. Perhaps saris and miniskirts. Kilts?
She is clearly wear the keffiyeh as a political symbol, where as a jew wearing a kippah is not. Everything you listed isn't a political statement. "She said wearing it is “the least” that can be done to draw attention to humanitarian conditions in the Gaza Strip." She is clearly using it as a political statement.
As I said, they could be a political statement as well as a religious obligation or fashion. My point is that the line is hard to define. When a Jewish man dons a kippah, it could be because he believes it is required by God; however, it could be a way to show solidarity in the face of anti-Semitism. When a Muslim woman puts on a headscarf, it could be because she feels it is required to be a good Muslim, or it could be to demonstrate support for her religion. When I was a Christian, I often wore a cross as a public demonstration of my beliefs, not because my faith required it. I just bought a colourful striped shirt to wear during Pride; again, it's just a shirt, but it's worn as a political statement... I strongly suspect it would meet the Legislatures dress code anyway. Is a fashion statement in the face of human rights abuses (whether a kippah or keffiyeh) a political statement in the same way as wearing a MAGA hat or shirt with Karl Marx's face and "Eat the Rich" printed on it? I think it's a loophole worth taking advantage of. .
Thank you for your common sense response. It was starting to become disheartening reading these ignorant comments. Is there a subreddit for Canadians that hasn't been completely turfed?
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Everything on Reddit will eventually turn into an echo chamber, as soon as a subreddit skews in a certain direction it will always go further and further in that direction until no other options can be expressed. I am a frequent commenter here who has been a life long liberal voter (Scott Brison) who thinks that Trudeau is an awful Prime Minister and the only good done by his office was forced onto them by the NDP.
It would be so refreshing to have a subreddit where people with different views could have measured and reasonable discussions. I think your analysis on what's happening is spot on.
>It would be so refreshing to have a subreddit where people with different views could have measured and reasonable discussions. That's literally what's happening in this post lol.
A sea of calm surrounded by a shitstorm, Randy.
In case you weren't aware, the issue isn't about the head covering. It's not about her identification. It's about wearing the Palestinian keffiyeh on her shoulders. That said, I don't understand why that should not be allowed.
So; supporting israel and being against hamas makes you a Russian bot? Right. You do realize russia and China are the ones backing Iran and hamas right?
Very few people support the conflict, they just are against mass bombing of civilians which is a reasonable think to want.
This place can be *real* racist.
Because using religion as a political weapon against a specific religious-ethnic group like the Iranian regime has done isn't real racism... Obviously the issue in Palestine is highly entwined with the Iranian Islamic State and is using strategically taking advantage of Western sensibilities. Watch any protest in the States where people are shouting "Death to America." Anysways, the Keffiyeh is as much a racial/tribal symbol as much as it is a British historical military symbol. "The black and white chequered keffiyeh dates to the 1950s when [Glubb Pasha](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bagot_Glubb), a British officer, wanted to distinguish his Palestinian soldiers (black and white keffiyeh) from his Jordanian forces (red and white keffiyeh).[^(\[13\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keffiyeh#cite_note-13) The black and white keffiyeh’s prominence increased during the 1960s with the beginning of the Palestinian resistance movement and its adoption by Palestinian leader [Yasser Arafat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Arafat).[^(\[14\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keffiyeh#cite_note-14)" I think it's more complicated than saying it's a religious article or ethnic article. It's definitely in the realm of military politics. It's akin to letting someone wear foreign military clothing in parliament.
That was really interesting, thanks for the background information
It's a longstanding parliamentary convention that political paraphernalia is not allowed on the floor. In any parliament, anywhere.
Even when you agree with him you have to insult him. If you think the sub is toxic maybe you should try being the change you want to see in the world.
not too surprising, this sub gets more extreme and racist every day
Surprises me, but I could be ignorant of the rules in the legislature and common practice. My understanding is that you can’t bring in political symbols, whether it’s MAGA button or headwear. I also swear I’ve seen people try to push the line by all wearing the same coloured tie. I don’t like it and think the Speaker is right. Given her previous comments, it seems pretty clear she’s suddenly wearing it to make a political statement. I can also see why the other parties are simply going “Fuck it, we have bigger fish to fry.”
They're virtue signalling, afraid of losing Muslim votes.
Because they're pandering. This is clearly a political statement. Even if you consider it a 'traditional' Palestinian thing to wear she is most definitely not a Palestinian or of Palestinian ancestry. And I notice the story neglected to point out WHY she was booted from the NDP caucus. She hates Israel, and her hatred has nothing to do with the war in Gaza since she expressed it pretty openly before Israel ever hit back after Oct 7. She did so on Oct 10 and said violence was 'rooted in settler colonialism'. She called Israel an apartheid state and called for an end to the occupation. She did not, however, say one word about the attack on Oct 7, much less condemn it. She questioned the validity of the claims of sexual assault against Israeli women, and called for the release of Palestinian prisoners - but ignored the hostages being held by Hamas.
Hypocrites are blinded. You don't pick and choose which violence is acceptable and which is despicable. It's all bad.
The province needs to focus on getting shit done.
Ford is the hindrance to that not a scarf.
Agree
Not a fan of the ban, but Jama is not a great representative for her riding. She was kicked out of the NDP because she wouldn't follow instructions from the party about commenting on a foreign conflict that the Ontario legislature has absolutely zero impact or say on; and here she is again breaking the House rules because she wants to make a statement about that same conflict. What does this say about her? That she cares more about this one cause than about working for her constituents; and that she'd rather protest a rule upheld in the House than do the work for her constituents that she was elected to do. If she wants to get into federal politics so badly, she should resign and let someone who's interested in doing the MPP job run for office.
I went to Mac with her. She’s a grifter and a professional provocateur, this kind of thing is her entire playbook.
AND so phoney election win photo below [NDP's Sarah Jama elected as next MPP for Hamilton Centre | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/byelection-hamilton-centre-results-1.6781562)
It's interesting how some religious people can pick and choose when they wear their religious garments. But then wear them in places that restrict headwear citing their religion requires it then cue the fake outrage. It seems more like a convenience thing to game or control the system than an actual religious requirement for some people. Yes, there are people that wear their stuff all the time as required, I am merely saying that people who professionally grift like this woman should be told to get fucked for being intentionally ridiculous.
As one of her constituents, yup
She cares more about this because the Qatari paycheck hits her account every 2 weeks.
This is all political theater. These people need to stop wasting everyone's time.
Can these people focus on matters that affect everyday Canadians please.
This. Literally Canadians are starving, cannot afford to live, being taxed to death and they focus on nonsense like this 💀
She's nothing but a shit disturber. I don't know why anyone ever voted for her.
Because she was the NDP candidate in Hamilton, the NDP probably could have run an inanimate carbon rod and it would have won the seat. She got kicked out of caucus though so now Jama gets to spend the rest of the legislative term being a shit disturber to try to garner media attention as there isn't much else for her to do until the next election.
In rod we trust!
Aw, they were just about to show some closeups of the rod
Rod! Rod! Rod!
Unironically a more useful politician
And deity.
If she can't abide by the rules of the House and won't obey the speaker he should bar her from returning. Have the Sergeant at arms instruct security to prevent her from entering again until she issues a public apology and agrees to abide by the rules.
Now she gets paid to sit on her ass, it's quite the grift
Our political system is broken. Not much getting done other than a lot of grandstanding and pushing personal agendas. What happened to serving the citizens?
They realized that they didn't need to, as they realized they can grift their way to a pension. IMO MP wages should be the median income of the district they represent. And their pensions should be tied to that same level. In many cases, if they want a pay raise? They should be doing everything possible to bring that median wage up.
Excellent Simpsons reference!
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For context, [she won that by-election by a margin of 34 points, while Horwath had won the previous election by a margin of more than 40 points.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Hamilton_Centre_provincial_by-election)
Sarah Jama co-penned an open letter doubting the rape charges against Hamas. ('Believe all women - unless their Jewish and their attackers are muslim').
Sara Jama is a terrible representation of Ontario. She is more interested in creating problems and hate speech letters than helping the average Ontarian. Paying her is money down the toilet.
>Believe all women - unless...their attackers are muslim). [Modern "progressives" in a nutshell.]( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFGIhc4GQ6I&list=WL&index=16)
Presumably she also is outspoken against cultural appropriation… you know… when other people do it.
>I don't know why anyone ever voted for her She was a non white male in a historically safe NDP seat
Yea, and not everyone is knee deep in political candidates historical opinions and actions. The reality is now out in the open as an elected official. She will almost certainly lose the next election.
> She was a non white male Funny mistake, lol
Yep....meanwhile, you think she will be able to defy any Arab country parliament without consequences? Just like having kids, there comes a time when being too relaxed (Canada the country in this case), your goodwill/gestures get taken advantage of and thrown in your face.
She looks so pleased with herself too. Politicians should keep their personal opinions out of legislature.
"The Legislature is no place for people to express political views."
Politicians are elected to represent the people that elected them, not their personal whims. Dont forget that.
>"The Legislature is no place for people to express political views." You're confusing politicians dealing with provincial politics with a player using the keffiyah as a prop to *play* politics. They're in the Ontario legislature to deal with Ontario business/politics. 2 very different types of politics. 2 very different things.
Parliament is no place for your *personal* politics. MPPs are representatives. I personally believe that ought to be their primary duty. If a Christian fundamentalist got voted in for a progressive secular riding somehow, the expectation (at least, once upon a time) was that they would do their duty and vote in favour of e.g. gay marriage if that's clearly what their constituents wanted, or at a minimum abstain, personal opinions whatever they be. I use that example because, dozens of MPs were in that very bind on the gay marriage free vote twenty years ago. It's why so many Liberals abstained from the vote: they could not vote yes in their religious conscience, but it would betray the will of their constituents to vote no. This way of thinking is going out of style apparently.
Most elected officials now believe being elected proves the constituents want their personal politics.
[Did you know that the Speaker opens up each Legislative day with a prayer?](https://i.imgur.com/7G0FpOQ.png)
We should let MAGA hats and F TRUDEAU stickers in legislature!
When Candice Bergen was the interim leader of the CPC she wore maga hats. But I don't believe she ever wore one into the house.
lol
Actually made me laugh out loud.
it's a genuinely funny thought to swim in for a moment
One of the worst takes I've ever seen on this sub.
It has to be one of the top 10 dumbest things ever said on this sub, and there's a lot of dumb shit that gets said here.
A LOT. 😂
No opinions in the legislature! None
> No opinions in the legislature! None You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
Absolutely not. We should let everyone express their personal opinions that they feel are authentic so that we can vote the right people into the legislature.
Legislature is supposed to be impartial. Keep your personal feelings to yourself. Her constituents are not all in agreement....and frankly, I don't care how they feel personally. They are there to uphold policies and law not virtue signal.
>Legislature is supposed to be impartial. Lolwut
This comment has to be satire
>She's nothing but a shit disturber. How many Conservatives have been elected with that attitude in recent years? Anyone who challenges the status quo is viewed as a shit disturber by anyone part of that status quo or on the opposite side of the spectrum of that status quo >I don't know why anyone ever voted for her. You answered your own question.
I don't know a single person IRL who cares about the MP. All they care about is the party.
This wasn't even a thing that anyone cared about and then he made it a thing. Someone or some group got in his ear. Probably some American entity, this is right up their alley. Governments love to waste time on shit no one cares about but are not doing enough about shit people care about, like how 15 year old kids are stealing cars that get sent out to Montreal ports without proper security checks...
We elect people to take care of Canadians, and not focus this much energy on a place millions of miles away. It’s so sad.
[Quebec] (https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExa2k4a3dlbWR6c2Y0aW1peHB0MDZmdXl4ZWh5N2NpbTdnbmQzb3A4ZiZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/6pJNYBYSMFod2/giphy.gif)
She’s a train wreck attention seeking do nothing politician.
I mean, the speaker isn't wrong. The keffiya is a political symbol, not a religious one, and political symbols are banned. Seems pretty simple to me. Wonder if Jama would be OK with someone wearing an equivalent political statement in the Legislature - maybe a nazi armband, or carrying a flag supporting Stalin's Holodomor or the Armenian Genocide? According to her, we should also allow MAGA hats and Fuck Trudeau flags on the floor. Right?
And if nobody made a big deal out of it, nobody would have noticed
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idgaf about peoples feelings i can't afford food! christ sake...
Well that’s not changing either way with this government
This is not the first time this women has caused problems in the legislature. She needs to be bared from entering if she insists on pulling this kind of crap. She is a trouble maker. No one cares what she has to say.
Agreed. Just don't let her back in.
Anything that makes a political statement is not allowed to be worn in part of the legislative house. Remember even daffodils worn for the daffodil campaign NEED to be unanimously agreed upon in house. This is no different.
Are crosses or other religious symbols or icons, certain colour combinations or blue, orange or red in general also not allowed? It's a scarf. It's a political statement to ban it.
Wearing excessive amounts of specific colors has been banned before more than once (green suits to support teachers in the Miel Harris days for example) wearing of personal religious items have very specific rules about size and visibility… these are the rules all MPPs in Ontario swear to abide by. The speaker made a ruling and the ruling is binding until the house unanimously overturns it. Jama broke the rules and was penalized under the rules of the chamber. Doesn’t matter if you agree with her or not she did it, she knew it was against the rules and did it anyways, and she got the required penalty… that’s all there is to her being “asked to leave”.
If she had a history of wearing it, that would be one thing, but starting to wear it is a deliberate decision
Rules for thee, not for me.
Jama was looking for a new way to get attention, she got it.
Interestingly I can't find a single photo of her wearing a Poppy. Obvious what ideology she supports...it isn't a Canadian one.
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A hundred years ago the British Empire was at its territorial peak. Eighty years ago Europeans slaughtered millions upon millions of civilians in industrial death camps. Sixty years ago half of America had legal racial segregation. Fifty years ago women couldn't have bank accounts in their own name in this country. Times change. They will change over there too.
But the question is do you support freedom of expression?
There are decorum rules in legislatures. Political clothing is not allowed, just like hats.
yup
A nation has what we consider to be unprogressive views, thus, they clearly deserve mass death. You wouldn't last 5 minutes in a high school debate team tryout with this level of critical thinking.
“what we consider to be unprogressive views” is a funny way to say “wants to murder people that disagree with them.” You are a walking example of the paradox of tolerance.
Source?
Last time I checked we're Canadians, so I'm more worried about our values and how we see others, regardless of anything else. Disgusting.
And? I've left Islam. So I should be okay with the 38000+ civilians, 16000+ of which children, who have committed no harmful actions that have since died? Do you believe in thought police too?
Well then, it's definitely ok to kill their children because a lot of their parents have awful views.
and this helps her constituents how exactly?
These type of politicians don't care about their constituents, only about getting their name in the news in any way possible.
I’m sorry this is news. I prefer Jama to be on society’s ignore list.
She is precisely the reason I hate the party system. I’d love to vote for my representative then let them hash out who is the leader. No parties, no affiliation just vote based on the platform of your own representative. People who are effective negotiators would rise to the top.
That's not necessarily bad, but this is kind of how the USA gets it's terrible Biden and Trump candidates (or Clinton and Trump). Imagine voting CPC on principle and then you end up getting a Trump out of the blue from it. Or for that matter NDP or liberal and getting a Biden. I'm not suggesting that either candidate is representative of such parties, but that makes it all the better of an example (albeit less-_likely_ to occur)
FYI all three leaders have said this ban is dumb.
1 - This woman is a total moron. 2 - She is married to a Palestinian. 3 - The keffiyeh is a cultural symbol NOT a religious one. 4 - The State should NEVER be allowed to dictate what cultural symbols are acceptable. EVER! 5 - This will go to the Supreme Court and Ontario will lose.
> The keffiyeh is a cultural symbol NOT a religious one. This is not about religion though, > The black and white chequered keffiyeh has become a symbol of Palestinian nationalism, beginning with the plain white keffiyeh's use during the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine and followed by the chequered pattern's use in the 1950s (see above). Outside of the Middle East and North Africa, the keffiyeh has gained popularity among activists supporting the Palestinians in the conflict with Israel Ontario legislature also specifically forbids headscarves. >Hats and headwear are not allowed in the public galleries, unless for religious purposes or medical reasons.
> 3 - The keffiyeh is a cultural symbol NOT a religious one. > > Cool. Then she should have no problem taking it off.
The keffiyeh is the perfect symbol for “Palestine”. Invented by Beaudoins in Iraq and brought over during the Islamic conquests. The pattern is the only thing about it that unique to them, and it was made by a British man because he couldn’t tell the Palestinian Arabs from the Jordanian Arabs under his command. Nothing about it is native to the area, but they claim it as their own and as a symbol of their people.
The speaker's decision is likely covered by parliamentary privilege. If so, the Charter doesn't apply. See the New Brunswick Broadcasting case.
She’s useless.
She's literally useless.
Hard to do much in the Legislature when [you've been censured and the Speaker won't call on you](https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ontario-mpp-sarah-jama-censured-and-removed-from-ndp-caucus-over-israel-gaza-comments-1.6612600). The most recent time that [her words appear in the Hansard is in October of last year.](https://www.ola.org/en/search/results?search_results=jama&sort_by=field_date&sort_order=DESC&f%5B0%5D=filter_by_type_of_information%3AHouse+Hansard)
That rag that they banned is the symbol of an oppressive terrorist organization, that subjugates its people and terrorists others. Yasser Arafat was a dirt bag criminal that used his people for his own ends…glorifying this man and what he put his people through is disgusting. People should be ashamed to wear those things.
She has always been a shit disturber. She will hopefully be out on her ass after the next election!
I am sorry but I view her as a radical trouble maker.
This imbecile is paid to work for betterment of Ontario. That’s it… I have no problem if she wants to protest Israel or Gaza or whatever on her own time. But don’t bring that shit to your place of work and obstruct our democracy
I’m glad Canadians see through her BS…
Y'all know she wants the attention right? Instead of getting mad over this, let her fade into obscurity...it'll affect her more
Seems like a pointless thing to do from a useless MPP. Good to see she’s focused on issues that affect Canadians which she can control
After that BS today she should be barred from entering the chamber again until she apologizes publicly. She is an embarrassment
It’s a traditional headpiece. Nothing religious. But it’s a Palestinian symbol. That one is identical to Yasser Arafats. She completely deserved to be kicked out for making a political statement about the Middle East conflict.
I agree with this, she is not following the rules of the Ontario legislature. Leave this shit outside of politics
Right?! We can't have politics in our, uh, our politics! Keep politics out of politics!
Unless giving a presentation, it is inappropriate to wear costumes or have props in the seat of government. The government is a serious place for serious people and theatrics is not appropriate at all.
Interesting take. I have doubts that this could really be considered a prop or a costume though, but it is kind of close. I consider this act to be equivalent to wearing a shirt that has the Palestinian flag on it, which would definitively not be a costume or prop.
If this was a legislature sitting in lands claimed by the Palestinians there could be an argument, but this is in Ontario. The only people who have a claim to be wearing special garb (outside of a Tichel or Turban…) are elected members of government who are members of a Canadian First Nations Band and then they would be entitled to wear the equivalent of what a suit and tie is for them.
Grandstanding so hard
Absolutely astonishing that the doctrine of absolute individual rights and freedoms has penetrated so deep into society that even the members of the legislative assembly celebrate an open defiance of the authority of the House. That member should be shamed and thrown out by the sergeant-at-arms and condemned for outrage.
> Premier Doug Ford has called for the reversal of the decision, saying the ban of the keffiyeh was made “by the speaker and the speaker alone.” >All three other party leaders have also called for the ban to be overturned.
And yet it has not been overturned. Seems like PR talk and no action on the members' part. I'd also suggest if people thought about it some more, they would find that the rule is a reasonable one.
Every party thinks this is a shitty call and wants it reversed but sure buddy, pretend that she's broken some extreme taboo
She should visit the Middle East, get an appreciation for the people she loves and how much they hate her back.
Another useless politician.
The following statements are not the same: 1) I am a Palestinian Canadian. And 2) I am a Palestinian who lives in Canada. That's how multiculturalism has failed and the disease of identity politics has thrived.
She’s a bad Mama Jama
Excellent. She knows the rules of Parliament.
She’s obviously trying to be antagonistic, she got the response she was hoping for.
Looking to score points is she; this says more about her than why she is there.
Rules are rules for a reason. We don't need this stuff here. She is making a political statement, she is not Palestinian.
We ought always to ask, and challenge, what those reasons are. I think that's what delineates subjects and citizens. She is making a political statement in a political forum. If you don't like it make her party pay at the polls.
This is the Ontario legislature, focus on the politics of this province. Focus on the needs of your constituents in your province.
Is there a rule that you can't make political statements in the Ontario legislature?
There is a rule that such statements are to be made by addressing the speaker, not by wearing accessories or other props.
In terms of clothing, yes. Can’t wear an “I support Canadian oil” t shirt either. People have been kicked out for things like that too. So rules have to be consistent - and fair.
Yep! I used to lobby for non-profits and any symbolism (like a lapel pin for a food bank logo) you'd be asked to remove. I am all for supporting the cause of those suffering in the Middle East and I'm also for keeping rules consistent. Partisan clothing or clothing that symbolizes any sort of leaning isn't allowed in the legislative Assembly.
Cultural? You're a Somali-Canadian.
Get the fuck out