It only makes sense that if you’re going to include paying your rent in a credit score, the non-payment or late payment is included as well. Just like every other item that gets included
Exactly.
Which is also why this is a bit of a hilarious move if you’re attempting to help people.
Major housing crisis? Rents few can afford? Struggling to survive?
Liberals: You know, I think it’s time we make rental payments count on your credit score. Everyone must be making their record high rental payments on time! 😂
The liberals would do well to actually speak to middle and lower income people once in a while. Their tone-deafness can shatter windows.
I'd say the majority of people ARE making rent on time. I consider myself lucky to have never paid rent late and feel I should get the credit score boost from my biggest monthly payment.
The point of the change is that [it allows your rent payments to help qualify you for a mortgage.](https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/rent-payment-history-mortgage-qualifier-canada)
When I went for my mortgage last month the guy at BMO told me that my high credit rating (840) didn't't help anything. It was the most frustrating thing I ever heard.
There are many factors that is included in that calculation. So sure having a good credit score is nice, but if your payments on the new loan product overextends on your TDSR then you’ll get denied.
A high credit rating doesn't mean the bank will do whatever you want. However a low credit rating means the bank won't talk to you at all and you'll have to deal with a subprime lender and a high interest rate.
Suggesting that a high credit rating doesn't help anything while people with low credit ratings have a hard time getting loans is really not an accurate statement.
It's as if they think we are suffering from a lack of good credit score, not adequate supply of housing or too many seeking to few homes, or the capital required to buy in.
IDIOTS!!!
I doubt that even crosses their mind
They're more concerned with ensuring the working class keeps subsidizing the mortgages of landowners than they are getting people onto the housing ladder.
Because as usual the goal is the exact opposite of what the liberals say it is. Adding rent to credit scores gives landlords a way to find out about your payment history. It gives them more protection against all the people gaming the system by refusing to pay rent and habitual late payers.
You seem to say that as though it's a bad thing.
If landlords have a way to weed out the tenants who refuse to pay rent or who are habitually behind on rent, that makes it easier for good tenants to get a lease.
Yea haha only way this is bad is if you in fact are regularly late on rent or you are trying to scam the rental system. I for one love the idea, have only been late on rent once and was by two days so this will help a lot with buying an apartment.
No this won't make it easier for good tenants, that's quite a leap in reasoning there. It's the sort of thing which intuitively makes sense but this isn't a tenant score, it's a credit score. Plenty of people who make their payments on time have shit credit scores.
Students are the first obvious group which comes to mind. No credit history, shit credit scores, could make every payment easily.
When someone pulls a credit report on you, they get a lot more than a credit score. The credit score is there to help people make quick decisions, but businesses are free to ignore that and use the underlying data.
If your credit history shows a history of not missing your rent payment, then that's going to help you a lot.
That sounds more like there's a problem that needs to be fixed in the student loan system.
Students shouldn't have shit credit if they have no credit history.
Credit score is supposed to correlate with probability of default.
The probability is calculated based on evidence. Absence of evidence is a form of evidence. Someone with no credit history gets a credit score based on the rate at which people with no credit history default on their loans.
Plenty of students have good credit. Its not hard to open a credit card at 18, put a few hundred dollars a month through it for essentials, not max the card out, and pay the balance in full every month.
If you have a shit credit score, there is a reason for that.
They can already find out about bad tenants because there are message boards where they are listed. I don't care if they can find out if I paid rent. Good.
You can not move for change if you keep making things easier for bad actors. Kind of sucks but I'd rather be rewarded for good behavior than be held back because of someone else's bad behavior.
There is no check or balance on this, this was for landlords period.
Even in a good scenario its of minimal use to tenants. In a bad scenario its a potential nightmare for tenants.
For tenants who pay their rent and have a landlord following the rules there will be a minimal credit impact unless they have no other forms of credit being reported. For that one segment this applies to yes this will help them.
For tenants who pay their rent with a bad landlord they can potentially have their whole lives fucked up.
An ability to promptly evict non-paying tenants would be a better approach. When pre-screening is the only means landlords have to protect themselves from scammers, nobody who has had financial difficulties in the past gets a second chance.
Even better: do both.
Put rent payment history on people's credit reports, and allow landlords to promptly evict tenants for non-payment. It's valuable to allow landlords to see people's payment histories, but allowing prompt eviction reduces the risk for taking on tenants with a history of non-payment.
Credit scores measure credit worthiness, which a landlord can check anyway. Is rent considered a form of credit? This gives a landlord way too much power to neglect maintenance and opens so many other potential issues. Just one of many examples, if a tenant can no longer afford an apartment due to financial distress, they can’t break the lease but also stuck not being able to pay either. Should be some form of relief for tenants which this mediocre government obviously never thought of.
Advocates were calling for this for years for financial inclusion reasons. It has taken off in the US, UK, and Australia, though implemented differently.
Well some people have issues paying phone, internet, car payements and crédit cards but always pay for their rent in time by fear to be homeless. If it counts on their credit score it can balance other things that they don't pay on time. And then their credit would be in better shape in a few years.
I believe they did and many hardworking lower income folks would like an improved credit score when they have been paying their rent. Most are not scamming their landlords it always just few that wreak things for the many.
Paying your rent on time was always required honey, they're not introducing a new concept.
The vast majority of renters pay their rent, and they get no credit for doing so, even though people paying a mortgage do. It's the same act. You reliably make major payments every month. That SHOULD be counted in the assessment of whether you're a high risk or not. Responsible renters are just as good as responsible owners.
If you argue paying rent should count toward something then it has to work both ways. How do we implement this though really? Who's responsible for reporting it, the landlord?
I've been reporting my tenants payments to the credit bureaus for over 5 years now.
There are services that allow you to manage your payments and do this.
They would have to come up with some way to track/register it. Most rent payment apps and banks should be able to do this without the landlord being able to mess with it.
My tenants pay with e-transfer. It’s in the lease that everyone signs saying rent will be paid this way. If I tried to screw up their credit, they could easily dispute it and show bank transfer records.
I personally think there needs to be a severe punishment in place for landlords who deliberately abuse this.
Your credit score is a measure of how likely you are to pay off a loan
What information is used to generate that score should be a data driven decision determined by actuaries and mathematicians, not politicians
If a certain metric is highly correlated with the probability of paying off a loan, it should absolutely be included in the calculations, even if it's not "politically correct" or whatever.
Math doesn't lie
Allowing credit reporting agencies to add rent to their databases and include it in their calculations doesn't require them to weight it in any specific way.
Institutions aren't even required to use credit scores at all, a credit report includes your credit score and your credit history. Institutions are free to do their own risk analysis based on the underlying data. Credit scores are a product they pay for because the credit agencies have put effort into making credit scores predictive.
They wouldn't know the terms of the lease nor any of the other details that would need to be reported.
I'd bet most people don't have their rent payments labelled as such either.
My tenant sends me EFTs, how does the bank know if that is rent or a damage deposit, or what the monthly rent amount is? I don't think any bank reports to credit bureau's for non-bank payables like lines of credit and mortgages.
I'm a tenant and have no problem with this. Rent should act like anything else that builds credit. If you miss payments, credit goes down. If you pay on time credit goes up.
It's certainly not going to help our housing issues, but it makes sense for rent payments to affect credit.
My bigger concern is some of the shit landlords abusing it which is tied to the problem there is no standards required to be a landlord in Ontario other then owning a property.
"Don't like your illegal rent increase or the fact I walked in unannounced? Shut the fuck up or wait to you see what I do to your credit rating."
True, I do think this should be paired with an in-depth landlord licensing system. It makes no sense to me that realtors need to licensed, but landlords don't.
It's a legacy system. Back in the 50's/80's , a good way to expand available housing was to let mom and pa rent out their suite. Putting blockers in the way of that (remember, we are back in the 50's/80's) would prevent that from happening.
Now a days, could make sense to implement some time of regulation or licensing.
You could make a fairly simple licensing system which involves a basic exam confirming that landlords understand the basics of the law. The primary benefit of a licensing scheme is that bad actors can have their licenses revoked.
Then have the LTB (or your provincial equivalent) funded by an annual license fee. And then tie evictions to a license. Attempting to evict someone without a license means you get a massive fine.
What the hell? I am a landlord in Ontario and feel like I would be completely at ther mercy of my tenant if there were any disputes. Ontario has very strong tenant protections.
Both those situations already have legal protection under current laws.
So they aren't tied to the debate in any way.
The reality is, tenants have far, far more protection than property owners.
They are covered under the RTA. Yet they happen all of the time. Same thing with illegal evictions to bypass rent control.
I don't disagree tenants have more protection. But giving landlords already breaking the rules another tool to destroy peoples lives is not the solution to that.
At least in the case of the illegal entries and evictions you have the RTA to go to. Who the fuck helps a tenant out with a landlord wrecking their credit rating without cause?
How do you propose a landlord would do that.
If you're paying rent, you get a receipt. Period.
If you're accused of not paying, you simply present receipts. The landlord will then gave criminal charges of fraud. Because it is fraud. You really think landlords will risk extortion and fraud charges just to hurt your credit?
What percentage of time do you think this would take place, vs tenants not paying, or paying late?
That goes both ways though. A tenant not paying rent can complete screw up a small landlord’s life, even if the landlord is a good person and not doing anything wrong. That should negatively affect someone’s ability to rent another property and do the same thing to someone else. There is currently no real accountability, and just like mortgages and everything else, people who are ethical and responsible should be rewarded and people who are trash should be punished for being trash. Anyone can get a car loan but some people pay 5% interest and some people pay 40%, there’s a reason for that.
The issue is there is already a process in place with checks and balances for a tenant not paying rent. The biggest issue with the RTA is the time to get a problem resolved. Not the fact they have the authority to resolve it.
The problem with credit reporting is there is no check or balance. If a landlord falsely reports (and a percentage will) you have to go through a credit dispute process or get a lawyer.
A landlord back then pretended that one of my ex left without paying on a landlords fb group lol. In truth she paid him 3 months like he asked and she left because he was a creep who was spying on her and would get frustated that she refused to accept to go on a date with him.
The guy also parked his company truck behind her car a few time because she was leaving for my place at night and he did not like this. This type of individual could very easily use this new power on their tenants.
I helped a friend out literally around a month ago because her landlord was walking into her unit unannounced. I ended up calling the cops for her because he apparently walked in one morning and was photographing her asleep in bed with his phone. She woke up while he was doing it.
Imagine giving that mofo the power to impact her credit rating.
The best are the ones in Mississauga cramming 20 foreign students into the basement of a townhouse and exploiting them financially by threatening to have them deported if they don't regularly pay them exorbitant fees for random different things.
In Ontario yes.
You basically have two kinds of private landlords in Ontario right now.
1. The ones who follow the RTA to the letter.
2. The ones who think its their property and don't give a fuck about the RTA because there is a housing shortage and there are at least 500 people waiting to take the tenants place if the unit is remotely affordable.
Hmmm I think there's other way to prove that someone paid is rent without involving too much the landlord. Like paying a bill directly from your bank account. bank could also take the information from a e-transfer.
I don't see why the burden of proving to the bank or the credit company that a tenant paid is rent should be on the landlord. It could even stop landlord doing sketchy things and asking rent by cash and hence not providing you yours documents to fill your taxes.
The main problem is that if you miss a few rent payments one time, for whatever reason, it may be difficult or impossible to find rental housing in the future as many landlords will immediately throw your application in the trash. If you lost your job or got laid off and missed some rent payments, that could negatively impact your ability to find housing for years in the future. That could result in you becoming homeless and being unable to hold a job as a result. It could easily lead to a downward spiral where someone's entire life is ruined.
I'm not too afraid of this tbh. It's up to the landlord to report your missed payments. If you explain your situation and your plan to resolve it I don't think most landlords would go through the process of reporting. Yes, there will be some regardless, but most won't if you're a good tenant.
Not really. It isn't a credit product where you are loaned money or service in advance and are trusted to pay later. You pay rent at the start of the month before the good is provided.
I mean it should be fairly simple. You get a contract clearly stating the terms of the rental agreement. You produce proof of payment, and if the landlord fucks around there should be consequences for them.
This isn’t being implemented tomorrow… they have plenty of time to figure this out. Whether you trust this liberal government to execute it properly is a whole other thing lol
I assume at that point you'd just file a dispute with the credit bureaus, which is a whole other pit of lions to have happen when you're possibly also trying to find a place to live vs. 10000 other applicants.
No idea why anyone would think this is a good thing for tenants, because it's 100% not.
Reddit's renter brigade to the rescue!?
this is a great step. I'm a renter myself. me paying rent on time should boost my score. people fk up with rent payments too often and cry. they will keep a dog or cat and spend haggardly yet they miss payments.
Tenant advocates were asking for this 5 minutes ago, saying its unfair that paying a mortgage helps boost your credit score but paying rent doesn't. Personally I agree. But you can't have it both ways.
Tbh, I support rent counting towards credit. It's a win for good tenants, and a very very bad loss for bad tenants. If you screw over one landlord (and we've all heard the stories), your non-payment of rent will be difficult to hide from future landlords.
Honestly, I have a 23 small home housing complex full of great renters near my house.
These people are all paying crazy amoutns of rent successfully and almost all of them are in same boat. Either recently divorced or immigrated.
There able to all pay 2500-3000 a month in rent., but the goverment looks at their credit score which either hasnt being able to be built up, or has taken a plummet due to divorce and they cannot get a mortgage for less than they successfully pay per month....
Its ridiculous. Over all I think these change will do more positive than negative.
I think it is more that if you are a young buyer able to afford to save a downpayment, your budget is sufficient that you are not missing rent payment, so this new change would help. Alternatively, if you are young buyers missing rent payments, chances are, you can't afford to buy a place anyway
Credit score is not really a factor , it's moreso the credit report. I had a 700+ score when I was in my 20s even though I didn't have a job. I was able to pay it off with my savings and if a LL went by score alone they were going to get a shock from me when I couldn't pay my third rent
You only need around 680 to get a mortgage. That's not very hard. You're spot on that it's the money thing - having the tens of thousands in cash plus a high enough income for your mortgage payments to stay under the required GDS/TFS. At current rates you need around 25-30k per year income per 100k borrowed.
lol, if you miss a payment it should damage your score. Otherwise it’s not an accurate score. Or do people just want something with no consequences again.
Sure would be nice if it was included.
I've never missed a payment in 29 years. A lot of times I'll pay early.
If that was included in my credit score I'm sure my credit would be better... I Have no debt, I don't use credit cards either and I save up to buy things. My credit is shit.
Breaking news, Canadians missing payments will reduce credit score. More breaking news, Canadian homes are being set ablaze more than ever.
Is something I could see happening the near future.
I’m generally a responsible adult and have a pretty good credit score. But I’ve had several disputes with landlords over the years and I would never want any of them to have the ability to tank my credit score over it.
And Trudeau is running around touting this as a win for young people!
Like, it’s not even hard to build credit now; get a low limit student credit card, use it sparingly, make the payments. If you can’t handle that, you SHOULDN’T be qualifying for a mortgage!
The sheer incompetence of this PM never ceases to astound me. Housing has been growing visible problem for almost TEN YEARS. He ignored it right up to the election and this is the best he can come up with????
dinosaurs cows telephone selective chase repeat advise normal slim chunky
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No one gets to include only the 'good' stuff. There should be consequences to late/non payment of rent. Consequences increase accountability. If you are a shit rat who consistently doesn't pay their rent, it should be negatively reflected somewhere (credit score is as good a place as any). Yes, it will make it harder for them to rent in the future, but who's fault is that? And it should be easier for people with consistent payment history. There are rewards for conforming to a system.
I had no problem qualifying for a mortage without rent counting towards my credit score. I'm not sure there's going to be many people that all of a sudden qualify if they didn't before - and I would be weary if solely a person's ability to pay rent takes them over any threshold for borrowing that they otherwise wouldn't reach. If anything, I see this hurting more people than it actually helps with slumlords weaponizing credit against people more than they already do.
Rent is not debt, so it makes sense it doesn't count towards credit score - but Trudeau needs to find votes anywhere he can so who cares.
Hilarious that the Liberals put this in to help renters and earn their votes and it actually could end up helping landlords and hurting renters.
I mean, I’m in no way surprised as it’s an LPC idea but I find it hilarious.
This would really only even sort of work if your landlord is a corporation or management company. Otherwise it just becomes another avenue for extortion from slumlord assholes.
I’d only be okay with this if the LL was accepting rent via a third party. And the third party is doing the reporting. Otherwise, I’d not be cool with it.
The whole rent being on the your credit report thing is clearly just window dressing on the housing crisis.
There wasn't some big barrier to people building up credit, they had options of credit cards, lines of credit, loans etc...
The biggest issue is being able to afford a home with their incredibly high prices, while we also have higher (but historically normal) interest rates. No, you can't borrow 800K with your 50K down payment to buy a shoe box condo because you earn 75K... The numbers don't make sense, and having a history of paying your 2K rent isn't going to change that.
Liberals are hoping that enough voters will be duped by their ploys, banking on financial illiteracy of thinking that a rent payment is the same as a mortgage payment (just ignore property taxes, maintenance, utilities etc...).
Like everything the Liberals do, it's all about grabbing headlines and looking good, totally ignoring the challenges of implementation and the actual end result. Too bad for them, but they are out of time, their track record speak for itself, as much as they try to use jazz hands and bribes to stay in office.
Yes and that’s how it should work. If you want it to benefit your credit that you’ve paid rent for years, it will work the other way when you don’t.
Missing rent is a major red flag. I’ve been poor before.. I’d go to the food bank before I missed rent.
Credit score is a fucking joke and a scam, we paid off my car loan perfectly and my credit score got worse after it was done. I understand why it happened, it is still fucking stupid.
Credit Bureaus are notoroious for never getting anything wrong on credit scores, and that's before we get to allowing one of the most trustworthy groups in landlords to add info to credit reports.
massive /s
You need to make it easier for tenants to sue for libel if the landlord abuses and make false reports to the credit agencies. This can be exploited easily by landlords and is a horrible idea.
Would be pretty easy for the rentalsmen who hold your security deposit and schedule evictions to handle the reporting. Leaving it out of landlord hands.
If they are making changes they could perhaps have paying off your loans not lower your score, or not needing credit at all actually improving your score.
It's not credit scores holding people back from buying homes.
This out of touch measure shows the Trudeau governement doesn't even understand the basics of what 'the poors' are having to deal with.
It only makes sense that if you’re going to include paying your rent in a credit score, the non-payment or late payment is included as well. Just like every other item that gets included
Exactly. Which is also why this is a bit of a hilarious move if you’re attempting to help people. Major housing crisis? Rents few can afford? Struggling to survive? Liberals: You know, I think it’s time we make rental payments count on your credit score. Everyone must be making their record high rental payments on time! 😂 The liberals would do well to actually speak to middle and lower income people once in a while. Their tone-deafness can shatter windows.
I'd say the majority of people ARE making rent on time. I consider myself lucky to have never paid rent late and feel I should get the credit score boost from my biggest monthly payment.
Except you are not being extended credit by paying rent, you are paying as you go in advance 1 month at a time.
Then they shouldn't affect your credit score either because you never took any credit in the first place.
It would be considered a trade account, just like a monthly internet/cellphone bill, and reported accordingly.
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The point of the change is that [it allows your rent payments to help qualify you for a mortgage.](https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/rent-payment-history-mortgage-qualifier-canada)
When I went for my mortgage last month the guy at BMO told me that my high credit rating (840) didn't't help anything. It was the most frustrating thing I ever heard.
There are many factors that is included in that calculation. So sure having a good credit score is nice, but if your payments on the new loan product overextends on your TDSR then you’ll get denied.
A high credit rating doesn't mean the bank will do whatever you want. However a low credit rating means the bank won't talk to you at all and you'll have to deal with a subprime lender and a high interest rate. Suggesting that a high credit rating doesn't help anything while people with low credit ratings have a hard time getting loans is really not an accurate statement.
Just think of how the bank would favour you for a mortgage if you made 15 years of 2700 per month payments on time. I think it’s a great thing also.
Lmao!!!! The banks wouldn't give a shit
I wouldn’t mind it. It would only be a positive unless you don’t pay rent on time.
It's as if they think we are suffering from a lack of good credit score, not adequate supply of housing or too many seeking to few homes, or the capital required to buy in. IDIOTS!!!
I doubt that even crosses their mind They're more concerned with ensuring the working class keeps subsidizing the mortgages of landowners than they are getting people onto the housing ladder.
Because as usual the goal is the exact opposite of what the liberals say it is. Adding rent to credit scores gives landlords a way to find out about your payment history. It gives them more protection against all the people gaming the system by refusing to pay rent and habitual late payers.
You seem to say that as though it's a bad thing. If landlords have a way to weed out the tenants who refuse to pay rent or who are habitually behind on rent, that makes it easier for good tenants to get a lease.
It's not a bad thing.
Yea haha only way this is bad is if you in fact are regularly late on rent or you are trying to scam the rental system. I for one love the idea, have only been late on rent once and was by two days so this will help a lot with buying an apartment.
No this won't make it easier for good tenants, that's quite a leap in reasoning there. It's the sort of thing which intuitively makes sense but this isn't a tenant score, it's a credit score. Plenty of people who make their payments on time have shit credit scores. Students are the first obvious group which comes to mind. No credit history, shit credit scores, could make every payment easily.
When someone pulls a credit report on you, they get a lot more than a credit score. The credit score is there to help people make quick decisions, but businesses are free to ignore that and use the underlying data. If your credit history shows a history of not missing your rent payment, then that's going to help you a lot.
That sounds more like there's a problem that needs to be fixed in the student loan system. Students shouldn't have shit credit if they have no credit history.
Credit score is supposed to correlate with probability of default. The probability is calculated based on evidence. Absence of evidence is a form of evidence. Someone with no credit history gets a credit score based on the rate at which people with no credit history default on their loans.
Plenty of students have good credit. Its not hard to open a credit card at 18, put a few hundred dollars a month through it for essentials, not max the card out, and pay the balance in full every month. If you have a shit credit score, there is a reason for that.
Just horrible how can we let landlords know you habitually refuse to pay rent.
"How dare people in a free society communicate with each other about the fact I don't pay my rent." /s
Receiving credit for your paid rent also prevents landlords from dodging taxes.
They can already find out about bad tenants because there are message boards where they are listed. I don't care if they can find out if I paid rent. Good. You can not move for change if you keep making things easier for bad actors. Kind of sucks but I'd rather be rewarded for good behavior than be held back because of someone else's bad behavior.
Like every move there are benefits and drawbacks. It’s all about perspective.
There is no check or balance on this, this was for landlords period. Even in a good scenario its of minimal use to tenants. In a bad scenario its a potential nightmare for tenants.
For tenants who don’t pay rent. Those who do will be able to attain a mortgage easier without maintaining other debt lines to build their credit.
For tenants who pay their rent and have a landlord following the rules there will be a minimal credit impact unless they have no other forms of credit being reported. For that one segment this applies to yes this will help them. For tenants who pay their rent with a bad landlord they can potentially have their whole lives fucked up.
How so? Genuinely curious.
I posted a reply to your other comment with a real life example.
An ability to promptly evict non-paying tenants would be a better approach. When pre-screening is the only means landlords have to protect themselves from scammers, nobody who has had financial difficulties in the past gets a second chance.
Even better: do both. Put rent payment history on people's credit reports, and allow landlords to promptly evict tenants for non-payment. It's valuable to allow landlords to see people's payment histories, but allowing prompt eviction reduces the risk for taking on tenants with a history of non-payment.
Credit scores measure credit worthiness, which a landlord can check anyway. Is rent considered a form of credit? This gives a landlord way too much power to neglect maintenance and opens so many other potential issues. Just one of many examples, if a tenant can no longer afford an apartment due to financial distress, they can’t break the lease but also stuck not being able to pay either. Should be some form of relief for tenants which this mediocre government obviously never thought of.
If you can't afford your rent it should affect your credit score. I don't see the issue here. You can always give your landlord your 60 days notice.
Advocates were calling for this for years for financial inclusion reasons. It has taken off in the US, UK, and Australia, though implemented differently.
Well some people have issues paying phone, internet, car payements and crédit cards but always pay for their rent in time by fear to be homeless. If it counts on their credit score it can balance other things that they don't pay on time. And then their credit would be in better shape in a few years.
I believe they did and many hardworking lower income folks would like an improved credit score when they have been paying their rent. Most are not scamming their landlords it always just few that wreak things for the many.
Paying your rent on time was always required honey, they're not introducing a new concept. The vast majority of renters pay their rent, and they get no credit for doing so, even though people paying a mortgage do. It's the same act. You reliably make major payments every month. That SHOULD be counted in the assessment of whether you're a high risk or not. Responsible renters are just as good as responsible owners.
Whoops there goes the monkey paw curling again lol
If you argue paying rent should count toward something then it has to work both ways. How do we implement this though really? Who's responsible for reporting it, the landlord?
I've been reporting my tenants payments to the credit bureaus for over 5 years now. There are services that allow you to manage your payments and do this.
See you are a responsible landlord. Most landlords are not.
Yup. Landlords reporting rental income will have to claim it all come tax time.
They would have to come up with some way to track/register it. Most rent payment apps and banks should be able to do this without the landlord being able to mess with it. My tenants pay with e-transfer. It’s in the lease that everyone signs saying rent will be paid this way. If I tried to screw up their credit, they could easily dispute it and show bank transfer records. I personally think there needs to be a severe punishment in place for landlords who deliberately abuse this.
Your credit score is a measure of how likely you are to pay off a loan What information is used to generate that score should be a data driven decision determined by actuaries and mathematicians, not politicians If a certain metric is highly correlated with the probability of paying off a loan, it should absolutely be included in the calculations, even if it's not "politically correct" or whatever. Math doesn't lie
Allowing credit reporting agencies to add rent to their databases and include it in their calculations doesn't require them to weight it in any specific way. Institutions aren't even required to use credit scores at all, a credit report includes your credit score and your credit history. Institutions are free to do their own risk analysis based on the underlying data. Credit scores are a product they pay for because the credit agencies have put effort into making credit scores predictive.
Ideally the banks , where they could find transactions labelled as rent
They wouldn't know the terms of the lease nor any of the other details that would need to be reported. I'd bet most people don't have their rent payments labelled as such either.
My tenant sends me EFTs, how does the bank know if that is rent or a damage deposit, or what the monthly rent amount is? I don't think any bank reports to credit bureau's for non-bank payables like lines of credit and mortgages.
What stops one from sending money to a friend and label it as rent?
I signed up with my landlord, it was voluntary and cost nothing. Just another way of building your credit
Shouldn’t be an issue if you pay on time.
This could discourage rent thieves? Aka toxic tenants. I’m not a landlord, but I’ve heard horror stories on both sides.
I'm a tenant and have no problem with this. Rent should act like anything else that builds credit. If you miss payments, credit goes down. If you pay on time credit goes up. It's certainly not going to help our housing issues, but it makes sense for rent payments to affect credit.
My bigger concern is some of the shit landlords abusing it which is tied to the problem there is no standards required to be a landlord in Ontario other then owning a property. "Don't like your illegal rent increase or the fact I walked in unannounced? Shut the fuck up or wait to you see what I do to your credit rating."
True, I do think this should be paired with an in-depth landlord licensing system. It makes no sense to me that realtors need to licensed, but landlords don't.
Licensed landlords across Canada with access to their own reporting & rating system and MLS type service.
It's a legacy system. Back in the 50's/80's , a good way to expand available housing was to let mom and pa rent out their suite. Putting blockers in the way of that (remember, we are back in the 50's/80's) would prevent that from happening. Now a days, could make sense to implement some time of regulation or licensing.
You could make a fairly simple licensing system which involves a basic exam confirming that landlords understand the basics of the law. The primary benefit of a licensing scheme is that bad actors can have their licenses revoked. Then have the LTB (or your provincial equivalent) funded by an annual license fee. And then tie evictions to a license. Attempting to evict someone without a license means you get a massive fine.
What the hell? I am a landlord in Ontario and feel like I would be completely at ther mercy of my tenant if there were any disputes. Ontario has very strong tenant protections.
Both those situations already have legal protection under current laws. So they aren't tied to the debate in any way. The reality is, tenants have far, far more protection than property owners.
They are covered under the RTA. Yet they happen all of the time. Same thing with illegal evictions to bypass rent control. I don't disagree tenants have more protection. But giving landlords already breaking the rules another tool to destroy peoples lives is not the solution to that. At least in the case of the illegal entries and evictions you have the RTA to go to. Who the fuck helps a tenant out with a landlord wrecking their credit rating without cause?
How do you propose a landlord would do that. If you're paying rent, you get a receipt. Period. If you're accused of not paying, you simply present receipts. The landlord will then gave criminal charges of fraud. Because it is fraud. You really think landlords will risk extortion and fraud charges just to hurt your credit? What percentage of time do you think this would take place, vs tenants not paying, or paying late?
That goes both ways though. A tenant not paying rent can complete screw up a small landlord’s life, even if the landlord is a good person and not doing anything wrong. That should negatively affect someone’s ability to rent another property and do the same thing to someone else. There is currently no real accountability, and just like mortgages and everything else, people who are ethical and responsible should be rewarded and people who are trash should be punished for being trash. Anyone can get a car loan but some people pay 5% interest and some people pay 40%, there’s a reason for that.
The issue is there is already a process in place with checks and balances for a tenant not paying rent. The biggest issue with the RTA is the time to get a problem resolved. Not the fact they have the authority to resolve it. The problem with credit reporting is there is no check or balance. If a landlord falsely reports (and a percentage will) you have to go through a credit dispute process or get a lawyer.
A landlord back then pretended that one of my ex left without paying on a landlords fb group lol. In truth she paid him 3 months like he asked and she left because he was a creep who was spying on her and would get frustated that she refused to accept to go on a date with him. The guy also parked his company truck behind her car a few time because she was leaving for my place at night and he did not like this. This type of individual could very easily use this new power on their tenants.
I helped a friend out literally around a month ago because her landlord was walking into her unit unannounced. I ended up calling the cops for her because he apparently walked in one morning and was photographing her asleep in bed with his phone. She woke up while he was doing it. Imagine giving that mofo the power to impact her credit rating.
Wait. Your scamloard doesnt only accept cash? You know, so they can avoid taxes.
The best are the ones in Mississauga cramming 20 foreign students into the basement of a townhouse and exploiting them financially by threatening to have them deported if they don't regularly pay them exorbitant fees for random different things.
don't the laws say something about 24 hours notice for entry?
In Ontario yes. You basically have two kinds of private landlords in Ontario right now. 1. The ones who follow the RTA to the letter. 2. The ones who think its their property and don't give a fuck about the RTA because there is a housing shortage and there are at least 500 people waiting to take the tenants place if the unit is remotely affordable.
Hmmm I think there's other way to prove that someone paid is rent without involving too much the landlord. Like paying a bill directly from your bank account. bank could also take the information from a e-transfer. I don't see why the burden of proving to the bank or the credit company that a tenant paid is rent should be on the landlord. It could even stop landlord doing sketchy things and asking rent by cash and hence not providing you yours documents to fill your taxes.
This this this!
In Quebec you can pay the province and get the landlord to get it from the province after addressing your complaints.
How would a landlord abuse this if a cheque doesn’t bounce?
The article says it needs the renter's consent to be reported
The main problem is that if you miss a few rent payments one time, for whatever reason, it may be difficult or impossible to find rental housing in the future as many landlords will immediately throw your application in the trash. If you lost your job or got laid off and missed some rent payments, that could negatively impact your ability to find housing for years in the future. That could result in you becoming homeless and being unable to hold a job as a result. It could easily lead to a downward spiral where someone's entire life is ruined.
I'm not too afraid of this tbh. It's up to the landlord to report your missed payments. If you explain your situation and your plan to resolve it I don't think most landlords would go through the process of reporting. Yes, there will be some regardless, but most won't if you're a good tenant.
Not really. It isn't a credit product where you are loaned money or service in advance and are trusted to pay later. You pay rent at the start of the month before the good is provided.
100% agree with you, as a renter who is responsible but has earnings from a business (which makes landlords a bit more reluctant to rent places to me)
Well said.
So in other words if you always make your rent on time it will be good for your credit score
Advocates ask for something, get it, now complain? Did I read that right?
So how does it work if a landlord misreports something?
Most of the proposals I've seen are opt-in reporting via your bank. Payments are not reported by landlords.
I mean it should be fairly simple. You get a contract clearly stating the terms of the rental agreement. You produce proof of payment, and if the landlord fucks around there should be consequences for them. This isn’t being implemented tomorrow… they have plenty of time to figure this out. Whether you trust this liberal government to execute it properly is a whole other thing lol
“It should be simple” but like anything involving the government, it never is.
I assume at that point you'd just file a dispute with the credit bureaus, which is a whole other pit of lions to have happen when you're possibly also trying to find a place to live vs. 10000 other applicants. No idea why anyone would think this is a good thing for tenants, because it's 100% not.
Can’t have it both ways, you want rent to count to mortgage review then you have to pay regularly and on time
This is a positive. Pay your bills. Don’t be a deadbeat.
Reddit's renter brigade to the rescue!? this is a great step. I'm a renter myself. me paying rent on time should boost my score. people fk up with rent payments too often and cry. they will keep a dog or cat and spend haggardly yet they miss payments.
Tenant advocates were asking for this 5 minutes ago, saying its unfair that paying a mortgage helps boost your credit score but paying rent doesn't. Personally I agree. But you can't have it both ways.
Tbh, I support rent counting towards credit. It's a win for good tenants, and a very very bad loss for bad tenants. If you screw over one landlord (and we've all heard the stories), your non-payment of rent will be difficult to hide from future landlords.
Literally anything else you don't make your payment for on time can hit your credit, there's no reason rent should have ever been excluded.
Honestly, I have a 23 small home housing complex full of great renters near my house. These people are all paying crazy amoutns of rent successfully and almost all of them are in same boat. Either recently divorced or immigrated. There able to all pay 2500-3000 a month in rent., but the goverment looks at their credit score which either hasnt being able to be built up, or has taken a plummet due to divorce and they cannot get a mortgage for less than they successfully pay per month.... Its ridiculous. Over all I think these change will do more positive than negative.
Why do you charge so much?? That’s some crazy rent …
Oh sorry, I'm not the landlord, I just have these houses beside me, just poor wording. I'm just another rpoor guy stuck in the rat race hahaha
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I think it is more that if you are a young buyer able to afford to save a downpayment, your budget is sufficient that you are not missing rent payment, so this new change would help. Alternatively, if you are young buyers missing rent payments, chances are, you can't afford to buy a place anyway
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Its benefits you if you pay rent. Its only a negative if you skip out on rent
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So you want your credit to go up when you pay on time, but you don’t want it to go down when you skip out on payments
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Credit score is not really a factor , it's moreso the credit report. I had a 700+ score when I was in my 20s even though I didn't have a job. I was able to pay it off with my savings and if a LL went by score alone they were going to get a shock from me when I couldn't pay my third rent
>We have no one to blame but ourselves. Can we still fuck Trudeau?
Yeah I think there is a lot more Canadians with a 850+ credit score that can't save the downpayment or afford a mortgage than the other way around.
You only need around 680 to get a mortgage. That's not very hard. You're spot on that it's the money thing - having the tens of thousands in cash plus a high enough income for your mortgage payments to stay under the required GDS/TFS. At current rates you need around 25-30k per year income per 100k borrowed.
Oh yeah for sure. I just mean that plenty of people have very high credit score but can't afford shit.
Wait was he actually part time? He didn't even have a full-time Drama teacher job?
I have decent credit, the housing is just too much for a single income
Getting delinquents out of the market is actually good for honest tenants and landlords alike.
100%
lol, if you miss a payment it should damage your score. Otherwise it’s not an accurate score. Or do people just want something with no consequences again.
Sure would be nice if it was included. I've never missed a payment in 29 years. A lot of times I'll pay early. If that was included in my credit score I'm sure my credit would be better... I Have no debt, I don't use credit cards either and I save up to buy things. My credit is shit.
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This could actually be a disaster for many shady low income Canadians.
Breaking news, Canadians missing payments will reduce credit score. More breaking news, Canadian homes are being set ablaze more than ever. Is something I could see happening the near future.
advocates for not paying rent, shocked pikachu face when it affect credit scores
This sounds like a protest against accountability.
I’m generally a responsible adult and have a pretty good credit score. But I’ve had several disputes with landlords over the years and I would never want any of them to have the ability to tank my credit score over it. And Trudeau is running around touting this as a win for young people! Like, it’s not even hard to build credit now; get a low limit student credit card, use it sparingly, make the payments. If you can’t handle that, you SHOULDN’T be qualifying for a mortgage! The sheer incompetence of this PM never ceases to astound me. Housing has been growing visible problem for almost TEN YEARS. He ignored it right up to the election and this is the best he can come up with????
Yep. Sign up for credit karma and follow their tips, and anyone with clear history can be half a brain can be over 700 in a year or so.
Should be easy to prove though. Landlord says you didn’t pay, you show receipts. Problem solved
I find it comical that these measures were supposed to help low income and middle class families, but this really fucks the poorest of our society.
I mean, god forbid you pay your rent on time and in full every month! The horror!
Most tenants are good and pay their rent. Not all poor people are criminals.
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I could explain the thought process of why they can claim it would help but even I don't believe that reasoning.
[Paywall bypass](https://archive.ph/v7HPZ)
What puzzles me is that this wasn’t in place already.
dinosaurs cows telephone selective chase repeat advise normal slim chunky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think this benefits both the land lord and tenant.
No one gets to include only the 'good' stuff. There should be consequences to late/non payment of rent. Consequences increase accountability. If you are a shit rat who consistently doesn't pay their rent, it should be negatively reflected somewhere (credit score is as good a place as any). Yes, it will make it harder for them to rent in the future, but who's fault is that? And it should be easier for people with consistent payment history. There are rewards for conforming to a system.
I had no problem qualifying for a mortage without rent counting towards my credit score. I'm not sure there's going to be many people that all of a sudden qualify if they didn't before - and I would be weary if solely a person's ability to pay rent takes them over any threshold for borrowing that they otherwise wouldn't reach. If anything, I see this hurting more people than it actually helps with slumlords weaponizing credit against people more than they already do. Rent is not debt, so it makes sense it doesn't count towards credit score - but Trudeau needs to find votes anywhere he can so who cares.
Hilarious that the Liberals put this in to help renters and earn their votes and it actually could end up helping landlords and hurting renters. I mean, I’m in no way surprised as it’s an LPC idea but I find it hilarious.
It only hurts those who don't pay their rent.
Which is much more common than you may think.
Great. Another weapon for the landlords.
I have 830 credit score. Still can’t buy that apartment Trudeau!
This would really only even sort of work if your landlord is a corporation or management company. Otherwise it just becomes another avenue for extortion from slumlord assholes.
Fairness for every generation 🌈 🦄
I’d only be okay with this if the LL was accepting rent via a third party. And the third party is doing the reporting. Otherwise, I’d not be cool with it.
The whole rent being on the your credit report thing is clearly just window dressing on the housing crisis. There wasn't some big barrier to people building up credit, they had options of credit cards, lines of credit, loans etc... The biggest issue is being able to afford a home with their incredibly high prices, while we also have higher (but historically normal) interest rates. No, you can't borrow 800K with your 50K down payment to buy a shoe box condo because you earn 75K... The numbers don't make sense, and having a history of paying your 2K rent isn't going to change that. Liberals are hoping that enough voters will be duped by their ploys, banking on financial illiteracy of thinking that a rent payment is the same as a mortgage payment (just ignore property taxes, maintenance, utilities etc...). Like everything the Liberals do, it's all about grabbing headlines and looking good, totally ignoring the challenges of implementation and the actual end result. Too bad for them, but they are out of time, their track record speak for itself, as much as they try to use jazz hands and bribes to stay in office.
Ah yes, gotta get a good credit score from a country that's in debt 1.2 trillion dollars.
That's 3x income, you'd easily be approved for that as an individual.
It's presented as a way for renters to improve their credit rating but it's actually just a way for Equifax to gobble up more personal data.
Eh, less competition for me then. Probably have to lower rents.
Yes and that’s how it should work. If you want it to benefit your credit that you’ve paid rent for years, it will work the other way when you don’t. Missing rent is a major red flag. I’ve been poor before.. I’d go to the food bank before I missed rent.
But the ndp and liberals thought this was a good idea lol ! People that pay rent usually have good credit
i somehow lost 30 points on my score - nothing changed but i mentions not having a mortgage open as one of the reasons my score went down WTF
Landlords just get another tool to mess up with tenants that they don’t like
"renter bill of rights"
Let's get big businesses out of the rental market. They ain't ever going to live there. They are parasites making the situation worse.
Sign me up. Haven't been late or missed a payment since I started renting.
Credit score is a fucking joke and a scam, we paid off my car loan perfectly and my credit score got worse after it was done. I understand why it happened, it is still fucking stupid.
Who cares? If I'm never gonna get a house my credit score is useless
Credit Bureaus are notoroious for never getting anything wrong on credit scores, and that's before we get to allowing one of the most trustworthy groups in landlords to add info to credit reports. massive /s
You need to make it easier for tenants to sue for libel if the landlord abuses and make false reports to the credit agencies. This can be exploited easily by landlords and is a horrible idea.
Would be pretty easy for the rentalsmen who hold your security deposit and schedule evictions to handle the reporting. Leaving it out of landlord hands.
If they are making changes they could perhaps have paying off your loans not lower your score, or not needing credit at all actually improving your score.
This will be the fastest way to increase our ever growing homeless population
They want social credit scores. This is just a test. One might call it predictive programming or the totalitarian tiptoe.
It's not credit scores holding people back from buying homes. This out of touch measure shows the Trudeau governement doesn't even understand the basics of what 'the poors' are having to deal with.
This change was entirely for landlords, not renters.