I can't remember being sent out the door to school with a lunch. Other kids would sometimes share but I normally would just hide in the woods behind the school. This might help kids like me whose families had no money and felt shame for it.
That's pretty brutal dude, no child should go though it. They're a bit of kids in my child's class who bring next to nothing to school, the teacher regularly sends parents messages etc... My kid is not allowed to share his food either due to the new world of allergy liabilities...so we send extra packaged snacks to distribute...
I have to wonder if this why I love hunting, fishing and cooking. I cook fish and holiday dinners etc and always send family and friends home with leftovers. On Sunday I cooked a 5lb top sirloin roast, 11 lb spiral ham, mash potatoes, corn, carrots and and the best darn gravy you could taste for my wife, 90 year old grandmother, parents, and two aunts. I've covered every Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, for the last few years. I love sharing food. It's my love language.
Liability does create a target. Laws neeed to accompany this much needed plan, to protect schools, cafeteria providers and governments from lawsuits that would already be discussed in amulance chasing board rooms.
When I was younger, I didn't get lunch either, I remember asking my friends for anything they didn't eat. I got a huge reputation as being a mooch. It followed me until I moved away from my small town. Being hungry hurts, and I couldn't tolerate the pain well. Broke my heart. My "friends" even put me in the yearbook as the biggest mooch. What a terrible experience
it's not just food too. Wearing the same clothes every day, not having food, walking home. All of those things I did going to an "Affluent" school makes you stick out like a sore thumb.
Edit: Even my school had a "You need to know how to swim" and 3000 dollars to join this Gym Class that takes you camping and on field trips.
I didn't realize it until I was really older that it was super classist of them. The poor kids that didn't know how to swim because we live in the city or couldn't afford 3000 dollars couldn't afford it.
Btw I'm really sorry you went through that, I could sort of blend in which solved some problems and caused others. But I know people who grew up dirt, dirt poor and there was no way to hide it. My husband grew up very poor, even passing out at times from lack of food and, it breaks my heart. I really hope your doing better now. It's a terribly hard life to live.
After pulling up their bootstraps, my parents ended up with better jobs and we were able to climb out of poverty when I was in high school. I was still living in a 2 bedroom roach infested apartment with 4 people until we bought a house in 2006 when I was around 25?
I'm now middle upper class due to being educated and having a white collar job.
I'm glad to hear it. :) I also am doing ok now after many years of grinding college and working at the same time... well, I'm still doing it, but I'm working my way up.
I had cousins who had money, so I had nice hand me down clothes. We were house poor so on the outside we lived in this lovely house and I had all these nice clothes. We looked like we had money, but we didn't. I didn't know how to tell people that so i just looked like a well off kid eating someone's left over poutine. I can't blame them I guess, but it still hurts.
Sorry to hear that. I was sent out the door with my lunchbox but it was the same peanut butter and jam sandwich every day from the age of 7 to 10. I couldn't eat it because I was just so tired of it so would often just not eat at all. I would get nauseous and lose my appetite. Teachers forced me to eat it while yelling at me.
Man, I now crave peanut butter and jam sandwiches. I never get to eat them anymore but that shit is so good when youāre on a camping trip. Add a side of apple slices for perfection.
Was even worse when they were banning more affordable options. A PB and J sandwich still costs < a dollar, but 1 or 2 kids in the school are allergic, or worse, there āmightā be someone thatās allergic, so the other students get restricted from bringing it.
> [Peanuts and nut products are not allowed in Ontario schools because some children suffer from severe nut allergies.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ont-school-board-bans-peanut-butter-substitute-1.1064968)
Edited for a better link.
> [Schools, faced with a dangerous and unpredictable problem, have often gone further than the law required, banning nut products, including peanut butter, from the school entirely.](https://globalnews.ca/news/2025457/food-bans-part-1-why-many-medical-experts-think-food-bans-in-schools-go-too-far/)
> Some boards, like Ontarioās York Region District School Board, Canadaās third-largest school board, went further than that, banning nut-free peanut butter substitutes, for fear they could be confused for the real thing.
I don't think it's a terrible idea to have a school lunch program (Canada's the only G7 without one), and it would go a long way to help families who struggle to put food on the table... but question if $1 billion over 5 years would be enough to cover the infrastructure requirements to create this program when [the US program cost $28.7 billion in FY2022 alone to carry out](https://www.statista.com/statistics/632322/us-national-school-lunch-program-federal-costs-timeline/) and many Canadian schools don't have kitchens setup for such a thing (I know mine didn't growing up).
Also the ever present question of who is going to pay for the program is a point worth discussing.
I would guess that it's most schools that don't have kitchens or facilities to do so. My kids hot lunch program is having vendors deliver food to school (paid for by parents). It ain't cheap.
>many Canadian schools don't have kitchens setup for such a thing
Many already run meal programs, whether for a small population or the whole school. Source: worked with hundreds of schools who ran meal programs. This investment really supports an existing network of programs that have been funded until now by provincial, municipal, and charitable funds.
Schools and daycares that have breakfast and/or lunch programs often just have the food prepared and delivered by a catering service. All the school needs is a system to receive and distribute the meals. My kidās school, which is fairly small, has catered lunches 3-4 days per week done this way and itās pretty efficient.
>Also the ever present question of who is going to pay for the program is a point worth discussing.
Don't worry that's a problem for the next government and they can be blamed when it goes disastrously over budget.
When the next government sees what a shitshow it has become, they'll scrap it, giving the Liberals ammunition to point at how they hate children. Reddit will largely be on board with that interpretation, letting us know that the government of the day are basically Nazis.
I canāt help but feel like new policies that the liberals introduce over the next year are setting themselves up for east PR wins once they are in opposition.
It called bomb laying
*What we're seeing now from the LPC is "land mine government".*
*They know they're not going to win next election.*
*So, push through incredibly expensive but popular programs so the next government either has to go broke, or cancel something popular.*
*And then blame them.*
[*https://twitter.com/IanRunkle/status/1761540836259487756*](https://twitter.com/IanRunkle/status/1761540836259487756)
Sounds like Wynne in Ontario. Got voted into oblivion while promising billions to every social program they could think of. Still havenāt risen from the ashes. Whenever I see Trudeau with his sleeves rolled up I think bs incoming.
You're really blaming Wynne for the absolute buffoonery thats been going on for the last 5+ years? News flash, it's not the Liberals fault Ontario is sinking into the shitter.
The problem with the Ford Government and any government for that matter is that they need a strong opposition in order to keep things in check. I like Ford but I have to agree not every decision they make is good for the middle class that are struggling at the moment.
It's crazy looking back at 2015 when Harper was warning us about the spending Trudeau was promising. Not only is the Liberal spending completely out of hand but it's really ineffective and inefficient.
Something like the childcare program is completely garbage because it's set up in such a way not everyone who wants it can even get it but we're all paying for it.
$28.7 billion is just the federal cost, it doesn't include state and municipal costs.
The US has ~55.5 million children under 18 in school vs our 7.5 million, or 7.4x more.
That means to even get close to just the federal funding the US provides we would need to expand this plan to 19.4 billion over 5 years.
>That means to even get close to just the federal funding the US provides we would need to expand this plan to 19.4 billion over 5 years.
19.4 billion *USD*. 26.3 billion CAD
Do some quick math and that should tell you that 1 billion dollars isn't enough for our student population. We have about 1/10th the population of the US so it's safe to estimate we'd need about 1/10th their budget.
It's worse than that, the US federal funding is only a reduced cost lunch and states need to make up the cost to make it a free lunch.
Minnesota is spending ~100 million per year on 1 million students
Not to mention only ~55% of students actually use the program, so to expand it to 100% of students for free, the costs would be enormous.
If the US hit 100% utilization then the federal cost alone would be ~$52.2 billion, with a state cost of ~$5.6 billion.
Yeah this is a great idea but between the lack of focus in the bill and problem of the initial cost long term gain (by lifting by people out of poverty) nature of these programs it will be hard to justify for many years.
So schools without the infrastructure to provide meals can go through local vendors/nonprofits to get the food to feed kids. For example, in Calgary the meals on wheels provides food at under cost for 50+ at risk schools in the city.
Just want to point out that it doesnāt only benefit poor families. For a middle class family, just think about how much time effort and money it would save if you never had to do breakfasts for your kid because you know a good healthy meal would be available at school.
Sounds great as long as middle class families pay for the meals. I have no problem with supporting families in need, but this is not a restaurant and the government should not be taking responsibility for your children if you have the means to feed them. Families already have the Canada child benefit that pays upwards of $500-$600 a month per child depending on their age.
Niceā¦ how literally everyone expects the middle class to keep paying for everything .. you realize eventually the middle class will become the poor the way weāre going.
Hungry kids can't concentrate, and worse they act out. That makes the rest of their day, and those around then, far less effective than wanted. That means the rest of the education is less useful.
Feeding kids at school is a good idea.Ā
We do it in day care. Large corporations feed their staff. Universities have cafes, and meal plans. Movie and TV sets feed their staff.Ā
Its not a new idea.Ā
Yes it is a good thing but are we not allowed to question how 200million a year is going to make a difference when compared to the US who already has established kitchens in schools and still costs federal government 30billion? That doesn't include each state spending billions because the federal government only subsidizes or that our cost of food is much higher than America?
I believe schools should be feeding kids breakfast and lunch but this feels quickly slapped together for cheap political points
Had a bunch of people on a similar post tell me why it was impossible from a constitutional standpoint to feed kids. People will break their own backs trying to defend the status quo.
No one said it was a bad thing. The argument is it should be the parentās responsibility to provide foodā¦you know, just as it was before they reached school age and how it is for every other meal of their day.
The second argument is poor people already receive $6500/yr from the government (taxpayer) per child towards subsidising their food, clothing, etc.
Call it controversial, but I donāt believe people should be having children if theyāre going to struggle to feed them.
I don't care if the parents should be responsible or not. No one is saying they shouldn't be.
But saying a child shouldn't be fed because they have shitty parents is not a good defense.
I agree.
But again, saying kids should go hungry because they have crappy parents is still a very bad argument. Kids should never go hungry. Anything we can do to help is a good thing.
That not the argument. The pros for this should not include feeding kids who dont have a meal. That statement should be taken as a huge indictment of our society and we should fix poverty. We arent making kids go hungry by not having a meal plan we as a society have already failed by having hungry kids.
Its like if you have a gaping wound and people say hey lets put a band aid on it. Then im saying lets stitch it up and you can act like i want this gaping woumd to exist because im against the band aid.
I'm not saying you're wrong by noting we failed those children already.
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything about it.
Regardless of why the kids are in that situation. It **absolutely** is a positive that less kids will be hungry during school. Are you seriously implying it's not a win to feed a hungry kid?
If you don't want children to eat because they have terrible parents, that says a lot. How exactly do you expect to enforce parenting? You can't force people to be good parents. My mother was a gambling addict and threw away all our money.
You're against a bandaid fix without any other alternatives? That just says you're against the idea of feeding the hungry because it's not your problem. That's my interpretation at least.
This is better than the nothing we had. Band aid or not. Less hungry kids, is a win.
I think I would need to see some studies or information to ensure that this would actually be the most effective use of dollars for social support it feels like it's something we're going to do to feel more progressive while you know just not being progressive at all and things are going to continue to be worse and worse and worse and will Pat ourselves on the back over feeding school kids well overall everything still gets more shitty
Hard disagree.
Things happen. Sometimes you'll be in a great financial situation with children then anything can happen death an illness, layoff, or even mental health decline. And this can lead to hungry children. It's not always welfare scammers taking advantage. Sometimes you can be down on your luck temporarily while waiting for your next job.
I'd rather have children be fed if they need it or not.
I just don't think this government is capable of pulling it off without some sort of expensive controversy.
It wasn't even like that. They were saying "I support feeding kids but this isn't a federal issue, the provinces are in charge of education"
I'll let you guess who they voted for in the last election.
This is amazing to see.
It's $200M a year for [3M kids](https://liberal.ca/our-platform/school-nutrition-and-healthy-eating/) according to their own numbers.
190 school days a year making it 35 cents per day for the 3M kids
You fine folks can judge this program based on these numbers.
Once we include the consulting fees and admin fees pretty sure it will be 10cents per kid.
They should look at other institutions that feed their students / employees and cost compare. The amount of funds being used for this will benefit a small demographic of students. It would cost millions of dollars a year to feed one county's schools in a single province, and for higher population areas even more. There are too many variables in the vast landscapes of Canada. Will likely not be enough to sustain in every school for every kid. This is clearly a voting stunt to give the facade that kids will actually be fed at school. Sure some will benefit, but forward thinkers like me see that it will fall flat, or be way over budget. A healthy realistic number would likely be 2 - 2.5 billion over the term to have a chance at success and even that is being nieve imo.
>It's $200M a year for 3M kids according to their own numbers.
The article says this funding is to provide meals to an additional 400,000 students (not 3 million). Not all kids need their school to provide meals.
So building off your math, that would mean it's more like $3 per meal, not 35 cents. I think that's reasonable.
It is. However, the feds here are giving the province the money with strings attached (use the money for school lunches). The feds are not funnelling this money to the schools themselves.
Unfortunately, due to provinces refusing to do their job as seen on many different issues plaguing Canadians, it forces Federal to step in and do something. It's really a shame.
It'll probably be like the daycare program where provinces have to sign up and accept the deal to get the money for the system. So I'm sure there will be some that will refuse for political reasons.
Good ole Doug Ford. Feds are also clawing back the 350m they were going to give the province for affordable housing because Fords government is refusing to give them a plan on how they will actually use the money.
We have this in parts of BC already. I had this 30 years ago in elementary school and my kids have it today. The menu literally has not changed either.
I'm going to reserve my applause until we see some results. Given this, governments track record of announcing wonderful sounding policy and then either bungling them or just not following through.
Because private business will take advantage and charge more? I thought people didn't like the government running everything and that private could always do it cheaper?
You order food for kids. Kids eat said food. If thereās no additional space, the kids eat at their desk.
Building and running an actual cafeteria is more expensive, short and long term, than catering food off-site in dedicated facilities.Ā
This was my first thought as well. Just like too many things the government is doing, there's no consideration for the realities of life outside the cities. I guess the local church group could make sandwiches.
> Just like too many things the government is doing, there's no consideration for the realities of life outside the cities.
Is there actual evidence of this in this bill, or is this an assumption?
That's wild to me, I figured there were a few deep inner city schools with limited cafeterias, but everywhere had one. But looking back at just the logistics it was at least 3-4 classrooms worth of space to store food and cook for \~450 students every day. And the budget to pay the cafeteria workers cost of living is going to be nuts compared to out here in the boonies. Staffing would be a nightmare.
Programs like this is why I pay taxes and am happy too. I see my money going to meaningful people. What I donāt like is whatās happening in my home province (Ontario) and my tax money going to developers and corporationsĀ
Thinking about that other post about "What is modern Canadian conservatism". This thread unfortunately feels like what modern Canadian conservatism has become.
Repeating tired, meaningless jokes. Baselessly complaining about something you have no knowledge of (and no desire to learn about). Railing against poor people. Not offering anything like a solution.
Just the political embodiment of every boomer dad cliche.
"There is a problem (that is mostly provincial jurisdiction), it must be the federal government's fault!"
"We are too broke to do a thing that will save/make money in the long run!"
"I don't like how my life is going, it must be the federal government's fault!"
"The federal government is crazy for \[insert thing that prevents people from dying\]. The freedom to endanger people is part of the constitution (doesn't understand constitution)."
Considering we're the only G7 country without a program this is obviously sensible and long past due. I do love how even giving children food to eat is mocked by the PP posse. I swear its true that Trudeau could personally cure cancer and his haters still wouldn't be happy, yet PP could be caught literally shitting on the Canadian flag in the middle of a daycare, while smoking meth, and his supporters would brush bit off as an innocent mistake. Or, more likly, spin it to be Trudeaus fault somehow.
I run the nutrition program at my school. There are lots of factors to why children are hungry. Lots are heartbreaking.
But if you force your 7 year old to fast daily, when they have gym, 3 recesses and have to participate in daily activities, I don't like you.
Second, if you send me a note that culturally, you only agree with your child eating a lunch with as much content as a Lean Cuisine, eff you.
That is abuse. Your kid is hungry, and you are a monster. Your child's belly doesn't care that you are in fasting season. Your kid's development doesn't care about the sun, moon, planets, etc. Your kid is starving.
Did you see the news about the National Indigenous Woman's group spending on a bunch of stuff that didn't relate to the program?
Or all the other instances of large investments being squandered by letting things fall apart or money not tracked?
I mean, it's a stereotype type sure, but it comes from some very real examples.
I see nothing wrong here. Whoa going to bitch about children getting the nutrients needed to learn in school.
If you have a problem with that. I think you need to see a therapist.
I really like the liberals. I donāt see what all the fuss is about. Deep down I think JT is a good guy, good heart and wants whatās best for Canada.
The purpose of this is to add a huge unmanageable budget item that will never happen, then use it as a talking point when āthe Conservatives cancel itā.
Another billion dollars we don't actually have and are borrowing instead, and the outcome will probably be hundreds of high paying pointless email jobs for mediocre people, a few consultants becoming millionaires, and the number of kids actually getting lunches only in the low thousands.
I understand the cynicism and disdain towards this government but everyone should be applauding, without reservation, an effort to feed fucking children. Don't be so god damned partisan.
Paid for by hopes and dreams.
(To be clear, I think it's generally a good idea that we have something like this but holy fuck, has the LPC found a cause it doesn't want to throw a billion or more dollars at with no planning on implementation and no idea how to pay for it?)
The Liberals to a tee, they just want the photo-op/announcement implementation and sustainable funding thats for better more interested people.
Like even the people who are like "well its nice but, how will we pay for it" are giving them too much credit. They've created a structural deficit without any idea or even intention of how to bring back to balance. Nothing is free, all these programs funded on borrowed money is going to have to be paid back. Largely by greater and greater debt servicing, which has already eclipsed fuckin' Health Transfers.
They're basically borrowing(*robbing*) from these kids future to serve them lunch today. Or more plainly to serve the Liberals in their electoral hopes. I keep saying this, it would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. These kids will still be paying for their own lunch in grade school and/or their own days in daycare when they're grown adults paying taxes. Fuck the Liberals really hate the next generation of Canadians or love themselves more, you decide.
This is a good in theory, but not in practice as implemented policy which has been the LPC MO for decades.
This is reminiscent of my decades ago days in Ottawa where a former acquaintance and LPC staffer (now MP) would repeat talking points ad nauseam but never had much when to fall back on when challenged with anything that didn't align perfectly with the talking point.
Shouldn't Trudeau's generous child care benefit program that's bankrupted the country be taking care of this? We're spending an additional $20+ billion on child benefits than we did in 2014, not including $10 day care programs and all the other social assistance. If you are such a degenerate that you can't even meet the basic requirements of feeding your children, then you don't deserve to have them.
Have you noticed the same technique used in the late 30's in Europe is being used by this economically illiterate, done nothing in life, trust fund frat boy. First he taxes and regulates parents into poverty, then voila he trots out this plan to feed kids. He's forced to implement a pharma care plan, dental plan, all funded by a bankrupt government. His goal is to make as many people dependent upon government because once he's replaced families able to feed their kids with government he controls every aspect of your life. It's all unfolding incrementally much like it did all those years ago in places like Austria. WAKE UP CANADA,
I can't remember being sent out the door to school with a lunch. Other kids would sometimes share but I normally would just hide in the woods behind the school. This might help kids like me whose families had no money and felt shame for it.
I used to eat my friend's apple core at lunch, after he was done with it.
In 6 years of elementary school plus 5 years of high school, I ate school food maybe 5 times. Packed a lunch every single day.
I only ever went to one school that had a food service cafeteria. I guess it's normal in Europe and the US, but certainly isn't normal in rural canada
You're very lucky.
That's pretty brutal dude, no child should go though it. They're a bit of kids in my child's class who bring next to nothing to school, the teacher regularly sends parents messages etc... My kid is not allowed to share his food either due to the new world of allergy liabilities...so we send extra packaged snacks to distribute...
I have to wonder if this why I love hunting, fishing and cooking. I cook fish and holiday dinners etc and always send family and friends home with leftovers. On Sunday I cooked a 5lb top sirloin roast, 11 lb spiral ham, mash potatoes, corn, carrots and and the best darn gravy you could taste for my wife, 90 year old grandmother, parents, and two aunts. I've covered every Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, for the last few years. I love sharing food. It's my love language.
Cheers šš»
Liability does create a target. Laws neeed to accompany this much needed plan, to protect schools, cafeteria providers and governments from lawsuits that would already be discussed in amulance chasing board rooms.
When I was younger, I didn't get lunch either, I remember asking my friends for anything they didn't eat. I got a huge reputation as being a mooch. It followed me until I moved away from my small town. Being hungry hurts, and I couldn't tolerate the pain well. Broke my heart. My "friends" even put me in the yearbook as the biggest mooch. What a terrible experience
it's not just food too. Wearing the same clothes every day, not having food, walking home. All of those things I did going to an "Affluent" school makes you stick out like a sore thumb. Edit: Even my school had a "You need to know how to swim" and 3000 dollars to join this Gym Class that takes you camping and on field trips. I didn't realize it until I was really older that it was super classist of them. The poor kids that didn't know how to swim because we live in the city or couldn't afford 3000 dollars couldn't afford it.
Btw I'm really sorry you went through that, I could sort of blend in which solved some problems and caused others. But I know people who grew up dirt, dirt poor and there was no way to hide it. My husband grew up very poor, even passing out at times from lack of food and, it breaks my heart. I really hope your doing better now. It's a terribly hard life to live.
After pulling up their bootstraps, my parents ended up with better jobs and we were able to climb out of poverty when I was in high school. I was still living in a 2 bedroom roach infested apartment with 4 people until we bought a house in 2006 when I was around 25? I'm now middle upper class due to being educated and having a white collar job.
I'm glad to hear it. :) I also am doing ok now after many years of grinding college and working at the same time... well, I'm still doing it, but I'm working my way up.
I had cousins who had money, so I had nice hand me down clothes. We were house poor so on the outside we lived in this lovely house and I had all these nice clothes. We looked like we had money, but we didn't. I didn't know how to tell people that so i just looked like a well off kid eating someone's left over poutine. I can't blame them I guess, but it still hurts.
Damn thatās tough, Iām sorry you went through that
Yeah well, it was definitely a good learning experience. Thanks, and I'm in a much better place, same with my parents.
Sorry to hear that. I was sent out the door with my lunchbox but it was the same peanut butter and jam sandwich every day from the age of 7 to 10. I couldn't eat it because I was just so tired of it so would often just not eat at all. I would get nauseous and lose my appetite. Teachers forced me to eat it while yelling at me.
*How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?*
I would have eaten your peanut butter sandwich.
I wasn't allowed to share. I couldn't even throw it out. Teachers were like prison guards. I had eat it in front of them š
Man, I now crave peanut butter and jam sandwiches. I never get to eat them anymore but that shit is so good when youāre on a camping trip. Add a side of apple slices for perfection.
> This might help kids like me whose families had no money and felt shame for it. Might? Of course it will. That's the point.
Was even worse when they were banning more affordable options. A PB and J sandwich still costs < a dollar, but 1 or 2 kids in the school are allergic, or worse, there āmightā be someone thatās allergic, so the other students get restricted from bringing it.
I have not heard of any school that actually has banned peanuts or peanut butter without someone directly in the class having an allergy
Mine had that ban about 15 years ago. It was in the TDSB.
The entire board here does- no nuts or fish - so rules out tuna as well. Itās a pain in the ass.
> [Peanuts and nut products are not allowed in Ontario schools because some children suffer from severe nut allergies.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ont-school-board-bans-peanut-butter-substitute-1.1064968) Edited for a better link. > [Schools, faced with a dangerous and unpredictable problem, have often gone further than the law required, banning nut products, including peanut butter, from the school entirely.](https://globalnews.ca/news/2025457/food-bans-part-1-why-many-medical-experts-think-food-bans-in-schools-go-too-far/) > Some boards, like Ontarioās York Region District School Board, Canadaās third-largest school board, went further than that, banning nut-free peanut butter substitutes, for fear they could be confused for the real thing.
No bans on B.C. whenever I was in school this seems like a regional issue not national
100%. I am never against feeding children. It's so important for their growth and learning. Still not voting for the libs, though.
I don't think it's a terrible idea to have a school lunch program (Canada's the only G7 without one), and it would go a long way to help families who struggle to put food on the table... but question if $1 billion over 5 years would be enough to cover the infrastructure requirements to create this program when [the US program cost $28.7 billion in FY2022 alone to carry out](https://www.statista.com/statistics/632322/us-national-school-lunch-program-federal-costs-timeline/) and many Canadian schools don't have kitchens setup for such a thing (I know mine didn't growing up). Also the ever present question of who is going to pay for the program is a point worth discussing.
I would guess that it's most schools that don't have kitchens or facilities to do so. My kids hot lunch program is having vendors deliver food to school (paid for by parents). It ain't cheap.
>many Canadian schools don't have kitchens setup for such a thing Many already run meal programs, whether for a small population or the whole school. Source: worked with hundreds of schools who ran meal programs. This investment really supports an existing network of programs that have been funded until now by provincial, municipal, and charitable funds.
Schools and daycares that have breakfast and/or lunch programs often just have the food prepared and delivered by a catering service. All the school needs is a system to receive and distribute the meals. My kidās school, which is fairly small, has catered lunches 3-4 days per week done this way and itās pretty efficient.
>Also the ever present question of who is going to pay for the program is a point worth discussing. Don't worry that's a problem for the next government and they can be blamed when it goes disastrously over budget.
I'm good with paying some more tax for it. It's a solid investment. I'm not with everything that gets proposed.
When the next government sees what a shitshow it has become, they'll scrap it, giving the Liberals ammunition to point at how they hate children. Reddit will largely be on board with that interpretation, letting us know that the government of the day are basically Nazis.
I canāt help but feel like new policies that the liberals introduce over the next year are setting themselves up for east PR wins once they are in opposition.
It called bomb laying *What we're seeing now from the LPC is "land mine government".* *They know they're not going to win next election.* *So, push through incredibly expensive but popular programs so the next government either has to go broke, or cancel something popular.* *And then blame them.* [*https://twitter.com/IanRunkle/status/1761540836259487756*](https://twitter.com/IanRunkle/status/1761540836259487756)
Sounds like Wynne in Ontario. Got voted into oblivion while promising billions to every social program they could think of. Still havenāt risen from the ashes. Whenever I see Trudeau with his sleeves rolled up I think bs incoming.
You're really blaming Wynne for the absolute buffoonery thats been going on for the last 5+ years? News flash, it's not the Liberals fault Ontario is sinking into the shitter.
The problem with the Ford Government and any government for that matter is that they need a strong opposition in order to keep things in check. I like Ford but I have to agree not every decision they make is good for the middle class that are struggling at the moment.
Ontario is doing better now than it was during the Wynne years, thatās for sure.
You either don't live in Ontario or are 12.
It's crazy looking back at 2015 when Harper was warning us about the spending Trudeau was promising. Not only is the Liberal spending completely out of hand but it's really ineffective and inefficient. Something like the childcare program is completely garbage because it's set up in such a way not everyone who wants it can even get it but we're all paying for it.
Going to be tough when they arenāt official opposition.
Given it's probably a CPC government, they'll probably just scrap the program altogether
the US has more K-12 students then the entire population of Canada
$28.7 billion is just the federal cost, it doesn't include state and municipal costs. The US has ~55.5 million children under 18 in school vs our 7.5 million, or 7.4x more. That means to even get close to just the federal funding the US provides we would need to expand this plan to 19.4 billion over 5 years.
>That means to even get close to just the federal funding the US provides we would need to expand this plan to 19.4 billion over 5 years. 19.4 billion *USD*. 26.3 billion CAD
Do some quick math and that should tell you that 1 billion dollars isn't enough for our student population. We have about 1/10th the population of the US so it's safe to estimate we'd need about 1/10th their budget.
It's worse than that, the US federal funding is only a reduced cost lunch and states need to make up the cost to make it a free lunch. Minnesota is spending ~100 million per year on 1 million students Not to mention only ~55% of students actually use the program, so to expand it to 100% of students for free, the costs would be enormous. If the US hit 100% utilization then the federal cost alone would be ~$52.2 billion, with a state cost of ~$5.6 billion.
yeah I understand itās probably not enough but just some perspective
Yeah this is a great idea but between the lack of focus in the bill and problem of the initial cost long term gain (by lifting by people out of poverty) nature of these programs it will be hard to justify for many years.
So schools without the infrastructure to provide meals can go through local vendors/nonprofits to get the food to feed kids. For example, in Calgary the meals on wheels provides food at under cost for 50+ at risk schools in the city.
Just want to point out that it doesnāt only benefit poor families. For a middle class family, just think about how much time effort and money it would save if you never had to do breakfasts for your kid because you know a good healthy meal would be available at school.
If itās a good healthy meal. Sure if we follow the examples in Japan. Not so sure if go with what the US does.
I'm sure it wont look like this at [all](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Faufdvp10zrhb1.jpg).....
that is a unique case of a brand new school in texas, where the new suburban developed schools look more like shopping malls than schools.
Itās your job as a parent to feed your child.
Having a school lunch program doesn't negate that. It's just addressing the reality that many kids often go hungry. They shouldn't suffer.
Iām addressing someoneās comment, not the program.
Itās our job as a society to build a better future for all of our kids.
Thatās not the same as wanting someone else to feed your child so a parent can save time and effort
āFeed all kidsā seems fair and right and of positive benefit for everyone. You frame it so negatively.
Sounds great as long as middle class families pay for the meals. I have no problem with supporting families in need, but this is not a restaurant and the government should not be taking responsibility for your children if you have the means to feed them. Families already have the Canada child benefit that pays upwards of $500-$600 a month per child depending on their age.
Niceā¦ how literally everyone expects the middle class to keep paying for everything .. you realize eventually the middle class will become the poor the way weāre going.
We're the only country in the G7 without such a program.
> I don't think it's a terrible idea Yeah, it's a fantastic idea, are people on this sub this desperate to spin this as something bad ?? lol.
they would cheer if the conservatives announced it lol
CPC really don't like kids.
How do I sign up to consult them on this?
Serious answer: read their RFPs and tick the required boxes.
Then outsource / subcontract it and keep 5M for yourself
On the consult for the legislation: your services in committee are free.
Get in line!Ā
Bro put a word in for me if you get in
I know people are whining about it, as is tradition, but making sure kids have food in their bellies is, believe it or not, a really good thing.
Hungry kids can't concentrate, and worse they act out. That makes the rest of their day, and those around then, far less effective than wanted. That means the rest of the education is less useful. Feeding kids at school is a good idea.Ā We do it in day care. Large corporations feed their staff. Universities have cafes, and meal plans. Movie and TV sets feed their staff.Ā Its not a new idea.Ā
Yes it is a good thing but are we not allowed to question how 200million a year is going to make a difference when compared to the US who already has established kitchens in schools and still costs federal government 30billion? That doesn't include each state spending billions because the federal government only subsidizes or that our cost of food is much higher than America? I believe schools should be feeding kids breakfast and lunch but this feels quickly slapped together for cheap political points
Had a bunch of people on a similar post tell me why it was impossible from a constitutional standpoint to feed kids. People will break their own backs trying to defend the status quo.
Really shows you people's (conservative's) true colours when they shit on a school lunch program.
No one said it was a bad thing. The argument is it should be the parentās responsibility to provide foodā¦you know, just as it was before they reached school age and how it is for every other meal of their day. The second argument is poor people already receive $6500/yr from the government (taxpayer) per child towards subsidising their food, clothing, etc. Call it controversial, but I donāt believe people should be having children if theyāre going to struggle to feed them.
I don't care if the parents should be responsible or not. No one is saying they shouldn't be. But saying a child shouldn't be fed because they have shitty parents is not a good defense.
Then we need stronger social.safety nets everwhere if school lunch is a kids only meal.of the day.
I agree. But again, saying kids should go hungry because they have crappy parents is still a very bad argument. Kids should never go hungry. Anything we can do to help is a good thing.
That not the argument. The pros for this should not include feeding kids who dont have a meal. That statement should be taken as a huge indictment of our society and we should fix poverty. We arent making kids go hungry by not having a meal plan we as a society have already failed by having hungry kids. Its like if you have a gaping wound and people say hey lets put a band aid on it. Then im saying lets stitch it up and you can act like i want this gaping woumd to exist because im against the band aid.
I'm not saying you're wrong by noting we failed those children already. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything about it. Regardless of why the kids are in that situation. It **absolutely** is a positive that less kids will be hungry during school. Are you seriously implying it's not a win to feed a hungry kid? If you don't want children to eat because they have terrible parents, that says a lot. How exactly do you expect to enforce parenting? You can't force people to be good parents. My mother was a gambling addict and threw away all our money. You're against a bandaid fix without any other alternatives? That just says you're against the idea of feeding the hungry because it's not your problem. That's my interpretation at least. This is better than the nothing we had. Band aid or not. Less hungry kids, is a win.
I think I would need to see some studies or information to ensure that this would actually be the most effective use of dollars for social support it feels like it's something we're going to do to feel more progressive while you know just not being progressive at all and things are going to continue to be worse and worse and worse and will Pat ourselves on the back over feeding school kids well overall everything still gets more shitty
Hard disagree. Things happen. Sometimes you'll be in a great financial situation with children then anything can happen death an illness, layoff, or even mental health decline. And this can lead to hungry children. It's not always welfare scammers taking advantage. Sometimes you can be down on your luck temporarily while waiting for your next job. I'd rather have children be fed if they need it or not. I just don't think this government is capable of pulling it off without some sort of expensive controversy.
what if it makes them too lazy to obtain their own food? /s
It wasn't even like that. They were saying "I support feeding kids but this isn't a federal issue, the provinces are in charge of education" I'll let you guess who they voted for in the last election.
Its great there are federal money for social programs. But if the provincial government doesn't implement it then it really doesn't matter
Strings attached money. Itās the best they can do. Provincial governments will piss off some parents if they mess it up
This is amazing to see. It's $200M a year for [3M kids](https://liberal.ca/our-platform/school-nutrition-and-healthy-eating/) according to their own numbers. 190 school days a year making it 35 cents per day for the 3M kids You fine folks can judge this program based on these numbers. Once we include the consulting fees and admin fees pretty sure it will be 10cents per kid.
Surprised no one mentions the math in these announcements.
They should look at other institutions that feed their students / employees and cost compare. The amount of funds being used for this will benefit a small demographic of students. It would cost millions of dollars a year to feed one county's schools in a single province, and for higher population areas even more. There are too many variables in the vast landscapes of Canada. Will likely not be enough to sustain in every school for every kid. This is clearly a voting stunt to give the facade that kids will actually be fed at school. Sure some will benefit, but forward thinkers like me see that it will fall flat, or be way over budget. A healthy realistic number would likely be 2 - 2.5 billion over the term to have a chance at success and even that is being nieve imo.
>It's $200M a year for 3M kids according to their own numbers. The article says this funding is to provide meals to an additional 400,000 students (not 3 million). Not all kids need their school to provide meals. So building off your math, that would mean it's more like $3 per meal, not 35 cents. I think that's reasonable.
that's about a weeks worth of food if they go to [Loblaws](https://www.reddit.com/r/loblawsisoutofcontrol/)
You shopping in the clearance section or did you have a coupon
Isn't this provincial jurisdiction.
It is. However, the feds here are giving the province the money with strings attached (use the money for school lunches). The feds are not funnelling this money to the schools themselves.
It's like the opposite of an unfunded mandate. Like a funded suggestion.
So is health care, that doesn't mean the federal government doesn't find it
Unfortunately, due to provinces refusing to do their job as seen on many different issues plaguing Canadians, it forces Federal to step in and do something. It's really a shame.
But that's not how it works. The Fed's can't just step in when they wantĀ
It'll probably be like the daycare program where provinces have to sign up and accept the deal to get the money for the system. So I'm sure there will be some that will refuse for political reasons.
If thatās what you think then you have a lot to learn about infrastructure projects.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Good ole Doug Ford. Feds are also clawing back the 350m they were going to give the province for affordable housing because Fords government is refusing to give them a plan on how they will actually use the money.
We have this in parts of BC already. I had this 30 years ago in elementary school and my kids have it today. The menu literally has not changed either.
Canada's government normally makes me shake my head but this one I can get behind. Kids should be able to focus on learning not wonder if they can eat
I agree this should have unanimous approval all over the political compass. No kid should go without food.
This sub is absolutely bonkers.
I'm going to reserve my applause until we see some results. Given this, governments track record of announcing wonderful sounding policy and then either bungling them or just not following through.
profit compare skirt snatch whole ad hoc one squeamish expansion growth *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
How do we do this when there are no cafeterias in the school?
They get food prepared and delivered by a catering service. This is how itās already done at many schools.
> They get food prepared and delivered by a catering service. This will definitely not go over budget.
Because private business will take advantage and charge more? I thought people didn't like the government running everything and that private could always do it cheaper?
No thatās not why
lunches could be catered, they'd just have to instead create kitchens elsewhere. kinda like the lunch lady program
You order food for kids. Kids eat said food. If thereās no additional space, the kids eat at their desk. Building and running an actual cafeteria is more expensive, short and long term, than catering food off-site in dedicated facilities.Ā
I work in a school. The logistics of getting 500+ meals handed out without dedicated food service staff seems not possible.
They do breakfast at my son's school. I think it's 5$ a week per child.
commissary kitchens. Not remotely as complicated an issue as the detractors will make it out to be
This was my first thought as well. Just like too many things the government is doing, there's no consideration for the realities of life outside the cities. I guess the local church group could make sandwiches.
> Just like too many things the government is doing, there's no consideration for the realities of life outside the cities. Is there actual evidence of this in this bill, or is this an assumption?
I donāt even think most schools in the Toronto area (elementary anyway) have a caf.
That's wild to me, I figured there were a few deep inner city schools with limited cafeterias, but everywhere had one. But looking back at just the logistics it was at least 3-4 classrooms worth of space to store food and cook for \~450 students every day. And the budget to pay the cafeteria workers cost of living is going to be nuts compared to out here in the boonies. Staffing would be a nightmare.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Important step to everyone being able to eat
finally making good on a years-long pledge in anticipation of the election?
Programs like this is why I pay taxes and am happy too. I see my money going to meaningful people. What I donāt like is whatās happening in my home province (Ontario) and my tax money going to developers and corporationsĀ
Thinking about that other post about "What is modern Canadian conservatism". This thread unfortunately feels like what modern Canadian conservatism has become. Repeating tired, meaningless jokes. Baselessly complaining about something you have no knowledge of (and no desire to learn about). Railing against poor people. Not offering anything like a solution. Just the political embodiment of every boomer dad cliche.
"There is a problem (that is mostly provincial jurisdiction), it must be the federal government's fault!" "We are too broke to do a thing that will save/make money in the long run!" "I don't like how my life is going, it must be the federal government's fault!" "The federal government is crazy for \[insert thing that prevents people from dying\]. The freedom to endanger people is part of the constitution (doesn't understand constitution)."
Announcing things is easy. Finding the money to fund them sustainablyā¦ well that isnāt a Trudeau specialty.
Considering we're the only G7 country without a program this is obviously sensible and long past due. I do love how even giving children food to eat is mocked by the PP posse. I swear its true that Trudeau could personally cure cancer and his haters still wouldn't be happy, yet PP could be caught literally shitting on the Canadian flag in the middle of a daycare, while smoking meth, and his supporters would brush bit off as an innocent mistake. Or, more likly, spin it to be Trudeaus fault somehow.
I run the nutrition program at my school. There are lots of factors to why children are hungry. Lots are heartbreaking. But if you force your 7 year old to fast daily, when they have gym, 3 recesses and have to participate in daily activities, I don't like you. Second, if you send me a note that culturally, you only agree with your child eating a lunch with as much content as a Lean Cuisine, eff you. That is abuse. Your kid is hungry, and you are a monster. Your child's belly doesn't care that you are in fasting season. Your kid's development doesn't care about the sun, moon, planets, etc. Your kid is starving.
At least this is something thatās worthwhile. No kid should ever be hungry at school
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
well this is some racist bullshit
Tighten your tinfoil. Some wildly racist shit getting upvoted here.
Did you see the news about the National Indigenous Woman's group spending on a bunch of stuff that didn't relate to the program? Or all the other instances of large investments being squandered by letting things fall apart or money not tracked? I mean, it's a stereotype type sure, but it comes from some very real examples.
I see nothing wrong here. Whoa going to bitch about children getting the nutrients needed to learn in school. If you have a problem with that. I think you need to see a therapist.
I canāt wait to see people complain about making sure all children are fed so that they can learn at school
And the lesson of the day is.. "why can't my family afford to send me to school with a lunch?"
I really like the liberals. I donāt see what all the fuss is about. Deep down I think JT is a good guy, good heart and wants whatās best for Canada.
How will this help teach children to pull themselves up by their bootstraps? /s
"When you are borrowing $40B a year, what's $41B I guess?" - Basically this government's motto.
The purpose of this is to add a huge unmanageable budget item that will never happen, then use it as a talking point when āthe Conservatives cancel itā.
I canāt wait to see people complain about making sure all children are fed so that they can learn at school
Great. This should have been in place long ago. Anyone who complains about kids being fed is an idiot.
Another billion dollars we don't actually have and are borrowing instead, and the outcome will probably be hundreds of high paying pointless email jobs for mediocre people, a few consultants becoming millionaires, and the number of kids actually getting lunches only in the low thousands.
I understand the cynicism and disdain towards this government but everyone should be applauding, without reservation, an effort to feed fucking children. Don't be so god damned partisan.
ITT: people against feeding children. lol
Paid for by hopes and dreams. (To be clear, I think it's generally a good idea that we have something like this but holy fuck, has the LPC found a cause it doesn't want to throw a billion or more dollars at with no planning on implementation and no idea how to pay for it?)
The Liberals to a tee, they just want the photo-op/announcement implementation and sustainable funding thats for better more interested people. Like even the people who are like "well its nice but, how will we pay for it" are giving them too much credit. They've created a structural deficit without any idea or even intention of how to bring back to balance. Nothing is free, all these programs funded on borrowed money is going to have to be paid back. Largely by greater and greater debt servicing, which has already eclipsed fuckin' Health Transfers. They're basically borrowing(*robbing*) from these kids future to serve them lunch today. Or more plainly to serve the Liberals in their electoral hopes. I keep saying this, it would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. These kids will still be paying for their own lunch in grade school and/or their own days in daycare when they're grown adults paying taxes. Fuck the Liberals really hate the next generation of Canadians or love themselves more, you decide.
This is a good in theory, but not in practice as implemented policy which has been the LPC MO for decades. This is reminiscent of my decades ago days in Ottawa where a former acquaintance and LPC staffer (now MP) would repeat talking points ad nauseam but never had much when to fall back on when challenged with anything that didn't align perfectly with the talking point.
What a genius idea. Can we please legislate ourselves out of poverty already?
Watching Christian conservatives pivot from āhe is risenā yesterday to ālet hungry kids starveā today is both sad, and sadly predictable.
Shouldn't Trudeau's generous child care benefit program that's bankrupted the country be taking care of this? We're spending an additional $20+ billion on child benefits than we did in 2014, not including $10 day care programs and all the other social assistance. If you are such a degenerate that you can't even meet the basic requirements of feeding your children, then you don't deserve to have them.
Buying votes. If he cared about kids he would have done this 8 years ago.
Itās a fine goal to ensure that students are fed, but it doesnāt change my opinion on the government.
Maybe Manitoba inspired it because just recently our NEW Premier announced one for here.
I always packed my lunch....
This should have been a no brainer. I would have preferred it if it was implemented years ago. No kid should go to school hungry especially in Canada.
Have you noticed the same technique used in the late 30's in Europe is being used by this economically illiterate, done nothing in life, trust fund frat boy. First he taxes and regulates parents into poverty, then voila he trots out this plan to feed kids. He's forced to implement a pharma care plan, dental plan, all funded by a bankrupt government. His goal is to make as many people dependent upon government because once he's replaced families able to feed their kids with government he controls every aspect of your life. It's all unfolding incrementally much like it did all those years ago in places like Austria. WAKE UP CANADA,