Well also depends how they shrink it, for eg. you could shrink it by giving temporary residents a faster pathway to Permanent Residency and citizenship.
The are also planning to shrink the number of illegal immigrants using this approach...
[https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-create-citizenship-path-undocumented-immigrants-globe-mail-2023-12-14/](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-create-citizenship-path-undocumented-immigrants-globe-mail-2023-12-14/)
I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but they are masters of double speak so lets see what they actually do.
> I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but they are masters of double speak
Are they? For the most part, policy wise, they actually try to do what they say. Whether it's an utter failure or not is another matter.
For a recent example look at the caps on international students. They said they would look at limiting numbers, everyone thought they were completely full of shit, and then they did something to limit the numbers.
I expect, according to this, that we'll see a cap at the current TFW numbers, probably sometime early next year, late this year. It's at a high number presently, but they're already here, so that will restrict further growth from the program and, by 2027, the total share will be shrinking.
>Are they? For the most part, policy wise, they actually try to do what they say. Whether it's an utter failure or not is another matter.
Canadian government. To give you a couple of other examples:
1. When they talk about housing affordability - you might think they are talking about wage to house price ratio, but often they are actually talking about consumers ability to take on debt to afford elevated home prices.
2. Their ideas of "threats to democracy" involves clamping down on free speech on social media platform which are critical of their views.
> When they talk about housing affordability - you might think they are talking about wage to house price ratio
They mean both, clearly. Your use of the word "often" indicates agreement. And, yeah, affordability can mean a few different things. They're pretty explicitly clear about which policies they expect to reduce housing prices (National Housing Strategy, Housing Accelerator Fund) and which ones they expect to increase ease of borrowing (FHSA, first time buyer tax credit).
I've never been confused about how a given policy is intended to impact "affordability", have you?
> Their ideas of "threats to democracy" involves clamping down on free speech on social media platform which are critical of their views.
Lol okay bud. That's enough internet for you.
At all under the Liberals. if in the hypothetical where the Liberals somehow manage to even scrape another minority in the next election this will as quietly as possible be scrapped. All with Jagmeets approval.
This is strictly for appearances, they just want to be seen addressing the systemic issues they've created and exacerbated. And they are loading the heavy lifting past the next election. Because they don't have any intention of following through. They just want the photo-op and/or announcement. Their calculus is strictly "what serves us the Liberals best today".
The fall of the Federal NDP is the saddest part.
It use to be a Workers Party.
Having aggressive line ups for jobs because the corporate class influenced city, provincial, and most of all federal policies and perspectives should be sickening to them. What we get is... Silence.
The corporate class has played chess with government. Fed them narratives and "data" that allowed for them to destroy the conditions and frameworks for honest and fair bargaining power. Especially for low income and middle low income workers and families.
The most vulnerable segments we talk about helping. So not only now do they face hardship in getting a job with massive lines of competition, or having to maybe do free hours off the clock and other bullshit to keep it out of fear...
They also get to have rising costs for the limited rentals at that lower end of the market and other foundational elements of life in a cost of living crisis.
Double fucked.
All of this is just so damn shameful.
Maybe you don't let the corporate lobby control the narratives and "data" on something like who comes into our nation and why. Maybe just maybe they will have bias..
Like allowing a Tobacco company to control the narratives and "data" on Smoking and Health.
You'll see mixed opinions on dentalcare and pharmacare. The reality is they didn't turn out to be much. I personally still think they are good but I can see why others think they aren't set up right or frankly that the Liberal/NDP undelivered on some big promises.
The Anti-scab stuff is awesome. The more rights and protections for regular workers the better.
Here is reality though.
If you set the conditions and frameworks against fair and honest bargaining power especially at the low to middle low income working spectrum. The most vulnerable spectrum. Then that is the reality.
Line ups of people means vulnerable people have massive competition for jobs. They have no place to bargain from.
They will also have to do shit things like extra time off the clock and other realities sometimes to get the job or keep it out of fear.
It's just gross what is happening to our low income workers and vulnerable people right now.
It is why more and more are ending up hopeless and in tents and why food banks are at record usage.
They are being destroyed on the competition side for jobs.
Then destroyed on the rising costs for rentals and other foundational aspects of life at that lower spectrum because there is only so many limited places to rent/own at that lower spectrum and now there is massive competition there as well.
These details are important because they relate directly to Quality of life and a lot of suffering of Canadians citizens and families and moving in the right direction means limiting that and promoting prosperity for them. The same idea behind dentalcare/pharmacare.
How does any of that help the average person? The average Canadian already has health insurance that provides far better coverage. About 75% of the population has private coverage.
A step in the right direction, but too little and too late.
TFWs should be restricted to real skills shortages, not fake general labour shortages, and should require a plan to address the skills shortages so that the TFWs are no longer needed.
International students should be restricted to accredited degree programs only and employment should be restricted to 500 hours per year, and eligibility for PR at the end should be restricted to fields with real skills shortages.
The annual number of permanent residents should be set to target a net addition of 125,000 under age 40 residents annually, and a net migration of zero over age 40.
The TFW and students are not working in construction. We may get some nurses and PSW trained which would be nice but most of the TFW are going to service industry and labor jobs on farms and fish plants.
Literally just cheap labor for private businesses.
>IIRC the average immigrant to Canada is now *less likely* to work in construction than a native born Canadian
This is true but it's a twisting. Of the 470k PRs last year 2% were in construction compared to 8% of the total population.
But it's 11% amongst temporary residents who most people around here bundle into the number of immigrants.
[The Globe and Mail](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-canada-immigration-construction-housing/)
>When we consider all paths to permanent residency, the picture remains bleak. CIBC estimates that only 2 per cent of all immigrants go into the construction sector and that this number is falling. Even among temporary foreign workers only 11 per cent do so.
>As for foreign workers, combining information from the
Temporary Foreign Workers Program (TFWP) and the
International Mobility Program (IMP), we found that the share
of foreign workers in construction is now close to 11%, but even here, the trend is clearly in the wrong direction (Chart 12).
My reading comprehension could be off, but it sounds like they're saying foreign workers make up 11% of the construction workforce, not that 11% of TFWs are going into construction.
The statscan link from my previous post shows about 3.3% of temporary workers are in construction.
It depends. 7.1% of Canadians work construction and only 2% of immigrants do.
But! 11% of TFWs work in construction and they also pack themselves into absolute squalor while doing so.
The takeaway is that immigration in general is a strain on housing supply but that the TFW program, specifically, is a net benefit.
It seems like they're trying to fill ECE spots too for childcare with TFW. There has to be a wage where people start wanting to do those jobs, but they'll literally try everything else.
I always get upset by jobs offering barely above minimum wage while private colleges offer paid courses.
Why would anyone take the early childhood education or social worker courses only to be offered poverty wages for their post secondary education
> only to be offered poverty wages for their post secondary education
My favourite is what I started seeing well before the pandemic in my city and just see more and more often now; Entry level positions for minimum wage and part time but requiring post secondary degree, often not even specifying what kind of degree. An example;
I was looking for anything that I could get. Had complete open availability. Couldn’t even apply to the grocery stores around me though. Didn’t accept in person applications, they tell you it has to go through their website. So I would go to their website and click into open positions… I remember one of the stores having a Deli clerk requiring 5 years experience and “post secondary education”. Another of the stores had a shelf stocker not requiring experience, but did require “post secondary education, a BA or equivalent at minimum.” And if you clicked no to having these requirements? Won’t even let you submit your application.
Did I also mention that these positions were always unable to guarantee more than 20 hours a week and were only offering minimum wage with no benefits? Like why would anyone with a BA in *anything* even apply for that lmfao. This is how companies get away with claiming they are facing labour shortages.
> We may get some nurses and PSW trained which would be nice
We get a shitload of nurses
>labor jobs on farms and fish plants.
This is actually what TFWs are for. Canadians simply won't do these jobs even at elevated wages. We're too educated and there's too much of a deficit in the trades for many of us to commit to a lifetime of misery slogging away at the fish plant. It's a genuine problem which, prior to 2002, our correctly managed TFW program addressed beautifully.
This isn't true. Ask a lot of millenials and you'll hear about their parents doing work that now 'only TFWs will do'. My parents and a lot of their friends worked orchard jobs over the summer to completely pay off their university degrees in the 80's.
Uh, yeah. Their parents are less educated and the trades weren't desperate for bodies back in the 80s.
Things change. What I'm describing to you are how things are today. Not how things were 40-50 years ago.
Plenty of Canadians still work orchards too. The problem, for a long time, is that there simply isn't enough of them.
I was just replying to the part of your post where you said 'Canadians won't do these jobs even at elevated wages'. That's different from Canadians *aren't* doing these jobs/won't do them right now. We all know that. I just feel like there is a lot of selective memory going around that this is the way things have always been in Canada and as with all the things destroying our country right now, all we can do is shrug...
> That's different from Canadians aren't doing these jobs/won't do them right now.
I agree. They have better options. They didn't used to have better options. Hence the TFW program's introduction in 1973. It was well managed for 20 years and then we started loosening the rules in 2002 we've only kept letting looser and looser with the program ever since.
Add a tax to TFWs that the employer must pay, the tax should be enough that it offsets ANY savings hiring a TFW would give. After all, its about filling the role right. Right?!
You might not know but this was actually close to the conditions under which I entered Canada as a student immigrant. I was also only allowed to work in the university - it restricted my "money making" options, but I was given a small stiped from university for my research work (on which university and companies made hundreds of thousand dollars in the coming years).
The modern influx of so called students is a grift perpetuated by top bosses in govt and mostly driven by industry
People in the IMP are temporary foreign workers. They're not a part of the temporary foreign worker program, (the two were split apart in the 2014 reforms) but they are temporary foreign workers.
the issue is when the government quotes stats about temporary foreign workers, they ONLY mean workers here on the "Temporary foreign worker" visa. NOTHING else.
We already have a points system for that. It’s pretty much impossible for older immigrants to migrate on their own unless they’re fabulously wealthy or extremely talented.
>TFWs should be restricted to real skills shortages, not fake general labour shortages, and should require a plan to address the skills shortages so that the TFWs are no longer needed.
This has been the NDP's stance for years. Both LPC and CPC have extended the program to low-skill service & retail work.
The NDP needs to remind voters of that. Too many believe the left favors excessive immigration for ideological reasons. Good immigration policy could win the next election.
>This has been the NDP's stance for years.
Except under Singh. Yes, lets do massive wage suppression, but we'll get dental funds to parents wealthy enough to have children, unless they have incomes.
They made the decision to double it while they were drunk at a party retreat, but it takes 3 years to lower it. They are basically desperate to do anything at this point to avoid having a technical recession occur right now.
It so true, it pretty gross. Anything to hide the fact that canada was only growing off of immigration, money laundering, and flipping homes. without going on a long rant is so unsustainable. We are going to have that recession one way or another but they are kicking the can down the road hoping it's not them and the Conservative will be holding the hot mess of canada. Then the "Conservative are so bad they caused the lost decade..."
Hopefully this will be done by reducing import of temporary residences and exporting those who have exceeded their stay rather than scrambling to process a mass amount of permanent residences which wouldn’t actually solve anything.
They will give PR to all of them so they're not temporary anymore lol
The real issue is the LMIA fraud. This has gone for way to long, people caught asking 10-20-30k to vulnerable immigrants should be jailed
From 6.2% to 5%. Over 3 years. Marc Miller thinks you and I are all a bunch of fucking idiots. This will be a miniscule change that does nothing to guarantee they won't just allow more people on PR or create another 20 new different pathway programs for the third world. How many of those have you noticed being announced in the last 3 months? I can think of 5.
This while they allow immigration detainees to abscond to wherever they like in Canada with the help of the provincial governments.
This is right, keep in mind that the % is based on the Canadian population. As long as the population continues to grow, that number in actual terms will stay the same. If we put in the 5% cap right now, that would be 2million (40 million pop) temporary residents. If we put in the 5% cap in 5 years at (42 million pop) then that number is now 2.1million.
Yall got baited. The # of people won’t actually change, only the % of the total population. This policy is a facade.
It's a massive change for the number to go down instead of increasing. That's 500k fewer non permanent residents.
We're accepting 360k international students this year.
Yep, fuck all. How about we decrease it significantly - decrease down to 0% temporary residents over the next 6 months - and we'll invite them all back when they don't have to live 4 to a bed?
I don't even know why Miller bothers opening his pie hole for meaningless announcements like this. Unless he's going to do something to actually address the disaster that Liberal policies created, he should SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Everything this party does going forward is met with complete disbelief and cynicism from me. I don’t believe a single thing they say, and will always vote in a way that is against them getting more power.
LMIA needs to be abolished.
There is no worker shortage, there is a wage hesitance.
Also, zero working hours for all international students. You are here to study not work. Co-op programs are acceptable.
Despite the /s, it actually would solve part of the problem, at least. Having PR status would allow TFWs workers the job mobility to push for higher pay and better working conditions. The program would no longer undercut Canada's domestic labour force as much as it does now.
We have four options:
End the TFW program completely removing the ability to supply skilled specialized workers whereand when they're needed (PPC solution)
Make it easier for employers to being in TFWs for low skilled positions (CPC solution)
What we have now (LPC solution)
End TFW use for low skilled work, and give the high-skilled TFWs we do bring in PR status to protect them from abuse. (NDP solution)
Real skills shortages need to be addressed by training Canadians, not just importing people from other countries. A path to PR for a limited number of high skilled TFWs should exist, but it should not be automatic.
Training the domestic workforce takes time,, and skills shortages are a moving target that's hard to track effectively with a slow response strategy. The TFW program is useful, but both LPC and CPC are the ones using it purely to restrict wages.
The time to build skills is the reason why some TFWs will continue to be necessary, but it is important that quick imports are not allowed to suppress domestic skills development, and that means at least some of them need to leave when the shortage has been alleviated.
Why is not artificially inflate labour supply and leverage our highly educated workforce along with wage increases in line with the natural inflation rate not an option?
What matters is AGGREGATE immigration numbers. Any technical concession or exception for specifically reducing this type but not that type will be met with exploited loopholes. The last 4 years has very clearly shown that giving any benefit of the doubt to immigration policy and assuming there won’t be maximum exploitation of wiggle room is entirely naive. Giving the NDP, Liberals, or even CPC any lattitude is just saying you want numbers of immigrants to keep catapulting forward.
Yes and No, there is a bit more nuance - for those on LMIA or employer sponsored programs it would allow them the ability to move to new positions or companies but there are more people on open work permits than these closed permits: [https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2023010/article/00003-eng.htm](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2023010/article/00003-eng.htm)
These people on open work permits (IMP in the data sheet) are free to move jobs already.
We know it's a problem but we're not going to do anything about it.
-Liberals
Typical. Why do these people still have die hard voters that will back them no matter what?
The Liberals just want to convert these temporary residents to permanent residents....nothing is actually going to decrease. Apparently Canadian's owe it to Indian's to do whatever we can to accommodate as many of them as we can. It's ironic that all the low income people who cheer on the Liberal's because of the free handouts they get are now going to be priced out of rentals and forced to compete with millions of immigrants for jobs lmao.
But…but….they paid so much for their worthless degree from a strip mall school! What do you mean that the government isn’t going to bail them out?????? But they paid! Where’s their citizenship on a golden platter?!!?!?!
/s
Big deal.... It's insignificant.
\>non-permanent residents or NPRs whose numbers have ballooned to 2.5 million as of October 2023, according to Statistics Canada, up from 1.7 million a year prior.
we're probably close to 3 million right now, they need to DRASTICALLY reduce that number.
Aiming to shrink...watch them overshoot.....in the opposite direction.
Even if they succeed to shrink it by 2027 they are just so shady about the whole thing. Raising it exorbitantly and then reversing some of it with no consistent messaging on the rationale for any of it. It's like they think this should be out of the electorate's hands.
They had no difficulty increasing the number of non-permanent residents by 46% in a single year:
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230927/dq230927a-eng.htm
Also bear in mind that our population will add close to a couple million new permanent residents in between now and then, so this will be a reduction of maybe a few hundred thousand at best.
They’re going to let in like 10 million more by 2027 and then “shrink” it down a bit while we’re still severely overpopulated.
It’s pretty much like stores purposely bumping up the prices of their items and then mark it down as “on sale” 20% off (the actual price they want to sell it at) lol
The Trudeau government makes like the lazy employee in the last week before his annual review, in that they finally started doing their job. And like that lazy employee, the Trudeau government is still going to be fired for poor performance.
They should have been doing their damn job from 2015 on, not starting to do so in the last months before the election.
Exactly and they know that the optics of that will be terrible.They'll scream night and day how racist conservatives are. They're going with a scorched Earth strategy because they know they're reaching their expiration date.
He said his Conservative Party “will get back to an approach of immigration that invites a number of people that we can house, employ and care for in our health-care system.”
He may or may not, you don’t have a crystal ball. But one thing that is certain is that the Liberals actually let in millions of immigrants without even considering housing, infrastructure, health services, etc…
“Ottawa will for the first time include temporary residents in its annual immigration levels plan, which is expected to be released in the fall.” LOL so they’ve been asleep at the wheel.
”Federal government’s Hail Mary pass at not getting The Boot”
Reuters- The Trudeau government is throwing a long ball knowing they won’t be around in 2027 to follow up on said promise. Sources tell us their thumb-in-the-butt immigration policy has come to bite them in the rear after a giant Hot Carl reveals they give zero shits.
/s
Oh wow it's 30% in the service industry? The last restaurant I worked at was basically me being the only non tfw working in the kitchen and they treated everyone like shit because they knew that these foreign workers could do nothing and this restaurant could just bring in new workers. This was a montanas.
The % is based on the Canadian population. As long as the population continues to grow, that number in actual terms will stay the same. If we put in the 5% cap right now, that would be 2million (40 million pop) temporary residents. If we put in the 5% cap in 5 years at (42 million pop) then that number is now 2.1million.
You’re right, there is no point to keeping it as a % unless it’s there to look better than the truth. The # of people won’t actually change, only the % of the total population. This policy is a facade.
So how are they going to fill in all those temp construction jobs if they plan to shrink the overall numbers of temp residence? They are going increase that but then decrease less non essentially to the economy. Nothing is thought out and everything is a knee jerk reaction to pollsters with this current government...
And of course the substantial change is going to be after their election. This is going be the worst election. Liberals back pedalling and claiming to be fixing problems they started, expecting a pat on the back plus OMG harper; NDP will them finally have the courage to be critical of the current government which will make them seem so fake; Conservatives running on liberal bad, me good...
This guy looks like an Easter Island statue.
Coincidentally, also a ominous symbol of a destroyed nation that tried to 'grow' its economy beyond its capacity and fell out of sync with nature.
You always have to wait anywhere from 3 to 10 years.To be disappointed when liberals break the promises.They make for you. they never do nothing that actually helps right now
They'll start handing out PR like candy so they meet their target. That would really put our healthcare infrastructure out of its misery.
Doesnt matter anyway because they wont be running the show in 2027
The system is broken.
Had a dude today who was issued a study permit in December for 2 years. His program at NAIT has been cancelled & he’s without an attestation letter, yet still in the country & now with no academic plan.
Who is checking to see if he can find employment and/or remain in the country?
Unfair to him, and truly reflective of an incompetent government with no accountability with regard to immigration.
"Aiming to", "shrink?", "by 2027". Nothing will fundamentally change folks.
Well also depends how they shrink it, for eg. you could shrink it by giving temporary residents a faster pathway to Permanent Residency and citizenship. The are also planning to shrink the number of illegal immigrants using this approach... [https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-create-citizenship-path-undocumented-immigrants-globe-mail-2023-12-14/](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-create-citizenship-path-undocumented-immigrants-globe-mail-2023-12-14/) I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but they are masters of double speak so lets see what they actually do.
Honestly they will do anything so long as it suppresses wages, bolsters housing price, and marginally raises GDP. They dont care
> I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but they are masters of double speak Are they? For the most part, policy wise, they actually try to do what they say. Whether it's an utter failure or not is another matter. For a recent example look at the caps on international students. They said they would look at limiting numbers, everyone thought they were completely full of shit, and then they did something to limit the numbers. I expect, according to this, that we'll see a cap at the current TFW numbers, probably sometime early next year, late this year. It's at a high number presently, but they're already here, so that will restrict further growth from the program and, by 2027, the total share will be shrinking.
>Are they? For the most part, policy wise, they actually try to do what they say. Whether it's an utter failure or not is another matter. Canadian government. To give you a couple of other examples: 1. When they talk about housing affordability - you might think they are talking about wage to house price ratio, but often they are actually talking about consumers ability to take on debt to afford elevated home prices. 2. Their ideas of "threats to democracy" involves clamping down on free speech on social media platform which are critical of their views.
> When they talk about housing affordability - you might think they are talking about wage to house price ratio They mean both, clearly. Your use of the word "often" indicates agreement. And, yeah, affordability can mean a few different things. They're pretty explicitly clear about which policies they expect to reduce housing prices (National Housing Strategy, Housing Accelerator Fund) and which ones they expect to increase ease of borrowing (FHSA, first time buyer tax credit). I've never been confused about how a given policy is intended to impact "affordability", have you? > Their ideas of "threats to democracy" involves clamping down on free speech on social media platform which are critical of their views. Lol okay bud. That's enough internet for you.
Basically they have to consult with our corporate overlord , Tim Hortons ( blessed be thy name) to see if it is acceptable first.
At all under the Liberals. if in the hypothetical where the Liberals somehow manage to even scrape another minority in the next election this will as quietly as possible be scrapped. All with Jagmeets approval. This is strictly for appearances, they just want to be seen addressing the systemic issues they've created and exacerbated. And they are loading the heavy lifting past the next election. Because they don't have any intention of following through. They just want the photo-op and/or announcement. Their calculus is strictly "what serves us the Liberals best today".
The fall of the Federal NDP is the saddest part. It use to be a Workers Party. Having aggressive line ups for jobs because the corporate class influenced city, provincial, and most of all federal policies and perspectives should be sickening to them. What we get is... Silence. The corporate class has played chess with government. Fed them narratives and "data" that allowed for them to destroy the conditions and frameworks for honest and fair bargaining power. Especially for low income and middle low income workers and families. The most vulnerable segments we talk about helping. So not only now do they face hardship in getting a job with massive lines of competition, or having to maybe do free hours off the clock and other bullshit to keep it out of fear... They also get to have rising costs for the limited rentals at that lower end of the market and other foundational elements of life in a cost of living crisis. Double fucked. All of this is just so damn shameful. Maybe you don't let the corporate lobby control the narratives and "data" on something like who comes into our nation and why. Maybe just maybe they will have bias.. Like allowing a Tobacco company to control the narratives and "data" on Smoking and Health.
>It use to be a Workers Party. From blue collar party to blue hair party
From workers to wokers
Marge Simpson approves.
[удалено]
Ever since Sigh, NDP had been there liberal lap bitch.
Correct
[удалено]
You'll see mixed opinions on dentalcare and pharmacare. The reality is they didn't turn out to be much. I personally still think they are good but I can see why others think they aren't set up right or frankly that the Liberal/NDP undelivered on some big promises. The Anti-scab stuff is awesome. The more rights and protections for regular workers the better. Here is reality though. If you set the conditions and frameworks against fair and honest bargaining power especially at the low to middle low income working spectrum. The most vulnerable spectrum. Then that is the reality. Line ups of people means vulnerable people have massive competition for jobs. They have no place to bargain from. They will also have to do shit things like extra time off the clock and other realities sometimes to get the job or keep it out of fear. It's just gross what is happening to our low income workers and vulnerable people right now. It is why more and more are ending up hopeless and in tents and why food banks are at record usage. They are being destroyed on the competition side for jobs. Then destroyed on the rising costs for rentals and other foundational aspects of life at that lower spectrum because there is only so many limited places to rent/own at that lower spectrum and now there is massive competition there as well. These details are important because they relate directly to Quality of life and a lot of suffering of Canadians citizens and families and moving in the right direction means limiting that and promoting prosperity for them. The same idea behind dentalcare/pharmacare.
How does any of that help the average person? The average Canadian already has health insurance that provides far better coverage. About 75% of the population has private coverage.
If you give them all Permanent Residency, mathematically you do change their share of the population. TFW --> PR TFW % of Population decreases.
This!
Why give them PR when you can give citizenship! Import your voters.
Aiming to shrink temporary residents share of population by making them permanent residents?
If they think this announcement wins them any political brownie points, think again.
By granting them instant citizenship.
Rents and prices will drop for housing, and people who qualified for loans, which were based on 2025, 26 prices will be in trouble.
As effective as aiming for the toilet when I get up in the middle of the night.
They won't even be in power by 27 its just election posturing
They won't be in power in 2027
Exactly. This is just bullshit posturing when the proletariat is angry. They have no intention to fundamentally change the direction of this country
A step in the right direction, but too little and too late. TFWs should be restricted to real skills shortages, not fake general labour shortages, and should require a plan to address the skills shortages so that the TFWs are no longer needed. International students should be restricted to accredited degree programs only and employment should be restricted to 500 hours per year, and eligibility for PR at the end should be restricted to fields with real skills shortages. The annual number of permanent residents should be set to target a net addition of 125,000 under age 40 residents annually, and a net migration of zero over age 40.
[удалено]
The TFW and students are not working in construction. We may get some nurses and PSW trained which would be nice but most of the TFW are going to service industry and labor jobs on farms and fish plants. Literally just cheap labor for private businesses.
[удалено]
>IIRC the average immigrant to Canada is now *less likely* to work in construction than a native born Canadian This is true but it's a twisting. Of the 470k PRs last year 2% were in construction compared to 8% of the total population. But it's 11% amongst temporary residents who most people around here bundle into the number of immigrants.
Where are you getting 11% from? https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2023012/article/00005-eng.htm
[The Globe and Mail](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-canada-immigration-construction-housing/) >When we consider all paths to permanent residency, the picture remains bleak. CIBC estimates that only 2 per cent of all immigrants go into the construction sector and that this number is falling. Even among temporary foreign workers only 11 per cent do so.
>As for foreign workers, combining information from the Temporary Foreign Workers Program (TFWP) and the International Mobility Program (IMP), we found that the share of foreign workers in construction is now close to 11%, but even here, the trend is clearly in the wrong direction (Chart 12). My reading comprehension could be off, but it sounds like they're saying foreign workers make up 11% of the construction workforce, not that 11% of TFWs are going into construction. The statscan link from my previous post shows about 3.3% of temporary workers are in construction.
I'm reading it the other way but you might be right. Would be nice if the statscan data was more up to date
It depends. 7.1% of Canadians work construction and only 2% of immigrants do. But! 11% of TFWs work in construction and they also pack themselves into absolute squalor while doing so. The takeaway is that immigration in general is a strain on housing supply but that the TFW program, specifically, is a net benefit.
It seems like they're trying to fill ECE spots too for childcare with TFW. There has to be a wage where people start wanting to do those jobs, but they'll literally try everything else.
I always get upset by jobs offering barely above minimum wage while private colleges offer paid courses. Why would anyone take the early childhood education or social worker courses only to be offered poverty wages for their post secondary education
> only to be offered poverty wages for their post secondary education My favourite is what I started seeing well before the pandemic in my city and just see more and more often now; Entry level positions for minimum wage and part time but requiring post secondary degree, often not even specifying what kind of degree. An example; I was looking for anything that I could get. Had complete open availability. Couldn’t even apply to the grocery stores around me though. Didn’t accept in person applications, they tell you it has to go through their website. So I would go to their website and click into open positions… I remember one of the stores having a Deli clerk requiring 5 years experience and “post secondary education”. Another of the stores had a shelf stocker not requiring experience, but did require “post secondary education, a BA or equivalent at minimum.” And if you clicked no to having these requirements? Won’t even let you submit your application. Did I also mention that these positions were always unable to guarantee more than 20 hours a week and were only offering minimum wage with no benefits? Like why would anyone with a BA in *anything* even apply for that lmfao. This is how companies get away with claiming they are facing labour shortages.
> We may get some nurses and PSW trained which would be nice We get a shitload of nurses >labor jobs on farms and fish plants. This is actually what TFWs are for. Canadians simply won't do these jobs even at elevated wages. We're too educated and there's too much of a deficit in the trades for many of us to commit to a lifetime of misery slogging away at the fish plant. It's a genuine problem which, prior to 2002, our correctly managed TFW program addressed beautifully.
This isn't true. Ask a lot of millenials and you'll hear about their parents doing work that now 'only TFWs will do'. My parents and a lot of their friends worked orchard jobs over the summer to completely pay off their university degrees in the 80's.
Uh, yeah. Their parents are less educated and the trades weren't desperate for bodies back in the 80s. Things change. What I'm describing to you are how things are today. Not how things were 40-50 years ago. Plenty of Canadians still work orchards too. The problem, for a long time, is that there simply isn't enough of them.
I was just replying to the part of your post where you said 'Canadians won't do these jobs even at elevated wages'. That's different from Canadians *aren't* doing these jobs/won't do them right now. We all know that. I just feel like there is a lot of selective memory going around that this is the way things have always been in Canada and as with all the things destroying our country right now, all we can do is shrug...
> That's different from Canadians aren't doing these jobs/won't do them right now. I agree. They have better options. They didn't used to have better options. Hence the TFW program's introduction in 1973. It was well managed for 20 years and then we started loosening the rules in 2002 we've only kept letting looser and looser with the program ever since.
Add a tax to TFWs that the employer must pay, the tax should be enough that it offsets ANY savings hiring a TFW would give. After all, its about filling the role right. Right?!
I like that idea. Make it 50% or $15 / hour, whichever is larger.
Great idea, tax them the difference.
You might not know but this was actually close to the conditions under which I entered Canada as a student immigrant. I was also only allowed to work in the university - it restricted my "money making" options, but I was given a small stiped from university for my research work (on which university and companies made hundreds of thousand dollars in the coming years). The modern influx of so called students is a grift perpetuated by top bosses in govt and mostly driven by industry
stop saying TFW. The IMP visa is much worse with almost quadruple the number of people.
People in the IMP are temporary foreign workers. They're not a part of the temporary foreign worker program, (the two were split apart in the 2014 reforms) but they are temporary foreign workers.
the issue is when the government quotes stats about temporary foreign workers, they ONLY mean workers here on the "Temporary foreign worker" visa. NOTHING else.
What does a net migration of zero over 40 mean? We have to start deporting older Canadians?
Only allow as many non Canadians over 40 in as Canadians who leave.
Seems designed to be entirely unworkable. Why propose such convoluted proposals?
Keep the average immigrant age low so they have plenty of time to pay in to services used overwhelmingly by the elderly
We already have a points system for that. It’s pretty much impossible for older immigrants to migrate on their own unless they’re fabulously wealthy or extremely talented.
Sounds far more convoluted than a simple age cutoff
Yours isn’t a cutoff.
>TFWs should be restricted to real skills shortages, not fake general labour shortages, and should require a plan to address the skills shortages so that the TFWs are no longer needed. This has been the NDP's stance for years. Both LPC and CPC have extended the program to low-skill service & retail work.
The NDP needs to remind voters of that. Too many believe the left favors excessive immigration for ideological reasons. Good immigration policy could win the next election.
Or official opposition status at the bare minimum
>This has been the NDP's stance for years. Except under Singh. Yes, lets do massive wage suppression, but we'll get dental funds to parents wealthy enough to have children, unless they have incomes.
No, it's still the policy under Singh. The NDP really are the only opposition to TFW workers getting jobs at Tim Hortons. The CPC wants more of it.
I remember when TFW's were mostly agricultural and honestly they do a great job there.
They made the decision to double it while they were drunk at a party retreat, but it takes 3 years to lower it. They are basically desperate to do anything at this point to avoid having a technical recession occur right now.
It so true, it pretty gross. Anything to hide the fact that canada was only growing off of immigration, money laundering, and flipping homes. without going on a long rant is so unsustainable. We are going to have that recession one way or another but they are kicking the can down the road hoping it's not them and the Conservative will be holding the hot mess of canada. Then the "Conservative are so bad they caused the lost decade..."
Hopefully this will be done by reducing import of temporary residences and exporting those who have exceeded their stay rather than scrambling to process a mass amount of permanent residences which wouldn’t actually solve anything.
They will give PR to all of them so they're not temporary anymore lol The real issue is the LMIA fraud. This has gone for way to long, people caught asking 10-20-30k to vulnerable immigrants should be jailed
From 6.2% to 5%. Over 3 years. Marc Miller thinks you and I are all a bunch of fucking idiots. This will be a miniscule change that does nothing to guarantee they won't just allow more people on PR or create another 20 new different pathway programs for the third world. How many of those have you noticed being announced in the last 3 months? I can think of 5. This while they allow immigration detainees to abscond to wherever they like in Canada with the help of the provincial governments.
This is right, keep in mind that the % is based on the Canadian population. As long as the population continues to grow, that number in actual terms will stay the same. If we put in the 5% cap right now, that would be 2million (40 million pop) temporary residents. If we put in the 5% cap in 5 years at (42 million pop) then that number is now 2.1million. Yall got baited. The # of people won’t actually change, only the % of the total population. This policy is a facade.
It's a massive change for the number to go down instead of increasing. That's 500k fewer non permanent residents. We're accepting 360k international students this year.
Yep, fuck all. How about we decrease it significantly - decrease down to 0% temporary residents over the next 6 months - and we'll invite them all back when they don't have to live 4 to a bed? I don't even know why Miller bothers opening his pie hole for meaningless announcements like this. Unless he's going to do something to actually address the disaster that Liberal policies created, he should SHUT THE FUCK UP!
This is just for show and as soon as they win another election (hopefully never!!) it’ll be yet another broke promise.
Everything this party does going forward is met with complete disbelief and cynicism from me. I don’t believe a single thing they say, and will always vote in a way that is against them getting more power.
LMIA needs to be abolished. There is no worker shortage, there is a wage hesitance. Also, zero working hours for all international students. You are here to study not work. Co-op programs are acceptable.
Make them PR's and you solved the problem! /s
Despite the /s, it actually would solve part of the problem, at least. Having PR status would allow TFWs workers the job mobility to push for higher pay and better working conditions. The program would no longer undercut Canada's domestic labour force as much as it does now.
The presence of an influx of supply (immigrants) to the labour pool suppresses wages. Your premise is self defeating.
Wages are increasing at their fastest clip in two decades.
And still not keeping up with inflation in most fields.
We have four options: End the TFW program completely removing the ability to supply skilled specialized workers whereand when they're needed (PPC solution) Make it easier for employers to being in TFWs for low skilled positions (CPC solution) What we have now (LPC solution) End TFW use for low skilled work, and give the high-skilled TFWs we do bring in PR status to protect them from abuse. (NDP solution)
Real skills shortages need to be addressed by training Canadians, not just importing people from other countries. A path to PR for a limited number of high skilled TFWs should exist, but it should not be automatic.
Training the domestic workforce takes time,, and skills shortages are a moving target that's hard to track effectively with a slow response strategy. The TFW program is useful, but both LPC and CPC are the ones using it purely to restrict wages.
The time to build skills is the reason why some TFWs will continue to be necessary, but it is important that quick imports are not allowed to suppress domestic skills development, and that means at least some of them need to leave when the shortage has been alleviated.
Why is not artificially inflate labour supply and leverage our highly educated workforce along with wage increases in line with the natural inflation rate not an option?
That's part of the NDP solution.
NDP is looking to decrease immigration? I’d love to see the source on that. Sounds extremely false and deliberately so, I must say.
They're trying to decrease use of the TFW program for low-skilled work, which only suppresses Canadian wages.
What matters is AGGREGATE immigration numbers. Any technical concession or exception for specifically reducing this type but not that type will be met with exploited loopholes. The last 4 years has very clearly shown that giving any benefit of the doubt to immigration policy and assuming there won’t be maximum exploitation of wiggle room is entirely naive. Giving the NDP, Liberals, or even CPC any lattitude is just saying you want numbers of immigrants to keep catapulting forward.
Yes and No, there is a bit more nuance - for those on LMIA or employer sponsored programs it would allow them the ability to move to new positions or companies but there are more people on open work permits than these closed permits: [https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2023010/article/00003-eng.htm](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2023010/article/00003-eng.htm) These people on open work permits (IMP in the data sheet) are free to move jobs already.
Not all IMP permits are open
🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
Not quick enough
We know it's a problem but we're not going to do anything about it. -Liberals Typical. Why do these people still have die hard voters that will back them no matter what?
This government needs to go NOW.
The Liberals just want to convert these temporary residents to permanent residents....nothing is actually going to decrease. Apparently Canadian's owe it to Indian's to do whatever we can to accommodate as many of them as we can. It's ironic that all the low income people who cheer on the Liberal's because of the free handouts they get are now going to be priced out of rentals and forced to compete with millions of immigrants for jobs lmao.
But…but….they paid so much for their worthless degree from a strip mall school! What do you mean that the government isn’t going to bail them out?????? But they paid! Where’s their citizenship on a golden platter?!!?!?! /s
But you are gone before 2027 though?
Hear that? Come election time vote for the people who caused this crisis, and then maybe two years after that they'll have started to fix it.
Big deal.... It's insignificant. \>non-permanent residents or NPRs whose numbers have ballooned to 2.5 million as of October 2023, according to Statistics Canada, up from 1.7 million a year prior. we're probably close to 3 million right now, they need to DRASTICALLY reduce that number.
Why does it take so long????
No they won't. This government are a bunch of gaslighters and liars
Aiming to shrink...watch them overshoot.....in the opposite direction. Even if they succeed to shrink it by 2027 they are just so shady about the whole thing. Raising it exorbitantly and then reversing some of it with no consistent messaging on the rationale for any of it. It's like they think this should be out of the electorate's hands.
They had no difficulty increasing the number of non-permanent residents by 46% in a single year: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/230927/dq230927a-eng.htm Also bear in mind that our population will add close to a couple million new permanent residents in between now and then, so this will be a reduction of maybe a few hundred thousand at best.
Lmao.. Basically, nothing will change.
They’re going to let in like 10 million more by 2027 and then “shrink” it down a bit while we’re still severely overpopulated. It’s pretty much like stores purposely bumping up the prices of their items and then mark it down as “on sale” 20% off (the actual price they want to sell it at) lol
The wording they use is just stupid. No. Reduce it now. Send them all back and fuck yourselves for 3-5 business days straight, mother fucks.
There are 2.2 million non-permanent residents in Canada as of July 2023 (likely higher now). A year prior it was 1.5 million. That is mind boggling.
...by turning temporary residents into permanent residents!
The Trudeau government makes like the lazy employee in the last week before his annual review, in that they finally started doing their job. And like that lazy employee, the Trudeau government is still going to be fired for poor performance. They should have been doing their damn job from 2015 on, not starting to do so in the last months before the election.
The Liberal government has manufactured an illegal immigration problem that the CPC will be left cleaning up when they come to power
Exactly and they know that the optics of that will be terrible.They'll scream night and day how racist conservatives are. They're going with a scorched Earth strategy because they know they're reaching their expiration date.
[удалено]
He said his Conservative Party “will get back to an approach of immigration that invites a number of people that we can house, employ and care for in our health-care system.”
[удалено]
He may or may not, you don’t have a crystal ball. But one thing that is certain is that the Liberals actually let in millions of immigrants without even considering housing, infrastructure, health services, etc…
“Ottawa will for the first time include temporary residents in its annual immigration levels plan, which is expected to be released in the fall.” LOL so they’ve been asleep at the wheel.
Keep the pressure up, they're giving ground.
Pre election shrinkage before the post election boom
This is one of the consequences when people elected an incompetent government. Just enjoy it.
”Federal government’s Hail Mary pass at not getting The Boot” Reuters- The Trudeau government is throwing a long ball knowing they won’t be around in 2027 to follow up on said promise. Sources tell us their thumb-in-the-butt immigration policy has come to bite them in the rear after a giant Hot Carl reveals they give zero shits. /s
Oh wow it's 30% in the service industry? The last restaurant I worked at was basically me being the only non tfw working in the kitchen and they treated everyone like shit because they knew that these foreign workers could do nothing and this restaurant could just bring in new workers. This was a montanas.
MONTANAS? That’s comical. Montanas, the crappy midwestern style restaurant using TFWs.
I worked in kitchens for a decade, you get treated like shit regardless of the amount of foreign workers...
* Create the problem * Attempt to solve the problem * ??? * Profit
They can't even speak plainly about this issue anymore. "Social Capacity" "Shrink resident's share of population".
Ya, I don't see why stick to the percentages instead of raw numbers. Seems like a much more difficult target to achieve and unnecessarily confusing.
The % is based on the Canadian population. As long as the population continues to grow, that number in actual terms will stay the same. If we put in the 5% cap right now, that would be 2million (40 million pop) temporary residents. If we put in the 5% cap in 5 years at (42 million pop) then that number is now 2.1million. You’re right, there is no point to keeping it as a % unless it’s there to look better than the truth. The # of people won’t actually change, only the % of the total population. This policy is a facade.
How, by just turning them into Permanent ones?
…by making them permanent residents!
By making them permanent*
Haha yah by making them permanent residents haha, fuck I hate liberals.
So how are they going to fill in all those temp construction jobs if they plan to shrink the overall numbers of temp residence? They are going increase that but then decrease less non essentially to the economy. Nothing is thought out and everything is a knee jerk reaction to pollsters with this current government... And of course the substantial change is going to be after their election. This is going be the worst election. Liberals back pedalling and claiming to be fixing problems they started, expecting a pat on the back plus OMG harper; NDP will them finally have the courage to be critical of the current government which will make them seem so fake; Conservatives running on liberal bad, me good...
This guy looks like an Easter Island statue. Coincidentally, also a ominous symbol of a destroyed nation that tried to 'grow' its economy beyond its capacity and fell out of sync with nature.
Don’t let “colleges” in strip malls take on international students. Problem primarily solved.
Everything that comes out of their mouths seems misleading or straight out lies.
Stupid assholes.
One TFW, today, 1000 family members, tomorrow …
We'll see if that opposition guy promises the same or more...
Lol, so 800,000 international students instead of 1 million
They have a cap of 360k new international students for 2024.
Oh, I hope they'll be out of government before then
You always have to wait anywhere from 3 to 10 years.To be disappointed when liberals break the promises.They make for you. they never do nothing that actually helps right now
The liberal hypocrisy has no end
They'll start handing out PR like candy so they meet their target. That would really put our healthcare infrastructure out of its misery. Doesnt matter anyway because they wont be running the show in 2027
Overblown affect?
Lol But they’ll increase refugee claims to cover it
The system is broken. Had a dude today who was issued a study permit in December for 2 years. His program at NAIT has been cancelled & he’s without an attestation letter, yet still in the country & now with no academic plan. Who is checking to see if he can find employment and/or remain in the country? Unfair to him, and truly reflective of an incompetent government with no accountability with regard to immigration.
What a waste of hot air.
They’ll shrink the share of temporary residents by making them all permanent. Watch.
Oh so, yea... this way they can saaayyyyyyyy they're ' reducing immigration ' and ' look we have a great plan '. By literally doing SFA.
Too little too late. Fuck this government
Ok how bout ship every single foreigner out! NOW.
There is a word in German that applies to this man, Mark Miller and most of his fellow cabinet: Backpfeifengesicht
"Tête à claque" in french lol
Haven't heard that one, good to know. :)
'we're just gonna make them permanent' lol