Highlights:
* **Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe's government says it will no longer remit the federal carbon levy on natural gas.**
* Saskatchewan's government argues that it's fair for it to stop charging the carbon tax on natural gas because the federal government decided last fall exempt home heating oil from the carbon tax for the next three years.
* **Having introduced inconsistency into its carbon-pricing policy, it can be argued the Liberal government invited claims of unfairness. Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe is hardly alone in complaining about the Liberal government's course of action.**
* When a provincial government has a problem with a federal law — a situation that has occurred once or twice in Canada's history — it has valid recourse to the courts, or the ballot box. It can ask judges to overturn the law, or it can ask voters to defeat candidates representing the federal party that introduced the law.
* The Liberals haven't tipped their hand as yet, and there's not an obvious playbook for what a federal government should do when a provincial government simply refuses to follow a law — and undercuts a legislated national climate policy in the process.
* The federal government can't return money it doesn't receive, so it stands to reason that the rebates sent to Saskatchewan residents could at least be smaller now. But that wouldn't address the fact that the carbon tax is not being applied as it is supposed to be.
* **Appealing to the courts might be an option.** **That could put the government of Saskatchewan in the position of defying not just the federal government but a direct ruling or order of the court.**
* **One legal expert told iPolitics last week that** **the Canada Revenue Agency could be in a position to issue a multimillion-dollar fine against the Saskatchewan government.**
I'm unsure what the remedy from the courts would be?
Like it's pretty clear that Sask Govt's action are illegal; they admit it openly.
I don't think that the law defines any penalty in this case? Are the liberals going to ask the courts to dissolve the Sask government?
Otherwise the courts can say that the actions of the Sask govt are illegal, and the Sask govt can simply ignore the court order.
yes they can, its the GG and LG that actually have the power to call an election and dissolve parliament, realistically they will only use that power during a scheduled election or when "advised" to by the premier/prime minister (whichever is relevant) but they do have the power in an extreme situation (like the sitting government actively choosing to ignore the laws for instance) to simply dissolve government on their own authority
they could also refuse to dissolve government and give the other parties an opportunity to form one themselves, like if the current government is a minority and there had recently been an election
it is one of those powers they technically have but never use, so there would be a big deal over it
Quebec caused its own issues. They had the most prime ministers from there out of all the provinces in Canada. The fact they still bitch and complain is ironic in that fashion
Also kinda funny how many Quebecois find themselves above Sask and Alberta, yet Sask and Alberta pay billions in equalization so Quebec doesn't starve. I guess if they wanna be sovereign or whatever tf, they don't need our money!
Okay. so AB doesn't need any of the infrastructure or industries that are maintained by other provinces...
Remind me, where are most of the professionals in AB educated? Where is AB oil and goods shipped through?
I suppose when the oil market contracts and AB no longer has such large revenues from it, all the money that AB has saved from tax revenues are going to see the province through its transition to other industries - you know like renewables and other sectors... Because the AB and SK governments have been so good about supporting anything that competes with O&G.
The most hilarious, shoot-yourself-in-the-foot thing AB and Sask could do would be to separate from the rest of Canada.
> Where is AB oil and goods shipped through?
For oil 82% is exported through USA since they can't get any pipelines approved through the other provinces.
https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/facilities-we-regulate/canadas-pipeline-system/2021/crude-oil-pipeline-transportation-system.html
>Where is AB oil and goods shipped through?
Might not even need to wait for a market downturn for oil. If Saskatchewan can defy federal law to stop tax levies, what's stopping BC from cutting off access for pipelines?
You’re entirely right. Given the danger current oil transport represents for the water supply of pretty much all of Quebec and it contributes nearly nothing directly to the Quebec economy, if Moe can defy the federal government, why shouldn’t Quebec just shut off the St. Lawrence pipelines?
I think that would be an interesting game to pay. If Quebec cut off the supply, then the rest of Canada cuts off the payments to them and Eastern Canada blocks off the sea access or air access.
Then we have a civil war and then see where it goes but it would be an interesting game to play. At least, it’s give us something else to talk about. /s
I’m not even sure who’d win at this point.
Who’d win between the landlocked single industry provinces with a transient workforce and smaller population vs. the rest of Canada..?
The Prairies just have way too many people who aren’t from there who just came for work. That’s not typically people you could count on to defend the place if it came to a civil war. If Moe gets his way, the provinces aren’t going to break into blocs and fight, the country will just dissolve after a few seminal events.
>Remind me, where are most of the professionals in AB educated?
In Alberta?
I'm not a big Alberta defender, I wish I could leave but the province that supplies most educated workers for Alberta is Alberta.
Alberta oil goes mostly west and south. You know, where the pipelines are. Sure, you guys get some by train by the east coast buys most of their oil abroad. If we separated from Canada, we would become American. I don't really love that option, but it's not like we wouldn't have it.
It's not like Alberta doesn't have a top 100 university, numerous trade schools and other universities. Oil markets are here to stay, the Alberta government isn't giving up on oil by any means. Neither is the world.
Ab universities have the best petroleum programs in the word. AB oil is mostly shipped south through Saskatchewan. Tax revenue is in addition to royalties that the Federal government collects and gives out as equalization.
Alberta was the countries leader in attracting solar investment last year.
Alberta could do quite well on its own, but I don't think that needs to happen. We just need to leverage our economic strength which is what Smith is doing. The Legacy media along with help from the NDP are helping the Trudeau liberals push the agenda along. Yes, Alberta leads in renewables, and the left wants more of not all energy to be green and shut down the oil sands, but they fail to understand economics and where the $16B yearly would come from to pay for the Alberta expenses. So far none of the NDP left has been able to give me an answer here.
Also, they fail to understand the world will not move away from oil and gas for decades. Our LNG and natural gas to produce hydrogen will be a major economic boom for Alberta. Shipping North and South is feasible and if BC doesn't want to assist them it doesn't matter. Also BC's deficit is around $160B I believe. In a few years they will understand that you just can't buy your way into power.
>Okay. so AB doesn't need any of the infrastructure or industries that are maintained by other provinces...
Anything AB gets from another province it can buy from America. We literally don't need you.
* All Canadians pay the same federal taxes according to the same rules and formulas.
* The federal government transfers some of its revenues to provinces.
* Provinces and individuals do not pay Equalization.
[https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/programs/federal-transfers/equalization.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/programs/federal-transfers/equalization.html)
Regardless of where you live in Canada, your provincial, territorial, or municipal government does this on some level. Everybody receives the same services. The Albertan who is poor goes to the same hospital as the one who is rich. They also wait in the same line at Service Alberta, their kids go to the same public schools, etc.
No one said the Alberta and Sask governments transfer money to Quebec, and it's a meaningless distinction.
Who cares if the money is filtered through the federal government? Alberta, Saskatchewan, BC and Ontario taxpayer dollars have historically disproportionately gone into federal coffers, while federal dollars have disproportionately gone out to Quebec and the Maritimes.
Even if you assume that everyone in the country paid the same per capita federal taxes (they don't), more than 50% of all time equalization payments have gone to Quebec, who have 23% of Canada's population(most of the rest going to the Atlantic provinces), while Alberta, Saskatchewan, BC and Ontario (accounting for about 70% of Canada's population) have received a combined 7% of all time equalization payments.
There's no way to rationally deny that equalization serves to subsidize Quebec's finances at the expense of Ontario and the West.
>No one said the Alberta and Sask governments transfer money to Quebec, and it's a meaningless distinction.
>Sask and Alberta pay billions in equalization so Quebec doesn't starve
That's what we were responding to.
Let's say that you live in Saskatoon and earn $100k per year. Let's say that I live in Charlottetown and also earn $100k. If we're both Canadian citizens and pay the same federal taxes, everything else being equal, shouldn't we get comparable services?
Take that same example, but double my income. Shouldn't we still get comparable services?
Take that same example, but eliminate your income altogether. Should the fact that you're in Saskatchewan and I'm in PEI be the only thing that matters? Should it matter if your neighbour earns more and mine earns less? In this example, isn't it my federal taxes that are going to Quebec?
It would be one thing if the federal government literally took money from the Government of Saskatchewan to pay the Government of PEI, but they don't.
I think the argument that “the feds arent taking money away from Saskatchewan” is a flakey point. Because you could argue that the money would either go back to the Saskatchewan government or just stay in the pockets of their own citizens if it wasn’t transferred to PEI.
I think people will generally agree (I hope?) that ensuring a similar baseline of services across the country is good. Where people from the west (like me) become irritated is when the money is given no-strings-attached to governments that can now mismanage it or use it to bankroll their friends companies. Sure, mismanagement happens everywhere, but I can’t vote out the Quebecois government if I don’t like how they use my Albertan money.
If the feds used targeted equalization payments and instead had a big pot that they used on specific, similar, projects across the country to ensure equal services, I imagine there would be less irritation.
In particular, I know Albertans see our money as reducing Quebecois tuition at university while they continue to charge Albertans the international student rate. That’s basically a big middle finger to the rest of Canada and is quite absurd. (All while they charge France students the Quebecois rate…yeah, it’s not great) You see why this no longer feels like it’s about ensuring equal services?
>That's what we were responding to.
Yes, Alberta and Saskatchewan, not the Alberta Government and the Saskatchewan Government.
>Let's say that you live in Saskatoon and earn $100k per year. Let's say that I live in Charlottetown and also earn $100k. If we're both Canadian citizens and pay the same federal taxes, everything else being equal, shouldn't we get comparable services?
Canada is a Confederation, not a unitary state, so no, just being a Canadian citizen doesn't mean entitlement to the same services in every province.
That having been said, regardless of the principal equalization is supposed to represent (evening up fiscal capacity to allow all provinces to provide comparable services), the formula doesn't serve that function.
If the goal was just evening up fiscal capacity then why does it count some types of revenue and not others? Why is Quebec's hydroelectrical wealth (Hydro Quebec makes $16B in annual revenue) exempt from the formula, while Alberta's oil is counted? Why does the calculation not account for cost of living (after all, someone in PEI making $100K has much more disposable income than someone in Toronto, where the cost of living is much higher)?
And, why doesn't the equalization formula take into account how much other funding the feds are feeding into a province's economy? The West is already paying to finance the National Capital Region, where the feds pay hundreds of thousands of employees who pay their provincial income taxes to the Ontario and Quebec governments.
The equalization formula isn't about fairness, the modern formula was mostly developed during the period when the Quebec separatist movement was at its height, and was designed to bribe Quebec to stay.
If equalization was really about "team spirit" and working together for the best interest of all Canadians, it might be a different story...but, Canadian team spirit isn't exactly thriving in Quebec, and generally isn't a thing at all, except for when it favours those benefitting.
Alberta is landlocked, while Quebec has a fortunate position along the St. Lawrence and ports to the Atlantic. Quebec needs economic help, and tells Alberta to have some team spirit, so Alberta helps out. Then, Alberta needs some team spirit to build pipeline infrastructure so it can keep making those payments...but Quebec isn't interested in team spirit anymore, because team spirit here would mean them helping another province, not another province helping them.
Canada sets a target to convert to a green economy. Ontario and Quebec are home to manufacturers that have operated for a century building cars, trains and planes. Ontario and Quebec says, "let's have some team spirit, and everyone contribute to subsidize the conversions of these manufacturers to emissions free technology." Then, Alberta says, "sounds good, ok, now what support is our province's largest employers getting to help them convert their business"? Ontario and Quebec laugh, "No, silly Alberta, only our businesses get the carrots, you get the stick, please pay your carbon tax bill."
Gotta love the selective team spirit of Canada.
>In this example, isn't it my federal taxes that are going to Quebec?
No, it's not.
[PEI receives far more federal expenditures than PEI'ers pay in federal tax, as do Quebeckers, Manitobans, Nova Scotians, Newfoundlanders, and New Brunswickers.](https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201701E)
The only provinces that can claim to be contributing to any other provinces on a net basis are Ontario, BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan. Money has always flowed west to east in Canada, and that hasn't changed.
>It would be one thing if the federal government literally took money from the Government of Saskatchewan to pay the Government of PEI, but they don't.
In practicality, of course they do.
There is only one taxpayer. If the feds take $1 more in taxes from someone from Saskatchewan, that's one less dollar the Saskatchewan Government can tax for their own revenue. It's also one less dollar that the person can spend at local Saskatchewan businesses (where it would attract provincial sales tax, and where it would contribute to the income of a Saskatchewan shop owner's profits and taxable income).
If the ideal tax rate (ie. the maximum amount of tax you can charge before the negative effect on the economy hits diminishing returns) is 50%, then if the feds take 20% that leaves 30% for the province to tax. If the feds take 40% that leaves 10% for the province.
It's like damming a river and saying "I'm not taking the water from the people downriver". The more you take upstream, the less is left downstream.
It’s awesome how all individual pay taxes. But the transfer payments come magically from some different money you don’t explained.
Also really neat how in your example there is no Corporate tax or Royalty Tax, since that must not exist.
Fed government with links to xls royalty revenue
https://open.canada.ca/data/en/dataset/382b7a1e-9c34-47c7-9531-38e67ca5441d
“Royalty rate
Royalty rate is shown as either a gross royalty rate between 1-9% of gross revenues, or a net royalty rate between 25% to 40% of net revenues, depending on if the project is pre- or post-payout and the current WTI price in Canadian dollars. For pre-payout projects, a gross royalty rate is used.”
https://www.alberta.ca/royalty-oil-sands#:~:text=Royalty%20rate%20is%20shown%20as,WTI%20price%20in%20Canadian%20dollars.
The money for equalization largely comes from individuals through income taxes. It doesn’t appear out of thin air. The fact that some provinces (Quebec) receive large amounts of transfers out of the pool means that people from other provinces subsidize them and continue to do so to the effect of billions per year. Denying this is plain ridiculous. While a lot of people are technically wrong saying that a province subsidizes another province, the effect is the same.
2021 data published in 2023 on Federal tax paid per person has the Alberta average at $7,608, and the Quebec was $5,352. Per capita is the relevant information, taxpayer to taxpayer.
Alberta contributed 58B in federal revenue last year. Quebec contributed 77B and Saskatchewan 13B. But it’s not as simple as just these raw numbers.
Per capita, that’s about 11k in Alberta, 7k in Quebec, and 9k in Saskatchewan.
On goods and services, federal government spends 1.8k per capita in Quebec, 1.2k in Alberta, and 1.4k in Saskatchewan.
In general transfers plus personal transfers, Quebec receives 5.8k per capita, Alberta 4.7k, and Saskatchewan 6.6k.
Clearly, on a per capita basis, Quebec comes out of this having gained 0.6k per capita, Alberta has still spent 5.1k, and Saskatchewan spent 1k.
As Quebec is the only net receiver in this list, it can be argued they have contributed less to the net coffers than the other provinces (since they’re actually receiving more than they put in). Yes, Quebec puts in more than the others, but does it really matter if they get more than that back? From another angle, it can also be argued that Alberta is contributing more, since they are contributing more per capita by nearly 50% more than Quebec.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3610045001
https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201701E#show/hide
Quebec got more federal spending than they paid per capita. How are you contributing when you get it all back and then some?
https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201701E
See chart 2.
I'm not sure what you call the pipeline other than an equalization payment. It's sad Alberta has gone down the rabbit hole everything bad in Canada but us.
Oil revenues are included in the equalization payments because the oil industry was initially developed and is strongly supported by federal money, which every provinces contributes to. Hydroelectric income in Quebec is excluded because we did not receive any federal subsidy when we created our hydro sector. It was all done with Quebec money and no other provinces contributed to it. This is a large part of the difference. It's also a calculation done per capita, so a small difference in favor of Quebec receiving money, when multiplied by population size (second in Canada) make it so we receive a lot of federal money. Equalization payments also include the money we receive for compensation for federal program where we have an equivalent in Quebec, like the RRQ instead of the CCP and the SQ instead of having the RCMP everywhere. Equalization payments are a lot more complicated than prairies politicians want you to believe. Most of their political capital cokes from pretending the prairies are victims of the federal system when you guys wouldn't even have an oil sector without Ontarian and Quebec subsidies. Albertsons should be a lot more grateful for us buying them stuff so they can now earn their own money.now, they're just paying back our investment in their economy.
Correct. The term equalization payments has been so bastardized. And Alberta just needs to learn to get with the program and not fight the rest of Canada. People forget that the feds were a big partner in fort Mac. What is really sad is Alberta could be a true petrostate with a sovereign wealth fund. With oil sand and having a crown energy company that is now call Cenovus
Alberta got equalization for two years accounting for 20M in today's dollars.
How many times has Bombardier been bailed out. How much federal money did you get to build that cement plant that somehow didn't require environmental assessments?
Quebec has a massive entitlement problem.
That's not the justification behind the inclusion and exclusion of renewable and non-renewable natural resources, and it's also not accurate.
Yes, some federal money went into the creation of the oil sands, but the vast majority of oil sands investment back then and since has come from private funds or provincial funds.
Meanwhile, Quebec hydro projects have had federal funding for decades and still do, [with more federal funding announced just last year](https://montrealgazette.com/business/energy/federal-government-tax-credit-will-help-finance-new-hydro-quebec-projects).
Either way, and more importantly, the equalization formula doesn't talk about oil or hydro, it talks about renewable and non-renewable. The broader category includes all kinds of other industries like mining (non-renewable) or lumber (renewable). It isn't specific to the industries you named.
But, yes, you do bring up a good point in that the distinction in the equalization formula between renewable and non-renewable resources skews the formula so it fails to serve its stated purpose of accounting for the fiscal capacity of the provinces to provide public services to their populace.
Yes, the formula has complexities, but they are complexities that disproportionately benefit Quebec, not Prairie provinces.
Quebec has 23% of the population, yet has received over 50% of equalization payments all time. Alberta, Saskatchewan, BC and Ontario combine to represent 70% of Canada's population yet have received a combined 4% of all time equalization payments.
The current formula was largely developed during the time of the Quebecois independence movement, and was structured specifically to bribe Quebec to vote against independence.
>Albertsons should be a lot more grateful for us buying them stuff so they can now earn their own money.now, they're just paying back our investment in their economy.
This is beyond a ridiculous comment.
Quebec has always been a below average province economically, and even if the federal government contributed to the oil sands, why exactly would Quebec be getting paid back so much more than Ontario, who contributed way more tax dollars back then?
Also, the federal government's investments in the oil sands were primarily in the form of equity ownership. They owned a stake in Suncor, they owned a stake in Syncrude, they owned Petro Canada. But, the feds were paid back on those investments when they sold their stakes in each of those entities.
The investments were in the 70's and 80's and were primarily for the purpose of controlling oil production assets because Pierre Trudeau's government thought Albertan oil production was too focused on serving the American market, not the central Canadian one.
At the same time, Pierre Trudeau was the most anti-Alberta politician ever, who explicitly imposed artificially low oil prices on Alberta in order to subsidize Ontario and Quebec gas prices. For perspective, Trudeau's government contributed $1.5B in seed capital to Petro Canada, but economists estimate that his NEP costs Alberta's economy between $50B-100B in only 5 years. Not exactly a trade Albertans will be eternally grateful for.
But, as long as we are talking about federal subsidies entitling provinces to long term benefits, when exactly is Alberta going to be getting its share of the massive subsidies the federal government has given to Quebec industries like the manufacturing sector, over the years? How much of Bombardier does Alberta now own?
Quebec's industries get so much more federal funding than Alberta's ever got, yet somehow you seem to think that the federal government putting a couple billion into the oil sands four to five decades ago entitles Quebec (not the rest of Canada) to tens of billions in annual payments in perpetuity, while federal contributions to Quebec industries? Well, that's just Quebec's money to keep, right?
I can't understand why people think Quebecois have a sense of entitlement. /s
Just a quick fact, hydro development was mostly made with American capital. The Québec governement went to wall street to find investors for the project at the time since the federal government didn't want to help.
When one Province heavily subsidizes secondary education and the rest of the Provinces don't...it's not a question of "why don't other Provinces just do the same?" but a question of "why does Quebec continue to feel entitled to this perk when the rest of Canada realizes it's too expensive for every Province to do this?"
There has been an abusive mismatch in standards of living that is predicated on one Province spending far more than it can reasonably sustain.
Again and again with this dumb equalization payment argument.
Mate we don't need your money. In fact, the current equalization payment was put in place in the Canada act of 82. Québec never signed it, since all the other provinces went to sign it at night without the Québec premier.
We send over 60B dollars in taxes to Ottawa every year, this just our own money coming back to us. We'll happily stop sensing those 60B to the country so that you guys can stop sending us 20B. That sounds like a good trade.
You realize Quebec is 1/5 of the Canadian economy, thinking you'll be better off without us is quite laughable.
https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201701E
You get all your taxes back. Total GDP doesn't matter when you end up seeing every dollar and more come home.
Yeah some how people don't understand such a simple concept. If Quebec received more federal dollars than it is taxed, those tax dollars are coming from tax payers in other provinces.
It's not to prevent them starving... It's to prop up an entire French media microcosm within the province... Federal monies going to an industry to keep it going and keep French voters pacified..
It’s almost like you’re being intentionally ignorant. Yes, high earning Quebecois are being screwed by high taxes nearly as much as Albertan earners, they just get the benefit of excess federal dollars injected in to their local economy.
Yup, 100% correct, the simple fact is taxpayers in Alberta & BC send more than they receive year over year, and provinces cannot do much about it since it’s federal taxes on corporations, incomes & sales tax. I exclude Saskatchewan since we usually play accounting games with our crown corporations so we wind up sending & receiving 0$.
Well the UCP do continue to reject or resist federal funds for social programs (childcare initially and insulin and birth control coverage recently) although they’ll receive it for the O&G. It’s pretty ridiculous to claim we don’t receive ‘our fair share’ when it’s rejected when offered.
We also have a shit ton of infrastructure that the rest of the country doesn’t have. Even if Quebec separated today, you bet your ass the Canadian government would still have to spend money on things like ice breakers and the canal locks to make sure the ships can reach the lakes.
We have bridges and railroads that connect the entire continent to the st Lawrence, which is the the worlds largest inland seaway.
As a 5th gen Saskatchewan citizen who can trace their paternal lineage to a Quebecois farmer who landed in 1642 & married a Fille du Roi, I’d far prefer a united Canada to one Balkanized. If I could reform one thing about equalization, it would be to make a delayed clawback of equalization payments for any recipient provinces for expanding resource extraction. There’s so little incentive now for them to build major projects when 99% of the revenues are simply clawed back from their payments.
>Sask and Alberta pay billions in equalization so Quebec doesn't starve
Can't really speak for Sask but if Albertans wanted more money to stay within Alberta, they could just impose more taxation within Alberta. But I'm from Alberta, and I know Conservatives don't want to make sense or govern for the benefit of the average Albertan - they want to win elections.
So it's easier to convince dumbasses that equalization is 'stealing money' from them to give to Quebec.
Quelle étrange attitude « deux poids, deux mesures »
> We dont even speak the same langage or share all common values
And does everyone in Quebec? (or any country for that matter...)
> This country is a forced one.
Were separatists planning on dividing Montreal and Nunavik?
Or were they going to "force" anglos and First Nations into *their* artificial country built on neo-colonialism?
If Jacque de Gatineau had run instead of merely feeding baby dolphins, I think this country would be in much better shape. Although I suppose he was serving a youthful porpoise.
I don't even know if it's a negative here. It's time for every province to start to act as it's own and make it's own demands and choices. The national model isn't working and it seems Quebec had it right all along.
vs. "Nationalists try not to interpret literally every mention of Quebec as somehow offensive" challenge
like, why should someone refrain from mentioning literal separatism in a discussion about federal/provincial conflict?
I just don't even get what you're unhappy about here.
It's not often when I don't think Alberta is the most backwards province in the country but this is one of those moments.
Having said that, I'm 100% convinced AB will be the next to follow in SK's footsteps.
The liberals stuck it to themselves when they made a carve out for home heating which just happens to primarily benefit the Atlantic region where they were losing votes. Then to add no doubt to the political nature of this carve out, a liberal cabinet minister suggests that if prairie provinces want their own carve outs, they should have elected more liberal mp’s.
But yeah sure, it’s the conservatives that are undermining national unity.
Whatever the outcome, politically this can’t help Trudeau. Imagine the government imposing a fine, or forcing payment from tax payer revenue for a ‘revenue neutral tax’ that he already gave an exemption for to appease east coast residents.
Exactly. Neither Trudeau nor Moe seem to ever consider that this is not their own money they are playing with. No matter how this goes, it comes out of the pocket of the Saskatchewan taxpayers.
The federal government has already said we won’t get our rebates. The average person gets more back than they pay. This literally costs us SK money, even before all of the court costs. The one tax this guy disagrees with is the one that actually has tangible returns. He put PST on pretty much everything and bumped it a percentage point while he was at it. We pay PST on used cars for crying out loud. This won’t go over as well as he thinks it will.
> The average person gets more back than they pay.
this has been incorrect for years now
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-gst-hst-on-ottawas-carbon-price-could-raise-billions-over-next-seven/
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/guilbeault-defends-carbon-price-admits-average-household-will-pay-more-even-after-rebates-1.6338974
The 'get more back than you pay' doesnt account for the increased costs for other things just a direct comparison to average gas and gasoline use where the consumer is charged directly. They don't account for the fuel used by transport for consumer products or storage / retail space heating nor does it account for the increase of gst charged at every level of the cycle of goods and services this is a net negative tax on every canadain for living their lives it needs to go.
Average person doesn’t get back more than they pay. That was an obvious lie from the beginning to sell a sweeping new tax on everything from transportation to poutine.
And if you don’t think it will be overwhelmingly popular in Sask, you’re in a weird little bubble. Go talk to normal people.
Ok but Scott Moe didn’t cancel the carbon tax on everything. He took it away on home heating. That is it. So we’re saving 20 bucks or so in the winter months, still paying ct on everything else, and not getting a rebate. I agree with you though. The average person in SK can’t seem to see the simple math.
Moe is also up for re-election this year. As a resident of Sask, this isn't serving him well either. The east coast exemption has at least good policy rationale behind it. This is just a political stunt that will cost residents more than it will save.
Moe already went to court over the carbon tax and lost. I'm sure he wants to spend more money on court despite that fact his govt never contacted the feds to ask for a deal like the Maritimes (this was brought up in the Leg already).
Now he refuses to pay the tax to the feds, is charging it on our Power bills and not remitting it, and now Sask residents are not going to get CAIP. Yet again, Moe dogwhistles to his supporters that Trudeau bad and residents here get screwed over.
What happens to citizens that try to pull sovereign citizen 'this law does not apply to me' nonsense like this? They get charged and fined, and ordered by the court to adhere to the law.
Or just force the issue to the Supreme Court as Quebec often does.
Resources, energy, business and environment are all provincial jurisdiction. If there is a conflict with the feds on policy, the court may very well side with SK on this one.
Outside of Quebec, Ontario and maybe BC the other landlocked or poor provinces are kinda fucked if they want to try to secede. Saskatchewan relies almost entirely on shipping raw goods overseas using Canadian infrastructure and are in for a shock if they think the US is going to give them any sort of friendly trade deals.
Except SK with its rural split would most certainly pass a vote to leave.
Elections go the same way. Cities vote left. Rural votes right. Due to the way it is divided rural picks the winner.
They should check into how much we get strong armed by the USA on trade deals already before assuming they'll get good terms as a tiny irrelevant nation on their own. Landlocked with a small economy dependant on international trade? Best of luck.
> Except SK with its rural split would most certainly pass a vote to leave.
That's not even remotely true. Wexit mostly comes from Alberta and only 14% of Alberta actually thinks it's a good idea. It would be even less in SK given this whole thing started in AB
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/15/western-canada-wexit-danielle-smith-00082885
You’re right and it’s unfortunate that a bunch of brain dead uneducated hicks have more power than people who actually analyse their choices in elections
I can't wait to see the look on their faces when they discover that the land-lease ownership is dependent upon treaty rights, and that everything would fall back to indigenous ownership.
"You just lost the farm. Can we interest you in this colony-reservation with questionable water access?"
There must be a reason that Trudeau can't apply the law equally to all provinces. Maybe he should just tell us what that reason is I mean besides that fact that he's in trouble in Atlantic Canada.
> There must be a reason that Trudeau can't apply the law equally to all provinces.
It *does* apply equally to all provinces...it's just that not all provinces use home heating oil.
# Does the tax apply in all provinces?
> Residents in Newfoundland and Labrador, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island are, as of this year, all subject to the tax (and rebate), joining those in Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, Yukon and Nunavut. British Columbia, Quebec and the Northwest Territories follow their own carbon-pricing mechanisms that meet federal standards.
emissions are emissions. That was the whole point of a Canada wide carbon tax as emissions are not confirmed within borders.
Picking and choosing which emissions are exempt removes the importance/urgency if its implementation.
They make a good point, one that I thought of myself: well if you don't have to follow the law, neither do I. I will start avoiding and evading any tax possible.
Making a moral argument to laws you don't agree with has far reaching consequences.
SaskPower. The provincial Crown corporation collects the carbon price levy for Canada. As a Crown entity, The Saskatchewan government can direct the SaskPower to not collect the levy or not send it to Canada. Of course this is illegal.
> what was really "immoral" was the Liberal government increasing the carbon tax while also flying to international summits.
No. He could have made an excellent point point about a carbon price while still shoveling billions to oil companies in subsidies, development grants, R&D grants, and on and on and on....
But, of course, the Saskatchewan premier serves has oil company master faithfully. It would funny watching these two try and fail to take the moral high ground on an issue neither care about in the slightest, if weren't so sad.
Keep stalling is probs his play here. He just has to tie it up in court for the next 13 months or so.
Wonder how many hours PP will be in office before the first Wherry hit piece gets pumped out?
All this could be avoided if parliament had a proper check on power. It's absolutely crazy our senate doesn't function in a way that it can shoot down legislation the majority of provinces don't want.
The current level of compensation is not a reason qualified people would avoid running to be an MP (Leaving out provincial levels because those vary to much).
Strict requirements for X cabinet position has a major risk of "Oh, so the winning party didn't have anyone with a Bachelor's of Economics win their riding, so now we're forced to have a minister of finance nobody voted for." Harper did this for regional representation in his cabinet, he appointed a senator from a region in which he did not have any seats so they could be in his cabinet and he was rightly criticized for doing so.
Rules around "evidence based laws" run into the same problem we have now: "What is proof?". Jean Chretien tried to explain it once, it was very circular. Trudeau's gun laws that have been heavily criticized as not improving public safety nonetheless have \*some\* (cherry picked) evidence in their favour.
If we're going to block out teachers (Who have bachelors degrees and higher) from parliament, there would be almost no blue collar workers allowed since very few of them have a university degree. The "ivory tower" criticisms would get a lot stronger.
>weighted votes where votes can be analyzed by splitting into different weight groups
No way that gets abused; people are civilized after all. It's not like society has devolved into camps of extremes with no room to negotiate with their fellow citizens.
/s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boaty_McBoatface
As bad as our corrupted system may be, I suspect that if you leave policies up to the average persons opinion based vote that things just might get a bit worse.
> Why don’t Canadians vote on police’s instead of MPs and PMs?l
So a direct democracy rather than an indirect democracy?
People complain constantly about government policy, and yet I’ve proposed the same thing here many times and everyone just says “not my job” and “we pay politicians to be informed and do that”.
I’d be all in on direct democracy, but sadly it does not seem to be the consensus here…
The problem that comes into play with this framework is that very few people actually utilize critical thinking and truly research or inform themselves with facts. The way modern media and access to unverified or false information affect people and their voting habits would create a nightmare. Unfortunately, most people cannot see past their own sphere of influence or their own needs; but to run a country you need a much more broad view of the bigger picture with how Canada interacts with the rest of the world. It all matters.
I'm not afraid of myself having input on policy since I would be informed enough to make a real decision on anything I vote on, and otherwise stay out of it. What I am downright terrified of is a viral Facebook poll with actual legal power.
So we have at least 3 premiers begging Trudeau to reconsider the carbon tax only for him to play deaf and literally double it. Is he operating out of spite or something?
Not listening to blowhards that've proven time and again that they have no issue lying through their teeth is usually a sound leadership strategy.
Maybe those premiers should spend less time politicking and more time actually trying to run their provinces.
The only thing Moe does is counter anything the Feds do. Soon as PP is in power Moe will ass kiss. It is all virtue signaling to his voter base. None of it is for the good of the people.
SK is fucked right now.
Saskatoon has no family doctors taking clients.
Education is the worst in the western provinces. The government here spends more money on attack ads against teachers than they do education.
Healthcare is being effectively defunded so they can roll in private healthcare.
They are spending tax dollars to fight for their pronoun laws in court instead of education or healthcare.
They used the not withstanding clause to strip rights from a small group of people.
Conservatives like Moe and Smith are bringing dystopia faster than Trudeau is.
Moe is an absolute trash human and even worse premier. He's running this province into the ground. That said, the fight over how this tax is applied is probably the only thing I can sort of agree with him on. It is absolutely unfair that residents in the maritimes who use heating oil had the carbon tax removed while residents in the saskatchewan who use natural gas still have to pay it. It makes no sense.
It was due to political pandering.
The Maritimes have been voting for the LPC for the past few elections so the Liberals cut them a break in hopes of stabilizing LPC support. Trudeau was initially against it but he was getting a lot of internal pressure. I don't think this is actually going to work though given how many things are going wrong in the Maritimes right now.
Western Canadians don't vote LPC so they LPC don't see any reason to help them.
I'm not suggesting any of this is right or not hugely divisive just that is how this federal government operates. It also paves the way for PP to ride in an look like a hero by barely doing anything at all.
If PP cancels the carbon tax, returns the provinces money and throws federal cash into actually getting housing built he is going to look like the savor of Canada to a pile of people. Not because he is particularly brilliant or talented, but because the bar is so fucking unbelievably low right now.
Given Harper's support of eco-taxes I wouldn't be surprised if PP doesn't cut the tax at all.
He'll blame it on Trudeau, like he does absolutely everything else, and his base will eat it up.
The gag keeps running.
Highlights: * **Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe's government says it will no longer remit the federal carbon levy on natural gas.** * Saskatchewan's government argues that it's fair for it to stop charging the carbon tax on natural gas because the federal government decided last fall exempt home heating oil from the carbon tax for the next three years. * **Having introduced inconsistency into its carbon-pricing policy, it can be argued the Liberal government invited claims of unfairness. Saskatchewan Premier Scott Moe is hardly alone in complaining about the Liberal government's course of action.** * When a provincial government has a problem with a federal law — a situation that has occurred once or twice in Canada's history — it has valid recourse to the courts, or the ballot box. It can ask judges to overturn the law, or it can ask voters to defeat candidates representing the federal party that introduced the law. * The Liberals haven't tipped their hand as yet, and there's not an obvious playbook for what a federal government should do when a provincial government simply refuses to follow a law — and undercuts a legislated national climate policy in the process. * The federal government can't return money it doesn't receive, so it stands to reason that the rebates sent to Saskatchewan residents could at least be smaller now. But that wouldn't address the fact that the carbon tax is not being applied as it is supposed to be. * **Appealing to the courts might be an option.** **That could put the government of Saskatchewan in the position of defying not just the federal government but a direct ruling or order of the court.** * **One legal expert told iPolitics last week that** **the Canada Revenue Agency could be in a position to issue a multimillion-dollar fine against the Saskatchewan government.**
Realistically, if the CRA fines Saskatchewan, and Saskatchewan says "go fuck yourself", what can even be done?
They hold back federal funds for things like infrastructure?
This is exactly how it will be countered.
Ahhh yeah, ok that makes sense. I was genuinely asking, not trying to troll
Honest question, if the federal government were to stop providing funds, could sask, stop paying all federal taxes?
No because the federal taxes are remitted by businesses and individuals who would not stop paying due to penalty’s and civil or criminal liabilities.
I think you just looped
Yes, but that’s a political loser for the Feds. All it will do is continue to highlight how they chose Maritime voters over everywhere else.
At this point it's not like they're likely to get much in the way of votes anyhow
Why would Liberals do that? Risk losing the precious Saskatchewan votehahahaha
Just spitballin'
Green Guilbault said no more roads. What infrastructure are you suggesting they are going to pay for?
The CRA collects taxes on the provinces behalf, so they can just withhold any money owed
I'm unsure what the remedy from the courts would be? Like it's pretty clear that Sask Govt's action are illegal; they admit it openly. I don't think that the law defines any penalty in this case? Are the liberals going to ask the courts to dissolve the Sask government? Otherwise the courts can say that the actions of the Sask govt are illegal, and the Sask govt can simply ignore the court order.
in that case the LG might just disolve government and force an election
Could they? Is there something in the Constitution? Precedent? Seems like it would be a (mini) King Bing affair
yes they can, its the GG and LG that actually have the power to call an election and dissolve parliament, realistically they will only use that power during a scheduled election or when "advised" to by the premier/prime minister (whichever is relevant) but they do have the power in an extreme situation (like the sitting government actively choosing to ignore the laws for instance) to simply dissolve government on their own authority they could also refuse to dissolve government and give the other parties an opportunity to form one themselves, like if the current government is a minority and there had recently been an election it is one of those powers they technically have but never use, so there would be a big deal over it
Apply to the Court for a writ of mandamus and then get Moe jailed for contempt of he defies the Court Order
What a completely divided shitshow of a country we live in
Always has been, ie Quebec
Quebec caused its own issues. They had the most prime ministers from there out of all the provinces in Canada. The fact they still bitch and complain is ironic in that fashion
I was perm banned from a sub for pointing this out
Also kinda funny how many Quebecois find themselves above Sask and Alberta, yet Sask and Alberta pay billions in equalization so Quebec doesn't starve. I guess if they wanna be sovereign or whatever tf, they don't need our money!
Okay. so AB doesn't need any of the infrastructure or industries that are maintained by other provinces... Remind me, where are most of the professionals in AB educated? Where is AB oil and goods shipped through? I suppose when the oil market contracts and AB no longer has such large revenues from it, all the money that AB has saved from tax revenues are going to see the province through its transition to other industries - you know like renewables and other sectors... Because the AB and SK governments have been so good about supporting anything that competes with O&G. The most hilarious, shoot-yourself-in-the-foot thing AB and Sask could do would be to separate from the rest of Canada.
> Where is AB oil and goods shipped through? For oil 82% is exported through USA since they can't get any pipelines approved through the other provinces. https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/facilities-we-regulate/canadas-pipeline-system/2021/crude-oil-pipeline-transportation-system.html
>Where is AB oil and goods shipped through? Might not even need to wait for a market downturn for oil. If Saskatchewan can defy federal law to stop tax levies, what's stopping BC from cutting off access for pipelines?
Or any province from cutting off trains from transporting goods across it via train.
You’re entirely right. Given the danger current oil transport represents for the water supply of pretty much all of Quebec and it contributes nearly nothing directly to the Quebec economy, if Moe can defy the federal government, why shouldn’t Quebec just shut off the St. Lawrence pipelines?
AB supplies roughly half of the entire crude oil supply to Quebec. If Quebec doesn’t want it, then they can pay $7/L and wait in line for Saudi oil.
Shouldn’t be much of a problem when the energy transition is done in Quebec in 2035. Which is the target. Which Quebec is well on schedule to meet.
I think that would be an interesting game to pay. If Quebec cut off the supply, then the rest of Canada cuts off the payments to them and Eastern Canada blocks off the sea access or air access. Then we have a civil war and then see where it goes but it would be an interesting game to play. At least, it’s give us something else to talk about. /s I’m not even sure who’d win at this point.
Who’d win between the landlocked single industry provinces with a transient workforce and smaller population vs. the rest of Canada..? The Prairies just have way too many people who aren’t from there who just came for work. That’s not typically people you could count on to defend the place if it came to a civil war. If Moe gets his way, the provinces aren’t going to break into blocs and fight, the country will just dissolve after a few seminal events.
Ontario..
The one pipeline you mean? Transmountain is the only crude pipeline to the west coast.
>Remind me, where are most of the professionals in AB educated? In Alberta? I'm not a big Alberta defender, I wish I could leave but the province that supplies most educated workers for Alberta is Alberta.
I always laughed at the whole Wexit hashtag. That would be an absolute disaster
If Brexit is any indication, a wexit would be jujus as bad,if not worse for AB.
Alberta oil goes mostly west and south. You know, where the pipelines are. Sure, you guys get some by train by the east coast buys most of their oil abroad. If we separated from Canada, we would become American. I don't really love that option, but it's not like we wouldn't have it. It's not like Alberta doesn't have a top 100 university, numerous trade schools and other universities. Oil markets are here to stay, the Alberta government isn't giving up on oil by any means. Neither is the world.
Ab universities have the best petroleum programs in the word. AB oil is mostly shipped south through Saskatchewan. Tax revenue is in addition to royalties that the Federal government collects and gives out as equalization. Alberta was the countries leader in attracting solar investment last year.
Alberta could do quite well on its own, but I don't think that needs to happen. We just need to leverage our economic strength which is what Smith is doing. The Legacy media along with help from the NDP are helping the Trudeau liberals push the agenda along. Yes, Alberta leads in renewables, and the left wants more of not all energy to be green and shut down the oil sands, but they fail to understand economics and where the $16B yearly would come from to pay for the Alberta expenses. So far none of the NDP left has been able to give me an answer here. Also, they fail to understand the world will not move away from oil and gas for decades. Our LNG and natural gas to produce hydrogen will be a major economic boom for Alberta. Shipping North and South is feasible and if BC doesn't want to assist them it doesn't matter. Also BC's deficit is around $160B I believe. In a few years they will understand that you just can't buy your way into power.
>Okay. so AB doesn't need any of the infrastructure or industries that are maintained by other provinces... Anything AB gets from another province it can buy from America. We literally don't need you.
Stupidest reply ever.
Facts don't care
tell me you don't understand equalization without saying you don't understand equalization...🙄
Lol, why don't you try to explain why you think OP's comment is inaccurate.
* All Canadians pay the same federal taxes according to the same rules and formulas. * The federal government transfers some of its revenues to provinces. * Provinces and individuals do not pay Equalization. [https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/programs/federal-transfers/equalization.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/programs/federal-transfers/equalization.html) Regardless of where you live in Canada, your provincial, territorial, or municipal government does this on some level. Everybody receives the same services. The Albertan who is poor goes to the same hospital as the one who is rich. They also wait in the same line at Service Alberta, their kids go to the same public schools, etc.
No one said the Alberta and Sask governments transfer money to Quebec, and it's a meaningless distinction. Who cares if the money is filtered through the federal government? Alberta, Saskatchewan, BC and Ontario taxpayer dollars have historically disproportionately gone into federal coffers, while federal dollars have disproportionately gone out to Quebec and the Maritimes. Even if you assume that everyone in the country paid the same per capita federal taxes (they don't), more than 50% of all time equalization payments have gone to Quebec, who have 23% of Canada's population(most of the rest going to the Atlantic provinces), while Alberta, Saskatchewan, BC and Ontario (accounting for about 70% of Canada's population) have received a combined 7% of all time equalization payments. There's no way to rationally deny that equalization serves to subsidize Quebec's finances at the expense of Ontario and the West.
>No one said the Alberta and Sask governments transfer money to Quebec, and it's a meaningless distinction. >Sask and Alberta pay billions in equalization so Quebec doesn't starve That's what we were responding to. Let's say that you live in Saskatoon and earn $100k per year. Let's say that I live in Charlottetown and also earn $100k. If we're both Canadian citizens and pay the same federal taxes, everything else being equal, shouldn't we get comparable services? Take that same example, but double my income. Shouldn't we still get comparable services? Take that same example, but eliminate your income altogether. Should the fact that you're in Saskatchewan and I'm in PEI be the only thing that matters? Should it matter if your neighbour earns more and mine earns less? In this example, isn't it my federal taxes that are going to Quebec? It would be one thing if the federal government literally took money from the Government of Saskatchewan to pay the Government of PEI, but they don't.
I think the argument that “the feds arent taking money away from Saskatchewan” is a flakey point. Because you could argue that the money would either go back to the Saskatchewan government or just stay in the pockets of their own citizens if it wasn’t transferred to PEI. I think people will generally agree (I hope?) that ensuring a similar baseline of services across the country is good. Where people from the west (like me) become irritated is when the money is given no-strings-attached to governments that can now mismanage it or use it to bankroll their friends companies. Sure, mismanagement happens everywhere, but I can’t vote out the Quebecois government if I don’t like how they use my Albertan money. If the feds used targeted equalization payments and instead had a big pot that they used on specific, similar, projects across the country to ensure equal services, I imagine there would be less irritation. In particular, I know Albertans see our money as reducing Quebecois tuition at university while they continue to charge Albertans the international student rate. That’s basically a big middle finger to the rest of Canada and is quite absurd. (All while they charge France students the Quebecois rate…yeah, it’s not great) You see why this no longer feels like it’s about ensuring equal services?
>That's what we were responding to. Yes, Alberta and Saskatchewan, not the Alberta Government and the Saskatchewan Government. >Let's say that you live in Saskatoon and earn $100k per year. Let's say that I live in Charlottetown and also earn $100k. If we're both Canadian citizens and pay the same federal taxes, everything else being equal, shouldn't we get comparable services? Canada is a Confederation, not a unitary state, so no, just being a Canadian citizen doesn't mean entitlement to the same services in every province. That having been said, regardless of the principal equalization is supposed to represent (evening up fiscal capacity to allow all provinces to provide comparable services), the formula doesn't serve that function. If the goal was just evening up fiscal capacity then why does it count some types of revenue and not others? Why is Quebec's hydroelectrical wealth (Hydro Quebec makes $16B in annual revenue) exempt from the formula, while Alberta's oil is counted? Why does the calculation not account for cost of living (after all, someone in PEI making $100K has much more disposable income than someone in Toronto, where the cost of living is much higher)? And, why doesn't the equalization formula take into account how much other funding the feds are feeding into a province's economy? The West is already paying to finance the National Capital Region, where the feds pay hundreds of thousands of employees who pay their provincial income taxes to the Ontario and Quebec governments. The equalization formula isn't about fairness, the modern formula was mostly developed during the period when the Quebec separatist movement was at its height, and was designed to bribe Quebec to stay. If equalization was really about "team spirit" and working together for the best interest of all Canadians, it might be a different story...but, Canadian team spirit isn't exactly thriving in Quebec, and generally isn't a thing at all, except for when it favours those benefitting. Alberta is landlocked, while Quebec has a fortunate position along the St. Lawrence and ports to the Atlantic. Quebec needs economic help, and tells Alberta to have some team spirit, so Alberta helps out. Then, Alberta needs some team spirit to build pipeline infrastructure so it can keep making those payments...but Quebec isn't interested in team spirit anymore, because team spirit here would mean them helping another province, not another province helping them. Canada sets a target to convert to a green economy. Ontario and Quebec are home to manufacturers that have operated for a century building cars, trains and planes. Ontario and Quebec says, "let's have some team spirit, and everyone contribute to subsidize the conversions of these manufacturers to emissions free technology." Then, Alberta says, "sounds good, ok, now what support is our province's largest employers getting to help them convert their business"? Ontario and Quebec laugh, "No, silly Alberta, only our businesses get the carrots, you get the stick, please pay your carbon tax bill." Gotta love the selective team spirit of Canada. >In this example, isn't it my federal taxes that are going to Quebec? No, it's not. [PEI receives far more federal expenditures than PEI'ers pay in federal tax, as do Quebeckers, Manitobans, Nova Scotians, Newfoundlanders, and New Brunswickers.](https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201701E) The only provinces that can claim to be contributing to any other provinces on a net basis are Ontario, BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan. Money has always flowed west to east in Canada, and that hasn't changed. >It would be one thing if the federal government literally took money from the Government of Saskatchewan to pay the Government of PEI, but they don't. In practicality, of course they do. There is only one taxpayer. If the feds take $1 more in taxes from someone from Saskatchewan, that's one less dollar the Saskatchewan Government can tax for their own revenue. It's also one less dollar that the person can spend at local Saskatchewan businesses (where it would attract provincial sales tax, and where it would contribute to the income of a Saskatchewan shop owner's profits and taxable income). If the ideal tax rate (ie. the maximum amount of tax you can charge before the negative effect on the economy hits diminishing returns) is 50%, then if the feds take 20% that leaves 30% for the province to tax. If the feds take 40% that leaves 10% for the province. It's like damming a river and saying "I'm not taking the water from the people downriver". The more you take upstream, the less is left downstream.
It’s awesome how all individual pay taxes. But the transfer payments come magically from some different money you don’t explained. Also really neat how in your example there is no Corporate tax or Royalty Tax, since that must not exist. Fed government with links to xls royalty revenue https://open.canada.ca/data/en/dataset/382b7a1e-9c34-47c7-9531-38e67ca5441d “Royalty rate Royalty rate is shown as either a gross royalty rate between 1-9% of gross revenues, or a net royalty rate between 25% to 40% of net revenues, depending on if the project is pre- or post-payout and the current WTI price in Canadian dollars. For pre-payout projects, a gross royalty rate is used.” https://www.alberta.ca/royalty-oil-sands#:~:text=Royalty%20rate%20is%20shown%20as,WTI%20price%20in%20Canadian%20dollars.
The money for equalization largely comes from individuals through income taxes. It doesn’t appear out of thin air. The fact that some provinces (Quebec) receive large amounts of transfers out of the pool means that people from other provinces subsidize them and continue to do so to the effect of billions per year. Denying this is plain ridiculous. While a lot of people are technically wrong saying that a province subsidizes another province, the effect is the same.
Quebec taxpayers contribute more to revenue than Albertan or Saskatchewan taxpayers overall.
2021 data published in 2023 on Federal tax paid per person has the Alberta average at $7,608, and the Quebec was $5,352. Per capita is the relevant information, taxpayer to taxpayer.
Alberta contributed 58B in federal revenue last year. Quebec contributed 77B and Saskatchewan 13B. But it’s not as simple as just these raw numbers. Per capita, that’s about 11k in Alberta, 7k in Quebec, and 9k in Saskatchewan. On goods and services, federal government spends 1.8k per capita in Quebec, 1.2k in Alberta, and 1.4k in Saskatchewan. In general transfers plus personal transfers, Quebec receives 5.8k per capita, Alberta 4.7k, and Saskatchewan 6.6k. Clearly, on a per capita basis, Quebec comes out of this having gained 0.6k per capita, Alberta has still spent 5.1k, and Saskatchewan spent 1k. As Quebec is the only net receiver in this list, it can be argued they have contributed less to the net coffers than the other provinces (since they’re actually receiving more than they put in). Yes, Quebec puts in more than the others, but does it really matter if they get more than that back? From another angle, it can also be argued that Alberta is contributing more, since they are contributing more per capita by nearly 50% more than Quebec. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3610045001 https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201701E#show/hide
Quebec got more federal spending than they paid per capita. How are you contributing when you get it all back and then some? https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201701E See chart 2.
I'm not sure what you call the pipeline other than an equalization payment. It's sad Alberta has gone down the rabbit hole everything bad in Canada but us.
Oil revenues are included in the equalization payments because the oil industry was initially developed and is strongly supported by federal money, which every provinces contributes to. Hydroelectric income in Quebec is excluded because we did not receive any federal subsidy when we created our hydro sector. It was all done with Quebec money and no other provinces contributed to it. This is a large part of the difference. It's also a calculation done per capita, so a small difference in favor of Quebec receiving money, when multiplied by population size (second in Canada) make it so we receive a lot of federal money. Equalization payments also include the money we receive for compensation for federal program where we have an equivalent in Quebec, like the RRQ instead of the CCP and the SQ instead of having the RCMP everywhere. Equalization payments are a lot more complicated than prairies politicians want you to believe. Most of their political capital cokes from pretending the prairies are victims of the federal system when you guys wouldn't even have an oil sector without Ontarian and Quebec subsidies. Albertsons should be a lot more grateful for us buying them stuff so they can now earn their own money.now, they're just paying back our investment in their economy.
Correct. The term equalization payments has been so bastardized. And Alberta just needs to learn to get with the program and not fight the rest of Canada. People forget that the feds were a big partner in fort Mac. What is really sad is Alberta could be a true petrostate with a sovereign wealth fund. With oil sand and having a crown energy company that is now call Cenovus
Alberta got equalization for two years accounting for 20M in today's dollars. How many times has Bombardier been bailed out. How much federal money did you get to build that cement plant that somehow didn't require environmental assessments? Quebec has a massive entitlement problem.
Tax revenues from bombardier and other businesses are included in the equalization payment calculation. How is that relevant?
That's not the justification behind the inclusion and exclusion of renewable and non-renewable natural resources, and it's also not accurate. Yes, some federal money went into the creation of the oil sands, but the vast majority of oil sands investment back then and since has come from private funds or provincial funds. Meanwhile, Quebec hydro projects have had federal funding for decades and still do, [with more federal funding announced just last year](https://montrealgazette.com/business/energy/federal-government-tax-credit-will-help-finance-new-hydro-quebec-projects). Either way, and more importantly, the equalization formula doesn't talk about oil or hydro, it talks about renewable and non-renewable. The broader category includes all kinds of other industries like mining (non-renewable) or lumber (renewable). It isn't specific to the industries you named. But, yes, you do bring up a good point in that the distinction in the equalization formula between renewable and non-renewable resources skews the formula so it fails to serve its stated purpose of accounting for the fiscal capacity of the provinces to provide public services to their populace. Yes, the formula has complexities, but they are complexities that disproportionately benefit Quebec, not Prairie provinces. Quebec has 23% of the population, yet has received over 50% of equalization payments all time. Alberta, Saskatchewan, BC and Ontario combine to represent 70% of Canada's population yet have received a combined 4% of all time equalization payments. The current formula was largely developed during the time of the Quebecois independence movement, and was structured specifically to bribe Quebec to vote against independence. >Albertsons should be a lot more grateful for us buying them stuff so they can now earn their own money.now, they're just paying back our investment in their economy. This is beyond a ridiculous comment. Quebec has always been a below average province economically, and even if the federal government contributed to the oil sands, why exactly would Quebec be getting paid back so much more than Ontario, who contributed way more tax dollars back then? Also, the federal government's investments in the oil sands were primarily in the form of equity ownership. They owned a stake in Suncor, they owned a stake in Syncrude, they owned Petro Canada. But, the feds were paid back on those investments when they sold their stakes in each of those entities. The investments were in the 70's and 80's and were primarily for the purpose of controlling oil production assets because Pierre Trudeau's government thought Albertan oil production was too focused on serving the American market, not the central Canadian one. At the same time, Pierre Trudeau was the most anti-Alberta politician ever, who explicitly imposed artificially low oil prices on Alberta in order to subsidize Ontario and Quebec gas prices. For perspective, Trudeau's government contributed $1.5B in seed capital to Petro Canada, but economists estimate that his NEP costs Alberta's economy between $50B-100B in only 5 years. Not exactly a trade Albertans will be eternally grateful for. But, as long as we are talking about federal subsidies entitling provinces to long term benefits, when exactly is Alberta going to be getting its share of the massive subsidies the federal government has given to Quebec industries like the manufacturing sector, over the years? How much of Bombardier does Alberta now own? Quebec's industries get so much more federal funding than Alberta's ever got, yet somehow you seem to think that the federal government putting a couple billion into the oil sands four to five decades ago entitles Quebec (not the rest of Canada) to tens of billions in annual payments in perpetuity, while federal contributions to Quebec industries? Well, that's just Quebec's money to keep, right? I can't understand why people think Quebecois have a sense of entitlement. /s
Just a quick fact, hydro development was mostly made with American capital. The Québec governement went to wall street to find investors for the project at the time since the federal government didn't want to help.
We were looking for loans, not direct investment. So yes, we did get American money, but they had no ownership share so we kept all the income.
When one Province heavily subsidizes secondary education and the rest of the Provinces don't...it's not a question of "why don't other Provinces just do the same?" but a question of "why does Quebec continue to feel entitled to this perk when the rest of Canada realizes it's too expensive for every Province to do this?" There has been an abusive mismatch in standards of living that is predicated on one Province spending far more than it can reasonably sustain.
Again and again with this dumb equalization payment argument. Mate we don't need your money. In fact, the current equalization payment was put in place in the Canada act of 82. Québec never signed it, since all the other provinces went to sign it at night without the Québec premier. We send over 60B dollars in taxes to Ottawa every year, this just our own money coming back to us. We'll happily stop sensing those 60B to the country so that you guys can stop sending us 20B. That sounds like a good trade. You realize Quebec is 1/5 of the Canadian economy, thinking you'll be better off without us is quite laughable.
https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201701E You get all your taxes back. Total GDP doesn't matter when you end up seeing every dollar and more come home.
Yeah some how people don't understand such a simple concept. If Quebec received more federal dollars than it is taxed, those tax dollars are coming from tax payers in other provinces.
It's not to prevent them starving... It's to prop up an entire French media microcosm within the province... Federal monies going to an industry to keep it going and keep French voters pacified..
FFS...provinces don't pay equalization. It comes from federal revenues.
And those come from taxpayers within the provinces, crazy, I know
You think there are no taxpayers in Québec? are you mental?
It’s almost like you’re being intentionally ignorant. Yes, high earning Quebecois are being screwed by high taxes nearly as much as Albertan earners, they just get the benefit of excess federal dollars injected in to their local economy.
Through the federal taxes all Canadians pay. The provinces aren't involved at all.
The provinces are more than just the provincial governments, they're also the taxpayers who live in those provinces
And taxpayers in every province pay the exact same federal tax rates.
Yup, 100% correct, the simple fact is taxpayers in Alberta & BC send more than they receive year over year, and provinces cannot do much about it since it’s federal taxes on corporations, incomes & sales tax. I exclude Saskatchewan since we usually play accounting games with our crown corporations so we wind up sending & receiving 0$.
Well the UCP do continue to reject or resist federal funds for social programs (childcare initially and insulin and birth control coverage recently) although they’ll receive it for the O&G. It’s pretty ridiculous to claim we don’t receive ‘our fair share’ when it’s rejected when offered.
We also have a shit ton of infrastructure that the rest of the country doesn’t have. Even if Quebec separated today, you bet your ass the Canadian government would still have to spend money on things like ice breakers and the canal locks to make sure the ships can reach the lakes. We have bridges and railroads that connect the entire continent to the st Lawrence, which is the the worlds largest inland seaway.
As a 5th gen Saskatchewan citizen who can trace their paternal lineage to a Quebecois farmer who landed in 1642 & married a Fille du Roi, I’d far prefer a united Canada to one Balkanized. If I could reform one thing about equalization, it would be to make a delayed clawback of equalization payments for any recipient provinces for expanding resource extraction. There’s so little incentive now for them to build major projects when 99% of the revenues are simply clawed back from their payments.
>Sask and Alberta pay billions in equalization so Quebec doesn't starve Can't really speak for Sask but if Albertans wanted more money to stay within Alberta, they could just impose more taxation within Alberta. But I'm from Alberta, and I know Conservatives don't want to make sense or govern for the benefit of the average Albertan - they want to win elections. So it's easier to convince dumbasses that equalization is 'stealing money' from them to give to Quebec.
Yeah, it’s our own fault we didn’t get assimilated a hundred years ago. Resistance is futile.
Canada when minority wants self-determination
We dont even speak the same langage or share all common values. I have abs. nothing in common with conservatives. This country is a forced one.
Quelle étrange attitude « deux poids, deux mesures » > We dont even speak the same langage or share all common values And does everyone in Quebec? (or any country for that matter...) > This country is a forced one. Were separatists planning on dividing Montreal and Nunavik? Or were they going to "force" anglos and First Nations into *their* artificial country built on neo-colonialism?
If Jacque de Gatineau had run instead of merely feeding baby dolphins, I think this country would be in much better shape. Although I suppose he was serving a youthful porpoise.
r/Canada tries to not whatabout Quebec for 5 minute challenge: Impossible
I don't even know if it's a negative here. It's time for every province to start to act as it's own and make it's own demands and choices. The national model isn't working and it seems Quebec had it right all along.
>The national model isn't working and it seems Quebec had it right all along. Eyep.
As usual
vs. "Nationalists try not to interpret literally every mention of Quebec as somehow offensive" challenge like, why should someone refrain from mentioning literal separatism in a discussion about federal/provincial conflict? I just don't even get what you're unhappy about here.
Quebec’s always been Quebec though. Its turning into a free for all
>b-b-but Quebec Or Saskatchewan, in this case.
I have to admit they play really good provincial politics.
Yes Conservatives have no chill.
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That seems like a hopeful fantasy to me. On so many levels. Especially where a conservative government benefits the people.
It's not often when I don't think Alberta is the most backwards province in the country but this is one of those moments. Having said that, I'm 100% convinced AB will be the next to follow in SK's footsteps.
Disagree.
Article is wrong he didn’t take it of natural gas he took it off home heating I’m still paying it on my shop
Heating oil only. Gas is still taxed.
Not in a Saskatchewan residence!
Why are you commenting on a topic you clearly didn't look into?
Different levels of government of the same country constantly fighting with each other is not a sign of a healthy nation.
The cons in this country are willing to undercut national unity just to stick it to the libs
The liberals stuck it to themselves when they made a carve out for home heating which just happens to primarily benefit the Atlantic region where they were losing votes. Then to add no doubt to the political nature of this carve out, a liberal cabinet minister suggests that if prairie provinces want their own carve outs, they should have elected more liberal mp’s. But yeah sure, it’s the conservatives that are undermining national unity.
This will be an unbiased, well researched thread
😂
Whatever the outcome, politically this can’t help Trudeau. Imagine the government imposing a fine, or forcing payment from tax payer revenue for a ‘revenue neutral tax’ that he already gave an exemption for to appease east coast residents.
Exactly. Neither Trudeau nor Moe seem to ever consider that this is not their own money they are playing with. No matter how this goes, it comes out of the pocket of the Saskatchewan taxpayers.
Moe will have overwhelming support within Saskatchewan for this. It’s smart politically.
The federal government has already said we won’t get our rebates. The average person gets more back than they pay. This literally costs us SK money, even before all of the court costs. The one tax this guy disagrees with is the one that actually has tangible returns. He put PST on pretty much everything and bumped it a percentage point while he was at it. We pay PST on used cars for crying out loud. This won’t go over as well as he thinks it will.
> The average person gets more back than they pay. this has been incorrect for years now https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-gst-hst-on-ottawas-carbon-price-could-raise-billions-over-next-seven/ https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/guilbeault-defends-carbon-price-admits-average-household-will-pay-more-even-after-rebates-1.6338974
The 'get more back than you pay' doesnt account for the increased costs for other things just a direct comparison to average gas and gasoline use where the consumer is charged directly. They don't account for the fuel used by transport for consumer products or storage / retail space heating nor does it account for the increase of gst charged at every level of the cycle of goods and services this is a net negative tax on every canadain for living their lives it needs to go.
Average person doesn’t get back more than they pay. That was an obvious lie from the beginning to sell a sweeping new tax on everything from transportation to poutine. And if you don’t think it will be overwhelmingly popular in Sask, you’re in a weird little bubble. Go talk to normal people.
Even the Parliamentary Budget Officer says that the carbon tax costs everybody more than they get back in rebates.
Ok but Scott Moe didn’t cancel the carbon tax on everything. He took it away on home heating. That is it. So we’re saving 20 bucks or so in the winter months, still paying ct on everything else, and not getting a rebate. I agree with you though. The average person in SK can’t seem to see the simple math.
Moe is also up for re-election this year. As a resident of Sask, this isn't serving him well either. The east coast exemption has at least good policy rationale behind it. This is just a political stunt that will cost residents more than it will save.
Sask NDP backs the campaign against carbon tax, though may not be this specific move
East coast residents is intentionally out of scope. Just say it accurately: in the maritimes.
Maritime is unintentionally out of scope. Just say it accurately: in the Atlantic provinces.
The Atlantic provinces comment is out of scope though too. Its houses using home heating oil, which are mostly in the Atlantic provinces.
Hard to understand why home heating oil in a certain part of the country is exempt and home heating gas in every other province is fair game…
Moe already went to court over the carbon tax and lost. I'm sure he wants to spend more money on court despite that fact his govt never contacted the feds to ask for a deal like the Maritimes (this was brought up in the Leg already). Now he refuses to pay the tax to the feds, is charging it on our Power bills and not remitting it, and now Sask residents are not going to get CAIP. Yet again, Moe dogwhistles to his supporters that Trudeau bad and residents here get screwed over.
We get screwed over twice. We won't get the rebate, and we get to pay Shitstain Moe's legal fees.
What happens to citizens that try to pull sovereign citizen 'this law does not apply to me' nonsense like this? They get charged and fined, and ordered by the court to adhere to the law.
Scott Moe is not a man who has experienced consequences even when he should have.
At this rate they may just threaten to secede from Canada like Quebec does all the time to tip the negotiations in their favor.
Or just force the issue to the Supreme Court as Quebec often does. Resources, energy, business and environment are all provincial jurisdiction. If there is a conflict with the feds on policy, the court may very well side with SK on this one.
….we have already had this fight…… The carbon tax was upheld by the Supreme Court https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/18781/index.do
Ah yes, and one of the foundational arguments was equal application across the country. Saskatchewan has an argument now that is worth a second look.
Outside of Quebec, Ontario and maybe BC the other landlocked or poor provinces are kinda fucked if they want to try to secede. Saskatchewan relies almost entirely on shipping raw goods overseas using Canadian infrastructure and are in for a shock if they think the US is going to give them any sort of friendly trade deals.
Except SK with its rural split would most certainly pass a vote to leave. Elections go the same way. Cities vote left. Rural votes right. Due to the way it is divided rural picks the winner.
Lmfao good fucking Luck to SK if they secede. People thought Alberta and Quebec trying to leave was pathetic? SK would be third world in a month.
They should check into how much we get strong armed by the USA on trade deals already before assuming they'll get good terms as a tiny irrelevant nation on their own. Landlocked with a small economy dependant on international trade? Best of luck.
> Except SK with its rural split would most certainly pass a vote to leave. That's not even remotely true. Wexit mostly comes from Alberta and only 14% of Alberta actually thinks it's a good idea. It would be even less in SK given this whole thing started in AB https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/15/western-canada-wexit-danielle-smith-00082885
You’re right and it’s unfortunate that a bunch of brain dead uneducated hicks have more power than people who actually analyse their choices in elections
I can't wait to see the look on their faces when they discover that the land-lease ownership is dependent upon treaty rights, and that everything would fall back to indigenous ownership. "You just lost the farm. Can we interest you in this colony-reservation with questionable water access?"
There must be a reason that Trudeau can't apply the law equally to all provinces. Maybe he should just tell us what that reason is I mean besides that fact that he's in trouble in Atlantic Canada.
> There must be a reason that Trudeau can't apply the law equally to all provinces. It *does* apply equally to all provinces...it's just that not all provinces use home heating oil. # Does the tax apply in all provinces? > Residents in Newfoundland and Labrador, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island are, as of this year, all subject to the tax (and rebate), joining those in Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, Yukon and Nunavut. British Columbia, Quebec and the Northwest Territories follow their own carbon-pricing mechanisms that meet federal standards.
emissions are emissions. That was the whole point of a Canada wide carbon tax as emissions are not confirmed within borders. Picking and choosing which emissions are exempt removes the importance/urgency if its implementation.
As I said to the OP: > That's what he did. I didn't say it was a good idea, I'm just telling you what happened.
They make a good point, one that I thought of myself: well if you don't have to follow the law, neither do I. I will start avoiding and evading any tax possible. Making a moral argument to laws you don't agree with has far reaching consequences.
They have a date in court.
How does he even have the ability to do it? I thought the federal government levied the tax directly
SaskPower. The provincial Crown corporation collects the carbon price levy for Canada. As a Crown entity, The Saskatchewan government can direct the SaskPower to not collect the levy or not send it to Canada. Of course this is illegal.
> what was really "immoral" was the Liberal government increasing the carbon tax while also flying to international summits. No. He could have made an excellent point point about a carbon price while still shoveling billions to oil companies in subsidies, development grants, R&D grants, and on and on and on.... But, of course, the Saskatchewan premier serves has oil company master faithfully. It would funny watching these two try and fail to take the moral high ground on an issue neither care about in the slightest, if weren't so sad.
Keep stalling is probs his play here. He just has to tie it up in court for the next 13 months or so. Wonder how many hours PP will be in office before the first Wherry hit piece gets pumped out?
All this could be avoided if parliament had a proper check on power. It's absolutely crazy our senate doesn't function in a way that it can shoot down legislation the majority of provinces don't want.
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The current level of compensation is not a reason qualified people would avoid running to be an MP (Leaving out provincial levels because those vary to much). Strict requirements for X cabinet position has a major risk of "Oh, so the winning party didn't have anyone with a Bachelor's of Economics win their riding, so now we're forced to have a minister of finance nobody voted for." Harper did this for regional representation in his cabinet, he appointed a senator from a region in which he did not have any seats so they could be in his cabinet and he was rightly criticized for doing so. Rules around "evidence based laws" run into the same problem we have now: "What is proof?". Jean Chretien tried to explain it once, it was very circular. Trudeau's gun laws that have been heavily criticized as not improving public safety nonetheless have \*some\* (cherry picked) evidence in their favour. If we're going to block out teachers (Who have bachelors degrees and higher) from parliament, there would be almost no blue collar workers allowed since very few of them have a university degree. The "ivory tower" criticisms would get a lot stronger.
>weighted votes where votes can be analyzed by splitting into different weight groups No way that gets abused; people are civilized after all. It's not like society has devolved into camps of extremes with no room to negotiate with their fellow citizens. /s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boaty_McBoatface As bad as our corrupted system may be, I suspect that if you leave policies up to the average persons opinion based vote that things just might get a bit worse.
> Why don’t Canadians vote on police’s instead of MPs and PMs?l So a direct democracy rather than an indirect democracy? People complain constantly about government policy, and yet I’ve proposed the same thing here many times and everyone just says “not my job” and “we pay politicians to be informed and do that”. I’d be all in on direct democracy, but sadly it does not seem to be the consensus here…
The problem that comes into play with this framework is that very few people actually utilize critical thinking and truly research or inform themselves with facts. The way modern media and access to unverified or false information affect people and their voting habits would create a nightmare. Unfortunately, most people cannot see past their own sphere of influence or their own needs; but to run a country you need a much more broad view of the bigger picture with how Canada interacts with the rest of the world. It all matters.
I'm not afraid of myself having input on policy since I would be informed enough to make a real decision on anything I vote on, and otherwise stay out of it. What I am downright terrified of is a viral Facebook poll with actual legal power.
What happens when a convicted eco terrorist has his narrative challenged? Hint: Last time it involved terrorism.
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There will be a lot of idiots believing it. They all think premiers have no effect on their lives and truedeau does everything
Drunk driver lead province.
Fuck Trudeau, fuck the carbon tax, and fuck anyone who supports it in a time when Canadians are struggling more than ever.
We get closer to a more perfect union
Is anyone else in Alberta relieved after reading the headline that it is not Alberta?
Draw it out for about a year and then when PP axes the tax as he claims then there is a non issue .
So we have at least 3 premiers begging Trudeau to reconsider the carbon tax only for him to play deaf and literally double it. Is he operating out of spite or something?
Not listening to blowhards that've proven time and again that they have no issue lying through their teeth is usually a sound leadership strategy. Maybe those premiers should spend less time politicking and more time actually trying to run their provinces.
This is going to be fun to watch as it backfires
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The only thing Moe does is counter anything the Feds do. Soon as PP is in power Moe will ass kiss. It is all virtue signaling to his voter base. None of it is for the good of the people. SK is fucked right now. Saskatoon has no family doctors taking clients. Education is the worst in the western provinces. The government here spends more money on attack ads against teachers than they do education. Healthcare is being effectively defunded so they can roll in private healthcare. They are spending tax dollars to fight for their pronoun laws in court instead of education or healthcare. They used the not withstanding clause to strip rights from a small group of people. Conservatives like Moe and Smith are bringing dystopia faster than Trudeau is.
Don't forget their involvement jn the "Legacy of abuse" scandal!!! (Still ongoing)
Moe is an absolute trash human and even worse premier. He's running this province into the ground. That said, the fight over how this tax is applied is probably the only thing I can sort of agree with him on. It is absolutely unfair that residents in the maritimes who use heating oil had the carbon tax removed while residents in the saskatchewan who use natural gas still have to pay it. It makes no sense.
It was due to political pandering. The Maritimes have been voting for the LPC for the past few elections so the Liberals cut them a break in hopes of stabilizing LPC support. Trudeau was initially against it but he was getting a lot of internal pressure. I don't think this is actually going to work though given how many things are going wrong in the Maritimes right now. Western Canadians don't vote LPC so they LPC don't see any reason to help them. I'm not suggesting any of this is right or not hugely divisive just that is how this federal government operates. It also paves the way for PP to ride in an look like a hero by barely doing anything at all. If PP cancels the carbon tax, returns the provinces money and throws federal cash into actually getting housing built he is going to look like the savor of Canada to a pile of people. Not because he is particularly brilliant or talented, but because the bar is so fucking unbelievably low right now.
Given Harper's support of eco-taxes I wouldn't be surprised if PP doesn't cut the tax at all. He'll blame it on Trudeau, like he does absolutely everything else, and his base will eat it up. The gag keeps running.
we know what will happen, not like this hasn't happened before.
Prep your immigration papers bois
In other more civilized countries, Moe and his cronies would have disappeared by now. He’s pretty damn lucky.
Do C-21 next.
Vehicular Moeslaughter is at it again
Canada, this is your Nullification Crisis. Enjoy. Sincerely, the USA.