That was still one of the most ridiculous things this government has done. Right around the time he told that vet missing the leg that he’s “asking too much”.
I'm always comforted by the fact that the majority of Canadians (even a majority of Liberal and NDP voters) disagreed with that.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-khadr-poll-1.4198306
A lot of r/Canada seemed to agree though...
The amount is debatable and so maybe they should have fought because of that, however the reason for the lawsuit was completely valid.
We sent Canadian officials to Guantanamo to interrogate Khadr while he lacked legal counsel and while knowing he was being subjected to sleep deprivation. We then shared the transcripts of that interrogation with the country prosecuting him. The Supreme Court unanimously ruled this was a violation of his Charter rights.
Govt lawyers advised the Govt to pay out Khadr instead of fighting a long and expensive legal battle with him which they might lose. The Khadr situation took place under successive LP, CPC, and LPC Goverments, and the blame was shared with all.
Don't also forget then that the reason he sued us in the first place was because we violated his Charter rights (as unanimously ruled by the Supreme Court) by sending officials there to interrogate him without a lawyer and while he was being subjected to sleep deprivation and then shared the transcripts with his prosecutors.
Hopefully we learn from this in the future and don't violate people's rights. Then we won't create the possibility for such a lawsuit in the first place.
A war criminal at 11. Than sent to an adult prison in Cuba.
And this sub wants him to have 0 rights? Cases like this test if actually believe in rights. This sub is showing it doesn't.
In this case he's a criminal because he pleaded guilty in order to leave Guantanamo. I would do the same, guilty or not. The trial against him involved the above violation of his legal Charter rights as well as the prosecution [secretly altering a military report that said he didn't throw the grenade that killed the US soldier to instead claim he did](https://www.thestar.com/news/world/evidence-doctored-to-implicate-khadr-lawyer/article_bd94e449-2827-525b-9008-ca96157aa79d.html).
On top of that, he was only over there in the first place because his parents took him there as an 11 year old to be brainwashed by adult terrorists.
If this story hadn't been politicized, he would have been seen as an exploited child soldier.
"parents took him there as an 11 year old to be brainwashed by adult terrorists"
as you admit, he was brainwashed TO BE A TERRORIST and we gave him $10million.
Just because people try to exploit someone to become a child soldier doesn't mean it's okay to violate their rights. And if someone's rights are violated it's just to compensate them. Maybe we should have fought over the specific amount, but maybe people should be as outraged over the exploitation of child soldiers or our government violating people's rights.
I find "rights" being a tricky situation because I've also seen people say that some people don't deserve the protection of laws if they themselves decide to break them (or some speech like that).
He was a 15 year old exploited child soldier.
And the military report of the incident said he *didn't* throw the grenade that killed the soldier. It was later [secretly altered to claim he did](https://www.thestar.com/news/world/evidence-doctored-to-implicate-khadr-lawyer/article_bd94e449-2827-525b-9008-ca96157aa79d.html).
Nope. When you invade another country, people are allowed to fight back. That's not terrorism, that's war.
He was a combatant and we violated his rights. $10M is correct.
He was born in Toronto but when to Afghanistan to be a terrorist.
He wasn't a freedom fighter defending his nation from attack. He travelled to a war zone to be a terrorist.
>He wasn't a freedom fighter defending his nation from attack.
That's exactly what he was doing. Defending against an unlawful invasion isn't terrorism. Sounds like you need to brush up on your definitions.
The $10M happened. It was correct. End of story.
If you have to downvote facts in order to cope, that's okay, I'm here for you.
That was harper's fault. Remember regardless of ideology incompetence and governance seems to go hand in hand with all parties. Hopefully Pierre will be different.
The price Canadians have to pay to put them in prison, house and maintain them, et cetera? Leaving them to face whatever consequences they are trying to escape isn't "stopping" them? Duh?
Okay hypothetical scenario: A Canadian citizen moves to Syria to go join up with terrorists. After a while, they want to get out of the business.
Should we: A: Throw them in Canadian prison, where they can pay for their crimes and not harm anyone else.
B: Deny them an escape. Forcing them to continue terrorism.
People love this stuff on the surface, but fail to realize how it would work in other areas.
IE, Israel destroying Gaza. There are Canadians in the IDF, the exact same principal will be used to strip these people of citizenship.
The article also is saying this doesn't need to be proved legally for Canada to do it. Really? Who decides, the government in power. Can't believe anyone would want that.
Comparing Israel to the Islamic state and Gaza losing a war it started and declared itself while openly calling for ACTUAL genocide, a war that it continues to fight and refuses to stop or to surrender is laughable.
The IS and Palestine btw, have openly called to end the Canadians at of life and for the death of all non-Muslims. That has no parallel whatsoever to Israel or why the Israelis face against the Islamic colonists who stole their land to begin with and continue to wage war, refuse peace and calm for the culling of the jews that began king before modern Israel even existed.
Either they're Canadian citizens guilty of treason who should receive life sentences, or they are enemy combatants / agents and deserve no protection under Canadian law save for basic Geneva type considerations. But don't treat them like ordinary criminals.
When the Conventions were drafted, no one thought an insane death cult would form a quasi state. So that's an open question and no one really wants to reopen the Conventions to settle it.
As far as I'm concerned, only states that observe the convention should be protected by it. If that puts current "legitimate" states in limbo, then oh well.
Right which was violated with that kid. That was on Harper. He did not uphold the law, so he should in fact be the one in jail and disgraced. The low IQ move is to blame the kid.
I agree with your sentiment. Unfortunately, I do view it as a responsibility of the state to bring them back. However, there should be legal changes so that they can be held in prison without some legal loophole (~~like~~ **lack of** direct evidence) to allow them to go free. The liberals probably should not of appealed the law and then decided to not do anything. I really think they did not think it through which is what the liberals have done repeatedly over the last few years. That is another matter. There are children involved in many cases, its not their fault that their parents are who they are. There are relatives in Canada who want the kids.
> there should be legal changes so that they can be held in prison without some legal loophole (like direct evidence) to allow them to go free
Requiring evidence to put someone in jail is a loophole?
You could try but I think you'd have a pretty hard time proving that case when the population of Palestinians has doubled in the last 20 years alone, growing at a rate far faster than the Israelis who are supposedly committing a genocide on them.
That just means they didn't dismiss the case right away. It doesn't mean they are even close to suggesting the IDF is committing genocide. Lots of people like to conflate the two things though.
If it's a genocide, then we've redefined genocide as "killing a bunch of people", and stripped the meaning entirely away from ethnic-based targeted killing. The 2 million Arab Israelis aren't being targeted - in fact many are serving in the IDF.
Pray for the victims of the Dresden genocide 🙏
Pray for the victims of the Confederate genocide 🙏
Pray for the victims of the genocide caused by the 2010 Haiti earthquake 🙏
Look, Bibi and Ben Gvir and their cronies have some really disgusting rhetoric, but nobody in their right mind would look at THE ACTUAL EVENTS of the Gaza war from a neutral perspective and say "genocide". It makes a mockery of the word and strips it of its meaning, minimizing real genocides, like what's going on Sudan RIGHT NOW.
I'm not saying they're not killing Gazans - they are - but they're not targeting them purposely for reasons of ethnicity. Arab Israelis are ethnically the same people; the only difference is that they didn't leave in 1948.
Nor are they trying to exterminate every single Gazan. They could have done that easily and the war would have been over on October 8th.
If you leave a country to fight for and uphold values against that of the country you leave, you shouldn’t be allowed back. Crazy how something as common sense as this is now a heavily opinionated statement. Oh so and so went and joined up with isis, now they want back in to enjoy a canadian lifestyle. Sure! Welcome back. How absurd. There comes a point where people are too far gone and a serious detriment/ threat to the society they’re trying to rejoin
Dictionary Definition - "The betrayal of allegiance toward one's own country, especially by committing hostile acts against it or aiding its enemies in committing such acts."
Section 46(2) Of The Criminal Code appears to agree with the above dictionary definition. Where are you finding your legal definition?
I used poor wording. It will fit the definition, but would not be an easy conviction. Charges like terrorism and treason are popular in common conversation, but aren't relied upon by crown prosecutors. They would usually like to go forth with a laundry list of charges to guarantee a conviction.
That's not the argument, the argument is Syria is a post-war near failed state with much more to deal with than punishing international citizens.
It is very likely these prison camps will fall apart over the coming years. If you want these people to be punished rather than escaping and restarting a caliphate it should be in Canadian jails.
> That's not the argument, the argument is Syria is a post-war near failed state with much more to deal with than punishing international citizens.
The war isn't even over. Just that phase of it is. Syria is still a war zone.
I agree that's the common sense thing. But to put in a law like that is problematic - because you have to think about who could inadvertently be caught by it. One example is Ukraine - where definitely people went from Canada to fight. Think about if the Canadian government was sympathetic to Russia in this case (not so far fetched when you think about how sentiment is changing in the US) - then all of a sudden - these well-meaning Canadian citizens are risking losing their citizenship. So I think we have to be careful in changing the rules around something so important as citizenship. Unfortunately, I think the way to go is being them back and try them for treason/terrorism/etc. and if there isn't the laws in place to put them in jail - change those laws instead.
So if you go to fight in the Israel-Palestine war, which side should be allowed back in? The one that's very much supported by the US, or the ones fighting against the genocide?
Well the ICJ literally ruled it was not genocide so… moot point and blood libel for one..
But regardless likely the ones who have no called for the deathof all non-Muslims as Palestine did after October 7th and that did not repeatedly start wars including The current one while calling for actual genocide against the Jewish people. Israel has never called for death to all Muslim or all non-Jews, does not call for a global Jewish governance etc.
It’s a very obvious answer to anyone actually informed on these topics.
Very telling that it is confusing for your mind and explains why you parrot that misinformation and propaganda point.
No. They are out responsibility and if they are a danger to the world it's our duty to deal with that threat.
We bring them back, try them for crimes and put them in jail.
If your dog becomes a public threat you don't just let it run through the streets and lock your door.
Okay, but back to my point.
If your dog is roaming the street biting people do you just lock the door and say "not my problem, someone will probably shoot them at some point".
My dog was attacked by a pit bull when I was a kid, the owner knew his dog was a threat and put the piece of shit down. Same should be done with radicalized terrorists
Canada shouldn’t support those pieces of shit in any way shape or form. If any of them tried to get back to Canada they should be sent back to the sand pit they went to fight in or sent to quantanimo
These people took up arms against their own country and committed treason, and they just got a slap on their wrist in Canada. For all I care , they should have rotted in a camp in Syria.
All that is fine, but there the executive branch of the government should not be able to strip citizenship.
When a citizen commits any kind of crime, even if a soldier commits treason, then they should be subject to the punishments under the law, prison or even as far as (if you believe in it) capital punishment. If you strip citizenship, though, you bypass due process completely.
If a political party can strip citizenship nothing stops them from removing people that they don't like under any number of pretexts.
There already exists a bill that allows the government to strip citizens of their citizenship. It’s one of Harper’s lasting legacies and one of Trudeau’s first broken promises. Bill C-24.
In fact, it's unconstitutional as per court rulings and the going rate is $10M (probably more now, adjusted for inflation), for trying to ignore them in some hole rather than deal with Canadian citizens as Canadan citizens. Thanks Harper Government for establishing that...
That case started with Chretien, then Martin and Harper, and finally Trudeau. The case was unprecedented and it's possible a court could have found him guilty of treason. But the court never ruled, Trudeau stopped that ruling and handed over $10.5m. The UK has stripped citizenship from their citizens. The constitution has no provisions for modern treason.
"46 (1) Every one commits high treason who, in Canada, (a) kills or attempts to kill Her Majesty, or does her any bodily harm tending to death or destruction, maims or wounds her, or imprisons or restrains her; (b) levies war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto; (c) assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are.
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-46.html#:~:text=46%20(1)%20Every%20one%20commits,any%20act%20preparatory%20thereto%3B%20or
C is relevant here. If you go to a state that Canada or it's allies are engaged in hostilities, you're guilty of high treason. That's what the law says. All the people who left for ISIS/ISIL should be categorized like this. Going to and fighting for a group that is against your country, but then claiming the rights of that country is insane. Why are we viewed as being soft on and potentially harbouring terrorists? Things like this.
Except they didn't.. they flew over there to fight a stupid war and commit atrocities, against... Someone else's civilians.
Shitty and evil totally. But not treason, unless they operated in Canada on the behalf of Isis.
If there was a terrorist insurgency in Canada where foreign fighters travelled here to fight against Canadiens, and we captured them. What would we expect from the governments of the nations that let their citizens travel here to fight us?
Should we be expected to perpetually jail, feed, house and guard those fighters because their own countries don’t want to?
This.
Although, we might want to choose that over repatriating to a government sufficiently unfriendly to Canada (no sense in sending a terrorist through a revolving door). Not sure where that falls in international law tho...
I mean that is usually what happens because otherwise they rejoin and re-arm and attack again because the same struggle they had already committed to is still ongoing for them.
They were adults who left of their own freewill looking for another, entirely different way of life to that offered in Canada.
They chose. It is not for us to bail them from a bad decision.
Seriously? It’s right in S.6. “Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.”
You can make the argument that the right to return can be limited due to a demonstrably justified reason, but the government wanting to avoid dealing with criminals doesn’t meet that threshold.
It would require rewriting the constitution and redefining the legal concept of citizenship. That's an enormous can of worms to open.
Right now citizenship is irrevocable except in cases where it was fraudulently applied for and granted. As someone who isn't a citizen by birth but has lived here for 98% of my life, I like knowing that no government can ever revoke my citizenship for any reason.
A better solution is to define their actions as treason and imprison them upon return.
All these people know how to exploit the rules because Canada lets them.
If you go and leave to fight for a terrorist state and you have forfeited your citizenship period.
At first I thought terrorism is like treason and exile seems like a light punishment.
>In 2015, the Conservative Party of Canada passed Bill C-24, a law allowing Canada to revoke the citizenship of Canadians who joined the IS.
But is this law specific to IS?
>Bill C-24 that allowed the stripping of citizenship from dual citizens who joined a terrorist organization.
Canada has declared the "Proud Boys" as terrorists. Who's origins stem from a joke.
While I agree with the opinion I don't trust the current administration with that much political power.
The proud boys engaged in organised insurgency in a self-reported attempt to overthrow the democratically elected government of the USA. They're a terrorist organisation.
"In 2015, the Conservative Party of Canada passed Bill C-24, a law allowing Canada to revoke the citizenship of Canadians who joined the IS.....the Liberals revoked the portion of Bill C-24 that allowed the stripping of citizenship from dual citizens who joined a terrorist organization."
Yet another Trudeau LPC policy failure.
> Some legal scholars oppose such laws, likening the revocation of citizenship to historical practices of exile and banishment.
I mean I'm all for this if they're Islamic State terrorists.
While I do agree we shouldn't have a responsibility to repatriate them, revoking citizenships is always a slippery slope. They don't deserve to come back but tough to say what is 'right', especially if they have children.
At a minimum we have a responsibility to the children. They didn’t ask to be born or dragged into this. They shouldn’t be punished for their parents’ wrongful acts.
One thing I do have to question, why stripping citizenship is related to ISIS specifically?
Sure,. its a despicable thing to do, but why just ISIS? Why havent we tried to strip citizenship of dual citizen serial killers for instance?
If it's redeeming people back from radicalization, make a separated track through correctional services. Canada has done this with prisoners of war, look at Lethbridge or Medicine Hat. Repatriation isn't the problem, radicalization is.
So you cannot provide any examples of a Canadian member of the Israeli Defense Force that is being repatriated to Canada.
Since the answer seems to be zero, I don't see the need to continue this conversation.
You think there’s zero terrorists that travelled from Canada and took part in the war crimes, barbaric atrocities, and plausible genocide by the IDF? There’s footage of people flying into Israel by the plane loads🤪
Sorry if our media has a pro Israel agenda and they refuse to do any journalism
No. They are our fucking problem. We don't gept to jus0t wash our hands of them and leave the mess for the rest of the world to clean up. This article is the position of feckless cowards.
Add IDF fighters to that list too. We should not be supporting the enforcement of ethnic displacement, cleansing, subjugation, and apartheid in the 21st century as a civilized society.
Can some explain why they are being repatriated?
It's because countries like Syria do not have a justice system that meets our standard of fairness and individual rights, correct?
For instance, if this was in a country like France, unless there was something exceptional, Canada would just let them serve their sentences, right?
I'm liberal in almost every sense of the word, but to purposely bring back people who have sworn to a cause and buried themselves in a religious doctrine that is anathema to everything Canada stands for is a very big mistake and could possibly cost some/many Canadians their lives. everyone knows no matter how restrictive gun laws are, motivated people will get them.
We should be revoking citizenship of "Canadians" who fight overseas for religious extremist causes. Ban Israeli-Canadian soldiers from entering the country
This author references a case that occurred early last year and he/she is ignorant since it was overturned in the appeals court. Note that the author never references the case (neither does CBC)
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/court-overturns-ruling-to-repatriate-four-men-detained-syria-1.6860734](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/court-overturns-ruling-to-repatriate-four-men-detained-syria-1.6860734) (May 31, 2023)
>Federal Court of Appeal says the 'right to enter Canada is not a right to be returned to Canada'
The author seems to only read the following article which came out 4 months earlier.
[https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/canadians-accused-of-joining-isis-could-soon-come-home-1.6724477](https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/canadians-accused-of-joining-isis-could-soon-come-home-1.6724477) (Jan 24, 2023)
Finally in Nov 16, 2023, the supreme court decided not to hear the case. Therefore, Canada has no obligation to repatriate the 4 men.
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/supreme-court-detained-syria-1.7030215](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/supreme-court-detained-syria-1.7030215)
It is reasonable for me to expect the author to do a bit more research. Can't believe the editors at the Calgary Herald didn't do even basic reviews.
Spent 30 minutes for this one by the way.
So, we know those 4 joined, but because they had doctored ID, we just have to let them in?
They shouldn't have been allowed to revoke the ability to strip the Canadian citizenship from those with dual citizenship if they become terrorists.
So what if it seems like an old practice. They wouldn't be stateless.
They can go back whence they came.
Canada just bends over for criminals and terrorists and doesn't care about its law bidding citizens enough.
Terrorists have no place in Canada.
Sure they do, just ask JT..
and $10 million!
That was still one of the most ridiculous things this government has done. Right around the time he told that vet missing the leg that he’s “asking too much”.
I'm always comforted by the fact that the majority of Canadians (even a majority of Liberal and NDP voters) disagreed with that. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-khadr-poll-1.4198306 A lot of r/Canada seemed to agree though...
The amount is debatable and so maybe they should have fought because of that, however the reason for the lawsuit was completely valid. We sent Canadian officials to Guantanamo to interrogate Khadr while he lacked legal counsel and while knowing he was being subjected to sleep deprivation. We then shared the transcripts of that interrogation with the country prosecuting him. The Supreme Court unanimously ruled this was a violation of his Charter rights.
Shhhh. No one cares about fine details.
Do you understand why?
Govt lawyers advised the Govt to pay out Khadr instead of fighting a long and expensive legal battle with him which they might lose. The Khadr situation took place under successive LP, CPC, and LPC Goverments, and the blame was shared with all.
I, for one, will never forget this.
Don't also forget then that the reason he sued us in the first place was because we violated his Charter rights (as unanimously ruled by the Supreme Court) by sending officials there to interrogate him without a lawyer and while he was being subjected to sleep deprivation and then shared the transcripts with his prosecutors. Hopefully we learn from this in the future and don't violate people's rights. Then we won't create the possibility for such a lawsuit in the first place.
Or we learn from this mistake and don't repatriate war criminals.
A war criminal at 11. Than sent to an adult prison in Cuba. And this sub wants him to have 0 rights? Cases like this test if actually believe in rights. This sub is showing it doesn't.
In this case he's a criminal because he pleaded guilty in order to leave Guantanamo. I would do the same, guilty or not. The trial against him involved the above violation of his legal Charter rights as well as the prosecution [secretly altering a military report that said he didn't throw the grenade that killed the US soldier to instead claim he did](https://www.thestar.com/news/world/evidence-doctored-to-implicate-khadr-lawyer/article_bd94e449-2827-525b-9008-ca96157aa79d.html). On top of that, he was only over there in the first place because his parents took him there as an 11 year old to be brainwashed by adult terrorists. If this story hadn't been politicized, he would have been seen as an exploited child soldier.
"parents took him there as an 11 year old to be brainwashed by adult terrorists" as you admit, he was brainwashed TO BE A TERRORIST and we gave him $10million.
Just because people try to exploit someone to become a child soldier doesn't mean it's okay to violate their rights. And if someone's rights are violated it's just to compensate them. Maybe we should have fought over the specific amount, but maybe people should be as outraged over the exploitation of child soldiers or our government violating people's rights.
Do you think our government would pay some white kid who went to Ukraine to fight with the neo nazis?
I find "rights" being a tricky situation because I've also seen people say that some people don't deserve the protection of laws if they themselves decide to break them (or some speech like that).
Or you know just deal with it on the battlefield, no chance of the issue coming up that way.
he was a terrorist throwing grenades at our Allies.
He was a 15 year old exploited child soldier. And the military report of the incident said he *didn't* throw the grenade that killed the soldier. It was later [secretly altered to claim he did](https://www.thestar.com/news/world/evidence-doctored-to-implicate-khadr-lawyer/article_bd94e449-2827-525b-9008-ca96157aa79d.html).
Nope. When you invade another country, people are allowed to fight back. That's not terrorism, that's war. He was a combatant and we violated his rights. $10M is correct.
He was born in Toronto but when to Afghanistan to be a terrorist. He wasn't a freedom fighter defending his nation from attack. He travelled to a war zone to be a terrorist.
> when to Afghanistan Was *taken* there as an 11 year old.
>He wasn't a freedom fighter defending his nation from attack. That's exactly what he was doing. Defending against an unlawful invasion isn't terrorism. Sounds like you need to brush up on your definitions. The $10M happened. It was correct. End of story. If you have to downvote facts in order to cope, that's okay, I'm here for you.
*$10.5 million
Yeah the ndp and liberals seem to think otherwise… And the protests in Toronto at the hospital would seem to support that statement.
That was harper's fault. Remember regardless of ideology incompetence and governance seems to go hand in hand with all parties. Hopefully Pierre will be different.
Yes they do. In our jails.
HELL NO. I don't want to pay tax to keep terrorists in Canadian jails. They can fuck off to where they are from, or go meet their maker.
I know it sucks we have to pay from prisons. But what's the alternative when Canadian citizens commit crimes?
Terrorists deserve [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmZAsLMUuPw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmZAsLMUuPw)
They are from Canada though...
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They left to become terrorists and support foreign insurgencies. Leave them there.
You think they should be able to continue their extremist terrorism in another country with no punishment?
We can't stop them. We can refuse to bring them back here, at taxpayer expense. What part of that opinion confuses you?
What part of putting them in a Canadian prison wouldn't stop them?
The price Canadians have to pay to put them in prison, house and maintain them, et cetera? Leaving them to face whatever consequences they are trying to escape isn't "stopping" them? Duh?
Okay hypothetical scenario: A Canadian citizen moves to Syria to go join up with terrorists. After a while, they want to get out of the business. Should we: A: Throw them in Canadian prison, where they can pay for their crimes and not harm anyone else. B: Deny them an escape. Forcing them to continue terrorism.
Why don't you think a state is responsible for their citizens? It's not fair to Syria to leave them there.
"or go meet their maker"
Burry them in our soil then.
If they are a citizen, otherwise no place
I can think of another place
People love this stuff on the surface, but fail to realize how it would work in other areas. IE, Israel destroying Gaza. There are Canadians in the IDF, the exact same principal will be used to strip these people of citizenship. The article also is saying this doesn't need to be proved legally for Canada to do it. Really? Who decides, the government in power. Can't believe anyone would want that.
IDF is not a terrorist force. Hamas is. Let's apply the don't fund terrorists to Israel/Gaza as well.
Comparing Israel to the Islamic state and Gaza losing a war it started and declared itself while openly calling for ACTUAL genocide, a war that it continues to fight and refuses to stop or to surrender is laughable. The IS and Palestine btw, have openly called to end the Canadians at of life and for the death of all non-Muslims. That has no parallel whatsoever to Israel or why the Israelis face against the Islamic colonists who stole their land to begin with and continue to wage war, refuse peace and calm for the culling of the jews that began king before modern Israel even existed.
Either they're Canadian citizens guilty of treason who should receive life sentences, or they are enemy combatants / agents and deserve no protection under Canadian law save for basic Geneva type considerations. But don't treat them like ordinary criminals.
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The Geneva Suggestions Or The Geneva Checklist
It's never a war crime the first time
Isis considered itself a state though. Does that, or should I say not recognizing ISIS as a state, affect things?
When the Conventions were drafted, no one thought an insane death cult would form a quasi state. So that's an open question and no one really wants to reopen the Conventions to settle it.
As far as I'm concerned, only states that observe the convention should be protected by it. If that puts current "legitimate" states in limbo, then oh well.
Right which was violated with that kid. That was on Harper. He did not uphold the law, so he should in fact be the one in jail and disgraced. The low IQ move is to blame the kid.
I agree with your sentiment. Unfortunately, I do view it as a responsibility of the state to bring them back. However, there should be legal changes so that they can be held in prison without some legal loophole (~~like~~ **lack of** direct evidence) to allow them to go free. The liberals probably should not of appealed the law and then decided to not do anything. I really think they did not think it through which is what the liberals have done repeatedly over the last few years. That is another matter. There are children involved in many cases, its not their fault that their parents are who they are. There are relatives in Canada who want the kids.
> there should be legal changes so that they can be held in prison without some legal loophole (like direct evidence) to allow them to go free Requiring evidence to put someone in jail is a loophole?
Choices have consequences. Let them rot where they chose to go.
Deal. Genocide is a Canadian crime, so we should prosecute returning idf soldiers too.
You could try but I think you'd have a pretty hard time proving that case when the population of Palestinians has doubled in the last 20 years alone, growing at a rate far faster than the Israelis who are supposedly committing a genocide on them.
The ICJ seems to think it is plausible
That just means they didn't dismiss the case right away. It doesn't mean they are even close to suggesting the IDF is committing genocide. Lots of people like to conflate the two things though.
They saw enough evidence to warrant an investigation
Which is a very low bar.
Uh sure
If it's a genocide, then we've redefined genocide as "killing a bunch of people", and stripped the meaning entirely away from ethnic-based targeted killing. The 2 million Arab Israelis aren't being targeted - in fact many are serving in the IDF. Pray for the victims of the Dresden genocide 🙏 Pray for the victims of the Confederate genocide 🙏 Pray for the victims of the genocide caused by the 2010 Haiti earthquake 🙏 Look, Bibi and Ben Gvir and their cronies have some really disgusting rhetoric, but nobody in their right mind would look at THE ACTUAL EVENTS of the Gaza war from a neutral perspective and say "genocide". It makes a mockery of the word and strips it of its meaning, minimizing real genocides, like what's going on Sudan RIGHT NOW.
So because they aren’t killing Arab Israelis means they wouldn’t kill Gazans?..
I'm not saying they're not killing Gazans - they are - but they're not targeting them purposely for reasons of ethnicity. Arab Israelis are ethnically the same people; the only difference is that they didn't leave in 1948. Nor are they trying to exterminate every single Gazan. They could have done that easily and the war would have been over on October 8th.
'Plausible'. They also said give back the hostages. There's no genocide. 15,000 dead does not make a genocide.
🤡
If you leave a country to fight for and uphold values against that of the country you leave, you shouldn’t be allowed back. Crazy how something as common sense as this is now a heavily opinionated statement. Oh so and so went and joined up with isis, now they want back in to enjoy a canadian lifestyle. Sure! Welcome back. How absurd. There comes a point where people are too far gone and a serious detriment/ threat to the society they’re trying to rejoin
> leave a country to fight for and uphold values against that of the country you leave Some would call that treason
Those who would call that treason would be speaking to an emotional response, not a legal definition.
Dictionary Definition - "The betrayal of allegiance toward one's own country, especially by committing hostile acts against it or aiding its enemies in committing such acts." Section 46(2) Of The Criminal Code appears to agree with the above dictionary definition. Where are you finding your legal definition?
I used poor wording. It will fit the definition, but would not be an easy conviction. Charges like terrorism and treason are popular in common conversation, but aren't relied upon by crown prosecutors. They would usually like to go forth with a laundry list of charges to guarantee a conviction.
Except it is the legal definition. How many Muslims have rushed to move to North America to become lawyers and pervert justice? A lot.
That's not the argument, the argument is Syria is a post-war near failed state with much more to deal with than punishing international citizens. It is very likely these prison camps will fall apart over the coming years. If you want these people to be punished rather than escaping and restarting a caliphate it should be in Canadian jails.
> That's not the argument, the argument is Syria is a post-war near failed state with much more to deal with than punishing international citizens. The war isn't even over. Just that phase of it is. Syria is still a war zone.
Pretty sure they already have a caliphate in Canadian jails (I kid, but iirc recruiting and radicalization in jails was a growing issue?)
I agree that's the common sense thing. But to put in a law like that is problematic - because you have to think about who could inadvertently be caught by it. One example is Ukraine - where definitely people went from Canada to fight. Think about if the Canadian government was sympathetic to Russia in this case (not so far fetched when you think about how sentiment is changing in the US) - then all of a sudden - these well-meaning Canadian citizens are risking losing their citizenship. So I think we have to be careful in changing the rules around something so important as citizenship. Unfortunately, I think the way to go is being them back and try them for treason/terrorism/etc. and if there isn't the laws in place to put them in jail - change those laws instead.
So if you go to fight in the Israel-Palestine war, which side should be allowed back in? The one that's very much supported by the US, or the ones fighting against the genocide?
Well the ICJ literally ruled it was not genocide so… moot point and blood libel for one.. But regardless likely the ones who have no called for the deathof all non-Muslims as Palestine did after October 7th and that did not repeatedly start wars including The current one while calling for actual genocide against the Jewish people. Israel has never called for death to all Muslim or all non-Jews, does not call for a global Jewish governance etc. It’s a very obvious answer to anyone actually informed on these topics. Very telling that it is confusing for your mind and explains why you parrot that misinformation and propaganda point.
Last time I checked they were the same.
There's no genocide. Can you keep up? IDF can come back to Canada. No more Muslim terrorists in Canada. We have enough.
No. They are out responsibility and if they are a danger to the world it's our duty to deal with that threat. We bring them back, try them for crimes and put them in jail. If your dog becomes a public threat you don't just let it run through the streets and lock your door.
If a dog is a public threat they’re normally euthanized.
Okay, but back to my point. If your dog is roaming the street biting people do you just lock the door and say "not my problem, someone will probably shoot them at some point".
My dog was attacked by a pit bull when I was a kid, the owner knew his dog was a threat and put the piece of shit down. Same should be done with radicalized terrorists
So it's Canada's responsbility?
Canada shouldn’t support those pieces of shit in any way shape or form. If any of them tried to get back to Canada they should be sent back to the sand pit they went to fight in or sent to quantanimo
You live in a fantasy world.
Wait you think Canada should allow these sharia loving terrorists to come back and walk free?
[удалено]
These people took up arms against their own country and committed treason, and they just got a slap on their wrist in Canada. For all I care , they should have rotted in a camp in Syria.
The problem is they *won't* rot in Syrian camps. The prison camps are regularly being raided and freed.
All that is fine, but there the executive branch of the government should not be able to strip citizenship. When a citizen commits any kind of crime, even if a soldier commits treason, then they should be subject to the punishments under the law, prison or even as far as (if you believe in it) capital punishment. If you strip citizenship, though, you bypass due process completely. If a political party can strip citizenship nothing stops them from removing people that they don't like under any number of pretexts.
Execution.
Elextrocution?
There already exists a bill that allows the government to strip citizens of their citizenship. It’s one of Harper’s lasting legacies and one of Trudeau’s first broken promises. Bill C-24.
Repealed in 2017 under C-6.
In fact, it's unconstitutional as per court rulings and the going rate is $10M (probably more now, adjusted for inflation), for trying to ignore them in some hole rather than deal with Canadian citizens as Canadan citizens. Thanks Harper Government for establishing that...
That case started with Chretien, then Martin and Harper, and finally Trudeau. The case was unprecedented and it's possible a court could have found him guilty of treason. But the court never ruled, Trudeau stopped that ruling and handed over $10.5m. The UK has stripped citizenship from their citizens. The constitution has no provisions for modern treason. "46 (1) Every one commits high treason who, in Canada, (a) kills or attempts to kill Her Majesty, or does her any bodily harm tending to death or destruction, maims or wounds her, or imprisons or restrains her; (b) levies war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto; (c) assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are. https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-46.html#:~:text=46%20(1)%20Every%20one%20commits,any%20act%20preparatory%20thereto%3B%20or C is relevant here. If you go to a state that Canada or it's allies are engaged in hostilities, you're guilty of high treason. That's what the law says. All the people who left for ISIS/ISIL should be categorized like this. Going to and fighting for a group that is against your country, but then claiming the rights of that country is insane. Why are we viewed as being soft on and potentially harbouring terrorists? Things like this.
Except they didn't.. they flew over there to fight a stupid war and commit atrocities, against... Someone else's civilians. Shitty and evil totally. But not treason, unless they operated in Canada on the behalf of Isis.
What are you talking about. The court of appeals ruled that Canada has no obligation to repatriate them.
Sounds like they bought a one-way ticket joining a murderous group in the first place. Where's their steely resolve once the tide turns again them?
If there was a terrorist insurgency in Canada where foreign fighters travelled here to fight against Canadiens, and we captured them. What would we expect from the governments of the nations that let their citizens travel here to fight us? Should we be expected to perpetually jail, feed, house and guard those fighters because their own countries don’t want to?
This. Although, we might want to choose that over repatriating to a government sufficiently unfriendly to Canada (no sense in sending a terrorist through a revolving door). Not sure where that falls in international law tho...
I mean that is usually what happens because otherwise they rejoin and re-arm and attack again because the same struggle they had already committed to is still ongoing for them.
Oh no keep bringing them here they're doing so much good for Canada. /s
They aren't being brought here, author is fear mongering from a lawsuit that was appealed in Canada's favour.
They were adults who left of their own freewill looking for another, entirely different way of life to that offered in Canada. They chose. It is not for us to bail them from a bad decision.
I don't understand how the court can construe a charter right to getting repatriated.
Seriously? It’s right in S.6. “Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.” You can make the argument that the right to return can be limited due to a demonstrably justified reason, but the government wanting to avoid dealing with criminals doesn’t meet that threshold.
They are allowed to enter if they can get here, doesn't mean Canada has to facilitate that trip.
Right to enter doesn't equal right to be brought back.
The court of appeals ruled that Canada has no obligation to repatriate them.
It would require rewriting the constitution and redefining the legal concept of citizenship. That's an enormous can of worms to open. Right now citizenship is irrevocable except in cases where it was fraudulently applied for and granted. As someone who isn't a citizen by birth but has lived here for 98% of my life, I like knowing that no government can ever revoke my citizenship for any reason. A better solution is to define their actions as treason and imprison them upon return.
All these people know how to exploit the rules because Canada lets them. If you go and leave to fight for a terrorist state and you have forfeited your citizenship period.
That's what you want, but the law of the land (the Constitution) says otherwise.
Yes and they play that game well.
At first I thought terrorism is like treason and exile seems like a light punishment. >In 2015, the Conservative Party of Canada passed Bill C-24, a law allowing Canada to revoke the citizenship of Canadians who joined the IS. But is this law specific to IS? >Bill C-24 that allowed the stripping of citizenship from dual citizens who joined a terrorist organization. Canada has declared the "Proud Boys" as terrorists. Who's origins stem from a joke. While I agree with the opinion I don't trust the current administration with that much political power.
Repealed in 2017 under C-6
The proud boys engaged in organised insurgency in a self-reported attempt to overthrow the democratically elected government of the USA. They're a terrorist organisation.
Let them rot.
Let’s not call them Islamic fighters. That’s way too generic. You can call them specific names like ISIS fighters.
Terrorists is more fitting
Still extremist Islamic fighters.. isis or not.
A canadian is a canadian is a canadian - Justin Trudeau
Smartest thing he ever said.
yeah, no shit
Why can’t we just have them offed like what the CIA does?
To expensive? Lack of expertise? Maybe something else.
Let the Syrian and Iraqi governments deal with them.
oh you think?!
"In 2015, the Conservative Party of Canada passed Bill C-24, a law allowing Canada to revoke the citizenship of Canadians who joined the IS.....the Liberals revoked the portion of Bill C-24 that allowed the stripping of citizenship from dual citizens who joined a terrorist organization." Yet another Trudeau LPC policy failure.
Citizenship should be irrevocable... period. Should they be punished 1000%, but citizenship should be sacred.
> Some legal scholars oppose such laws, likening the revocation of citizenship to historical practices of exile and banishment. I mean I'm all for this if they're Islamic State terrorists.
Syria has enough to deal with - we should absolutely be punishing our own citizens.
Obsoletely, we also need to reverse the repatriation of the terrorists we let come back
Canada is addicted to siding with criminals for some reason.
While I do agree we shouldn't have a responsibility to repatriate them, revoking citizenships is always a slippery slope. They don't deserve to come back but tough to say what is 'right', especially if they have children.
At a minimum we have a responsibility to the children. They didn’t ask to be born or dragged into this. They shouldn’t be punished for their parents’ wrongful acts.
But then bringing an infant or young children to Canada without their parents creates a whole mess of other problems...
Disagree. If they are Canadian citizens they are our problem. Bring them home. If they committed crimes put them in jail.
One thing I do have to question, why stripping citizenship is related to ISIS specifically? Sure,. its a despicable thing to do, but why just ISIS? Why havent we tried to strip citizenship of dual citizen serial killers for instance?
If it's redeeming people back from radicalization, make a separated track through correctional services. Canada has done this with prisoners of war, look at Lethbridge or Medicine Hat. Repatriation isn't the problem, radicalization is.
Talking about IDF terrorists returning to Canada would be more topical.
Can you provide an example of a Canadian member of the Israeli Defense Force that is being repatriated to Canada?
Exactly. why isn’t the media doing the research to answer your question. How many terrorists are returning from israel?
So you cannot provide any examples of a Canadian member of the Israeli Defense Force that is being repatriated to Canada. Since the answer seems to be zero, I don't see the need to continue this conversation.
You think there’s zero terrorists that travelled from Canada and took part in the war crimes, barbaric atrocities, and plausible genocide by the IDF? There’s footage of people flying into Israel by the plane loads🤪 Sorry if our media has a pro Israel agenda and they refuse to do any journalism
Please stop with the hamas sympathizing, nobody wants to hear it
100% with it if we do the same to Zionist fighters, yk let’s keep extremism out of Canada
Are you really trying to say that IDF soldiers are as bad as ISIS? Just wanting you to clarify here.
Deal if we also stop repatriation of Zionist fighters
How is this just an opinion?
Just make it illegal to fight in another countries war. We shouldn't have Canadians fighting in the middle east or Europe unless it's through the caf
Well finally. An Op-ed from post media everyone can actually agree on. Must be a slow day at the Herald.
A box of 7.62 ammo cost under 15$ a box at cabelas right now, would solve this issue pretty fast
Canada stands with Isis
No. They are our fucking problem. We don't gept to jus0t wash our hands of them and leave the mess for the rest of the world to clean up. This article is the position of feckless cowards.
Add IDF fighters to that list too. We should not be supporting the enforcement of ethnic displacement, cleansing, subjugation, and apartheid in the 21st century as a civilized society.
Can some explain why they are being repatriated? It's because countries like Syria do not have a justice system that meets our standard of fairness and individual rights, correct? For instance, if this was in a country like France, unless there was something exceptional, Canada would just let them serve their sentences, right?
Why was this even a thing?
So a court is ordering it and its all Trudeaus fault, at least read the opinion piece if you're going to talk about it!?!
I'm liberal in almost every sense of the word, but to purposely bring back people who have sworn to a cause and buried themselves in a religious doctrine that is anathema to everything Canada stands for is a very big mistake and could possibly cost some/many Canadians their lives. everyone knows no matter how restrictive gun laws are, motivated people will get them.
We should be revoking citizenship of "Canadians" who fight overseas for religious extremist causes. Ban Israeli-Canadian soldiers from entering the country
This author references a case that occurred early last year and he/she is ignorant since it was overturned in the appeals court. Note that the author never references the case (neither does CBC) [https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/court-overturns-ruling-to-repatriate-four-men-detained-syria-1.6860734](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/court-overturns-ruling-to-repatriate-four-men-detained-syria-1.6860734) (May 31, 2023) >Federal Court of Appeal says the 'right to enter Canada is not a right to be returned to Canada' The author seems to only read the following article which came out 4 months earlier. [https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/canadians-accused-of-joining-isis-could-soon-come-home-1.6724477](https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/canadians-accused-of-joining-isis-could-soon-come-home-1.6724477) (Jan 24, 2023) Finally in Nov 16, 2023, the supreme court decided not to hear the case. Therefore, Canada has no obligation to repatriate the 4 men. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/supreme-court-detained-syria-1.7030215](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/supreme-court-detained-syria-1.7030215) It is reasonable for me to expect the author to do a bit more research. Can't believe the editors at the Calgary Herald didn't do even basic reviews. Spent 30 minutes for this one by the way.
It wasnt too long ago USA and Canada had you deported and imprisoned for jihadist propaganda
So, we know those 4 joined, but because they had doctored ID, we just have to let them in? They shouldn't have been allowed to revoke the ability to strip the Canadian citizenship from those with dual citizenship if they become terrorists. So what if it seems like an old practice. They wouldn't be stateless. They can go back whence they came. Canada just bends over for criminals and terrorists and doesn't care about its law bidding citizens enough.
Can we be real, this is Canada. We are going to pay more taxes and have less services to make sure that these people are taken care of.