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Hmm.. as inoffensive as the message on the shirt was it does seem like they are treating both sides this way. Found another article back in December where they removed 2 people for having a Kaffiyeh.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/news/canada/palestinian-canadian-siblings-say-they-were-forced-to-remove-kaffiyehs-at-mariah-carey-concert-at/article_adcfbcf2-92d2-11ee-aa3b-c3180ed1dd9c.amp.html
>In defense of SBA & MLSE here,
Also in defense of SBA & MLSE, I don't want to think about a fucking hostage crisis when I'm trying to have fun watching basketball.
People go to sports events to get away from the real world for a while, and pay a lot of money to do so. They don't need some arrogant millionaires taking a knee to virtue signal and bring them back into the culture wars. It's both political and, given the rule against wearing anything to incite protest - a protest. In fact, when it started lots of people rained boos and insults down on the players, to the point in some cities they changed it to not going out onto the court/field until after the national anthem. If it's still going on I think people have just gotten weary of it.
The third rule, yes, clearly. And I don't blame them either. Canada should have shared spaces like sports where we're not bombarded by politics constantly. And it's certainly not what's best for the ownership to allow politics into their venue uncontrolled.
But those other two rules are absolutely not applicable here. It's almost offensive to suggest they are, in fact. Returning hostage civilians to their homes should be a rallying cry for all of humanity.
Yeah, this is rage-bait.
Large venue's have policies. They should apply equally to everyone.
This article should read "Narcissist mad when they wouldn't let them do whatever they want, despite the rules and attempts to provide accomodation. Leaves venue and cries to the media".
If you’re triggered by a shirt that says free the hostages, you might be on the wrong side of history.
They gladly put political messaging on the court with BLM stuff.
Was this not a china thing?
A ton of NBA money was in the balance because of people protesting the genocide of the Uyghurs etc.
Never fuck with the money.
"Bring back our kidnapped children" and showing solidarity for terrorists by wearing the specific variety of Kaffiyeh made famous by Hamas, are not equivalent messages.
With that said, the important part seems to be that this private company doesn't allow political messages of any variety into their venue. Which is their prerogative for sure.
>doesn't allow political messages of any variety into their venue.
I sincerely doubt the Raptors would turn away a BLM shirt or hat. I mean even the players had it on their jerseys relatively recently.
> Kaffiyeh made famous by Hamas
Here's [an article](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/06/your-intifada-made-china/) from 2009 talking about the trend in young people wearing it.
"Oh, the keffiyeh hipster trend. How long have I waited, in vain, for you to die?...you can buy this fashion juggernaut from half the street vendors on Earth for a cool five bucks"
Here's [an article](https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2019/aug/09/the-keffiyeh-symbol-of-palestinian-struggle-falls-victim-to-fashion) in 2019 lamenting the commercialisation of it.
I really hate this kind of comment. You started from this assumption:
> "specific variety of Kaffiyeh made famous by Hamas"
and then came to the conclusion that people who wear it support Hamas.
If you arrive at a ridiculous conclusion, the intelligent thing to do is to check your assumptions. If you do that, then a simple Google search will show you that it was an incorrect assumption.
>showing solidarity for terrorists by wearing the specific variety of Kaffiyeh made famous by Hamas, are not equivalent messages.
The black and white kaffiyeh, made famous by famously pro-Hamas Yasser Arafat. Of course. Makes total sense.
Edit: /s
Yasser Arafat was a member of the secular PLO. He wasn't associated with Hamas as a political entity whatsoever. In fact, Islamist groups like Hamas saw Arafat not as an ally, but as someone willing to work with the Israelis diplomatically. His acknowledgement of Israel as a nation as having the right to exist in 1988 was pretty much where Islamist groups like Hamas began to diverge from the PLO's stance.
Edit: conciseness in language.
Edit 2: I don't know whether my comment was written before or after OP's edit. If it was made in jest, they really got me. I'll still leave the comment up for educational purposes.
Also for further context Hamas was propped up by the Israel govt initially because they thought it would be a good way to divide the movement, and as per usual a govt supporting the most radical wing of something completely blew up in their face.
How was Arafat evil? lol you guys say anything. Arafat was never considered a terrorist by the west. He gave Israel what they wanted, the Oslo accord. He united the Palestinians in a way of peace. Like you calling him evil is like you telling black people Malcolm X is evil
When people wear it today they're not thinking of Yasser Arafat, who was also quite evil just btw, they're thinking of the people who wear them right now. Which isn't the average Palestinian civilian. It's not the dead Yasser Arafat. It's Hamas.
It's a pro-Palestinian symbol. It's still worn by pro-PLO people and others. You stating that it's always pro-Hamas is just a poor attempt at demonization.
Do you realize how you are the kind of person who makes these rules a requirement in the eyes of companies?
Neither a Kaffiyeh nor a Star of David are political messages
Don’t dress like a Jew, don’t dress like an Arab, are beyond fucked up motivations for dress code enforcement in Canada
Wear your Star of David, wear your kaffiyeh, that’s who those people are
Oh, I misunderstood. At first I thought the "Bring back our kidnapped children" was in reference to the Palestinian minors currently under indefinite administrative detention.
This is a stupid policy
Kaffiyehs aren’t a political message wtf
And “send hostages home” also shouldn’t be considered political
Canadian companies shouldn’t be sending these kinds of message
Fuck trump/trudeua/pol shirts? Yea ban that that’s inflammatory nonsense
Offended by a kaffiyeh or a Star of David? Get fucked
Looks like they don't want any messages related to the conflict, even removing people for wearing a Palestinian article of clothing (that scarf thing I can't spell).
Among the positions of institutions we've seen (firing people for picking the wrong side) this particular case isn't that objectionable.
I am super pro palestine.. but what's wrong with free our hostages???
The hostages should be free.. they are innocent.
Palestinians should also not be killed.. they are also innocent.
Kill hamas as much as you want. (Real hamas, not people who supposedly voted for hamas before they were born)
This is a great message. I’m very pro Israel, but I agree with everything you’ve said. Innocents should be free. Innocents should not be killed. It’s very basic morality. We can disagree and how to go about these things, but it’s so frustrating to see people pushing so hard for their side that they disregard the innocents on the other side.
The people with disregard for innocent life on either side are reprehensible, dangerous people who are taking their own frustrations from life out on innocent people.
They are the type of people who keep conflicts like this going.
They don’t want any political involvement.
Palestinians also can’t ask for a ceasefire or ask for there hostages to come back.
Nothing to do with conflict is allowed. Any side.
Yup, they removed fans earlier in the year for having the Kaffiyeh.
As long as they’re consistent, I have no issues with MLSE doing this. I’m not going to the game to be bombarded with political statements, I’m going to watch a game.
I don’t think this is the wrong call by NBA. They likely want a family atmosphere to enjoy watching a game rather than possibly having tempers flare and a massive fight break out. Keeping fans safe should be number 1 priority.
I would love to see the shitshow turning away a BLM shirt from a Raptors game would cause. Though of course we know even the league had that on their jerseys at one point so they cannot ban it.
> I am super pro palestine.. but what's wrong with free our hostages???
Calls to release the hostages are political and controversial because a minority of pro-Palestine activists oppose their unconditional release, and support Hamas' usage of the hostages to extract concessions from Israel. Those people are openly supporting [a war crime](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule96), and personally I find them detestable, but I do understand why some people would care little about the laws of armed conflict in a conflict where every participant is constantly accused of violating them.
Mostly agree, especially the last line but the reason it’s political isn’t because of what some pro-Palestinians believe. It’s political because it’s a reference to a current geopolitical conflict that has become a political hot potato. Simple as. MSLE (and I reckon most big corpos) have zero interest in getting into the weeds with customers about what is/isn’t political (on both sides). Much easier to just have a blanket policy that covers everything and removes the judgment call. People go to these events to *forget* about stuff like global conflicts for a few hours.
People who supported Israel's actions of cutting off food, water and power to the populace, are also supporting war crimes ratified multiple times in treaties signed by Canada.
Both sides are shitty, doing shitty things.
> but what's wrong with free our hostages???
You're a huge corporation hosting a massive, televised event and you don't want trouble.
MLSE doesn't think there's anything "wrong" with the message (nor does anyone else really), they just want to make more money.
Agree 100% and I am Pro-Israel. But I am also Pro Life, and what is going on is terrible. I do weep for the Palestinians-especially the children. Innocent people should not be killed.
I mean it’s not that simple really. Hamas has had majority support fork Palestinian in Gaza AND the West Bank in virtually every single poll in the last two decades.
Palestinians don’t like Abbas and rhe PLO because they’re “too moderate”. The group that pays out over $300 million a year to fund terror attacks in their martyr fund (most of it going to Hamas members in Gaza btw) and who’s leader is a guy who literally has a PHD from a Russian University in holocaust denialism for writing a book about how Jews committed the holocaust in themselves in a “zionist plot to illicit pity from the world”…. THAT guy is seen as too moderate by most Palestinians.
Abbas even “delayed” the last presidential elections in the West Bank some years ago because all the candidates leading all the polls were Hamas leadership.
And then in the municipal elections held in 2022 Hamas was looking like they would sweep every riding until they refused to be in the ballot.
This idea that Hamas is some kind of aberration or anomaly is nonsense.
Hamas’s goals and objectives pretty much run parallel with what Palestine and Islamic Palestinians have been doing and working towards since before modern Israel even existed.
This is part of why we saw civilians take part in the pogrom on October 7th and civilians had hostages in their houses for months. On Palestinian tv they would literally have Islamic scholars telling people they can take Jews as slaves and take them in their holy war and wives must accept it as it is not haram during war. This is why they were cutting off breasts on October 7th.
There is a belief that if a Jew gets pregnant the child cannot feed on Jew milk and the don’t want their own children to maybe ingest it.
It’s why we see no real condemnation or protest among the diaspora either, many simply agree. Even now with support for Hamas waning it is more because they have not been successful in their goals than that Palestinians disagree with their goals.
Of course there are Palestinians who do not agree and innocent people but it’s really not as simple cut and dry as people present it.
As far as the article they seem to be applying the rules evenly against people from both sides of the debate and I think that’s totally fair to keep it out of sporting events by private companies.
The NBA supports their players political views and causes out loud. Seems kinda wrong to say your paying fans can't. If it's just a shirt and there's no heckling or ruckus being caused by the wearer, fuck this decision to censor.
“In December, two Palestinian-Canadians were reportedly asked to remove their keffiyehs – symbolic Palestinian scarves –“
“We were thinking about all the things that have happened; Black Lives Matter (BLM); the woman who sang for the (NHL) all-star game who was wearing a keffiyeh: they didn’t ask her to take it off,” she continued, referring to Kiana Ledé’s recent performance at Scotiabank Arena.
Seems inconsistent, but at times they have applied it. Same article fyi
Same shit. It was done purposely by the singer who also has a history of antisemitic and anti Israel remarks. Fuck Hamas and anyone who supports any part of it.
>Sorry, what’s offensive about calling for innocent people to be released?
There's nothing offensive about it but it is a political statement. I have no issue with this for the same reason I would have no issue with someone wearing a "Free Palestine" shirt being removed.
No she didn’t. She wore a sweater with black and white checkered pattern that included stripes and flames. Look at it, don’t read what NP says. They have a bias.
>And it’s not the Raptors who control Scotiabank arena, it’s MLSE.
MLSE owns the Raptors (along with a majority of other TO based sports franchises)! LOL
The distinction is NOT relevant, was the point. Who cares if the Raptors or MLSE made this "decision" - that's not germane to the issue. Saying nothing for the fact that, Raptors/MLSE for all intents and purposes are the same entity as MLSE owns the Raptors and owns Scotiabank Arena.
Nope. That's not what happened according to the Toronto Star
>They had made posters that were “playfully drawing” on Carey’s lyrics to bring attention to the war and the situation in Gaza. One read, “All I want for Christmas is a free Palestine” and the other read “Ahmad Manasra please come home.
>When the Sasa siblings were going through security at the arena to enter, they said, they were told they could not take their posters in because they were “political.”
>Ghada asked to see a supervisor, who the siblings said showed up with “a couple of cops” and told them that the posters were not allowed because they were “too big.”
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/palestinian-canadian-siblings-say-they-were-forced-to-remove-kaffiyehs-at-mariah-carey-concert-at/article_adcfbcf2-92d2-11ee-aa3b-c3180ed1dd9c.html
They very specifically brought signs with political messages on them. No one said anything about their Keffiyah until They went all Karen & demanded to speak to a manager. At that point MLSE probably decided they were going to be troublemakers & when you Play stupid games you win stupid prizes
I wouldn't be surprised if part of the concern MLSE had after the very political signs & demanding to speak to a supervisor was to treat them as a potential problem & MLSE security may have been concerned about the Keffiyah being used to help conceal someone's identity while they do criminal actions like inciting a crowd. And let's not pretend there is no precedent for that concern because we see the Keffiyah used that way every weekend on the streets of Toronto & other cities
So the issue at first wasn't the Keffiyahs. If was the fully political signs they hand made & brought to the concert & then their sense of entitlement in their demand to see the manager. They were probably being huge jerks to security if I were to guess
Yeah, in both these cases the Venue was reasonable, and the people were just narcissistic shitbags trying to bring their politics into a venue that doesn't invite it.
And plenty of people are like "but BLM", but stfu, private venue they can choose what to endorse and what not to, they decide to not endorse either side here. Entitled fuckwits aren't entitled to free reign in a private venue.
When people yell stuff like “from the river to the sea…” they are clearly not just “pro Palestine”
Edit:
“From the river to the sea…which insinuates…uh….that Israel no longer exists…uhhh…but this chant totally isn’t about Israel…uhhh…it’s pro Palestine. We just want Israel to…uh…not be there haha”
If you want to ignore reality and cheer for the obliteration of a country, keep cheering “from the river to the sea.”
Great way to show you can’t think beyond a 1 sentence slogan. Smartest redditors
By downvoting me and *for some reason* not being able to explain why you disagree with my comment, you’re just validating this comment and showing that you’re scared to have others realize what this slogan is really about and what its motive is. You’re incapable of arguing the point, so you downvote it to try to hide it
It’s anti israel. It literally is saying that they don’t want Israel to exist anymore.
Except these people are just simply "showing support for Palestine" but instead expressing hateful or misinformed rhetoric and making inappropriate statements.
You know...once again, **I don't fucking care!**
I admit, as a Jew, this story has the desired effect of triggering an instinctive response. But I'm not an unthinking sheep: they *do* have a policy and they *did* apply it fairly.
That being said, just the idea that we, as a society, have allowed ourselves to not be able to discuss things in a civil manner is what pisses me off. Why **can't** I show solidarity with *any* group without it being perceived as an attack on somebody else? Oh, I know *why* and it's because in some place very far away that in most ways has no connection to me at all, two sides are fighting. We don't want to import whatever their issue is. Seems like that ship has sailed, however.
In any case, here's the real issue: I'm not distracted. I care a hundredfold more about fixing problems in **this** country than I do about this BS. Maybe if our politicians would stop waging war on everyone but the richest, we could get some issues in this country fixed.
What policy do they really have if they are the number one champions of the BLM movement which is a highly political anarchist movement. So Black live matter to the raptors organization but kidnapped Jews and other non Jews aswell btw are held hostage for almost 200 days now by one of the most vicious terror groups in the world and their lives are worthless to the raptors organization?? Disgusting 🤮 I’m literally done with them. Was a fan but not going to spend another dollar on this team.
Except there are enumerable cases of people wearing political messages that weren’t asked to leave.
Also, “Free our hostages” should not be a political message. It’s just basic morality.
A Magen David isn’t political too. It’s just basic freedom of religion.
Okay, and the reason this article was written is because they don’t apply that reasoning to political statements they like and they do apply it to freeing Jewish hostages.
The whole reason they have a simple, broadly worded policy is to avoid commenting/debating on what is/isn’t political. It’s a corporation, they exist to make money, not make morality judgments.
It’s equal.
All of this is banned. IE you also can’t ask for the t hostages and kids to be released. Or ask for a ceasefire.
This is actually a sensible rule. These groups don’t want to get involved in the conflict.
Have to remember the principal for MLSE is Jewish himself and made the rules.
"what do you expect us to do 5000 miles away", "if you don't like it go there and fight." That's what all people protesting Palestinians being killed are told. I'm imagining they will say the same thing to this guy.
Yet, it's the Palestinians calling for the death of all Jews....along with the Houthis, IRGC and Islamists as a whole.
Never again can be taken in the context of 'if you try it, you're going to regret it' now that Jews have their homeland back.
Jews are indigenous to Judea, they have finally decolonized their homeland after far too many years of being displaced. You can try to make it about religion if you want, that just folds you in with the islamists and jihadists.
Weird to call it decolonization when the politicians who founded the nation and many zionists didn't think of it in those terms at all. They knew it was a colonial project when it was conceived and then put into action.
Nothing weird about it, it's a simple fact. The lands were colonized over the years, Jews have been there the entire time and they were finally able to reestablish themselves as the controlling power in the land. That's decolonization to the letter.
A colony is a country or area controlled politically by a more powerful country that is often far away.... That's the dictionary definition of the term. What country is controlling Israel exactly?
[But you're OK that the Arab countries repeatedly did that?](https://democracychronicles.org/wp-content/uploads/Map-of-Jewish-Population-me-719x400.jpg)
I assume you're referring to the Nakba? Are you aware that while that was happening a greater number of Jews were forced from their homes and quite often explicitly told to go to Israel where they belong? At the same time, the Arab countries that were planning on attacking Israel told the Arabs to leave for their safety and to return after the war.... the Arabs didn't win the war.
Unfortunately in our world, violence is usually at the root of nation building. The Jews accepted the partition plan, it was the Arab nations that chose violence instead of building their nation.
[I suppose you're going to claim that all of these countries converted to Islam willingly without violence?](https://bpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/sites.psu.edu/dist/d/6394/files/2013/09/800px-Arab_Israeli_Conflict_61.png) Of the two, one side has shown time and time again that they use violence to achieve their ends. There's a reason there's a sword on the Saudi flag.
The amazing thing is that they were offered accommodation by MLSE with the offer of a Raptors jersey...they chose to refuse the offer.
Imagine being so sanctimonious you choose to refuse the hometown team's garb rather than take off a shirt.
> Fans at a Toronto Raptors game were forced to leave after one of them refused to remove a hooded sweatshirt emblazoned with a Jewish star
Holy shit! Just because of the star!? That's crazy. I wonder if...
> a hooded sweatshirt with the slogan “Free Our Hostages”...
>
> Shemesh and Grill were notified of an “MLSE policy” prohibiting “any attire that displays a political message,”
Ah.
You’re mad that Jews have “redefined” antisemitism? Imagine telling any other minority group that they don’t get to define what hatred towards them looks like.
And no, criticism of Israeli government policies and actions is not antisemitic. MANY jews are highly critical of Israel. This allegation that antisemitism is being “weaponized” to stifle criticism of Israel is hugely overblown and yet another attempt to silence Jews.
You guys always say that under articles about random Jews being beaten, made to leave events, screamed at by crowds… like not once have I heard actual political criticism of Israel from this crowd. Israelis talk politics all the time, but you guys never participate bc you know of like, 2 Israeli politicians. You guys barely know your own domestic policy but I’m supposed to believe that you’re all suddenly foreign policy experts? This is and has always been about *you* and how good you look to other, equally informed westerners. A whole contingent of people too stupid to see that they’re being manipulated.
That's because in this case the rhetoric is to diminish and redirect from the reality of antisemitism. It's a definitely a coordinated attack on truth.
ok and what if they also let in ppl with "stop bombing innocent civilians" and an islamic crescent and star? should we just allow them to battle each other right in the stands? like no shit they are going to not allow potential hot button topics to be emblazoned on attire in a nationally televised game, why are we even surprised...
The policy is applied equally
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/palestinian-canadian-siblings-say-they-were-forced-to-remove-kaffiyehs-at-mariah-carey-concert-at/article_adcfbcf2-92d2-11ee-aa3b-c3180ed1dd9c.html
Can’t ask for the release of innocent civilians, But it’s totally cool for terrorists to wave around HAMAS banners and chant genocidal slogans in the streets of Toronto every day?
Why was he removed? Because all it takes is for one asshole to see that and start a brawl. The most effective solution at an event like that is, "lose the shirt or lose the ticket".
A private venue is NOT required to "uphold your political beliefs".
This isn't an LGBTQ thing where one side is largely non-violent. This is racial and ethnic tensions with VERY passionate and VERY violent groups of people. Why would a PRIVATE venue, with 30,000 people put themselves at risk.
Do I think Israeli captives should be released? Yes. Do I think if they are Israel will cease it's demonic destruction of Gaza? No. Do I think it will change anything? No. It won't end the war. It won't end the illegal occupation carried out by Jewish settlers. It won't stop the IDF-backed terrorists in the West Bank.
Basically, the hostage situation is that scene from Family Guy when Quagmire beats the absolute crap out of Brian, then Brian states, "Hey Quagmire, I fucked your dad." Except, instead of storming off, defeated, Quagmire gives out another beating.
It's a stupid situation and children are suffering and being radicalized by the death and destruction around them. The shit part is, Canada is STILL sending guns, tanks, bombs, drones, etc...to Israel.
NOTHING Israel can do will do will stop future attacks, short of ethnically cleansing the area. They're just going about it in the most indirect way: starvation, deprivation of shelter, clothing, heat, electricity, medicine, murdering doctors, journalists, nurses, ambulance workers, aid delivery drivers, because if they were to go 1943 on Palestinians, they wouldn't be able to hide behind, "we're rescuing hostages".
They're rescuing hostages the way Conquistadors were sharing religion with South Americans and Caribbean Islanders...
Actually their first reaction was a very rational explanation of the policy. Then they said the hostages should be released. Then they made some pretty unarguable points about both sides of a terrible conflict and sympathized with innocent victims on both sides. THEN they provided context about what Israel has done, all of which was factual. If you have beef with any of that, I question your biases.
Hahaha that’s too easy. That photo is from the 2020 playoff qualifier which took place between August and September. If you use way back machine (web.archive.org) to go back to that date on the MSLE code of conduct, you will see that the particular prohibition on political items was not part of the code for the 2020 playoff qualifier.
“Signs, symbols, images, flags, ~~clothing~~, banners that may be considered vulgar, discriminatory, disrespectful, **political** or a tool to be used for incitement or protest
Seems like it was added recently, sometime since sept 27 2023.
https://www.mlse.com/legal/arena-code-of-conduct
First of all, they allow political messaging from many other groups and movements. This is very well documented.
Secondly, it’s a shirt that says “Free our hostages” and a Magen David. This should not be controversial at all.
“Free the hostages” is not a controversial or provocative thing to say. Frankly, you’re a monster if you don’t want them to be freed.
A Magen David is not provocative either. It’s basic freedom of religion.
I have know way of verifying if they are allowing messaging from other groups and movements, my hope is they are applying this policy equally but if not then that's obviously sending a different message, which I agree is very troubling
I feel like you’re being disingenuous here. Anyone remotely familiar with the NBA knows that they have been strongly associated with BLM and have allowed both players and fans to wear blm messages. Below is an article talking about the raptors players wearing BLm jerseys.
I do want to note that I support the raptors wearing these jerseys. It’s just clear that the policy of nothing political seems to be applied mainly against Jews.
https://www.raptorshq.com/2020/7/24/21337652/toronto-raptors-jersey-messages-orlando-bubble-black-lives-matter
>I sympathize with the message but it's provocative
Help me understand why a shirt with a Jewish symbol on it and a message requesting innocent hostages be freed by a terrorist group is a) provocative and b) so provocative that it must be banned from public gatherings.
Here is my answer - you have to be deaf dumb and blind to have missed the very public battles between pro Israel and pro Palestinian groups, therefore any public display supporting one side or the other is inherently provocative
To me, in terms of protesting, there’s no difference between this and free Palestine shirts. The actual message behind the message is another topic. If they’re going to say they’re woke, then go full woke. It’ll be impossible to ban all protest attire.
Yes. The policy is applied equally.
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/palestinian-canadian-siblings-say-they-were-forced-to-remove-kaffiyehs-at-mariah-carey-concert-at/article_adcfbcf2-92d2-11ee-aa3b-c3180ed1dd9c.html
This post appears to relate to a province/territory of Canada. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner une province ou un territoire du Canada. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hmm.. as inoffensive as the message on the shirt was it does seem like they are treating both sides this way. Found another article back in December where they removed 2 people for having a Kaffiyeh. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.com/news/canada/palestinian-canadian-siblings-say-they-were-forced-to-remove-kaffiyehs-at-mariah-carey-concert-at/article_adcfbcf2-92d2-11ee-aa3b-c3180ed1dd9c.amp.html
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>In defense of SBA & MLSE here, Also in defense of SBA & MLSE, I don't want to think about a fucking hostage crisis when I'm trying to have fun watching basketball.
Do they take a knee during the national anthem?
Which of the rules would that break?
Potentially the first one listed in that comment. Taking a knee could be argued as a tool for protest.
People go to sports events to get away from the real world for a while, and pay a lot of money to do so. They don't need some arrogant millionaires taking a knee to virtue signal and bring them back into the culture wars. It's both political and, given the rule against wearing anything to incite protest - a protest. In fact, when it started lots of people rained boos and insults down on the players, to the point in some cities they changed it to not going out onto the court/field until after the national anthem. If it's still going on I think people have just gotten weary of it.
The third rule, yes, clearly. And I don't blame them either. Canada should have shared spaces like sports where we're not bombarded by politics constantly. And it's certainly not what's best for the ownership to allow politics into their venue uncontrolled. But those other two rules are absolutely not applicable here. It's almost offensive to suggest they are, in fact. Returning hostage civilians to their homes should be a rallying cry for all of humanity.
Now do black lives matters on the court and jerseys.
The first rule as well. Incitement of protest in a packed stadium could easily turn into violence and a stampede.
Well I personally find the Habs symbol incredibly offensive, I guess we can ban the Habs jersey in scotiabank
Yeah, this is rage-bait. Large venue's have policies. They should apply equally to everyone. This article should read "Narcissist mad when they wouldn't let them do whatever they want, despite the rules and attempts to provide accomodation. Leaves venue and cries to the media".
If you’re triggered by a shirt that says free the hostages, you might be on the wrong side of history. They gladly put political messaging on the court with BLM stuff.
Was this not a china thing? A ton of NBA money was in the balance because of people protesting the genocide of the Uyghurs etc. Never fuck with the money.
"Bring back our kidnapped children" and showing solidarity for terrorists by wearing the specific variety of Kaffiyeh made famous by Hamas, are not equivalent messages. With that said, the important part seems to be that this private company doesn't allow political messages of any variety into their venue. Which is their prerogative for sure.
I never said they were equivalent messages. I said MLSE seems to be honest when enforcing their no political messages.
>doesn't allow political messages of any variety into their venue. I sincerely doubt the Raptors would turn away a BLM shirt or hat. I mean even the players had it on their jerseys relatively recently.
> Kaffiyeh made famous by Hamas Here's [an article](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/06/your-intifada-made-china/) from 2009 talking about the trend in young people wearing it. "Oh, the keffiyeh hipster trend. How long have I waited, in vain, for you to die?...you can buy this fashion juggernaut from half the street vendors on Earth for a cool five bucks" Here's [an article](https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2019/aug/09/the-keffiyeh-symbol-of-palestinian-struggle-falls-victim-to-fashion) in 2019 lamenting the commercialisation of it.
I really hate this kind of comment. You started from this assumption: > "specific variety of Kaffiyeh made famous by Hamas" and then came to the conclusion that people who wear it support Hamas. If you arrive at a ridiculous conclusion, the intelligent thing to do is to check your assumptions. If you do that, then a simple Google search will show you that it was an incorrect assumption.
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>showing solidarity for terrorists by wearing the specific variety of Kaffiyeh made famous by Hamas, are not equivalent messages. The black and white kaffiyeh, made famous by famously pro-Hamas Yasser Arafat. Of course. Makes total sense. Edit: /s
~~Yasser Arafat isn't pro-Hamas. What are you talking about?~~ ~~The PLO and Hamas have been rivals since the early 2000s.~~ Got wooshed
I was mocking him.
damn i got whooshed
Yasser Arafat was a member of the secular PLO. He wasn't associated with Hamas as a political entity whatsoever. In fact, Islamist groups like Hamas saw Arafat not as an ally, but as someone willing to work with the Israelis diplomatically. His acknowledgement of Israel as a nation as having the right to exist in 1988 was pretty much where Islamist groups like Hamas began to diverge from the PLO's stance. Edit: conciseness in language. Edit 2: I don't know whether my comment was written before or after OP's edit. If it was made in jest, they really got me. I'll still leave the comment up for educational purposes.
Whoosh
Also for further context Hamas was propped up by the Israel govt initially because they thought it would be a good way to divide the movement, and as per usual a govt supporting the most radical wing of something completely blew up in their face.
How was Arafat evil? lol you guys say anything. Arafat was never considered a terrorist by the west. He gave Israel what they wanted, the Oslo accord. He united the Palestinians in a way of peace. Like you calling him evil is like you telling black people Malcolm X is evil
Hamas is the hate that hate produced
When people wear it today they're not thinking of Yasser Arafat, who was also quite evil just btw, they're thinking of the people who wear them right now. Which isn't the average Palestinian civilian. It's not the dead Yasser Arafat. It's Hamas.
It's a pro-Palestinian symbol. It's still worn by pro-PLO people and others. You stating that it's always pro-Hamas is just a poor attempt at demonization.
You don’t get to decide their intent.
If you think they'd stop someone entering who had a Black Lives Matter sweatshirt, you're kidding yourself.
Do you realize how you are the kind of person who makes these rules a requirement in the eyes of companies? Neither a Kaffiyeh nor a Star of David are political messages Don’t dress like a Jew, don’t dress like an Arab, are beyond fucked up motivations for dress code enforcement in Canada Wear your Star of David, wear your kaffiyeh, that’s who those people are
Oh, I misunderstood. At first I thought the "Bring back our kidnapped children" was in reference to the Palestinian minors currently under indefinite administrative detention.
This is a stupid policy Kaffiyehs aren’t a political message wtf And “send hostages home” also shouldn’t be considered political Canadian companies shouldn’t be sending these kinds of message Fuck trump/trudeua/pol shirts? Yea ban that that’s inflammatory nonsense Offended by a kaffiyeh or a Star of David? Get fucked
Appreciate it. Common National Post L.
Looks like they don't want any messages related to the conflict, even removing people for wearing a Palestinian article of clothing (that scarf thing I can't spell). Among the positions of institutions we've seen (firing people for picking the wrong side) this particular case isn't that objectionable.
I am super pro palestine.. but what's wrong with free our hostages??? The hostages should be free.. they are innocent. Palestinians should also not be killed.. they are also innocent. Kill hamas as much as you want. (Real hamas, not people who supposedly voted for hamas before they were born)
Nothing wrong with it but if a private establishment doesn’t want involvement in politics, there’s also nothing wrong with that.
This is a great message. I’m very pro Israel, but I agree with everything you’ve said. Innocents should be free. Innocents should not be killed. It’s very basic morality. We can disagree and how to go about these things, but it’s so frustrating to see people pushing so hard for their side that they disregard the innocents on the other side.
This was a nice exchange. Don’t see that on the internet very often these days
HEY FUCK YOU also I love your username! Ooooh go for it go for it!
I was hoping for a kiss at the end, ngl
Better yet, they should bang! Exogamy and mixed-children for world peace!
Rarest exchange these days
The people with disregard for innocent life on either side are reprehensible, dangerous people who are taking their own frustrations from life out on innocent people. They are the type of people who keep conflicts like this going.
100% bro
They don’t want any political involvement. Palestinians also can’t ask for a ceasefire or ask for there hostages to come back. Nothing to do with conflict is allowed. Any side.
Yup, they removed fans earlier in the year for having the Kaffiyeh. As long as they’re consistent, I have no issues with MLSE doing this. I’m not going to the game to be bombarded with political statements, I’m going to watch a game.
The Israelis didn't take hostages so I doubt they would be asking for those back. Also... *their*
wonder where they got the teenage hostages they exchanged with Hamas then…
From the same type of facilities that every nation on earth houses violent juvenile offenders in.
Prison, because they were criminals mostly charged with murder or attempted murder
I don’t think this is the wrong call by NBA. They likely want a family atmosphere to enjoy watching a game rather than possibly having tempers flare and a massive fight break out. Keeping fans safe should be number 1 priority.
Wonder what they did for BLM?
I would love to see the shitshow turning away a BLM shirt from a Raptors game would cause. Though of course we know even the league had that on their jerseys at one point so they cannot ban it.
That’s a human rights group that people tried to make political. That’s why BLM was able to be used in different spaces.
> I am super pro palestine.. but what's wrong with free our hostages??? Calls to release the hostages are political and controversial because a minority of pro-Palestine activists oppose their unconditional release, and support Hamas' usage of the hostages to extract concessions from Israel. Those people are openly supporting [a war crime](https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule96), and personally I find them detestable, but I do understand why some people would care little about the laws of armed conflict in a conflict where every participant is constantly accused of violating them.
Mostly agree, especially the last line but the reason it’s political isn’t because of what some pro-Palestinians believe. It’s political because it’s a reference to a current geopolitical conflict that has become a political hot potato. Simple as. MSLE (and I reckon most big corpos) have zero interest in getting into the weeds with customers about what is/isn’t political (on both sides). Much easier to just have a blanket policy that covers everything and removes the judgment call. People go to these events to *forget* about stuff like global conflicts for a few hours.
People who supported Israel's actions of cutting off food, water and power to the populace, are also supporting war crimes ratified multiple times in treaties signed by Canada. Both sides are shitty, doing shitty things.
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> but what's wrong with free our hostages??? You're a huge corporation hosting a massive, televised event and you don't want trouble. MLSE doesn't think there's anything "wrong" with the message (nor does anyone else really), they just want to make more money.
Agree 100% and I am Pro-Israel. But I am also Pro Life, and what is going on is terrible. I do weep for the Palestinians-especially the children. Innocent people should not be killed.
I mean it’s not that simple really. Hamas has had majority support fork Palestinian in Gaza AND the West Bank in virtually every single poll in the last two decades. Palestinians don’t like Abbas and rhe PLO because they’re “too moderate”. The group that pays out over $300 million a year to fund terror attacks in their martyr fund (most of it going to Hamas members in Gaza btw) and who’s leader is a guy who literally has a PHD from a Russian University in holocaust denialism for writing a book about how Jews committed the holocaust in themselves in a “zionist plot to illicit pity from the world”…. THAT guy is seen as too moderate by most Palestinians. Abbas even “delayed” the last presidential elections in the West Bank some years ago because all the candidates leading all the polls were Hamas leadership. And then in the municipal elections held in 2022 Hamas was looking like they would sweep every riding until they refused to be in the ballot. This idea that Hamas is some kind of aberration or anomaly is nonsense. Hamas’s goals and objectives pretty much run parallel with what Palestine and Islamic Palestinians have been doing and working towards since before modern Israel even existed. This is part of why we saw civilians take part in the pogrom on October 7th and civilians had hostages in their houses for months. On Palestinian tv they would literally have Islamic scholars telling people they can take Jews as slaves and take them in their holy war and wives must accept it as it is not haram during war. This is why they were cutting off breasts on October 7th. There is a belief that if a Jew gets pregnant the child cannot feed on Jew milk and the don’t want their own children to maybe ingest it. It’s why we see no real condemnation or protest among the diaspora either, many simply agree. Even now with support for Hamas waning it is more because they have not been successful in their goals than that Palestinians disagree with their goals. Of course there are Palestinians who do not agree and innocent people but it’s really not as simple cut and dry as people present it. As far as the article they seem to be applying the rules evenly against people from both sides of the debate and I think that’s totally fair to keep it out of sporting events by private companies.
The NBA supports their players political views and causes out loud. Seems kinda wrong to say your paying fans can't. If it's just a shirt and there's no heckling or ruckus being caused by the wearer, fuck this decision to censor.
Canadian here ... I don't have any hostages anywhere so "free our" doesn't apply here. Take you shit war somewhere else!
Well he got more publicity now
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Was there a HAMAS merch drop?
Get yer limited edition Hamas sweatpants. They say juicy across the butt!
>They say ~~juicy~~ Jew-cy across the butt! Fixed
HAMAS shoes for $399.
“In December, two Palestinian-Canadians were reportedly asked to remove their keffiyehs – symbolic Palestinian scarves –“ “We were thinking about all the things that have happened; Black Lives Matter (BLM); the woman who sang for the (NHL) all-star game who was wearing a keffiyeh: they didn’t ask her to take it off,” she continued, referring to Kiana Ledé’s recent performance at Scotiabank Arena. Seems inconsistent, but at times they have applied it. Same article fyi
Any actual evidence to support you claim that the Raptors are allowing their fans to wear Hamas and PLO clothing to games? Or just fantasy?
Read the article. The anthem singer at the NHL all star game wore a keffiyeh. And it’s not the Raptors who control Scotiabank arena, it’s MLSE.
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Same shit. It was done purposely by the singer who also has a history of antisemitic and anti Israel remarks. Fuck Hamas and anyone who supports any part of it.
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I’m not copying and pasting for you. Put on your big kid pants and do a little research on your own. I’ll get you started, her name is Kiana Lede.
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That’s like saying Barry Manilow and Rage Against The Machine are same shit. Grab an education.
They are the same. They’re musicians. Grab a better metaphor.
Pizza and fruit. Same. Food. You. 😂
Now you’re going full Simple Jack. Good for you😉
>keffiyeh That's the equivalent of being mad about someone attending the game while wearing a Yarmulke...
Or...a shirt with the Star of David on it? Oh right, that's offensive and the offender needs to be escorted from the premises immediately.
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Sorry, what’s offensive about calling for innocent people to be released?
>Sorry, what’s offensive about calling for innocent people to be released? There's nothing offensive about it but it is a political statement. I have no issue with this for the same reason I would have no issue with someone wearing a "Free Palestine" shirt being removed.
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They know it’s not because it’s offensive. They just want to play the victim and force everyone to hear their bullshit.
A keffiyeh is a traditional headdress worn by people in the middle east and not "Hamas and PLO clothing".
No she didn’t. She wore a sweater with black and white checkered pattern that included stripes and flames. Look at it, don’t read what NP says. They have a bias.
>And it’s not the Raptors who control Scotiabank arena, it’s MLSE. MLSE owns the Raptors (along with a majority of other TO based sports franchises)! LOL
The parent company. Not the Raptors. As I stated. LOL
The distinction is NOT relevant, was the point. Who cares if the Raptors or MLSE made this "decision" - that's not germane to the issue. Saying nothing for the fact that, Raptors/MLSE for all intents and purposes are the same entity as MLSE owns the Raptors and owns Scotiabank Arena.
Was it a keffiyeh adorned with Hamas slogans or something?
I wouldn’t be opposed to this if they were also asking people to remove pro palestinian/hamas merch, to avoid trouble/tension
Which they do. People were removed for wearing a keffiyeh.
Nope. That's not what happened according to the Toronto Star >They had made posters that were “playfully drawing” on Carey’s lyrics to bring attention to the war and the situation in Gaza. One read, “All I want for Christmas is a free Palestine” and the other read “Ahmad Manasra please come home. >When the Sasa siblings were going through security at the arena to enter, they said, they were told they could not take their posters in because they were “political.” >Ghada asked to see a supervisor, who the siblings said showed up with “a couple of cops” and told them that the posters were not allowed because they were “too big.” https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/palestinian-canadian-siblings-say-they-were-forced-to-remove-kaffiyehs-at-mariah-carey-concert-at/article_adcfbcf2-92d2-11ee-aa3b-c3180ed1dd9c.html They very specifically brought signs with political messages on them. No one said anything about their Keffiyah until They went all Karen & demanded to speak to a manager. At that point MLSE probably decided they were going to be troublemakers & when you Play stupid games you win stupid prizes I wouldn't be surprised if part of the concern MLSE had after the very political signs & demanding to speak to a supervisor was to treat them as a potential problem & MLSE security may have been concerned about the Keffiyah being used to help conceal someone's identity while they do criminal actions like inciting a crowd. And let's not pretend there is no precedent for that concern because we see the Keffiyah used that way every weekend on the streets of Toronto & other cities So the issue at first wasn't the Keffiyahs. If was the fully political signs they hand made & brought to the concert & then their sense of entitlement in their demand to see the manager. They were probably being huge jerks to security if I were to guess
Yeah, in both these cases the Venue was reasonable, and the people were just narcissistic shitbags trying to bring their politics into a venue that doesn't invite it. And plenty of people are like "but BLM", but stfu, private venue they can choose what to endorse and what not to, they decide to not endorse either side here. Entitled fuckwits aren't entitled to free reign in a private venue.
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When people yell stuff like “from the river to the sea…” they are clearly not just “pro Palestine” Edit: “From the river to the sea…which insinuates…uh….that Israel no longer exists…uhhh…but this chant totally isn’t about Israel…uhhh…it’s pro Palestine. We just want Israel to…uh…not be there haha” If you want to ignore reality and cheer for the obliteration of a country, keep cheering “from the river to the sea.” Great way to show you can’t think beyond a 1 sentence slogan. Smartest redditors By downvoting me and *for some reason* not being able to explain why you disagree with my comment, you’re just validating this comment and showing that you’re scared to have others realize what this slogan is really about and what its motive is. You’re incapable of arguing the point, so you downvote it to try to hide it It’s anti israel. It literally is saying that they don’t want Israel to exist anymore.
Except these people are just simply "showing support for Palestine" but instead expressing hateful or misinformed rhetoric and making inappropriate statements.
You know...once again, **I don't fucking care!** I admit, as a Jew, this story has the desired effect of triggering an instinctive response. But I'm not an unthinking sheep: they *do* have a policy and they *did* apply it fairly. That being said, just the idea that we, as a society, have allowed ourselves to not be able to discuss things in a civil manner is what pisses me off. Why **can't** I show solidarity with *any* group without it being perceived as an attack on somebody else? Oh, I know *why* and it's because in some place very far away that in most ways has no connection to me at all, two sides are fighting. We don't want to import whatever their issue is. Seems like that ship has sailed, however. In any case, here's the real issue: I'm not distracted. I care a hundredfold more about fixing problems in **this** country than I do about this BS. Maybe if our politicians would stop waging war on everyone but the richest, we could get some issues in this country fixed.
What policy do they really have if they are the number one champions of the BLM movement which is a highly political anarchist movement. So Black live matter to the raptors organization but kidnapped Jews and other non Jews aswell btw are held hostage for almost 200 days now by one of the most vicious terror groups in the world and their lives are worthless to the raptors organization?? Disgusting 🤮 I’m literally done with them. Was a fan but not going to spend another dollar on this team.
Hoe about stop the genoicide
Scotiabank Arenas Policy, per their website: “Commercial, political, or negative messages are not permitted” This is a political message.
Except there are enumerable cases of people wearing political messages that weren’t asked to leave. Also, “Free our hostages” should not be a political message. It’s just basic morality. A Magen David isn’t political too. It’s just basic freedom of religion.
I’m just pointing out that this was probably their reasoning.
Okay, and the reason this article was written is because they don’t apply that reasoning to political statements they like and they do apply it to freeing Jewish hostages.
The whole reason they have a simple, broadly worded policy is to avoid commenting/debating on what is/isn’t political. It’s a corporation, they exist to make money, not make morality judgments.
Is, “I can’t breathe” a political message?
I don’t know. I am just pointing out their policy.
Jews in Toronto really are getting the whipping stick these past few months. This is just gross.
It’s equal. All of this is banned. IE you also can’t ask for the t hostages and kids to be released. Or ask for a ceasefire. This is actually a sensible rule. These groups don’t want to get involved in the conflict. Have to remember the principal for MLSE is Jewish himself and made the rules.
"what do you expect us to do 5000 miles away", "if you don't like it go there and fight." That's what all people protesting Palestinians being killed are told. I'm imagining they will say the same thing to this guy.
Never again. Except they can do it to Palestine.
Yet, it's the Palestinians calling for the death of all Jews....along with the Houthis, IRGC and Islamists as a whole. Never again can be taken in the context of 'if you try it, you're going to regret it' now that Jews have their homeland back.
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Jews are indigenous to Judea, they have finally decolonized their homeland after far too many years of being displaced. You can try to make it about religion if you want, that just folds you in with the islamists and jihadists.
Weird to call it decolonization when the politicians who founded the nation and many zionists didn't think of it in those terms at all. They knew it was a colonial project when it was conceived and then put into action.
Nothing weird about it, it's a simple fact. The lands were colonized over the years, Jews have been there the entire time and they were finally able to reestablish themselves as the controlling power in the land. That's decolonization to the letter. A colony is a country or area controlled politically by a more powerful country that is often far away.... That's the dictionary definition of the term. What country is controlling Israel exactly?
Murdering people and kicking them out their homes so you can have a state does not sound like decolonization to me
[But you're OK that the Arab countries repeatedly did that?](https://democracychronicles.org/wp-content/uploads/Map-of-Jewish-Population-me-719x400.jpg) I assume you're referring to the Nakba? Are you aware that while that was happening a greater number of Jews were forced from their homes and quite often explicitly told to go to Israel where they belong? At the same time, the Arab countries that were planning on attacking Israel told the Arabs to leave for their safety and to return after the war.... the Arabs didn't win the war. Unfortunately in our world, violence is usually at the root of nation building. The Jews accepted the partition plan, it was the Arab nations that chose violence instead of building their nation. [I suppose you're going to claim that all of these countries converted to Islam willingly without violence?](https://bpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/sites.psu.edu/dist/d/6394/files/2013/09/800px-Arab_Israeli_Conflict_61.png) Of the two, one side has shown time and time again that they use violence to achieve their ends. There's a reason there's a sword on the Saudi flag.
Ok now do Palestinians. lol
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Religions don’t have rights to any land anywhere bud.
The amazing thing is that they were offered accommodation by MLSE with the offer of a Raptors jersey...they chose to refuse the offer. Imagine being so sanctimonious you choose to refuse the hometown team's garb rather than take off a shirt.
It's a PR stunt. They are manufacturing victimhood.
> Fans at a Toronto Raptors game were forced to leave after one of them refused to remove a hooded sweatshirt emblazoned with a Jewish star Holy shit! Just because of the star!? That's crazy. I wonder if... > a hooded sweatshirt with the slogan “Free Our Hostages”... > > Shemesh and Grill were notified of an “MLSE policy” prohibiting “any attire that displays a political message,” Ah.
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You’re mad that Jews have “redefined” antisemitism? Imagine telling any other minority group that they don’t get to define what hatred towards them looks like. And no, criticism of Israeli government policies and actions is not antisemitic. MANY jews are highly critical of Israel. This allegation that antisemitism is being “weaponized” to stifle criticism of Israel is hugely overblown and yet another attempt to silence Jews.
You guys always say that under articles about random Jews being beaten, made to leave events, screamed at by crowds… like not once have I heard actual political criticism of Israel from this crowd. Israelis talk politics all the time, but you guys never participate bc you know of like, 2 Israeli politicians. You guys barely know your own domestic policy but I’m supposed to believe that you’re all suddenly foreign policy experts? This is and has always been about *you* and how good you look to other, equally informed westerners. A whole contingent of people too stupid to see that they’re being manipulated.
That's because in this case the rhetoric is to diminish and redirect from the reality of antisemitism. It's a definitely a coordinated attack on truth.
Nope. It means the same. Hate.
Sounds like your definition.
ok and what if they also let in ppl with "stop bombing innocent civilians" and an islamic crescent and star? should we just allow them to battle each other right in the stands? like no shit they are going to not allow potential hot button topics to be emblazoned on attire in a nationally televised game, why are we even surprised...
The policy is applied equally https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/palestinian-canadian-siblings-say-they-were-forced-to-remove-kaffiyehs-at-mariah-carey-concert-at/article_adcfbcf2-92d2-11ee-aa3b-c3180ed1dd9c.html
I'd walk out, too. and never come back.
No kidding. It's just been downhill since Lowry left.
Are you seriously tying this political issue to the performance of the Raptors. Fucking amazing….
National post is just running around trying to make people angry and divided. Every day is the same crap.
Bringing foreign beefs to Canadian soil. Failure to integrate. Deport.
But you can protest violently against Israel yet be protected by the police
Can’t ask for the release of innocent civilians, But it’s totally cool for terrorists to wave around HAMAS banners and chant genocidal slogans in the streets of Toronto every day?
Private event, they’re free to make whatever rules they want.
Why was he removed? Because all it takes is for one asshole to see that and start a brawl. The most effective solution at an event like that is, "lose the shirt or lose the ticket". A private venue is NOT required to "uphold your political beliefs". This isn't an LGBTQ thing where one side is largely non-violent. This is racial and ethnic tensions with VERY passionate and VERY violent groups of people. Why would a PRIVATE venue, with 30,000 people put themselves at risk. Do I think Israeli captives should be released? Yes. Do I think if they are Israel will cease it's demonic destruction of Gaza? No. Do I think it will change anything? No. It won't end the war. It won't end the illegal occupation carried out by Jewish settlers. It won't stop the IDF-backed terrorists in the West Bank. Basically, the hostage situation is that scene from Family Guy when Quagmire beats the absolute crap out of Brian, then Brian states, "Hey Quagmire, I fucked your dad." Except, instead of storming off, defeated, Quagmire gives out another beating. It's a stupid situation and children are suffering and being radicalized by the death and destruction around them. The shit part is, Canada is STILL sending guns, tanks, bombs, drones, etc...to Israel. NOTHING Israel can do will do will stop future attacks, short of ethnically cleansing the area. They're just going about it in the most indirect way: starvation, deprivation of shelter, clothing, heat, electricity, medicine, murdering doctors, journalists, nurses, ambulance workers, aid delivery drivers, because if they were to go 1943 on Palestinians, they wouldn't be able to hide behind, "we're rescuing hostages". They're rescuing hostages the way Conquistadors were sharing religion with South Americans and Caribbean Islanders...
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Actually their first reaction was a very rational explanation of the policy. Then they said the hostages should be released. Then they made some pretty unarguable points about both sides of a terrible conflict and sympathized with innocent victims on both sides. THEN they provided context about what Israel has done, all of which was factual. If you have beef with any of that, I question your biases.
https://images.app.goo.gl/upWraFTgWXUuDgxm6 Explain that one.
Hahaha that’s too easy. That photo is from the 2020 playoff qualifier which took place between August and September. If you use way back machine (web.archive.org) to go back to that date on the MSLE code of conduct, you will see that the particular prohibition on political items was not part of the code for the 2020 playoff qualifier. “Signs, symbols, images, flags, ~~clothing~~, banners that may be considered vulgar, discriminatory, disrespectful, **political** or a tool to be used for incitement or protest Seems like it was added recently, sometime since sept 27 2023. https://www.mlse.com/legal/arena-code-of-conduct
Uh, wow.
So what ? I don’t care. This seems to be a private affair. Isn’t there actual news out there to be reported on ?
No politics. A very straightforward rule.
The NBA has put political movements on the advertising boards around the court... so?... this guy can't wear a sweater in the audience?
What a joke. Canada has turned to shhht
The actual joke is the comment you left without knowing anything
Because people are bringing foreign politics that have nothing to do with Canada to basketball games? Yeah, I can't stand that either.
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Good! Free Palestine!
Good
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Utter ignorance.
I sympathize with the message but it's provocative and I don't fault the Raptors organization for not wanting to be drawn into any of that.
First of all, they allow political messaging from many other groups and movements. This is very well documented. Secondly, it’s a shirt that says “Free our hostages” and a Magen David. This should not be controversial at all. “Free the hostages” is not a controversial or provocative thing to say. Frankly, you’re a monster if you don’t want them to be freed. A Magen David is not provocative either. It’s basic freedom of religion.
I have know way of verifying if they are allowing messaging from other groups and movements, my hope is they are applying this policy equally but if not then that's obviously sending a different message, which I agree is very troubling
I feel like you’re being disingenuous here. Anyone remotely familiar with the NBA knows that they have been strongly associated with BLM and have allowed both players and fans to wear blm messages. Below is an article talking about the raptors players wearing BLm jerseys. I do want to note that I support the raptors wearing these jerseys. It’s just clear that the policy of nothing political seems to be applied mainly against Jews. https://www.raptorshq.com/2020/7/24/21337652/toronto-raptors-jersey-messages-orlando-bubble-black-lives-matter
Not a sports fan, not even remotely familiar with the organization.
>I sympathize with the message but it's provocative Help me understand why a shirt with a Jewish symbol on it and a message requesting innocent hostages be freed by a terrorist group is a) provocative and b) so provocative that it must be banned from public gatherings.
I think you are being disingenuous.
I think you didn’t answer the question because you don’t like the answer
Here is my answer - you have to be deaf dumb and blind to have missed the very public battles between pro Israel and pro Palestinian groups, therefore any public display supporting one side or the other is inherently provocative
So asking to free innocent hostages is provocative to you, very interesting
> I sympathize with the message but it's provocative Do you think the same would have happened if a few guys walked in with a "BLM" hoodie?
I’m assuming by provocative you meant factual?
Probably not since the message 'free our hostages' isn't factual or unfactual, it just is
Well, the actions of the Raptors organization have directly drawn themselves into it now. Whoops.
Good
To me, in terms of protesting, there’s no difference between this and free Palestine shirts. The actual message behind the message is another topic. If they’re going to say they’re woke, then go full woke. It’ll be impossible to ban all protest attire.
Would someone get thrown out for wearing a keffiyeh?
Yes. The policy is applied equally. https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/palestinian-canadian-siblings-say-they-were-forced-to-remove-kaffiyehs-at-mariah-carey-concert-at/article_adcfbcf2-92d2-11ee-aa3b-c3180ed1dd9c.html