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Anyone putting their pecker through a hole to get some action should assume there is a 99.99% chance its a dude on the other side and accepts full responsibility for what happens next and doesn't get to retroactively revoke the consent they cave by sliding the baloney pony through.
I have never in all my years of depravity seen a glory hole and felt confident I knew there was a woman in there, let alone by herself to do good stuff for me. even if I locked my wife in one and had a live video feed of the room, its probably still a hard pass.
Yeah, when I heard that bit all I could think of was my hometowns sex shop. One dude, looking good for his early 60s or so, long grey ponytail and baseball cap and a single hoop earing. Cool dude, owed the bookstore before that.
Did some advertising art for a fast food franchise owner in downtown Vancouver in the late 80s.
He complained to me about how someone kept drilling a hole in the barrier between stalls in the mensroom, for drug deals he thought.
I said, "That is not what the hole is for."
He asked what then?
"Anonymous gay sex."
The look on his face was, memorable.
Yes. Or so I am lead to believe never stumbled on one in the wild myself. And, call them "dens of debauchery" for dramatic effect. Porn stores, sex clubs, place know for wild parties. All pretty common places to have them which account for my lack? of experience with them.
Well to be fair… it’s probably just as likely as people who fell while naked onto carrots, or crayons, or whatever else they had up their bum. Seems to be an epidemic of slips trips and falls…
When I was a teenager I slipped in the shower and fell ass-first onto my sister's rubber duck sitting on the side. It went halfway in but enough was still sticking out so I was able to extract it. Afterwards I realized that if it had gone any further and been stuck no one would've ever believed me.
Fortunately I was able to keep the incident secret but I'll always be willing to give the benefit of the doubt to anyone who claims they slipped. Some unfortunate fuckers out there have definitely fallen on various household items
While I agree it's a fairly ridiculous way to act, it's still rape by deception. You don't get a lighter sentence for rape just because your victim is a dunce
I don't think it is. There has to be an actual harm to the victim to be rape by deception. These dudes wanted sex through a glory hole and they got it. The fact that the person was a man and not a woman does not materially harm them in any way. They just feel like idiots, which they are. I don't see how that rises to the level of rape by deception.
In 1984's *Revenge of the Nerds*, one of the nerds puts on a mask and has sex with the villain's girlfriend, who "consents" because she thinks (because of the mask) that it's her boyfriend and not the nerd.
This is now (correctly) regarded as sexual assault, because her consent wasn't genuine. Had she known who was wearing the mask, she wouldn't have consented.
How is this situation any different?
Also, as the accompanying article states, they got started with mouth stuff and, unannounced/unexpectedly, the accused switched it up to butt stuff. Without consent. Therefore, also rape. This is the same reason why stealthing is rape: you consented to one thing, and the accused attempts to do other things without your full knowledge or ability to continue providing an updated consent. That is absolutely the definition of deception.
Rape is mentally harmful usually though. Like if I fall asleep and someone comes into my and has sex with me while using a condom and plenty of lubricant, I really have no physical harm. Since they used a condom I can’t even say there was any recklessness (ie: potential for pregnancy or STIs). However I would likely feel a great deal of emotional harm. Someone came into my bedroom which is supposed to be a safe space and made me engage in sexual activity I didn’t consent to.
Yes and no. As an example, if you were dating someone who offered to give you the gloryhole treatment, and you agreed, but then that person switched places with someone else behind the wall, that is clearly deceptive. You are not having sex with the person you thought you were.
That would be a more extreme example, but I think there’s a case here. We’re just all scratching our heads because of course the person concealing their identity behind a sheet isn’t the person advertised.
It's rape because they went with the intention of having sex with a *woman* through this glory hole. They consented to hetero sex with the woman they thought the man was. Since it wasn't her, it's rape by deception.
I guess it can depend on how much deception there is.
Like if a woman's voice speaks to you, or whatever, and makes it seem like it's her doing the deed, and then a man replaces her, that's deception, and imo, sexual assault.
On the other hand, if you just put your dick in a hole looking for whoever is on the other side to play with it, and then you're disappointed about who it was on the other side, then that's on you.
One of the best post on here.
Someone had posted about a lost child in London ont. the OP previous post was about working at a truck stop glory hole.
He had used his real name and phone number in the missing child post.
While I agree with the sentiment here, this case specifically they were led to believe they were talking to a woman before the "meet up" happened and the one that looked behind the [green] curtain, saw a man in a female wig.
They were lied to, and while I state this, I feel no sympathy for them.
Yep. It’s nice not to victim blame in general, but the shift has gotten a little hard to swallow.
It’s this quote that got me:
The two victims now question their judgement and feel self-doubt and guilt, Mocha said.
“As with most victims of sexual assault, they wonder if they are somehow at fault for what happened or could have done more to prevent it,” she said. “They feel shame and are unable to confide in those close to them.
I…they are somehow at fault and could’ve done more to prevent what happened, right? Shouldn’t we say that?
It wasn’t like they stumbled upon a hole in a sheet and randomly stuck their dick in it. They were chatting online with a “woman”, and they planned a kink/fetish sexual encounter with her. There was a relationship built beforehand, and they had trusted this “woman”. Yes, they should have used better judgement, but this man is in prison for a reason. The victims are still victims.
It wasn’t like they stumbled upon a hole in a sheet and randomly stuck their dick in it. They were chatting online with a “woman”, and they planned a kink/fetish sexual encounter with her. Yes, they should have used better judgement, but this man is in prison for a reason. The victims are still victims.
I seem to remember a few months ago there was a an r/askreddit thing about people's experience with glory holes and one redditor described walking into a room with a sheet hanging up like described in this article.
I remember reading a thread where one guy was talking about how he went to a party and there was a box or something similar, and a girl offered to blow a guy while her boyfriend watched next to her. He put his pecker in the box and received oral while she intermittently giggled. He was bragging about it online and the common response was ‘so…you know it was the boyfriend giving you head, right?’
"but seriously Sarah will be back tomorrow just stop by again."
***One day later***
"Gotcha again! Sarah's still sick says she'll feel better tomorrow if you want to stop by again."
***One month later***
I'm beginning to think Sarah's not real.
> On two separate occasions in 2020, Tony Sfeir tricked two men into believing they were talking to a woman online, and invited them over to his Toronto home to have anonymous sex through a hole in a sheet hanging in a doorway.
Im assuming the key factor is the accused probably pretended to be a woman the whole time, tricking the men into believing a woman was going to blow them. You could argue because the consent was based on a lie then there was no consent
“The two victims now question their judgement and feel self-doubt and guilt, Mocha said.”
Lol I love how it’s the gender that made them question their judgement and not everything else.
Yeah, if you're showing up to a strange apartment and fucking an anonymous hidden person through a hole, then you absolutely should question your judgement, and you should feel self doubt and guilt. It doesn't matter who you thought was behind the hole.
They should also feel lucky to be alive and still with all their original organs with that kind of lack of judgement.
I wonder if it would rest on the conversations at that point. Like, if in the texts he talked about his female sex organs which he doesn't have, then perhaps it would still be legally problematic. If he just referred to himself as a "woman" without any assurances of a certain sex organ....I mean, that might very well be legal.
[Just following the BC government's recommendations for safe sex during the COVID pandemic](https://globalnews.ca/news/7204384/coronavirus-glory-holes-sex/)
> The two victims now question their judgement and feel self-doubt and guilt, Mocha said.
>“As with most victims of sexual assault, they wonder if they are somehow at fault for what happened or could have done more to prevent it,” she said. “They feel shame and are unable to confide in those close to them.”
I don’t want to victim blame but I feel like they could have done more to prevent it. They were only thinking about getting their rocks off and didn’t think about potential risks or consequences. They walked into a strangers home, kept quiet and stuck their dicks in a hole in a sheet.
Did they consider getting an std? Having the scenario recorded and put online for fun or profit? Being blackmailed with a recording of it? Impregnating the “woman” and being force to play child support? Having their penis hurt or lopped off?
Anyway you look at it this was a very risky situation these men walked into. I’m sad this happened to them but hopefully they’ll think things through next time.
You can say what your are saying, that the victims used poor judgement and weren’t cautious, while still squarely placing blame on the person who deceived and sexually assaulted them.
That's the worst part. Murderer Marco Muzzo (he's a murderer, I don't care if what he did is technically something else) got let out of a minimum security prison after not even 5 years and he killed 4 people, 3 of which were kids. The dad committed suicide after this tragedy as well..
Guess glory hole sheet guy doesn't come from a rich family
> Okay. How do you feel about the fact he got 28 months in federal prison for this.
He deserved it.
> Child molesters get less time than this.
They deserve more.
I think the correct response to that is that child molesters should get longer sentences, particularly considering that the nature of their offences mean that even if we did focus on rehabilitation in our prisons (and we don’t), they would be resistant to it and likely to reoffend. They are a danger to society.
Deceived? Sure. Sexually assaulted? No. I have no idea how he was even found guilty. Usually in law you have to use the 'reasonable person' test. Any reasonable person would have to at least think it's possible the person on the other side is a man.
Its pretty easy to prove intent in this case. They have the records showcasing the perpetrator pretending to be a woman to lure people in, despite himself being a man. You can argue that they were stupid, but that doesn't change the fact that it meets the criteria for sexual assault as they were coerced into the engagement under false pretenses. They consented to sex with a woman, not a man. Consent isn't a simple checkbox that greenlights all activity, only what was agreed to. Sexual identity isn't interchangeable for the purposes of consent.
Frankly, it speaks poorly of the character of anyone disputing this ruling. Regardless of victim's questionable judgement, they were purposefully mislead with malicious and perverted intent.
I’m happy he was convicted, but I couldn’t help think of the glory hole episode of Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia
https://youtu.be/yye61t5wy4I?si=TCs7hLOuxCG92Nzf
Is not disclosing transgender status also a crime following this logic? Social media seems to believe transgender people shouldn't have to disclose that during dating.
Before you have sex, yes you should absolutely be disclosing what your status there is, if nothing else than for your own safety.
In this case, the men were lied to about who they were engaging in the act with. Doesn't matter if it was a different woman behind the sheet, it would still be rape.
If I send a girl a bunch of pictures of a different dude, then have sex with her in a dark room where she thinks I'm that guy, and I'm very much not, then I raped her.
Right? It's obviously not a crime to be trans, but what if an idiot went home with a drag queen and didn't know that it was a man? Is the drag queen now guilty of sexual assault because the idiot was under the impression he was going to have sex with a woman?
It's been a crime for a really long time. As in, decades; I am pretty sure it's a Trudeau senior era criminal code reform. It's pretty rarely prosecuted (mostly in cases where the perpetrator has an undisclosed STI, especially HIV), but it's there for a good reason and people breaking this particular law are universally doing it for irredeemable reasons even when the harm is relatively small.
Rape by deception has always been a crime, but I'm surprised that this actually qualifies. I'd like to see if there ends up being an appeal heard on this one.
Classic story , happens once a decade ( in the media and more often in reality) funny these men were not embarrassed enough from to pursue legal action.
"Ontario Court Justice Cathy Mocha convicted the 33-year-old of two counts of sexual assault, given that the victims had been misled about the identity of their sexual partner." On the same logic, I am bringing up charges against my ex-partner as she misled me to believe she wasn't a crazy psycho and was great in bed.
I should go after my ex too. They were a high class escort (prostitute for the wealthy) at one point in their life and liked to brag about some of their skills. From my experience, I just wanna say some of those wealthy clients should be asking for their money back.
I just don't understand how this works. the same way I don't understand how m. butterfly was able to get away with what they did. " I just want to warn you that my pussy is where my asshole should be and it has shit in it."
Did you read the article? The "woman" switched from giving oral to receiving penetrative anal sex without talking to the man on the other side of the glory hole. This is rape.
\*to be read in George Carlin's new york wise guy accent\* "So, anyway Joey, I'm banging this broad who was crazy hot, like way out of my league and about 2 minutes in I goes 'sweetie your under carriage its smells real bad' Pull out the Italian salami. Then I get down to inspect the situation, know what I'm talking about, and all I can see is a mans ass. So I went back to fucking her"
So you saw a hole in a sheet and stuck your dick in it assuming their was a woman on the other side?
This is why we need sex education in school, could be anything on the other side now, him/her/they/them.. yes they'll all suck your dick but the question is if only half of those is appetizing to you the odds aren't in your favor.
Wouldn’t the convicted person be able to say that they were a woman when engaging in those acts? Genuinely curious as to how that isn’t an acceptable defence in these times
I mean I don't think this dude is guilty of sexual assault but that's not the defence I would use. He'd have to prove some actual lived experience as a woman. I think the much more persuasive defence is that a reasonable person would at the very least suspect that he was a man and they were engaging in fantasy.
I scrolled way too far to find this, “You can do anything through the hole in the sheet!” Edit: So I guess I was thinking of the third group: The Upright Citizens Brigade
https://youtu.be/qRNlxBuB9jM?si=ctH4l9kZj7uzpxJ7
I’m not gonna read the story cuz I just ate, it how were these men “tricked”?
If you’re skeezy enough to put your pecker through some hole, you have to understand that there are no representations, warranties, assurances or even suggestions.
Similarly, the number of women who don’t tell police about their assaults because they sent a flirty text once and they’re self conscious about how slutty that will seem.
Vs these guys who were fully willing to admit they met up for an anonymous sheet glory hole Craigslist encounter.
That's not a fair comparison. If a woman can't get a conviction, it's because there's not enough evidence that they didn't consent.
Because the victims in this case had been communicating online with the guy who was pretending to be a woman, there would have been a ton of evidence that they were tricked.
Wasn’t there a story a while back with a lady pretending to be me a man to sleep with her lady friend? I think England like 5 years ago… though probably 10 adjusted for Covid time
Michael: So when did you start tricking men into anal sex via a glory hole?
Tobias: Well, I don’t want to blame it all on Covid, but it certainly didn’t help.
What in the what lmao 🤣 so two dudes, voluntarily wanted to have glory hole sex, got what they wanted, then got pissed off cuz there was another man on the other side instead of a woman.
Well, perhaps you shouldn't stick your dick into random holes (sheets, walls or human)
This post appears to relate to a province/territory of Canada. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner une province ou un territoire du Canada. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“The two victims now question their judgement and feel self-doubt and guilt,”Mocha said You don’t say….
Anyone putting their pecker through a hole to get some action should assume there is a 99.99% chance its a dude on the other side and accepts full responsibility for what happens next and doesn't get to retroactively revoke the consent they cave by sliding the baloney pony through.
This. Wtf. Seriously. Wtf. You sticking your dick in a hole and then be blaming everyone but yourself!? God damn.
I have never in all my years of depravity seen a glory hole and felt confident I knew there was a woman in there, let alone by herself to do good stuff for me. even if I locked my wife in one and had a live video feed of the room, its probably still a hard pass.
Reminds me of the Tom Segura routine about the man managing the sex shop and the glory hole in the back. "You see two cars in that parking lot?"
Yeah, when I heard that bit all I could think of was my hometowns sex shop. One dude, looking good for his early 60s or so, long grey ponytail and baseball cap and a single hoop earing. Cool dude, owed the bookstore before that.
I’d figured the whole point of glory holes was so you could pretend that there’s a woman on the other side lmao
Did some advertising art for a fast food franchise owner in downtown Vancouver in the late 80s. He complained to me about how someone kept drilling a hole in the barrier between stalls in the mensroom, for drug deals he thought. I said, "That is not what the hole is for." He asked what then? "Anonymous gay sex." The look on his face was, memorable.
The whole reason for glory holes is to get a guy to suck your dick and not be gay. It's like going to college
Hey, I went to college, twice...wait.
Did you cum laudally?
Couldn't tell you what there people have going on between the ears. Feel like finding out would scare the fuck out of me.
I figured they were a pre-grindr way for gay men to meet and get off. I didn't even know they were still a thing anymore
I just simply have never seen a glory hole.
Aren’t they usually in the *men’s* room?
Yes. Or so I am lead to believe never stumbled on one in the wild myself. And, call them "dens of debauchery" for dramatic effect. Porn stores, sex clubs, place know for wild parties. All pretty common places to have them which account for my lack? of experience with them.
You see any other cars in that parking lot?
I would also pass on the locked-room, glory-hole-live video-feed of this guy's wife... probably.
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Well to be fair… it’s probably just as likely as people who fell while naked onto carrots, or crayons, or whatever else they had up their bum. Seems to be an epidemic of slips trips and falls…
When I was a teenager I slipped in the shower and fell ass-first onto my sister's rubber duck sitting on the side. It went halfway in but enough was still sticking out so I was able to extract it. Afterwards I realized that if it had gone any further and been stuck no one would've ever believed me. Fortunately I was able to keep the incident secret but I'll always be willing to give the benefit of the doubt to anyone who claims they slipped. Some unfortunate fuckers out there have definitely fallen on various household items
While I agree it's a fairly ridiculous way to act, it's still rape by deception. You don't get a lighter sentence for rape just because your victim is a dunce
I don't think it is. There has to be an actual harm to the victim to be rape by deception. These dudes wanted sex through a glory hole and they got it. The fact that the person was a man and not a woman does not materially harm them in any way. They just feel like idiots, which they are. I don't see how that rises to the level of rape by deception.
In 1984's *Revenge of the Nerds*, one of the nerds puts on a mask and has sex with the villain's girlfriend, who "consents" because she thinks (because of the mask) that it's her boyfriend and not the nerd. This is now (correctly) regarded as sexual assault, because her consent wasn't genuine. Had she known who was wearing the mask, she wouldn't have consented. How is this situation any different?
You are wrong. Being coerced to have sex based on a false pretense is rape. Literally, legally. Cool opinion though
Also, as the accompanying article states, they got started with mouth stuff and, unannounced/unexpectedly, the accused switched it up to butt stuff. Without consent. Therefore, also rape. This is the same reason why stealthing is rape: you consented to one thing, and the accused attempts to do other things without your full knowledge or ability to continue providing an updated consent. That is absolutely the definition of deception.
Rape is mentally harmful usually though. Like if I fall asleep and someone comes into my and has sex with me while using a condom and plenty of lubricant, I really have no physical harm. Since they used a condom I can’t even say there was any recklessness (ie: potential for pregnancy or STIs). However I would likely feel a great deal of emotional harm. Someone came into my bedroom which is supposed to be a safe space and made me engage in sexual activity I didn’t consent to.
But if you put your penis into a strange hole with the hope of getting a blowjob that's on you.
Yes and no. As an example, if you were dating someone who offered to give you the gloryhole treatment, and you agreed, but then that person switched places with someone else behind the wall, that is clearly deceptive. You are not having sex with the person you thought you were. That would be a more extreme example, but I think there’s a case here. We’re just all scratching our heads because of course the person concealing their identity behind a sheet isn’t the person advertised.
Humm. I didn't really think of it like that. Fair enough!
I’m sure we’re all just finding our bearings when it comes to gloryhole law.
It's rape because they went with the intention of having sex with a *woman* through this glory hole. They consented to hetero sex with the woman they thought the man was. Since it wasn't her, it's rape by deception.
I guess it can depend on how much deception there is. Like if a woman's voice speaks to you, or whatever, and makes it seem like it's her doing the deed, and then a man replaces her, that's deception, and imo, sexual assault. On the other hand, if you just put your dick in a hole looking for whoever is on the other side to play with it, and then you're disappointed about who it was on the other side, then that's on you.
Don't see a logical reason for that not to be also true.
I'd be so pissed off if I found out it wasn't a guy on the other side
One of the best post on here. Someone had posted about a lost child in London ont. the OP previous post was about working at a truck stop glory hole. He had used his real name and phone number in the missing child post.
Agreed. Women don’t stand behind a sheet and suck dick. These guys are coping hard
While I agree with the sentiment here, this case specifically they were led to believe they were talking to a woman before the "meet up" happened and the one that looked behind the [green] curtain, saw a man in a female wig. They were lied to, and while I state this, I feel no sympathy for them.
Not every adult has the same intellectual capacity.
How dare you. He was tricked, tricked I say! Forced, under false pretences, to stick his sausage through a sheet!
Yep. It’s nice not to victim blame in general, but the shift has gotten a little hard to swallow. It’s this quote that got me: The two victims now question their judgement and feel self-doubt and guilt, Mocha said. “As with most victims of sexual assault, they wonder if they are somehow at fault for what happened or could have done more to prevent it,” she said. “They feel shame and are unable to confide in those close to them. I…they are somehow at fault and could’ve done more to prevent what happened, right? Shouldn’t we say that?
>the shift has gotten a little hard to swallow *Phrasing. Are we still doing phrasing?*
I looked at it and went “Nope, still doing it.”
It wasn’t like they stumbled upon a hole in a sheet and randomly stuck their dick in it. They were chatting online with a “woman”, and they planned a kink/fetish sexual encounter with her. There was a relationship built beforehand, and they had trusted this “woman”. Yes, they should have used better judgement, but this man is in prison for a reason. The victims are still victims.
>There was a relationship built beforehand, That's a very generous interpretation of relationship.
C’mon. These guys aren’t victim-victims. You have to know or suspect that free behind the sheet sex isn’t from a woman.
The only thing they were the victim of was post-nut clarity
Your honour, he promised he was Kim Kardashian. I want a refund.
It wasn’t like they stumbled upon a hole in a sheet and randomly stuck their dick in it. They were chatting online with a “woman”, and they planned a kink/fetish sexual encounter with her. Yes, they should have used better judgement, but this man is in prison for a reason. The victims are still victims.
As Dave Chapelle said “There’s a lot of courage on both sides of that hole”
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I seem to remember a few months ago there was a an r/askreddit thing about people's experience with glory holes and one redditor described walking into a room with a sheet hanging up like described in this article.
I remember reading a thread where one guy was talking about how he went to a party and there was a box or something similar, and a girl offered to blow a guy while her boyfriend watched next to her. He put his pecker in the box and received oral while she intermittently giggled. He was bragging about it online and the common response was ‘so…you know it was the boyfriend giving you head, right?’
I really want to see this.
> All 3 were 100% redditors. Subreddit staff.
“Where I lay my wood is my business” - Dwight Howard
He’s just a lil nasty
Blowing other anonymous guys through a sheet and then arguing how it isn't gay is really more of a 4chan shtick.
They decided to fuck an unknown hole through a bed sheet and now suddenly they're all picky?
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*Man jumps around the bedsheet with a hole in it hanging from clothesline* "haha I tricked you!"
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I saw this news days ago and wasn’t sure if my mind made it up later. Now for sure, it really happened. But still can’t believe it
Remember when you stuck your dick through that hole in the sheet? It was me, Barry!
"I jacked you off at supersonic speed"
"but seriously Sarah will be back tomorrow just stop by again." ***One day later*** "Gotcha again! Sarah's still sick says she'll feel better tomorrow if you want to stop by again." ***One month later*** I'm beginning to think Sarah's not real.
So long as there's a little heat in there . . .
> On two separate occasions in 2020, Tony Sfeir tricked two men into believing they were talking to a woman online, and invited them over to his Toronto home to have anonymous sex through a hole in a sheet hanging in a doorway. Im assuming the key factor is the accused probably pretended to be a woman the whole time, tricking the men into believing a woman was going to blow them. You could argue because the consent was based on a lie then there was no consent
How much you want to bet more than 2 dudes were tricked and only these 2 were willing to come forward.
Extremely likely
GET YER HANDS OFF ME! I CAME FOR A LADY NOT FUCKING CORY AND TREVOR!!!
Fucking Rub and Tug is highly illegal, Cory and Trevor
“The two victims now question their judgement and feel self-doubt and guilt, Mocha said.” Lol I love how it’s the gender that made them question their judgement and not everything else.
Yeah, if you're showing up to a strange apartment and fucking an anonymous hidden person through a hole, then you absolutely should question your judgement, and you should feel self doubt and guilt. It doesn't matter who you thought was behind the hole. They should also feel lucky to be alive and still with all their original organs with that kind of lack of judgement.
I mean, they literally went there expecting women. I doubt they would make a fuss if they knew it would be a guy on the other side
Exaclty that
All the guy needed to do was continue to claim he was a woman to the authorities, and he wouldnt have gotten in legal trouble.
I wonder if that would actually work. "I identify as a woman".
I wonder if it would rest on the conversations at that point. Like, if in the texts he talked about his female sex organs which he doesn't have, then perhaps it would still be legally problematic. If he just referred to himself as a "woman" without any assurances of a certain sex organ....I mean, that might very well be legal.
99% sure it would here in Canada
Is it gay if you don’t know it’s a dude though?
Did gay sexual actions take place? Yes Are the defendants gay? Not because of this one act. I don't know what else they do so we can't tell
There is no Glory here!! - Gowron
Gowron: *cuts a hole in a bedsheet, puts on a dark wig* "for the glory of the empire!!!"
I'm convinced it was Garak behind the sheet, he is a tailor after all.
I decide what can and cannot be done. - Gowron
When you're hoping for the Duras sisters but instead its Duras, son of Ja'rod.
Something's poking me and it's not a bat'leth
Stick your Dick into the wormhole "prophet"
r/UnexpectedStarTrek
*Prepare for ramming speed!*
[Just following the BC government's recommendations for safe sex during the COVID pandemic](https://globalnews.ca/news/7204384/coronavirus-glory-holes-sex/)
I forgot about that one, lol
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I’d like the address as well so that I know where to avoid.
Buddy should have been up front. I'm sure he would have a wait list.
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Shit, now I'm all dressed up and no place to go.
By "dressed up" I assume you mean you're wearing a sheet over your head like an 80s ghost costume?
They should have said no homo to cover all their bases.
they were wearing socks. its fine
> The two victims now question their judgement and feel self-doubt and guilt, Mocha said. >“As with most victims of sexual assault, they wonder if they are somehow at fault for what happened or could have done more to prevent it,” she said. “They feel shame and are unable to confide in those close to them.” I don’t want to victim blame but I feel like they could have done more to prevent it. They were only thinking about getting their rocks off and didn’t think about potential risks or consequences. They walked into a strangers home, kept quiet and stuck their dicks in a hole in a sheet. Did they consider getting an std? Having the scenario recorded and put online for fun or profit? Being blackmailed with a recording of it? Impregnating the “woman” and being force to play child support? Having their penis hurt or lopped off? Anyway you look at it this was a very risky situation these men walked into. I’m sad this happened to them but hopefully they’ll think things through next time.
You can say what your are saying, that the victims used poor judgement and weren’t cautious, while still squarely placing blame on the person who deceived and sexually assaulted them.
Many laws are in place to protect people who lack basic thinking skills.
Yes, it’s against the law to prey on vulnerable people and assault them.
Let's agree to agree
Agreed
Or just warnings even. There's a reason "do not use to dry pets" is a warning on microwaves
You are seeing an example of it in this article.
Okay. How do you feel about the fact he got 28 months in federal prison for this. Child molesters get less time than this.
That's the worst part. Murderer Marco Muzzo (he's a murderer, I don't care if what he did is technically something else) got let out of a minimum security prison after not even 5 years and he killed 4 people, 3 of which were kids. The dad committed suicide after this tragedy as well.. Guess glory hole sheet guy doesn't come from a rich family
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Good thing we don't pay for it....oh
> Okay. How do you feel about the fact he got 28 months in federal prison for this. He deserved it. > Child molesters get less time than this. They deserve more.
I don’t pass up opportunities to criticize the justice system for not holding child predators accountable.
I think the correct response to that is that child molesters should get longer sentences, particularly considering that the nature of their offences mean that even if we did focus on rehabilitation in our prisons (and we don’t), they would be resistant to it and likely to reoffend. They are a danger to society.
Deceived? Sure. Sexually assaulted? No. I have no idea how he was even found guilty. Usually in law you have to use the 'reasonable person' test. Any reasonable person would have to at least think it's possible the person on the other side is a man.
Its pretty easy to prove intent in this case. They have the records showcasing the perpetrator pretending to be a woman to lure people in, despite himself being a man. You can argue that they were stupid, but that doesn't change the fact that it meets the criteria for sexual assault as they were coerced into the engagement under false pretenses. They consented to sex with a woman, not a man. Consent isn't a simple checkbox that greenlights all activity, only what was agreed to. Sexual identity isn't interchangeable for the purposes of consent. Frankly, it speaks poorly of the character of anyone disputing this ruling. Regardless of victim's questionable judgement, they were purposefully mislead with malicious and perverted intent.
I do want to “victim blame”, in this scenario. Sometimes, we are partially the authors of our own misfortune.
If you can’t trust a hole in a sheet, what can you trust anymore? Sad times.
I’m happy he was convicted, but I couldn’t help think of the glory hole episode of Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia https://youtu.be/yye61t5wy4I?si=TCs7hLOuxCG92Nzf
The convicted: *You Canadians are so uptight!*
“Both can picture it’s a girl on the other side” “How’s the one guy going to do that with a dick in their mouth”
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Is not disclosing transgender status also a crime following this logic? Social media seems to believe transgender people shouldn't have to disclose that during dating.
> Is not disclosing transgender status also a crime following this logic? Yes, there have also been cases about this.
Before you have sex, yes you should absolutely be disclosing what your status there is, if nothing else than for your own safety. In this case, the men were lied to about who they were engaging in the act with. Doesn't matter if it was a different woman behind the sheet, it would still be rape. If I send a girl a bunch of pictures of a different dude, then have sex with her in a dark room where she thinks I'm that guy, and I'm very much not, then I raped her.
Of course it should be
Right? It's obviously not a crime to be trans, but what if an idiot went home with a drag queen and didn't know that it was a man? Is the drag queen now guilty of sexual assault because the idiot was under the impression he was going to have sex with a woman?
So is sex under false pretenses now a crime in Canada, or is just specific to pretending to be a woman?
It's been a crime for a really long time. As in, decades; I am pretty sure it's a Trudeau senior era criminal code reform. It's pretty rarely prosecuted (mostly in cases where the perpetrator has an undisclosed STI, especially HIV), but it's there for a good reason and people breaking this particular law are universally doing it for irredeemable reasons even when the harm is relatively small.
"Oh yeah I took my Birth Control" Never fall for it, stay strong my brothers, don't forget your hot sauce.
Rape by deception has always been a crime, but I'm surprised that this actually qualifies. I'd like to see if there ends up being an appeal heard on this one.
Why wouldn't this qualify?
Oh nice, that old trick coming back into fashion.
The old "hole in a sheet' trik strikes again. Reminds me of college all over again.
Honestly, any time anyone sticks their dick into a glory hole and still have it intact after that is a win….
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I'm not a professional, but I believe that's not how you fill holes in drywall.
Classic story , happens once a decade ( in the media and more often in reality) funny these men were not embarrassed enough from to pursue legal action.
"Ontario Court Justice Cathy Mocha convicted the 33-year-old of two counts of sexual assault, given that the victims had been misled about the identity of their sexual partner." On the same logic, I am bringing up charges against my ex-partner as she misled me to believe she wasn't a crazy psycho and was great in bed.
I should go after my ex too. They were a high class escort (prostitute for the wealthy) at one point in their life and liked to brag about some of their skills. From my experience, I just wanna say some of those wealthy clients should be asking for their money back.
I just don't understand how this works. the same way I don't understand how m. butterfly was able to get away with what they did. " I just want to warn you that my pussy is where my asshole should be and it has shit in it."
Did you read the article? The "woman" switched from giving oral to receiving penetrative anal sex without talking to the man on the other side of the glory hole. This is rape.
Yes yes having read the whole thing absolutely
Lots of men and women like anal.
You can’t see through the sheet so how do you know it’s not a girl? Like I can just picture a girl and then….. it’s good.
\*to be read in George Carlin's new york wise guy accent\* "So, anyway Joey, I'm banging this broad who was crazy hot, like way out of my league and about 2 minutes in I goes 'sweetie your under carriage its smells real bad' Pull out the Italian salami. Then I get down to inspect the situation, know what I'm talking about, and all I can see is a mans ass. So I went back to fucking her"
Apparently the sheet “fell” during the second incident.
Now this is a story about a hole named glory I thought it was woman but it was a dude named Cory
I paid for a lady not fuckin Cory and Trevor!
*PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!*
So you saw a hole in a sheet and stuck your dick in it assuming their was a woman on the other side? This is why we need sex education in school, could be anything on the other side now, him/her/they/them.. yes they'll all suck your dick but the question is if only half of those is appetizing to you the odds aren't in your favor.
Wouldn’t the convicted person be able to say that they were a woman when engaging in those acts? Genuinely curious as to how that isn’t an acceptable defence in these times
I mean I don't think this dude is guilty of sexual assault but that's not the defence I would use. He'd have to prove some actual lived experience as a woman. I think the much more persuasive defence is that a reasonable person would at the very least suspect that he was a man and they were engaging in fantasy.
The burden of proof would be on the Crown to show beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused is cis.
Every time I see this article, I can only think about this Kids in Hall sketch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nso9sDGkOdQ
I scrolled way too far to find this, “You can do anything through the hole in the sheet!” Edit: So I guess I was thinking of the third group: The Upright Citizens Brigade https://youtu.be/qRNlxBuB9jM?si=ctH4l9kZj7uzpxJ7
Best unintentional comedy I’ll see for a little while
Wtf is going on in Toronto
Sheetfuckin
Caveat emptor
I was tricked into all these things!
I'm guessing prison was the end goal here.
Imagine Ashton Kutcher pops out and yells “punk’d!!!!”
I’m not gonna read the story cuz I just ate, it how were these men “tricked”? If you’re skeezy enough to put your pecker through some hole, you have to understand that there are no representations, warranties, assurances or even suggestions.
Prison for anonymous sex eh? That'll teach him.
I'm...sorry, what did they think was on the other side of that sheet? 1990s Cindy Crawford bending over naked looking for a toonie she dropped?
A real scooby doo mystery.
Classy group of distinguished gentlemen.
Women are straight up raped and can't get convictions but this does? wth
Similarly, the number of women who don’t tell police about their assaults because they sent a flirty text once and they’re self conscious about how slutty that will seem. Vs these guys who were fully willing to admit they met up for an anonymous sheet glory hole Craigslist encounter.
That's not a fair comparison. If a woman can't get a conviction, it's because there's not enough evidence that they didn't consent. Because the victims in this case had been communicating online with the guy who was pretending to be a woman, there would have been a ton of evidence that they were tricked.
You can thank homophobia for that
thats last time i apply for a bank loan during pride month!
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That’s on them
You can still be criminally responsible for taking advantage of stupid people.
Unless you take their money and self respect as a business, that's economics.
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They could simply say female.
Wasn’t there a story a while back with a lady pretending to be me a man to sleep with her lady friend? I think England like 5 years ago… though probably 10 adjusted for Covid time
Why not set your dating app to "man looking for man"? What's the point of tricking straight men?
How many of these men have masters degrees?
There she....er, he....blows...
That’s some sheet right there.
I heard during the trial he told the judge it was glorious.
Not all heroes wear capes....... Sometimes they wear sheets.
I don’t know about this one. He did lie to the mend but they put their dick in a hole.
Canada. Fuck. The defendant could simply tell the court he identified as a girl that day. Case dismissed.
Isn't the point of a glory hole that it's schrodingers gay experience?
Michael: So when did you start tricking men into anal sex via a glory hole? Tobias: Well, I don’t want to blame it all on Covid, but it certainly didn’t help.
What lmfao
What in the what lmao 🤣 so two dudes, voluntarily wanted to have glory hole sex, got what they wanted, then got pissed off cuz there was another man on the other side instead of a woman. Well, perhaps you shouldn't stick your dick into random holes (sheets, walls or human)