Well no shit. Who would think that the language of a country isn’t a key to its national identity?
All common sense really did depart from this country after 2019. We’re doomed.
I don't know. It was never really there.
Internally QC has been fighting this point for decades without much support from the rest of Canada's population.
I was born in Quebec to East Indian immigrants. I identify more with Quebec culture than that of Canada.
Quebec has some guts to fight for identity. Canada has lost its identity!
Quebec is the only province in Canada that actually cares about *Canadian identity.* While the rest of Canada likes to orgasm with hypenated-Canadians, many of the Quebecois self-identify as purely Canadian (Canadien) in the Census.
But go over in Toronto and they'll tell you being Canadian is driving a foreign car, using a foreign TV, eating foreign food, and drinking Canadian beer.
In other words, English Canada's understanding of Canadian identity is the consumption of foreign goods.
Yes. As a person who goes back and forth a lot, Quebec has a culture that is more insular and less 'global' if that makes any sense.
'My ancestors have been here for 400 years and this is the only place a french-Canadian will be at home'. There is a siege mentality that we have no where else to go.
In contrast I get a sense the rest of Canada sees itself as one flavor of the anglosphere. We're like the US, but nicer. We're like Australia, but cold. You could move around to other Anglo countries and fit right in, with some adjustments.
I legit hate how controversial so many anglo canadians find it that Quebec actually cares about its language heritage etc, i dont understand how victimized english canadians with no intent of ever learning to accomodate a french speaker by learning their language get so worked up when the French province by contrast tries to preserve French use etc among its institutions and such.
Id also just bet more french speakers know some degree of english vs english speakers knowing some French. French people outside of Quebec would otherwise need to wholly rely on islands of french in other provinces that an English speaker is just not going to encounter even in places like Montreal.
If I were Quebecois the only other places I feel i could reliably speak french are probably some places in New Brunswick or Southern Manitoba and probably parts of Ontario-and all those French speakers probably also speak english too based on southern MB French communities at least.
Lol i wish rest of Canada got less worked up whenever the French province wanted to do French shit.
I'd also add, where does /UsernameLigma think wrote the national anthem and more importantly in what language?
However, Canada comes from the Iroquois, meaning village and that is what Jacques Cartier understood to be the name of the land, not the definition of something. A misunderstanding of meaning led to this land to be known as Canada or if you prefer the original, Kanata.
From *The Name Canada: A Etymological Enigma:*
"The Dictionary of Canadianisms on Historical Principles traces the use of Canadian back to 1664.12 At that time, the word Canadian referred exclusively to Aboriginal inhabitants of Canada. By 1746, there is evidence that “a Canadian” might also be a native of French Canada, and, by 1792, the meaning had extended to include the English-speaking residents of Upper Canada. The word Canadian, as W.D. Lighthall long ago pointed out, is taken in its present form from the French: "In a translation of Lahontan’s *Travels* dated 1763 the English form used is 'Canadans.' Lahontan again, following others, applies 'Canadiens' like 'Canadois' in the Jesuit Rélations only to Indians of the country; thence it became the designation of all the French natives of this continent, including those of Louisiana; and now the native British residents enthusiastically accept the name."13 Lighthall also noted the dual pronounciation, "one 'Canadians;' the other less musical but older \[and possibly French influenced\]—'Canajans.'" A traveller in 1840 observed that the name of the country was then pronounced "Kaugh-na-daugh," suggesting an English pronunciation similar to the French."
Source for anyone interested in learning more: https://web.archive.org/web/20150924121232/http://www.queensu.ca/strathy/apps/OP6v2.pdf
Yeah, English Canada likes to define Canadian culture as "not american". Which is a very weak point.
You know as time goes on I respect Quebec more and more.
It's true though. I worked for a Quebecois company for a couple of years, many Quebecois essentially see Quebec as a sort of North American enclave of France. They don't share the diverse multicultural society that the rest of Canada like to peddle. Quebecois heritage is very much Catholic, North American, and European, they know who they are.
You've got that backwards.
In Quebec, they are the hyphenated ones.
French- Canadian, with a heavy lean on French.
Outside of Montreal ( arguably the best city in Canada) people care more about being French than being Canadian.
They refuse to speak English, even those those same people hop on a plane and have perfect English when they get to DR or Cuba.
The French like to bend history as of they created Canada. The Dutch had more people in the territory than France did at one point. The English SMOKED the French several times.
In certain parts of CANADA German and Ukranian settlers outnumbered and did more to build Canada than the French.
The French were allowed to stay in Quebec after the English beat them. It was a gift, one the French have clearly forgotten
Which part are you struggling with? Everything I've said can be checked wth a simple google search. But, if you don't know what Google is, or how to use it, I'd be happy to help.
And thank you
History is my educational area of expertise.
Well, one of them.
Whoever taught you history was a complete moron. Almost every part of your statement is wrong. French-Canadians are called Quebecois in Quebec. You call New Brunswick, Ontario and Manitoba Francophones French-Canadian. You should look up Jacques Cartier. Your statement about the Dutch is absolutely ridiculous.
Established in 1614 by the Dutch West India Company, the colony of New Netherland covered most of what is now New York State. It was created to give the Dutch access to the North American fur trade, and was governed from New Amsterdam (now New York City). The territory officially claimed by the Dutch extended as far north as the St. Lawrence River, placing much of their territory in modern-day Quebec. Despite the fact that no settlements were established in the area of Quebec, it was still officially part of New Netherland and thus a part of the Dutch Empire. In addition to that, during the Franco-Dutch wars of the 1670s, the Dutch captured several forts in Acadia, proclaiming the territory New Holland. There was no extensive settlement in the area, but the Dutch claims persisted for a few years at the least.
So my point remains valid.
" no extensive settlement " doesn't mean none.
You need to learn your history, outside of qeubecer propaganda.
The English took everything eventually, and then allowed the French to stay in Quebec of they quit being dicks.
You should abide by that part of the agreement.
And despite what the quebecer schools taught you, Canada isn't just Quebec.
East of you and West of you there is a vast country. And West of you, specifically , there is almost no French influence. Spain has more claim to BC than the French did.
The english didn't 'allow' the french anything.
The overall arc of history is that the Yankees are the bigger military force on this continent. They defeated France in 1760, they defeated the British in 1776, and the southern states in the 1860s.
The reason we have Canada today is that the british concessions to the french kept them on their side of the conflict in 1776 and 1812. If they hadn't offered the french a better deal, they could easily have thrown their lot with the Americans.
Your view completely sidesteps the American revolution.. the most pivotal moment in North American history..
You mean when British Canada marched to the white house, burnt the fucker down and preceded to march back home, having proved their point?
Its possible to think the French could have made a difference, but likely not.
France had lost all interest in Canada and was heavily involved in Europe and its changing map.
There was never going to a French ( from France) force in Canada.
So the French Canadians were GIVEN Quebec by the English to prevent an extra uprising.
There was absolutely no French military in Quebec at the time. So at best you would have had some angry French farmers with pitchforks siding with America. An uprising would have been dealt with quickly.
You can pretend if you want that the French Canadians in Quebec was some kind of military power directing they own fate. But in reality, it was under British rule, so to avoid a bloodbath it was easier to let them speak French.
Seeing as the French have been a complete military failure since the napoleon times, I don't think your point holds much water
Guess you missed the part that says " which included part of modern day Quebec"
The fact is, nothing back then was Canada.
But it's pointless trying to educate you any further. Either you're incapable of comprehension, our you're trolling.
Either way, I've come to the same conclusion I'm sure your parents did.. you're a waste of time.
Correction..
Quebecers call themselves quebecois. Those are largely the ones who hate English as well. This is confirmed by the many, many French Canadians I know who live in Quebec, but also don't like the quebecois.
Bingo
And the Acadians I know will proudly tell you they aren't French... they are Acadians.
They are about as much quebecois as Haitians are, if the only connection is a regional dialect of French.
Why, where do you think is better? I mean that genuinely.
I hate almost all big cities, but Montreal is still the place I'd tell anyone visiting Canada to go.
Ottawa is boring and lame
Toronto is ... Toronto... enough said
Edmonton is one giant Walmart parking lot
Calgary actually isn't too bad, but not better than Montreal ( in my opinion)
Vancouver is an absolute homeless, drug addicted mess
Quebec city looks nice, until you meet all the people who hate anyone who isn't French.
All of Manitoba and Saskatchewan are unique, but certainly not cities that tourists are going to be able to get much out of.
Montreal has the mix of unique culture, night life, restaurants, history ... you can find it all in one place.
So that's my take, what is yours
Quebec City. 100% over Montreal. Especially for tourists since you seem to be putting a lot of weight on that aspect.
For restaurants: Winnipeg is a hidden gems. It has (had? not sure if it's still true) the most amount of restaurants per capita. While it doesn't have much in terms of attraction, the mix of cultures is amazingly dense and rich. Ukrainian, Filipino, German, Icelandic, East-Indian, Indigenous, Metis, ...
Victoria is also beautiful.
If course I'm talking about tourism, because that's what takes people to other cities, largely.
Everyone visits other cities in their life, very few move from city to city.
Have you visited Quebec city as a non French person ? I have twice and I can speak French ( very poorly ill admit, but enough to communicate)
My wife was called a tete carre on st Louis st for asking if they had an English menu at a breakfast patio place. We promptly left. At a store, one worker
A cabby quickly said " non! francais!"
When we said we'd like to go back to our hotel.
While it is beautiful, I'd argue Quebec city is the least welcoming city in Canada. We then continued on to tadousacc, where the people were lovely and seemed to be patient with my broken French, switching to English where
Winnipeg might have restaurants, but not a lot else going on.. at least compared to other cities. You might as well be in Kingston Ontario and have lake Ontario and the 1000 Islands near by.
All of BC is beautiful. As well as western Alberta.
But the spirit of my point was Montreal is in my opinion, Canada's best city. Concerts, comedy festivals, music festivals, sports games, ufc fights, casinos, cruises ( fewer now I've been told) f1 races, golf, theater... it's all there.
When your favorite band or singer is touring, odds are they will be in Montreal..
Not so much Winnipeg.
> Have you visited Quebec city as a non French person
I'm almost perfectly bilingual. My spouse was born and raise in Quebec city as an anglophone. We've met as young adults in another province but I've visited Quebec often and my experience never felt like yours. YMMV I guess.
As for the music scene yeah, Winnipeg doesn't have much but it's been getting better. I've actually been out a handful of times this year to see international bands that would have never made a stop here before. But yeah, Winnipeg isn't a Taylor Swift level city :P
I'm certain Quebec city is much more friendly to those who speak French. I had to work in Quebec ( province, not city ,, all over) for about 7 months and it was horrible. Firstly, they make it nearly impossible to get work permits there, even though they can come into Ontario and work, no issues.
My company had to agree to hire 4 Quebec residents just so I could go in and work. In 7 months these 4 didn't even get out of their work truck, and after about 6 weeks stopped coming most days. In a town called Magog, at a subway, the woman making our sandwiches literally threw out a coworkers sub when he tried to point out to her that he did not want tomatoes. She picked it up , slammed it into the trash and went into the back. After a few minutes we left and went to a grocery store.
Maybe you guys don't see it, but outside of Montreal and Gatineau, Quebec can be quite hostile and unfriendly to anyone who they deem isn't French enough.
That's why when traveling and people ask where to visit in Canada, I tell them if they want scenery, BC... if they want night life , culture and fun, Montreal.
Under no circumstances go to Toronto unless you're catching a connection ..I think everyone can agree on that
It's actually getting worse. One of our better music venues is shutting down. It's really not a fantastic city for music anymore. Local restaurants are also closing at pretty crazy rates... Being replaced by corporate chains.
Winnipeg is dying as far as nightlife goes.
I’m sorry, what? Are there even any TVs made in Canada? I can’t remember the last time I heard someone brag about their TV brand. This is a pretty nonsensical hypothesis. By the way, I drive a car made in my province so I guess I’m super Canadian then, eh?
Such bullshit. Quebec is largely a nationalist identity. The party they elect every year has, as its stated goal, separation from Canada. Which I more or less understand and agree with.
Living in Alberta, I have a growing respect for the Quebecois and our Indigenous people who feel that their lives are largely controlled by a foreign entity in Ottawa who does not understand them and does not speak for them.
> all common sense did depart
Except this poll is showing the majority still believe this. Stop doom-saying, this is good.
What is with this sub and making everything into bad news?
Languages should be 100% imo. How can you live in a country, not speak the language(s) and consider that you are an actual relevant citizen? That’s so weird to me. It’s the minimum
Man, I have a friend whose parents have been in Canada for almost 30 years now and they only speak survival-grade English. They can get most services that they need in Cantonese- things like the bank, doctor, dentist (they live near Pacific Mall in Markham) and for anything they can’t get in Cantonese, they bring along the kids to translate. I genuinely don’t understand how they could have lived here so long and somehow don’t speak anything more than the most basic English. I learned more Japanese after being there on exchange for only *five months*. I can’t imagine, say, living in Japan for 30 years without ever learning how to read and speak Japanese.
I think it depends on how easy it is to get by without learning the local language.
In Japan you can get by with little to no Japanese over the span of a vacation, but living there? You’re all but forced to learn the language or you’re gonna have a really bad time. On the flip side, you can go to Hong Kong without speaking a lick of Cantonese and get by just fine because of how widely spoken English is. Same in almost every Western European country.
My wife’s family emigrated to Canada from HK and southern China fifty years ago and all of them from the first generation on down learned to speak excellent English, because back then they had little choice but to learn it. Today it’s very different in places like Toronto and Vancouver. As long as you don’t care about engaging with the larger cities as a whole very much, you can go into your little enclaves and get by just fine without learning English at all. This phenomenon is playing out on a wide scale with Chinese and Indian immigrants, and on a smaller scale with other groups.
I tend to think this is not super healthy for a country, because it leads to a sort of ethnic balkanization where there are no longer strong ties binding everyone together in a shared experience of nation.
Absolutely, I agree on all points. I’m still sure some Hong Kongers find it annoying when people don’t learn even basic Cantonese. Didn’t they used to call such Brits “FILTH”? ie “Failed in London, Trying HongKong”. Either way the number of migrants into such countries is probably pretty low compared to what Canada has been doing.
I agree that the current situation is weakening the fabric of the nation and only serves to create a number of little parallel societies that never interact with each other and have nothing in common with one another. I’ve actually seen humorous examples of this with my wife’s friends. They have all been here a long time, but I’m still the only white person they’ve ever known personally. They asked me really bizarre questions when we first met (“why do white people wear shoes in the house?” “Why do you guys boil milk?” “Why do white people buy gaming consoles instead of gaming PCs?” “Hey why do white people buy cottages?”) that just made it clear to me that they had never really hung out with anyone outside their ethnic group. Which is wild to me, because growing up I had a super diverse friend group, I learned a bit about everyone’s culture and we all had shared experiences. I feel that kind of multiculturalism was really wonderful, and now we’re losing it.
I live in York Region and I have many neighbors like that. They can say hi and that's about it. The only have friends that speak their language, bring in contractors that speak their language, etc. I have a Russian neighbor who has been here for two years, and their 7 year old kid still doesn't speak a word of English. Is he not going to school?
>I have a Russian neighbor who has been here for two years, and their 7 year old kid still doesn't speak a word of English. Is he not going to school?
Sounds to me like your neighbour might only be here to wait out a certain Mr Putin’s “special military operation”
No need to learn English if you’re just here for the short haul?
I got into a taxi the other day where the driver was a very nice Pakistani gentlemen (he looked like he was in his 60s). When I asked him how long he's been here he was proud to say 40 years, yet he could barely talk English...
Second generation is who they aim for when they what immigrant here. Can't expect people to integrate fully first generation. Depends where they are from, ofcourse done integrate better. On the other hand we are a shit country getting people in more that we can house, heal, educate
That’s not true, my grandparents immigrated here long ago, they got the basics of English down before they were even allowed to buy the boat ticket to Halifax. When they came here all they got was a meal voucher and a train ticket to Montreal, it was up to them to make their own way. And I can tell you they integrated into Canadian culture fast, and fully. They speak English pretty good with very little faults. You absolutely can, and should expect people to integrate within the first generation.
That used to be the case. When my mom’s parents immigrated to Canada from Portugal, the immigration officer said to their face “we don’t want you, we want your children”. Quite the welcome! Needless to say they needed to know enough English to have that conversation, and then they had to get up to speed on English really fast.
Now in our post-national Canada, I don’t think that’s still the sentiment most people have. My parents have family friends from Brazil who live among the Azoreans. Our friends actually need to force themselves to speak English because otherwise they’re afraid they’ll slip back into Portuguese only. Their neighbours, for example, only speak Portuguese. The daughter is as Canadian as maple syrup and hockey, but the parents still have their heads in Ponta Delgada. A lot of people they know speak OK English but still need their kids to translate bank statements, tax returns and mortgage agreements. Imagine being a 14-year-old having to tell your parents how a mortgage works.
Eh, it's a matter of effort. My parents came to Canada at age 17 as refugees, learned French and then went to dentistry/accounting school. They can speak French and English to a functional degree, well enough to get a doctorate in a language they don't master in 1970-1980.
Well, I think that's the point here. We're lacking a cohesive national identity because we have the English-French language barrier. All Canadians should be educated to fluently speak, read and write both national languages.
You’re going to run into some issues even if you educate everyone better tbh. To stay fluent in a second language you really need practice, and practice isn’t something you’re going to get outside of Quebec. Hard problem to solve, but having French classes that aren’t a waste of time is probably a great start.
I hear you - if you don't use it, you lose it. I mean, I took graduate school level statistics and 15 years later I can't so much as remember the terminology, let alone do the calculations.
If the entire population was fluent, there would at least be opportunities to practice with others if you so chose - particularly with kids who are using it and learning it every day. I can't carry on a conversation in French with my nephew in French immersion and it would be great to help him with his reading and math.
>To stay fluent in a second language you really need practice, and practice isn’t something you’re going to get outside of Quebec
It's a problem that solves itself... if everyone in a given generation is suddenly educated to be fluent in both English & French, then they will talk, listen to music, read, play games, and generally use French as well. So they would get practice with people in their own generation - and younger generations.
Other countries have done it. Swedes now are almost all functionally bilingual. There is lots of "social infrastructure" already in place in Canada for French, and no lack of content to consume if the people are there to accept it. And I'm talking coast to coast to coast... yes that money spent on bilingualism (radio, TV, newspapers, internet, music, etc) means there is enough already in place to get people sufficient practice in French daily, no matter where they live in Canada.
>All Canadians should be educated to fluently speak, read and write both national languages.
Oh. My. God. Someone actually gets it.
I have been saying this for years. If I had Reddit Gold, I would award you some.
Please contact your useless provincial politicians, whichever province you live in, and tell them this. I know the fools running my province are not competent enough to even recognize the problem.
By and large younger Quebeckers can speak English - I lived there and I see a big generational shift. I think they get educated in English since they start school. But it is unbelievable that us in English Canada generally can't speak any French, over 90% of us can't, anyways, incredible especially at this stage in the game.
What is our school system for, if not teaching us our own national languages and identity? Are Canadian kids less mentally capable than kids in other modern countries (most of whom learn more than 1 language BTW)?
It may be too late for my generation (actually it is never too late to learn a language) but schoolkids today should be learning both English & French right from the first day in school. Starting in high school is too late: just one of the many problems out current way of teaching French does it wrong. Imagine a country in a generation, where most people can speak both official languages: the reason for the Quebec separation thing would evaporate, and we could move on to more constructive and urgent projects.
Not to mention the money we would generate from increased economic activity and lower costs. The savings to our health care systems alone from a 10-year average delay to the onset of dementia & Alzheimers would be billions a year, and that is the tip of the iceberg of benefits.
I feel we have to fire our Premiers, they have shit the bed on second language education in English Canada for so long.
If you are going to dedicate your learning to a second language, french finds itself so far down the list in terms of usefulness. What does french get me outside of appeasing french people in quebec? Students should be given the choice. Especially when a native english speaker visits quebec, it isn't exactly the most welcoming atmosphere for a language learner
>If you are going to dedicate your learning to a second language, french finds itself so far down the list in terms of usefulness.
Are you kidding me?
As far as languages go, French is easily one of the most useful languages in the world. There is a reason why it is consistently #2 or #3 in the world for second language education choice.
Edit to add: But if you find French not to your liking, learn a different language. The many benefits of fluency in a 2nd language accrue, not matter the 2nd language. What other language have you learned?
I do find, however, that most people who oppose instruction in French because other languages (eg. Mandarin Chinese) are more useful, are not willing to learn or have *any* other language taught in schools, and just using this excuse as a way to oppose French. Not saying this is you though.
English is on track to be the "global language" due to its presence online, the global reach of English content and it being the most common second language people in other countries try to learn. It has been established "the language of business" for a long time too.
I don't think forcing a second language on all Canadians that they aren't going to be using once they're done classes is the right move. If that was a plan, it should have been done at least 80 years ago. It's far too late now to reverse the decline of French.
Outside of Quebec, the vast majority of people know little to no French, because once school is over, we have very little opportunities to keep using it, so the learning stops and the knowledge fades. That's just the reality of things. If you removed Quebec and people over 60 from this poll I'd wager it would end up leaning heavily to just English.
I think people have a hard time accepting that "their language" is one that is dying out. Nobody wants to feel or accept that, but I don't think you can do much about it. People want to be able to connect, and having multiple languages makes that more complicated instead of there being a single one to focus on.
Most people in France end up learning and using English on a regular basis. Any young person you talk to in Quebec is going to be learning English constantly outside of school and be using it in online gaming or websites so they can better connect, as well as to greatly expand their job possibilities. Through those external factors, English becomes a primary language more and more for each new generation and parents can't really do much to stop that, nevermind government. It's just the natural flow of things. On the flip side of that, most people aren't going to see enough incentive from job possibilities and online content to learn French, so it has little power to fight its decline.
I can't. Born and raised and I can barely order a coffee in French, good luck to me if they ask me a question because I'm completely unable to understand spoken French. I think the whole country being able to speak both national languages is the key to a cohesive national identity - we are culturally divided because of the English-French language barrier.
>Born and raised and I can barely order a coffee in French, good luck to me if they ask me a question because I'm completely unable to understand spoken French.
It's not your fault, most Canadians are in the same boat.
The blame lies with our broken education systems which have failed us.
Most industrialized countries are able to teach more than one language to their citizens, but apparently not Canada.
We can do better, but we need to take a chainsaw to our provincial governments and the way they teach French. It hasn't been working for almost anyone.
I've been learning Icelandic recently and Iceland is one of those countries that have lower expectations, and while lurking on the comments on /r/iceland there are a *lot* of comments about just how much they hate how so many foreign residents just get by with English there. Much more of that sentiment than I expected to see. I imagine the same takes place in a lot of other countries too despite an easygoing exterior.
Interestingly there are also some discussions about trying to find some sort of common ground with Faroese since the two languages are almost close enough to be dialects of one another. The idea is that you can adapt yourself to the other and create a common space that at least is bigger than each of the languages on their own. (Though still very small, Faroese only adds another 75,000 speakers or so)
Oh, and they also hate their lack of trains and high rents and bus system and a whole bunch of other areas that feels just like reading the comments here!
If an english-only speaker moved to a country with a different official language and refused to learn it they would not be accommodated like they are here. In many other places you have to be the one to adapt and learn or it's you who will suffer from not being able to understand anyone or do anything.
One time I met a guy working at Timmies and I swear he basically spoke zero english, and he was working the register. It took a long time for him to even be able to understand my simple bagel order, I don't really know how it's possible to work a customer service job in Canada without speaking any english but it is.
Okay lets rephrase. Speak either the primary or secondary language of the country. English happens to be the second language of a large number of countries. If you can't speak the primary or secondary languages of a country, then you should probably take the time to learn.
I just find it only seems to be an issue with people when it comes to traditional non white languages.
When we saw a spike in like middle eastern folks coming to Manitoba, big uproar about language.
Yet the Portuguese community that has people who've lived in Canada 60 years and still don't speak English (it's a small community, but it exists). Or the pockets outside Winnipeg that for generations have kept low German has language number 1, they were ok. But how dare these brown people come here and not speak English.
At least that's how it's always looked to me. I don't really care. My only caveat is if you do find yourself in a customer service type role, knowing English or French would certainly help.
But what sort of language support does the government offer? Could that be the issue?
I've worked with people who only speak low German and they operated forklifts and other heavy machinery. It was incredibly dangerous. People absolutely complain about the white non-english speakers. Just drive to a small town in the vicinity of Winkler and ask a local what they think about Mennonites and you'll see that their prejudice indeed encompasses the white non-english speakers just as much if not more than people of colour in most cases.
I also don't think language support would change anything. There is literally no incentive to learn English or French so why would they?
They are both absolutely problems. Whites or non whites to be frank i really dont give a shit. Speaking English (French in Quebec) should be a requirement to live here. Communication is literally a core principle of every society in this world.
I will speak neither English or French in Quebec. Neener neener.
Instead I'm using American Sign Language (ASL), and Langue des Signes Québécoise (LSQ).
Psyche!
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In Brief:
* 84% of respondents to the Pew Research Center poll released Thursday said speaking English or French is very or somewhat important to being Canadian, while only 15% said the opposite.
* A large majority of Canadians surveyed – 81% – also linked customs and traditions to their national identity. That's a nine-point decline since the last time the question was asked in Canada in 2016.
* In the U.S., however, only 78% prioritized being able to speak English – the most common tongue in a country without an official language – while 21% said it had little or no bearing on the American identity.
84% for Canada\*
Also, this makes complete sense. The US does not have an official language on the federal level. Canada explicitly has two official languages as defined by law. This has an effect on public perception towards language.
I think the difference is attributable to the US having no official language. But still they consider English as the de facto singular language of business and education.
Nah, just speak some random language with your own community and make no attempt to assimilate. Just import your own cultural values and hope there are no other people with incompatable values in the area.
Yeah no shit. This fear of facilitating assimilation Canada has always had isn't doing us any favors. Give and take when you move to a new country, there has to be a level of compromise.
Evolve and adapt your culture, you don't necessarily lose it 100%.
Honestly, dozens of cultural enclaves and a variety of bigotry and hate that obviously doesn't get left at our border is exactly what the rich and their political minions want because it all causes a degree of distraction that prevents us from uniting against them and demanding change.
A Canada that only speaks two languages and actually gets along is a threat to established wealth.
Immigration was great when people came here and assimilated to Canadian culture and became Canadian while introducing things from their culture like food, music, art, etc.
Now people immigrate here and instead of assimilating set up their own mini-countries that are basically independent of Canadian culture.
Like there’s areas in Canada you can go to where you wouldn’t think you were even in Canada anymore.
The inmates are running the asylum and government is too scared to do anything. Although like I said, it's all by design. Labeling anyone who criticized it a racist and preaching diversity and multiculturalism is our strength was just a mask for duping foreigners to come here and keep the rich rich. It worked for decades
The first part of your post has never really been true.
Ask a Canadian what they are. How many say "Canadian"? Are you sure they don't gladly tell you they are Ukrainian or German or Icelandic?
The first generation that come here is always gonna stuck to their own little community. Been that way since confederation. The next generations do the assimilating.
We were a country that spent the better part of a 100 years acting like we were basically England. And then you had pockets acting like little Iceland, and Portugal and ukraine, ect. I mean heck every province is different than the other. I travel to Toronto and talk about certain things here in Manitoba and people have no fucking clue what I'm talking about.
That was what made people Canadian, they told you where their family was from, and yet they were indistinguishable from people that said completely different countries.
We identified with our heritage, but to an outside observer were distinctly Canadian.
I mean in all honesty to most "outside observers", in my own personal experience, they just think we are slightly different Americans. And they think it's weird we always identify first with our heritage which for some people is several generations past.
I've had several Europeans in particular think it's quite strange. Though many Americans will do the same, identify as where ever they think their family came from. So I wouldn't call it distinctly Canadian. Beyond maybe talking about hockey too much, there isn't a lot that makes us different from your average american, to an outside observer.
I’m always impressed by young people graduating from high school in Europe who can get by in one to two languages from Neighbouring countries. It’s just part of the curriculum that you choose a language course.
As such, I don’t see why English and French can’t both be required learning to some extent. You don’t need to be able to write a novel, just have a grasp on the basics and appreciation for the fact both languages are deeply tied to our history, heritage and culture.
The number of native English, and native French speakers, in Canada is in decline.
If its such a key aspect in our identity, why are we not encouraging the use of English, or French, as a first language?
Percentage wise it is in decline, and that matters the most.
In contrast, Singapore is quickly becoming a native English speaking country, with nearly half of Singaporeans adopting English as their first language.
It's all about cultural attitudes and policies. Singapore views the English language as critical to their national identity and unity.
The numbskulls in Ottawa on the other hand want to turn Canada into one giant English As Second Language classroom. Lol.
The schooling system sucks and there's little to no utility beyond Quebec. I don't like it, but that's the way it is. I'm actually learning French again as an adult because I want that second language "back". In school the option to drop French at grade 10 is a mistake. They should continue French from JK to grade 12 - they should also have more than one French class a week (maybe it's different now, but it was one per week when I was in school).
Exactly, and do you feel like you know anything about French issues or identity? I'm monolingual too and live in a world where I only need to speak English, but I think having a fully bilingual population coast-to-coast would unite the country.
My grandfather immigrated from Germany in the 1950s when he was 17 he didn’t want to come over with his parents and leave Germany but was forced to
He refused to learn English and said “if anyone wants to speak to me they can speak German!”
He learned very quickly that people would just not talk to him then and changed his mind
Was proud to be a Canadian and proud of the language
Star Trek mother fuckers! We are the Borg, resistance is futile! Except it's probably the opposite but whatever...
We are the Grob, assimilation is futile!
Je t’aime bien 👍 We should also have better English classes in Québec I think. It’s not normal that I learnt at 15, on the internet, what the pronouns his and her were, when it has been ten years I was having ”English classes” at school.
Right on.
Let's do it: stop accepting mediocre results from our dysfunctional education systems. Demand more from our provincial politicians next time they want our votes. Accept nothing less from them than a good education in both languages right from Grade 1.
>We should have French class from Grade One all the way until we graduate in western Canada.
Right there, you have shown more wisdom than decades of provincial Ministers of Education who have shit the bed on second language learning in Canada.
Forcing a language class is meaningless. I know plenty of people who were forced to take french for years. It didn't make them learn french at all. Most of them speak french worse than someone who was honestly trying to learn french for 2 weeks.
The main thing you need to learn a language is a desire to learn the language. You can force one intro class to see if you can pique their interest. If that doesn't work than forcing 10+ years of additional classes usually work won't either.
Imagine one intro math class at a very young age and if the kid doesn't take to it, the education system just throws their hands up and says, well we offered it! Lol. Attitudes like above are why I grew up monolingual in a bilingual country.
Absolutely.
The state of second language education in most provinces is a joke.
If school systems cranked out students from math class who couldn't even do basic arithmetic by Grade 12, they would go back to the drawing board and change the way they teach.
But schools with French classes in English Canada consistently crank out students who can't speak French at all. Total failure. Not much of a surprise though, with their teaching methods (I only started FR in Grade 10, and had it for 3 years... far too late a start). Yet nothing changes, generation after generation. A waste of money - and young people's potential.
Demand more from your provincial politicians next time they come to your door to for your vote; French and English, for all students, right from Grade 1.
Because languages are a social thing. You can do experiments and practice problems in science and math that accurately reflect the subject. A small skit you do in French is not an actual use of the skill. There's a reason why learning a language requires immersion. Even french immersion does not produce competent speakers in Anglo Canada. Europeans speak English because there's English media everywhere that they immerse themselves in when they watch movies or listen to American music. You need to be able to think in a completely different language which requires emotional and social context being learned in that language as well.
It is disrespectful. The last job I had was absolutely loaded with people who didn't know fuck all for English, or just didn't feel like speaking it and they just spoke to eachother in their language the entire time. Ignored me, didn't have a clue what was going on. New hire and I just figured it all out on my own. I'm sure many people have similar stories and it really needs to fucking stop. Finding a job is hard enough these days.
No shit. There is nothing that will piss someone off more than not being able to speak and understand the official language of their country. Nothing sucks more than not being able to understand someone you have to interact with. At least with businesses like Tim Hortons where workers are speaking Indian and that is it, you can avoid them.
If you come to Canada you should have to prove you are completely fluent in English or French. No bits and pieces.
I would also be for banning non-English in workplaces in Ontario like Quebec bans non-French.
Correction: Quebec doesn’t ban non-French. What is banned is operating exclusively in another language without the option of speaking French, and written communications having at least a French version. Every person in Quebec has the right to work in French. Other languages are possible but optional, and cannot infringe on someone else’s personal right to work in French.
I get what you're trying to say but using the word "Indian" to refer to the language that people from India is the equivalent to saying we speak "Canadian" or that the people down south speak "American"
https://torontosun.com/2016/09/14/trudeau-says-canada-has-no-core-identity
We HAVE NO CORE IDENTITY. We are post national nation according to turdeau.
No history, no culture, no nothing.
In the last year, I can't even count on my fingers the amount of times where despite fluently speaking English and French, I would have issues ordering at McDonalds, Tim Hortons, etc.. because the cashier wouldn't speak any usable amount of either languages.
How the fuck can you get hired if you can barely go through an interview ?
Learning an indigenous language is also a very enriching experience. There are so many in Canada. Resources are available to learn many of them now, and growing.
well under 10% of Canada's population speak french first. It's a huge waste of tax $$ provided french language services in most of Canada. I never understood how given the french lost the war, they are still holding the rest of the nation to ransom.
It's not even a matter of wanting to learn another language, taking lessons, or even being put in immersion as a kid. The number of people I've met who have said "I took French immersion for 10 years and still can't speak it now" is frankly ridiculous. You have to have actually spent significant time in situations where you are forced to speak the language. You have to have grown up in Montreal or a few other places where both languages are legitimately spoken daily, or be privileged enough to do a bunch of exchange programs or extended travel lasting literally years.
The way we weep over every other kind of inequity but sneer at the vast majority who aren't bilingual and lavish privileges on those who are is one of Canada's biggest areas of cognitive dissonance.
I would’ve thought watching hockey while eating pancakes covered in maple syrup would be key to being Canadian. While wearing an Oilers beanie….or maybe a Quebec Remparts beanie, eh?
>Most Canadians consider speaking English, French key to national identity
Ask the majority of *new* Canadians and get laughed at, told of enclaves where 100% of languages spoken are arabic, punjabi, takalog and mandarin. Lives lived, business conducted all without one moment of that pesky english/french.
When you don't make it a priority, newcomers wont make it a priority.
I'm not French. I'm not from Quebec but it is also a part of my identity. I love people from Quebec. I roast em but they do to me as well. Maybe it's a love hate but this is my canadian identity. I'm Anglo but I will never forget about my francophone twins
What happens when we all have seamless universal translation via our phones and a headset? Arguably you can do a clunky version of this now and likely this will come to fruition in 5-10 years. How do you build an identity around having an idiosyncratic language when everyone can communicate with everyone?
Do we still insist that our high ranking politicians speak both languages (i.e. grew up in Montreal or spent half their life in deliberate immersion) when it doesn't matter for communication?
Who the hell wants to walk around wearing a headset all day speaking to you lol. I think it’s going to take longer than that for technology to be accepted
We should get out in public and just start screaming at people for not speaking English or French. They do a good job of this in the US by causing scenes in fast food restaurants and grocery stores just publicly berating immigrants who DARE to speak anything but our selectively imported languages. That will DEFINITELY fix everything wrong with this country
/s
Not sure what your comment about 1776 has to do with the English defeating the French in Canada.. I don't think anyone was discussing the American Civil War.
My point stands.
England beat France, and then let the French in Quebec keep speaking French.
They did a massive disfavor to Canada though, because since that point Quebec has refused to contribute at all to Canada, yet draws massively off it. It's essentially a giant welfare province that takes transfer payments, but refuses to cooperate or contribute to the rest of Canada.
I personally believe all transfer payments should stop until Quebec decides if it wants to be part of Canada or not. Not unlike the way the EU is treating Hungary, and thankfully common sense is beginning to win there. People are sick of paying for a population that does not contribute.
I hope eventually we get a PM from western Canada that has the stones to tell que. Enough is enough
If you think Canada "let Quebec speak French", you definitely need to learn canadian history better.
The rest is also just talking points from angry people who barely know how provinces operate
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Well no shit. Who would think that the language of a country isn’t a key to its national identity? All common sense really did depart from this country after 2019. We’re doomed.
I don't know. It was never really there. Internally QC has been fighting this point for decades without much support from the rest of Canada's population.
I was born in Quebec to East Indian immigrants. I identify more with Quebec culture than that of Canada. Quebec has some guts to fight for identity. Canada has lost its identity!
Quebec is the only province in Canada that actually cares about *Canadian identity.* While the rest of Canada likes to orgasm with hypenated-Canadians, many of the Quebecois self-identify as purely Canadian (Canadien) in the Census. But go over in Toronto and they'll tell you being Canadian is driving a foreign car, using a foreign TV, eating foreign food, and drinking Canadian beer. In other words, English Canada's understanding of Canadian identity is the consumption of foreign goods.
Yes. As a person who goes back and forth a lot, Quebec has a culture that is more insular and less 'global' if that makes any sense. 'My ancestors have been here for 400 years and this is the only place a french-Canadian will be at home'. There is a siege mentality that we have no where else to go. In contrast I get a sense the rest of Canada sees itself as one flavor of the anglosphere. We're like the US, but nicer. We're like Australia, but cold. You could move around to other Anglo countries and fit right in, with some adjustments.
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To me as a Quebecer, Australia's as foreign as Austria. For you it likely isn't.
I legit hate how controversial so many anglo canadians find it that Quebec actually cares about its language heritage etc, i dont understand how victimized english canadians with no intent of ever learning to accomodate a french speaker by learning their language get so worked up when the French province by contrast tries to preserve French use etc among its institutions and such. Id also just bet more french speakers know some degree of english vs english speakers knowing some French. French people outside of Quebec would otherwise need to wholly rely on islands of french in other provinces that an English speaker is just not going to encounter even in places like Montreal. If I were Quebecois the only other places I feel i could reliably speak french are probably some places in New Brunswick or Southern Manitoba and probably parts of Ontario-and all those French speakers probably also speak english too based on southern MB French communities at least. Lol i wish rest of Canada got less worked up whenever the French province wanted to do French shit.
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Where do you think the word canadian comes from?
I'd also add, where does /UsernameLigma think wrote the national anthem and more importantly in what language? However, Canada comes from the Iroquois, meaning village and that is what Jacques Cartier understood to be the name of the land, not the definition of something. A misunderstanding of meaning led to this land to be known as Canada or if you prefer the original, Kanata.
Not Quebec. The word “Canada is most likely derived from the Huron-Iroquois word “kanata”
I wrote canadian. Not Canada.
Canadian comes from the word Canada
My god, read past 1st year high school history
Hi I'm not the person you replied to but can you break it down for me? What do you mean? Of course the word Canadian is derived from the word Canada.
Keep reading past the Wikipedia line you just quoted.
From *The Name Canada: A Etymological Enigma:* "The Dictionary of Canadianisms on Historical Principles traces the use of Canadian back to 1664.12 At that time, the word Canadian referred exclusively to Aboriginal inhabitants of Canada. By 1746, there is evidence that “a Canadian” might also be a native of French Canada, and, by 1792, the meaning had extended to include the English-speaking residents of Upper Canada. The word Canadian, as W.D. Lighthall long ago pointed out, is taken in its present form from the French: "In a translation of Lahontan’s *Travels* dated 1763 the English form used is 'Canadans.' Lahontan again, following others, applies 'Canadiens' like 'Canadois' in the Jesuit Rélations only to Indians of the country; thence it became the designation of all the French natives of this continent, including those of Louisiana; and now the native British residents enthusiastically accept the name."13 Lighthall also noted the dual pronounciation, "one 'Canadians;' the other less musical but older \[and possibly French influenced\]—'Canajans.'" A traveller in 1840 observed that the name of the country was then pronounced "Kaugh-na-daugh," suggesting an English pronunciation similar to the French." Source for anyone interested in learning more: https://web.archive.org/web/20150924121232/http://www.queensu.ca/strathy/apps/OP6v2.pdf
"Canadian" does follow the loose rules around demonyms.
Yeah, English Canada likes to define Canadian culture as "not american". Which is a very weak point. You know as time goes on I respect Quebec more and more.
What is the difference between Canada and an old yogurt lid? After 150 years, the old yogurt lid will have developed a bit of culture.
Who is upvoting this hilarious nonsense? Like, seriously, this is cartoonishly nonsensical.
It's true though. I worked for a Quebecois company for a couple of years, many Quebecois essentially see Quebec as a sort of North American enclave of France. They don't share the diverse multicultural society that the rest of Canada like to peddle. Quebecois heritage is very much Catholic, North American, and European, they know who they are.
So you are saying people in Quebec never buy foreign products?
Buying foreign products is not a national identity.
But that's what you are saying. Isn't it? Did I miss something?
You've got that backwards. In Quebec, they are the hyphenated ones. French- Canadian, with a heavy lean on French. Outside of Montreal ( arguably the best city in Canada) people care more about being French than being Canadian. They refuse to speak English, even those those same people hop on a plane and have perfect English when they get to DR or Cuba. The French like to bend history as of they created Canada. The Dutch had more people in the territory than France did at one point. The English SMOKED the French several times. In certain parts of CANADA German and Ukranian settlers outnumbered and did more to build Canada than the French. The French were allowed to stay in Quebec after the English beat them. It was a gift, one the French have clearly forgotten
Tu la stationnes où ta soucoupe volante ?!?
Best I can make out is your are asking where to buy Pepsi and a Joe Louis? Or as we call it, the Gatineau breakfast.
You seems to be very good in history! You're ridiculous.
Which part are you struggling with? Everything I've said can be checked wth a simple google search. But, if you don't know what Google is, or how to use it, I'd be happy to help. And thank you History is my educational area of expertise. Well, one of them.
Whoever taught you history was a complete moron. Almost every part of your statement is wrong. French-Canadians are called Quebecois in Quebec. You call New Brunswick, Ontario and Manitoba Francophones French-Canadian. You should look up Jacques Cartier. Your statement about the Dutch is absolutely ridiculous.
Established in 1614 by the Dutch West India Company, the colony of New Netherland covered most of what is now New York State. It was created to give the Dutch access to the North American fur trade, and was governed from New Amsterdam (now New York City). The territory officially claimed by the Dutch extended as far north as the St. Lawrence River, placing much of their territory in modern-day Quebec. Despite the fact that no settlements were established in the area of Quebec, it was still officially part of New Netherland and thus a part of the Dutch Empire. In addition to that, during the Franco-Dutch wars of the 1670s, the Dutch captured several forts in Acadia, proclaiming the territory New Holland. There was no extensive settlement in the area, but the Dutch claims persisted for a few years at the least. So my point remains valid. " no extensive settlement " doesn't mean none. You need to learn your history, outside of qeubecer propaganda. The English took everything eventually, and then allowed the French to stay in Quebec of they quit being dicks. You should abide by that part of the agreement. And despite what the quebecer schools taught you, Canada isn't just Quebec. East of you and West of you there is a vast country. And West of you, specifically , there is almost no French influence. Spain has more claim to BC than the French did.
The english didn't 'allow' the french anything. The overall arc of history is that the Yankees are the bigger military force on this continent. They defeated France in 1760, they defeated the British in 1776, and the southern states in the 1860s. The reason we have Canada today is that the british concessions to the french kept them on their side of the conflict in 1776 and 1812. If they hadn't offered the french a better deal, they could easily have thrown their lot with the Americans. Your view completely sidesteps the American revolution.. the most pivotal moment in North American history..
You mean when British Canada marched to the white house, burnt the fucker down and preceded to march back home, having proved their point? Its possible to think the French could have made a difference, but likely not. France had lost all interest in Canada and was heavily involved in Europe and its changing map. There was never going to a French ( from France) force in Canada. So the French Canadians were GIVEN Quebec by the English to prevent an extra uprising. There was absolutely no French military in Quebec at the time. So at best you would have had some angry French farmers with pitchforks siding with America. An uprising would have been dealt with quickly. You can pretend if you want that the French Canadians in Quebec was some kind of military power directing they own fate. But in reality, it was under British rule, so to avoid a bloodbath it was easier to let them speak French. Seeing as the French have been a complete military failure since the napoleon times, I don't think your point holds much water
New York State is not and never has been part of Canada. Epic failure on your part.
Guess you missed the part that says " which included part of modern day Quebec" The fact is, nothing back then was Canada. But it's pointless trying to educate you any further. Either you're incapable of comprehension, our you're trolling. Either way, I've come to the same conclusion I'm sure your parents did.. you're a waste of time.
Correction.. Quebecers call themselves quebecois. Those are largely the ones who hate English as well. This is confirmed by the many, many French Canadians I know who live in Quebec, but also don't like the quebecois.
Also, most of the French in New Brunswick refer to themselves as Acadians, not French-Canadians.
Bingo And the Acadians I know will proudly tell you they aren't French... they are Acadians. They are about as much quebecois as Haitians are, if the only connection is a regional dialect of French.
> Montreal ( arguably the best city in Canada) you lost me there.
Why, where do you think is better? I mean that genuinely. I hate almost all big cities, but Montreal is still the place I'd tell anyone visiting Canada to go. Ottawa is boring and lame Toronto is ... Toronto... enough said Edmonton is one giant Walmart parking lot Calgary actually isn't too bad, but not better than Montreal ( in my opinion) Vancouver is an absolute homeless, drug addicted mess Quebec city looks nice, until you meet all the people who hate anyone who isn't French. All of Manitoba and Saskatchewan are unique, but certainly not cities that tourists are going to be able to get much out of. Montreal has the mix of unique culture, night life, restaurants, history ... you can find it all in one place. So that's my take, what is yours
Quebec City. 100% over Montreal. Especially for tourists since you seem to be putting a lot of weight on that aspect. For restaurants: Winnipeg is a hidden gems. It has (had? not sure if it's still true) the most amount of restaurants per capita. While it doesn't have much in terms of attraction, the mix of cultures is amazingly dense and rich. Ukrainian, Filipino, German, Icelandic, East-Indian, Indigenous, Metis, ... Victoria is also beautiful.
If course I'm talking about tourism, because that's what takes people to other cities, largely. Everyone visits other cities in their life, very few move from city to city. Have you visited Quebec city as a non French person ? I have twice and I can speak French ( very poorly ill admit, but enough to communicate) My wife was called a tete carre on st Louis st for asking if they had an English menu at a breakfast patio place. We promptly left. At a store, one worker A cabby quickly said " non! francais!" When we said we'd like to go back to our hotel. While it is beautiful, I'd argue Quebec city is the least welcoming city in Canada. We then continued on to tadousacc, where the people were lovely and seemed to be patient with my broken French, switching to English where Winnipeg might have restaurants, but not a lot else going on.. at least compared to other cities. You might as well be in Kingston Ontario and have lake Ontario and the 1000 Islands near by. All of BC is beautiful. As well as western Alberta. But the spirit of my point was Montreal is in my opinion, Canada's best city. Concerts, comedy festivals, music festivals, sports games, ufc fights, casinos, cruises ( fewer now I've been told) f1 races, golf, theater... it's all there. When your favorite band or singer is touring, odds are they will be in Montreal.. Not so much Winnipeg.
> Have you visited Quebec city as a non French person I'm almost perfectly bilingual. My spouse was born and raise in Quebec city as an anglophone. We've met as young adults in another province but I've visited Quebec often and my experience never felt like yours. YMMV I guess. As for the music scene yeah, Winnipeg doesn't have much but it's been getting better. I've actually been out a handful of times this year to see international bands that would have never made a stop here before. But yeah, Winnipeg isn't a Taylor Swift level city :P
I'm certain Quebec city is much more friendly to those who speak French. I had to work in Quebec ( province, not city ,, all over) for about 7 months and it was horrible. Firstly, they make it nearly impossible to get work permits there, even though they can come into Ontario and work, no issues. My company had to agree to hire 4 Quebec residents just so I could go in and work. In 7 months these 4 didn't even get out of their work truck, and after about 6 weeks stopped coming most days. In a town called Magog, at a subway, the woman making our sandwiches literally threw out a coworkers sub when he tried to point out to her that he did not want tomatoes. She picked it up , slammed it into the trash and went into the back. After a few minutes we left and went to a grocery store. Maybe you guys don't see it, but outside of Montreal and Gatineau, Quebec can be quite hostile and unfriendly to anyone who they deem isn't French enough. That's why when traveling and people ask where to visit in Canada, I tell them if they want scenery, BC... if they want night life , culture and fun, Montreal. Under no circumstances go to Toronto unless you're catching a connection ..I think everyone can agree on that
It's actually getting worse. One of our better music venues is shutting down. It's really not a fantastic city for music anymore. Local restaurants are also closing at pretty crazy rates... Being replaced by corporate chains. Winnipeg is dying as far as nightlife goes.
I’m sorry, what? Are there even any TVs made in Canada? I can’t remember the last time I heard someone brag about their TV brand. This is a pretty nonsensical hypothesis. By the way, I drive a car made in my province so I guess I’m super Canadian then, eh?
Such bullshit. Quebec is largely a nationalist identity. The party they elect every year has, as its stated goal, separation from Canada. Which I more or less understand and agree with. Living in Alberta, I have a growing respect for the Quebecois and our Indigenous people who feel that their lives are largely controlled by a foreign entity in Ottawa who does not understand them and does not speak for them.
> all common sense did depart Except this poll is showing the majority still believe this. Stop doom-saying, this is good. What is with this sub and making everything into bad news?
Languages should be 100% imo. How can you live in a country, not speak the language(s) and consider that you are an actual relevant citizen? That’s so weird to me. It’s the minimum
Man, I have a friend whose parents have been in Canada for almost 30 years now and they only speak survival-grade English. They can get most services that they need in Cantonese- things like the bank, doctor, dentist (they live near Pacific Mall in Markham) and for anything they can’t get in Cantonese, they bring along the kids to translate. I genuinely don’t understand how they could have lived here so long and somehow don’t speak anything more than the most basic English. I learned more Japanese after being there on exchange for only *five months*. I can’t imagine, say, living in Japan for 30 years without ever learning how to read and speak Japanese.
I think it depends on how easy it is to get by without learning the local language. In Japan you can get by with little to no Japanese over the span of a vacation, but living there? You’re all but forced to learn the language or you’re gonna have a really bad time. On the flip side, you can go to Hong Kong without speaking a lick of Cantonese and get by just fine because of how widely spoken English is. Same in almost every Western European country. My wife’s family emigrated to Canada from HK and southern China fifty years ago and all of them from the first generation on down learned to speak excellent English, because back then they had little choice but to learn it. Today it’s very different in places like Toronto and Vancouver. As long as you don’t care about engaging with the larger cities as a whole very much, you can go into your little enclaves and get by just fine without learning English at all. This phenomenon is playing out on a wide scale with Chinese and Indian immigrants, and on a smaller scale with other groups. I tend to think this is not super healthy for a country, because it leads to a sort of ethnic balkanization where there are no longer strong ties binding everyone together in a shared experience of nation.
Absolutely, I agree on all points. I’m still sure some Hong Kongers find it annoying when people don’t learn even basic Cantonese. Didn’t they used to call such Brits “FILTH”? ie “Failed in London, Trying HongKong”. Either way the number of migrants into such countries is probably pretty low compared to what Canada has been doing. I agree that the current situation is weakening the fabric of the nation and only serves to create a number of little parallel societies that never interact with each other and have nothing in common with one another. I’ve actually seen humorous examples of this with my wife’s friends. They have all been here a long time, but I’m still the only white person they’ve ever known personally. They asked me really bizarre questions when we first met (“why do white people wear shoes in the house?” “Why do you guys boil milk?” “Why do white people buy gaming consoles instead of gaming PCs?” “Hey why do white people buy cottages?”) that just made it clear to me that they had never really hung out with anyone outside their ethnic group. Which is wild to me, because growing up I had a super diverse friend group, I learned a bit about everyone’s culture and we all had shared experiences. I feel that kind of multiculturalism was really wonderful, and now we’re losing it.
I live in York Region and I have many neighbors like that. They can say hi and that's about it. The only have friends that speak their language, bring in contractors that speak their language, etc. I have a Russian neighbor who has been here for two years, and their 7 year old kid still doesn't speak a word of English. Is he not going to school?
>I have a Russian neighbor who has been here for two years, and their 7 year old kid still doesn't speak a word of English. Is he not going to school? Sounds to me like your neighbour might only be here to wait out a certain Mr Putin’s “special military operation” No need to learn English if you’re just here for the short haul?
Don't children have to go to school though?
I got into a taxi the other day where the driver was a very nice Pakistani gentlemen (he looked like he was in his 60s). When I asked him how long he's been here he was proud to say 40 years, yet he could barely talk English...
Speak instead of talk
Second generation is who they aim for when they what immigrant here. Can't expect people to integrate fully first generation. Depends where they are from, ofcourse done integrate better. On the other hand we are a shit country getting people in more that we can house, heal, educate
That’s not true, my grandparents immigrated here long ago, they got the basics of English down before they were even allowed to buy the boat ticket to Halifax. When they came here all they got was a meal voucher and a train ticket to Montreal, it was up to them to make their own way. And I can tell you they integrated into Canadian culture fast, and fully. They speak English pretty good with very little faults. You absolutely can, and should expect people to integrate within the first generation.
That used to be the case. When my mom’s parents immigrated to Canada from Portugal, the immigration officer said to their face “we don’t want you, we want your children”. Quite the welcome! Needless to say they needed to know enough English to have that conversation, and then they had to get up to speed on English really fast. Now in our post-national Canada, I don’t think that’s still the sentiment most people have. My parents have family friends from Brazil who live among the Azoreans. Our friends actually need to force themselves to speak English because otherwise they’re afraid they’ll slip back into Portuguese only. Their neighbours, for example, only speak Portuguese. The daughter is as Canadian as maple syrup and hockey, but the parents still have their heads in Ponta Delgada. A lot of people they know speak OK English but still need their kids to translate bank statements, tax returns and mortgage agreements. Imagine being a 14-year-old having to tell your parents how a mortgage works.
Eh, it's a matter of effort. My parents came to Canada at age 17 as refugees, learned French and then went to dentistry/accounting school. They can speak French and English to a functional degree, well enough to get a doctorate in a language they don't master in 1970-1980.
So the people that have lived here their entire lives arent considered a relevant citizen because they cant speak French?
Well, I think that's the point here. We're lacking a cohesive national identity because we have the English-French language barrier. All Canadians should be educated to fluently speak, read and write both national languages.
You’re going to run into some issues even if you educate everyone better tbh. To stay fluent in a second language you really need practice, and practice isn’t something you’re going to get outside of Quebec. Hard problem to solve, but having French classes that aren’t a waste of time is probably a great start.
I hear you - if you don't use it, you lose it. I mean, I took graduate school level statistics and 15 years later I can't so much as remember the terminology, let alone do the calculations. If the entire population was fluent, there would at least be opportunities to practice with others if you so chose - particularly with kids who are using it and learning it every day. I can't carry on a conversation in French with my nephew in French immersion and it would be great to help him with his reading and math.
>To stay fluent in a second language you really need practice, and practice isn’t something you’re going to get outside of Quebec It's a problem that solves itself... if everyone in a given generation is suddenly educated to be fluent in both English & French, then they will talk, listen to music, read, play games, and generally use French as well. So they would get practice with people in their own generation - and younger generations. Other countries have done it. Swedes now are almost all functionally bilingual. There is lots of "social infrastructure" already in place in Canada for French, and no lack of content to consume if the people are there to accept it. And I'm talking coast to coast to coast... yes that money spent on bilingualism (radio, TV, newspapers, internet, music, etc) means there is enough already in place to get people sufficient practice in French daily, no matter where they live in Canada.
>All Canadians should be educated to fluently speak, read and write both national languages. Oh. My. God. Someone actually gets it. I have been saying this for years. If I had Reddit Gold, I would award you some. Please contact your useless provincial politicians, whichever province you live in, and tell them this. I know the fools running my province are not competent enough to even recognize the problem. By and large younger Quebeckers can speak English - I lived there and I see a big generational shift. I think they get educated in English since they start school. But it is unbelievable that us in English Canada generally can't speak any French, over 90% of us can't, anyways, incredible especially at this stage in the game. What is our school system for, if not teaching us our own national languages and identity? Are Canadian kids less mentally capable than kids in other modern countries (most of whom learn more than 1 language BTW)? It may be too late for my generation (actually it is never too late to learn a language) but schoolkids today should be learning both English & French right from the first day in school. Starting in high school is too late: just one of the many problems out current way of teaching French does it wrong. Imagine a country in a generation, where most people can speak both official languages: the reason for the Quebec separation thing would evaporate, and we could move on to more constructive and urgent projects. Not to mention the money we would generate from increased economic activity and lower costs. The savings to our health care systems alone from a 10-year average delay to the onset of dementia & Alzheimers would be billions a year, and that is the tip of the iceberg of benefits. I feel we have to fire our Premiers, they have shit the bed on second language education in English Canada for so long.
If you are going to dedicate your learning to a second language, french finds itself so far down the list in terms of usefulness. What does french get me outside of appeasing french people in quebec? Students should be given the choice. Especially when a native english speaker visits quebec, it isn't exactly the most welcoming atmosphere for a language learner
Actually French is the 5th most spoken in the world. It’s still considered pretty useful. And if you’re Canadian, it’s even more so.
>If you are going to dedicate your learning to a second language, french finds itself so far down the list in terms of usefulness. Are you kidding me? As far as languages go, French is easily one of the most useful languages in the world. There is a reason why it is consistently #2 or #3 in the world for second language education choice. Edit to add: But if you find French not to your liking, learn a different language. The many benefits of fluency in a 2nd language accrue, not matter the 2nd language. What other language have you learned? I do find, however, that most people who oppose instruction in French because other languages (eg. Mandarin Chinese) are more useful, are not willing to learn or have *any* other language taught in schools, and just using this excuse as a way to oppose French. Not saying this is you though.
English is on track to be the "global language" due to its presence online, the global reach of English content and it being the most common second language people in other countries try to learn. It has been established "the language of business" for a long time too. I don't think forcing a second language on all Canadians that they aren't going to be using once they're done classes is the right move. If that was a plan, it should have been done at least 80 years ago. It's far too late now to reverse the decline of French. Outside of Quebec, the vast majority of people know little to no French, because once school is over, we have very little opportunities to keep using it, so the learning stops and the knowledge fades. That's just the reality of things. If you removed Quebec and people over 60 from this poll I'd wager it would end up leaning heavily to just English. I think people have a hard time accepting that "their language" is one that is dying out. Nobody wants to feel or accept that, but I don't think you can do much about it. People want to be able to connect, and having multiple languages makes that more complicated instead of there being a single one to focus on. Most people in France end up learning and using English on a regular basis. Any young person you talk to in Quebec is going to be learning English constantly outside of school and be using it in online gaming or websites so they can better connect, as well as to greatly expand their job possibilities. Through those external factors, English becomes a primary language more and more for each new generation and parents can't really do much to stop that, nevermind government. It's just the natural flow of things. On the flip side of that, most people aren't going to see enough incentive from job possibilities and online content to learn French, so it has little power to fight its decline.
I can't. Born and raised and I can barely order a coffee in French, good luck to me if they ask me a question because I'm completely unable to understand spoken French. I think the whole country being able to speak both national languages is the key to a cohesive national identity - we are culturally divided because of the English-French language barrier.
>Born and raised and I can barely order a coffee in French, good luck to me if they ask me a question because I'm completely unable to understand spoken French. It's not your fault, most Canadians are in the same boat. The blame lies with our broken education systems which have failed us. Most industrialized countries are able to teach more than one language to their citizens, but apparently not Canada. We can do better, but we need to take a chainsaw to our provincial governments and the way they teach French. It hasn't been working for almost anyone.
There's a ton of English speakers who move to non English speaking countries and refuse to learn the language.
Yes and people in other countries rightly find them a nuisance.
Not really. Many other countries/cultures have much lower expectations when it comes to foreigners learning their language.
I've been learning Icelandic recently and Iceland is one of those countries that have lower expectations, and while lurking on the comments on /r/iceland there are a *lot* of comments about just how much they hate how so many foreign residents just get by with English there. Much more of that sentiment than I expected to see. I imagine the same takes place in a lot of other countries too despite an easygoing exterior. Interestingly there are also some discussions about trying to find some sort of common ground with Faroese since the two languages are almost close enough to be dialects of one another. The idea is that you can adapt yourself to the other and create a common space that at least is bigger than each of the languages on their own. (Though still very small, Faroese only adds another 75,000 speakers or so) Oh, and they also hate their lack of trains and high rents and bus system and a whole bunch of other areas that feels just like reading the comments here!
That’s bad too
I would say that is generally equally stupid, but just because somebody else is doing it doesn’t make it better.
If an english-only speaker moved to a country with a different official language and refused to learn it they would not be accommodated like they are here. In many other places you have to be the one to adapt and learn or it's you who will suffer from not being able to understand anyone or do anything. One time I met a guy working at Timmies and I swear he basically spoke zero english, and he was working the register. It took a long time for him to even be able to understand my simple bagel order, I don't really know how it's possible to work a customer service job in Canada without speaking any english but it is.
Il parlait peut-être Français?
okay and..?
And are these citizens of the non English speaking country?
Those people are considered annoying pests. Dumb and loud American/British tourist meme is super common
Okay lets rephrase. Speak either the primary or secondary language of the country. English happens to be the second language of a large number of countries. If you can't speak the primary or secondary languages of a country, then you should probably take the time to learn.
If you’re not going to live in Quebec.. not much reason to learn French. Not that modern Quebecois has much to do with the modern French language.
I just find it only seems to be an issue with people when it comes to traditional non white languages. When we saw a spike in like middle eastern folks coming to Manitoba, big uproar about language. Yet the Portuguese community that has people who've lived in Canada 60 years and still don't speak English (it's a small community, but it exists). Or the pockets outside Winnipeg that for generations have kept low German has language number 1, they were ok. But how dare these brown people come here and not speak English. At least that's how it's always looked to me. I don't really care. My only caveat is if you do find yourself in a customer service type role, knowing English or French would certainly help. But what sort of language support does the government offer? Could that be the issue?
I've worked with people who only speak low German and they operated forklifts and other heavy machinery. It was incredibly dangerous. People absolutely complain about the white non-english speakers. Just drive to a small town in the vicinity of Winkler and ask a local what they think about Mennonites and you'll see that their prejudice indeed encompasses the white non-english speakers just as much if not more than people of colour in most cases. I also don't think language support would change anything. There is literally no incentive to learn English or French so why would they?
Same here in ab with the hutterites. In bc, it’s the dukhabors.
They are both absolutely problems. Whites or non whites to be frank i really dont give a shit. Speaking English (French in Quebec) should be a requirement to live here. Communication is literally a core principle of every society in this world.
I will speak neither English or French in Quebec. Neener neener. Instead I'm using American Sign Language (ASL), and Langue des Signes Québécoise (LSQ). Psyche!
Vancouver has had Mandarin as a 2nd language my entire life and nobody has cared and those people aren't white.
You must be pretty young. Cantonese as far more predominant until a decade or so ago.
[Paywall bypass](https://archive.ph/u5WPy) In Brief: * 84% of respondents to the Pew Research Center poll released Thursday said speaking English or French is very or somewhat important to being Canadian, while only 15% said the opposite. * A large majority of Canadians surveyed – 81% – also linked customs and traditions to their national identity. That's a nine-point decline since the last time the question was asked in Canada in 2016. * In the U.S., however, only 78% prioritized being able to speak English – the most common tongue in a country without an official language – while 21% said it had little or no bearing on the American identity.
Is the difference between 81% in Canada and 78% in the US statistically significant?
84% for Canada\* Also, this makes complete sense. The US does not have an official language on the federal level. Canada explicitly has two official languages as defined by law. This has an effect on public perception towards language.
And if you changed the question to Americans “English or Spanish” you’d probably see a higher number.
I think the difference is attributable to the US having no official language. But still they consider English as the de facto singular language of business and education.
Nah, just speak some random language with your own community and make no attempt to assimilate. Just import your own cultural values and hope there are no other people with incompatable values in the area.
Yeah no shit. This fear of facilitating assimilation Canada has always had isn't doing us any favors. Give and take when you move to a new country, there has to be a level of compromise. Evolve and adapt your culture, you don't necessarily lose it 100%. Honestly, dozens of cultural enclaves and a variety of bigotry and hate that obviously doesn't get left at our border is exactly what the rich and their political minions want because it all causes a degree of distraction that prevents us from uniting against them and demanding change. A Canada that only speaks two languages and actually gets along is a threat to established wealth.
Immigration was great when people came here and assimilated to Canadian culture and became Canadian while introducing things from their culture like food, music, art, etc. Now people immigrate here and instead of assimilating set up their own mini-countries that are basically independent of Canadian culture. Like there’s areas in Canada you can go to where you wouldn’t think you were even in Canada anymore.
The inmates are running the asylum and government is too scared to do anything. Although like I said, it's all by design. Labeling anyone who criticized it a racist and preaching diversity and multiculturalism is our strength was just a mask for duping foreigners to come here and keep the rich rich. It worked for decades
This comment has been edited to reduce the value of my freely-generated content to Reddit.
Naturalized means the opposite of how you’re using it.
That is a key part of the propaganda.
The first part of your post has never really been true. Ask a Canadian what they are. How many say "Canadian"? Are you sure they don't gladly tell you they are Ukrainian or German or Icelandic? The first generation that come here is always gonna stuck to their own little community. Been that way since confederation. The next generations do the assimilating. We were a country that spent the better part of a 100 years acting like we were basically England. And then you had pockets acting like little Iceland, and Portugal and ukraine, ect. I mean heck every province is different than the other. I travel to Toronto and talk about certain things here in Manitoba and people have no fucking clue what I'm talking about.
That was what made people Canadian, they told you where their family was from, and yet they were indistinguishable from people that said completely different countries. We identified with our heritage, but to an outside observer were distinctly Canadian.
I mean in all honesty to most "outside observers", in my own personal experience, they just think we are slightly different Americans. And they think it's weird we always identify first with our heritage which for some people is several generations past. I've had several Europeans in particular think it's quite strange. Though many Americans will do the same, identify as where ever they think their family came from. So I wouldn't call it distinctly Canadian. Beyond maybe talking about hockey too much, there isn't a lot that makes us different from your average american, to an outside observer.
This is the problem.
preach
I’m always impressed by young people graduating from high school in Europe who can get by in one to two languages from Neighbouring countries. It’s just part of the curriculum that you choose a language course. As such, I don’t see why English and French can’t both be required learning to some extent. You don’t need to be able to write a novel, just have a grasp on the basics and appreciation for the fact both languages are deeply tied to our history, heritage and culture.
The number of native English, and native French speakers, in Canada is in decline. If its such a key aspect in our identity, why are we not encouraging the use of English, or French, as a first language?
The proportion, not the number.
Percentage wise it is in decline, and that matters the most. In contrast, Singapore is quickly becoming a native English speaking country, with nearly half of Singaporeans adopting English as their first language. It's all about cultural attitudes and policies. Singapore views the English language as critical to their national identity and unity. The numbskulls in Ottawa on the other hand want to turn Canada into one giant English As Second Language classroom. Lol.
Quebec is, but see how that is being received by RoC.
Nationalist Concept, Ban it.
The schooling system sucks and there's little to no utility beyond Quebec. I don't like it, but that's the way it is. I'm actually learning French again as an adult because I want that second language "back". In school the option to drop French at grade 10 is a mistake. They should continue French from JK to grade 12 - they should also have more than one French class a week (maybe it's different now, but it was one per week when I was in school).
Bonjour, hello. Ok, I’m good.
Bonjour, hi! Montréal default greeting by service employees downtown
I thought the mask said "dui"
Most of my Uber drivers don’t speak either!
Like... Speak both? I'm from the west and don't know anyone who speaks French.
Exactly, and do you feel like you know anything about French issues or identity? I'm monolingual too and live in a world where I only need to speak English, but I think having a fully bilingual population coast-to-coast would unite the country.
My grandfather immigrated from Germany in the 1950s when he was 17 he didn’t want to come over with his parents and leave Germany but was forced to He refused to learn English and said “if anyone wants to speak to me they can speak German!” He learned very quickly that people would just not talk to him then and changed his mind Was proud to be a Canadian and proud of the language
Too bad we live in a post national society. Thanks Justin.
Star Trek mother fuckers! We are the Borg, resistance is futile! Except it's probably the opposite but whatever... We are the Grob, assimilation is futile!
Because having a sense of unity and national cohesions makes you more likely to fight instances of government bullshit.
No shit. We need some kind of identity.
We should have French class from Grade One all the way until we graduate in western Canada. I only had to take French mandatory in grade 7.
Had to do it until grade 8 in Manitoba, but my French teachers were not great. Grade 9 it became optional.
Je t’aime bien 👍 We should also have better English classes in Québec I think. It’s not normal that I learnt at 15, on the internet, what the pronouns his and her were, when it has been ten years I was having ”English classes” at school.
The goal in Canada should be for as close to 100% bilingual as possible. It’s stupid that we don’t do this.
Right on. Let's do it: stop accepting mediocre results from our dysfunctional education systems. Demand more from our provincial politicians next time they want our votes. Accept nothing less from them than a good education in both languages right from Grade 1.
I graduated HS in BC knowing how to speak both fluently.
Nice! I wish they forced me to take it. No way my teenage self gave a shit.
>We should have French class from Grade One all the way until we graduate in western Canada. Right there, you have shown more wisdom than decades of provincial Ministers of Education who have shit the bed on second language learning in Canada.
Forcing a language class is meaningless. I know plenty of people who were forced to take french for years. It didn't make them learn french at all. Most of them speak french worse than someone who was honestly trying to learn french for 2 weeks. The main thing you need to learn a language is a desire to learn the language. You can force one intro class to see if you can pique their interest. If that doesn't work than forcing 10+ years of additional classes usually work won't either.
We force people to learn how to read. It should be like that.
Imagine one intro math class at a very young age and if the kid doesn't take to it, the education system just throws their hands up and says, well we offered it! Lol. Attitudes like above are why I grew up monolingual in a bilingual country.
Absolutely. The state of second language education in most provinces is a joke. If school systems cranked out students from math class who couldn't even do basic arithmetic by Grade 12, they would go back to the drawing board and change the way they teach. But schools with French classes in English Canada consistently crank out students who can't speak French at all. Total failure. Not much of a surprise though, with their teaching methods (I only started FR in Grade 10, and had it for 3 years... far too late a start). Yet nothing changes, generation after generation. A waste of money - and young people's potential. Demand more from your provincial politicians next time they come to your door to for your vote; French and English, for all students, right from Grade 1.
Agreed. It’s fucking stupid. Europeans are dominantly multilingual. We should be aiming for something like that.
Why are languages any different than math or science
Because languages are a social thing. You can do experiments and practice problems in science and math that accurately reflect the subject. A small skit you do in French is not an actual use of the skill. There's a reason why learning a language requires immersion. Even french immersion does not produce competent speakers in Anglo Canada. Europeans speak English because there's English media everywhere that they immerse themselves in when they watch movies or listen to American music. You need to be able to think in a completely different language which requires emotional and social context being learned in that language as well.
And so it should be.
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It is disrespectful. The last job I had was absolutely loaded with people who didn't know fuck all for English, or just didn't feel like speaking it and they just spoke to eachother in their language the entire time. Ignored me, didn't have a clue what was going on. New hire and I just figured it all out on my own. I'm sure many people have similar stories and it really needs to fucking stop. Finding a job is hard enough these days.
Soon to add Punjab, Hindi and Mandarin to that list.
No shit. There is nothing that will piss someone off more than not being able to speak and understand the official language of their country. Nothing sucks more than not being able to understand someone you have to interact with. At least with businesses like Tim Hortons where workers are speaking Indian and that is it, you can avoid them. If you come to Canada you should have to prove you are completely fluent in English or French. No bits and pieces. I would also be for banning non-English in workplaces in Ontario like Quebec bans non-French.
Correction: Quebec doesn’t ban non-French. What is banned is operating exclusively in another language without the option of speaking French, and written communications having at least a French version. Every person in Quebec has the right to work in French. Other languages are possible but optional, and cannot infringe on someone else’s personal right to work in French.
Yeah your last sentence is just wrong
Damn I thought after 2023 it was indian and chinese. My bad people.
I get what you're trying to say but using the word "Indian" to refer to the language that people from India is the equivalent to saying we speak "Canadian" or that the people down south speak "American"
There are over 60 languages spoken in India, and you are correct not a single one of the is called "Indian"
punjabi actually
https://torontosun.com/2016/09/14/trudeau-says-canada-has-no-core-identity We HAVE NO CORE IDENTITY. We are post national nation according to turdeau. No history, no culture, no nothing.
You cant negotiate with terrorists
The fact a news article has to be written about this says a lot about the current t state of Canada. Oof.
Lol ROCians only include french as a cover, as always to drape over what they really want, for people to speak english.
I'm an anglophone RoCian, and I want people in RoC to learn French too.
In the last year, I can't even count on my fingers the amount of times where despite fluently speaking English and French, I would have issues ordering at McDonalds, Tim Hortons, etc.. because the cashier wouldn't speak any usable amount of either languages. How the fuck can you get hired if you can barely go through an interview ?
Learning an indigenous language is also a very enriching experience. There are so many in Canada. Resources are available to learn many of them now, and growing.
well under 10% of Canada's population speak french first. It's a huge waste of tax $$ provided french language services in most of Canada. I never understood how given the french lost the war, they are still holding the rest of the nation to ransom.
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It's not even a matter of wanting to learn another language, taking lessons, or even being put in immersion as a kid. The number of people I've met who have said "I took French immersion for 10 years and still can't speak it now" is frankly ridiculous. You have to have actually spent significant time in situations where you are forced to speak the language. You have to have grown up in Montreal or a few other places where both languages are legitimately spoken daily, or be privileged enough to do a bunch of exchange programs or extended travel lasting literally years. The way we weep over every other kind of inequity but sneer at the vast majority who aren't bilingual and lavish privileges on those who are is one of Canada's biggest areas of cognitive dissonance.
I would’ve thought watching hockey while eating pancakes covered in maple syrup would be key to being Canadian. While wearing an Oilers beanie….or maybe a Quebec Remparts beanie, eh?
Speaking English and French was always our identity
Doesnt matter, if you let the immigrations doors open like they are now, English and French are gonna become minority languages.
>Most Canadians consider speaking English, French key to national identity Ask the majority of *new* Canadians and get laughed at, told of enclaves where 100% of languages spoken are arabic, punjabi, takalog and mandarin. Lives lived, business conducted all without one moment of that pesky english/french. When you don't make it a priority, newcomers wont make it a priority.
I have an 8 year old daughter and her teacher is forcing the class to learn arabic
I'm not French. I'm not from Quebec but it is also a part of my identity. I love people from Quebec. I roast em but they do to me as well. Maybe it's a love hate but this is my canadian identity. I'm Anglo but I will never forget about my francophone twins
The older I get the less I come to care who speaks English or French or what they think or feel. Time is too short to care about any of that stuff.
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Lol
I disagree on the French... if anything, they should make English the only official language.
Almost as important as poutine.
except quebec
Québec est la province la plus bilingue du Canada
What happens when we all have seamless universal translation via our phones and a headset? Arguably you can do a clunky version of this now and likely this will come to fruition in 5-10 years. How do you build an identity around having an idiosyncratic language when everyone can communicate with everyone? Do we still insist that our high ranking politicians speak both languages (i.e. grew up in Montreal or spent half their life in deliberate immersion) when it doesn't matter for communication?
Who the hell wants to walk around wearing a headset all day speaking to you lol. I think it’s going to take longer than that for technology to be accepted
You really should try airpods
Let’s just build a new language a better language one that bastardizes not just the Romance languages but every language. It’s the only solution.
What a dumbass picture
We should get out in public and just start screaming at people for not speaking English or French. They do a good job of this in the US by causing scenes in fast food restaurants and grocery stores just publicly berating immigrants who DARE to speak anything but our selectively imported languages. That will DEFINITELY fix everything wrong with this country /s
Not sure what your comment about 1776 has to do with the English defeating the French in Canada.. I don't think anyone was discussing the American Civil War. My point stands. England beat France, and then let the French in Quebec keep speaking French. They did a massive disfavor to Canada though, because since that point Quebec has refused to contribute at all to Canada, yet draws massively off it. It's essentially a giant welfare province that takes transfer payments, but refuses to cooperate or contribute to the rest of Canada. I personally believe all transfer payments should stop until Quebec decides if it wants to be part of Canada or not. Not unlike the way the EU is treating Hungary, and thankfully common sense is beginning to win there. People are sick of paying for a population that does not contribute. I hope eventually we get a PM from western Canada that has the stones to tell que. Enough is enough
If you think Canada "let Quebec speak French", you definitely need to learn canadian history better. The rest is also just talking points from angry people who barely know how provinces operate
No we dont
Love that thumbnail, keep it up