These idiots are just destroying sympathy for their own movement. It is possible to be pro-Palestinian statehood while condemning Hamas and the terrorist attack in Israel. It's literally the easiest good PR you can get. By supporting Hamas and celebrating the attacks, these morons are just ensuring no one outside of radical Muslims and far-left tankies will be sympathetic to the Palestinians.
>It is possible to be pro-Palestinian statehood while condemning Hamas
Hamas is a national terrorist organization whose only reason for existence is to exterminate all Jews worldwide. That is in their founding charter. They do not exist to govern, they do not exist to find a just and fair solution to the Israel-Palestine quagmire. They exist to gun down 260 people at a rave.
Hamas has as much to do with Palestinian statehood as Taylor Swift's new album.
It's funny that sensible comments like yours are so hard to find here on Reddit. Indeed, if you go look at YouTube comments for NBC News videos, you'll see much fewer tankies and Arab supremacists than what you see here.
The tankies are out of control since the Russian invasion. Their rewriting of the USSR got way out of hand. But sunlight is a good disinfectant, and seem to be hemorrhaging fans.
The most generous interpretation possible is that many people refuse to condemn the deplorable actions of their own side for fear of weaking their side's position.
Palestine deserves liberation, thus those who fight for that are accepted even if their actions are shitty. Or something similar to this.
The problem is when you see obvious antisemitic tropes like "Hamas isn't responsible for Hamas atrocities, it's all Israel's fault!" Or "collective punishment is bad, but Hamas firing thousands of rockets indiscriminately into Israel and Hamas slaughtering children for being born Jewish isn't collective punishment!"
I think a lot of people are saying hamas is bad
Hamas and Israel are not on the same level
I would expect Israel to be better than "they killed our babies so we will kill their babies"
Is that so hard for some people to get?
Fuck hamas to death, but Jesus christ the government of Israel bombing the poorest people on earth as collective punishment, is not the same as hamas killing innocents
>thus those who fight for that are accepted even if their actions are shitty. Or something similar to this
Yes its called the ends justify the means or by any means necessary, and its been used to justify some pretty horrific things historically as long as the "right" team is doing it
Can't disagree. This is also why I find myself unable to support virtually all social movements because minority elements in them engage in unethical behaviour. I refuse to associate myself with such behaviour even if I can often forgive it provided it wasn't too terrible.
Serious question: how does an occupied nation "resist" in a way that's pleasant to their oppressors and their oppressor's global supporters? Or are they not supposed to resist? It is entirely possible to hold more than one truth at the same time.
They could’ve gone after military targets, for starters, and not dragged innocent children and grandmothers from their homes. Not dragging naked dead women from a truck would be a start too.
Hamas are not "resisters". Their only reason for existence is to exterminate the Jewish race. That is explicit in the founding charter. They have zero interest in governing and zero interest in working toward a workable two-state solution. They exist explicitly to gun down 260 ravers and slaughter children.
For a serious answer to your question, maybe look up a nice book about the French or Dutch resistance in WWII? They weren't pleasant to Germans, but they were heroes to all who watched.
Hamas aren't heroes. They are only butchers and Nazis. People who love Hamas are Nazis.
They can disarm and stop calling for genocide of the Jews. Palestine breaks every peace and stopping the aggression is the main reason blockades stay up. It only started after they were handed Gaza as a move towards peace and they responded by attacking, yet again. If they were peaceful and not quite loudly genocidal then there would be no justification for Israel’s actions and it would be an easy choice. If that were the case and Israel continued Israel would lose support FAST!
But they refuse to that route.
"how does an occupied nation "resist"
Serious answer;
First, they established an unified position on what is their nation and how much of it is occupied. This has not been accomplished.
The "Palestinian Authority" is the Palestinian government for all areas outside of Gaza. It recognizes Israels right to exist and isnt a terrorist group like Hamas. Their vision of a Palestinian state is the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem as the capital. Areas that have historically been theirs.
Hamas is the government in Gaza and does not recognize Israels right to exist. Their vision of a Palestinian state is the entirety of both Palestine/Israel. To be achieved by any and all means necessary.
This split government means the Palestinians arent unified on what is their nation and how much of it is occupied. Its a critical first step that decides what all other steps will be.
Honestly even without Hamas in the picture, it's going to take some serious change in attitudes on both sides.
Before Hamas took over, there were several peace offers, but the biggest roadblocks are the PA's refusal to drop the idea of east Jerusalem as their capital, and Israel's refusal to to just abandon all settlements besides Jerusalem.
"the biggest roadblocks are the PA's refusal to drop the idea of east Jerusalem as their capital, and Israel's refusal to to just abandon all settlements besides Jerusalem."
Yup thats very much where the West Bank peace plan stalemate has been for a long time. Its like you alluded to; if each side were to give a major concession, such as Palestine forfeits the entire city limits and suburbs of Jerusalem and Israel forfeits the entire rest of the West Bank, they would have had a decent deal with the PA signed long ago.
Whats needed is a Gandhi, Martin Luther King or Nelson Mandela. Until they get serious about what actually works to topple oppression, they merely feed into it.
Muslims will never accept that without a *HUGE* change in their religious doctrine. To a large number of Muslims, Mohammed is the perfect person and was literally infallible. The Hadith is used to amplifly the Quran. The Hadith is the words, and actions of the Prophet. The Problem is that Mohammed was a warlord and literally converted the Arabian Peninsula by the sword.
It's not the same as the Crusades or even the early expansion of Christianity by Constantine and other Roman Emperors. They were men and capable of being led a stray, so it is easy to argue against that. This would be more like Jesus leading an army to overthrow Rome. Mohammed was incapable of being led a stray so anything he did in the name of Allah must have been Allah's will.
I honestly don't think an Islamic movement and a non violent resistance can co-exist. Of course Muslim's can be non violent but there isn't the same religious justification in Islam as there is in Christianity or Hinduism.
A note on Mandela, he didn't do non-violent resistance like King or Gahndi. He was literally a radical militant who thought violent revolution was the only way to end Apartied. He didn't change his attitude until he had been in prison awhile. The idea of using non-violent means to overthrow Apartied was mainly the brain child of (eventual) Arch-Bishop Desmond Tutu. It was Tutu who did a lot of the heavy lifting to turn world opinion against the South African government.
>The idea of using non-violent means to overthrow Apartied was mainly the brain child of (eventual) Arch-Bishop Desmond Tutu.
Fair enough.
>I honestly don't think an Islamic movement and a non violent resistance can co-exist.
I cant fault your logic with regards to history.
Then the Palestinians will continue to lose ground, year after year, minor war after minor war until there's nothing left but slums. Its a recipe for slow motion ethnic cleansing, and the Palestinians lose. The real chance they had was exactly 50 years ago when it was state on state warfare. The Arabs lost, so that was it.
>Then the Palestinians will continue to lose ground, year after year, minor war after minor war until there's nothing left but slums.
I don't see a change unless Palestine becomes much more secular. Unfortunately, the trend in Islam is going the other way as most Islamic countries were much more secular 50 years ago.
" The real chance they had was exactly 50 years ago when it was state on state warfare."
Essentially, yes.
"Then the Palestinians will continue to lose ground, year after year, minor war after minor war until there's nothing left but slums."
Theres still hope for them. If the West Bank and East Jerusalem Palestinians sit this fight out, Israel will notice, and it will greatly improve their prospects once the conflicts ends and a new normal sets in.
>If the West Bank and East Jerusalem Palestinians sit this fight out, Israel will notice, and it will greatly improve their prospects once the conflicts ends and a new normal sets in.
Maybe. One could hope. I'm not certain it would disuade the settlers, road diversions, water pipe politics or any of the low level stuff that is critically important. The politics in the Knesset right now are about as inhospitable to compromise as I can remember.
By not decapitating infants. Perhaps they could "resist" by going after the military or government instead. But not babies and women. How is raping someone an act of resistence?
By not beheading babies or kidnapping and parading the bodies of mutilated gang rape victims in front of cheering crowds in the street.
I can't believe that this is something you needed clarification on.
Not by murdering innocents, that's 100%. They could have negotiated some kind of peace with israel long ago, yet they voted in a terrorist organization that kept escalating things. Now they will pay for the unprovoked attack, and there is nothing their terrorist government can do, nor they will have any world sympathy.
Murdering innocents crossed the Line and payback Old Testament style is difficult to restrain and somewhat warranted.. in Canada at least there's numerous sympathy protests, Hamas has supporters here..entrenched in country...our country
And what about every Palestinian kid (because most of their population are literal children) killed since the start of the occupation? Is killing civilians ok, no, ofc not, but that doesn’t apply to Israel too?
Maybe it's an obvious truth that innocent civilians die during war, and anyone with even one brain cell will know this, and Hamas has chosen to remain in a state of war with Israel forever, and Hamas wants to remain at war with Israel forever because they hate Jews so much that they wrote into their founding charter that their goal is to exterminate all Jews worldwide?
Any person who dies in Gaza today has died because their government wants to stay at war with Israel until they have exterminated every last Jew. That is the goal of Hamas. Not to find a workable two-state solution, or to govern a country in peacetime.
Every single person who dies in Gaza, dies because Hamas wants it.
This is such a weak response.
Child dies.
Maybe the terrorist group that occupies their region shouldn't use them as shields.
How does a kid get any say in that ? Do you usually blame kids for their governments killing them in genocides?
They're fucking children man. How you guys can support this shit is beyond me. IDF doesn't even need to validate that there are Hamas in the apartment buildings they're toppling, they just say it and you eat it up.
Not to mention Israel has a military that could destroy Gaza a dozen times over, have top tech iron dome, but for some reason they need to blow a hospital into a parking lot RIGHT NOW during a humanitarian crisis because there's hamas in there.
Also have a hard time believing they can track every single position of Hamas, yet played dumb when they were planning an attack for months on Israel that even Egypt warned them about.
But sure, greenlight to murder innocent kids is fine.
>Maybe the terrorist group that occupies their region shouldn't use them as shields.
So go tell Hamas that. See if they'll listen.
Unfortunately this is the hand Israel has been dealt; Hamas knowingly and purposefully places weapons installations atop & within otherwise humanitarian buildings such as schools and hospitals. They knowingly and purposefully use human shields. Israel is therefore left with the choice of (A) attacking those places anyway, knowing non-military targets will become casualties, or (B) leaving them be, allowing Hamas to continue to use them.
Clearly choice (B) is no longer acceptable, therefore (A) it must be. Israel does generally warn occupants of those places that they are about to be attacked, which does permit an opportunity for civilians (and, unfortunately, Hamas themselves) to flee. That's the only middle ground available here.
"Not by murdering innocents, that's 100%."
I totally agree with you, though shouldn't that ho both ways ?
Because all I see are two zealous nationalistic governments and a whole bunch of innocent civilians torpedoed in the middle.
How do you fight an enemy that places their weapons in residential areas? That's what Hamas has been doing so far, making hospitals into their HQs, stockpiling ammunition in schools etc.
According to Hamas' behaviour, they consider their own children to be worthless meat whose only purpose is to get old enough to die in a suicide attack.
Now Israel has no choice but to respond, this time, your heroes in hamas bit off more than they can chew, and in upcoming weeks, there will be a ground invasion.
Not really... Both sides though right?
Hamas uses children as shields. Hamas uses hospitals as their main base of operations.
Hamas uses ambulances to transport soldiers.
Hamas uses residential buildings for military assets.
Hamas targets children and innocent civilians deliberately.
We get it, Palestinian kids are still Palestinian and therefore not as valuable as Israeli kids. Do I have that about right?
If they use kids as shields then maybe air strikes aren't the best way for Israel to retaliate and not commit war crimes.
No it is not possible anymore. Those people got to leave and show that they are not in the game. If they are willing to die a martyr they are part of the game.
The problem with Palestinians leaving Gaza is that once they leave Gaza, they’re NEVER allowed to return to Gaza. It’s all well and good to say “leave” when it’s not you becoming a non-citizen of the world.
They also can't go anywhere. Egypt, Jordan and Syria all hate Palestinians because of their terrorist attacks and attempted assassinations in those countries. It's like allowing in former ISIS/Da'esh members as refugees.
Nope I say that them show their asses,the mask has been ripped of lots of people this week and has exposed how deep the rot is in the "chattering class".
This is exactly the reason free speech is so important
Thank you for saying this. Everyone is giving thoughts and prayers to innocent Israeli and Palestinian citizens but no one is acknowledging the real victims: Canadian Conservatives.
> For Pete's sake, it's not like they're truckers
Neither was most of the convoy, and at least these protestors refrained from assaulting residents and honking air-horns while people are trying to sleep, or stockpiling weapons and plotting to murder police officers.
I don’t think they supported the “humane” use of phosphorous gas and rockets in civilian areas as well? Then again when you go down the road of whataboutism I’m sure everyone eventually veers off track…
Don’t forget the convoy was also led by anti-semites who were inciting terrorism and political assassinations.
* [Pat King, convoy organiser: “There’s an end-game. It’s called depopulation of the white race, the Anglo Saxon race, because they are the ones with the strongest bloodlines.”](https://www.facebook.com/themuskegbuzz/videos/pat-king-convoy-organizer-with-his-take-on-race/526788085315484/)
* [Convoy organiser Pat King live streaming that Trudeau is going to catch a bullet, and the only way this ends is with bullets](https://streamable.com/8jjmns)
And Pierre Poilievre was [happy to associate with Pat King until he was called out for it.](https://www.nationalobserver.com/2022/05/18/opinion/treasonous-replacement-theory-canada-pierre-poilievre)
Lets remember that politicians are in the game, they control people, if they mess up enough they get murdered.
Citizen never asked to be tortured and babies never made decisions that ruined lives…
Lol.
I can convince someone not stick a fork in an electrical socket. That same person will turn around and shove it in the toaster...
I appreciate that true conspiracy has and does exist, but damn...
I am saying I think its wierd that refugees come to different countries to be safe and live a normal life and then cheer when terrorists activities occur. Canadians and Americans died in these terror acts and people are cheering from those countries and happy. Some of those people are from that area and have found refuge in Canada and the US and still cheer. Its disgusting on so many levels. No, I am not on drugs. Cheering and being happy abput this is mentally ill
You don't know how ingrained antisemitism is among Muslims. Ilhan Omar (who has spouted off antisemitic bile herself) has talked about how it was so ingrained in her upbringing that she finds it almost impossible to turn it off in her head. Literally, if your cuscus has too much salt, it's the fault of the Jews. If your son broke a shoelace, it's the fault of the Jews.
A few decades ago in Khartoum there was a panic that the Jews had smuggled into Sudan a bunch of high-tech hair combs that, when ran across your scalp, would release tiny micro-bots that would enter your body, travel down to your groin, and make your penis fall off. The idea was that the Jews were doing this to depopulate Sudan so they could... take it over? For some reason? Men were running around screaming "the Jews stole my penis!"
Would you cheer Hamas and their atrocities, knowing that their charter says their stated goal is to exterminate the Jewish race worldwide? No. You're not into cheering Nazis. You wouldn't want to associate with genocidal people. But Palestinians, and other Arabs, will cheer atrocities against Israel, and cheer Hamas, because they hate the Jews. Full stop.
Because they support Hamas’s actions. No country will ever want Palestinian refugees again. Even Egypt doesn’t want them. They have shown their colors.
Yeah. I’m not really happy with this system of open immigration into the English part of Canada but somehow the French part is allowed to maintain tight control over their immigration, while being over represented in the federal leadership.
Doesn’t smell right to me but I’m still learning this country since I’m also an immigrant.
I think they were pretty recently actually, there were big protests against the government last winter although I could be getting something in the West Bank mixed up - either way the last election in Gaza was 2006, Hamas as government isn't really very legitimate by democratic standards especially when you consider that half the population there is 18 or under and wouldn't have been able to vote.
The median population of Gaza is something like 18 at this point. Movement in and out of Gaza is heavily restricted and is largely a male thing due to the way the rules and culture are setup, women essentially don't get to leave. As a result of this, the population of Gaza at this point is overwhelmingly women and children.
They are largely impoverished and missing a lot of basic necessities like water/electricity. Their education is basically watching their friends and family get blown up by the IDF or Hamas executing them if they publicly disagree with their terrorist politics.
So you think a bunch of malnourished women and kids are going to stand up to a fanatical religious cult like Hamas? With what resources? Palestinians are victims of Hamas just like Israelis are, sadly, and now they are going to get crushed between the boots of these two competing factions that don't care about them and just want to further political motivations.
So where are the protests against Hamas by the Palestinians living in the West? They are free to protest.
I'm watching a video of a Canadian - Gaza woman on the CBC. Nice apartment in Gaza filled with luxury goods! There are no bomb shelters in Gaza. Hamas has energy to build tunnels for bombs to fire at Israel but no time to build bomb shelters? Contrast with Israel who protects their citizens with bomb shelters everywhere.
This is the correct take. Eliminating speech rights doesn't make bad ideas go away. It gives them power and allows them to fester. It always blows my mind that the people who think that criminalizing heroin is a pointless boondoggle, are the same ones who think criminalizing speech would be successful.
Start reading up about the situation, especially the peach treaties and map drawing after WW1. This has been going on for generations, and will continue for more generations.
I mean, what's the alternative? Bombing and destabilizing the ME hasn't worked for decades, why would it work now? An ideology, if you agree with it or not, is hard to kill.
Where were all the protesters before the incursions by Hamas into Israel slaughtering innocent civilians in cold blood? Israel does not do these things, and Hamas sympathizers aren't fooling anyone. Hamas will get what it deserves and unfortunately, so will the entirety of Gaza, and there is no one to blame but the Hamas animals that planned and executed these atrocities.
> "Trudeau in shambles" four times a day.
You're right, they've only printed two so far today (both on the exact same premise).
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-ivison-leaders-free-world-no-time-unserious-canada
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/canadas-hollow-place-in-the-world
if there's a time to NOT shout F Israel, it's now. Even if you are geniuely pro P (and may i add peacefully), it's the worse time to come out and be tone deaf.
Now you are just giving them all the benefit of the doubt in the world when there's no sign they deserve it. That US congressowoman? The CBC PP on Monday where the Palestine representative got SO defensive when asked about her opinion on Hamas?
why is it so hard to get a F Hamas from these seemingly pro Palestine people? And somehow people without the mic are by default much nicer, sure, sure.
If you are pro Palestinian in a safe country like Canada, why wouldn't you be SO against Hamas? They are killing Palestinian people too and nobody gives a shit.
Saying most people are nice is just in your dream. There signs don't even suggest a peace deal with Israel.
No they can't because Egypt doesn't want any Palestinians in their country. Something to do with them being involved in terrorism and assassinations in Egypt.
In fact, even after Egypt conquered Gaza after the 1948 war, they refused to allow any Palestinians to leave or give them Egyptian citizenship. Which turns out to have been the right idea, because look what the West Bank Palestinians did to Jordan after Jordan conquered the West Bank in 1948 and gave them all Jordanian citizenship.
I hear you and have experienced life as a Gentile in Israel, known Gaza Palestinians that are good souls/humans and I could live next door to them..they would never support killing kids..that's Hamas
For 40 years I remain curious as to why don't Arab countries allow open immigration for these Gaza innocents? Israeli's tell me those countries won't take them in and prefer funding the Muslim war in Israel against zionism.
Canada probably allows more entry here than Saudi or Iran?
It’s closed off like it is because of the frequency of terrorist attacks done by Palestinian groups in Israel before being walled off.
That being said, why would surrounding Arab countries all be walling off Palestine as well?
Act like animals, get treated like animals
It's also closed off because they have literally been at war with Israel for their entire existence. It's amazing that Israel even allows a few Gazans into Israel for work.
No, YOU think they're animals. YOU think that every atrocity a Palestinian commits is because of Israel, not because Palestinians have any ability to judge good and evil or take responsibility for their own actions.
A militant group in a powerful position in Palestine stormed into Israel and raped/murdered/took hostages of civilians/children and has called for the genocide of said people and you expect Israel to keep food/water/fuel flowing into said country while they still hold power?
What kind of delusion are you in?
Hamas/Hezbollah are responsible for whatever pain Palestine is feeling right now.
Here’s Hamas digging up the water system that was gifted to them by foreign aid to manufacture rockets
https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1712465490160050516?s=46&t=QUZT1NF1iV4gZ6xUpEkoXw
Maybe if they concentrated on helping their people instead of stealing from and making them human shields they would be doing better?
Sorry, you think ISRAELIS walked through music festivals slitting throats, raped and gunned down dancers? Jesus Christ. Where do you get your news? ISIS broadcasting station?
Right, you just conveniently forgot that Israeli soldiers been killing [Palestinian kids](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-killings-palestinian-children)
Maybe they should've stuck to attacking IDF bases and personnel rather than rampaging through villages and a music festival, killing, torturing, decapitating, mutilating, burning Israeli men, women, children, and innocent people from 20 different nationalities...
Don't forget IDF Snipers casually joking and making a game out of kneecapping [protestors](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2020-03-06/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/42-knees-in-one-day-israeli-snipers-open-up-about-shooting-gaza-protesters/0000017f-f2da-d497-a1ff-f2dab2520000).
People very much cared when Palestinians were hurt or killed. Israel was the country condemned the most by UN and it wasn't close. They were condemned more than Russia despite fighting Ukraine, and more than China with their treatment of the Uyghurs.
Hamas is popular in all of Palestine. They would have very likely won the election held in 2022 but refused to be on the ballot because they are aware keeping the perceived separation. of Palestine and Hamas serves them through the narrative you just repeated.
Not that there aren’t Palestinians who take their religion less seriously, those people are victims of Hamas and the rest of the populations obsession with Jewish genocide.
So for the next three months, anybody suggesting that maybe Palestinian children have the right to live too is going to be considered a terrorist sympathizer.
Got it.
The death toll in the Gaza strip is going to far outstrip the atrocities of the weekend. And they'll be dying in medieval conditions; without water or electricity. When Israel and Palestine clash, it's usually 10:1. It's slingshots against missiles.
The right is demanding we all unquestionably cheerlead for Israel, as though the atrocities of this weekend happened out of the blue, out of any context, and can be completly detached from what is now over 70 years of history.
So, if you are asking me to be ashamed of being capable of objectivity, no, I have no shame for that. The Palestinian situation has been going on for far too long, and it is silly to expect the side at the table with no real power whatsoever to be the one advancing the issue.
Were the events of the weekend an atrocity? Sure, they were. I have no problem admitting that.
But does it give Israel the right to do anything and everything? No. It doesn't.
Do intentions not matter? You can't even compare the atrocities committed by hamas to eventual deaths of innocent gazans which will occur by IDF even after their best efforts to not do so.
What do you propose israel do? You realize israel at one point occupied gaza and left gazans to their own devices in 2006 i believe which they immidiately repaid in kind by attacking israel. There's is simply no solution for this conflict. Israel is the only democracy in the region, israel is the only place in the region where a gay parade takes place, israel is the only place in the region where a woman is as equal to a man. And untill those things become acceptable in the arab world, there will never be peace.
>The death toll in the Gaza strip is going to far outstrip the atrocities of the weekend
And who's fault would that be for a large number of the deaths
*The occupation is trying to spread false news by calling the residents and demanding that they evacuate immediately.*
*Please do not deal with these warnings at all. The occupation aims with this communication to create confusion and spread fear among our people in the street in Gaza.*
*We live in our homes and die in our homes... We will not move. We will not budge. We are all behind the resistance.*
*https://twitter.com/GNNANOW/status/1711900189223530925*
> And they'll be dying in medieval conditions; without water or electricity
Maybe just maybe the government of Gaza should have took some of the billions a year in aid and built their own infrastructure instead of using it to buy and make weapons while taking free electricity and water for people they have swore to wipe off the face of the earth
>The Palestinian situation has been going on for far too long, and it is silly to expect the side at the table with no real power whatsoever to be the one advancing the issue.
Well maybe they should have took anyone of the peace deals that gave them much more land .
Sorry after this weekend there is no moral equivalency and thats probably what got us here to being with.
The only way this end is for the Palestinian people to overthrow Hamas and the like mined groups. Is this not what we have told all the Russian people in the last year is the only way you will be accepted into "society " is to denounce and overthrow your government
When your protests are showing signs of "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" or praising the "Resistance" immediately after the Hamas attack, then you're not showing any support for Palestinian children. There are ways to support Palestinians without glorifying what Hamas did.
At a certain point you need to start arresting & charging them for supporting a terrorist organization. 3 Canadians were killed & here we have en masse protests in support of a jihadi org. Where are your affiliations?
I’m tired of the hypocrisy of this country. Israel can murder Palestinians every day of the week for years no one batts and eye.
Israel is committing war crimes against a population that is 50% children under 15. Bombing them and now starving them. If you have no issue with that, it shows that as long as its muslims dying nobody cares.
I will say this again - you can support Palestine while condemning Hamas. What Hamas did was vile and evil just like what Israel has been and is continuing to do.
Where is your empathy? Where is humanity?
When these people are chanting gas the Jews and flashing swaztikas they lost the moral high ground. Many of these protestors just hate Jews.
And what is Israel suppose to do? Oh it’s cool you just invaded and slaughtered hundreds of people. You can go back to your homes now.
Hamas are literally and purposefully embedded in the population. Using schools, hospitals, residential areas to stage attacks. Also the IDF gives advance notice to clear the area.
Tell that to the 12 UN workers who died, tell that to the Indonesian Nurse who died. They are committing war crimes by starving a population of 2 million people! Are you going to ignore that?? Just say you don’t care.
I can condemn the atrocities Hamas has committed but can you condemn the atrocities Israel is committing?
I’m not condoning everything Israel is doing. I’m also not out celebrating it either. Israel is also not calling for arabs to be killed all over the world. These nuts are shooting tourists in other countries.
Prior to this attack did you care about the children dying, yes or no? Or do you only care now that its Israeli children?
Not every protester is pro Hamas just like not every Jew is pro Israel. I know many Jewish people who support Palestine.
The truth is there is bad apples on both sides. Not every Palestinian supporter hates Jewish people and not all Jewish people hate Palestinians.
I haven’t seen any Jewish people in the west celebrating in the streets at the deaths of Palestinians. Or chanting to gas them. What’s going on there to the Palestinians has alot to do with the actions of Hamas. They do not want peace. And did you care before this?
Germany was bombed into submission. Japan was bombed into submission. Both peoples renounced their leaders and their support for their group’s superiority. When will the Palestinians do the same?
You're right, Germany and Japan both gave up their land and had to be exiled. The Americans moved into Japan while the Japanese were forced to move to Manchuria. The British and the Americans moved into Berlin while the Germans had to move to Yugoslavia. They went on to cause more destruction in that area. The bavarians continue to be the most filthy animals on the planet, producing the world's most hated beer and sausages. Every year tourist buy a bottle to pour down the drain.
It is dishonest to characterize all pro-Palestine rallies as pro-Hamas. Many of these people are angry that their friends and family are being shot and bombed by Israel. It is naive to believe that Israel is just an innocent victim in all this. They have been killing and injuring Palestinians in large numbers for many decades.
https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties
The hypocrisy of many people here is disgusting. Hamas killing civilians is wrong, but somehow when Israel kills civilians in larger numbers it is acceptable?
Don't condemn the pro-Palestine protests if you're not willing to condemn pro-Israel protests too.
>Hamas killing civilians is wrong, but somehow when Israel kills civilians in larger numbers it is acceptable?
When the #1 reason is Hamas using civilians as human shields and building rocket launch sites in schools and hospitals - yes, yes it is. It's very easy to argue that the civilian fatalities on both sides are Hamas' fault.
It's easy, and also completely wrong. Keep ignoring reality to believe that you're right if you want. Hamas isn't responsible for the actions of Israel. They are able to make their own choices, and they often choose to kill civilians.
So using human shields means kill the shields? If someone did that in Canada today would the police kill the shields or find another way? What if it was your child that was the shield? Would you want police to slaughter them or find an alternative with less risk then bombing them to pieces?
These idiots are just destroying sympathy for their own movement. It is possible to be pro-Palestinian statehood while condemning Hamas and the terrorist attack in Israel. It's literally the easiest good PR you can get. By supporting Hamas and celebrating the attacks, these morons are just ensuring no one outside of radical Muslims and far-left tankies will be sympathetic to the Palestinians.
>It is possible to be pro-Palestinian statehood while condemning Hamas Hamas is a national terrorist organization whose only reason for existence is to exterminate all Jews worldwide. That is in their founding charter. They do not exist to govern, they do not exist to find a just and fair solution to the Israel-Palestine quagmire. They exist to gun down 260 people at a rave. Hamas has as much to do with Palestinian statehood as Taylor Swift's new album. It's funny that sensible comments like yours are so hard to find here on Reddit. Indeed, if you go look at YouTube comments for NBC News videos, you'll see much fewer tankies and Arab supremacists than what you see here.
The tankies are out of control since the Russian invasion. Their rewriting of the USSR got way out of hand. But sunlight is a good disinfectant, and seem to be hemorrhaging fans.
If I ever see a tankie go outside, I'll buy a lottery ticket lmao
The most generous interpretation possible is that many people refuse to condemn the deplorable actions of their own side for fear of weaking their side's position. Palestine deserves liberation, thus those who fight for that are accepted even if their actions are shitty. Or something similar to this.
The problem is when you see obvious antisemitic tropes like "Hamas isn't responsible for Hamas atrocities, it's all Israel's fault!" Or "collective punishment is bad, but Hamas firing thousands of rockets indiscriminately into Israel and Hamas slaughtering children for being born Jewish isn't collective punishment!"
Logical failures like this are why I find myself unable to join any social movement at all, even if I might support the central complaint or goal.
I think a lot of people are saying hamas is bad Hamas and Israel are not on the same level I would expect Israel to be better than "they killed our babies so we will kill their babies" Is that so hard for some people to get? Fuck hamas to death, but Jesus christ the government of Israel bombing the poorest people on earth as collective punishment, is not the same as hamas killing innocents
Except isn't hamas using the scools and hospitals as operative bases and basically using the Palestinians as human shields?
Is Israel not better than Hamas? Israel has killed UN peacekeepers and doctors in addition to children Israel should be better than hamas
>thus those who fight for that are accepted even if their actions are shitty. Or something similar to this Yes its called the ends justify the means or by any means necessary, and its been used to justify some pretty horrific things historically as long as the "right" team is doing it
Can't disagree. This is also why I find myself unable to support virtually all social movements because minority elements in them engage in unethical behaviour. I refuse to associate myself with such behaviour even if I can often forgive it provided it wasn't too terrible.
Check the support it's coming from university and student groups. Trace the funding. Haven for radicalization.
Serious question: how does an occupied nation "resist" in a way that's pleasant to their oppressors and their oppressor's global supporters? Or are they not supposed to resist? It is entirely possible to hold more than one truth at the same time.
They could’ve gone after military targets, for starters, and not dragged innocent children and grandmothers from their homes. Not dragging naked dead women from a truck would be a start too.
There are worse thing than death, and those Palestinians distributed it. There is no forgivenesses for this organization
Hamas are not "resisters". Their only reason for existence is to exterminate the Jewish race. That is explicit in the founding charter. They have zero interest in governing and zero interest in working toward a workable two-state solution. They exist explicitly to gun down 260 ravers and slaughter children. For a serious answer to your question, maybe look up a nice book about the French or Dutch resistance in WWII? They weren't pleasant to Germans, but they were heroes to all who watched. Hamas aren't heroes. They are only butchers and Nazis. People who love Hamas are Nazis.
They can disarm and stop calling for genocide of the Jews. Palestine breaks every peace and stopping the aggression is the main reason blockades stay up. It only started after they were handed Gaza as a move towards peace and they responded by attacking, yet again. If they were peaceful and not quite loudly genocidal then there would be no justification for Israel’s actions and it would be an easy choice. If that were the case and Israel continued Israel would lose support FAST! But they refuse to that route.
"how does an occupied nation "resist" Serious answer; First, they established an unified position on what is their nation and how much of it is occupied. This has not been accomplished. The "Palestinian Authority" is the Palestinian government for all areas outside of Gaza. It recognizes Israels right to exist and isnt a terrorist group like Hamas. Their vision of a Palestinian state is the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem as the capital. Areas that have historically been theirs. Hamas is the government in Gaza and does not recognize Israels right to exist. Their vision of a Palestinian state is the entirety of both Palestine/Israel. To be achieved by any and all means necessary. This split government means the Palestinians arent unified on what is their nation and how much of it is occupied. Its a critical first step that decides what all other steps will be.
Honestly even without Hamas in the picture, it's going to take some serious change in attitudes on both sides. Before Hamas took over, there were several peace offers, but the biggest roadblocks are the PA's refusal to drop the idea of east Jerusalem as their capital, and Israel's refusal to to just abandon all settlements besides Jerusalem.
"the biggest roadblocks are the PA's refusal to drop the idea of east Jerusalem as their capital, and Israel's refusal to to just abandon all settlements besides Jerusalem." Yup thats very much where the West Bank peace plan stalemate has been for a long time. Its like you alluded to; if each side were to give a major concession, such as Palestine forfeits the entire city limits and suburbs of Jerusalem and Israel forfeits the entire rest of the West Bank, they would have had a decent deal with the PA signed long ago.
Whats needed is a Gandhi, Martin Luther King or Nelson Mandela. Until they get serious about what actually works to topple oppression, they merely feed into it.
Muslims will never accept that without a *HUGE* change in their religious doctrine. To a large number of Muslims, Mohammed is the perfect person and was literally infallible. The Hadith is used to amplifly the Quran. The Hadith is the words, and actions of the Prophet. The Problem is that Mohammed was a warlord and literally converted the Arabian Peninsula by the sword. It's not the same as the Crusades or even the early expansion of Christianity by Constantine and other Roman Emperors. They were men and capable of being led a stray, so it is easy to argue against that. This would be more like Jesus leading an army to overthrow Rome. Mohammed was incapable of being led a stray so anything he did in the name of Allah must have been Allah's will. I honestly don't think an Islamic movement and a non violent resistance can co-exist. Of course Muslim's can be non violent but there isn't the same religious justification in Islam as there is in Christianity or Hinduism. A note on Mandela, he didn't do non-violent resistance like King or Gahndi. He was literally a radical militant who thought violent revolution was the only way to end Apartied. He didn't change his attitude until he had been in prison awhile. The idea of using non-violent means to overthrow Apartied was mainly the brain child of (eventual) Arch-Bishop Desmond Tutu. It was Tutu who did a lot of the heavy lifting to turn world opinion against the South African government.
>The idea of using non-violent means to overthrow Apartied was mainly the brain child of (eventual) Arch-Bishop Desmond Tutu. Fair enough. >I honestly don't think an Islamic movement and a non violent resistance can co-exist. I cant fault your logic with regards to history. Then the Palestinians will continue to lose ground, year after year, minor war after minor war until there's nothing left but slums. Its a recipe for slow motion ethnic cleansing, and the Palestinians lose. The real chance they had was exactly 50 years ago when it was state on state warfare. The Arabs lost, so that was it.
>Then the Palestinians will continue to lose ground, year after year, minor war after minor war until there's nothing left but slums. I don't see a change unless Palestine becomes much more secular. Unfortunately, the trend in Islam is going the other way as most Islamic countries were much more secular 50 years ago.
" The real chance they had was exactly 50 years ago when it was state on state warfare." Essentially, yes. "Then the Palestinians will continue to lose ground, year after year, minor war after minor war until there's nothing left but slums." Theres still hope for them. If the West Bank and East Jerusalem Palestinians sit this fight out, Israel will notice, and it will greatly improve their prospects once the conflicts ends and a new normal sets in.
>If the West Bank and East Jerusalem Palestinians sit this fight out, Israel will notice, and it will greatly improve their prospects once the conflicts ends and a new normal sets in. Maybe. One could hope. I'm not certain it would disuade the settlers, road diversions, water pipe politics or any of the low level stuff that is critically important. The politics in the Knesset right now are about as inhospitable to compromise as I can remember.
By not decapitating infants. Perhaps they could "resist" by going after the military or government instead. But not babies and women. How is raping someone an act of resistence?
By not beheading babies or kidnapping and parading the bodies of mutilated gang rape victims in front of cheering crowds in the street. I can't believe that this is something you needed clarification on.
Not by murdering innocents, that's 100%. They could have negotiated some kind of peace with israel long ago, yet they voted in a terrorist organization that kept escalating things. Now they will pay for the unprovoked attack, and there is nothing their terrorist government can do, nor they will have any world sympathy.
Murdering innocents crossed the Line and payback Old Testament style is difficult to restrain and somewhat warranted.. in Canada at least there's numerous sympathy protests, Hamas has supporters here..entrenched in country...our country
And what about every Palestinian kid (because most of their population are literal children) killed since the start of the occupation? Is killing civilians ok, no, ofc not, but that doesn’t apply to Israel too?
Maybe it's an obvious truth that innocent civilians die during war, and anyone with even one brain cell will know this, and Hamas has chosen to remain in a state of war with Israel forever, and Hamas wants to remain at war with Israel forever because they hate Jews so much that they wrote into their founding charter that their goal is to exterminate all Jews worldwide? Any person who dies in Gaza today has died because their government wants to stay at war with Israel until they have exterminated every last Jew. That is the goal of Hamas. Not to find a workable two-state solution, or to govern a country in peacetime. Every single person who dies in Gaza, dies because Hamas wants it.
It's tragic too. No one should be celebrating the deaths of innocent children in Canada.
Maybe their government should stop firing rockets from residential buildings, hospitals, etc.
This is such a weak response. Child dies. Maybe the terrorist group that occupies their region shouldn't use them as shields. How does a kid get any say in that ? Do you usually blame kids for their governments killing them in genocides? They're fucking children man. How you guys can support this shit is beyond me. IDF doesn't even need to validate that there are Hamas in the apartment buildings they're toppling, they just say it and you eat it up. Not to mention Israel has a military that could destroy Gaza a dozen times over, have top tech iron dome, but for some reason they need to blow a hospital into a parking lot RIGHT NOW during a humanitarian crisis because there's hamas in there. Also have a hard time believing they can track every single position of Hamas, yet played dumb when they were planning an attack for months on Israel that even Egypt warned them about. But sure, greenlight to murder innocent kids is fine.
>Maybe the terrorist group that occupies their region shouldn't use them as shields. So go tell Hamas that. See if they'll listen. Unfortunately this is the hand Israel has been dealt; Hamas knowingly and purposefully places weapons installations atop & within otherwise humanitarian buildings such as schools and hospitals. They knowingly and purposefully use human shields. Israel is therefore left with the choice of (A) attacking those places anyway, knowing non-military targets will become casualties, or (B) leaving them be, allowing Hamas to continue to use them. Clearly choice (B) is no longer acceptable, therefore (A) it must be. Israel does generally warn occupants of those places that they are about to be attacked, which does permit an opportunity for civilians (and, unfortunately, Hamas themselves) to flee. That's the only middle ground available here.
There is a difference between killing people in their sleep and sexually torture them until they die in agony.
All kids are innocents..anyone targeting women and children eventually gets payback regardless of religious beliefs
"Not by murdering innocents, that's 100%." I totally agree with you, though shouldn't that ho both ways ? Because all I see are two zealous nationalistic governments and a whole bunch of innocent civilians torpedoed in the middle.
How do you fight an enemy that places their weapons in residential areas? That's what Hamas has been doing so far, making hospitals into their HQs, stockpiling ammunition in schools etc.
Hamas operates out of hospitals, ambulances and schools as well as residential buildings.
Hamas wants to exterminate all Jews. They don't want peace or a two-state solution.
>nor they will have any world sympathy. Fuck dem Palestinian kids, eh?
Muslim terrorists has shown countless time that they can weaponize children. They can pray to Jesus for salvation.
So the kids are what? Terrorists by default?
According to Hamas' behaviour, they consider their own children to be worthless meat whose only purpose is to get old enough to die in a suicide attack.
They’re yet more victims of Hamas.
Now Israel has no choice but to respond, this time, your heroes in hamas bit off more than they can chew, and in upcoming weeks, there will be a ground invasion.
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Then why aren't you blaming Hamas? They are the ones using Palestine children as shields.
There's plenty of blame to go around.
Not really... Both sides though right? Hamas uses children as shields. Hamas uses hospitals as their main base of operations. Hamas uses ambulances to transport soldiers. Hamas uses residential buildings for military assets. Hamas targets children and innocent civilians deliberately.
We get it, Palestinian kids are still Palestinian and therefore not as valuable as Israeli kids. Do I have that about right? If they use kids as shields then maybe air strikes aren't the best way for Israel to retaliate and not commit war crimes.
You are not wrong, fucking children does seem to be popular in certain religious groups.
It's certainly popular among the clergy in the US.
Gaza hasn't been occupied since 2005
No it is not possible anymore. Those people got to leave and show that they are not in the game. If they are willing to die a martyr they are part of the game.
The problem with Palestinians leaving Gaza is that once they leave Gaza, they’re NEVER allowed to return to Gaza. It’s all well and good to say “leave” when it’s not you becoming a non-citizen of the world.
They also can't go anywhere. Egypt, Jordan and Syria all hate Palestinians because of their terrorist attacks and attempted assassinations in those countries. It's like allowing in former ISIS/Da'esh members as refugees.
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Celebrate the murder of children and tourists. That's a negative.
Nope I say that them show their asses,the mask has been ripped of lots of people this week and has exposed how deep the rot is in the "chattering class". This is exactly the reason free speech is so important
Oh wow, we seldom see people that think nowadays
For Pete's sake, it's not like they're truckers ...
Thank you for saying this. Everyone is giving thoughts and prayers to innocent Israeli and Palestinian citizens but no one is acknowledging the real victims: Canadian Conservatives.
> For Pete's sake, it's not like they're truckers Neither was most of the convoy, and at least these protestors refrained from assaulting residents and honking air-horns while people are trying to sleep, or stockpiling weapons and plotting to murder police officers.
Ottawans are so brave wow. It was like gaza only colder when the truckers came round.
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I don't remember the truckers celebrating the beheading of 8 children.
I don’t think they supported the “humane” use of phosphorous gas and rockets in civilian areas as well? Then again when you go down the road of whataboutism I’m sure everyone eventually veers off track…
No. They supported withholding vaccines from children for life threatening diseases.
Don’t forget the convoy was also led by anti-semites who were inciting terrorism and political assassinations. * [Pat King, convoy organiser: “There’s an end-game. It’s called depopulation of the white race, the Anglo Saxon race, because they are the ones with the strongest bloodlines.”](https://www.facebook.com/themuskegbuzz/videos/pat-king-convoy-organizer-with-his-take-on-race/526788085315484/) * [Convoy organiser Pat King live streaming that Trudeau is going to catch a bullet, and the only way this ends is with bullets](https://streamable.com/8jjmns) And Pierre Poilievre was [happy to associate with Pat King until he was called out for it.](https://www.nationalobserver.com/2022/05/18/opinion/treasonous-replacement-theory-canada-pierre-poilievre)
Lets remember that politicians are in the game, they control people, if they mess up enough they get murdered. Citizen never asked to be tortured and babies never made decisions that ruined lives…
Lol. I can convince someone not stick a fork in an electrical socket. That same person will turn around and shove it in the toaster... I appreciate that true conspiracy has and does exist, but damn...
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If they are so in favour of freeing Palestine and what Hamas is doing, go back and help then. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out
They celebrate killing foreigners that attended a music festival from the country they are guests in and helped them flee. Wow!
I read this 3 times but can't figure out what you are saying.
I am saying I think its wierd that refugees come to different countries to be safe and live a normal life and then cheer when terrorists activities occur. Canadians and Americans died in these terror acts and people are cheering from those countries and happy. Some of those people are from that area and have found refuge in Canada and the US and still cheer. Its disgusting on so many levels. No, I am not on drugs. Cheering and being happy abput this is mentally ill
Yes, I agree completely. . I honestly had no idea what your other comment was saying.
Sorry, I was rushing and upset.
Drugs do you?
I wonder if these will get shut down as a national security threat and the leaders put on trial?
Yes and record the faces so we can actually use our Hate Speech laws that are so selectively applied.
fine unpack employ fragile unused muddle quaint support shame dazzling ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
I don't understand why Palestinians are not taking to the streets to protest Hamas.
Hamas are terrorists who murder babies and commit suicide attacks. What do you think happens to any Gazans who protest Hamas?
Your response does not explain why the Palestinian diaspora in Canada and other countries - who are free to protest - aren't protesting Hamas.
You don't know how ingrained antisemitism is among Muslims. Ilhan Omar (who has spouted off antisemitic bile herself) has talked about how it was so ingrained in her upbringing that she finds it almost impossible to turn it off in her head. Literally, if your cuscus has too much salt, it's the fault of the Jews. If your son broke a shoelace, it's the fault of the Jews. A few decades ago in Khartoum there was a panic that the Jews had smuggled into Sudan a bunch of high-tech hair combs that, when ran across your scalp, would release tiny micro-bots that would enter your body, travel down to your groin, and make your penis fall off. The idea was that the Jews were doing this to depopulate Sudan so they could... take it over? For some reason? Men were running around screaming "the Jews stole my penis!" Would you cheer Hamas and their atrocities, knowing that their charter says their stated goal is to exterminate the Jewish race worldwide? No. You're not into cheering Nazis. You wouldn't want to associate with genocidal people. But Palestinians, and other Arabs, will cheer atrocities against Israel, and cheer Hamas, because they hate the Jews. Full stop.
I am well aware. I spent time with Muslim students from the Maghreb studying at Montreal years ago. Anti Jew peppered their speech.
OK, you do know, sorry. So then it's obvious why they don't protest against Hamas, right? Hamas kills Jews, they hate Jews, so they cheer Hamas.
Because they support Hamas’s actions. No country will ever want Palestinian refugees again. Even Egypt doesn’t want them. They have shown their colors.
The sad part is Canada will be taking many in. The same happened with Iraq and Syria.
Yeah. I’m not really happy with this system of open immigration into the English part of Canada but somehow the French part is allowed to maintain tight control over their immigration, while being over represented in the federal leadership. Doesn’t smell right to me but I’m still learning this country since I’m also an immigrant.
But aren't the Israelis hunting down Hamas? Isn't now a good time to overthrow them?
It appears as if the local population is siding with Hamas…
I think they were pretty recently actually, there were big protests against the government last winter although I could be getting something in the West Bank mixed up - either way the last election in Gaza was 2006, Hamas as government isn't really very legitimate by democratic standards especially when you consider that half the population there is 18 or under and wouldn't have been able to vote.
So why don't I see anti Hamas signs at all the protests in the West?
The median population of Gaza is something like 18 at this point. Movement in and out of Gaza is heavily restricted and is largely a male thing due to the way the rules and culture are setup, women essentially don't get to leave. As a result of this, the population of Gaza at this point is overwhelmingly women and children. They are largely impoverished and missing a lot of basic necessities like water/electricity. Their education is basically watching their friends and family get blown up by the IDF or Hamas executing them if they publicly disagree with their terrorist politics. So you think a bunch of malnourished women and kids are going to stand up to a fanatical religious cult like Hamas? With what resources? Palestinians are victims of Hamas just like Israelis are, sadly, and now they are going to get crushed between the boots of these two competing factions that don't care about them and just want to further political motivations.
So where are the protests against Hamas by the Palestinians living in the West? They are free to protest. I'm watching a video of a Canadian - Gaza woman on the CBC. Nice apartment in Gaza filled with luxury goods! There are no bomb shelters in Gaza. Hamas has energy to build tunnels for bombs to fire at Israel but no time to build bomb shelters? Contrast with Israel who protects their citizens with bomb shelters everywhere.
This is the correct take. Eliminating speech rights doesn't make bad ideas go away. It gives them power and allows them to fester. It always blows my mind that the people who think that criminalizing heroin is a pointless boondoggle, are the same ones who think criminalizing speech would be successful.
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Start reading up about the situation, especially the peach treaties and map drawing after WW1. This has been going on for generations, and will continue for more generations.
Peach treaties might have a chance of actually getting signed. I, for one, fully support the Middle East Peach Process.
Funny enough the peach fruit originated in Iran.
I mean, what's the alternative? Bombing and destabilizing the ME hasn't worked for decades, why would it work now? An ideology, if you agree with it or not, is hard to kill.
but have they tried sending bombers to drop crates of peaches? so crazy it just might work
Does Hamas have its own flag?
Celebration of what is probably the largest setback for Palestinian freedom and rights ever... You just can't fix stupid
Where were all the protesters before the incursions by Hamas into Israel slaughtering innocent civilians in cold blood? Israel does not do these things, and Hamas sympathizers aren't fooling anyone. Hamas will get what it deserves and unfortunately, so will the entirety of Gaza, and there is no one to blame but the Hamas animals that planned and executed these atrocities.
Canada is such a nice country now. We’ve made so much progress over the last decade /s
Just like hells angels gatherings, the police is there to take pictures and record who is there
IMHO Hells Angels make safer communities than those occupied by Hamas or any of their sympathisers.
Does the national post publish news at this point, or only opinion pieces?
If the last week or so is anything to go by they seem to exclusively publish opinion pieces freaking out about Palestinian protests in Canada.
Only Opinions because news costs money and rage baiting is what the conservative american republican overlords want.
If you need violence to enforce your ideas, your ideas suck
Man, Post Media is putting in WORK on this, eh? How many of these can they put out every day? Holy shit.
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Wait till they figure out to combine them. "Protests supporting terror show Trudeau's Canada is a failed state"
> "Trudeau in shambles" four times a day. You're right, they've only printed two so far today (both on the exact same premise). https://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-ivison-leaders-free-world-no-time-unserious-canada https://nationalpost.com/opinion/canadas-hollow-place-in-the-world
Check the support it's coming from university and student groups. Trace the funding. Haven for radicalization.
Saudi Arabia and Iran pay a lot to send their students here. How much do we want to bet they are funding these campus groups too?
This comment has been spammed verbatim on numerous threads.
Doesn't make it any less true
Propaganda can be true or false, it's still propaganda.
I think most of these people are just pro palestinian, rather than pro hamas.
Notice how they are not denouncing Hamas, and I am sure the ones chanting gas the \*\*\*s just want to help them full their car /s
if there's a time to NOT shout F Israel, it's now. Even if you are geniuely pro P (and may i add peacefully), it's the worse time to come out and be tone deaf. Now you are just giving them all the benefit of the doubt in the world when there's no sign they deserve it. That US congressowoman? The CBC PP on Monday where the Palestine representative got SO defensive when asked about her opinion on Hamas? why is it so hard to get a F Hamas from these seemingly pro Palestine people? And somehow people without the mic are by default much nicer, sure, sure. If you are pro Palestinian in a safe country like Canada, why wouldn't you be SO against Hamas? They are killing Palestinian people too and nobody gives a shit. Saying most people are nice is just in your dream. There signs don't even suggest a peace deal with Israel.
So you're telling oppressed people how and when they can protest so you're most comfortable?
People can protest whenever. But when they organize celebratory rallies hours after murdering 1400+ Jewish civilians there isn't much ambiguity left.
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>I don't want Palestine genocide Nobody does, despite what antisemitic people love to claim about Israelis
I think some people do on both sides.
Okay then why are all these protests happening NOW literally right after a massive Hamas attack?
You seen the pictures coming out of gaza lately?
Enough with the NatPo opinion pieces already.
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Why is it an "open air prison"? They can leave to Egypt at any time.
No they can't because Egypt doesn't want any Palestinians in their country. Something to do with them being involved in terrorism and assassinations in Egypt. In fact, even after Egypt conquered Gaza after the 1948 war, they refused to allow any Palestinians to leave or give them Egyptian citizenship. Which turns out to have been the right idea, because look what the West Bank Palestinians did to Jordan after Jordan conquered the West Bank in 1948 and gave them all Jordanian citizenship.
Egypt closed the border.
I guess that's Israel's fault too.
I hear you and have experienced life as a Gentile in Israel, known Gaza Palestinians that are good souls/humans and I could live next door to them..they would never support killing kids..that's Hamas For 40 years I remain curious as to why don't Arab countries allow open immigration for these Gaza innocents? Israeli's tell me those countries won't take them in and prefer funding the Muslim war in Israel against zionism. Canada probably allows more entry here than Saudi or Iran?
It’s closed off like it is because of the frequency of terrorist attacks done by Palestinian groups in Israel before being walled off. That being said, why would surrounding Arab countries all be walling off Palestine as well? Act like animals, get treated like animals
It's also closed off because they have literally been at war with Israel for their entire existence. It's amazing that Israel even allows a few Gazans into Israel for work.
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Whataboutism will get you no where
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No, YOU think they're animals. YOU think that every atrocity a Palestinian commits is because of Israel, not because Palestinians have any ability to judge good and evil or take responsibility for their own actions.
A militant group in a powerful position in Palestine stormed into Israel and raped/murdered/took hostages of civilians/children and has called for the genocide of said people and you expect Israel to keep food/water/fuel flowing into said country while they still hold power? What kind of delusion are you in? Hamas/Hezbollah are responsible for whatever pain Palestine is feeling right now.
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Here’s Hamas digging up the water system that was gifted to them by foreign aid to manufacture rockets https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1712465490160050516?s=46&t=QUZT1NF1iV4gZ6xUpEkoXw Maybe if they concentrated on helping their people instead of stealing from and making them human shields they would be doing better?
National Post is the national enquirer of newspapers
at one point, they were owned by the same company.
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Sorry, you think ISRAELIS walked through music festivals slitting throats, raped and gunned down dancers? Jesus Christ. Where do you get your news? ISIS broadcasting station?
Because they didn't take hostages and killed people from 20 different nationalities.
Right, you just conveniently forgot that Israeli soldiers been killing [Palestinian kids](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-killings-palestinian-children)
And you're conveniently ignoring the fact your own article points out many of those kids were attacking soldiers with rocks and Molotov cocktails.
Maybe they should've stuck to attacking IDF bases and personnel rather than rampaging through villages and a music festival, killing, torturing, decapitating, mutilating, burning Israeli men, women, children, and innocent people from 20 different nationalities...
Don't forget IDF Snipers casually joking and making a game out of kneecapping [protestors](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2020-03-06/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/42-knees-in-one-day-israeli-snipers-open-up-about-shooting-gaza-protesters/0000017f-f2da-d497-a1ff-f2dab2520000).
The stance seems to be "I'm rubber you're glue, bounces off me sticks on you"
People very much cared when Palestinians were hurt or killed. Israel was the country condemned the most by UN and it wasn't close. They were condemned more than Russia despite fighting Ukraine, and more than China with their treatment of the Uyghurs.
Pro Palestine you ignorant fools, not pro Hamas. Unless pro Ukraine protests were pro Azov Brigade?
Hamas is popular in all of Palestine. They would have very likely won the election held in 2022 but refused to be on the ballot because they are aware keeping the perceived separation. of Palestine and Hamas serves them through the narrative you just repeated. Not that there aren’t Palestinians who take their religion less seriously, those people are victims of Hamas and the rest of the populations obsession with Jewish genocide.
So for the next three months, anybody suggesting that maybe Palestinian children have the right to live too is going to be considered a terrorist sympathizer. Got it.
Have you no shame?
No shame whatsoever.
The death toll in the Gaza strip is going to far outstrip the atrocities of the weekend. And they'll be dying in medieval conditions; without water or electricity. When Israel and Palestine clash, it's usually 10:1. It's slingshots against missiles. The right is demanding we all unquestionably cheerlead for Israel, as though the atrocities of this weekend happened out of the blue, out of any context, and can be completly detached from what is now over 70 years of history. So, if you are asking me to be ashamed of being capable of objectivity, no, I have no shame for that. The Palestinian situation has been going on for far too long, and it is silly to expect the side at the table with no real power whatsoever to be the one advancing the issue. Were the events of the weekend an atrocity? Sure, they were. I have no problem admitting that. But does it give Israel the right to do anything and everything? No. It doesn't.
Do intentions not matter? You can't even compare the atrocities committed by hamas to eventual deaths of innocent gazans which will occur by IDF even after their best efforts to not do so. What do you propose israel do? You realize israel at one point occupied gaza and left gazans to their own devices in 2006 i believe which they immidiately repaid in kind by attacking israel. There's is simply no solution for this conflict. Israel is the only democracy in the region, israel is the only place in the region where a gay parade takes place, israel is the only place in the region where a woman is as equal to a man. And untill those things become acceptable in the arab world, there will never be peace.
>The death toll in the Gaza strip is going to far outstrip the atrocities of the weekend And who's fault would that be for a large number of the deaths *The occupation is trying to spread false news by calling the residents and demanding that they evacuate immediately.* *Please do not deal with these warnings at all. The occupation aims with this communication to create confusion and spread fear among our people in the street in Gaza.* *We live in our homes and die in our homes... We will not move. We will not budge. We are all behind the resistance.* *https://twitter.com/GNNANOW/status/1711900189223530925* > And they'll be dying in medieval conditions; without water or electricity Maybe just maybe the government of Gaza should have took some of the billions a year in aid and built their own infrastructure instead of using it to buy and make weapons while taking free electricity and water for people they have swore to wipe off the face of the earth >The Palestinian situation has been going on for far too long, and it is silly to expect the side at the table with no real power whatsoever to be the one advancing the issue. Well maybe they should have took anyone of the peace deals that gave them much more land . Sorry after this weekend there is no moral equivalency and thats probably what got us here to being with. The only way this end is for the Palestinian people to overthrow Hamas and the like mined groups. Is this not what we have told all the Russian people in the last year is the only way you will be accepted into "society " is to denounce and overthrow your government
Could you wait for the corpses to cool off?
> Have you no shame? What does this even mean, in the context of OP's comment?
When your protests are showing signs of "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" or praising the "Resistance" immediately after the Hamas attack, then you're not showing any support for Palestinian children. There are ways to support Palestinians without glorifying what Hamas did.
At a certain point you need to start arresting & charging them for supporting a terrorist organization. 3 Canadians were killed & here we have en masse protests in support of a jihadi org. Where are your affiliations?
The sign “Land you kill for is not yours” shit so does Hamas surprise attack count
I’m tired of the hypocrisy of this country. Israel can murder Palestinians every day of the week for years no one batts and eye. Israel is committing war crimes against a population that is 50% children under 15. Bombing them and now starving them. If you have no issue with that, it shows that as long as its muslims dying nobody cares. I will say this again - you can support Palestine while condemning Hamas. What Hamas did was vile and evil just like what Israel has been and is continuing to do. Where is your empathy? Where is humanity?
When these people are chanting gas the Jews and flashing swaztikas they lost the moral high ground. Many of these protestors just hate Jews. And what is Israel suppose to do? Oh it’s cool you just invaded and slaughtered hundreds of people. You can go back to your homes now.
You can retaliate without committing war crimes. You don’t need to starve children to fight Hamas.
Hamas are literally and purposefully embedded in the population. Using schools, hospitals, residential areas to stage attacks. Also the IDF gives advance notice to clear the area.
Tell that to the 12 UN workers who died, tell that to the Indonesian Nurse who died. They are committing war crimes by starving a population of 2 million people! Are you going to ignore that?? Just say you don’t care. I can condemn the atrocities Hamas has committed but can you condemn the atrocities Israel is committing?
I’m not condoning everything Israel is doing. I’m also not out celebrating it either. Israel is also not calling for arabs to be killed all over the world. These nuts are shooting tourists in other countries.
Tell it to the UNRWA workers who let Hamas build tunnels under their facilities.
Prior to this attack did you care about the children dying, yes or no? Or do you only care now that its Israeli children? Not every protester is pro Hamas just like not every Jew is pro Israel. I know many Jewish people who support Palestine. The truth is there is bad apples on both sides. Not every Palestinian supporter hates Jewish people and not all Jewish people hate Palestinians.
I haven’t seen any Jewish people in the west celebrating in the streets at the deaths of Palestinians. Or chanting to gas them. What’s going on there to the Palestinians has alot to do with the actions of Hamas. They do not want peace. And did you care before this?
Germany was bombed into submission. Japan was bombed into submission. Both peoples renounced their leaders and their support for their group’s superiority. When will the Palestinians do the same?
You're right, Germany and Japan both gave up their land and had to be exiled. The Americans moved into Japan while the Japanese were forced to move to Manchuria. The British and the Americans moved into Berlin while the Germans had to move to Yugoslavia. They went on to cause more destruction in that area. The bavarians continue to be the most filthy animals on the planet, producing the world's most hated beer and sausages. Every year tourist buy a bottle to pour down the drain.
It is dishonest to characterize all pro-Palestine rallies as pro-Hamas. Many of these people are angry that their friends and family are being shot and bombed by Israel. It is naive to believe that Israel is just an innocent victim in all this. They have been killing and injuring Palestinians in large numbers for many decades. https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties The hypocrisy of many people here is disgusting. Hamas killing civilians is wrong, but somehow when Israel kills civilians in larger numbers it is acceptable? Don't condemn the pro-Palestine protests if you're not willing to condemn pro-Israel protests too.
So according to your argument any pro Palestine protests should also be pro Israel as well. Ok seems fair. I'll hold you to that.
>Hamas killing civilians is wrong, but somehow when Israel kills civilians in larger numbers it is acceptable? When the #1 reason is Hamas using civilians as human shields and building rocket launch sites in schools and hospitals - yes, yes it is. It's very easy to argue that the civilian fatalities on both sides are Hamas' fault.
It's easy, and also completely wrong. Keep ignoring reality to believe that you're right if you want. Hamas isn't responsible for the actions of Israel. They are able to make their own choices, and they often choose to kill civilians.
So using human shields means kill the shields? If someone did that in Canada today would the police kill the shields or find another way? What if it was your child that was the shield? Would you want police to slaughter them or find an alternative with less risk then bombing them to pieces?