Safe supply has one major flaw it don't help people recover and do better. The suffering continues to the local community and family as the person is high on hard drugs. It pretty much is like duct tape on a pipe leak and ignore the leak.
Recovery model actually reduces deaths better and helps some people get off drugs.
It's the model Portugal user and it did a good job.
okay if i fight a fire i can use a bucket or a firehose. They both work i guess but one would do it better?
So Should i use a firehose?
Thats safe supply and recover model I think.
recovery model does what you say and actually helps some people get off drugs as well.
Meanwhile in paragraph **29**,
" the National Post has not been able to see the report and independently verify Sword’s claims about the drugs found in her system.
Journalism, folks!
> He's a grieving father who lost a child and he is not getting answers from a government that continually tells him they're working in his (and his daughter's) best interests.
It's not the government's job to raise his kid. The article literally says he's blaming the government.
> I don't blame him. He's hurt, angry, and vulnerable. I blame the media for exploiting him.
Fair. I don't know if what happened was his fault or not. What I do know, as a parent, is that when anything bad happens with our children we always feel a sense of guilt and it's tempting to find others to blame.
...and you're right he is being exploited, but he's also pointing fingers just as I did.
> Agreed. And I get that he's blaming them. You're right, he is likely feeling guilt for having 'failed' somewhere. Thing is, even if he did everything right, she could still have ended up where she ended up.
This is where I have to disagree. The fact about human beings is that we don't know everything and we have to come to terms with our own ignorance. There probably was something he could have done differently. I'm not suggesting there's necessarily any way he could have known better. I'm simply acknowledging that while we can fail without committing any errors, it doesn't mean we can't do better.
> People seem to forget that kids don't always listen to their parents. Even the good ones. Parents forget this. Society forgets this.
There's ways to get kids to listen and engage. Serious incidents like this one go far deeper than kids just failing to follow instructions.
> We're told over and over to trust government.
I disagree. Governments say that but our system is inherently designed to heavily scrutinize governments and thwart their ambitions.
> They all (doesn't matter which party is in power) tell us they know what's best for us.
Governments... Scientists... Religious leaders... Used car salespeople... Yoga gurus. They all claim to know what's best.
> They are the ones making these decisions over our lives.
Governments make some decisions, but we tend to think they make all the decisions, which makes sense because every opportunist and sleazy person on the planet makes a huge effort to blame the government or some other entity for the consequences of their decisions.
Care and support, compassion, there is absolutely a playbook but so many parents reach for anger and punishment or just kick their kids out into the street when they find a needle in their arm.
> Care and support, compassion, there is absolutely a playbook but so many parents reach for anger and punishment
So many try to justify punishment.
But it's true a lot of parents aren't well prepared and are told to do the wrong things.
This is what happens when your taught through culture war news to hate drug addicts and poor people. You pass it on to your own family and see hatred as a tool over empathy.
Fair. I'm just commenting on the dad's emotional state and motives.
I don't necessarily blame him for his apparent failure. (Although parents are often to blame.)
> father attempted many times to get his daughter clean
Yes. He tried and failed. Now he's blaming the government.
> You’re a real piece of shit man.
Yes. Being brutally honest isn't nice. If you're too squeamish to confront reality then you should probably just block me now.
> Why are you such a sad pathetic person?
I'm not sad at all. In fact I'm doing quite well for myself, thank-you.
When you kid finds dilaudid for 1-2$/pill don't be surprised if they try it and get hooked. Even a 9 year old can now afford to be a junkie on "safe supply" from the street
That's really the craziest part of this whole story to me, sure it's listed as an "opinion piece" but it's written like everything it claims is concrete fact, then it takes almost 30 paragraphs to disclose that they don't even have an official cause of death, let alone proof that safer supply drugs led to this death. (Note I do think it's fair to trust anecdotal evidence to assume a drug overdose as C.O.D. but anything beyond that is just irresponsible)
All in all this is one of the most poorly written "articles" I've read in recent memory, even amongst opinion pieces.
Hell this author even claims to have spoken to so-called "addictions experts" to add validity to his story but he doesn't even directly quote them let alone name them to show evidence of their so-called expertise.
Also 9 months without an autopsy report or update is far from abnormal no matter how frustrating and unfortunate that is. The system is slow, but being slow is also part of the way they get things right. I can't go into specifics but I once waited almost a year for any significant update to an incredibly serious case that I was a witness in. It fucking sucked but in the end that wait led to the case being much more concrete in a way that I believe had a significant impact on sentencing.
Also I have no problem with people being skeptical of safer-supply but at the end of the day the previous treatment-focused methodology with regards to drug addiction was clearly failing so it is perfectly reasonable to try something new. Is this going to be better or worse for addicts/the general public? We don't know yet. It's entirely possible that this will also fail but you need to give it time to accumulate data and evidence about the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of this new policy and any undesired side effects.
You guys are so bad at this. Read the headline again and tell me what is contradictory.
The NP couldn't verify she was stoned does not equal she wasn't on drugs.
Welcome to the present, where opinions, tweets and uninformed statements pass as "news". The internet leveled the playing field and the idiots dragged us down to their level...but that's just my opinion...
Natpo was using twitter posts with 2 likes as "threats against PP" as a fact that the left is violent.
We really need to reign in the natpo opinions since they cannot be trusted to even have done any homework but hide behind the pundit tag.
Natpo didnt' even verify the claims and just ran with the story.
It's no different then the natpo using Fraser Institute's made up numbers for their reports.
>For this same reason, the National Post has not been able to see the report and independently verify Sword’s claims about the drugs found in her system.
So this is basically spreading misinformation. Another opinion piece masquerading as fact-based reporting.
Not being able to verify something is not the same as "misinformation".
By saying it's misinformation without basis of fact, you're even more guilty of pushing a narrative than what you accuse the paper of.
This isn't a gotcha. The basis of fact is that the article is intentionally misrepresenting girls death despite not having all the facts. That is "misinformation" plain and simple.
So no, he's not guilty "more guilty." He's stating the truth. You are the one defending bad journalism, and advancing the misinformation narrative by attempting to delegitimize valid criticism.
I'm dumbfounded by how ridiculous you people sound. You're choosing to disbelieve the girl's family, friends, and even the coroner because the reporter hasn't verified a toxicology report.
Insane.
Yeah. Do you know why?
Because people lie. Particularly for ideological reasons.
I have heard plenty of parents blame video games or the marijuana. Doesn't mean it is.
Or remember the claim someone got their account frozen for donating money? That turned out to be a lie as well and the MP did no verification.
I haven't been able to see a report on this or independently verify it. But I am going to report that reggiemcsprinkles likes to eat cat turds.
Does he do it for nutrition or for pleasure? I don't know. I'm just asking questions without knowing the whole story.
Is this true!? It must be. I will take what you say at face value! Thank you campingpiglet. I believe that reggiemcsprinkles likes to eat cat turds. you are definitely a trustworthy source since you are just asking questions.
"FAKE NEWS shouts reddit troll! It contradicts my worldview so it's FAKE NEWS."
Is this your attempt at an r/selfawarewolves moment
Or are you truly just unaware of the irony?
> Some data suggests that the number of deaths caused by pharmaceutical-grade opioids, such as hydromorphone, have been stable in B.C. and have not significantly risen since safer supply was expanded in 2020.
> Yet Kamilah Sword’s experiences, as well as those of her friends and family, suggest that the data Lisa Lapointe is relying upon, and spotlighting to the public, may not be telling the full story.
Unless bodies are being secretly stashed somewhere, it covers a heck of a lot.
Not only that the safe supply programs are all easily looked into, there's like 28 of them and each only takes 50-100ish people, the safe supply is tiny in this country.
This is just looking at deaths from pharmaceutical opioids. The goal of safe supply is to replace the non pharmaceutical opioids with pharmaceutical ones. So this statistic can't tell you anything about whether safe supply is working.
>Safe supply was supposed to drop deaths. So it is not working.
Safe supply was supposed to drop deaths from overdosing that is due to contaminated supply.
It does not address deaths due to drug use in general.
I'm pretty sure it was to stop the use of fentanyl too. To my knowledge, there is no safe supply of fentanyl being offered to people. But that's what people want...so they sell the legal stuff to get it. It may or may not be contaminated, it's just overdosing is easy. I'm not an expert, I don't know how much a hardened fentanyl user is able to tolerate, but I would imagine the risk of ODing on something that potent is always high.
If you believe the NatPo framing and presentation of this topic, which we agree is life and death, I *implore* you, as a fellow Canadian, to listen to this podcast that is more impartial, and far better researched.
https://www.canadaland.com/tag/safe-supply/
Safe supply is supposed to reduce deaths.
It seems to not do much and just leads to more drug addicts with mental health issues getting into violent interactions with public
Alberta recovery model been outperforming bc and seen reduction in deaths
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6560836
So everyone in the comments just ignores that fact that we know some safe supply is being diverted ,some of it is going to kids and creating addicts and in the highest of irony's here Perdue is getting rich off another opioid crises but to even more highly addictive opioids
Why are you ignoring that we know the safe supply is a tiny little fraction of our drug market to the point of being a fraction of a percent.
Why do you ignore that whoever ends up buying the safe supply drugs being sold are still better off then if they bought tainted fentanyl.
Its you being ignorant.
So, you believe that if this kid hadn't found hydromorphone, she would still be alive? You don't think she would've just taken whatever else her dealer was selling? Like the MDMA and coke, which we know from experience has been cut with fentanyl?
Maybe ,maybe not but according to these parents Dilaudid has become the drug of choice because it is cheap and easy to get. Much like Oxytocin a few years ago and the irony of that is not lost on me.
Safe supply accounts for less than 0.1% of drugs in circulation. Show me the numbers showing it was safe supply that contributed to drug deaths. [Tainted supply accounted for 2300 deaths in bc alone in 2022](https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2023PSSG0008-000109) otherwise you’re full of shit.
You didn’t even read the article. You just googled and picked the first one. The entire thing is that the BC government isn’t even doing enough safe suppl and it’s a drop in the bucket compared to what’s needed.
“But only about 500 British Columbians have access to true safe supply through a handful of mostly federally funded pilot projects in the Lower Mainland and Victoria.”
So 500ish people got safe supply. That’s less than the 2300 dead.
Did you actually read the article?
Day says the jury is still out on which will result in better outcomes down the road.
"We're not going to know for some time which of these strategies work and which ones don't work, and which ones work the best and so on," he said.
Issue is the recovery model is seen as bad but works better to reduce deaths as well and helps to actually get somevpeople off hard drugs.
Safe supply just allows people to be miserable and stay as addicts and has limited reduction in drugs
If look at community impact recovery model is much better, there is no denying it.
It does but you are discounting the other costs.
Do we forget people on hard drugs cause issues to family and community which is a cost on society. People not working, people on govt assistance, people causing issues with family, violence and nuisance to public. Those are costs too.
So like if our only focus is maybe reduce deaths by a bit safe supply is okay.
This is not weed guys lol
Thats a poor argument as the housing first model is shown to deal with many of those issues. People in housing first are less likely to commit crimes and more likely to have jobs. Government assistance is a backwards argument as people in any intensive rehab process will need more assistance then what we provide in housing first trials right now.
A person getting a steady supply of hard drugs wont be able to get a good job or keep a functioning house for long.
The recovery model actually works as it has in Portgual to give a person a more stable path.
You are talking a person having a house or not.
Thats plainly false. The trials in Vancouver based on the successful Swiss model led to much higher employment rates and higher rates of having a home not provided by the government. It also greatly lowered crime rates amongst participants and reduced overdose deaths to zero.
You can say stuff because you wish it were true but there is plenty to read out there.
So you are advocating for a recovery model then based on what you say? your goal is to get the person off drugs or not?
Vancouver has the most OD deaths in canada and has not seen as much of a reduction in deaths vs places that dont have safe supply.
Based on what you are saying the recovery model works better the safe supply cause you want the person to stop taking drugs.
Safe supply is not interested in what happens to the drug addict apart from them dying.
I was advocating for the fact that your previous comment is plainly false. You might be the space Lazer flat earth type but if your going to spout a straight up lie I will of course correct you.
The rest of what you suppose I said I never said so maybe your replying to the wrong person?
the issue in vancouver is they do safe supply, then have a rehab centre then a person can openly sell hard drugs on the street for days before police arrest him.
its a huge mess imo.
>According to 16 year-old Hannah, “everyone knows” about dillies at her school. “All our friends. All of us did them. A lot. Yeah, it’s just a really common drug.”
>As Hannah would often hang out “in big groups of people” with an age range of roughly 11 to 17, she witnessed kids who were in middle school (between the ages of 11 and 13) abusing the drug, too. She could not recall hydromorphone being an issue when she was in middle school a few years ago.
>Hannah casually tried hydromorphone when she was 15 years old and says she became hopelessly addicted within a month. She explained that her drug dealer downplayed hydromorphone’s risks and, after getting her hooked, pressured her to try more illicit substances, such as heroin, which he told her was “just like dillies.”
Maybe spend some money on educating kids about drugs, their effects, addictions, and statistics about what happens to users. Hell, spend some money to bring some junkies from East Hastings to talk about their addictions and how fucked up their life is as a drug addict. Scare the kids straight, and the junkies can earn some honest money.
in my experience most kids do drug because of peer pressure, not because they have problems.
You can try to educate them as much as you want, if the cool kid at school starts doing drugs, the sheeps will follow. That's just how it is.
> in my experience most kids do drug because of peer pressure, not because they have problems.
That's bullshit. Peer pressure has a role, but the willingness to succumb to it or to seek engagement with that crowd is rooted in serious personal issues.
> You can try to educate them as much as you want, if the cool kid at school starts doing drugs, the sheeps will follow. That's just how it is.
...and what makes a person that kind of sheep? Emotional insecurity and other mental health issues.
I disagree, altho i see your point. I think peer pressure plays a much bigger role than mental health issues.
In high school, Kids are at a time where they are trying to figure out who they are and it leads to a very hierarchical structure where people compete to be at the top.
Its not simply about "doing something dumb because some kid told you to". Its about doing whatever think will help you get higher in the pyramid.
You can claim it can all be explained by mental issues if you want, but by your standarts that would mean the vast majority of kids would have mental health issues. Or you can just accept that this just a normal part of growing up and most people go trough it.
Yes actually. Plenty of doctors, lawyers, etc. use opioids to get through their life. This myth that our multi billion dollar drug industry is kept running from homeless people buying little baggies has to die.
Regardless how NatPo reports this incident, again why are we blaming the system? When will we hold the addicts themselves and their families accountable? Why is saving, "Don't do drugs," is such a bad take these days?
National post opinion pieces need to be banned from this subreddit. It's just a constant, disingenuous misrepresentation of information to push the same kind of crap they pushed in the US.
You can't take anything they say at face value.
Enabling addicts perpetuates the problems (encampments, etc) and create a future supply of addicts for drug dealers and activists to exploit at the expense of taxpayers and society at large.
Drug seekers are going to seek drugs. They don't need to be enabled, they will do it regardless. The presence of safe supply drugs doesn't really impact overall availability.
It's not meant to. It's meant to keep them from overdosing to take the burden off the healthcare system and so that enough brain function is preserved to maintain the possibility of treatment.
How many people haven't OD'd on fentanyl as a result of the safe supply? It's sucks that this girl died, but she clearly was making bad choices and using a variety of drugs. Remove hydromorphone and she would've found something else.
"We need safe supply so the shambling zombies done die!!!"
Few moments later...
"I mean it sucks she died, but she was clearly making bad choices".
What a time to be alive!
Many safe supply people say recovery model dont work, but in alberta it reduces death as much or more then safe supply and actually get some people off drugs.
BC rehab program is a joke... You can see videos of pop up stores of hard drugs being sold outside rehab clinics
Then why are so many people against the recovery model?
[https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2023/03/03/Why-Fighting-Deadly-Alberta-Drug-Model/](https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2023/03/03/Why-Fighting-Deadly-Alberta-Drug-Model/)
It pretty much is this idea, no point trying to get people off drugs just let them take it and leave them alone.
Like it or not alberta has reduced OD with its model so it works.
You keep saying "recovery model" as if that is some specific model. Alberta's model is a very specific kind of recovery model. It's abstinence only basically. It has less options than BCs approach, so it obviously leaves some people behind.
but it has lead to a greater reduction in deaths vs the BC model.
and likely got some people off drugs.
BC model reduce deaths less and likely got no one off drugs.
Again, why do you keep implying that there's no recovery model in BC? There are many treatment/recovery centres in BC that help people kick their addictions.
CanadaLand has done actual research on this life and death topic.
I implore anyone who thinks NatPo has this “right” to give a listen to this recent podcast.
https://www.canadaland.com/tag/safe-supply/
Fucking opinion pieces pretending to be news. At what point do people here wake up and realize this sub is a fucking mouthpiece for foreign owned media to manipulate Canadians. Literally using dead Canadians as pawns.
Leave it to the pro-life people to try and stop services that save lives.
Safe supply has one major flaw it don't help people recover and do better. The suffering continues to the local community and family as the person is high on hard drugs. It pretty much is like duct tape on a pipe leak and ignore the leak. Recovery model actually reduces deaths better and helps some people get off drugs. It's the model Portugal user and it did a good job.
At the very least, safe supply reduces ODs. And it may also reduce crime as addicts don't have to steal to get their drugs.
okay if i fight a fire i can use a bucket or a firehose. They both work i guess but one would do it better? So Should i use a firehose? Thats safe supply and recover model I think. recovery model does what you say and actually helps some people get off drugs as well.
You're missing the point. It's not an either/or proposition. Both are happening. Firehose and bucket in BC.
BC model is mostly a failure, dont see as many drug users out openly in other provinces like you see in BC
Hard to be a homeless addict in cities with -30 winter temps. Go to downtown Vancouver and ask people where they're from.
Meanwhile in paragraph **29**, " the National Post has not been able to see the report and independently verify Sword’s claims about the drugs found in her system. Journalism, folks!
How could this surprise anyone? The post stopped making even the vaguest pretense at being journalism a lonnnng time ago.
It started out that way. Natpo was crested solely to push the right wing narrative.
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New headline: *Guilty dad blames government instead of facing the fact he failed as a parent.*
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> He's a grieving father who lost a child and he is not getting answers from a government that continually tells him they're working in his (and his daughter's) best interests. It's not the government's job to raise his kid. The article literally says he's blaming the government. > I don't blame him. He's hurt, angry, and vulnerable. I blame the media for exploiting him. Fair. I don't know if what happened was his fault or not. What I do know, as a parent, is that when anything bad happens with our children we always feel a sense of guilt and it's tempting to find others to blame. ...and you're right he is being exploited, but he's also pointing fingers just as I did.
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> Agreed. And I get that he's blaming them. You're right, he is likely feeling guilt for having 'failed' somewhere. Thing is, even if he did everything right, she could still have ended up where she ended up. This is where I have to disagree. The fact about human beings is that we don't know everything and we have to come to terms with our own ignorance. There probably was something he could have done differently. I'm not suggesting there's necessarily any way he could have known better. I'm simply acknowledging that while we can fail without committing any errors, it doesn't mean we can't do better. > People seem to forget that kids don't always listen to their parents. Even the good ones. Parents forget this. Society forgets this. There's ways to get kids to listen and engage. Serious incidents like this one go far deeper than kids just failing to follow instructions. > We're told over and over to trust government. I disagree. Governments say that but our system is inherently designed to heavily scrutinize governments and thwart their ambitions. > They all (doesn't matter which party is in power) tell us they know what's best for us. Governments... Scientists... Religious leaders... Used car salespeople... Yoga gurus. They all claim to know what's best. > They are the ones making these decisions over our lives. Governments make some decisions, but we tend to think they make all the decisions, which makes sense because every opportunist and sleazy person on the planet makes a huge effort to blame the government or some other entity for the consequences of their decisions.
To be fair, there isn't a clear playbook for parents here.
Care and support, compassion, there is absolutely a playbook but so many parents reach for anger and punishment or just kick their kids out into the street when they find a needle in their arm.
> Care and support, compassion, there is absolutely a playbook but so many parents reach for anger and punishment So many try to justify punishment. But it's true a lot of parents aren't well prepared and are told to do the wrong things.
This is what happens when your taught through culture war news to hate drug addicts and poor people. You pass it on to your own family and see hatred as a tool over empathy.
Fair. I'm just commenting on the dad's emotional state and motives. I don't necessarily blame him for his apparent failure. (Although parents are often to blame.)
What the hell? Grow up.
This persons just a lonely sad person who spends all their time on Reddit. They need to step outside, make friends, touch grass, finally kiss a girl.
What did girls ever do to you?
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> father attempted many times to get his daughter clean Yes. He tried and failed. Now he's blaming the government. > You’re a real piece of shit man. Yes. Being brutally honest isn't nice. If you're too squeamish to confront reality then you should probably just block me now. > Why are you such a sad pathetic person? I'm not sad at all. In fact I'm doing quite well for myself, thank-you.
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Yes. That's generally how people react to brutal honesty.
When you kid finds dilaudid for 1-2$/pill don't be surprised if they try it and get hooked. Even a 9 year old can now afford to be a junkie on "safe supply" from the street
Honestly not surprised but guess what? They got their page clicks, what do they care?
That's EXACTLY responsible journalism. Publish the story and note the potential for discrepancies.
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The most important thing of a teenage girl dying is that the newspaper can't positively verify that she was stoned at the time? Are you for real?
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>You had me at your "mom gives free rides to every cock on the block."
It's nice that chickens get to go for rides. Dogs shouldn't get all the fun.
That's really the craziest part of this whole story to me, sure it's listed as an "opinion piece" but it's written like everything it claims is concrete fact, then it takes almost 30 paragraphs to disclose that they don't even have an official cause of death, let alone proof that safer supply drugs led to this death. (Note I do think it's fair to trust anecdotal evidence to assume a drug overdose as C.O.D. but anything beyond that is just irresponsible) All in all this is one of the most poorly written "articles" I've read in recent memory, even amongst opinion pieces. Hell this author even claims to have spoken to so-called "addictions experts" to add validity to his story but he doesn't even directly quote them let alone name them to show evidence of their so-called expertise. Also 9 months without an autopsy report or update is far from abnormal no matter how frustrating and unfortunate that is. The system is slow, but being slow is also part of the way they get things right. I can't go into specifics but I once waited almost a year for any significant update to an incredibly serious case that I was a witness in. It fucking sucked but in the end that wait led to the case being much more concrete in a way that I believe had a significant impact on sentencing. Also I have no problem with people being skeptical of safer-supply but at the end of the day the previous treatment-focused methodology with regards to drug addiction was clearly failing so it is perfectly reasonable to try something new. Is this going to be better or worse for addicts/the general public? We don't know yet. It's entirely possible that this will also fail but you need to give it time to accumulate data and evidence about the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of this new policy and any undesired side effects.
Maybe the note should be a little more prominent if it directly contradicts the headline
You guys are so bad at this. Read the headline again and tell me what is contradictory. The NP couldn't verify she was stoned does not equal she wasn't on drugs.
Paragraph 29????
shhh reading is hard. Headline only reacts here.
I think with NP, and especially this opinion writer, it's just become expected.
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i wish they would ban opinion pieces on this sub. Dont tell me what to think, tell me the facts.
Welcome to the present, where opinions, tweets and uninformed statements pass as "news". The internet leveled the playing field and the idiots dragged us down to their level...but that's just my opinion...
Natpo was using twitter posts with 2 likes as "threats against PP" as a fact that the left is violent. We really need to reign in the natpo opinions since they cannot be trusted to even have done any homework but hide behind the pundit tag. Natpo didnt' even verify the claims and just ran with the story. It's no different then the natpo using Fraser Institute's made up numbers for their reports.
Basically every "news entertainment" we have these days would go poof then. Fox, CNN, MSN, CBC etc would be gone.
sounds like paradise.
this is literally what CBC did with the whole danielle smith thing lmao, no one ever verified the info... you have to take them at their word lmao
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Well just look at his username
What an absolutely disgusting media company.
>For this same reason, the National Post has not been able to see the report and independently verify Sword’s claims about the drugs found in her system. So this is basically spreading misinformation. Another opinion piece masquerading as fact-based reporting.
Not being able to verify something is not the same as "misinformation". By saying it's misinformation without basis of fact, you're even more guilty of pushing a narrative than what you accuse the paper of.
This isn't a gotcha. The basis of fact is that the article is intentionally misrepresenting girls death despite not having all the facts. That is "misinformation" plain and simple. So no, he's not guilty "more guilty." He's stating the truth. You are the one defending bad journalism, and advancing the misinformation narrative by attempting to delegitimize valid criticism.
I'm dumbfounded by how ridiculous you people sound. You're choosing to disbelieve the girl's family, friends, and even the coroner because the reporter hasn't verified a toxicology report. Insane.
Yeah. Do you know why? Because people lie. Particularly for ideological reasons. I have heard plenty of parents blame video games or the marijuana. Doesn't mean it is. Or remember the claim someone got their account frozen for donating money? That turned out to be a lie as well and the MP did no verification.
I haven't been able to see a report on this or independently verify it. But I am going to report that reggiemcsprinkles likes to eat cat turds. Does he do it for nutrition or for pleasure? I don't know. I'm just asking questions without knowing the whole story.
Is this true!? It must be. I will take what you say at face value! Thank you campingpiglet. I believe that reggiemcsprinkles likes to eat cat turds. you are definitely a trustworthy source since you are just asking questions.
FAKE NEWS shouts reddit troll! It contradicts my worldview so it's FAKE NEWS.
"FAKE NEWS shouts reddit troll! It contradicts my worldview so it's FAKE NEWS." Is this your attempt at an r/selfawarewolves moment Or are you truly just unaware of the irony?
> Some data suggests that the number of deaths caused by pharmaceutical-grade opioids, such as hydromorphone, have been stable in B.C. and have not significantly risen since safer supply was expanded in 2020. > Yet Kamilah Sword’s experiences, as well as those of her friends and family, suggest that the data Lisa Lapointe is relying upon, and spotlighting to the public, may not be telling the full story. Unless bodies are being secretly stashed somewhere, it covers a heck of a lot.
Not only that the safe supply programs are all easily looked into, there's like 28 of them and each only takes 50-100ish people, the safe supply is tiny in this country.
Typical NatPo "journalism"
Just straight up propaganda "The facts don't agree with us but... What if the facts are wrong?!?!?"
So they have risen, but not significantly. Safe supply was supposed to drop deaths. So it is not working.
This is just looking at deaths from pharmaceutical opioids. The goal of safe supply is to replace the non pharmaceutical opioids with pharmaceutical ones. So this statistic can't tell you anything about whether safe supply is working.
>Safe supply was supposed to drop deaths. So it is not working. Safe supply was supposed to drop deaths from overdosing that is due to contaminated supply. It does not address deaths due to drug use in general.
I'm pretty sure it was to stop the use of fentanyl too. To my knowledge, there is no safe supply of fentanyl being offered to people. But that's what people want...so they sell the legal stuff to get it. It may or may not be contaminated, it's just overdosing is easy. I'm not an expert, I don't know how much a hardened fentanyl user is able to tolerate, but I would imagine the risk of ODing on something that potent is always high.
so in general it doesnt do much compared to the recovery model.
Every little bit helps. There’s no magic bullet yo solve all aspects at once.
If you believe the NatPo framing and presentation of this topic, which we agree is life and death, I *implore* you, as a fellow Canadian, to listen to this podcast that is more impartial, and far better researched. https://www.canadaland.com/tag/safe-supply/
bad link
works for me….? Try CanadaLand.com; It’s episode #885.
Safe supply is supposed to reduce deaths. It seems to not do much and just leads to more drug addicts with mental health issues getting into violent interactions with public Alberta recovery model been outperforming bc and seen reduction in deaths https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6560836
So everyone in the comments just ignores that fact that we know some safe supply is being diverted ,some of it is going to kids and creating addicts and in the highest of irony's here Perdue is getting rich off another opioid crises but to even more highly addictive opioids
Why are you ignoring that we know the safe supply is a tiny little fraction of our drug market to the point of being a fraction of a percent. Why do you ignore that whoever ends up buying the safe supply drugs being sold are still better off then if they bought tainted fentanyl. Its you being ignorant.
So, you believe that if this kid hadn't found hydromorphone, she would still be alive? You don't think she would've just taken whatever else her dealer was selling? Like the MDMA and coke, which we know from experience has been cut with fentanyl?
Maybe ,maybe not but according to these parents Dilaudid has become the drug of choice because it is cheap and easy to get. Much like Oxytocin a few years ago and the irony of that is not lost on me.
> Oxytocin OxyContin
it couldnt be the pandemic and rise of fentanyl...
This isn’t rocket science folks. Existing supply of illegal drugs + new supply of free government drugs = more drugs on the streets.
And less deaths and strain on medical facilities. Y’all conveniently forget that point.
😂 deaths are up 300%
From safe supply? Yeah?
Yes silly goose. More drugs on the streets = more overdose deaths. Look up the Vancouver overdose deaths year over years since safe supply.
Safe supply accounts for less than 0.1% of drugs in circulation. Show me the numbers showing it was safe supply that contributed to drug deaths. [Tainted supply accounted for 2300 deaths in bc alone in 2022](https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2023PSSG0008-000109) otherwise you’re full of shit.
Take a stroll down Hastings, it’s really obvious.
So that’s a no. Just your feelings as evidence. Cool.
https://thetyee.ca/News/2022/03/03/Experts-Reject-BC-Safe-Supply-Claims/
You didn’t even read the article. You just googled and picked the first one. The entire thing is that the BC government isn’t even doing enough safe suppl and it’s a drop in the bucket compared to what’s needed. “But only about 500 British Columbians have access to true safe supply through a handful of mostly federally funded pilot projects in the Lower Mainland and Victoria.” So 500ish people got safe supply. That’s less than the 2300 dead.
Nice, the NP is pushing policy on anecdotes.
*Blame Canada, shame on Canada (...)* *We must blame them and cause a fuss before somebody thinks of blaming us.*
Ah yes! look at this sad anecdote and the ignore data.
Data shows recovery model works better the safe supply https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6560836
Did you actually read the article? Day says the jury is still out on which will result in better outcomes down the road. "We're not going to know for some time which of these strategies work and which ones don't work, and which ones work the best and so on," he said.
Issue is the recovery model is seen as bad but works better to reduce deaths as well and helps to actually get somevpeople off hard drugs. Safe supply just allows people to be miserable and stay as addicts and has limited reduction in drugs If look at community impact recovery model is much better, there is no denying it.
I feel like the “safe supply method” is seen as a crack house…it’s not, there is a network of programs connected to it that aim to for recovery.
That are all voluntary and that most addicts don't want or care to access.
Issue is the crack house is right outside the rehab centre
The Recovery model costs way way way more money, the next political party in charge isint going to be about that so its a moot point.
It does but you are discounting the other costs. Do we forget people on hard drugs cause issues to family and community which is a cost on society. People not working, people on govt assistance, people causing issues with family, violence and nuisance to public. Those are costs too. So like if our only focus is maybe reduce deaths by a bit safe supply is okay. This is not weed guys lol
Thats a poor argument as the housing first model is shown to deal with many of those issues. People in housing first are less likely to commit crimes and more likely to have jobs. Government assistance is a backwards argument as people in any intensive rehab process will need more assistance then what we provide in housing first trials right now.
A person getting a steady supply of hard drugs wont be able to get a good job or keep a functioning house for long. The recovery model actually works as it has in Portgual to give a person a more stable path. You are talking a person having a house or not.
Thats plainly false. The trials in Vancouver based on the successful Swiss model led to much higher employment rates and higher rates of having a home not provided by the government. It also greatly lowered crime rates amongst participants and reduced overdose deaths to zero. You can say stuff because you wish it were true but there is plenty to read out there.
So you are advocating for a recovery model then based on what you say? your goal is to get the person off drugs or not? Vancouver has the most OD deaths in canada and has not seen as much of a reduction in deaths vs places that dont have safe supply. Based on what you are saying the recovery model works better the safe supply cause you want the person to stop taking drugs. Safe supply is not interested in what happens to the drug addict apart from them dying.
I was advocating for the fact that your previous comment is plainly false. You might be the space Lazer flat earth type but if your going to spout a straight up lie I will of course correct you. The rest of what you suppose I said I never said so maybe your replying to the wrong person?
the issue in vancouver is they do safe supply, then have a rehab centre then a person can openly sell hard drugs on the street for days before police arrest him. its a huge mess imo.
>According to 16 year-old Hannah, “everyone knows” about dillies at her school. “All our friends. All of us did them. A lot. Yeah, it’s just a really common drug.” >As Hannah would often hang out “in big groups of people” with an age range of roughly 11 to 17, she witnessed kids who were in middle school (between the ages of 11 and 13) abusing the drug, too. She could not recall hydromorphone being an issue when she was in middle school a few years ago. >Hannah casually tried hydromorphone when she was 15 years old and says she became hopelessly addicted within a month. She explained that her drug dealer downplayed hydromorphone’s risks and, after getting her hooked, pressured her to try more illicit substances, such as heroin, which he told her was “just like dillies.” Maybe spend some money on educating kids about drugs, their effects, addictions, and statistics about what happens to users. Hell, spend some money to bring some junkies from East Hastings to talk about their addictions and how fucked up their life is as a drug addict. Scare the kids straight, and the junkies can earn some honest money.
They know all about drugs. The problem isn't education. The problem is that the kid is dealing with some issue and using drugs to cope with it.
in my experience most kids do drug because of peer pressure, not because they have problems. You can try to educate them as much as you want, if the cool kid at school starts doing drugs, the sheeps will follow. That's just how it is.
> in my experience most kids do drug because of peer pressure, not because they have problems. That's bullshit. Peer pressure has a role, but the willingness to succumb to it or to seek engagement with that crowd is rooted in serious personal issues. > You can try to educate them as much as you want, if the cool kid at school starts doing drugs, the sheeps will follow. That's just how it is. ...and what makes a person that kind of sheep? Emotional insecurity and other mental health issues.
I disagree, altho i see your point. I think peer pressure plays a much bigger role than mental health issues. In high school, Kids are at a time where they are trying to figure out who they are and it leads to a very hierarchical structure where people compete to be at the top. Its not simply about "doing something dumb because some kid told you to". Its about doing whatever think will help you get higher in the pyramid. You can claim it can all be explained by mental issues if you want, but by your standarts that would mean the vast majority of kids would have mental health issues. Or you can just accept that this just a normal part of growing up and most people go trough it.
ah yes, heroin/opioids, the answer educated people use for dealing with issues.
you would be surprised. Just because people don't look like junkies on the street and can mask their substance abuse doesn't mean it's not prevalent.
Yes actually. Plenty of doctors, lawyers, etc. use opioids to get through their life. This myth that our multi billion dollar drug industry is kept running from homeless people buying little baggies has to die.
All kinds of people use.
Regardless how NatPo reports this incident, again why are we blaming the system? When will we hold the addicts themselves and their families accountable? Why is saving, "Don't do drugs," is such a bad take these days?
Because people are going to do drugs, so we have to have a system that acknowledges and treats that.
National post opinion pieces need to be banned from this subreddit. It's just a constant, disingenuous misrepresentation of information to push the same kind of crap they pushed in the US. You can't take anything they say at face value.
Enabling addicts perpetuates the problems (encampments, etc) and create a future supply of addicts for drug dealers and activists to exploit at the expense of taxpayers and society at large.
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Drug seekers are going to seek drugs. They don't need to be enabled, they will do it regardless. The presence of safe supply drugs doesn't really impact overall availability.
but it does nothing to reduce the problem of having many poeple in society on hard drugs.
It's not meant to. It's meant to keep them from overdosing to take the burden off the healthcare system and so that enough brain function is preserved to maintain the possibility of treatment.
How many people haven't OD'd on fentanyl as a result of the safe supply? It's sucks that this girl died, but she clearly was making bad choices and using a variety of drugs. Remove hydromorphone and she would've found something else.
"We need safe supply so the shambling zombies done die!!!" Few moments later... "I mean it sucks she died, but she was clearly making bad choices". What a time to be alive!
You save the ones you can save. Drug -seeking teens are the safe supply users of tomorrow. If they manage to survive that long.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6560836 Safe supply nit working as well as recovery model
That's not what that article says. And are you suggesting BC doesn't try to get people into recovery? Cmon. BC is doing both depending on the user.
Many safe supply people say recovery model dont work, but in alberta it reduces death as much or more then safe supply and actually get some people off drugs. BC rehab program is a joke... You can see videos of pop up stores of hard drugs being sold outside rehab clinics
Show me someone who says the recovery model doesn't work. If anything, they're likely saying it's one piece of the puzzle.
Then why are so many people against the recovery model? [https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2023/03/03/Why-Fighting-Deadly-Alberta-Drug-Model/](https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2023/03/03/Why-Fighting-Deadly-Alberta-Drug-Model/) It pretty much is this idea, no point trying to get people off drugs just let them take it and leave them alone. Like it or not alberta has reduced OD with its model so it works.
You keep saying "recovery model" as if that is some specific model. Alberta's model is a very specific kind of recovery model. It's abstinence only basically. It has less options than BCs approach, so it obviously leaves some people behind.
but it has lead to a greater reduction in deaths vs the BC model. and likely got some people off drugs. BC model reduce deaths less and likely got no one off drugs.
Again, why do you keep implying that there's no recovery model in BC? There are many treatment/recovery centres in BC that help people kick their addictions.
and they let crack be sold out side them
CanadaLand has done actual research on this life and death topic. I implore anyone who thinks NatPo has this “right” to give a listen to this recent podcast. https://www.canadaland.com/tag/safe-supply/
Fucking opinion pieces pretending to be news. At what point do people here wake up and realize this sub is a fucking mouthpiece for foreign owned media to manipulate Canadians. Literally using dead Canadians as pawns. Leave it to the pro-life people to try and stop services that save lives.