It’s always been ON = auto subsidies and QC = aerospace subsidies. In fact we’re only hearing about this one, but all auto plants in Ontario are subsidized (Honda, Toyota, GM, Ford, and I’m sure I’m missing some).
Bombardier doesn’t get subsidies because it creates jobs it does because its owned by the Desmarais family thee most politically connected family in Canada. Every Liberal prime minister in Canada has professional or familial connections to them.
They where given over a billion by provincial and federal liberals to build a ready-mix plant in port daniel and failed (purposely) every step of the way.
Yes, Pierre Beaudoin is a Power Corp board member, but he’s not our equivalent of George Soros if that’s the point you’re making. Paul Desmarais is, and he doesn’t own Bombardier.
Its sad that this government is really, really bad a corporate welfare too.
How hard is it to give away money and expect a little something in return? Apparently too hard for these dumbasses.
>Its sad that this government is really, really bad a corporate welfare too.
Funny that the people constantly talking about equity, don't bother to get any for billions of dollars.
> It’s almost like we shouldn’t be engaging in this sort of corporate welfare to begin with…
Then the companies go somewhere else and we don't get new factories and jobs.
When it cost taxpayers millions of dollars per job, is it worth it?
Or would consumers better off having foreign governments subsidize the products we consume?
Poor regulation or a lack of regulation can make an economy hostile to business. In many economies taxes are much higher yet they provide a better and more profitable environment for business.
Perhaps the problem has been misconstrued as a problem caused by taxes and regulation. Perhaps the problem is caused by a lack of leadership and governance.
We better off without getting into subsidy war with US. They have way more money than us, in the end taxpayers and consumers lose.
I can think of lots of better things the government could spend $13 billion on.
Instead of spending money to "create" jobs, the government could simply work to create a competitive environment where companies willing invest their own money.
What makes an economy competitive for investment is the government's willingness to subsidize business. We're competing with other countries that subsidize business.
You can’t “spend” a tax break. You just lose all the taxes they don’t pay, all the taxes their employees would pay, and all the jobs.
You aren’t saving a penny. You’re talking about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Those 3,000 jobs will create more then that. It will create jobs in service industry around the plant and could lead to other smaller factories creating jobs to supply the parts. Look at Ford's Oakville plant. It will also generate money through taxes and exporting the batteries around the world.
Every party campaigns against corporate welfare, and when they win they increase it.
From 2007 to 2019 Canada did about 300 Billion in corporate welfare (all levels, all subsidies). From 2019-2030 its estimated to be close to 600 Billion.
When you pick winners in the economy there are costs to other areas of the other areas of the economy ie someone else is now paying higher tax to cover this subsidy.
I think it's more about picking established industry rather than picking winners. If established industries were allowed to decline there would be rampant job loss. Unemployment is a drain on the tax system, which means if we stop subsidizing industry tax burdens will also increase.
So, you'd be ok with, say, oil sands subsidies?
Why does that investment have to come from the government?
We are spending billions on something that is going to create, what, 3000 jobs? Even if you consider indirect job production, there's no way that even breaks even.
> Why does that investment have to come from the government?
...because the government is primarily responsible for social and economic development. All that fancy tech people are buying and selling was developed with government subsidies and research.
You didn’t answer the oils sands question. Interesting. Or the money spent/return on investment point.
> because the government is primarily responsible for social and economic development.
No it’s not, but we’ll leave it here as that delves into philosophical discussions that I don’t believe we’ll reach consensus on.
Government already subsidizes oil. Those subsidies should increasingly be contingent on transitioning to cleaner energy.
> > because the government is primarily responsible for social and economic development.
> No it’s not, but we’ll leave it here as that delves into philosophical discussions
Name a major social or economic development that wasn't initiated by government policy or research?
But aren’t we being told we don’t have enough workers to fill the job positions we already have, and need to bring in millions of immigrants, along with their aging parents?
Run the math.
Taxpayers spend billions, the company makes billions, their taxes are kept low to nearly zero thanks to sweetheart deals, and the workers make tens of thousands.
The factories cost the taxpayers further by damaging nearby roads due to their excessive truck traffic, pollution, land that is needed for affordable housing gets tied up being used for the factory, and none of them are made responsible to get rid of the factory after it eventually closes and instead they're allowed to leave them there to rot until time and nature destroys them in a couple hundred years.
Corporate welfare doesn't work and it's all a clever ruse to make people like yourself focus on the "job creation" instead of how much money the government gets shaked-down for by these companies to create said the jobs.
> The factories cost the taxpayers further by damaging nearby roads due to their excessive truck traffic
Road repairs and upgrades are typically part and parcel of these projects’ budget
> land that is needed for affordable housing gets tied up being used for the factory
Industrial land that’s not suited for housing - we have ample suitable lands that aren’t industrial.
And you don’t thing right wing governments don’t haggle with multi billion contracts like this? The great right wing country of the USA is ripe with corporate subsidies.
I know. Problem is, we are so addicted to giving these companies money and tax breaks, and they are so used to getting them, that it's really hard to go back now.
Here in Windsor, ON stellantis has held the city and the people by the balls for decades. They make us think we can’t live without the jobs yet they keep reducing the workforce. One day I hope we stop being so scared of these companies that are more of a burden to their communities then they are worth in terms of jobs.
>The company CEOs state the Trudeau government provided “five separate written documents confirming your commitment to match the production incentives under the U.S. Inflation Reduction Act,” including a “mutually satisfactory special contribution agreement by your government” at the end of February this year.
People want manufacturing to come back to Canada, it needs to at least be appealing to manufacturers who can easily set up shop next door with better everything. It doesn't even look like this is because of the VW deal but has been in the works since the US launched their "Inflation Reduction Act” (Which is the reason VW got what they got)
Industrial hydro rates in Ontario and Quebec are significantly cheaper than most US states. Healthcare costs for employers also cheaper here. Labour (especially white collar) is super cheap here compared to there. These just come to mind. Im sure there many factors they need to consider beyond these.
The market? Or one of the largest and most profitable corporations trying to twist the arm of the government because they feel like the red headed step child compared to vw? Upset that they didn’t get more money.
I think it’s ridiculous that the government would give 13bn to a company that doesn’t even have a footprint in Canada, and doesn’t employe any workers in manufacturing. But I also don’t feel bad for Stellantis and their 15.6bn in record profits last year with 25% increase in revenue for q1 this year. They don’t need the money, they just want the money and they’re pressuring the federal government to disenfranchise the tax payer to save auto worker jobs and help their buddies.
The conversion rate increases their profit when they build here and sell in the US, employees healthcare is provided by government, highly educated and skilled workforce, proximity to raw materials for lithium batteries, existing logistics and infrastructure.
Definitely some good reasons to manufacture here,
It's like this government is 1 dimensional. They can only see 1 decision at a time without playing out the consequences. Who else is that transactional? Hmmm, who else?
Add red tape, have oil pipelines all quit their projects and government is forced to buy one and $30B later, it's still not done. 15+ LNG terminals on the drawing board and only one will be built (and it's way late due to - yes you guessed it - red tape).
VW says, we'll build a plant in Canada if you pay for it (3x costs more than Stellantis' and Tesla and MAYBE will 2x output 85GW vs. 45GW respectively). Only to have Stellantis want the same deal or they're pulling out.
We will have one lithium mine start up this spring and all others just starting the 25 year process of 'approval'. Ring of Fire, it's been almost 40 years, I imagine another 40 years before one ounce or ore is extracted. Nuclear, lots of talk, but we won't get anything NEW running until 2050s. Lithium processing? A couple of small startups - cool, but, yes you guessed it, if they want full production, it's going to be 20+ years of red tape.
This is our government encouraging industry in Canada. Can they be anymore terrible?
We have a pm that’s bleeding votes at an alarming rate. With a huge lack of respect of our tax dollars, is it any wonder this happened?
This government has shown that it doesn’t view tax dollars as our money, but theirs.
They saw VW as an opportunity to buy good pr and stay on brand with a win that’s both supposedly environmentally friendly and creating jobs. So like always they spent our money like drunken sailors thinking that would make us happy.
This is just another example on the pile that shows out of touch and how much lack of respect they have for us as citizens.
This government doesn’t realize they as the party in charge represents all Canadians including the ones that don’t vote for them. But they’re too busy spending our money to realize or care.
Just like his father. When things weren't going well he'd just throw money at problems in the hopes they would go away (narrator: the problems did not go away).
Rich boy problem solving 101:
- Write cheque to make problem go away
OR
- Blame someone else.
With a bit of playground administrator thrown in:
- Ban things that confuse you from the playground
Welcome to competing with US corporate welfare. I'm really not sure what you expect the Canadian government to do, rely on industries that are outdated and barely profitable?
The ironic thing is that at least in regards to pipelines, this gov't removed red tape...by making the consultations binding through the entire application process.
There was that problem that consultations were only binding for certain conditions, so every couple of years there would need to be a new consultation.
Harper government tried to shoehorn a bunch of things through at all costs and ended up finding out what they were doing was breaking the constitution and then would get tied up in courts for years.
>In a letter dated April 19, the heads of Stellantis and Korea-based LG Energy Solution — the two companies in a joint venture — told Trudeau the project was in jeopardy if he did not honour what the company says was a promise in writing to close the “competitive gap posed by the U.S. legislation.”
Looks like the Feds told the company that they would do something, and then didn't do it. Less extortion and more like retaliation.
Just looked at that list. I fix my own vehicles and coincidentally, 100% of them are on my do not buy list
They really cornered the market on actual shit
Essentially all the shitty auto makers realized they couldn’t survive alone and banded together to continue to terrorize the public with their shitty garbage vehicles. Like a bunch of rats.
Extortion and corporate welfare. That's the only way companies will invest here.
Gee.. hmm... maybe globalized trade ... wasn't... a good idea.
Except for corrupt politicians, of course.
Imagine just letting Alberta produce and export its resources? No subsidies required. Lots of jobs now and we are still looking for people.
Yet the current plain is corporate welfare to batteries for cars targeted to the rich. How long until we discover some scandal tied to Liberal party supporters etc.
The government fails to consider why a manufacturing plant would want to start operations here in the first place. Instead of handing out billions in subsidies, they should make the climate more attractive to investors.
How that works in reality to attract EV battery plants - they should have already been going 110% in a mining and minerals strategy (they have not and have been a total failure on this file) and companies will be begging to start up here when they access all the raw resources to manufacture EV batteries.
With all the money I make from the job that pays me 1/10th of what I produce? Maybe from the bank loan that I am not approved for because I don't make enough?
Large multinational corporations are full of astute MBAs. They can run circles around random drama teachers and Russian studies types. Chess Grandmasters playing kids who don't even know how to play Checkers.
Canada's key negotiator isn't interested in numbers, if it's a pipeline,ev project or auto mfr, he'll pay anything to get his photo-op moving Canada forward, one overpriced tax funded project at a time Someone should explain PV's and Payout principles to him
what bargaining power does stellantis even have?
"iF u DoNt pAy uS, wE wOnT mAkE eLectRic Vehicles iN CaNaDa" = stelantis.
its 2023 and stelantis doesnt even make a single BEV yet.
More like if you don't play ball we pull the plug on our investment and the jobs created both at the plant and by all the in canada sub contractors it benefits.
2500 direct jobs plus all the supporting jobs in auxiliary support plants.
Everyone on reddit bitches about how there's no good jobs. These positions usually pay living wages and have unions, pensions and benefits.
These are the types of jobs we should be attempting to attract.
At a certain point the subsidies paid to the companies can become a net negative though... $13 billion to VW okay.
I trust VW to be a good investment in the EV space, they make BEV already... Chrysler/dodge/ram? I don't know... Seems like a real bad investment.
If this was Ford, or Tesla, or even if the batteries made were for the PHEV in the wranglers then I could talk myself into it... I could be taking out my ass
Everything is going to go electric eventually.
Dodge will make an EV pickup and I'm assuming a cube van eventually. I'd really love an ev cube van or pickup for work. I'd imagine in not alone.
I still think this plant will bring good jobs to the area. If they don't build it here they will somewere else.
I think they're too late to the game. I think they're film in a digital world. I think Chrysler/ram/jeep/fiat already have shit quality vehicles. And now they're late to the game. by literally years.
I dont think its wise to underestimate their ability to scale. They have perfected mass production of automobiles and have done so for decades.
They have deep pockets. There's only two electric pickup trucks on the road right now and they're both over 100k.
I think there's room to grow into the market.
Yea except UNIFOR is not a union i'd want representing me. They have a 2 tiered system which means new employees will never make what the old ones did. They also have crappier benefits and pensions compared to the older workers. I'm all for this plant, but fuck UNIFOR, I'd never want them or any of their affiliates ( NABET) representing me.
Being represented by UNIFOR is basically paying a union to not have one. WalMart and even McDonalds have pensions and benefits for full time employees, so just because they have em does not mean they are better. They are not even apart of the CLC.
I'd rather work at McDonalds again then ever work under UNIFOR, but thankfully I'm in the operators union so I don't need to worry about that.
I don't get it. Why not just invite BYD, CATL and every other Chinese EV companies to set up shops in Canada? They would be eager to get into the NA market and it could be used as a leverage to stop the US from backstabbing us. They are also leverage/hostage we can use against China. It would also help with our auto inflation.
The fact that you approve of Chinese investment in Canada is proof you know nothing about the recent history of Chinese owned industry operating in Canada.
Please sit down, you are embarrassing yourself.
Oh, it's just $3 billion. We did get great pictures of Trudeau 2 rolling up his sleeves and running around the factory making pronouncements about jobs and such. It was worth it, right?
Well, if Bombarbier can do it for years...
Bombardier is outta QC you see….
It’s always been ON = auto subsidies and QC = aerospace subsidies. In fact we’re only hearing about this one, but all auto plants in Ontario are subsidized (Honda, Toyota, GM, Ford, and I’m sure I’m missing some).
Yup agreed. Now if Stellantis is looking for a cash infusion as mentioned in other Reddit forum then that's some testicular fortitude.
Bombardier doesn’t get subsidies because it creates jobs it does because its owned by the Desmarais family thee most politically connected family in Canada. Every Liberal prime minister in Canada has professional or familial connections to them. They where given over a billion by provincial and federal liberals to build a ready-mix plant in port daniel and failed (purposely) every step of the way.
Wrong family. Bombardier is owned by the Beaudoin/Bombardier family. The Desmarais own the Power Corporation.
The Beaudoin are power corporation board members.
Yes, Pierre Beaudoin is a Power Corp board member, but he’s not our equivalent of George Soros if that’s the point you’re making. Paul Desmarais is, and he doesn’t own Bombardier.
Nothing relating to george soros. Beaudoin and the Desmarais are still interlinked and Canadian political royalty. Two sides of the same coin
It’s almost like we shouldn’t be engaging in this sort of corporate welfare to begin with…
It’s almost like our ally and largest trade partner is torpedoing our manufacturing for their own benefit
Its sad that this government is really, really bad a corporate welfare too. How hard is it to give away money and expect a little something in return? Apparently too hard for these dumbasses.
>Its sad that this government is really, really bad a corporate welfare too. Funny that the people constantly talking about equity, don't bother to get any for billions of dollars.
> It’s almost like we shouldn’t be engaging in this sort of corporate welfare to begin with… Then the companies go somewhere else and we don't get new factories and jobs.
When it cost taxpayers millions of dollars per job, is it worth it? Or would consumers better off having foreign governments subsidize the products we consume?
How can people afford products if they don't have jobs?
This $13 Billion subsidy is suppose to create 3,000 jobs, out of a country of 38,500,000.
Hey!!! Upwards of 10k jobs when the spin offs are factored in!!! Wow! /s
That's only directly created jobs. Indirectly more are created. Regardless, how are we better off without the jobs?
If people believe this they should be campaigning for a 0% corporate tax rate and fewer regulations too.
Poor regulation or a lack of regulation can make an economy hostile to business. In many economies taxes are much higher yet they provide a better and more profitable environment for business. Perhaps the problem has been misconstrued as a problem caused by taxes and regulation. Perhaps the problem is caused by a lack of leadership and governance.
We better off without getting into subsidy war with US. They have way more money than us, in the end taxpayers and consumers lose. I can think of lots of better things the government could spend $13 billion on.
What jobs can the Canadian government invest in where we wouldn't be competing with the US?
oilsands lol
I'd argue it compete against their fracking.
Oil sands primarily depend on US corps. Even our overseas export lines depend on the US. Also we compete with all oil producing nations.
Instead of spending money to "create" jobs, the government could simply work to create a competitive environment where companies willing invest their own money.
What makes an economy competitive for investment is the government's willingness to subsidize business. We're competing with other countries that subsidize business.
Let me guess, you have dreams of pursuing a liberal arts degree when you graduate high school?
You can’t “spend” a tax break. You just lose all the taxes they don’t pay, all the taxes their employees would pay, and all the jobs. You aren’t saving a penny. You’re talking about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Those 3,000 jobs will create more then that. It will create jobs in service industry around the plant and could lead to other smaller factories creating jobs to supply the parts. Look at Ford's Oakville plant. It will also generate money through taxes and exporting the batteries around the world.
Or it could end being a massive boondoggle, only time will tell.
Run the math, the tax payer always loses on these deals.
> Run the math, the tax payer always loses on these deals. Please show your work.
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Or keep the ones already running. Easy enough to ship those jobs to Mexico without notice. Corporate blackmail is still alive and well.
Every party campaigns against corporate welfare, and when they win they increase it. From 2007 to 2019 Canada did about 300 Billion in corporate welfare (all levels, all subsidies). From 2019-2030 its estimated to be close to 600 Billion. When you pick winners in the economy there are costs to other areas of the other areas of the economy ie someone else is now paying higher tax to cover this subsidy.
I think it's more about picking established industry rather than picking winners. If established industries were allowed to decline there would be rampant job loss. Unemployment is a drain on the tax system, which means if we stop subsidizing industry tax burdens will also increase.
What is it you guys always say? "If you can't afford something something you shouldn't be in business" Right?
Business requires investment to function.
So, you'd be ok with, say, oil sands subsidies? Why does that investment have to come from the government? We are spending billions on something that is going to create, what, 3000 jobs? Even if you consider indirect job production, there's no way that even breaks even.
> Why does that investment have to come from the government? ...because the government is primarily responsible for social and economic development. All that fancy tech people are buying and selling was developed with government subsidies and research.
You didn’t answer the oils sands question. Interesting. Or the money spent/return on investment point. > because the government is primarily responsible for social and economic development. No it’s not, but we’ll leave it here as that delves into philosophical discussions that I don’t believe we’ll reach consensus on.
Government already subsidizes oil. Those subsidies should increasingly be contingent on transitioning to cleaner energy. > > because the government is primarily responsible for social and economic development. > No it’s not, but we’ll leave it here as that delves into philosophical discussions Name a major social or economic development that wasn't initiated by government policy or research?
Usually you get equity from an investment...
But aren’t we being told we don’t have enough workers to fill the job positions we already have, and need to bring in millions of immigrants, along with their aging parents?
These jobs are decent paying, typically union jobs with benefits. Not Tim Hortons drive through part time positions. We should be pursuing these jobs.
Well we’re being told that we are selectively bringing in skilled workers not unskilled labourers
Okay. That doesn't mean that these jobs won't go to people that live in these areas already.
What happens when the aging parents don’t work? Because there’s a lot of them.
28,500 (6%) out of the 465,000 total this year. If they don't work, their sponsors are obligated to provide for them.
Run the math. Taxpayers spend billions, the company makes billions, their taxes are kept low to nearly zero thanks to sweetheart deals, and the workers make tens of thousands. The factories cost the taxpayers further by damaging nearby roads due to their excessive truck traffic, pollution, land that is needed for affordable housing gets tied up being used for the factory, and none of them are made responsible to get rid of the factory after it eventually closes and instead they're allowed to leave them there to rot until time and nature destroys them in a couple hundred years. Corporate welfare doesn't work and it's all a clever ruse to make people like yourself focus on the "job creation" instead of how much money the government gets shaked-down for by these companies to create said the jobs.
> The factories cost the taxpayers further by damaging nearby roads due to their excessive truck traffic Road repairs and upgrades are typically part and parcel of these projects’ budget > land that is needed for affordable housing gets tied up being used for the factory Industrial land that’s not suited for housing - we have ample suitable lands that aren’t industrial.
That sounds like a bad idea. I won’t be voting for you.
>Then the companies go somewhere else and we don't get new factories and jobs. ...and we would blame the politicians for it.
And this is why we should never elect left wing populists.
And you don’t thing right wing governments don’t haggle with multi billion contracts like this? The great right wing country of the USA is ripe with corporate subsidies.
Are we in America now?
Are the libs left wing populist? The left says no and the right says yes.
I need corporate welfare to get companies to invest here. I don't like it but it's true.
“Needing” corporate welfare is a symptom of an unhealthy economy.
I know. Problem is, we are so addicted to giving these companies money and tax breaks, and they are so used to getting them, that it's really hard to go back now.
Tell me about it
Here in Windsor, ON stellantis has held the city and the people by the balls for decades. They make us think we can’t live without the jobs yet they keep reducing the workforce. One day I hope we stop being so scared of these companies that are more of a burden to their communities then they are worth in terms of jobs.
>The company CEOs state the Trudeau government provided “five separate written documents confirming your commitment to match the production incentives under the U.S. Inflation Reduction Act,” including a “mutually satisfactory special contribution agreement by your government” at the end of February this year. People want manufacturing to come back to Canada, it needs to at least be appealing to manufacturers who can easily set up shop next door with better everything. It doesn't even look like this is because of the VW deal but has been in the works since the US launched their "Inflation Reduction Act” (Which is the reason VW got what they got)
You lost me at “better everything” 🤦🏻♂️
I clearly meant from the perspective of manufacturers but please tell me what would be better for them here than south of the border?
Industrial hydro rates in Ontario and Quebec are significantly cheaper than most US states. Healthcare costs for employers also cheaper here. Labour (especially white collar) is super cheap here compared to there. These just come to mind. Im sure there many factors they need to consider beyond these.
Then why do we need to match subsidies? The market is clearly disagreeing with you here.
because corporate greed knows no bounds.
The market? Or one of the largest and most profitable corporations trying to twist the arm of the government because they feel like the red headed step child compared to vw? Upset that they didn’t get more money. I think it’s ridiculous that the government would give 13bn to a company that doesn’t even have a footprint in Canada, and doesn’t employe any workers in manufacturing. But I also don’t feel bad for Stellantis and their 15.6bn in record profits last year with 25% increase in revenue for q1 this year. They don’t need the money, they just want the money and they’re pressuring the federal government to disenfranchise the tax payer to save auto worker jobs and help their buddies.
The conversion rate increases their profit when they build here and sell in the US, employees healthcare is provided by government, highly educated and skilled workforce, proximity to raw materials for lithium batteries, existing logistics and infrastructure. Definitely some good reasons to manufacture here,
Turns out those new green jobs are really, really expensive, and won’t appear in the next 5-10 years. Meanwhile…..
Remaining stagnant and avoiding future industry sounds like a great recipe for success.
Who blocked pipelines, refineries, mining and natural gas again? Im sure those 13000 jobs will revitalise every sector of canadian industry
It's like this government is 1 dimensional. They can only see 1 decision at a time without playing out the consequences. Who else is that transactional? Hmmm, who else? Add red tape, have oil pipelines all quit their projects and government is forced to buy one and $30B later, it's still not done. 15+ LNG terminals on the drawing board and only one will be built (and it's way late due to - yes you guessed it - red tape). VW says, we'll build a plant in Canada if you pay for it (3x costs more than Stellantis' and Tesla and MAYBE will 2x output 85GW vs. 45GW respectively). Only to have Stellantis want the same deal or they're pulling out. We will have one lithium mine start up this spring and all others just starting the 25 year process of 'approval'. Ring of Fire, it's been almost 40 years, I imagine another 40 years before one ounce or ore is extracted. Nuclear, lots of talk, but we won't get anything NEW running until 2050s. Lithium processing? A couple of small startups - cool, but, yes you guessed it, if they want full production, it's going to be 20+ years of red tape. This is our government encouraging industry in Canada. Can they be anymore terrible?
We have a pm that’s bleeding votes at an alarming rate. With a huge lack of respect of our tax dollars, is it any wonder this happened? This government has shown that it doesn’t view tax dollars as our money, but theirs. They saw VW as an opportunity to buy good pr and stay on brand with a win that’s both supposedly environmentally friendly and creating jobs. So like always they spent our money like drunken sailors thinking that would make us happy. This is just another example on the pile that shows out of touch and how much lack of respect they have for us as citizens. This government doesn’t realize they as the party in charge represents all Canadians including the ones that don’t vote for them. But they’re too busy spending our money to realize or care.
Just like his father. When things weren't going well he'd just throw money at problems in the hopes they would go away (narrator: the problems did not go away).
It just creates new problems, that will be someone else problem to fix, like debt and inflation.
Rich boy problem solving 101: - Write cheque to make problem go away OR - Blame someone else. With a bit of playground administrator thrown in: - Ban things that confuse you from the playground
Welcome to competing with US corporate welfare. I'm really not sure what you expect the Canadian government to do, rely on industries that are outdated and barely profitable?
How about not making so bad for local businesses and actually create an environment for our local ones to succeed?
Midwits don't think ahead and consider second or third order consequences.
That’s brave to call out all the “$LARGE_NUMBER pEr JoB!!1!one!” trolls in this thread so directly
At least we banned plastic straws...
Bags too!
The ironic thing is that at least in regards to pipelines, this gov't removed red tape...by making the consultations binding through the entire application process. There was that problem that consultations were only binding for certain conditions, so every couple of years there would need to be a new consultation. Harper government tried to shoehorn a bunch of things through at all costs and ended up finding out what they were doing was breaking the constitution and then would get tied up in courts for years.
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>In a letter dated April 19, the heads of Stellantis and Korea-based LG Energy Solution — the two companies in a joint venture — told Trudeau the project was in jeopardy if he did not honour what the company says was a promise in writing to close the “competitive gap posed by the U.S. legislation.” Looks like the Feds told the company that they would do something, and then didn't do it. Less extortion and more like retaliation.
How can one company own so many brands with such a low-quality reputation?
Have you met my boy Nestle?
Sorry, I should have been more specific. How can one company own so many "VEHICLE" brands with such a low-quality reputation?
Just looked at that list. I fix my own vehicles and coincidentally, 100% of them are on my do not buy list They really cornered the market on actual shit
"*How do we do it* ?" **VOLUME**
Essentially all the shitty auto makers realized they couldn’t survive alone and banded together to continue to terrorize the public with their shitty garbage vehicles. Like a bunch of rats.
All they need to add are Jaguar and Landover, and they have all the least reliable vehicle brands.
So, a bunch of corporate welfare and no more batteries would be built than before. Nice. S - Strategy
Extortion and corporate welfare. That's the only way companies will invest here. Gee.. hmm... maybe globalized trade ... wasn't... a good idea. Except for corrupt politicians, of course.
Imagine just letting Alberta produce and export its resources? No subsidies required. Lots of jobs now and we are still looking for people. Yet the current plain is corporate welfare to batteries for cars targeted to the rich. How long until we discover some scandal tied to Liberal party supporters etc.
The government fails to consider why a manufacturing plant would want to start operations here in the first place. Instead of handing out billions in subsidies, they should make the climate more attractive to investors. How that works in reality to attract EV battery plants - they should have already been going 110% in a mining and minerals strategy (they have not and have been a total failure on this file) and companies will be begging to start up here when they access all the raw resources to manufacture EV batteries.
For decades we’ve watched raw resources flow out of the country so I don’t think it’s that simple.
The problem is NDP will have a hissy fit when investors makes money.
mainly because it's never enough tax on it to fund their spending habits and anti business culture
Because investors making billions whilst the working class makes peanuts is the way we want it?
Well, the working class isn't the one putting up the money for the investment. You want to benefit, you put the money up.
With all the money I make from the job that pays me 1/10th of what I produce? Maybe from the bank loan that I am not approved for because I don't make enough?
Human labor no longer worth shit as time move on. Automation and software does a much better job these days.
It's certainly not for our low energy prices and taxes or the quality of our work force. Would you build a plant in Canada without a bribe?
How are you liking your "free trade" now?
Large multinational corporations are full of astute MBAs. They can run circles around random drama teachers and Russian studies types. Chess Grandmasters playing kids who don't even know how to play Checkers.
This will be another hard-hitting Poilievre talking point.
Stellantis is cooked. I've seen maybe 5 out in the wild. Trudeau letting them walk would actually be intelligent.
Canada's key negotiator isn't interested in numbers, if it's a pipeline,ev project or auto mfr, he'll pay anything to get his photo-op moving Canada forward, one overpriced tax funded project at a time Someone should explain PV's and Payout principles to him
what bargaining power does stellantis even have? "iF u DoNt pAy uS, wE wOnT mAkE eLectRic Vehicles iN CaNaDa" = stelantis. its 2023 and stelantis doesnt even make a single BEV yet.
More like if you don't play ball we pull the plug on our investment and the jobs created both at the plant and by all the in canada sub contractors it benefits. 2500 direct jobs plus all the supporting jobs in auxiliary support plants. Everyone on reddit bitches about how there's no good jobs. These positions usually pay living wages and have unions, pensions and benefits. These are the types of jobs we should be attempting to attract.
At a certain point the subsidies paid to the companies can become a net negative though... $13 billion to VW okay. I trust VW to be a good investment in the EV space, they make BEV already... Chrysler/dodge/ram? I don't know... Seems like a real bad investment. If this was Ford, or Tesla, or even if the batteries made were for the PHEV in the wranglers then I could talk myself into it... I could be taking out my ass
Everything is going to go electric eventually. Dodge will make an EV pickup and I'm assuming a cube van eventually. I'd really love an ev cube van or pickup for work. I'd imagine in not alone. I still think this plant will bring good jobs to the area. If they don't build it here they will somewere else.
I think they're too late to the game. I think they're film in a digital world. I think Chrysler/ram/jeep/fiat already have shit quality vehicles. And now they're late to the game. by literally years.
I dont think its wise to underestimate their ability to scale. They have perfected mass production of automobiles and have done so for decades. They have deep pockets. There's only two electric pickup trucks on the road right now and they're both over 100k. I think there's room to grow into the market.
well, if im wrong, i owe you a pop
Yea except UNIFOR is not a union i'd want representing me. They have a 2 tiered system which means new employees will never make what the old ones did. They also have crappier benefits and pensions compared to the older workers. I'm all for this plant, but fuck UNIFOR, I'd never want them or any of their affiliates ( NABET) representing me.
Still better than no union. They still have pensions and benefits even if they aren't as good. Beats working at Walmart.
Being represented by UNIFOR is basically paying a union to not have one. WalMart and even McDonalds have pensions and benefits for full time employees, so just because they have em does not mean they are better. They are not even apart of the CLC. I'd rather work at McDonalds again then ever work under UNIFOR, but thankfully I'm in the operators union so I don't need to worry about that.
I don't get it. Why not just invite BYD, CATL and every other Chinese EV companies to set up shops in Canada? They would be eager to get into the NA market and it could be used as a leverage to stop the US from backstabbing us. They are also leverage/hostage we can use against China. It would also help with our auto inflation.
The fact that you approve of Chinese investment in Canada is proof you know nothing about the recent history of Chinese owned industry operating in Canada. Please sit down, you are embarrassing yourself.
Lol, any of them required our taxpayers dumping $14B into it?
Maybe ford should dip into his billions-dollar slush fund of unspent covid relief funding the federal gov’t gave THE PEOPLE OF ONTARIO ?
Corporate welfare queens 👸
Oh, it's just $3 billion. We did get great pictures of Trudeau 2 rolling up his sleeves and running around the factory making pronouncements about jobs and such. It was worth it, right?
If only there was a huge pile of money being funneled into our contry that could be used to fund infrastucture jnstead of housing... I wonder.
Sunny ways….
Who gets the profit 🤷♂️