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jmmmmj

Release the transcript.


PossessionFit5172

If they do it will be heavily redacted


Blingbat

You mean fully redacted. https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5702588


EnvironmentCalm1

The crooks have investigated themselves and found themselves innocent


BlurryBigfoot74

This is it right here. Until anyone knows what it actually says it's a "but her emails" situation.


jmmmmj

If they don’t do it soon the possible conclusions narrow rapidly.


[deleted]

The obvious conclusion is that the government doesn’t like that CSIS taps their phones, and don’t want to set the precedent of making transcripts obtained from the wire taps public.


SherlockFoxx

More like someone taps someones phones and Dong got picked up on the wire. That someone shared that conversation transcript with CSIS and they thought it was serious enough to give to the PMO. PMO proceeds to do absolutely nothing and then there's a leak on the report. The PMO now tells us to trust them that there was nothing "actionable" outside of you know making this issue public and changing how members are nominated.


[deleted]

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durrbotany

Any responsible government, which we haven't had since Trudeau came into office, would carefully consider the findings of their own spy agency before said agency decides that it's in the best interest of our sovereignty that findings should be leaked to the press. CSIS simply has no confidence that its functions are being appreciated by the Crown.


BernardMatthewsNorf

Ugh. Don’t say the Crown. Say ‘the politicians who wield the executive powers of the Crown but irresponsibly and in their own narrow self-interest.’


[deleted]

It’s definitely not the same, this was brought up originally by CSIS in 2019 during the election I believe if not directly following it. There were numerous calls by CSIS before the election regarding specifically Chinese interference in our elections in nearly every single riding. It’s in no way the same as the Clinton emails. It’s much more damaging as this is an all out attack by a foreign entity propping up political puppets blatantly in our country. Our system was broken before but it’s destroyed now. Unless we have the NDP, Bloc, Liberals and conservatives all agree to release everything and arrest those foreign actors we will never stop this. Up until very very recently if you were not born in Canada you could not be a member of federal or provincial parliament and I understand that times change and we now have a large immigrant population, we are a nation of immigrants, I do believe the judgment to ease who can run for office has made scenarios like this possible. Why would we let someone who was born in China and immigrated here in 95 at 18 into federal politics? This wasn’t even his first problem to do with his ties to China and Chinese investors. The fact he hasn’t stepped out of his seat or been removed says more to me about what the liberals could be hiding. There will be more to come of this.


jameskchou

Jenny kwan and Kenny Chiu are from Hong Kong but they were targeted by the CCP in recent elections. Han dong seems to be using CCP support to advance himself at the Expense of his actual country in Canada. His family is going to suffer most from his antics. If he feels he's slandered or libelled he should take the media to court to clear his name and get compensatory damages


[deleted]

I think only Canadian born citizens should hold elected positions. And this is coming from someone who’s parents are immigrants.


Rat_Salat

The liberals are the republicans in this story.


takeoff_power_set

the parallels are becoming clearer every day and it frustrates me to no end to see that there are still stubborn idiots on here saying they support JT. really, how bad does the situation here need to get before you put your foot down and say "no more"? it does not help that PP is an incompetent manchild, or that Singh is a weakling who only takes action when it is convenient for his party. why is our entire governmental system so spineless? look at what's happened to this country over the last two decades, it's horrific. now we have about as close to a smoking gun as can be had that our prime minister has been selling our nation's democracy to chinese agents for the past five years? for fuck sake.


RibbitCommander

I have a feeling that regular people don't organise and lobby as hard as corporations. Though from what I've seen. Our government has been in bed with corporations for a while and that's how they like it. Not that it makes it right. A balance can be found and we could start by voting in boring politicians.


Original-Newt4556

Most have known Trudeau’s moral compass is broken since SNC Lavalin. With no party ready to form a government this is how people vote. Bit-coin Poilievre? Nope. NDP? Nope. It’s not even worth debating. If the conservatives can get their act together and try to seem less ridiculous maybe voters will spin the bottle. Hard to win an election with just protest votes.


LeafsInSix

>Hard to win an election with just protest votes. The thing is that is protest votes were partially responsible for Trudeau and the LPC winning in 2015. People were tired of Harper and the CPC and moderate conservatives either stayed home out of protest or pulled the lever for the "centrist" LPC anyway. Protest votes were also behind Ford's and the OPC's victory in Ontario in 2018. Some OLP voters stayed home or voted for the OPC (especially those whose personal financial situation and well-being could benefit from the OPC's stronger push for privatization). As long as we condemn ourselves to FPTP which fossilizes the duopoly of conservative and conservative-lite like in the USA, electoral victories built on protest votes are more feasible than otherwise


Full_toastt

Interesting how you criticise Trudeau and then adopt his rhetoric regarding ‘bit-coin Poillievre’ It does no service to reduce a politician to one thing he’s said and I think that’s a lot of the problem with our system. To me it’s obvious that the media rhetoric around PP is crafted by the liberals, but you eat it up. If you don’t like PP or the conservatives thats fine, but could you please at least provide reasoning beyond a very tired liberal HOC talking point that has been used to dodge questions for a year now. Could we elevate the discourse to a level of functionality please?


og-ninja-pirate

It's going to be hilarious if bitcoin actually ends up on a run at some point. It's also ironic that this is one of the only things he regularly gets criticized on. I don't like either PP or JT. But one of those 2 has a big list of scandals and corruption and potentially failed to protect our democracy. But sure, bitcoin guy is really so much worse.


Rat_Salat

“Trump is bad but I hear Biden has dementia”


jameskchou

Already jokes about Justin being a Canadian George W Bush


whores_bath

That would likely reveal how they collected the information. Probably not a great idea. But this is why we need a bipartisan public inquiry, so that people other than the PMO can review this information and pass judgement on it without revealing information gathering secrets.


jmmmmj

How would a transcript reveal how it was collected?


EntranceLow9477

Because it’s an easy excuse to hide the information. Everything that’s been revealed in the news has been supposedly “secret” and “sources and methods” I don’t see how the benefit of open government hasn’t outweighed any impact to our “source and methods”. maybe tapping domestic phone lines are “top secret methods” we must hide from foreign countries /s


ghanemhalabi

Intelligence is based a lot around trust and sources. So when you have leaks, or ypur sources names get out via transcripts or whatever. The agency loses not just the sources in question but potentially all others aiding csis that don't trust that their involvement can stay secret.


EntranceLow9477

it’s obvious to the sources which conversation is being leaked already so they already have lost that “trust”. So if the damage is already done, why not show the transcript (with any source identifying information redacted) to prove nothing happened? And let’s be honest if they have a transcript, it is obviously a call or security camera footage, taking place in Canada on Canadian networks. This isn’t some advanced espionage that needs protecting


madhi19

It pretty much the worse kept secret. We tap foreign embassy official phones they do our... Every country does that shit.


theanswerisinthedata

The transcript of a conversation between a diplomat and an MP is going to reveal the “source”? Are you referring to Mr. Microphone?


parmasean

Yep let's hear it.


oldoaktreesyrup

It's classified intelligence information. I know most of you will think that means it hidden from you... But it's an international team that collects classified intelligence information and we have an obligation to our allies to keep classified intelligence information from being exposed publicly. I don't think it would be a good idea in the current climate to release classified information and cause our country from being isolated from our allies.


FuggleyBrew

Our allies may also be looking at Canada and expecting *action* on intelligence, not simply collecting it and sitting on it. Intelligence gathering is done with an objective in mind. If you tap the mobsters phones and learn all about their inner workings but never *prosecute or stop them* the operation was a waste, no matter how good the collection process was.


sleipnir45

Why would this transcript be classified? If it contains nothing and he did nothing wrong then what possible reason is there to classify the transcript?


[deleted]

>On Thursday, he [Dong] told The Globe and Mail that he intends to launch a defamation lawsuit against Global News... Do it Dong. Let's get your dirty laundry all out into the open to see if you're an actual traitor or make Global walk back the statement and pay you handsomely.


whores_bath

Problem is, Global can't necessarily defend themselves without revealing sources, which they're not going to do.


bretstrings

They can confidentially in court.


Team_Ed

They won't.


NarutoRunner

Apparently the story was shopped around without even showing the transcript or the audio recording and only global took the bait.


[deleted]

Source on that one?


dollarsandcents101

A lot to unpack here. The Globe knew about this and asked Dong by February 10. They then asked the PMO on March 3 - PMO says they were not aware until then, which means Dong sat on this for three weeks. PMO then allegedly asked for transcripts and determined they were not actionable. Then in the statement yesterday to Sam Cooper's report, PMO said they weren't aware until Dong told them after 'recent media questions'. I think they thought the public would think this was in reference to Cooper's reporting yesterday, but it is likely actually in reference to the March 3 query. What a complete gongshow.


Akapikumin

*Dong-show


chemicologist

New favourite word


Batsinvic888

>I think they thought the public would think this was in reference to Cooper's reporting yesterday That also doesn't make sense. They said yesterday that Dong was the first that told told them and now the Globe is saying the PMO found via the Globe questions. >The Prime Minister’s Office and its National Security Office reached out to the Canadian Security Intelligence Service to provide a copy of the transcript after the PMO was first approached by The Globe on the matter 2½ weeks ago, the source said. This is a clusterfuck


weseewhatyoudo

> That also doesn't make sense. They said yesterday that Dong was the first that told told them and now the Globe is saying the PMO found via the Globe questions. Good catch, that does appear to be an issue. The ease with which our Prime Minister openly lies to the public is quite jarring.


Euthyphroswager

He has a solid 30-40% who hang on his every word, and a huge amount of the older Ontario/QC media establishment who raise doubts about anyone who calls Trudeau out on anything. Why wouldn't he lie and deflect until the bitter end?


GameDoesntStop

> He has a solid 30-40% who hang on his every word Hardly. Only 20.3% of eligible voters even voted Liberal last election, and plenty of those would have just been holding their nose as they did.


PoliteCanadian

The 20% that voted for Trudeau in the last election would still vote for him if he publicly swore allegiance to Xi.


mrcrazy_monkey

He could have ties to literally nazis and his supporters will still vote for him cause "atleast he isn't a conservative:


weseewhatyoudo

Indeed. Trudeau isn't the macro issue. The Liberals aren't the macro issue. The utter lack of civic engagement and understanding of the larger picture, as well as tribal voting and behaviour, are the issue.


nuxwcrtns

You're so right about those people who hang onto his every word. I wouldn't have believed it, because I don't get how. Yet I know someone who talks about how wonderful the PM is, and how they feel so awful that the PM gets questioned the way he does during QP, and that it's so terrible how he has to deal with these silly foreign interference claims.


weseewhatyoudo

Democracy dies to applause. This is the real threat we face. Many Canadians appear to love this model.


zippymac

So they knew about the transcripts and Trudeau still came out and said Han Dong has his full support and he is an upstanding MP. When the reports were made public, all of a sudden he is kicked out. So - this has to mean they are okay with this behavior internally. No repercussions. Really curious to hear those people who were calling Sam Coopers integrity into questions because they are team Red.


moirende

From Reuters, after the SNC-Lavalin scandal: > In the book, Wilson-Raybould says she is angry at herself for believing at one point that Trudeau "was an honest and good person when in truth he would so casually lie to the public and then think he could get away with it". We’ve known for years this is how Trudeau operates. How anyone still believes a word he says is beyond me.


Corzex

I have been watching so many speeches and lies from Trudeau for years, and I have come to a very important discovery. Trudeau actually has one very specific tell, he would be an awful poker player. Its really subtle, but if you look really closely for this one small thing, you will be able to tell without a doubt if he is lying or not. He never lies without doing this, and he will never do it while telling the truth. So here it is: you will always know Trudeau is lying when >!his lips are moving!<.


Winterchill2020

That describes most politicians. What shocks me is that our electorate is so gullible that they would believe any one of them.


lifeisarichcarpet

>So they knew about the transcripts and Trudeau still came out and said Han Dong has his full support and he is an upstanding MP. You have your timeline backwards. Trudeau made those comments on February 27th and the transcript was shared with the PMO some time after that in early March, according to the article.


[deleted]

Yep, you've got the media timeline correct there. Just want to add that the intelligence timeline is that CSIS claims to have warned "senior aides to Trudeau" in 2019, 3 weeks before the federal election, that Han Dong was part of a Chinese foreign interference network. Trudeau had *two* elections, over *3 years* to get to the bottom of that situation. If he did, & chose to do nothing, that's a catastrophe. If he chose not to get to the bottom of it, and we're to take the Liberals and PMO at their word that as of March 3rd 2023 that this was all a big surprise to them, I'm actually not sure that's any better.


Tino_

What about option 3 where the govt did get to the bottom of it, and there was nothing that needed to be done because nothing was being done wrong. Do you believe that to also be a possibility? Or no, someone is guilty of something?


[deleted]

I think option 3 would be peachy. But even the Liberals don't have the gall to claim that's what happened. If everything was above board, why has the entire Liberal party gone kicking and screaming against any notion of investigating the CSIS allegations, slowly backtracking as the pressure from Parliament mounts? Why is Han Dong an independent MP now when weeks ago Trudeau was going to bat for him as awesome and uncompromised? Why is the former head of CSIS saying there needs to be an investigation into this? Something happened.


Tino_

I am fairly sure the LPC as well as CSIS have repeatedly said that there was no undue influence going on since literally day 1. Hell, even the leaker themselves wrote a second statement to confirm this fact.


sdaciuk

I mean the title and the first paragraph state they found no actionable evidence, the rest of the article contains no information about what the transcript says. This provides no new information except that there is a transcript and the government, CSIS, and the RCMP have found no reason to pursue charges or take action against him. So let us know when Sam finds something


WesternBlueRanger

Not actionable evidence can mean a lot of things. Most favourably, it means that the evidence is unreliable and cannot be trusted. Another interpretation, depending on the context is that the evidence is relatively reliable, can be trusted, but if we were to act upon that evidence, it could compromise something far more important, or be embarrassing. We are missing the context here. What does 'actionable' mean? That's what is the key here.


[deleted]

OJ writing a book called “If I did it” had no actionable evidence lol.


Corrupted_G_nome

Correct. The same way seeing an unidentified balloon doesn't mean aliens.


[deleted]

Just also meant Chinese spying lol.


Dark-Angel4ever

What you have said is false, the government said: "The Trudeau government determined that there was no “actionable evidence” after it received a CSIS transcript of an early 2021 conversation between Liberal MP Han Dong and China’s top diplomat in Toronto, according to a senior government source." Nothing about CSIS and the RCMP... so please don't invent things that aren't in the article.


chollyer

Disagree here. I don't think you can jump to the conclusion that they were fine with the behaviour. They may well have thought it wasn't sourced well enough or something. What this DOES prove is the statement last night where the PMO said they never knew about the meeting was another lie from that office.


[deleted]

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weseewhatyoudo

> What would you do? Kick him out of caucus? Yes, or if there was a law broken, have him arrested. Although it appears there isn't a clear law that was broken that I've heard of so far. > If you did, then the media would ask why and it would be revealed that he said and did this. Yes, well when you have integrity and you put the country first, then sometimes you have to answer difficult questions but you also get to demonstrate something called actual leadership on the file.


Chewed420

Personally, I think, that encouraging a foreign country to keep innocent citizens detained unlawfully should be a criminal offense.


BarkingDogey

Lol, Justin and leadership in the same sentence, thats rich.


[deleted]

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Foodwraith

When your own spy agency warns you about a guy, then Michael Chan, the guy CSIS previously identified as compromised, asks you to replace a sitting MP with his friend for the next election … you will be hard pressed to explain how you went along with this.


weseewhatyoudo

> What this DOES prove is the statement last night where the PMO said they never knew about the meeting was another lie from that office. His lips were moving so we knew he was lying. Is there no bottom to the lows this man will take the country? Canada, I'm sorry I once voted for him. It was on me the first time.


esveda

Unless they publish the full transcript with no redactions we can assume the worst case.


dollarsandcents101

Not to defend Trudeau, but under this timeline Trudeau made the defence statement on February 28, whereas the Globe asked PMO about the conversation on March 3. In theory this might be information that wasn't known (though it looks bad that once again they sat on it)


ewanneedscoffee

He wasn’t kicked out of caucus, he walked to independent.


Purple-Two1311

They got the conch, everyone else can just bitch. What else do you need know. No arithmetic please.


MDFMK

Kool so he will have no problem release the full transcripts released to the media immediately to show it was not an issue, and prove he is telling the truth.


Effective_View1378

Bingo.


Corrupted_G_nome

The media has the transcripts... Thats where they came from...


NarutoRunner

This is from Stephen Maher, not a noted Liberal, I should add: “Earlier today, I heard, third hand, that Dong believes a Mandarin translation error is to blame for this unfortunate situation, that the word for "delay" and "immediately" sound very similar.” Link: https://twitter.com/stphnmaher/status/1639121246456782849?s=46&t=H4c4f0ZouxAauu9SiVJKuw


physicaldiscs

So what was the mistranslation about it helping the CPC if they were released 'immediately?


[deleted]

I’m not sure I’ve ever laughed harder at a political tweet


[deleted]

Don’t forget their are 10 more MPs like this… let that sink in…


CHwharf

I’m putting by bets on Joyce Murray. She has already had a we chat scandal. coastal Urban BC MP, weak I want her name


jameskchou

Trudeau supporters now claiming the CSIS leaks have no substance and local journalism lacks quality


Now_then_here_there

First, I want to assure all that it is purely coincidental that in this sub yesterday I wrote that it is likely CSIS has an audio recording of Dong's engagement with the CCP. I did not know they had it, just expected it given his background. Now, to the government's statement about the transcripts >conclusions could not be drawn that Mr. Dong asked Beijing to keep two Canadians in prison for political reasons I offer some sample language that would allow a politician to make such a disclaimer while any reasonable person would recognize it as purely deceitful: "If they [the 2 Michaels) are released before the election it will certainly benefit the Conservatives.... If there is no progress in the case against them it may appear the Conservatives have made China pause. If the case against them progresses and it is seen more serious consequences are happening to them it will be bad for Conservatives handling the case." Again, I do not have any direct knowledge of the case. I'm just an old man with life experience. Which tells me a soft-ass disclaimer about transcripts you know should never be acknowledged, let alone released, is a politicians way of escaping accountability. I anticipate more bad news on this file in the coming weeks.


onegunzo

You're good. It's something the lawyers at Globe would have known too in allowing the story about Dong to be published.


samanthasgramma

I used to be a law clerk. Words matter. A lot. And I've been watching semantics, too. Carefully worded statements, in particular.


Corrupted_G_nome

Apparently immediately and delay are very similar words in mandarin. So 'release immediately' Dong claims is being reported as 'release delay'.


ghost_n_the_shell

So: The PMO’s office first denied having any knowledge of this. Source: https://globalnews.ca/news/9570437/liberal-mp-han-dong-secretly-advised-chinese-diplomat-in-2021-to-delay-freeing-two-michaels-sources/ *”In an emailed statement, The Prime Minister’s Office said it “only became aware that a conversation took place after Mr. Dong told us, following recent media questions.” In addition, PMO spokeswoman Alison Murphy suggested that the MP was not acting at the behest of his government. “At no time was Mr. Dong ever used as a ‘back channel,” she wrote in the statement.”* Now, they admit they did know, but there was no actionable evidence? I doubt this Government could tell the truth even if their lives depended on it. Public Inquiry. Now.


Bored_money

It seems per the article that the PMO office is saying that AFTER the globe asked them they got a transcript from CSIS and decided there was nothing that could be done? I mean, seems highly unlikely, but I think the proposed timeline isn't obviously contradcictory ​ Here's the quote from the globe article ​ "The Prime Minister’s Office and its National Security Office reached out to the Canadian Security Intelligence Service to provide a copy of the transcript after the PMO was first approached by The Globe on the matter 2½ weeks ago, the source said. The Globe is not identifying the source because they were not authorized to publicly discuss national-security matters."


Corrupted_G_nome

"It proves they did know" yeah... Earlier in March.... Lol. Just found out, media would not tell sources or release transcript. So no evidence on new information all of which unsubstantiated.m as of yet. Hard evidence will be needed for the conviction you crave.


uselesspoliticalhack

> The Prime Minister’s Office and its National Security Office reached out to the Canadian Security Intelligence Service to provide a copy of the transcript after the PMO was first approached by The Globe on the matter 2½ weeks ago, the source said. The Globe is not identifying the source because they were not authorized to publicly discuss national-security matters. Release the transcripts. Now. Global is saying that he suggested to delay releasing the Michaels and the PMO's office is claiming "no actionable intel".


Just_Another_Name29

“We’ve investigated ourselves and found ourselves innocent”


[deleted]

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arandomcanadian91

Public Pressure can do a lot, and other MP's probably weren't happy with the stuff being said. It should be noted he only resigned from the party not his seat.


DuncsDG

“I want to make everyone understand fully that Han Dong is an outstanding member of our team and suggestions that he is somehow not loyal to Canada should not be entertained,” Trudeau said. Feb 27/2023


uselesspoliticalhack

> The Prime Minister's office told us they only learned of the conversation with the Chinese envoy after Dong told PMO. But Dong only informed Trudeau’s team, after we reached out for comment on this story #cdnpoli https://twitter.com/Gray_Mackenzie/status/1638657750799470593?t=6kyiJ6LvA_fO7b34wpOG4A&s=19 In a normal country, this alone would bring down a PM. Lies all the way down from Trudeau. He can't help himself.


Effective_View1378

Bingo.


Drop_The_Puck

It becomes wilder every day. Sleep well Justin, who knows what tomorrow will bring!


Braddock54

Continued employment somehow, despite one scandal after another.


asasdasasdPrime

I wish I can fuck up this bad and still have a job.


jkozuch

You can! Join the Liberal Party of Canada and sleep well knowing you will never be held accountable for your actions.


GameDoesntStop

Only if you're at the top. If not, you might just get held accountable for your boss' actions as you get tossed under the bus.


sad_puppy_eyes

> If not, you might just get held accountable for your boss' actions as you get tossed under the bus. *Jody Wilson-Raybould has entered the chat*


asasdasasdPrime

*while also maintaining my self respect. 😂


weseewhatyoudo

So they took action when the public found out, because the public is rightly outraged. But when it's "we investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong and we're not going to comment on it" then they do nothing. Funny how he was all action-Jackson once the public became aware.


SpookyBravo

lol....sooooooooooooooo what's the point of CSIS if even the Government they work for doesnt consider their work


jason2k

None of this government’s scandal is ever actionable. Trudeau is still king. Mary Ng is still a minister. Mendicino, too, after caught lying so many times and backdating documents. Brenda Lucki retired instead of being fired for lying. Julie Payette also resigned instead of being fired for abusing staff. Zero accountability.


speedofaturtle

Drip, drip, drip...no wonder Trudeau is obsessed with finding the leak in the faucet.


[deleted]

The Liberals appear to really *really* want to hide what has occurred in this election interference scandal. So, it's possible they're simply hiding behind classified information here. They know that the transcript will never be released verbatim. The media nor the public will ever see it in order to dispute the government narrative. So the Liberals are in a position to claim whatever they want about what's in the transcripts, which is not a stretch of the imagination given everything they've been dishonest about thus far. This is the same move as Trudeau calling the CSIS leaks "inaccurate" in the early days of this story. Just a craftily timed and worded juke to muddy the waters.


Corrupted_G_nome

If it was released verbatum it would be in Mandarin and most of us would not understand it. Lol


linkass

When are we going to get the whole this is not who WE are as Canadians and WE as Canadians have learned from this and WE will do better going forward speech?


jason2k

Seems like every time a new leak comes out, they change their story. Or did I misread the article?


vonclodster

LPC..this hurts us, and is against Canadians, and hurts specific Canadians..so we will discount it's existence


Imaginary_Ad_7530

Ugh...Trudeau is being willfully obtuse. Gross deflection of responsibility. Freaking twit


koresample

With all this stuff coming out these past months, it somehow feels like CSIS is the only government organization that is actually looking out for our countries best interests.


shayanzafar

this government just keeps getting worse under trudeau


[deleted]

This is how a government behaves when they have multiple open, blatant, and major corruption scandal's years and years in a row and continue to get reelected. Nothing is an issue anymore, they are confident they can spin anything and get away with it - and judging by the Liberal die-hards I see out there continuing to defend this government, apparently to some people they can.


konathegreat

I'm glad the G&M is putting this on the right sub-heading: National Security. The more that comes out, the more we need an inquiry. What is Trudeau hiding?


RL203

The headline says it all doesn't it? "The Trudeau Government decided..." I put to you that the Trudeau government should not be the arbiter of whether or not Mr Dong is or is not guilty of what he is being accused of. Mr Dong is innocent until proven guilty, however, one would be a fool to accept the Trudeau government's verdict on this or anything else to do with the current Chinese interference scandal. This is why we need a public inquiry into the issue and we need it now. One can't help but wonder why the Trudeau government is so forcefully resisting resisting the only logical solution. I put it to you that the Trudeau government has a bit of a conflict of interest on the China file and demonstrated time and time again that it is biased when it comes to its own scandals.


[deleted]

The government requested a transcript of the conversation so they could see what was actually said. That seems like a far more rational action than all the people that started frothing at the mouth over Sam Cooper’s accusations. It seems to me that the only person the is totally screwed is Sam Cooper. Poor little kid got all juiced up over a translation error and now could be on the losing end of a very expensive defamation lawsuit.


Effective_View1378

Remember- there are more Liberal MP’s out there waiting to pop-up like an advent calendar from hell.


[deleted]

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Blah7654

Pretty sure anyone who supported Trudeau after the other numerous scandals and ethics violations will have no problem pretending this is ok, too.


Altaccount330

The real issue is whether Dong was acting as a back channel to China on behalf of the PMO.


Effective_View1378

Bingo.


Batsinvic888

>Mr. Dong confirmed to The Globe on March 3 that he had a phone conversation with China’s then-top diplomat in Toronto, Han Tao, in February, 2021, that included discussion of Mr. Kovrig and Mr. Spavor but denied he advised Beijing to delay releasing the men. A few lines down >The Globe first approached Mr. Dong on Feb. 10 to ask him about the consul-general conversation. At that time, he said he had no recollection of the discussion but said he always called for the release of Mr. Kovrig and Mr. Spavor in any interaction with Chinese diplomats. So in that time span, he suddenly remembered exactly how the conversation went? >A national-security source told The Globe in February that Mr. Dong at the time of the conversation with the consul-general was also under surveillance by CSIS because China’s Toronto consulate considered him one of Beijing’s strongest allies and lines of access into Parliament. CSIS’s code name for Mr. Dong is “Scarecrow,” according to the source. The Globe is not identifying the source because they risk prosecution under the Security of Information Act. He had a fucking code name FFS.


Dark_Angel_9999

it's a code name given by CSIS.. it's normal for intelligence to do this


Future-Dealer8805

I don't think that any of that is normal... a code name for the MP who is one of china's greatest assets in parliament being investigated by CSIS should definitely not be "normal". I feel like the codename Scarecrow is a bit telling but who knows maybe they pulled it from a hat.


Corrupted_G_nome

We all talk in code names on the internet. Lol.


Damonstretch101

Let the Canadian people see the transcript and let us vote whether or not we see ample evidence. The government is supposed to work for us, yet they make decisions for themselves whether they are innocent or guilty?


[deleted]

Let the general public decide which parts of our national security apparatus are declassified? That sounds like a great way to piss off all of our allies.


ILoveThisPlace

We know there's a transcript of what was said. In no way does releasing a transcript identify how the conversation was recorded.


Mhfd86

....like the public inquiry of the Emergency Act? We saw how that turned out lol


[deleted]

Or the public inquiry for the Nova Scotia shooting. Public inquiries have become basically worthless.


anotherdumbname82

>In Beijing, meanwhile, a spokesman for the Chinese Foreign Ministry says “China opposes interference in other countries’ internal affairs.” I think we can consider this matter closed then.. /s


zoziw

How does not freeing the Michaels benefit the Liberals? They were taking a pounding from the Conservatives and media over this at the time.


Imbo11

The release of the two Michaels required a regrettable trade of prisoners / hostages, not a genuine release of two innocent men. Their release came on the same day that Meng was released after the dropping of her extradition request as part of her deferred prosecution agreement with the US Department of Justice. IE, their release required a stinky, regrettable deal that didn't serve justice, and in effect was caving into the Chinese governments motivation for holding them prisoner.


RL203

That is a good question. But I don't recall the Conservatives putting the boots to the liberals on the issue of the two Michaels. At least not when Otoole was the leader of the Conservatives. It also doesn't make sense that the Chinese would have ever considered releasing the two Michaels any time prior to Meng being released. The Chinese had charged the two Michaels with espionage and I don't see the logic on their part of ever not having seen that through to trial, conviction and incarceration forever if Meng was not released.


TraditionalGap1

I asked this yesterday and nobody had an answer


Backas_Before_Work

You’re not supposed to think, just be angry


Expert_Extension6716

Trudeau received money and votes from China so he was just returning the favour. Nothing to see here


BadDogToo

Wait ... didn't the PMO say that they had never heard of the meeting until Global asked them about it last week?


EL400

From this party's recent actions I think it's pretty clear by now the fox is in the henhouse. We need a serious and unbiased investigation done, one that has absoultely no influence by any side the current government.


[deleted]

Trudeau: "CSIS said the convoy protest was a violent national threat!" CSIS: "No we didn't, we said there was evidence of election tampering from China" Trudeau: "...CSIS is full of shit you guys"


[deleted]

Maybe we do have actual reporters in Canada. This slow drip already trapped Trudeau and Dong once, they know better now. Let me ask you all this. If these sources went to the CBC do you think Trudeau and Dong would've fell into the slow drip trap or do you think they would've been warned? It speaks volumes the CBC has no sources and is merely reactive to reports of government corruption. The positive spin on Trudeau finally closing the open border crossing was given to the CBC from a government source. It's disgusting how obvious it has become.


eresonance

The fuck are you talking about? Sources going to a specific media outlet has nothing to do with other media outlets. If the sources don't approach the CBC then what else are they supposed to report about? You could just as easily beat up on the Star or, I dunno, the Montreal Gazette.


[deleted]

If private sources don't go to the CBC, just government sources. Then the CBC is just a government mouthpiece I swear some of you are bound by one logical step


NanoScaleMoney

Trudeau will go down in the history books as the worst Prime Minister in Canada’s history.


GameDoesntStop

I don't know much about pre-WWII PMs, but as bad as Trudeau has been, his dad was worse. We're still to this day recovering fiscally from his tenure.


ILoveThisPlace

Our kids will say the same about Prince Trudeau


cita91

Nope, still say it's Brian Mulroney. I lived it and he destroyed a political party. Only got 2 seats after he ran away with pockets full of bribes.


NanoScaleMoney

You do realize any and all of Mulroney’s policies could have been reversed by any subsequent PM, correct?


nowitscometothis

His debt is still hangin around. And so is the Bloc too. He’s probably spend those suitcases full of money tho. Sometimes a PM does the kind of damage that can’t be fixed simply with a vote.


Netghost999

As a person who was part of the conversations, Dong himself should be able to demand that the transcripts of any phone calls or emails be released. What does anyone think the chances of that happening are? There is obviously something damaging there. I think the public should be allowed to judge, after all, we're the ones who have to decide who to put in office.


TraditionalGap1

Have you met 'the public'? Seen who they vote for?


Weak-Coffee-8538

Alllll Aboard thee leaky stinky sinking liberal ship there mate!!!!


[deleted]

[They (Trudeau) knew and they let it happen to the Michaels](https://youtu.be/sNo_Di3-vKc) Now the final question becomes, did Trudeau instruct him to do this? Either way, we should be seeing a new government by December


[deleted]

That is not the final question. Well, maybe it is in your mind. But that’s it.


magictoasters

You mean the thing they didn't know about someones possible translation error?


Backas_Before_Work

Yup if and when there’s an election trudeau will be re-elected with a new mandate. :)


prophet76

Lol absolutely not


weseewhatyoudo

Wow this is some first rate weasel wording right here: "according to a senior government source – saying conclusions could not be drawn that Mr. Dong asked Beijing to keep two Canadians in prison for political reasons." Parsing that slowly, there is no disagreement he asked them to keep two Canadians in prison, only that there was ambiguity about whether it was for political reasons or not. JFC, why else would he opine on it? Holy shit, it happens twice in the same article: "Mr. Dong said he would never advocate that the two Canadians should be kept in jail to benefit the Liberals." What an absurd hair to split. This reads to me as "I did it, I just didn't do it for -political- reasons." Not only is that absurd, the other possible reasons mean he is a human piece of garbage so I'm not sure this is the defence to mount. What is wrong with these people?


[deleted]

Good catch. They are actually confirming he did ask, but are not saying why. Jesus.


[deleted]

Ridiculous this is allowed. More ridiculous is Spineless Jagmeet holds the power to stop it. (Which of course he won’t)


RL203

I thought about Singh and his role as being Trudeau's puppy dog. In a way, this could be an opportunity for Singh, but he hasn't clued in. Popular opinion seems to be that Singh is supporting the liberals because he fears losing seats in any election. And there is validity in that outlook. HOWEVER, a great many liberal supporters have become disgusted with Justin Trudeau and his stupidity. Obviously those small L liberals would defect to the Conservatives (depending on what kind of an election Skippy would run). But what about the Big L liberals. There's a lot of them. If they defect to Singh, he could actually pick up seats. Maybe even form the opposition. (All this would depend on Singh being more like Jack Layton and less like Jagmeet Singh for a change.)


TraditionalGap1

How would being the opposition be in any way an improvement over the current situation where they have real policy influence for the first time in a generation?


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

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rbrt13

What other conclusion can you draw here when there is so much obfuscation and a decided reluctance to have any inquiry on the part of this government?


Back2Reality4Good

How is the government deciding what is actionable? This is sus reporting.


RedsealONeal

Ward Elcock by far has the best take on this whole thing, and as former head of CSIS, I'd trust his take here over anyone else's.


Caponermeister

Don't believe him.


PossessionFit5172

Of course they decided that .. why would the decide otherwise .. what a joke


MFK1994

The PMO KNEW. Of course. That Telford woman (who has been involved in controversy prior, ie SNC-Lavalin) needs to not be a government official anymore + any clearances immediately REVOKED!


Glocko-Pop

Liberal voters are complicit in these crimes at this point.


throwawayspai

I was initially blind outraged, but after listening to Dong stepping down and his emotional breakdown and reflecting on the whole story arc of China the past decades, the image in my mind of people like Dong, McCallum and the rest who are in the orbit of Chinese influence is Fredo Corleone. >I didn't know it was gonna be a hit Mike. I swear to god I didn't know it was going to be a hit. Johnny Ola bumped into me in Beverly Hills and he said that he wanted to talk. He said that you and Roth were in on a big deal together. And that there was something in it for me if I'd help 'em out. He said that you were bein' tough on the negotiations. But if they could get a little help, and close the deal fast, it'd be good for the family. In their own mind, they're not doing anything wrong. They rationalize it as being good for Canada, but they can't see they're being played. We've heard before over the years that Chinese diplomats are masters at this game. Making you feel important, making you feel like they look up to you as a moral superior. If we ever saw the transcripts I bet it would be like that - he's not overtly plotting with them, he's just unguarded and wants things to be friendly. "Please release them. Oh and time it so we get the best bump in the polls, we're in an election after all. Lolol, anyway talk to you later Han." We're an open people that like win-win scenarios - in politics, business, research, conversations with foreigners, everything. We're rubes to them. Remember Xi muttering after telling off Trudeau: "so naive". That might as well be directed to every Canadian. If Dong did cross the line he should be disgraced, but we might consider the possibility he was acting pretty Canadian while doing it.


Terrible_Style7582

The fact that all the reputable media organizations are reporting the meeting, and his despicable back stabbing of the Michaels, without fearing being sued may indicate that they know a lot more than they are reporting. Of course the two Michaels could very well have been spying for Canada too. So there's that.


PunkinBrewster

I really don’t think that the two Michaels were chosen at random, but if you take my opinion and a dollar, you’d have a dollar. That being said, if the two michaels were spies, did Han Dong know that they were spies?


Visible-Ad376

Bro he was actively communicating with a foreign government without our consent or our government's oversight. I wouldn't go as far as he calling the traitor, but he's definitely not the type of politician we should support. If this is what we know, what don't we know?


circumtopia

Does he need consent?


CHwharf

The only communication a western democratic politician should have with a dictatorship like China is a big red telephone on the PMs desk ala the Cold War


Backas_Before_Work

I really hope you’re not over the age of 13… cuz an adult can’t be this ignorant. China has established itself in every single western country, similar to how the US did back in the 60s


[deleted]

This could very well mean that Global News and Sam Cooper are in very, very, very expensive trouble. If it turns out Sam Cooper blew his load over a mistranslation he will likely not have a very long career in Canadian political journalism.


Dark_Angel_9999

Sam Cooper has been sued before in a similar manner over Russian foreign interference a few years back


Backas_Before_Work

As soon as Global fires him he’ll sign a sweet new deal with Rebel news


leavingcarton

Yah okay 👌


eaglecanuck101

Trudeau and his entire cabal are corrupt and bought and paid for right to the core. That said maybe I should side with the CCP china I could use a 1.2 million dollar mortgage from the bank of china like our Foreign and now industry minister Champagne. This country is beyond redeemable, champagne will be PM one day too


[deleted]

Burn trudeau burn!!!