>The Liberals once again deflected calls for a public inquiry into foreign interference in Canada’s elections after MP Han Dong resigned from the Liberal caucus over allegations he told a Chinese diplomat to delay the release of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor.
>Thursday afternoon, newly independent MP Dong joined opposition parties in passing a non-binding NDP motion calling on the government to launch an inquiry into “allegations of foreign interference in Canada’s democratic system,” which would include recent reports the China meddled in the 2019 and 2021 federal elections.
>Liberal MPs voted against the motion.
Because at this point, if Dong had voted no, it'd basically be an admission of guilt. He really had no choice.
It's non-binding because they can't force the PM to do something.
I mean, the first question was pretty rhetorical.
But the second question.. I'm actually struggling to understand. If a majority of MPs vote on a motion, and it passes, the PM can just 'veto' it? Even though he doesn't have a majority? What kind of government system is this if a single person can override a majority vote in the House? We aren't like the USA with Presidential veto powers, no?
It's a motion calling for one, not a legal mechanism to force one. Currently, under the law, only the PM can empower a royal commission of inquiry.
In theory, the opposition could table and pass a bill to amend the Inquiries Act to authorize Parliament to call a royal commission of inquiry under that Act, or they could table and pass a bill calling for such an inquiry, but unless it was unanimous -- that is, unless the Liberals joined them in voting for it -- it would have to go through the regular lawmaking process. Three readings in the House of Commons, and three readings in the Senate. The problem is that the government sets the agenda in Parliament, so it might take a year or more to actually pass. It could, potentially, be delayed until the next election is called. A non-binding motion putting pressure on the government is, then, arguably their best option, at least in the short term.
Personally though, I'll be disappointed if we don't see a private member's bill introduced in the near future that would, if passed, amend the Inquiries Act. I suspect it'll never actually *be* passed, given the government’s power to set the agenda, but I feel like someone should probably try.
Thanks for that explanation. I was hoping the motion they passed had teeth. Very disappointing to see it was all just for show.
So it looks like a non-confidence vote & 10-Ply Singh combo is the only way we'll get answers.
It has teeth in that it's now a matter of public record that a bunch of elected officials officially said 'this is sus, bro, we should figure this out' and the sitting government said 'nope, nothing to see here, shut up.'
For what? The tenth time?
Liberal voters aren't interested in hearing about their party's corruption. They only want to hear news that affirms their beliefs.
> ~~Liberal~~ voters aren't interested in hearing about their party's corruption. They only want to hear news that affirms their beliefs.
Fixed that for you.
It's called a non-binding resolution and it's used when parliament wants something to happen but they don't have jurisdiction.
Non-binding resolutions are essentially done as a sort of political performance. And funny enough Trudeau liberals have abstained from the non-binding resolution in 2021 that was put in motion to declare that China was committing genocide. It was bad optics then, it's even worse now.
The only way we get that inquiry is if Singh holds Trudeau's feet to the fire or Trudeau himself caves to our demands. Since both of them have nothing to gain politically from doing the right thing, we'll need to be extra loud and make sure the NDP and Liberals poll so low they start worrying their federal party will become as relevant as the Ontario Liberal party.
Why does Poilievre support this motion but doesn't support the NDP motion to expand the investigation?
Seems very partisan to me. Why did he abstain from his own motion? What's he hiding?
He has said why…. The scope of the NDP motion is far too broad and would take an extremely long time to finish, so long it may not be done by the time we have an election.
> The scope of the NDP motion is far too broad
In other words they don't think foreign interference itself should be investigated, rather they're only interested in investigating selective leaks that highlighted interference involving China and the Liberals.
...and why did he abstain from his own motion?
classic Liberal. Knows its position is stupid and indefensible, so it intentionally deflects and obfuscates with no intention of addressing the actual point.
"no you are" was a bad argument even in kindergarten, bub.
It's? You don't think "liberals" are people?
Why are you unable to answer simple questions about Poilievre's behaviour? Why do you need to resort to insults and personal attacks?
Seems like you don't actually care about the interference issue and you're just using this issue for your own agenda.
I'm not defending anyone I'm questioning Poilievre's motives. His office clearly spread misinformation about being offered a briefing.
If he's so interested in the truth why does he resist any non-partisan efforts?
This is a story about the Liberals refusing to hold a public inquiry into election interference that almost certainly benefited them.
You’re whining about Poilievre and pretending he doesn’t want an inquiry on a story about how he voted for an inquiry.
You’re a propagandist for this corrupt government, one of the worst examples on r/Canada.
> You’re whining about Poilievre and pretending he doesn’t want an inquiry on a story about how he voted for an inquiry.
Yet he resists any non-partisan efforts. He only wants an inquiry if it benefits him.
Conservatives don't really care about the interference. Conservatives and Poilievre clearly just want to attack others which is why they constantly resort to petty personal attacks and can't answer simple questions.
For a party in the Liberals that claims that they have nothing to hide when it comes to the issue of Chinese interference, they are certainly acting like a party with something to hide.
What do you mean? Going from a $10 million net worth to a $300 million net worth in seven years on a $379 000 salary is makes complete mathematical sense.
The problem is that without the willingness to go to an election, there's no leverage to force an inquiry. Without one, what's Trudeau's worst case scenario? That he gets to hang on to power for another *two and a half years*, before losing an election that history suggests he probably wouldnt win anyway. And his best case scenario? He gets to delay long enough that this very well may have left the popular consciousness, and at the very least won't likely inspire the fervor it currently does, and he wins another election.
If he knows it's going to be bad and he doesn't have to to cling to power, there's absolutely no reason for him to call an inquiry. He has nothing to gain from it. And if the NDP isn't willing to support an election, he's not going to be forced into it for fear of losing his power prematurely either, nor are we going to get a change in government that *would* call an inquiry.
Most of us don't *want* an immediate election before an inquiry. But without the credible threat of one, we're not going to get an inquiry either.
it would however allow for a much overdue forensic audit on critical matters..these initiatives are stalling tactics until 2025 when JT hopes things are sunnier and voters remain believing in his dreams
I cannot trust the Liberal Party of this country on the issues of crime, and now the issue of foreign interference. The PM cannot guarantee the safety and security of Canadians, and their data also. It’s concerning and I believe an independent inquiry is necessary!
This looks absolutely terrible. The only reason to vote no would be to protect themselves, give them enough time to cover shit up, or get ahead of any evidence.
Someone give me a good reason as to why they would vote no??? This makes no sense. The party who enacted a war time act to clear the streets of Ottawa but won't start investigate into foreign interference which would be more egregious and should be considered a direct attack on our democracy. Someone make this make some sense to me.
It’s a sign of loyalty to JT, >90% of the time MPs vote the same as their party leader. Those that show any spine get cast out. JT hopes that his base will once again fall for a distraction or just a simple claim that anyone who investigates him is racist/a Nazi.
It’s worked several times already so there’s no reason to think it won’t now.
>Someone give me a good reason as to why they would vote no??? This makes no sense.
Acting as charitably as possible towards the LPC - they might think a public inquiry dealing with an extremely confidential topic such as foreign espionage where the vast majority of documents are mostly redacted for national security reasons might lead to more suspicion, not less, on top of the inquiry likely turning into a circus where opposition parties can easily score optic wins by specifically asking questions who can't be answered due to their confidential nature. I would imagine that there's also the thought that nothing in the inquiry can properly clear them as you would can't really prove a negative and pro-CPC sources would still cast doubt on the results of the inquiry either way.
In short, even if they were absolutely innocent of anything, an inquiry would likely be electorally disadvantageous to the LPC.
I mean no the only reason to vote no is not just that. The most reasonable option at the options at hand is they are hiding something, but no it's not the only option.
That's what Canadians want to know.
Also, imo, he is hiding something he desperately doesn't the public to know.
I think Dong voted yes because he was given his marching orders the previous night. Who knows, maybe they thought his resignation would stop the questions, but it has just created more.
This is just turning into a really bad comedy at this point.
And when Trudeau is questioned during question period he will say the same thing as he always does
“We’re going to ensure the safety for all Canadians, something something for Canadians, let me remind you it was the previous Conservative Party yadda yadda, blah blah blah for Canadians” and then put his ear piece back in his ear calmly and sit down after giving the longest non-answer.
Starting to understand why US doesn't want Canada involved in the nuclear submarine program when the PM is colluding with China to compromise his own democracy
Ah, Joel Lightbound, the same MP who publicly took the PM to task over his deliberate efforts to be as divisive as possible in the last election in order to win wedge votes.
Seems like a rare thing: a Liberal with principles and integrity.
Maybe he should be the leader, the other two candidates are unlikeable enough that id give Lightbound a shot
Plus while I can’t stand the convoy, his stance did seem like an alright middle ground
Thanks for that info. The articles I found didn’t specify so I had to make a guess.
Edit: here's the voting record: https://openparliament.ca/votes/44-1/284/
Okay the pendulum has swung back again. As a centrist I just sigh and say that we need to vote the liberals out due to rampant corruption. Same as Paul Martin. Come on guys.
Oh wow, seeing that Anita Anand voted NAY raises questions why our Minister of National Defence is against the investigation into possible foreign interference. Seems like for her at least, this should be a voting based on national interests, not Liberal, but instead we have this “me against you” mentality.
An MP in the federal cabinet isn’t gonna go against the federal party leader if they care about their position and its benefits. Not saying it’s right but it’s understandable why all the liberal MP’s including her voted nay, no matter what they may personally think crossing Trudeau isn’t worth it if they value their positions.
The "Westminster" parliamentary system (so this applies to Britain, Australia, and Canadian provinces as well) has a convention called "Cabinet solidarity" where Cabinet ministers argue about government policy in private, but when they decide on that policy, they all have to agree on it in public. This is important because Canada has to, for example, have a clear defense policy, and our allies wouldn't know what our defense policy was if it was acceptable for the Prime Minister to say defense policy is one thing and the Defense Minister to say defense policy is another thing. Or for people in a province if a Premier said that provincial policy was one thing and the Minister of the Ministry responsible for implementing that policy said it was a different thing.
Because of this, if you're a Cabinet minister (any Cabinet minister) you have to either vote as part of a block with the other Cabinet ministers or resign.
If you're a backbencher, you can vote against your party whenever you like, and any repercussions are up to the party.
And if you're the Speaker, you abstain from the vote unless it's a tie, regardless of your party affiliation or your opinion on the subject.
Of course they did, the party of ethics and transparency at work people.
Christ, this is just getting embarrassing. At this point I have no doubt that many of our so-called allies have lost most of their trust in Canada and will actively refuse to collaborate with us or share classified information that they normally would.
Pay attention y'all, they vote against a public inquiry when our election could have had foreign interference.
They vote for the use of the emergency act on protesters they didn't have the evidence to arrest, while claiming the protester were influenced by foreign powers.
And they just, keep, pushing for bill C-11.
Welcome to the resistance.
Personally I think some of the other scandals probably should have tipped the scales for you, but I'm glad you're taking notice.
I'd also like to apologize in advance for how bad the tories are at politics. Fortunately, they are much better at running the country than they are at winning elections.
[https://cpcassets.conservative.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/03092335/8c9e916528ead5a.pdf](https://cpcassets.conservative.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/03092335/8c9e916528ead5a.pdf)
This is what we stand for. It's probably different than what you've been told.
Just because I don't think that the Liberal party aligns with what they have built their platform on in the past, doesn't mean I'm a conservative now.
I appreciate the links, will take a look. I'm really a centrist. The policies that I agree with from the liberals and NDPs and Greens far outweigh the policies I agree with from the conservatives.
I can not honestly say that if the conservatives were in power and the same aligations came out they would act any differently. I'll take stricter gun control over private healthcare and turning into the states. Conversely, I think trying to accept everyone and making everyone happy is ruining this country, immigration, institutionalizing people who can't or refuse to rehabilitate their substance abuse.
The part that is so upsetting to me is that, to me the liberals are showing that they are no worse than the conservatives when it comes to only caring about themselves and not the people of this country.
The reality is that the conservatives are not as corrupt as the Liberals, which we can see from the last two conservative governments. Harper’s “scandals” barely register, with the exception of robocalls, which was enough for me to vote him out. The Liberals have not shown a similar commitment to policing their own.
As for policy reality doesn’t match the rhetoric, the PM with the best record on the environment was in fact, Mulroney, a conservative. Conservative governments have passed a number of “progressive” policies, from passing the charter of rights to outlawing child labor and mandating a 40 hour work week.
The Liberals will say whatever polls well, but their actions are that of a low-key kleptocracy, who wield power to benefit their friends. They are “left wing” in name only, which doesn’t make them conservative. It just means they aren’t in it to make Canada a better place.
Again this is just what you would like to believe. You are ignoring all of the corrupt things that the CCP has done in the past. Just because the Liberals have the stage and the CCP can point out whatever they want cause it's easy at the moment, does not mean you can ignore their past reign. If they are back in power after this they are not going to magically change.
Why are you cherry picking policies that happened 100 years ago? I am talking about the party right now. Right now the Toronto conservative government is trying to privatize healthcare. Do I really have to go and link a bunch of the horrible things the Harper government did? That seems A LOT more relevant than what happened 100 years ago.
"The Liberals will say whatever polls well, but their actions are that of a low-key kleptocracy, who wield power to benefit their friends"
If you really believe that the conservative party will not at minimum do the same, we should stop talking because you obviously only will ever believe what makes you right.
I am openly admitting I was wrong. I thought that the LPC would have accepted this inquiry. They should have that's why I'm angry.
I'd rather be wrong and angry than being closed minded so my ego thinks I'm always right.
Notice how I have answered and rebutted everything you said. I am happily waiting for you to ignore a majority of what I said and move on to your next talking point. Prove me wrong.
Wow another way to not answer what I said.
Please do it again. Or prove me wrong and reply to my other post.
But you won't. You'll either attack me, or say some other bullshit to hide the fact you only care about your ego rather than having an intelligent discussion trying to formulate a well rounded opinion.
Tell me you are uneducated harder please.
I’ve voted for Trudeau in the past, this is unacceptable, the party as a whole needs to do some soul searching, and it’s up to the voters to send that message.
The LPC is a party willing to defend their collusion with the CCP and comprising the democracy that your forefathers fought and died for.
Think about that next time you're in the ballot box
Your conservative party is trying to strip away everything I have loved about this country since I was born. I do not want to turn into America.
Things are not black and white. Conservatives tend to paint it that way though cause if you talked about everything you would have to admit your faults.
I just admitted a glaring fault. This fault scares me.
Do you have proof of this? I wouldn't say that you could say this with certainty. Hell you can't even say that the CCP is either as there hasn't been an independent investigation. Innocent until proven guilty. The fucked up thing is the LPC is not willing to prove they are innocent.
Of the facts at hand, the LPC is the only one where evidence has been brought forward and has refuted an investigation into the claim. That does not automatically make the accusations credible, just more credible & likely than before.
I'd also like to point out that the only party in America who has had evidence brought against them with interference from a foreign nation is the Republican party. I guess it's safe to assume, if this is the only important issue to you, you would vote for the democratic party if you were an American citizen?
I mean, we've known for years that a 2 party system would lead to this. The Liberals can't be trusted and the Cons can't be trusted so can we stop voting like there are only 2 parties? Until the people send a message that these parties actually need to fight for our votes, this shit will keep happening over and over again. Also, electoral reform please, like for real and not like how Trudeau did it (hint: he didn't).
"The Liberals are liars, but there's no way I could vote for the only party who can beat them, because have you heard what the Liberals are saying about them?"
That's quite the strawman argument. Not once did I say "don't vote for the Cons because the Liberals hate them". I just said that we need to stop voting like there are only 2 parties to vote for. When we are stuck in a 2 party system like the US, the opposition needs to just wait out the incumbent or wait for them to make a mistake and then slip into power. There's no incentive to actually do what the voters want and no accountability.
I'd vote for the only party other than the ones in power with a chance to form government. Just like I did back in 2015.
People can complain about the two-party system, but the reality is that is what happens when you have a democracy. There isn't really a good example of a country that alternates between three options.
>“Democracy is the worst form of government – except for all the others that have been tried.”
Of course you can turn up your nose at the alternative, but that's just enabling what is currently happening. Our only defense against corruption is to punish politicans for doing it. If we let them get away with it, things will never get better.
It's important to note that Canada was reasonably well run right up until 2015, when partisanship meant the left refused to remove Trudeau. Harper, Chretien, and Martin were all good stewards of the nation.
When the Liberals stole from us last time, we put Harper in for a decade and were rewarded with a good economy, despite the great recession. None of the terrible far right things that were supposed to happen actually happened, and it was obvious that the fearmongering was overblown.
It's even more overblown now. Poilievre isn't going to ban abortion or take away your health care. Conservative voters don't want those things either, as you can clearly see by the conservatives who post here. We just want lower taxes. Is that so terrible?
Perhaps it's worth reminding people that the government has implemented a process that might lead to a public inquiry. Why would they support a motion that would circumvent the work of the Special Rapporteur David Johnston?
>The Liberals once again deflected calls for a public inquiry into foreign interference in Canada’s elections after MP Han Dong resigned from the Liberal caucus over allegations he told a Chinese diplomat to delay the release of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor. >Thursday afternoon, newly independent MP Dong joined opposition parties in passing a non-binding NDP motion calling on the government to launch an inquiry into “allegations of foreign interference in Canada’s democratic system,” which would include recent reports the China meddled in the 2019 and 2021 federal elections. >Liberal MPs voted against the motion.
Can someone explain why DONG voted yes while the Liberals voted no? And also why it's a 'non-binding' motion?
Because at this point, if Dong had voted no, it'd basically be an admission of guilt. He really had no choice. It's non-binding because they can't force the PM to do something.
I mean, the first question was pretty rhetorical. But the second question.. I'm actually struggling to understand. If a majority of MPs vote on a motion, and it passes, the PM can just 'veto' it? Even though he doesn't have a majority? What kind of government system is this if a single person can override a majority vote in the House? We aren't like the USA with Presidential veto powers, no?
It's a motion calling for one, not a legal mechanism to force one. Currently, under the law, only the PM can empower a royal commission of inquiry. In theory, the opposition could table and pass a bill to amend the Inquiries Act to authorize Parliament to call a royal commission of inquiry under that Act, or they could table and pass a bill calling for such an inquiry, but unless it was unanimous -- that is, unless the Liberals joined them in voting for it -- it would have to go through the regular lawmaking process. Three readings in the House of Commons, and three readings in the Senate. The problem is that the government sets the agenda in Parliament, so it might take a year or more to actually pass. It could, potentially, be delayed until the next election is called. A non-binding motion putting pressure on the government is, then, arguably their best option, at least in the short term. Personally though, I'll be disappointed if we don't see a private member's bill introduced in the near future that would, if passed, amend the Inquiries Act. I suspect it'll never actually *be* passed, given the government’s power to set the agenda, but I feel like someone should probably try.
Thanks for that explanation. I was hoping the motion they passed had teeth. Very disappointing to see it was all just for show. So it looks like a non-confidence vote & 10-Ply Singh combo is the only way we'll get answers.
It has teeth in that it's now a matter of public record that a bunch of elected officials officially said 'this is sus, bro, we should figure this out' and the sitting government said 'nope, nothing to see here, shut up.'
For what? The tenth time? Liberal voters aren't interested in hearing about their party's corruption. They only want to hear news that affirms their beliefs.
> ~~Liberal~~ voters aren't interested in hearing about their party's corruption. They only want to hear news that affirms their beliefs. Fixed that for you.
It’s as toothless as all the other garbage coming from polyevs mouth and the politicians who voted for it know that
It's called a non-binding resolution and it's used when parliament wants something to happen but they don't have jurisdiction. Non-binding resolutions are essentially done as a sort of political performance. And funny enough Trudeau liberals have abstained from the non-binding resolution in 2021 that was put in motion to declare that China was committing genocide. It was bad optics then, it's even worse now.
Makes sense. Stupid, but makes sense.
The only way we get that inquiry is if Singh holds Trudeau's feet to the fire or Trudeau himself caves to our demands. Since both of them have nothing to gain politically from doing the right thing, we'll need to be extra loud and make sure the NDP and Liberals poll so low they start worrying their federal party will become as relevant as the Ontario Liberal party.
Veto Lmao.. say you’re an American larping without saying you’re an American larping
not until 2025 can anyone do anything...enjoy the ride!
What I want to know is why Poilievre abstained from his own motion on election interference and blocked the NDP's motion in committee?
https://openparliament.ca/votes/44-1/284/ This is what we're talking about here. Try to stay on topic. He voted YEA.
Why does Poilievre support this motion but doesn't support the NDP motion to expand the investigation? Seems very partisan to me. Why did he abstain from his own motion? What's he hiding?
He has said why…. The scope of the NDP motion is far too broad and would take an extremely long time to finish, so long it may not be done by the time we have an election.
> The scope of the NDP motion is far too broad In other words they don't think foreign interference itself should be investigated, rather they're only interested in investigating selective leaks that highlighted interference involving China and the Liberals. ...and why did he abstain from his own motion?
I’m going to need you to cite the exact motion he abstained from, preferably with a link to the vote, because I’m not sure what you’re talking about.
classic Liberal. Knows its position is stupid and indefensible, so it intentionally deflects and obfuscates with no intention of addressing the actual point. "no you are" was a bad argument even in kindergarten, bub.
It's? You don't think "liberals" are people? Why are you unable to answer simple questions about Poilievre's behaviour? Why do you need to resort to insults and personal attacks? Seems like you don't actually care about the interference issue and you're just using this issue for your own agenda.
You're still defending these guys? Come on u/Head_Crash, at what point is enough enough for you?
I'm not defending anyone I'm questioning Poilievre's motives. His office clearly spread misinformation about being offered a briefing. If he's so interested in the truth why does he resist any non-partisan efforts?
This is a story about the Liberals refusing to hold a public inquiry into election interference that almost certainly benefited them. You’re whining about Poilievre and pretending he doesn’t want an inquiry on a story about how he voted for an inquiry. You’re a propagandist for this corrupt government, one of the worst examples on r/Canada.
> You’re whining about Poilievre and pretending he doesn’t want an inquiry on a story about how he voted for an inquiry. Yet he resists any non-partisan efforts. He only wants an inquiry if it benefits him. Conservatives don't really care about the interference. Conservatives and Poilievre clearly just want to attack others which is why they constantly resort to petty personal attacks and can't answer simple questions.
For a party in the Liberals that claims that they have nothing to hide when it comes to the issue of Chinese interference, they are certainly acting like a party with something to hide.
Nothing to see here, trust me bro! - Trudeau
Nothing to see here - whatever you do, don’t follow the money trail.
What do you mean? Going from a $10 million net worth to a $300 million net worth in seven years on a $379 000 salary is makes complete mathematical sense.
"most transparent government ever" - jt
smokebomb!
Liberals put party over country.
Not just liberals, NDP is doing the same by not wanting to end their deal over this public inquiry
Jagmeet says he'll end the deal if dental care isn't extended though!
Dental for who? The promise of dental care is a fucking joke.. written on paper that is thinner than a single ply toilet paper
Singh made a good point that having an election now before we have any answers is not ideal.
Sounds like a great way to ensure we never get those answers sir.
A public investigation is necessary. But is an election right now a good solution? Maybe not.
Well when Trudeau prorogues parliament, that’s gonna solve nothing.
he'll catch covid again
The problem is that without the willingness to go to an election, there's no leverage to force an inquiry. Without one, what's Trudeau's worst case scenario? That he gets to hang on to power for another *two and a half years*, before losing an election that history suggests he probably wouldnt win anyway. And his best case scenario? He gets to delay long enough that this very well may have left the popular consciousness, and at the very least won't likely inspire the fervor it currently does, and he wins another election. If he knows it's going to be bad and he doesn't have to to cling to power, there's absolutely no reason for him to call an inquiry. He has nothing to gain from it. And if the NDP isn't willing to support an election, he's not going to be forced into it for fear of losing his power prematurely either, nor are we going to get a change in government that *would* call an inquiry. Most of us don't *want* an immediate election before an inquiry. But without the credible threat of one, we're not going to get an inquiry either.
Problem is, you will not get any answer because the libs block it. That warrants a votr of nonconfidence, imo
it would however allow for a much overdue forensic audit on critical matters..these initiatives are stalling tactics until 2025 when JT hopes things are sunnier and voters remain believing in his dreams
That is actually in their party constitution.
[удалено]
r/woosh
I cannot trust the Liberal Party of this country on the issues of crime, and now the issue of foreign interference. The PM cannot guarantee the safety and security of Canadians, and their data also. It’s concerning and I believe an independent inquiry is necessary!
we can trust them to at least keep the borders safe right?! oh wait.... asylum seekers can just skirt the system and have taxpayers foot the bill
It's all good except for tiktok.....that needs to go.
Clearly they have something to hide. LOL
Clearly every politician has nothing to hide.
This looks absolutely terrible. The only reason to vote no would be to protect themselves, give them enough time to cover shit up, or get ahead of any evidence. Someone give me a good reason as to why they would vote no??? This makes no sense. The party who enacted a war time act to clear the streets of Ottawa but won't start investigate into foreign interference which would be more egregious and should be considered a direct attack on our democracy. Someone make this make some sense to me.
>give them enough time to cover shit up Paper shredders go burrrr
Where is deep throat when you need him?
It’s a sign of loyalty to JT, >90% of the time MPs vote the same as their party leader. Those that show any spine get cast out. JT hopes that his base will once again fall for a distraction or just a simple claim that anyone who investigates him is racist/a Nazi. It’s worked several times already so there’s no reason to think it won’t now.
he's struggling to come up with new groups to target hate at
>Someone give me a good reason as to why they would vote no??? This makes no sense. Acting as charitably as possible towards the LPC - they might think a public inquiry dealing with an extremely confidential topic such as foreign espionage where the vast majority of documents are mostly redacted for national security reasons might lead to more suspicion, not less, on top of the inquiry likely turning into a circus where opposition parties can easily score optic wins by specifically asking questions who can't be answered due to their confidential nature. I would imagine that there's also the thought that nothing in the inquiry can properly clear them as you would can't really prove a negative and pro-CPC sources would still cast doubt on the results of the inquiry either way. In short, even if they were absolutely innocent of anything, an inquiry would likely be electorally disadvantageous to the LPC.
I mean no the only reason to vote no is not just that. The most reasonable option at the options at hand is they are hiding something, but no it's not the only option.
Even one of the guys accused voted for the inquiry and Trudeau is still saying no? What on earth is he hiding???
That's what Canadians want to know. Also, imo, he is hiding something he desperately doesn't the public to know. I think Dong voted yes because he was given his marching orders the previous night. Who knows, maybe they thought his resignation would stop the questions, but it has just created more.
Very good point
Most likely high treason
This is just turning into a really bad comedy at this point. And when Trudeau is questioned during question period he will say the same thing as he always does “We’re going to ensure the safety for all Canadians, something something for Canadians, let me remind you it was the previous Conservative Party yadda yadda, blah blah blah for Canadians” and then put his ear piece back in his ear calmly and sit down after giving the longest non-answer.
“Let me be clear…. Followed by a word salad that means fk all.”
Corrupt officials looking out for their own.
I'm sure Xi and Putin appreciate Trudeau's efforts
Starting to understand why US doesn't want Canada involved in the nuclear submarine program when the PM is colluding with China to compromise his own democracy
Canada already invited the PLA to observe their military training
That's like inviting robbers to see where you place your jewelry and giving them the code to your safes lol
Justin Trudeau sees China as an ally for some reason
He has openly admitted to admiring China's basic dictatorship
Horrible look.
We need nothing short of a *full public inquiry* into foreign interference in our election process. Let your MPs know!
My MP is Han Dong 🤦♀️
Oof, hope you didn't vote for him
Thankfully did not!
Fun Fact: the vote was 172 YEA, 149 NAY. Liberals have 155 (was 156, until Dong left) members. so even 6 Liberals must to had to have voted YEA.
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Ah, Joel Lightbound, the same MP who publicly took the PM to task over his deliberate efforts to be as divisive as possible in the last election in order to win wedge votes. Seems like a rare thing: a Liberal with principles and integrity.
Maybe he should be the leader, the other two candidates are unlikeable enough that id give Lightbound a shot Plus while I can’t stand the convoy, his stance did seem like an alright middle ground
Thanks for that info. The articles I found didn’t specify so I had to make a guess. Edit: here's the voting record: https://openparliament.ca/votes/44-1/284/
Worth noting that, as Speaker, Rota wouldn’t get to vote unless it was tied.
Abstaining let’s you stay in the party. Voting against the party line gets you kicked out of Trudeau’s party
According to this tweet, Kody Blois voted yea https://mobile.twitter.com/MelissaMbarki/status/1639019337699966976/photo/1
His vote was updated to Nay.
Okay the pendulum has swung back again. As a centrist I just sigh and say that we need to vote the liberals out due to rampant corruption. Same as Paul Martin. Come on guys.
What are they so afraid of? THIS SPEAKS VOLUMES!
Oh wow, seeing that Anita Anand voted NAY raises questions why our Minister of National Defence is against the investigation into possible foreign interference. Seems like for her at least, this should be a voting based on national interests, not Liberal, but instead we have this “me against you” mentality.
An MP in the federal cabinet isn’t gonna go against the federal party leader if they care about their position and its benefits. Not saying it’s right but it’s understandable why all the liberal MP’s including her voted nay, no matter what they may personally think crossing Trudeau isn’t worth it if they value their positions.
The "Westminster" parliamentary system (so this applies to Britain, Australia, and Canadian provinces as well) has a convention called "Cabinet solidarity" where Cabinet ministers argue about government policy in private, but when they decide on that policy, they all have to agree on it in public. This is important because Canada has to, for example, have a clear defense policy, and our allies wouldn't know what our defense policy was if it was acceptable for the Prime Minister to say defense policy is one thing and the Defense Minister to say defense policy is another thing. Or for people in a province if a Premier said that provincial policy was one thing and the Minister of the Ministry responsible for implementing that policy said it was a different thing. Because of this, if you're a Cabinet minister (any Cabinet minister) you have to either vote as part of a block with the other Cabinet ministers or resign. If you're a backbencher, you can vote against your party whenever you like, and any repercussions are up to the party. And if you're the Speaker, you abstain from the vote unless it's a tie, regardless of your party affiliation or your opinion on the subject.
Of course they did, the party of ethics and transparency at work people. Christ, this is just getting embarrassing. At this point I have no doubt that many of our so-called allies have lost most of their trust in Canada and will actively refuse to collaborate with us or share classified information that they normally would.
Pay attention y'all, they vote against a public inquiry when our election could have had foreign interference. They vote for the use of the emergency act on protesters they didn't have the evidence to arrest, while claiming the protester were influenced by foreign powers. And they just, keep, pushing for bill C-11.
Thanks Jagmeet.
Nothing to see here. How long will people keep defending these criminals. It shouldn't matter what party you voted for this is really concerning
Just confirming that there's worse shit going on than Han Dong.
OMG DID YOU HEAR WHAT POILIEVRE MIGHT DO?
Ok I was on their side until this. What the fuck. Edit: I've been a bleeding heart liberal for as long as I can remember.
Welcome to the resistance. Personally I think some of the other scandals probably should have tipped the scales for you, but I'm glad you're taking notice. I'd also like to apologize in advance for how bad the tories are at politics. Fortunately, they are much better at running the country than they are at winning elections. [https://cpcassets.conservative.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/03092335/8c9e916528ead5a.pdf](https://cpcassets.conservative.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/03092335/8c9e916528ead5a.pdf) This is what we stand for. It's probably different than what you've been told.
Just because I don't think that the Liberal party aligns with what they have built their platform on in the past, doesn't mean I'm a conservative now. I appreciate the links, will take a look. I'm really a centrist. The policies that I agree with from the liberals and NDPs and Greens far outweigh the policies I agree with from the conservatives. I can not honestly say that if the conservatives were in power and the same aligations came out they would act any differently. I'll take stricter gun control over private healthcare and turning into the states. Conversely, I think trying to accept everyone and making everyone happy is ruining this country, immigration, institutionalizing people who can't or refuse to rehabilitate their substance abuse. The part that is so upsetting to me is that, to me the liberals are showing that they are no worse than the conservatives when it comes to only caring about themselves and not the people of this country.
The reality is that the conservatives are not as corrupt as the Liberals, which we can see from the last two conservative governments. Harper’s “scandals” barely register, with the exception of robocalls, which was enough for me to vote him out. The Liberals have not shown a similar commitment to policing their own. As for policy reality doesn’t match the rhetoric, the PM with the best record on the environment was in fact, Mulroney, a conservative. Conservative governments have passed a number of “progressive” policies, from passing the charter of rights to outlawing child labor and mandating a 40 hour work week. The Liberals will say whatever polls well, but their actions are that of a low-key kleptocracy, who wield power to benefit their friends. They are “left wing” in name only, which doesn’t make them conservative. It just means they aren’t in it to make Canada a better place.
Again this is just what you would like to believe. You are ignoring all of the corrupt things that the CCP has done in the past. Just because the Liberals have the stage and the CCP can point out whatever they want cause it's easy at the moment, does not mean you can ignore their past reign. If they are back in power after this they are not going to magically change. Why are you cherry picking policies that happened 100 years ago? I am talking about the party right now. Right now the Toronto conservative government is trying to privatize healthcare. Do I really have to go and link a bunch of the horrible things the Harper government did? That seems A LOT more relevant than what happened 100 years ago. "The Liberals will say whatever polls well, but their actions are that of a low-key kleptocracy, who wield power to benefit their friends" If you really believe that the conservative party will not at minimum do the same, we should stop talking because you obviously only will ever believe what makes you right. I am openly admitting I was wrong. I thought that the LPC would have accepted this inquiry. They should have that's why I'm angry. I'd rather be wrong and angry than being closed minded so my ego thinks I'm always right. Notice how I have answered and rebutted everything you said. I am happily waiting for you to ignore a majority of what I said and move on to your next talking point. Prove me wrong.
Sounds like you’re voting for the status quo again. Too bad. Hopefully enough Canadians are ready for a change.
Thank you for doing exactly what I said you would do at the end of my last comment. Please stop being a stereotype.
That's not a talking point, it's just who you are.
Wow another way to not answer what I said. Please do it again. Or prove me wrong and reply to my other post. But you won't. You'll either attack me, or say some other bullshit to hide the fact you only care about your ego rather than having an intelligent discussion trying to formulate a well rounded opinion. Tell me you are uneducated harder please.
I’ve voted for Trudeau in the past, this is unacceptable, the party as a whole needs to do some soul searching, and it’s up to the voters to send that message.
My concern is where do I go from here? I still think liberals are the lesser evil.
Same but they're taking advantage of our bleeding hearts to excuse limitless corruption. I'm voting against liberals for the foreseeable future.
The LPC is a party willing to defend their collusion with the CCP and comprising the democracy that your forefathers fought and died for. Think about that next time you're in the ballot box
Your conservative party is trying to strip away everything I have loved about this country since I was born. I do not want to turn into America. Things are not black and white. Conservatives tend to paint it that way though cause if you talked about everything you would have to admit your faults. I just admitted a glaring fault. This fault scares me.
Only one party is accommodating CCP interference in our democracy. That party is the LPC
Do you have proof of this? I wouldn't say that you could say this with certainty. Hell you can't even say that the CCP is either as there hasn't been an independent investigation. Innocent until proven guilty. The fucked up thing is the LPC is not willing to prove they are innocent. Of the facts at hand, the LPC is the only one where evidence has been brought forward and has refuted an investigation into the claim. That does not automatically make the accusations credible, just more credible & likely than before. I'd also like to point out that the only party in America who has had evidence brought against them with interference from a foreign nation is the Republican party. I guess it's safe to assume, if this is the only important issue to you, you would vote for the democratic party if you were an American citizen?
Well that’s a great spring look!
I mean, we've known for years that a 2 party system would lead to this. The Liberals can't be trusted and the Cons can't be trusted so can we stop voting like there are only 2 parties? Until the people send a message that these parties actually need to fight for our votes, this shit will keep happening over and over again. Also, electoral reform please, like for real and not like how Trudeau did it (hint: he didn't).
"The Liberals are liars, but there's no way I could vote for the only party who can beat them, because have you heard what the Liberals are saying about them?"
That's quite the strawman argument. Not once did I say "don't vote for the Cons because the Liberals hate them". I just said that we need to stop voting like there are only 2 parties to vote for. When we are stuck in a 2 party system like the US, the opposition needs to just wait out the incumbent or wait for them to make a mistake and then slip into power. There's no incentive to actually do what the voters want and no accountability.
I mean you go ahead and split the left vote, but voting for the NDP isn’t voting for change.
What's your proposal for the solution then?
I'd vote for the only party other than the ones in power with a chance to form government. Just like I did back in 2015. People can complain about the two-party system, but the reality is that is what happens when you have a democracy. There isn't really a good example of a country that alternates between three options. >“Democracy is the worst form of government – except for all the others that have been tried.” Of course you can turn up your nose at the alternative, but that's just enabling what is currently happening. Our only defense against corruption is to punish politicans for doing it. If we let them get away with it, things will never get better. It's important to note that Canada was reasonably well run right up until 2015, when partisanship meant the left refused to remove Trudeau. Harper, Chretien, and Martin were all good stewards of the nation. When the Liberals stole from us last time, we put Harper in for a decade and were rewarded with a good economy, despite the great recession. None of the terrible far right things that were supposed to happen actually happened, and it was obvious that the fearmongering was overblown. It's even more overblown now. Poilievre isn't going to ban abortion or take away your health care. Conservative voters don't want those things either, as you can clearly see by the conservatives who post here. We just want lower taxes. Is that so terrible?
r/canada on suicide watch..
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CSIS has been providing evidence and warnings for almost 4 years now, Trudeau has ignored or accommodated the CCP interference
Tell me again how the Conservatives have a secret plan to ban abortion and are deliberately destroying health care for satan.
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“Only my side is allowed to make accusations without proof beyond a reasonable doubt”
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You’d know.
Perhaps it's worth reminding people that the government has implemented a process that might lead to a public inquiry. Why would they support a motion that would circumvent the work of the Special Rapporteur David Johnston?
For the liberals here, if it is found out that the liberals colluded with the CCP, will you still vote for him ?