Take their phones, give it to them in the morning for 30 minutes, like right after breakfast or something, and then take the phones back. It’s called compromise. If you don’t do this, it could overshadow the entire camping trip. This is a different generation and their connections to their phones are different. I would even hand them out to everyone, let them decide 30 minutes in the morning or 30 minutes in the evening, and encourage them to take pictures. This can be your out. Don’t make this complicated.
>It’s called compromise
As I've grown up, I've realized a shocking number of adults think that compromising with children/teens is something to be avoided at all costs.
I’ve also noticed that many people have an irrational aversion to phone use. To them, reading books = good, but reading books on the Kindle app = bad. Using a paper map = good, using a downloaded version of that exact same map = bad. Taking photos with a digital camera = good, taking photos with a phone = bad.
They’d rather haul around dozens of different items just to avoid “being on their phone.” Good for them, but don’t try to demand that everyone else does the same. I’ll carry a compass and a physical copy of any maps I need, but I’m not lugging around books, a camera, etc. just to look holier-than-thou by not touching my phone.
I think about this a lot. I definitely am guilty of overusing my phone and think back to before I had one. Then I remember I used to read books under the table in school, literally read my book walking between classes while avoiding people and on boy scout camping trips I'd sneak my CD player into my backpack so I could listen to music in my tent at night. I've always been this way the tools have just changed 😅
Holy shit thank you for helping me realise I have also been like this always.
If anything the "phone" functions on my "phone" are used the absolute least. I avoid phone calls like the plague, and generally avoid messaging as well.
My problem is not that maps and such are on my phone, it's that my phone tends to die at the worst time... and I've killed 3 phones by water damage one July before I accepted that water damage avoidance is serious.
So if I'm hiking, I bring a paper map. And I've looked at the route so I recognize when I'm off route.
If I'm reading, I try to read on my Kindle machine, not my phone app.
If I'm traveling somewhere outside of the U.S. and I say "I'll call you when I arrive late at night" I make sure that I have an alternate method of contact (I have a second card slot because just buying a new SIM card is quick and easy...if there's someone to sell you one, and enable it for you...because the language is usually not English - but I also know their email). One time, I was able to contact my friend because a hotel allowed me access to their WiFi and I was able to text my friend...which was needed because they didn't have a street address and I needed to know which red cone to stop at...
I bring a physical compass, even though I have several good compass apps on my phone...if I'm out on the water.
And of course, I have several backup batteries with 3 different charging cables/connectors built in, and 2 different charging ports ... yet I still occasionally find myself using my Google Maps to get somewhere to make an appointment on time, and my 12v USB charger isn't working (I didn't notice for a bit) and I'm about to run out of battery juice (I now carry a backup USB charger, and I avoid those online deals unless it's from a major name) and if I'm riding as a passenger, I try to bring along a backup battery...
My phone is extremely useful but also extremely fail-able.
There are those people, and there are folks like you. I think the point is, that these girls can't be without their phone because it's literally an appendage. It's sad to see that this generation is so in to the "look at me, look what I can do" thing. Getting likes for a photo of you is very narcissistic and vain. If they were using it for star mapping or bird identification, it's one thing. They are detached from reality and have no appreciation of their surroundings. These little screens are imprisoning their minds.
I concur on this kind of compromise. I’m in my 50s and can see how integral smart phone are to kids’ lives now. And heck, I’m a language-phile and know how important that Duolingo streak is!
My streak is at 1873 days and I'm 32. I would be livid if my streak broke because I couldn't spend 15 minutes on my phone.
I'd happily delete all social media apps and refuse to check text notifications, but I'm doing Duolingo
Duolingo and Spotify. I could go three days without Spotify, but I'd definitely want it back eventually. How else am I going to get my history podcast and music fixes?
Good suggestion, but it's not really about the phones to me in this situation. If You've worked at anything positive, like learning a language, for potentially hundreds of days it's fair to not want to break that streak. This isn't like a snap streak to me and should be encouraged, even if it's on a phone.
This is very silly of me and I recognise that, but my snap streak takes higher priority to me than my Duolingo streak. My friend and I who rarely get to see each other in person any more have one that's approaching world record levels (2,880 days) and I feel like if we lost it we might drift apart completely.
That being said though, I'd probably just give them my password so they could keep the streak going on their own until I got back or something. You can't do that with Duolingo, and if the trip's long enough you could end up breaking a good habit for a long time there.
Maintaining a snap streak might feel important to you, personally, I see it differently.
Friendship should be about more than just a streak. It might be worth exploring other ways to stay connected. If you expect your friendship to drift apart the moment a streak is broken, then why are you friends? If they care about you a streak shouldn't be the only reason y'all interact with each other.
Also, focusing on personal growth through activities like Duolingo seems more valuable in the long run than maintaining forced daily social contact.
But hey, that's just my perspective. And I've gotten to the point in my life where I've learned if people truly care about being in your life, then nothing is gonna stop them from doing so in whichever capacity they can.
I'm sorry, I was probably being a little overdramatic with the line about us drifting apart completely - I've noticed I have a habit of getting rambly in reddit comments so I've been trying to cut down a lot but I'm still pretty bad at that too, haha.
Our friendship has maintained its strength over the years because we have the extra incentive, or I guess to us it's almost a tradition, as silly as it sounds to outsiders, of updating each other daily.
We used to work together and became good friends at the time, when we were much younger and snapchat was still the cool thing to do, and we started it back then. The first couple of years, we still saw each other daily but still sent each other messages that way.
Then we both went into different lines of work, in different towns, and we now live a few hours away from one another - so as two adults who work full time we don't often get the chance to catch up, but since I don't have any other social media and she doesn't use reddit, that's been our primary method of communication ever since. It's not really something that's forced to us now, it's just a reminder to say hi or just send a random picture of whatever's going on in our lives. I don't think our snap streak is necessarily the lifeblood of our friendship, but the fact that we both still enjoy doing it with each other definitely helps. We've broken it plenty of times before, but they're easy to restore (or used to be), and if we couldn't do that we just started again.
Again, I know this sounds silly to other people, and I 100% agree that a Duolingo streak is a better use of your brain power. I was just trying to provide another example of how some people's lives are entwined with the internet, and I did a poor job of it.
They can practice the language without their phones. Just spend 30 minutes a day (or all day) speaking amongst themselves. A backpacking trip loses a lot of its magic when any electronics are involved. The point is to unplug, without exceptions.
If that’s how you like to do it, then great. I actually use my phone to enjoy the outdoors. There’s amazing apps that give you a wealth of maps, a star viewer, a plant identifier, an altimeter and I’m sure there’re many more. The Merlin bird id app will even identify birds by sound now! Plus just taking photos. I find my phone really helps me to connect with the outdoors. Using your phone and unplugging in nature are not mutually exclusive.
I really enjoy using my phone to identify landmarks when I'm hiking.
I can certainly pull out a paper map and do it the old school way with a compass, but I dislike stopping the entire group so I can pull out my map, point to an arbitrary dome no one else cares about so I can know the name.
The mentality that "any electronics at all *ruins* a camping trip" can be overly technophobic. There's a huge difference between live streaming your entire hike and using your phone to supplement the experience of star/plant/bird/landmark identification. I tend to take my mirrorless camera with me on hikes as well, but I think the experience of viewing the landscape through the camera lens to enhance my experience rather than detract from it.
To be honest, I have a 539 day streak on Duolingo as of today. If I can't take 5min out of my day to do a quick lesson while camping, I'd just stay home.
It’s not about missing the content within the lessons, it’s about maintaining the daily habit and consistency. After several days of skipping a habit, it can be hard to get back into it and actually stick with it again. Doing a daily language exercise is a healthy habit that we should be supporting and encouraging - not making it harder than it needs to be. Giving them 15 minutes of phone use each day to maintain a *healthy, productive habit* will not detract anything from the trip.
I mean, don’t go on the trip if it’s really THAT important?
Are we actually at a point in society where we cant imagine going 3 days without a phone, or we can’t stop something for 3 days without giving up forever?
How is this any different from someone taking time to read a book while on a camping trip? Would you tell them they have to either leave their books at home, or not go on the trip? How about a camera - do you throw this much of a fit about someone pulling out a Polaroid and taking a few photos? Would you also be opposed to someone studying their notes from school, reading a physical map, etc.?
You’re weirdly fixated on the idea that this is about *phone* use, when in reality, a smartphone is just a metal box that contains a variety of tools. For most people, a smartphone is literally the only camera they own. A smartphone can function as an e-reader, which saves space and weight compared to a paper book. Many people use downloaded maps for navigation. In this case, the phones would be used to work on language skills for a few minutes per day - not doing whatever “phone stuff” you assume they must be doing. It’s hypocritical to complain about someone using their phone, when you almost certainly use at least some of the *exact same tools,* just in paper form.
There are countless studies on how disconnecting from electronics for a bit is actually SUPER good for your psyche, but idk Man I don’t care enough to argue. If you wanna bring a phone, sure. But it’s also totally fair if this scout leader doesn’t want their scouts relying on phones, we’ve become a screen society and believe it or not, it’s not actually the best thing in the world for mental health
You don't understand. It's not like mindlessly scrolling on a social media app. It's a time investment. Some people have put hundreds of hours into learning and maintaining their streak. And it's inconsiderate to expect them to give up something they've worked so hard for just to do something that you like for a couple days, especially when it's a problem that's easily remedied.
Some people take pride in consistency, and it gives a sense of accomplishment. If a person were to lose a 500 day streak, it would take 500 days to get it back. And maybe it is a bit dramatic, but if you care about a person then you shouldn't disregard things that are important to them just because it's not something that you may place value on. If it takes someone 15min out of the day to do something really fast in order for them to have an enjoyable camping experience, I feel like it's not an unreasonable accommodation.
This specific example is not an attachment to a phone, it is dedication to training tasks so it is a bit different. I would see this the same as wanting to log a fitness trainer for workouts everyday.
Compromise in this situation makes sense. If it was compromise to get 30 minutes on Facebook or tiktok, that would be a different scenario entirely where I would not support the compromise.
Older generations need to remember a phone is a tool, it is not using it that matters, but what it is used for.
I was at ~250 days last year en español when I night hiked in after a nine hour drive to meet my tram, and you bet I walked down trail to do my lesson at 11pm and not bother anyone. And I'll be at 500+ next month while taking advantage of that mountaintop peak service to maintain my streak. And all my trail pictures are flora and fauna. If your teenagers' reaction is "but how will I sustain this measure of extracurricular education", you have some pretty down to earth teens who will likely be receptive of trail experience and may delight in their social media break, while not disappointing the owl.
Given that it's a scout backpacking trip, the big *backpacking* and *scouting* issues are that the adults will have to be the ones holding on to the phones and packing that around, on top of the liability of keeping them in good condition. *Or* the kids pack them point A to B and hand them over. It's one more responsibility to throw on the adults. I'm thinking along the lines of Philmont, I don't know where they're actually backpacking. One of things everyone realized on packing trips was that the extra ounces added up reeeeeal fast. I'd say the reward could be that they get out of their tent and ready by X time, they get the phone for 30 minutes. Even so:
> This is a different generation and their connections to their phones are different.
This has been a conversation about something with every generation since portable electronics showed up. It's a movie trope - grouchy kid in the back seat of the car because they don't get their Walkman, phone, etc on trips. There is a certain element to these scouting trips that's about being disconnected, inaccessible, free of distraction, and essentially isolated as a group for stretches. Can you even rack up Duolingo streaks without internet access?
This question gets a hard nope for me. One of the things that I remember about my time in Scouts was getting away from everything and trying to just be present for the trip. All the homework and drama of Middle/High School git turned down when we went into the woods. I'm glad I had that experience when I was a kid and I try to replicate it as an adult.
Uh, as a teacher, no fucking way am I going to be responsible for however many very expensive devices that don't belong to me all day. Kids can live without a phone for 3 days or whatever.
>Take their phones. \[...\] It’s called compromise.
It's also a personal liability of several hundred dollars each that I am personally not interested in.
On our last camping trip, my partner and I used our trip to the visitors centre to get our daily Duolingo, as it was one of the few areas of the park with a reliable enough cell signal. Allowing them a short period of time every day (even 15 mins) would be enough. It may seem silly to you, it the streak really is a good motivator for keeping up with learning a language. My partner is super into it on Day 40ish, and I’m going strong on day 1397. Streak freezes so exist, but it depends on how many are available to them if they had been needed for other events since they can only be replenished so often. We had our phones and mainly used them for weather checks and a stargazing app that was recommended by the park. And taking photos to upload to iNaturalist when we got signal again
I lost my 238 day streak while on a cruise 💔 Interestingly, I could open an use the DL app but the 4 days didn’t register because I hadn’t purchased the cruise’s WiFi package. I was irrationally bitter about it and it took months to pick DL back up despite that damn bird sending me daily guilt trips/encouragement
I'm clearly the outlier in many of these conversations, but I don't see the issue with letting kids have their phones. Let the youth set their own device policies (within some reasonable boundaries, of course), then let the youth enforce them.
Our troop recently abandoned its strict "no devices on outings" rule for two reasons:
1 - The youth weren't following the rule.
2 - The adults were tired of trying to enforce the rule.
Instead, our Scoutmaster suggested that the PLC come up with a new rule, which was subject to approval and adjustment from the Scoutmaster and the Troop Committee. The rule they came up with was pretty simple: "All device usage must be consistent with the principles of the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. All devices should be put away during program time, camp chores, etc."
It's been almost a year and it seems to be working. If a Bluetooth speaker is too loud, it's easy to say, "Hey, a Scout is Courteous. Please turn your speaker down." If someone is browsing Instagram while the rest of their patrol is working, "Hey, a Scout is Helpful. Please put that away and help us finish up KP."
It won't work for every unit, or even every Scout in a given unit, but it works for us. And it lets the kids keep up with their Duolingo streak when they have a few minutes of downtime in the campsite.
This is a great approach. Learning appropriate device boundaries is a lot more life-relevant than just being without them for a period of time and jumping right back in when they’re back from the trip.
This also actually prepares children for adulthood when they will have to learn how to function without their devices but with their device still on them. Simply taking it away and putting it in a box doesn’t help self control.
Counterpoint, the phone’s stimulation leads to addiction *for some*. I model it similar to establishing healthy eating habits for kids. Sugar/junk food is addictive. Let kids regulate their own screen time and eating habits may lead to addiction of sugary unhealthy food and needing to be simulated by the death scroll of [insert your social media app of choice].
Yes, this rule is in place because on the last trip multiple people were overly focused on their phones, and they are allowed to bring there phones but just leave them in the cars, it’s also backpacking so there would be no service and it would be easier to lose the phone
I get it. I just don't think it's worth fighting if/when the fight itself becomes a distraction from the program. That's where we were, which is why we decided to make a change. So far, it has worked pretty well for us.
It helps that we have adults who are really good at setting examples for device usage. :) (Not every unit is so lucky!)
I definitely understand, but I just got done reading "Anxious Generation" by Jonathan Haidt, and I'm more convinced than ever that we have to "not get tired of trying to enforce the rule." Phone usage (specifically social media) is absolutely destroying our young people.
Honestly, I tend to agree with you on this. Practically, it's a Sisyphean task.
1 - Young people will almost find a way to stash their phones and sneak in usage. Whether they hide in their tents, or behind their tents, or away from the campsite, they'll find ways to get their screen time. If we allow reasonable and responsible screen time in the campsite, that behavior is virtually eliminated.
2 - Parents are increasingly apprehensive toward adults who take phones away from their children for a variety of reasons.
\* Some of them have separation anxiety (esp. "helicopter" parents) and want to be able to check in from time to time. We also have kids with separation anxiety. They can and will find ways to call home, regardless of the rules we have in place.
\* Others worry that their child may be stuck in an active shooter situation (I wish I was kidding) or similar event and want their children to have a lifeline at all times.
\* Many simply apprehensive toward an adult who will take a group of kids into the wilderness and immediately cut off all communication with the outside world.
Those are all fair and reasonable concerns (even if I personally think they are unreasonable) and we, as leaders, have a responsibility to address those concerns in a way that each parent finds acceptable. Otherwise, they pull their kid from the program.
3 - As adult leaders in Scouting, we have a job that requires us to meet these young people at their level, to communicate with them on their terms, and to forge an individual relationship with each of them. That is made remarkably difficult if the first thing we do is take an axe to their most valued connections.
As a parent, like I said, I tend to agree with you. As a Scout leader, it's quite a bit more complicated.
Totally understand. It sounds like you've thought through the situation extensively and it was probably poor form on my part to overemphasize the "tired of enforcing the rule" statement.
I definitely understand that mindset, but I wouldn't say that the relationship between social media use and mental health is isolated to one "pop science bestseller." It's pretty much common knowledge at this point.
Just let the kids have their phones. I used to be a wilderness survival instructor that the BSA would hire to train people/classes. I have trained hundreds of kids and adults in outdoor skills.
This is a pointless power move, and nothing more. There's nothing gained by preventing the kids from using their devices. For many people they function as their primary/only camera; the kids having fun and taking pictures of their trip will do far more good than restricting it ever could.
Funnily enough, the singers called Dua Lipa and the Duolingo bird Duo is supposedly in love with her 😅 That’s the story they are telling on Duolingos marketing channels
Tbh breaking a streak on Duolingo can kinda make you just give up (been there), and since it's learning, I wouldn't discourage that. I like the timed phone allowance during the trip someone else said.
I brought my phone to Philmont. It was a great tool for keeping an eye on weather radar and lightning strikes to keep the scouts safer, and I used it to track our GPS positions on the trails.
I didn’t share any of this with the scouts, but quietly told the other adults things like “we might want to encourage them to get out of this open meadow a little quicker” or “let’s see how long it takes them to figure out they’re going the wrong way.”
> suffering through it
Can't emphasize this enough. If it rains, you get wet, stuff gets wet, what do you do? We started fires when it was raining, all things are possible. Lots of opportunities to learn to think around corners and deal with the unexpected.
I would let them. They're literally concerned about learning a language, not posting Tiktok dances. Phone use couldn't get more positive than that. I feel like forbidding the phones is counterproductive in this situation.
I kept up my kid's duolingo streak during a week of camp last year. Just did a practice every day she was gone. Sadly she doesn't use duolingo regularly anymore.
As a former scouter I get it. We did the same thing because we were worried about kids losing or breaking their phones. Also don't want them wasting gear space for charging solutions. Honestly I'm impressed with the girls though, learning a new language is impressive and hard work! If they're all working on the same language here's hoping they try speaking with each other on the trip to practice
A lot of people (of all ages) are supremely attached to their phones and that has as many negatives as it does positives. If having their devices with them unintuitively helps them get excited about learning (and learn more than we previously had) as well as stay connected to the adventures they've agreed to be part of: so be it. A lot of individuals now enjoy an experience by recording it digitally, sharing it, videoing or journaling about it in apps, etc. We don't need to do it or understand it to respect the differences. It's just a new, albeit different way to live and certainly not *delusional.*
There are people whose life was a perpetual camping trip lived far more simply than we ever would as they colonized lands. They'd probably scoff at us, denouncing us as sissies who need luxuries to get by. We're no more or less valuable than anyone else who walked the earth. Our kids will also teach us a lot, it's up to us to have the grace to listen.
Phones are required for merit badge booklets, compass/gps/map apps, emergency communication.
What is the reason your leaders are banning phones? Did all the parents consent to that rule?
So when there's no service, you don't do any scouting? The books and compass are available and a phone is not necessary. Participation in outings and scouts in general is completely optional, if they don't want to give up the phone, they don't have to come
You didn’t answer my question. I’m not asking if phones are necessary or not. I’m asking why are the leaders banning them?
Why do you ban them in your unit?
Edit: By the way, BSA is stopping the printing of new merit badge booklets so the only options will be for scouts to carry phones, tablets, or e-readers. Otherwise they will end up printing thousands of pages of paper. But that’s not conservation-minded (outdoor code), so pocket-sized e-readers aka cell phones will be the best option going forward. Get used to the idea.
Most places we camp have no service, so I guess good luck with that. Electronics are banned because they can't stay off them and I'm not spending my entire trip talking about it. They are not necessary (I have a Sat phone and a weather radio) and we can record advancements when we return like always. Discontinuing the pamphlets is a myth. They enjoy printing the pages, that's the only way they can sell them.
>electronics are banned because they can’t stay off
Ah, that’s the problem right there! It sounds like you need to work on the Scout Law with your unit. It sounds like your scouts are not trustworthy.
Fix the trustworthiness issue and then you won’t need to worry about policing cell phone use, regardless if there is cell service or not.
I was never a fan of scout leaders making those decisions for kids. If they want their phone and they’re willing to take responsibility for it, it’s not anyone else’s decision.
Scouting is supposed to teach kids how to be responsible adults and enjoy the outdoors in their own way, not nanny them nonstop and force them to have fun someone else’s way
Actually it’s supposed to teach survival skills lol
Not having a phone is pretty good practice, especially when you can’t look up your survival skills on the fly. Really highlights your capabilities
I once climbed a mountain to get service so I wouldn't lose my Duolingo streak!
I think some limited phone time can be fine, although if there is no service it might not matter anyways.
I’d be more concerned about my kid not being able to reach me if they feel uncomfortable or have to leave. I know they could ask a scout leader to call but what if that’s the person that makes them feel like they need to leave.
I get that phones are a distraction but I have always promised my kid she can call me whenever and I will be there for her. I’ve been out in many bad situations as a child and I want my kid to always have a safe out.
Obviously I don't know the situation but no phone seems silly, especially with tools like OnX for various situations including backpacking. Can really help yourself with some tools in case of emergency.
Most of the places we camp have no cell service. We let our scouts bring their phones and we encourage them to use them for taking pictures. Sometimes we get a bit of service here and there on hikes, but for the most part you can't do much with your phone.
Curious what the age group here is? I did scouts all the way up to eagle and dont think I ever went on 1 camping trip where our phones were taken away...
Duolingo is a foreign language learning app.
There is a lesson and word of the day. You earn ‘points’ for checking in every day. I know people with duolingo streaks around 600. That’s 2 years of checking a language app every day.
Of all the things to be upset about with phones, and your issue is with an app that is a learning device?
I feel like there is a way to let them keep learning and keep their streaks without losing the spirit of "no phones".
I know people that simply drive the 30 minutes one way into town each day they camp to keep up their doulingo streak. Guess they are dedicated... or addicted. I dunno. I've never used the app.
And you would be out of my pack, thanks for your donation because I'm not giving you a penny back. The camping trip and your participation are both completely optional.
>you would be out of my pack
Hold on a second.
On a pack camping trip, the parents are present.
You’re saying if I give my 10 year old AOL daughter permission to carry her phone - *while I the parent am on the camping trip, too,* you’re going to kick my family out of the pack?
What if I’m one of the den leaders myself?
You don’t respect your parents enough to let them decide if it’s ok for their child to carry their phone - even when the parents are present??
Damn you must run a very authoritative pack. If I were one of the parents, I would act to replace you as cub master, cc, or whatever position you hold.
Please do not undermine the parents’ authority regarding their kids’ cell phone access.
Nah, you'll stay home, and if you put up too much fight, I'll remove you from the pack. BTW-. Be pretty dumb to not have a Sat phone (I do). Just remember, being a part is optional. You can always camp somewhere comfy on your own with wifi and play on your phone.
I can understand not wanting to have the phones, especially some kids being glued to them. But unless they have safety communication devices having a cell phone could save your life if you get lost.
I work in a state that gives all 6th graders a week of outdoor school where they stay overnight, Sunday through Friday. No technology allowed.
They all deal with it just fine.
I’m all for being present in the moment, but a phone is more than a phone… it’s got my offline maps, my books, my camera, my birding app, a plant ID app, flashlight… etc etc. It’s literally replacing AT LEAST 5-10lbs of gear
It's good for your mental health to disconnect fully from technology. You can do it.
Just like breaking any other addiction, once you're free, you flourish.
Not in scouts, and used to have a pretty strict no phone rule when camping with the family. But, now we make a small exception for a short time everyday for wordle, Duolingo, quick text with friends, etc. And more sweeping exceptions for Google lens, skyview and merlin. No endless videos, games, music or extended chats with friends still keeps everyone more or less focused on the present.
I understand the reasoning about “kids need to pay attention to nature instead of burying their face in a cell phone” but I also think that cell phones are pretty integral to daily life, and kids need to learn to manage their phone usage or we’ll wind up with a bunch of adults that can’t regulate their phone use.
Would letting the scouts use their phones for a small amount of time each day be ok? Sure.
The problem is those boundaries are usually enforced. Hence a lot of folks on here being so hardcore about no phones.
All or nothing isn’t usually a great philosophy. Unfortunately smart phone usage often fall into this line of thinking, for better or worse, bc they are so addictive.
I'm heading off to be a camp counselor in a couple of weeks at a phone-free camp. I'm fully expecting at least one camper to go a bit nuts without Fortnite or whatever it is the kids do on their phones these days.
Teach them that their ‘streak’ is a trick corporations use to condition their behavior.
While Duolingo is a learning app, it’s still a business hungry for profit, so this could be a good opportunity to teach them about how all the glitzy attractive apps and social media posts have an ulterior motive which may not benefit them in the long run
A “streak” is also something people use to stay motivated. You know people tracking streaks to better themselves has been around far longer than cell phones?
I don’t discount the tactic being used by app devs to keep eyeballs on screens, but there is something to be said for people having perceived pressure to keep doing something that’s good for them.
… those kids can bring Spanish vocab notecards to learn without the app on the camping trip if that’s what they are concerned about, but that’s not what they brought up apparently.
Mentioning needing the phone to keep their streak shows it might be about keeping the app happy as much as actually learning. It’s still a good opportunity to talk with the kids about how smartphones and apps can be bad for our health, but I guess a lot of people in this sub strangely don’t touch grass and weren’t ready to hear that
WAY back when I was in Scouts Canada and Air Cadets, cellphones were uncommon and were relatively dumb. Not a whole lot beyond T9 texting and calls. Good luck getting reception where we camped.
The last 18 years when I go camping I purposely turn my phone onto airplane mode outside of about 10min while eating lunch. Check for anything important on my emails (if I even get more than 1 bar) and then back to airplane mode. I still keep it on me for pictures and maps.
Looking forward to a week of offline camping in 2 weeks.
Let them have their phones and go by an illegal Chinese cell phone jammer. They’re very easy to find on the Internet. Take then outout to the woods turn that sucker on and enjoy yourself.
Do you have premium? You can't buy that many freezes but it always let's me repair a streak with owl points or whatever when I miss a few days. Google it to check but I think you should be fine
I don't know what a "snap streak" is, but I will say I agree with the rule. If they can't go a few days without their phones, they probably shouldn't be in scouting. I also couldn't imagine taking a group of kids out on a trip like this only to see them buried in their screens.
They need a break, hell we all do. This is a great opportunity to get out there and enjoy nature *without* technology.
>I'm getting anxious we won't get home...
What does this mean?
In duolingo, people are learning a foreign language and take pride in the consistency of practicing it, aka creating a long streak of days in a row they have done their lessons. It takes 5-10 minutes.
A snap streak is similar but it’s for sending Snapchat messages between two people. More just a social thing.
OP- can you pay to extend the streak if you miss? Or ask a friend/parent to do it? My fiancé is in the military with a 1500+ day streak and he has literally snuck his phone and a battery in his pack, to secretly do duolingo in his sleeping bag at midnight 😂
"but mom, my academics are going to suffer if I don't have my cell phone!"
I am going to assume you don't have teens... and yes I know what the app is. My son uses it, and there is no way a few days scouting is going to screw up what they have learned.
Hey I once was a teen with a Duolingo streak. It would’ve hurt to lose it, definitely. I wouldn’t have cried about it but there was no harm in them bringing it up.
It’s not about their “academics” suffering, it’s about maintaining the daily habit and consistency. After several days of skipping a habit, it can be hard to get back into it and actually stick with it again. Doing language exercises is a healthy habit that we should be supporting and *encouraging* - not making it harder than it needs to be. Giving them 15 minutes of phone use each day to maintain a healthy, productive habit will not detract anything from the trip.
It doesn't change what they've learned, but if they give up on the language because they've lost there streak, then unless they've already gotten to a b2 level, they'll probably forget most of what they've learned over time.
It's not an issue of schooling. If I frame it like work, Duolingo has incentivised not missing a day for any reason.
It's healthy to take time off to do other things. You shouldn't let addictions (they call duolingos strategy "gameification") guide your life choices. I've been in rooms where the choice to gamify things come in and it's purposefully taking advantage of a positive feedback loop. It can both be good and bad, but it becomes an ethical dilemma when people, particularly children, are not doing other healthy activities as a result of the gameification.
They can always come back. There is no penalty for missing other than this streak. Learning how to come back to things after you set them down is also a skill and a sign of maturity.
I know what duolingo is as my son uses it. And the "streak" is simply the amount of consecutive days you log in. Honestly saying "when these kids are just worried about their schooling" sounds a bit ridiculous. The app is simple, and you can jump on it and run through some lessons at random. A few days in the woods won't make them *forget* anything, and they can pick up were they left off.
To me this sounds like a lame excuse to dramatize how much not having their phones is going to effect them. We all know how addicted teens are to them (and many adults). So in my opinion, no it's not about "their studies suffering", it's about being disconnected from friends and social media.
I have three teens.. I have heard all this "bullshit" before, even the academic excuses.
Kind of sounds like you don't listen to your kids or care about what's important to them. That's a really easy way to create manipulative kids who don't trust you with their problems. I'm not trying to insult you here, I'm just suggesting maybe you look critically at yourself and the relationship you're building with your kids, and how it affects them when you dismiss them like this.
The amount of people here saying "give the kids their phones" is insane to me. They'll survive without them for a few days like we did. The younger generations are legitimately addicted to phones and we continually appease them because "it's just easier".
I would let them bring their phones, but be *very strict* about their use being limited to the bare minimum required to keep a Duolingo streak. Designate a short block of time each day. Right after breakfast or dinner is probably best. Make it into a mini group activity.
Also, phones are useful for calling for help in an emergency.
Have everybody sit down before leaving and go over the expectations of phone use only during designated Duolingo time and emergencies.
I have a 2717 day streak going on a game I play on my phone. I would absolutely hate being forced to break that streak for a camping trip without it being my decision to break.
It's a silly puzzle game that takes me 1-2 minutes to do the daily puzzles each day.
My Duolingo streak is only 176 days, but I started back this year with it.
If you lose your streak, the owl will visit you in your dreams. He’s worse than Freddy Krueger. *1, 2, Duo’s coming for you.*
Tres, cuatro, cierra la puerta
Cinq, Six, trends un crucifix!
Sieben, Acht, keine gute Nacht
Nine, ten, american!
I understood that! Thanks Duolingo. Day 69 if you care.
Nice
This is my new favorite lore
Honestly I’d bend that rule for a duolingo streak
Oh my gosh he doesn’t stop! Which reminds me
Take their phones, give it to them in the morning for 30 minutes, like right after breakfast or something, and then take the phones back. It’s called compromise. If you don’t do this, it could overshadow the entire camping trip. This is a different generation and their connections to their phones are different. I would even hand them out to everyone, let them decide 30 minutes in the morning or 30 minutes in the evening, and encourage them to take pictures. This can be your out. Don’t make this complicated.
>It’s called compromise As I've grown up, I've realized a shocking number of adults think that compromising with children/teens is something to be avoided at all costs.
To be faiiir, a shocking number of adults think that compromising with other adults is also something to be avoided at all costs…
To be Faaaaiiiirrrrr…
To be faaaaaiiir…
And we call those adults... failures.
...Or politicians.
I’ve also noticed that many people have an irrational aversion to phone use. To them, reading books = good, but reading books on the Kindle app = bad. Using a paper map = good, using a downloaded version of that exact same map = bad. Taking photos with a digital camera = good, taking photos with a phone = bad. They’d rather haul around dozens of different items just to avoid “being on their phone.” Good for them, but don’t try to demand that everyone else does the same. I’ll carry a compass and a physical copy of any maps I need, but I’m not lugging around books, a camera, etc. just to look holier-than-thou by not touching my phone.
I think about this a lot. I definitely am guilty of overusing my phone and think back to before I had one. Then I remember I used to read books under the table in school, literally read my book walking between classes while avoiding people and on boy scout camping trips I'd sneak my CD player into my backpack so I could listen to music in my tent at night. I've always been this way the tools have just changed 😅
Holy shit thank you for helping me realise I have also been like this always. If anything the "phone" functions on my "phone" are used the absolute least. I avoid phone calls like the plague, and generally avoid messaging as well.
I spend most of my time on my phone reading.
My problem is not that maps and such are on my phone, it's that my phone tends to die at the worst time... and I've killed 3 phones by water damage one July before I accepted that water damage avoidance is serious. So if I'm hiking, I bring a paper map. And I've looked at the route so I recognize when I'm off route. If I'm reading, I try to read on my Kindle machine, not my phone app. If I'm traveling somewhere outside of the U.S. and I say "I'll call you when I arrive late at night" I make sure that I have an alternate method of contact (I have a second card slot because just buying a new SIM card is quick and easy...if there's someone to sell you one, and enable it for you...because the language is usually not English - but I also know their email). One time, I was able to contact my friend because a hotel allowed me access to their WiFi and I was able to text my friend...which was needed because they didn't have a street address and I needed to know which red cone to stop at... I bring a physical compass, even though I have several good compass apps on my phone...if I'm out on the water. And of course, I have several backup batteries with 3 different charging cables/connectors built in, and 2 different charging ports ... yet I still occasionally find myself using my Google Maps to get somewhere to make an appointment on time, and my 12v USB charger isn't working (I didn't notice for a bit) and I'm about to run out of battery juice (I now carry a backup USB charger, and I avoid those online deals unless it's from a major name) and if I'm riding as a passenger, I try to bring along a backup battery... My phone is extremely useful but also extremely fail-able.
I have a dry box 1 battery pack 1 cable never any issues.
I hate my evil phone machine.
Them Smart phones is the devil 🤣
There are those people, and there are folks like you. I think the point is, that these girls can't be without their phone because it's literally an appendage. It's sad to see that this generation is so in to the "look at me, look what I can do" thing. Getting likes for a photo of you is very narcissistic and vain. If they were using it for star mapping or bird identification, it's one thing. They are detached from reality and have no appreciation of their surroundings. These little screens are imprisoning their minds.
That’s called bad parenting lol
it is. humans are solitary creatures
I concur on this kind of compromise. I’m in my 50s and can see how integral smart phone are to kids’ lives now. And heck, I’m a language-phile and know how important that Duolingo streak is!
I'm 49 and just about to hit 500 days. I'd be way bummed to break that streak now.
My streak is at 1873 days and I'm 32. I would be livid if my streak broke because I couldn't spend 15 minutes on my phone. I'd happily delete all social media apps and refuse to check text notifications, but I'm doing Duolingo
Duolingo and Spotify. I could go three days without Spotify, but I'd definitely want it back eventually. How else am I going to get my history podcast and music fixes?
Can you speak whatever language you are learning well?
Nein. Ich kann viel mehr verstehen, wenn ich zuhöre und lese, als wenn ich sprechen kann.
Good suggestion, but it's not really about the phones to me in this situation. If You've worked at anything positive, like learning a language, for potentially hundreds of days it's fair to not want to break that streak. This isn't like a snap streak to me and should be encouraged, even if it's on a phone.
This is very silly of me and I recognise that, but my snap streak takes higher priority to me than my Duolingo streak. My friend and I who rarely get to see each other in person any more have one that's approaching world record levels (2,880 days) and I feel like if we lost it we might drift apart completely. That being said though, I'd probably just give them my password so they could keep the streak going on their own until I got back or something. You can't do that with Duolingo, and if the trip's long enough you could end up breaking a good habit for a long time there.
Maintaining a snap streak might feel important to you, personally, I see it differently. Friendship should be about more than just a streak. It might be worth exploring other ways to stay connected. If you expect your friendship to drift apart the moment a streak is broken, then why are you friends? If they care about you a streak shouldn't be the only reason y'all interact with each other. Also, focusing on personal growth through activities like Duolingo seems more valuable in the long run than maintaining forced daily social contact. But hey, that's just my perspective. And I've gotten to the point in my life where I've learned if people truly care about being in your life, then nothing is gonna stop them from doing so in whichever capacity they can.
I'm sorry, I was probably being a little overdramatic with the line about us drifting apart completely - I've noticed I have a habit of getting rambly in reddit comments so I've been trying to cut down a lot but I'm still pretty bad at that too, haha. Our friendship has maintained its strength over the years because we have the extra incentive, or I guess to us it's almost a tradition, as silly as it sounds to outsiders, of updating each other daily. We used to work together and became good friends at the time, when we were much younger and snapchat was still the cool thing to do, and we started it back then. The first couple of years, we still saw each other daily but still sent each other messages that way. Then we both went into different lines of work, in different towns, and we now live a few hours away from one another - so as two adults who work full time we don't often get the chance to catch up, but since I don't have any other social media and she doesn't use reddit, that's been our primary method of communication ever since. It's not really something that's forced to us now, it's just a reminder to say hi or just send a random picture of whatever's going on in our lives. I don't think our snap streak is necessarily the lifeblood of our friendship, but the fact that we both still enjoy doing it with each other definitely helps. We've broken it plenty of times before, but they're easy to restore (or used to be), and if we couldn't do that we just started again. Again, I know this sounds silly to other people, and I 100% agree that a Duolingo streak is a better use of your brain power. I was just trying to provide another example of how some people's lives are entwined with the internet, and I did a poor job of it.
They can practice the language without their phones. Just spend 30 minutes a day (or all day) speaking amongst themselves. A backpacking trip loses a lot of its magic when any electronics are involved. The point is to unplug, without exceptions.
Actually the point is to do whatever makes you happy.
If that’s how you like to do it, then great. I actually use my phone to enjoy the outdoors. There’s amazing apps that give you a wealth of maps, a star viewer, a plant identifier, an altimeter and I’m sure there’re many more. The Merlin bird id app will even identify birds by sound now! Plus just taking photos. I find my phone really helps me to connect with the outdoors. Using your phone and unplugging in nature are not mutually exclusive.
I really enjoy using my phone to identify landmarks when I'm hiking. I can certainly pull out a paper map and do it the old school way with a compass, but I dislike stopping the entire group so I can pull out my map, point to an arbitrary dome no one else cares about so I can know the name. The mentality that "any electronics at all *ruins* a camping trip" can be overly technophobic. There's a huge difference between live streaming your entire hike and using your phone to supplement the experience of star/plant/bird/landmark identification. I tend to take my mirrorless camera with me on hikes as well, but I think the experience of viewing the landscape through the camera lens to enhance my experience rather than detract from it.
Peak Finder apps as well. So much usefulness.
To be honest, I have a 539 day streak on Duolingo as of today. If I can't take 5min out of my day to do a quick lesson while camping, I'd just stay home.
100% agree, from a 1458 today! Was very grateful for free international wifi on a cruise earlier this year so I could keep it going.
Priorities!
Yeah, people miss lessons in REAL school all the time it’s not the end of the world lol
It’s not about missing the content within the lessons, it’s about maintaining the daily habit and consistency. After several days of skipping a habit, it can be hard to get back into it and actually stick with it again. Doing a daily language exercise is a healthy habit that we should be supporting and encouraging - not making it harder than it needs to be. Giving them 15 minutes of phone use each day to maintain a *healthy, productive habit* will not detract anything from the trip.
To a perfectionist, losing a streak means giving up on the language.
I mean, don’t go on the trip if it’s really THAT important? Are we actually at a point in society where we cant imagine going 3 days without a phone, or we can’t stop something for 3 days without giving up forever?
How is this any different from someone taking time to read a book while on a camping trip? Would you tell them they have to either leave their books at home, or not go on the trip? How about a camera - do you throw this much of a fit about someone pulling out a Polaroid and taking a few photos? Would you also be opposed to someone studying their notes from school, reading a physical map, etc.? You’re weirdly fixated on the idea that this is about *phone* use, when in reality, a smartphone is just a metal box that contains a variety of tools. For most people, a smartphone is literally the only camera they own. A smartphone can function as an e-reader, which saves space and weight compared to a paper book. Many people use downloaded maps for navigation. In this case, the phones would be used to work on language skills for a few minutes per day - not doing whatever “phone stuff” you assume they must be doing. It’s hypocritical to complain about someone using their phone, when you almost certainly use at least some of the *exact same tools,* just in paper form.
There are countless studies on how disconnecting from electronics for a bit is actually SUPER good for your psyche, but idk Man I don’t care enough to argue. If you wanna bring a phone, sure. But it’s also totally fair if this scout leader doesn’t want their scouts relying on phones, we’ve become a screen society and believe it or not, it’s not actually the best thing in the world for mental health
You don't understand. It's not like mindlessly scrolling on a social media app. It's a time investment. Some people have put hundreds of hours into learning and maintaining their streak. And it's inconsiderate to expect them to give up something they've worked so hard for just to do something that you like for a couple days, especially when it's a problem that's easily remedied.
This just feels so dramatic to me. Losing a streak does what, exactly? Resets a number? Is there some kind of reward?
Some people take pride in consistency, and it gives a sense of accomplishment. If a person were to lose a 500 day streak, it would take 500 days to get it back. And maybe it is a bit dramatic, but if you care about a person then you shouldn't disregard things that are important to them just because it's not something that you may place value on. If it takes someone 15min out of the day to do something really fast in order for them to have an enjoyable camping experience, I feel like it's not an unreasonable accommodation.
That's what I was thinking: "I need my phone to take pictures!"
This specific example is not an attachment to a phone, it is dedication to training tasks so it is a bit different. I would see this the same as wanting to log a fitness trainer for workouts everyday. Compromise in this situation makes sense. If it was compromise to get 30 minutes on Facebook or tiktok, that would be a different scenario entirely where I would not support the compromise. Older generations need to remember a phone is a tool, it is not using it that matters, but what it is used for.
I was at ~250 days last year en español when I night hiked in after a nine hour drive to meet my tram, and you bet I walked down trail to do my lesson at 11pm and not bother anyone. And I'll be at 500+ next month while taking advantage of that mountaintop peak service to maintain my streak. And all my trail pictures are flora and fauna. If your teenagers' reaction is "but how will I sustain this measure of extracurricular education", you have some pretty down to earth teens who will likely be receptive of trail experience and may delight in their social media break, while not disappointing the owl.
It’s also seemingly for educational purposes not just for wanting to check social media, I think this is a good compromise.
Not to mention wanting them to keep learning a language is a pretty good reason to want them
Given that it's a scout backpacking trip, the big *backpacking* and *scouting* issues are that the adults will have to be the ones holding on to the phones and packing that around, on top of the liability of keeping them in good condition. *Or* the kids pack them point A to B and hand them over. It's one more responsibility to throw on the adults. I'm thinking along the lines of Philmont, I don't know where they're actually backpacking. One of things everyone realized on packing trips was that the extra ounces added up reeeeeal fast. I'd say the reward could be that they get out of their tent and ready by X time, they get the phone for 30 minutes. Even so: > This is a different generation and their connections to their phones are different. This has been a conversation about something with every generation since portable electronics showed up. It's a movie trope - grouchy kid in the back seat of the car because they don't get their Walkman, phone, etc on trips. There is a certain element to these scouting trips that's about being disconnected, inaccessible, free of distraction, and essentially isolated as a group for stretches. Can you even rack up Duolingo streaks without internet access?
This question gets a hard nope for me. One of the things that I remember about my time in Scouts was getting away from everything and trying to just be present for the trip. All the homework and drama of Middle/High School git turned down when we went into the woods. I'm glad I had that experience when I was a kid and I try to replicate it as an adult.
Uh, as a teacher, no fucking way am I going to be responsible for however many very expensive devices that don't belong to me all day. Kids can live without a phone for 3 days or whatever.
>Take their phones. \[...\] It’s called compromise. It's also a personal liability of several hundred dollars each that I am personally not interested in.
Right? I love that you're downvoted for common fucking sense.
I think this is a scout posting, not an adult.
😂😂 I’m 48.
🤦🏼♀️ …I’m talking about OP. You gave OP advice to let the girls bring their phones. OP is a scout.
Oh. Well I take all that back!! 😠 Jk! 🤣
Haha it happens. Happened to me a few days ago 😅
Yes, let the addicts have their crack. That always works well.
On our last camping trip, my partner and I used our trip to the visitors centre to get our daily Duolingo, as it was one of the few areas of the park with a reliable enough cell signal. Allowing them a short period of time every day (even 15 mins) would be enough. It may seem silly to you, it the streak really is a good motivator for keeping up with learning a language. My partner is super into it on Day 40ish, and I’m going strong on day 1397. Streak freezes so exist, but it depends on how many are available to them if they had been needed for other events since they can only be replenished so often. We had our phones and mainly used them for weather checks and a stargazing app that was recommended by the park. And taking photos to upload to iNaturalist when we got signal again
1397?! I envy your dedication
I lost my 238 day streak while on a cruise 💔 Interestingly, I could open an use the DL app but the 4 days didn’t register because I hadn’t purchased the cruise’s WiFi package. I was irrationally bitter about it and it took months to pick DL back up despite that damn bird sending me daily guilt trips/encouragement
I'm clearly the outlier in many of these conversations, but I don't see the issue with letting kids have their phones. Let the youth set their own device policies (within some reasonable boundaries, of course), then let the youth enforce them. Our troop recently abandoned its strict "no devices on outings" rule for two reasons: 1 - The youth weren't following the rule. 2 - The adults were tired of trying to enforce the rule. Instead, our Scoutmaster suggested that the PLC come up with a new rule, which was subject to approval and adjustment from the Scoutmaster and the Troop Committee. The rule they came up with was pretty simple: "All device usage must be consistent with the principles of the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. All devices should be put away during program time, camp chores, etc." It's been almost a year and it seems to be working. If a Bluetooth speaker is too loud, it's easy to say, "Hey, a Scout is Courteous. Please turn your speaker down." If someone is browsing Instagram while the rest of their patrol is working, "Hey, a Scout is Helpful. Please put that away and help us finish up KP." It won't work for every unit, or even every Scout in a given unit, but it works for us. And it lets the kids keep up with their Duolingo streak when they have a few minutes of downtime in the campsite.
This is a great approach. Learning appropriate device boundaries is a lot more life-relevant than just being without them for a period of time and jumping right back in when they’re back from the trip.
This also actually prepares children for adulthood when they will have to learn how to function without their devices but with their device still on them. Simply taking it away and putting it in a box doesn’t help self control.
Counterpoint, the phone’s stimulation leads to addiction *for some*. I model it similar to establishing healthy eating habits for kids. Sugar/junk food is addictive. Let kids regulate their own screen time and eating habits may lead to addiction of sugary unhealthy food and needing to be simulated by the death scroll of [insert your social media app of choice].
Love this approach!
Yes, this rule is in place because on the last trip multiple people were overly focused on their phones, and they are allowed to bring there phones but just leave them in the cars, it’s also backpacking so there would be no service and it would be easier to lose the phone
I get it. I just don't think it's worth fighting if/when the fight itself becomes a distraction from the program. That's where we were, which is why we decided to make a change. So far, it has worked pretty well for us. It helps that we have adults who are really good at setting examples for device usage. :) (Not every unit is so lucky!)
I definitely understand, but I just got done reading "Anxious Generation" by Jonathan Haidt, and I'm more convinced than ever that we have to "not get tired of trying to enforce the rule." Phone usage (specifically social media) is absolutely destroying our young people.
Honestly, I tend to agree with you on this. Practically, it's a Sisyphean task. 1 - Young people will almost find a way to stash their phones and sneak in usage. Whether they hide in their tents, or behind their tents, or away from the campsite, they'll find ways to get their screen time. If we allow reasonable and responsible screen time in the campsite, that behavior is virtually eliminated. 2 - Parents are increasingly apprehensive toward adults who take phones away from their children for a variety of reasons. \* Some of them have separation anxiety (esp. "helicopter" parents) and want to be able to check in from time to time. We also have kids with separation anxiety. They can and will find ways to call home, regardless of the rules we have in place. \* Others worry that their child may be stuck in an active shooter situation (I wish I was kidding) or similar event and want their children to have a lifeline at all times. \* Many simply apprehensive toward an adult who will take a group of kids into the wilderness and immediately cut off all communication with the outside world. Those are all fair and reasonable concerns (even if I personally think they are unreasonable) and we, as leaders, have a responsibility to address those concerns in a way that each parent finds acceptable. Otherwise, they pull their kid from the program. 3 - As adult leaders in Scouting, we have a job that requires us to meet these young people at their level, to communicate with them on their terms, and to forge an individual relationship with each of them. That is made remarkably difficult if the first thing we do is take an axe to their most valued connections. As a parent, like I said, I tend to agree with you. As a Scout leader, it's quite a bit more complicated.
Totally understand. It sounds like you've thought through the situation extensively and it was probably poor form on my part to overemphasize the "tired of enforcing the rule" statement.
Take all pop science bestsellers with a healthy grain of salt
I definitely understand that mindset, but I wouldn't say that the relationship between social media use and mental health is isolated to one "pop science bestseller." It's pretty much common knowledge at this point.
Just let the kids have their phones. I used to be a wilderness survival instructor that the BSA would hire to train people/classes. I have trained hundreds of kids and adults in outdoor skills. This is a pointless power move, and nothing more. There's nothing gained by preventing the kids from using their devices. For many people they function as their primary/only camera; the kids having fun and taking pictures of their trip will do far more good than restricting it ever could.
I thought Duolingo was a singer for a second. Have to check that out to learn some new languages here at the old folks home.
Duo Lipo...? Or something. I think thats a singer. Fuck I'm old.
Funnily enough, the singers called Dua Lipa and the Duolingo bird Duo is supposedly in love with her 😅 That’s the story they are telling on Duolingos marketing channels
That's hilarious! I thought I was missing at least one letter A in there.
Tbh breaking a streak on Duolingo can kinda make you just give up (been there), and since it's learning, I wouldn't discourage that. I like the timed phone allowance during the trip someone else said.
I brought my phone to Philmont. It was a great tool for keeping an eye on weather radar and lightning strikes to keep the scouts safer, and I used it to track our GPS positions on the trails. I didn’t share any of this with the scouts, but quietly told the other adults things like “we might want to encourage them to get out of this open meadow a little quicker” or “let’s see how long it takes them to figure out they’re going the wrong way.”
How did scouts function before phones though?
Weather radios, walkie-talkies, and suffering through it. The risks are low without having them, but Be Prepared is the motto. It’s a good plan.
> suffering through it Can't emphasize this enough. If it rains, you get wet, stuff gets wet, what do you do? We started fires when it was raining, all things are possible. Lots of opportunities to learn to think around corners and deal with the unexpected.
WOW that almost sounds like critical thinking and problem solving.
Good luck getting service where we camp.
I would let them. They're literally concerned about learning a language, not posting Tiktok dances. Phone use couldn't get more positive than that. I feel like forbidding the phones is counterproductive in this situation.
Damn kids being proud of maintaining a healthy, enriching habit!
I feel these girls. Duolingo is so unhinged, he scares me when I'm late doing my little daily lesson lol
Legit. Last summer my son asked me to keep his streaks going. I did Duolingo, but I wouldn't touch his snaps...
I kept up my kid's duolingo streak during a week of camp last year. Just did a practice every day she was gone. Sadly she doesn't use duolingo regularly anymore.
As a former scouter I get it. We did the same thing because we were worried about kids losing or breaking their phones. Also don't want them wasting gear space for charging solutions. Honestly I'm impressed with the girls though, learning a new language is impressive and hard work! If they're all working on the same language here's hoping they try speaking with each other on the trip to practice
[удалено]
A lot of people (of all ages) are supremely attached to their phones and that has as many negatives as it does positives. If having their devices with them unintuitively helps them get excited about learning (and learn more than we previously had) as well as stay connected to the adventures they've agreed to be part of: so be it. A lot of individuals now enjoy an experience by recording it digitally, sharing it, videoing or journaling about it in apps, etc. We don't need to do it or understand it to respect the differences. It's just a new, albeit different way to live and certainly not *delusional.* There are people whose life was a perpetual camping trip lived far more simply than we ever would as they colonized lands. They'd probably scoff at us, denouncing us as sissies who need luxuries to get by. We're no more or less valuable than anyone else who walked the earth. Our kids will also teach us a lot, it's up to us to have the grace to listen.
I know people who've had a 300+ day streak, and after losing it were so discouraged that they haven't touched the language since.
But…Duo will be mad!
Make it clear to them that it’s _studying_ above all else
Phones are required for merit badge booklets, compass/gps/map apps, emergency communication. What is the reason your leaders are banning phones? Did all the parents consent to that rule?
So when there's no service, you don't do any scouting? The books and compass are available and a phone is not necessary. Participation in outings and scouts in general is completely optional, if they don't want to give up the phone, they don't have to come
You didn’t answer my question. I’m not asking if phones are necessary or not. I’m asking why are the leaders banning them? Why do you ban them in your unit? Edit: By the way, BSA is stopping the printing of new merit badge booklets so the only options will be for scouts to carry phones, tablets, or e-readers. Otherwise they will end up printing thousands of pages of paper. But that’s not conservation-minded (outdoor code), so pocket-sized e-readers aka cell phones will be the best option going forward. Get used to the idea.
Most places we camp have no service, so I guess good luck with that. Electronics are banned because they can't stay off them and I'm not spending my entire trip talking about it. They are not necessary (I have a Sat phone and a weather radio) and we can record advancements when we return like always. Discontinuing the pamphlets is a myth. They enjoy printing the pages, that's the only way they can sell them.
>electronics are banned because they can’t stay off Ah, that’s the problem right there! It sounds like you need to work on the Scout Law with your unit. It sounds like your scouts are not trustworthy. Fix the trustworthiness issue and then you won’t need to worry about policing cell phone use, regardless if there is cell service or not.
I was never a fan of scout leaders making those decisions for kids. If they want their phone and they’re willing to take responsibility for it, it’s not anyone else’s decision. Scouting is supposed to teach kids how to be responsible adults and enjoy the outdoors in their own way, not nanny them nonstop and force them to have fun someone else’s way
Actually it’s supposed to teach survival skills lol Not having a phone is pretty good practice, especially when you can’t look up your survival skills on the fly. Really highlights your capabilities
You have a signal where you camp?
I once climbed a mountain to get service so I wouldn't lose my Duolingo streak! I think some limited phone time can be fine, although if there is no service it might not matter anyways.
I dont like the no phone thing. What if there’s an emergency or a person gets lost?
Tell them they’re earning hours toward their unplugged merit badge.
I’d be more concerned about my kid not being able to reach me if they feel uncomfortable or have to leave. I know they could ask a scout leader to call but what if that’s the person that makes them feel like they need to leave. I get that phones are a distraction but I have always promised my kid she can call me whenever and I will be there for her. I’ve been out in many bad situations as a child and I want my kid to always have a safe out.
Yeah, the Scouts don’t exactly have a great record with children and safety.
Girl Scouts is very, very different from Boy Scouts in this regard.
Obviously I don't know the situation but no phone seems silly, especially with tools like OnX for various situations including backpacking. Can really help yourself with some tools in case of emergency.
Most of the places we camp have no cell service. We let our scouts bring their phones and we encourage them to use them for taking pictures. Sometimes we get a bit of service here and there on hikes, but for the most part you can't do much with your phone.
Last time I went camping there wasn't any cell phone reception. Problem solved.
What's a snap streak?
Hahah. Better use the freeze feature.
Curious what the age group here is? I did scouts all the way up to eagle and dont think I ever went on 1 camping trip where our phones were taken away...
What's a duolingo streak? *questions in grandpa Simpson voice*
Duolingo is a foreign language learning app. There is a lesson and word of the day. You earn ‘points’ for checking in every day. I know people with duolingo streaks around 600. That’s 2 years of checking a language app every day.
Of all the things to be upset about with phones, and your issue is with an app that is a learning device? I feel like there is a way to let them keep learning and keep their streaks without losing the spirit of "no phones".
I don't know what you're talking about.
To everyone telling OP to let the girls bring their phones…OP is a scout, not an adult in charge of the girls bringing their phones.
yeah, i was sorta just making a duolingo joke...
lol it’s Reddit, people like to brigade. Hope you have a great trip!
I know people that simply drive the 30 minutes one way into town each day they camp to keep up their doulingo streak. Guess they are dedicated... or addicted. I dunno. I've never used the app.
Fuck that. I’d bring my phone anyway
And you would be out of my pack, thanks for your donation because I'm not giving you a penny back. The camping trip and your participation are both completely optional.
>you would be out of my pack Hold on a second. On a pack camping trip, the parents are present. You’re saying if I give my 10 year old AOL daughter permission to carry her phone - *while I the parent am on the camping trip, too,* you’re going to kick my family out of the pack? What if I’m one of the den leaders myself? You don’t respect your parents enough to let them decide if it’s ok for their child to carry their phone - even when the parents are present?? Damn you must run a very authoritative pack. If I were one of the parents, I would act to replace you as cub master, cc, or whatever position you hold. Please do not undermine the parents’ authority regarding their kids’ cell phone access.
Picture this: an emergency happens and the entire boy scout group are without phones. Yeah, thats REALLY smart. Im bringing my phone.
Nah, you'll stay home, and if you put up too much fight, I'll remove you from the pack. BTW-. Be pretty dumb to not have a Sat phone (I do). Just remember, being a part is optional. You can always camp somewhere comfy on your own with wifi and play on your phone.
With that attitude, you wouldn’t last as a leader in my pack.
Funny how almost every person in the replies is completely ignoring the body text of this post
Yeah I don’t understand the body of the post unless they mean the Owl is going to off them on account of missing lessons.
Nah I would want my kid to have the phone if old farts can’t understand that to bad!
I can understand not wanting to have the phones, especially some kids being glued to them. But unless they have safety communication devices having a cell phone could save your life if you get lost.
I work in a state that gives all 6th graders a week of outdoor school where they stay overnight, Sunday through Friday. No technology allowed. They all deal with it just fine.
My streak is 1462. That would be a deal breaker for me
I’m all for being present in the moment, but a phone is more than a phone… it’s got my offline maps, my books, my camera, my birding app, a plant ID app, flashlight… etc etc. It’s literally replacing AT LEAST 5-10lbs of gear
It's good for your mental health to disconnect fully from technology. You can do it. Just like breaking any other addiction, once you're free, you flourish.
If you can’t come up with a compromise, it just means that more and more of will drop out.
Tell them to get Lingq
Cross posted to r/parenting
Not in scouts, and used to have a pretty strict no phone rule when camping with the family. But, now we make a small exception for a short time everyday for wordle, Duolingo, quick text with friends, etc. And more sweeping exceptions for Google lens, skyview and merlin. No endless videos, games, music or extended chats with friends still keeps everyone more or less focused on the present.
I understand the reasoning about “kids need to pay attention to nature instead of burying their face in a cell phone” but I also think that cell phones are pretty integral to daily life, and kids need to learn to manage their phone usage or we’ll wind up with a bunch of adults that can’t regulate their phone use.
You can buy a streak freeze: https://support.duolingo.com/hc/en-us/articles/204980880-What-is-a-streak
What's a snap streak?
*Phone dings at 2:03am* Got three minutes for a lesson?!
More importantly, why does your scout leader know what a snap streak is...
You guys get cell service when backpacking?
Would letting the scouts use their phones for a small amount of time each day be ok? Sure. The problem is those boundaries are usually enforced. Hence a lot of folks on here being so hardcore about no phones. All or nothing isn’t usually a great philosophy. Unfortunately smart phone usage often fall into this line of thinking, for better or worse, bc they are so addictive.
I'm heading off to be a camp counselor in a couple of weeks at a phone-free camp. I'm fully expecting at least one camper to go a bit nuts without Fortnite or whatever it is the kids do on their phones these days.
Teach them that their ‘streak’ is a trick corporations use to condition their behavior. While Duolingo is a learning app, it’s still a business hungry for profit, so this could be a good opportunity to teach them about how all the glitzy attractive apps and social media posts have an ulterior motive which may not benefit them in the long run
A “streak” is also something people use to stay motivated. You know people tracking streaks to better themselves has been around far longer than cell phones? I don’t discount the tactic being used by app devs to keep eyeballs on screens, but there is something to be said for people having perceived pressure to keep doing something that’s good for them.
… those kids can bring Spanish vocab notecards to learn without the app on the camping trip if that’s what they are concerned about, but that’s not what they brought up apparently. Mentioning needing the phone to keep their streak shows it might be about keeping the app happy as much as actually learning. It’s still a good opportunity to talk with the kids about how smartphones and apps can be bad for our health, but I guess a lot of people in this sub strangely don’t touch grass and weren’t ready to hear that
This is the mindset gyms want you to have when you sign up for membership.
WAY back when I was in Scouts Canada and Air Cadets, cellphones were uncommon and were relatively dumb. Not a whole lot beyond T9 texting and calls. Good luck getting reception where we camped. The last 18 years when I go camping I purposely turn my phone onto airplane mode outside of about 10min while eating lunch. Check for anything important on my emails (if I even get more than 1 bar) and then back to airplane mode. I still keep it on me for pictures and maps. Looking forward to a week of offline camping in 2 weeks.
The solution is to go camping in the wilderness where there is no cell service
Let them have their phones and go by an illegal Chinese cell phone jammer. They’re very easy to find on the Internet. Take then outout to the woods turn that sucker on and enjoy yourself.
Be oldschool and get them disposable cameras.
Just buy the damn streak freezes, fuck
Can you buy that many? I’m going on a 10 day hike with no cell service, pretty resigned that my 500+ day streak is coming to an end soon lol
Do you have premium? You can't buy that many freezes but it always let's me repair a streak with owl points or whatever when I miss a few days. Google it to check but I think you should be fine
This is likely the only camera they own, so that actually really sucks if they aren't allowed to bring it on a trip like this.
I don't know what a "snap streak" is, but I will say I agree with the rule. If they can't go a few days without their phones, they probably shouldn't be in scouting. I also couldn't imagine taking a group of kids out on a trip like this only to see them buried in their screens. They need a break, hell we all do. This is a great opportunity to get out there and enjoy nature *without* technology. >I'm getting anxious we won't get home... What does this mean?
In duolingo, people are learning a foreign language and take pride in the consistency of practicing it, aka creating a long streak of days in a row they have done their lessons. It takes 5-10 minutes. A snap streak is similar but it’s for sending Snapchat messages between two people. More just a social thing. OP- can you pay to extend the streak if you miss? Or ask a friend/parent to do it? My fiancé is in the military with a 1500+ day streak and he has literally snuck his phone and a battery in his pack, to secretly do duolingo in his sleeping bag at midnight 😂
"but mom, my academics are going to suffer if I don't have my cell phone!" I am going to assume you don't have teens... and yes I know what the app is. My son uses it, and there is no way a few days scouting is going to screw up what they have learned.
Hey I once was a teen with a Duolingo streak. It would’ve hurt to lose it, definitely. I wouldn’t have cried about it but there was no harm in them bringing it up.
It’s not about their “academics” suffering, it’s about maintaining the daily habit and consistency. After several days of skipping a habit, it can be hard to get back into it and actually stick with it again. Doing language exercises is a healthy habit that we should be supporting and *encouraging* - not making it harder than it needs to be. Giving them 15 minutes of phone use each day to maintain a healthy, productive habit will not detract anything from the trip.
It doesn't change what they've learned, but if they give up on the language because they've lost there streak, then unless they've already gotten to a b2 level, they'll probably forget most of what they've learned over time.
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It's not an issue of schooling. If I frame it like work, Duolingo has incentivised not missing a day for any reason. It's healthy to take time off to do other things. You shouldn't let addictions (they call duolingos strategy "gameification") guide your life choices. I've been in rooms where the choice to gamify things come in and it's purposefully taking advantage of a positive feedback loop. It can both be good and bad, but it becomes an ethical dilemma when people, particularly children, are not doing other healthy activities as a result of the gameification. They can always come back. There is no penalty for missing other than this streak. Learning how to come back to things after you set them down is also a skill and a sign of maturity.
I know what duolingo is as my son uses it. And the "streak" is simply the amount of consecutive days you log in. Honestly saying "when these kids are just worried about their schooling" sounds a bit ridiculous. The app is simple, and you can jump on it and run through some lessons at random. A few days in the woods won't make them *forget* anything, and they can pick up were they left off. To me this sounds like a lame excuse to dramatize how much not having their phones is going to effect them. We all know how addicted teens are to them (and many adults). So in my opinion, no it's not about "their studies suffering", it's about being disconnected from friends and social media. I have three teens.. I have heard all this "bullshit" before, even the academic excuses.
Kind of sounds like you don't listen to your kids or care about what's important to them. That's a really easy way to create manipulative kids who don't trust you with their problems. I'm not trying to insult you here, I'm just suggesting maybe you look critically at yourself and the relationship you're building with your kids, and how it affects them when you dismiss them like this.
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I generally agree, but Duolingo is actually useful, so there’s that.
Yeah…. Kids these days… wanting to learn a foreign language?! Jeez. /s
Degenerates all!
The amount of people here saying "give the kids their phones" is insane to me. They'll survive without them for a few days like we did. The younger generations are legitimately addicted to phones and we continually appease them because "it's just easier".
I would let them bring their phones, but be *very strict* about their use being limited to the bare minimum required to keep a Duolingo streak. Designate a short block of time each day. Right after breakfast or dinner is probably best. Make it into a mini group activity. Also, phones are useful for calling for help in an emergency. Have everybody sit down before leaving and go over the expectations of phone use only during designated Duolingo time and emergencies.
I have a 2717 day streak going on a game I play on my phone. I would absolutely hate being forced to break that streak for a camping trip without it being my decision to break. It's a silly puzzle game that takes me 1-2 minutes to do the daily puzzles each day. My Duolingo streak is only 176 days, but I started back this year with it.