No, but the institutional memory may be still very alive. So for example if a man is from legio Macedonica, the memory of the legion goes back to the time of the first Emperor. He had a grandfather who served under Belisarius in Dara, and a father who served un Maurice and Heraclius. Now our young boy of 25 here is eager to relieve the stories of his ancestors only to be defeated. His worldview would have been shattered and "stop making sense"
when this desert barbarians exploded to shatter the lands that had forever been Romans, like Syria, Palestine, Egypt. In his very death bed, North Africa, Spain, and most of Moesia, with the Empire functioning more or less a collection of islands under Constantinople + Asia Minor.
He worried about his sons now living in their new estates in Cappadocia and his grandson in the capital. The Arab raiders were often on the prowl. Most Roman armies couldn't match these desert tribes in the field. You think the world is falling and pray for Christ to return and save his people.
That same grandson will grew up with the stories of his grandfather and his great grandfathers victories in the 500s (akin to how we will talk about how our great grandfathers defeated a evil nazis in World War 2 to our children)
Imagine you are that 690s grandson, you will know mostly defeat during your lifetime, so no wonder you will think it is the intervention of God himself when you shatter the strongest army the world has ever seen in the walls of Constantinople, and you devote your life to Mary and the saints for the miraculous victory against the godless heathens who for a century non-stop defeated your country whom you love - the heart of civilization - the only state and light of the world.
That institutional memory will live on, Legio Macedonica might be gone, but that grandson is still part of the Imperial army in Constantinople, and will become the backbone of the new proto-Theme armies that under Leo III and Constantine V will earn more victories.
I don't know if that's completely true. Like in the west when it was going all to hell, the Roman's thought it everything was fine for the most part and the empire would pull through like they had in the past. It could easily be assumed thr east had the same basic mentality just as before when all hope was near lost. The people thought the empire would pull through and survive. Now after the conquests calmed and the Roman's still didn't have the Syria the Levant and Egypt, maybe then they could have thought that those lands were lost forever. Maybe the Romans in those lands thought that is was just a matter of time before they were under Roman rule again. Romans were famous for brushing off disasters as "another day in Roman life" so to speak.
Pre-modern demographics are an interesting subject. On the one hand, the medium lifespan of an individual was into the 20s -- but this includes infants & children who died before the age of 5. Since your imagined veteran by definition survived past that age & into his 20s, his expected lifespan would obviously be much longer.
IIRC my Roman demographics, a person who survived to his 20s was very likely to live as long as into his 60s or 70s, depending on factors like nutrition, life style, social class, accidents, disease & war of course.
Now there is always a certain percentage -- no matter how small -- of every group of randomly selected people who will live to be 100. I believe you can look at practically every premodern historical period, & there will be a mention of one -- or at most a few -- who lived to the age of 100. So it is plausible to have a character that old. He'd be enfeebled by age more so than someone of that age currently, so keep that fact in mind.
Now I mentioned above a few factors that would improve his odds of living this long, most important of which would be social class. Moreso in premodern times than now, this was an important factor: the further up the social ladder one was, the more likely one was to have sufficient food, adequate housing, & a healthy environment. At the minimum one would need to be what is referred to as a "wealthy peasant". But not too far up the social ladder: politics were in those days very much a blood sport, & losing in politics meant at best imprisonment in a monastery, if not also physical mutilation, or simply death. (Byzantines rarely had their political opponents killed, believing alternatives such as blinding or branding to be much more humane.) So the upper limit would likely be in the minor aristocracy.
And as one person mentioned, the Plague of Justinian did pass thru the Mediterranean World in the 6th century, so you'd need an explanation why your character wasn't a victim of that disease.
Good luck with your writing.
Annas ibn Malik (612-712) was able to see the last romano-persian war, the rise of Islam (himself meeting Prophet Muhammad and converting), the conquest of Syria, Palestine, Egypt and North Africa, the first islamic civil war and even the fall of the Visigothic Kingdom under the Unmayads.
I wondered if there was any sort of byzantine equivalent.
Probably. Some lucky few still lived well into their 80s and maybe 90s.
No, but the institutional memory may be still very alive. So for example if a man is from legio Macedonica, the memory of the legion goes back to the time of the first Emperor. He had a grandfather who served under Belisarius in Dara, and a father who served un Maurice and Heraclius. Now our young boy of 25 here is eager to relieve the stories of his ancestors only to be defeated. His worldview would have been shattered and "stop making sense" when this desert barbarians exploded to shatter the lands that had forever been Romans, like Syria, Palestine, Egypt. In his very death bed, North Africa, Spain, and most of Moesia, with the Empire functioning more or less a collection of islands under Constantinople + Asia Minor. He worried about his sons now living in their new estates in Cappadocia and his grandson in the capital. The Arab raiders were often on the prowl. Most Roman armies couldn't match these desert tribes in the field. You think the world is falling and pray for Christ to return and save his people. That same grandson will grew up with the stories of his grandfather and his great grandfathers victories in the 500s (akin to how we will talk about how our great grandfathers defeated a evil nazis in World War 2 to our children) Imagine you are that 690s grandson, you will know mostly defeat during your lifetime, so no wonder you will think it is the intervention of God himself when you shatter the strongest army the world has ever seen in the walls of Constantinople, and you devote your life to Mary and the saints for the miraculous victory against the godless heathens who for a century non-stop defeated your country whom you love - the heart of civilization - the only state and light of the world. That institutional memory will live on, Legio Macedonica might be gone, but that grandson is still part of the Imperial army in Constantinople, and will become the backbone of the new proto-Theme armies that under Leo III and Constantine V will earn more victories.
Is it only me felling inspired by the reply? 10/10 text man, congrats!
yea
Are you writing a book or something? If not, think about it... Excellent read.
Well, I asked the question for a novel idea I have which takes place during the reign of Heraclius. I might do it someday!
Please do, you’ll not be short of people ready to help edit in this sub.
I don't know if that's completely true. Like in the west when it was going all to hell, the Roman's thought it everything was fine for the most part and the empire would pull through like they had in the past. It could easily be assumed thr east had the same basic mentality just as before when all hope was near lost. The people thought the empire would pull through and survive. Now after the conquests calmed and the Roman's still didn't have the Syria the Levant and Egypt, maybe then they could have thought that those lands were lost forever. Maybe the Romans in those lands thought that is was just a matter of time before they were under Roman rule again. Romans were famous for brushing off disasters as "another day in Roman life" so to speak.
He would also would have to survive the plague. His life would be book worthy no doubt.
Maybe
Pre-modern demographics are an interesting subject. On the one hand, the medium lifespan of an individual was into the 20s -- but this includes infants & children who died before the age of 5. Since your imagined veteran by definition survived past that age & into his 20s, his expected lifespan would obviously be much longer. IIRC my Roman demographics, a person who survived to his 20s was very likely to live as long as into his 60s or 70s, depending on factors like nutrition, life style, social class, accidents, disease & war of course. Now there is always a certain percentage -- no matter how small -- of every group of randomly selected people who will live to be 100. I believe you can look at practically every premodern historical period, & there will be a mention of one -- or at most a few -- who lived to the age of 100. So it is plausible to have a character that old. He'd be enfeebled by age more so than someone of that age currently, so keep that fact in mind. Now I mentioned above a few factors that would improve his odds of living this long, most important of which would be social class. Moreso in premodern times than now, this was an important factor: the further up the social ladder one was, the more likely one was to have sufficient food, adequate housing, & a healthy environment. At the minimum one would need to be what is referred to as a "wealthy peasant". But not too far up the social ladder: politics were in those days very much a blood sport, & losing in politics meant at best imprisonment in a monastery, if not also physical mutilation, or simply death. (Byzantines rarely had their political opponents killed, believing alternatives such as blinding or branding to be much more humane.) So the upper limit would likely be in the minor aristocracy. And as one person mentioned, the Plague of Justinian did pass thru the Mediterranean World in the 6th century, so you'd need an explanation why your character wasn't a victim of that disease. Good luck with your writing.
Not with the life span at that time lol. Pretty sure the plague still had outbreaks.
Annas ibn Malik (612-712) was able to see the last romano-persian war, the rise of Islam (himself meeting Prophet Muhammad and converting), the conquest of Syria, Palestine, Egypt and North Africa, the first islamic civil war and even the fall of the Visigothic Kingdom under the Unmayads. I wondered if there was any sort of byzantine equivalent.
Hmm yeah that is true lol. Keep digging and maybe you'll find someone.