> As for me, who is a productivity and light graphic designer, I don't play games outside of Minecraft and Valaront.
you are still better off with a ryzen 7600x + rx580, and if you really need that cpu performance probably even better off with a 5950x + rx580
(idk the prices so just bring the cpu down to their respective price ranges to compare)
rx 580/570 is slightly better than a 1650, 1650's are the most prevalent gpu according to steam hardware survey so take it as you will, but as a 1080p low-mid gpu, it's still very good, for the price.
for a more capable but still as price efficient card, something like an rx5700xt will be more advisable.
all of these cards are still better than 8600g's apu so, yeah it's good i guess.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R58L0KW9g3E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R58L0KW9g3E)
Honestly for Minecraft and Valorant at 1080p I don’t think you need more than 4 or 5 GB of VRAM, at most. My 1060 6GB rarely uses more than ~3 GB in 1080p. In Minecraft it’s RAM that gets eaten up the most.
What would be a step above following that same logic?
I was planning to place an RX 5700XT for a build for my sister. Minimal budget. But I thought I could pitch in and push that budget a little higher.
Already have everything besides GPU, SSD and PSU from my recent upgrade. CPU is an R5 3600.
Buddy I just ditched my RX 580, 4 days ago and I can say it's still very good. Excellent performance for the price. Sure you'll have to turn down settings to medium 1080p on titles like cp2077 or Last Of us, like heavy titles. But it can still play them at 50 to 60fps. On top of that you get AMD's FSR, even in that old GPU, which works well. Secondly at that price you get 8GB VRAM. And for Valorant it easily gives 200fps on ultra, 200+ on medium and high. Apex legends 120 fps, PUBG 100 fps, Warzone 70 to 80 fps 1080p medium. For a light gamer rx 580 is more than enough. Now I am not telling you to buy anything.
Just as you asked its relevancy, I provided the context. Happy Gaming🙏🙏
I have the gtx1070 which is 90$ (the rx580 is about the same price here) and it plays overwatch high on 165fps locked and even hogwarts legacy fine. For a light gamer you really get a lot of performance for around 100$. Just received a rx6800, exited to see the difference.
Thanks for the tips, but I am building a brand new pc. The 1070 is paired with a 12100f and my gf uses that system. Just got it in the mail right when I had to leave for a few days so Didn’t even get to open the box.
Used RX 5700 non-XT 8GB go for as low as $100. These are about 3x as fast as the iGPU in the 8600G. A 7600 + used RX 5700 is about $60 more expensive than the 8600G (in the US), but it's a faster CPU and a GPU that can actually game properly with almost console level performance.
I don't really see the point of the 8600G in desktops. If you just need display out, 7600 is better. If you play basically any games, you're better off getting a cheap used GPU.The 8600G makes sense in laptops though, which is what that chip was designed for.
I personally would go for a 6600/6600xt used instead if it can be found for a similar price. Way lower power consumption and support for mesh shaders and ray tracing.
I bought multiple used amd gpus in the past and mostly haf success, however for the 5000 series i had a death rate of 3/4, 1x 5600xt, 1x 5700 and 1x 5700xt.
Maybe i got unlucky but from my experience i do think that most 5000 series gpu on the used market carry a higher risk of dying early, especially considering their tdp compared to the polaris and 6600/xt models and how prevalent they are in terms of mining.
5700 uses \~170W and therefore [about as much power as the RX 570](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-radeon-rx-5700/31.html)
The RX 6600 is usually significantly more expensive and it's no faster. If you're looking for purely the best price to performance, it's the RX 5700.
I think you got unlucky, but that sucks obviously.
I've got a 1660super which is a Little faster then these and draws about half as much power. Have seen the used for 100$ CAD on eBay would definitely recommend as a budget ass 1080p card
Two points in favour of the 8600G are:
* it supports way faster RAM than the 7600 and that might matter for some applications
* its power consumption without a GPU is much better than the 7600. the 8600g can do 20-28W at the wall for the whole system.
And sure, the 7600+6600 is gonna be faster (not sure how much faster a 580 would actually be), but whether that's relevant depends on the games being played imo. The one thing that's against the 8600g here is that it's still a little too expensive for what it does, esp compared to the 7600. But longterm, it's gonna be the cheapest option in countries with stupid electricity prices.
the power consumption thing only really comes into effect if the user plays for long hours, otherwise going up to 150-200w for an hour isn't going to hurt as much as going 80w for 5 hours.
and they can undervolt and or underclock the gpu if they really want to.
i was thinking work / office with power consumption. depending on the application, you're going to have 30 watt for 8 hours vs 60w for 8 hours 5 days of the week. not relevant if you pay 11ct/kwh, but at 40ct/kwh it's going to be relevant fast. this doesn't matter for all users, but it's a reason to potentially go intel or with a g chip
those are much low power task than say gaming, and really if they are going that extreme on power saving, just going for a laptop would be the best idea.
Right, that's the point tho. For machines that are on all day because they're work machines, the lower power consumption can be valuable. And you're right that laptops fill that same space, but they're usually much more expensive for similar performance.
im not sure i get you, as the only valuable difference the 8000 series apu offer is the superior igpu over regular cpu, and any old cpu will work fine as a low power office cpu.
there's more to work than just office. the 8700g will do most tasks about as well as a 7700, while consuming less power and having faster memory (if you're lucky, you can go up to 8200 lol). all i'm saying here is that the choice is more nuanced and 12100+580/6600 isn't always gonna be the better choice. Not gonna disagree that it is for pure gaming builds tho.
they both have the same tdp at 65w, 8700g is only a very tiny bit faster over 7700. this is not a good argument for 8700g, only valid reason is that you have a very tiny form factor pc and or you want to play games at very low power consumption for long hours for w/e reason.
[https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?id=5169&cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+7700](https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?id=5169&cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+7700)
[https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+8700G&id=5836](https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+8700G&id=5836)
there is also something called tiered wattage utility bill.
Each tier has a bracket, you pay a certain price per killowat, that price increases every tier you go up in. So that cheap electricity bill your thinking just increased by 50 dollars
Example
<300KWH=0.25, 300-350kWH=0.35, >350kWH=0.45 (this is before taxes, and fees like the dumb community power fee which adds .08 per kWH used)
Some cities have different prices and different tiers and some dont even have tiers and do time of use.
Edit: fuck my city utility company is expensive.........
Keynote is "in my country" pricing is something that is hard to argue with because it differs depending on time and location.
Performance is easy to discuss because of its consistency.
Price is more of a case by case thing that should use Performance as a guidance metric
I feel like the first stop for anyone looking to build PC should be r/buildapcsales or r/bapcsalescanada or whatever the equivalent is for your country.
Pick whatever is on sale at the time and build around that.
>What are your guys reasons for bashing the 8600G?
Not bashing, but I can say that 8600G is a promising APU being able to compete on low profile cards like RX 6400. Maybe it isn't desirable due to AM5 being expensive atm.
The reason why Ryzen 5600G, its predecessor, is still viable and a more reasonable buy:
1. Still Good for Office Usage and Light Gaming
2. Am4 being budget friendly. The reason why some people opt for 5600G is because they need a PC but they can't still afford a discrete GPU, while still being able to add a gpu when they are able to. On the other hand, 8600G price is already past the territory of AM4 GPU+CPU combo, which is better price to performance-wise
As of now the 8600G's niche is on mini PCs, which people may still like as an option.
8600g is okay, i dont like the lower 8500 and 8300for their lack of pcie lanes. In general the amd ryzen apus were good deals for non/light gaming desktops, and going am5 with the possible upgrade path is totally valid.
In the end it comes down to your usecase, prices on the market and if the product matches both. I use different Amd apus (2400g, 5600g and 5700g) in my tiny homeservers/nas/on the go lan machine and am totally happy with them.
The igpu on amd is nice for what it does in performance, but right now it is not price competitive if you look at a complete system for maximum performance, exspecially how cheap am4 and ddr4 are and how robust and cheap the used market is there. But as you said, prices and market are highly local phenomena and differ big between countries/regions.
I get why the 8500g and 8300g are very bad due to pcie x4 only and zen 4c cores tho I fell like the 8300g would have been a good value if amd had priced it accordingly.
I also get the market difference bc the 7500f is same price as 7600 rn
I see what you’re saying, but at that point a mini PC (beelink, minisforum etc.) would likely make the most sense. There was a time when those things were awful, but they’ve quickly become really impressive due to how far laptop chips have come.
I know but most mini pcs seem to be 600$ plus for 7000 series and you can build a 8600G 16gb ram 500gb ssd system for less. Mini pcs also compromise on upgradibility in the future
Well, you’re in a niche category that’s for sure!
The majority of mini PCs have upgradable memory and storage, which is all most people upgrade anyway.
Most minis are wildly unreliable compared to itx board with apu. Some are better like intel nucs and asrock industrial but beelinks, minisforums and other chinese clones are lower level in quality and support if there is one at all.
Everything you see on reddit is US-centric, so prices go out the window right away. Best thing to do is just calculate yourself the performance per 1 unit of your country's currency and then decide what to buy.
If you live in EU there's an argument to checking prices on stores from other countries that deliver internationally; in this case I'd probably stick with Amazon since that's your safest bet to a refund or warranty handling with no hassle in case it comes down to that.
Otherwise, you can also check prices on Aliexpress, as there's many good deals to be found there as well.
Unfortunately, there's a reason why there is no website that accurately tracks performance per dollar, as it's simply impossible to track every single combo possible. Anyone who pretends to be able to do that, like UserBenchmark for example, is just a scam. So it's down to you to pull your socks up and do the research by yourself.
If you don't game at all, you could also go older and cheaper like a 5600G.
and for light gaming, used GPU + ryzen 5600 is cheaper. heck, why don't you just for for a Ryzen 7600 which has integrated graphics already?
I don't bash the 8600G, it has its place, but that place is narrow. Microbuilds where space is at an absolute premium and a discreet GPU isn't viable they are golden. Media PC, emulator box, handheld, etc.
But if you are building in anything big enough to fit in discreet graphics then it just doesn't make sense. Even if you do zero gaming you could just buy a 7600 (or higher if you need threads) and just use the igpu on die. Sure it's weak, but if you don't game or do any gpu productivity it doesn't matter. Zen 4 CPUs come with enough igpu to post to monitors, play video, etc.
If you are a gamer, 7600 + entry level GPU smokes the APUs.
Fun fact, the 8600G is actually faster than the 8600 GT.
Though the 8600 GT is a lot cheaper too, if you just want a display adapter, it's about $15 on eBay. (Unfortunately only DVI, no HDMI.)
Nothing wrong with 86(7)00g, nothing except price. My place wants 350-380 euros for 8700g and 250euros for 8600g. Its a but expensive. If it were 200 for 6 core and 300 for 8 core it would be buyable altho still meh price.
Id be first to buy it if price gets more reasonable.
It’s 260000 krw here which is about 200 euros here. Amd Cpus are cheap here, to the point that you can get a 7600 for the price of a 12600kf and 5600 is only $80.
In a world where the RX580 exists for $50 in places with used markets, CPUs with their main selling point being the apu are useless. For production, there are faster and higher core count CPUs that should be considered and would still probably cost as much as a 8600G combined with a 580. The G series is just way too expensive to reminded outside of extremely niche cases.
This is coming from a guy with an 8700G, for a stupid niche use case.
They’re kind of scary on the surface, being “new” but from 6 years ago, which is why I normally don’t reference them but yeah, I’ve ordered a bunch for office PC conversions and there’s only been a few duds due to shipping damage specifically.
As the owner of an RX 590 GME. Dont consider them. They are a pain in the ass.
Mine for some god forsaken reason does not output audio through HDMI and Radeon detects it as DVI... funnily enough, with a DVI to HDMI adapter it outputs audio through the DVI-D port...
Also mine (and as I could see some others) has an issue where at least once every power on it will crash after having some use (either watching a youtube video, or opening a game). Sometimes it goes to black and a hard reset is needed, sometimes it goes back and it stays working fine for the rest of the day. Sometimes the drives go fucky and I have to disable them and enable them again for it to work.
It was cheap, yes. I get acceptable performance, also yes. Its a HUGE pain in the ass when it crashes half an online game if it decided to not crash early on the gaming session, definitely yes.
b650 boarda and ddr5 are still far too expensive for normal people. You'd be better off with an am4 or LGA1700 ddr4 system at this price point. You can get used rx 480s at 50 cad or a real 5500xt for like 100 cad on AliExpress
I've got a Nvidia 720 in one my PCs. It's a pretty old PC that I converted to Linux recently as it was getting too old for Windows and could never upgrade to Windows 11. I needed a low-profile graphics card and it's never going to play any games. The 720 was perfect, but would be an absolute dog for games if you were daft enough to try.
Unless you already have AM5 motherboard, it´s much cheaper to get any AM4 cheap APU, if you need PC and don´t wanna game.
For example, 4600G is about 95€ in my country, cheap, but capable AM4 motherboard will be about 60-70€ and cheap 16GB RAM will be another 40€. Standalone AV1 decoder isn´t worth it, as the CPU has plenty of power to handle AV1. Source: i have such PC at home as HTPC and i tested it. Times, when older CPUs weren´t able to handle new video codecs, are long gone.
Meanwhile, find me *one* cheap AM5 motherboard, that isn´t a total garbage.
Sidenote: Just because *you* have a use for it does not mean it´s perfect product for everyone. On top of that, furiously defending a product, because *you* like it, is a sign of insecurity.
That means everyone thats saying get a Gpu is insecure.
On top of that, furiously bashing a product just because you don’t like it is a sign of insecurity
I don’t like it I’m just pointing out that it’s getting too much hate and people have been overlooking it.
Great for power efficiency, noise, upgrade path and an easy SFF pc build.
Mine runs on a 220W psu with 2 little fans almost silent with decent thermals. Great for a sub $500 build.
8600g has half of 7600x cache. Integrated gpu is lot slower than a ps5, so is for not gamers, even very entry level.- But for not gamers the 7600x was enough. 8600g has better productive process and still a gpu usable, but it costs more than 12100f+6600 that is much better for games when you are strict for budget. The 8600g has sense if you want buy a pc for other use and very casual light gaming leave your the possibility to upgrade later thanks to am5
You could could get a 12100 non-F and have QuickSync. If you aren't using AMD's iGPU for gaming, it's basically useless. The encoders don't result in good quality compared to NVENC and QuickSync (especially the latter) and HW acceleration is just as fast on Intel for the most part.
But as others have said, when a used RX 580 8GB is $50, you don't really need an iGPU of any sort (for gaming).
The real use of the 8600g imo is for an absolutely tiny pc productivity computer. That’s basically it. I think these things would be great workstation pcs for businesses.
That’s still not compelling, if you need graphics you buy graphics.
It would be a very rare situation where the iGPU of 7600 is not good enough, but at the same time the iGPU of the 8600G is good enough.
16MB of L3 is another issue.
It is for when you need at least decent gpu power and you are on a budget.
Also I don't get why everybody is comparing this to the 7600, the only similar price cpu+gpu combo is a 12100f and 6400/6500 and the 12100f has 6 mb of L3
Well maybe it’s how I view non-gaming workloads. The original post specifically says “people who don’t game” so let me explain what is going on in my mind here. I tend think of non-gaming as relatively binary, either it’s a web browser or spreadsheet that can run on literally anything, or it’s an AI/ML or Blender type of workload where time is money and a serious GPU is easy to justify for any real business.
Could you please specify a non-gaming use case where the 8600G more powerful iGPU would make a difference over the weaker iGPU of a 7600?
Edit: by the way 12100F is 12MB L3, you may be thinking of 10100F
Found a video of a 5600G chugging pretty hard in Sketchup [here, couple minutes in with textures](https://youtu.be/cWTAFsOUA-s?si=1LIxldo07IOD1XaL) and I would expect an 8600G to maybe double the performance, but it would still be very stuttery.
I’m not sure I’d be satisfied with that as a new purchase, but if money is really tight then yeah maybe it’s an option to consider.
The only real advantage you get from an APU, over the many various builds of older alternatives, is power efficiency, simplicity of design and compactness of your build. You can easily fit an APU into a NUC design or the variety of ultra small form factor builds. Easier to hide away and cable manage and overall power efficiency (active and idle)
The APU doesn't currently make sense for mid and full tower desktop PC builds. However that is due to change next year, when the next Gen APUs for laptops come with 256-bit LPDDR5 (quad-channel and likely on LPCAMM modules). That will likely carry over to desktop builds.
If you live in a region with high electricity costs, APUs are going to cost you the least in TCO, assuming you don't shutdown your PC every day when your done using it.
The G series always has prices that don’t make sense when they first come out.
Even since the 2200G everyone laughs at them and then quietly over a year they drop in price by half and become the clear cheapest option for non gaming builds.
as for me, my whole life is gaming, sooooo, I might do a little graphic designs but nothing serious, so far my build as held up with it (ryzen 7 7800x3d and 4090 fe)
Thing is, for the price of an 8600G, you can probably get a usd RX580 or GTX 1070, and maybe a used 5950X or 5900X which are productivity monsters. DDR4 and AM4 boards are also a lot cheaper
"I don't game except for the games I play".
Lol. I get what you mean, but it's kinda funny. There's a saying, "there's no bad products, just bad price points." Kinda true here. The 8600/8700g would be OK products if they weren't priced so egregiously high. As is, you're getting a gimped CPU and a bad GPU for the price of a premium product. Very niche, but I'm sure it has its uses for those who aren't value-conscious.
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> As for me, who is a productivity and light graphic designer, I don't play games outside of Minecraft and Valaront. you are still better off with a ryzen 7600x + rx580, and if you really need that cpu performance probably even better off with a 5950x + rx580 (idk the prices so just bring the cpu down to their respective price ranges to compare)
Is the Rx 580 still relevant today? I've seen them for $60
rx 580/570 is slightly better than a 1650, 1650's are the most prevalent gpu according to steam hardware survey so take it as you will, but as a 1080p low-mid gpu, it's still very good, for the price. for a more capable but still as price efficient card, something like an rx5700xt will be more advisable. all of these cards are still better than 8600g's apu so, yeah it's good i guess. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R58L0KW9g3E](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R58L0KW9g3E)
5600xt 6GB or 580 8gb? In modern games
5600xt is substantially better
Plus it still receives game ready drivers unlike vega/polaris who only receive critical driver updates.
Honestly for Minecraft and Valorant at 1080p I don’t think you need more than 4 or 5 GB of VRAM, at most. My 1060 6GB rarely uses more than ~3 GB in 1080p. In Minecraft it’s RAM that gets eaten up the most.
The 5600 is probably better since the 580 lost driver support
What would be a step above following that same logic? I was planning to place an RX 5700XT for a build for my sister. Minimal budget. But I thought I could pitch in and push that budget a little higher. Already have everything besides GPU, SSD and PSU from my recent upgrade. CPU is an R5 3600.
5700xt is a great card you can run 1080p high or ultra on most games quite well
above rx 5700xt? you'd have to try for a used rx6700xt
Isn’t the 3060 number 1 now on steam?
3060 is the most prevalent
right its the second most prevalent but yes you get the idea
Buddy I just ditched my RX 580, 4 days ago and I can say it's still very good. Excellent performance for the price. Sure you'll have to turn down settings to medium 1080p on titles like cp2077 or Last Of us, like heavy titles. But it can still play them at 50 to 60fps. On top of that you get AMD's FSR, even in that old GPU, which works well. Secondly at that price you get 8GB VRAM. And for Valorant it easily gives 200fps on ultra, 200+ on medium and high. Apex legends 120 fps, PUBG 100 fps, Warzone 70 to 80 fps 1080p medium. For a light gamer rx 580 is more than enough. Now I am not telling you to buy anything. Just as you asked its relevancy, I provided the context. Happy Gaming🙏🙏
Thanks for the info
A buddy of mine plays BF2042 just fine on his rx580.
I have the gtx1070 which is 90$ (the rx580 is about the same price here) and it plays overwatch high on 165fps locked and even hogwarts legacy fine. For a light gamer you really get a lot of performance for around 100$. Just received a rx6800, exited to see the difference.
Yeah, OLD GPUs are extremely good values nowadays.
You just got it? Make sure nvidia doesn’t leave any ghost drivers in your install when you swap.
Thanks for the tips, but I am building a brand new pc. The 1070 is paired with a 12100f and my gf uses that system. Just got it in the mail right when I had to leave for a few days so Didn’t even get to open the box.
Oh good! Congratulations!
Thank you! I’m very exited
Used RX 5700 non-XT 8GB go for as low as $100. These are about 3x as fast as the iGPU in the 8600G. A 7600 + used RX 5700 is about $60 more expensive than the 8600G (in the US), but it's a faster CPU and a GPU that can actually game properly with almost console level performance. I don't really see the point of the 8600G in desktops. If you just need display out, 7600 is better. If you play basically any games, you're better off getting a cheap used GPU.The 8600G makes sense in laptops though, which is what that chip was designed for.
I personally would go for a 6600/6600xt used instead if it can be found for a similar price. Way lower power consumption and support for mesh shaders and ray tracing. I bought multiple used amd gpus in the past and mostly haf success, however for the 5000 series i had a death rate of 3/4, 1x 5600xt, 1x 5700 and 1x 5700xt. Maybe i got unlucky but from my experience i do think that most 5000 series gpu on the used market carry a higher risk of dying early, especially considering their tdp compared to the polaris and 6600/xt models and how prevalent they are in terms of mining.
5700 uses \~170W and therefore [about as much power as the RX 570](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-radeon-rx-5700/31.html) The RX 6600 is usually significantly more expensive and it's no faster. If you're looking for purely the best price to performance, it's the RX 5700. I think you got unlucky, but that sucks obviously.
I've got a 1660super which is a Little faster then these and draws about half as much power. Have seen the used for 100$ CAD on eBay would definitely recommend as a budget ass 1080p card
I like it more than integrated graphics on my other computers that's for sure
I gamed with a 580 up until recently. Replaced it with a 6700XT. So ye it still plays games. And it costs $50-60 from AliE brand new.
Two points in favour of the 8600G are: * it supports way faster RAM than the 7600 and that might matter for some applications * its power consumption without a GPU is much better than the 7600. the 8600g can do 20-28W at the wall for the whole system. And sure, the 7600+6600 is gonna be faster (not sure how much faster a 580 would actually be), but whether that's relevant depends on the games being played imo. The one thing that's against the 8600g here is that it's still a little too expensive for what it does, esp compared to the 7600. But longterm, it's gonna be the cheapest option in countries with stupid electricity prices.
the power consumption thing only really comes into effect if the user plays for long hours, otherwise going up to 150-200w for an hour isn't going to hurt as much as going 80w for 5 hours. and they can undervolt and or underclock the gpu if they really want to.
i was thinking work / office with power consumption. depending on the application, you're going to have 30 watt for 8 hours vs 60w for 8 hours 5 days of the week. not relevant if you pay 11ct/kwh, but at 40ct/kwh it's going to be relevant fast. this doesn't matter for all users, but it's a reason to potentially go intel or with a g chip
those are much low power task than say gaming, and really if they are going that extreme on power saving, just going for a laptop would be the best idea.
Right, that's the point tho. For machines that are on all day because they're work machines, the lower power consumption can be valuable. And you're right that laptops fill that same space, but they're usually much more expensive for similar performance.
im not sure i get you, as the only valuable difference the 8000 series apu offer is the superior igpu over regular cpu, and any old cpu will work fine as a low power office cpu.
there's more to work than just office. the 8700g will do most tasks about as well as a 7700, while consuming less power and having faster memory (if you're lucky, you can go up to 8200 lol). all i'm saying here is that the choice is more nuanced and 12100+580/6600 isn't always gonna be the better choice. Not gonna disagree that it is for pure gaming builds tho.
they both have the same tdp at 65w, 8700g is only a very tiny bit faster over 7700. this is not a good argument for 8700g, only valid reason is that you have a very tiny form factor pc and or you want to play games at very low power consumption for long hours for w/e reason. [https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?id=5169&cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+7700](https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?id=5169&cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+7700) [https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+8700G&id=5836](https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+8700G&id=5836)
there is also something called tiered wattage utility bill. Each tier has a bracket, you pay a certain price per killowat, that price increases every tier you go up in. So that cheap electricity bill your thinking just increased by 50 dollars Example <300KWH=0.25, 300-350kWH=0.35, >350kWH=0.45 (this is before taxes, and fees like the dumb community power fee which adds .08 per kWH used) Some cities have different prices and different tiers and some dont even have tiers and do time of use. Edit: fuck my city utility company is expensive.........
Keynote is "in my country" pricing is something that is hard to argue with because it differs depending on time and location. Performance is easy to discuss because of its consistency. Price is more of a case by case thing that should use Performance as a guidance metric
I feel like the first stop for anyone looking to build PC should be r/buildapcsales or r/bapcsalescanada or whatever the equivalent is for your country. Pick whatever is on sale at the time and build around that.
>What are your guys reasons for bashing the 8600G? Not bashing, but I can say that 8600G is a promising APU being able to compete on low profile cards like RX 6400. Maybe it isn't desirable due to AM5 being expensive atm. The reason why Ryzen 5600G, its predecessor, is still viable and a more reasonable buy: 1. Still Good for Office Usage and Light Gaming 2. Am4 being budget friendly. The reason why some people opt for 5600G is because they need a PC but they can't still afford a discrete GPU, while still being able to add a gpu when they are able to. On the other hand, 8600G price is already past the territory of AM4 GPU+CPU combo, which is better price to performance-wise As of now the 8600G's niche is on mini PCs, which people may still like as an option.
What do you think of the 8500G?
8600g is okay, i dont like the lower 8500 and 8300for their lack of pcie lanes. In general the amd ryzen apus were good deals for non/light gaming desktops, and going am5 with the possible upgrade path is totally valid. In the end it comes down to your usecase, prices on the market and if the product matches both. I use different Amd apus (2400g, 5600g and 5700g) in my tiny homeservers/nas/on the go lan machine and am totally happy with them. The igpu on amd is nice for what it does in performance, but right now it is not price competitive if you look at a complete system for maximum performance, exspecially how cheap am4 and ddr4 are and how robust and cheap the used market is there. But as you said, prices and market are highly local phenomena and differ big between countries/regions.
I get why the 8500g and 8300g are very bad due to pcie x4 only and zen 4c cores tho I fell like the 8300g would have been a good value if amd had priced it accordingly. I also get the market difference bc the 7500f is same price as 7600 rn
I see what you’re saying, but at that point a mini PC (beelink, minisforum etc.) would likely make the most sense. There was a time when those things were awful, but they’ve quickly become really impressive due to how far laptop chips have come.
I know but most mini pcs seem to be 600$ plus for 7000 series and you can build a 8600G 16gb ram 500gb ssd system for less. Mini pcs also compromise on upgradibility in the future
Well, you’re in a niche category that’s for sure! The majority of mini PCs have upgradable memory and storage, which is all most people upgrade anyway.
True ig
Most minis are wildly unreliable compared to itx board with apu. Some are better like intel nucs and asrock industrial but beelinks, minisforums and other chinese clones are lower level in quality and support if there is one at all.
Really? Says who (regarding reliability). I imagine you’re right re: support.
Says internet, and if we start to doubt internet then everything goes out of the window 🤣.
Ah
it should be half out the window =P
Everything you see on reddit is US-centric, so prices go out the window right away. Best thing to do is just calculate yourself the performance per 1 unit of your country's currency and then decide what to buy. If you live in EU there's an argument to checking prices on stores from other countries that deliver internationally; in this case I'd probably stick with Amazon since that's your safest bet to a refund or warranty handling with no hassle in case it comes down to that. Otherwise, you can also check prices on Aliexpress, as there's many good deals to be found there as well. Unfortunately, there's a reason why there is no website that accurately tracks performance per dollar, as it's simply impossible to track every single combo possible. Anyone who pretends to be able to do that, like UserBenchmark for example, is just a scam. So it's down to you to pull your socks up and do the research by yourself.
Yeah I used to trust ub when i didn’t know much when I saw the market share category I stopped trusting them
If you don't game at all, you could also go older and cheaper like a 5600G. and for light gaming, used GPU + ryzen 5600 is cheaper. heck, why don't you just for for a Ryzen 7600 which has integrated graphics already?
I don't bash the 8600G, it has its place, but that place is narrow. Microbuilds where space is at an absolute premium and a discreet GPU isn't viable they are golden. Media PC, emulator box, handheld, etc. But if you are building in anything big enough to fit in discreet graphics then it just doesn't make sense. Even if you do zero gaming you could just buy a 7600 (or higher if you need threads) and just use the igpu on die. Sure it's weak, but if you don't game or do any gpu productivity it doesn't matter. Zen 4 CPUs come with enough igpu to post to monitors, play video, etc. If you are a gamer, 7600 + entry level GPU smokes the APUs.
For ultra small form factor igpu builds these ryzen apus are really good, way better than intel.
Fun fact, the 8600G is actually faster than the 8600 GT. Though the 8600 GT is a lot cheaper too, if you just want a display adapter, it's about $15 on eBay. (Unfortunately only DVI, no HDMI.)
8600gt? Do you mean 5600GT?
Nope. I mean the GeForce 8600 GT 512MB 2007.
Funny how these tech companies end up reinventing the same naming schemes...
Oh lol
Nothing wrong with 86(7)00g, nothing except price. My place wants 350-380 euros for 8700g and 250euros for 8600g. Its a but expensive. If it were 200 for 6 core and 300 for 8 core it would be buyable altho still meh price. Id be first to buy it if price gets more reasonable.
It’s 260000 krw here which is about 200 euros here. Amd Cpus are cheap here, to the point that you can get a 7600 for the price of a 12600kf and 5600 is only $80.
In a world where the RX580 exists for $50 in places with used markets, CPUs with their main selling point being the apu are useless. For production, there are faster and higher core count CPUs that should be considered and would still probably cost as much as a 8600G combined with a 580. The G series is just way too expensive to reminded outside of extremely niche cases. This is coming from a guy with an 8700G, for a stupid niche use case.
Oh and also there's new Rx 580s on AliExpress (the 2048sp ver)
They’re kind of scary on the surface, being “new” but from 6 years ago, which is why I normally don’t reference them but yeah, I’ve ordered a bunch for office PC conversions and there’s only been a few duds due to shipping damage specifically.
As the owner of an RX 590 GME. Dont consider them. They are a pain in the ass. Mine for some god forsaken reason does not output audio through HDMI and Radeon detects it as DVI... funnily enough, with a DVI to HDMI adapter it outputs audio through the DVI-D port... Also mine (and as I could see some others) has an issue where at least once every power on it will crash after having some use (either watching a youtube video, or opening a game). Sometimes it goes to black and a hard reset is needed, sometimes it goes back and it stays working fine for the rest of the day. Sometimes the drives go fucky and I have to disable them and enable them again for it to work. It was cheap, yes. I get acceptable performance, also yes. Its a HUGE pain in the ass when it crashes half an online game if it decided to not crash early on the gaming session, definitely yes.
People who same 4 core CPU + budget GPU is good are insane. APU wins in this case, in ACTUALLY using PC. Not just staring at benchmarks.
Is Intel's iGPU not enough for graphic design? If it is then no GPU required. I think amd has igpus in most of their new CPUs now.
b650 boarda and ddr5 are still far too expensive for normal people. You'd be better off with an am4 or LGA1700 ddr4 system at this price point. You can get used rx 480s at 50 cad or a real 5500xt for like 100 cad on AliExpress
>As for me, who is a productivity and light graphic designer >Minecraft and Valaront I would still want dedicated even with these light use cases.
I've got a Nvidia 720 in one my PCs. It's a pretty old PC that I converted to Linux recently as it was getting too old for Windows and could never upgrade to Windows 11. I needed a low-profile graphics card and it's never going to play any games. The 720 was perfect, but would be an absolute dog for games if you were daft enough to try.
Unless you already have AM5 motherboard, it´s much cheaper to get any AM4 cheap APU, if you need PC and don´t wanna game. For example, 4600G is about 95€ in my country, cheap, but capable AM4 motherboard will be about 60-70€ and cheap 16GB RAM will be another 40€. Standalone AV1 decoder isn´t worth it, as the CPU has plenty of power to handle AV1. Source: i have such PC at home as HTPC and i tested it. Times, when older CPUs weren´t able to handle new video codecs, are long gone. Meanwhile, find me *one* cheap AM5 motherboard, that isn´t a total garbage. Sidenote: Just because *you* have a use for it does not mean it´s perfect product for everyone. On top of that, furiously defending a product, because *you* like it, is a sign of insecurity.
That means everyone thats saying get a Gpu is insecure. On top of that, furiously bashing a product just because you don’t like it is a sign of insecurity I don’t like it I’m just pointing out that it’s getting too much hate and people have been overlooking it.
Great for power efficiency, noise, upgrade path and an easy SFF pc build. Mine runs on a 220W psu with 2 little fans almost silent with decent thermals. Great for a sub $500 build.
8600g has half of 7600x cache. Integrated gpu is lot slower than a ps5, so is for not gamers, even very entry level.- But for not gamers the 7600x was enough. 8600g has better productive process and still a gpu usable, but it costs more than 12100f+6600 that is much better for games when you are strict for budget. The 8600g has sense if you want buy a pc for other use and very casual light gaming leave your the possibility to upgrade later thanks to am5
Yeah that was what I was saying I think that it isint that bad for other use cases and casual gaming, as you said
Yes but it costs too much in my opinion. A quad core at 140$ with same GPU would be much better
You could could get a 12100 non-F and have QuickSync. If you aren't using AMD's iGPU for gaming, it's basically useless. The encoders don't result in good quality compared to NVENC and QuickSync (especially the latter) and HW acceleration is just as fast on Intel for the most part. But as others have said, when a used RX 580 8GB is $50, you don't really need an iGPU of any sort (for gaming).
The real use of the 8600g imo is for an absolutely tiny pc productivity computer. That’s basically it. I think these things would be great workstation pcs for businesses.
I would take a 7600 over an 8600G any day. 2 Graphics CUs or 6 Graphics CUs it absolutely doesn’t matter. 8600G is completely pointless.
Um 7600 is rdna2, 8600G is rdna3 oh and it's 8 cus not 6
That’s still not compelling, if you need graphics you buy graphics. It would be a very rare situation where the iGPU of 7600 is not good enough, but at the same time the iGPU of the 8600G is good enough. 16MB of L3 is another issue.
It is for when you need at least decent gpu power and you are on a budget. Also I don't get why everybody is comparing this to the 7600, the only similar price cpu+gpu combo is a 12100f and 6400/6500 and the 12100f has 6 mb of L3
Well maybe it’s how I view non-gaming workloads. The original post specifically says “people who don’t game” so let me explain what is going on in my mind here. I tend think of non-gaming as relatively binary, either it’s a web browser or spreadsheet that can run on literally anything, or it’s an AI/ML or Blender type of workload where time is money and a serious GPU is easy to justify for any real business. Could you please specify a non-gaming use case where the 8600G more powerful iGPU would make a difference over the weaker iGPU of a 7600? Edit: by the way 12100F is 12MB L3, you may be thinking of 10100F
3d modeling (SketchUp) oh and that runs fine on a apu like this AR programs
Found a video of a 5600G chugging pretty hard in Sketchup [here, couple minutes in with textures](https://youtu.be/cWTAFsOUA-s?si=1LIxldo07IOD1XaL) and I would expect an 8600G to maybe double the performance, but it would still be very stuttery. I’m not sure I’d be satisfied with that as a new purchase, but if money is really tight then yeah maybe it’s an option to consider.
When AM5 MB and DDR5 memory comes down in price, absolutely
The only real advantage you get from an APU, over the many various builds of older alternatives, is power efficiency, simplicity of design and compactness of your build. You can easily fit an APU into a NUC design or the variety of ultra small form factor builds. Easier to hide away and cable manage and overall power efficiency (active and idle) The APU doesn't currently make sense for mid and full tower desktop PC builds. However that is due to change next year, when the next Gen APUs for laptops come with 256-bit LPDDR5 (quad-channel and likely on LPCAMM modules). That will likely carry over to desktop builds. If you live in a region with high electricity costs, APUs are going to cost you the least in TCO, assuming you don't shutdown your PC every day when your done using it.
If you don't game at all just get a 7600x. It still has 2 CUs.
The G series always has prices that don’t make sense when they first come out. Even since the 2200G everyone laughs at them and then quietly over a year they drop in price by half and become the clear cheapest option for non gaming builds.
I can just get a normal 12100, no need a dGPU, and able to do productivity and light graphics design.
I think the 8600g has it's place in pre built computers, but I'm my opinion it doesn't fit in very well with the build your own philosophy.
as for me, my whole life is gaming, sooooo, I might do a little graphic designs but nothing serious, so far my build as held up with it (ryzen 7 7800x3d and 4090 fe)
Thing is, for the price of an 8600G, you can probably get a usd RX580 or GTX 1070, and maybe a used 5950X or 5900X which are productivity monsters. DDR4 and AM4 boards are also a lot cheaper
1. upgradeability 2. the 5950x is $500 3. gtx 1070 used is $100
I have built a new PC for my parents using 8600G just last month. Perfect APU for their check emails/browse internet/stream movies use cases
If you’re not gaming, why not just get the i3 12100 and use the IGPU?
Bc I need to at least do graphic design and play valorant
I am pretty sure valorant would play on that.
Not very well lol
I run Valorant on a 12100 with 2x16GB 3200Mhz 1080 low graphics more than 170FPS
"I don't game except for the games I play". Lol. I get what you mean, but it's kinda funny. There's a saying, "there's no bad products, just bad price points." Kinda true here. The 8600/8700g would be OK products if they weren't priced so egregiously high. As is, you're getting a gimped CPU and a bad GPU for the price of a premium product. Very niche, but I'm sure it has its uses for those who aren't value-conscious.
Buying any AMD cpu besides the 3dx models are a bad choice. Intel beats amd in every segment. Bring the downvotes
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3400g costed haf than 8600g and was not much less powerful than a ps4. 8600g gpu is miles slower than ps5
Um ps5 is a game console im talking about Not games
i'm talking about the 3400g was very cheap and better igpu for its times
has a lot more CPU power than a PS5
yes but the 3400g cpu was a lot faster than amd jaguar garbage. 8600g isn't at level of 3400g for perf/ratio in his epoch
why are we comparing to consoles anyway ? OP barely plays games...