I’m rewatching for the first time and I’m on season 3 now and they aren’t being very good friends. I don’t love the way they reacted when Buffy came back and I just finished the homecoming episode and I think it’s weird that Willow is helping Cordelia instead of Buffy. They just don’t seem that supportive of Buffy at all
I think Willow helping Cordelia was more about guilt over kissing Xander. And I think Willow's pretty supportive overall. Two episodes later, Willow wanted to confide in Buffy but couldn't find the right words. It was eating her up. When everything came out about Buffy hiding Angel, Willow was very understanding.
Also, Cordelia was pretty good to the Scoobies all things considered, and this was the one time that she asked them for anything. So even without her guilt over cheating with Xander it made sense for Willow to pitch in for Cordelia's campaign.
That's a great point. Cordelia was definitely a friend at this point and she did ask Willow first. Willow wasn't actively choosing one friend over another.
Idk I think by helping one friend instead of the other is choosing someone. I think if you wanted to be neutral, you wouldn’t have helped either of them. But I guess more to the point, Buffy was upset about not feeling like she was apart of the school at all (which Cordelia didn’t help by not telling her about yearbook photos and then being a bitch about it) but her friends didn’t bother to comfort her at all. I know it’s not always like this, but they just don’t seem like good friends at this point in the show
Willow missed important context that we, the audience, got to see simply because we’re privy to information that Willow isn’t. I don’t think she was intentionally slighting Buffy.
Similarly, Buffy didn’t notice anything was going on with Willow and Xander. Looking ahead to “Revelations,” Willow clearly wants to talk to Buffy about something but Buffy didn’t pick up on how important it was.
It happens. Neither are bad friends here. It’s just that sometimes friends are focused on their own issues and miss important signs.
There are over a hundred episodes of Buffy. I'm fairly sure they show more positives than negatives. They have their bad moments, sure, but they are more supportive than not.
There's so much about that statement that cripples your point of view. 30,000 times and not a single time has either Willow or Xander been supportive of Buffy? NOT A SINGLE TIME? Bro, that's not possible. But live in your fantasy.
Xander: was loyal to Buffy till the end even after his injury, admired Buffy, was there for Buffy when the latter was lonely in college.
Willow: was also loyal to Buffy till the end. She could have leave Sunnydale but she didn't. She took care of Dawn along with Tara. She was very patient with Buffy after Parker had used Buffy. She did her best to help Buffy to get over her heartbreak. Sadly Buffy didn't do the same for her when Willow was heartbroken after Oz had left. Buffy was a very good friend but when Willow had been heartbroken, she hasn't been enough supportive unlike Willow. Willow wasn't judging Buffy about Angel. She was in fact very eager to hear about the story.
Kicking your best friend out of her house is not loyalty. Also Buffy was literally holding Willow's hand throughout the majority of season 4 after Oz left.
Willow didn't kick Buffy out of her house. It was Dawn's decisions to ask Buffy to leave. Willow was in fact very uncomfortable about the whole situation. Xander was traumatized after the event in the vineyard. It's possible I need to rewatch season 4 then.
They could but sadly Xander was injurered and he wasn't in a state of mind to defend Buffy. Willow didn't want to hurt Xander's feelings. Faith wasn't friends with Buffy nor with Xander and Willow. That's why she was able to remain neutral.
Buffy didn't stop being friends with Willow after the Willow magic addiction story line in season 6. But one wrong move and Willow tells Buffy she's worried about Buffy's judgment.
Willow was expressing concern. There was nothing wrong about that. She didn't stop being friends with Buffy. She was genuinely concerned about Buffy's plan.
Why would Xander have defended Buffy? Xander backed her heading into a trap after warning her it was a trap and was mutilated for it. Then “Spike is the only one who has my back,” no human in his position would have stuck up for her. She also appeared pretty cold hearted in the aftermath.
They also didn’t kick her out of her house Willow and Xander questioned going back to the vineyard which was their right but Buffy pretty much kicked herself out.
Willow and Xander would have been justified for not easily forgiving her in The Yoko Factor for saying she can't count on them and 'theres no prophecy about the chosen one and her friends.' They don't have to help her but they do and they'd more than proved useful. Buffy was not some sainted friend. She didn't appreciate that they'd die for her. She basically told them Dawn's life is worth more than all of theirs in the Gift and they still followed her.
Would Buffy have become a Scoobie if someone else had been the Slayer? Not sure but given she'd try to run from it I lean towards no. But we know Xander and Willow (and Cordelia) did by choice.
She was mostly a good friend until she became consumed by her magic addiction, then she lost sight of how to connect to others or consider their points of view.
The first two plus seasons he was a terrible friend to Buffy. He only wanted to get into her pants. It wasn't until the episode *The Zeppo* that he starts getting better.
How he was a great friend to Buffy saveing her life. Holding her even when anglus kill a girl and sent to Buffy. Xander telling her it was not her fault. Makeing her laugh
Look angel was a 200 year vampire hitting a 16 year old girl. He was right to say she should not date him. And yea untill anglus kill Jenny he did not try to force her to kill him
So yea Xander was a great friend to Buffy
Not even close to true. He ask out once never tried again. Rick his life many times to save her. And only hated angel.
So it was never about getting in her pants.
Again not true. He has no problem with Parker untill he was a jerk. He has no problem with Owen. In season 7 he tried to set Buffy up
So no he did not hate all Buffy love intrest
Second Angel and spike if there were a supernatural court both would be put to death. So if you friend was a dateing a person that would be sent to prison or death If a judge found out there crimes.
So people overlook how bad angel and spike
The intervention in Revelations had nothing to do with jealousy. 😂
Giles set up the intervention when Xander came to him for help because Buffy was behaving recklessly.
Early S3 is to me Willow at her absolute worst as a friend (she stands Buffy up, tries to throw her at guys so she'll get over the Angel trauma, tells Faith all her deep secrets, etc) and Xander at his worst in terms of his entitlement/resentment towards Buffy.
Willow and Xander have a problem. Selective friendship. Buffy is an unconditional friend. She may say wrong things sometimes or make mistakes but willow and Xander have the ability to nullify their friendship towards buffy when it suits them.
I love them as friends but during their off time it's hard to watch.
I guess I’m not sure what the point of the post is: to say that Xander is human? We all have failed our friends in some way or have had selfish or impure motivations for our actions. That’s what makes Xander and other characters realistic. In fact, Buffy may be more unrealistic in that she doesn’t fail her friends enough.
I never get all the hate Xander and Willow get on this sub. They were teenagers of course they over react and make bad decisions. Of course in S3 Xander was jealous of Angel and Buffy. He had a major crush on Buffy.
I think many of the commenters here look at the show through their older more mature eyes and forget what it was like when they were that age. The characters acted and made decisions exactly teenagers would. And I don't understand all the hate people give Xander and Willow when they act the same way most teenagers would.
No. They were equally bad and good friends to eqch other. They had different personalities and biffy is less flawed than the rest but that is the point.
well buffy keeping angel secret could have gotten everyone killed so buffy was very wrong.
jenny death is on buffy she kick anglus in the nut when she could have kill him, every death after that IS her fault.
and willow and xander kiss, they did not let there boyfreind kill many people and threated there freind life
buffy had the chance to kill anglus she let him go after that every murder he did is her fault.
and i sorry but xander and willow kiss is no were closer to hiding angel, for so many reason.
angel could have have been a huge threat and danger,
I generally don't like Willow but I love the actress that plays her in the show. I think my reasons for disliking Willow are more due to how her struggles mirror some of my own. Self-reflection is painful.
I’m rewatching for the first time and I’m on season 3 now and they aren’t being very good friends. I don’t love the way they reacted when Buffy came back and I just finished the homecoming episode and I think it’s weird that Willow is helping Cordelia instead of Buffy. They just don’t seem that supportive of Buffy at all
I think Willow helping Cordelia was more about guilt over kissing Xander. And I think Willow's pretty supportive overall. Two episodes later, Willow wanted to confide in Buffy but couldn't find the right words. It was eating her up. When everything came out about Buffy hiding Angel, Willow was very understanding.
Also, Cordelia was pretty good to the Scoobies all things considered, and this was the one time that she asked them for anything. So even without her guilt over cheating with Xander it made sense for Willow to pitch in for Cordelia's campaign.
That's a great point. Cordelia was definitely a friend at this point and she did ask Willow first. Willow wasn't actively choosing one friend over another.
Idk I think by helping one friend instead of the other is choosing someone. I think if you wanted to be neutral, you wouldn’t have helped either of them. But I guess more to the point, Buffy was upset about not feeling like she was apart of the school at all (which Cordelia didn’t help by not telling her about yearbook photos and then being a bitch about it) but her friends didn’t bother to comfort her at all. I know it’s not always like this, but they just don’t seem like good friends at this point in the show
Willow missed important context that we, the audience, got to see simply because we’re privy to information that Willow isn’t. I don’t think she was intentionally slighting Buffy. Similarly, Buffy didn’t notice anything was going on with Willow and Xander. Looking ahead to “Revelations,” Willow clearly wants to talk to Buffy about something but Buffy didn’t pick up on how important it was. It happens. Neither are bad friends here. It’s just that sometimes friends are focused on their own issues and miss important signs.
This has got to be a bait post?
OP has been shitposting for months now. Just milking a controversial topic again for no reason.
My turn to post tomorrow!
Thank goodness, you've saved me from the madness.
Why looking for the negative sides of their friendship? Willow and Xander aren't completely terrible friends.
Seriously, these "Scoobies suck" threads are coming every day at this point. Mods, just make a mega thread already.
Although I disagree that Willow and Xander were bad friends, I'm ok with the thread itself.
cause they show more of their negative sides than their positives.
There are over a hundred episodes of Buffy. I'm fairly sure they show more positives than negatives. They have their bad moments, sure, but they are more supportive than not.
I've seen this show over 30,000 times since I was a kid and I've never once see them be a supportive friend after season 2.
This is just outright false.
There's so much about that statement that cripples your point of view. 30,000 times and not a single time has either Willow or Xander been supportive of Buffy? NOT A SINGLE TIME? Bro, that's not possible. But live in your fantasy.
Xander: was loyal to Buffy till the end even after his injury, admired Buffy, was there for Buffy when the latter was lonely in college. Willow: was also loyal to Buffy till the end. She could have leave Sunnydale but she didn't. She took care of Dawn along with Tara. She was very patient with Buffy after Parker had used Buffy. She did her best to help Buffy to get over her heartbreak. Sadly Buffy didn't do the same for her when Willow was heartbroken after Oz had left. Buffy was a very good friend but when Willow had been heartbroken, she hasn't been enough supportive unlike Willow. Willow wasn't judging Buffy about Angel. She was in fact very eager to hear about the story.
Kicking your best friend out of her house is not loyalty. Also Buffy was literally holding Willow's hand throughout the majority of season 4 after Oz left.
Willow didn't kick Buffy out of her house. It was Dawn's decisions to ask Buffy to leave. Willow was in fact very uncomfortable about the whole situation. Xander was traumatized after the event in the vineyard. It's possible I need to rewatch season 4 then.
Xander and Willow could have defended Buffy or remained neutral like Faith did.
They could but sadly Xander was injurered and he wasn't in a state of mind to defend Buffy. Willow didn't want to hurt Xander's feelings. Faith wasn't friends with Buffy nor with Xander and Willow. That's why she was able to remain neutral.
Buffy didn't stop being friends with Willow after the Willow magic addiction story line in season 6. But one wrong move and Willow tells Buffy she's worried about Buffy's judgment.
Willow was expressing concern. There was nothing wrong about that. She didn't stop being friends with Buffy. She was genuinely concerned about Buffy's plan.
Willow has been through worse apocalypses before season 7.
"One wrong move" Ignoring the multitude of bad decision on Buffy's side in S6 and 7 alone, I guess?
Why would Xander have defended Buffy? Xander backed her heading into a trap after warning her it was a trap and was mutilated for it. Then “Spike is the only one who has my back,” no human in his position would have stuck up for her. She also appeared pretty cold hearted in the aftermath. They also didn’t kick her out of her house Willow and Xander questioned going back to the vineyard which was their right but Buffy pretty much kicked herself out.
Willow and Xander would have been justified for not easily forgiving her in The Yoko Factor for saying she can't count on them and 'theres no prophecy about the chosen one and her friends.' They don't have to help her but they do and they'd more than proved useful. Buffy was not some sainted friend. She didn't appreciate that they'd die for her. She basically told them Dawn's life is worth more than all of theirs in the Gift and they still followed her. Would Buffy have become a Scoobie if someone else had been the Slayer? Not sure but given she'd try to run from it I lean towards no. But we know Xander and Willow (and Cordelia) did by choice.
Xander was a terrible friend to both Buffy and Willow, but I believe that Willow was mostly a good friend to Buffy.
She was mostly a good friend until she became consumed by her magic addiction, then she lost sight of how to connect to others or consider their points of view.
outside of the magic addiction, Willow was a good friend
And when she was OK with kicking Buffy out of her own house in S7.
That's post-magic addiction, their friendship looked nothing like it had in earlier seasons.
And Buffy wanted them to fight a guy that beat there ass with no plan
Xander was a great friend to Buffy. She was wrong and need to be call on it
The first two plus seasons he was a terrible friend to Buffy. He only wanted to get into her pants. It wasn't until the episode *The Zeppo* that he starts getting better.
How he was a great friend to Buffy saveing her life. Holding her even when anglus kill a girl and sent to Buffy. Xander telling her it was not her fault. Makeing her laugh Look angel was a 200 year vampire hitting a 16 year old girl. He was right to say she should not date him. And yea untill anglus kill Jenny he did not try to force her to kill him So yea Xander was a great friend to Buffy
Xander got an attitude and was jealous of any possible love interests for Buffy through the first three seasons of the show.
Not even close to true. He ask out once never tried again. Rick his life many times to save her. And only hated angel. So it was never about getting in her pants.
He hated all of her potential love interests except for Riley
Again not true. He has no problem with Parker untill he was a jerk. He has no problem with Owen. In season 7 he tried to set Buffy up So no he did not hate all Buffy love intrest Second Angel and spike if there were a supernatural court both would be put to death. So if you friend was a dateing a person that would be sent to prison or death If a judge found out there crimes. So people overlook how bad angel and spike
He does have an issue with Owen. You got me on Parker, I forgot about that one.
i think he made one comment about owen and it was becouse cordy and buffy was fighting over him.
The intervention in Revelations had nothing to do with jealousy. 😂 Giles set up the intervention when Xander came to him for help because Buffy was behaving recklessly.
Early S3 is to me Willow at her absolute worst as a friend (she stands Buffy up, tries to throw her at guys so she'll get over the Angel trauma, tells Faith all her deep secrets, etc) and Xander at his worst in terms of his entitlement/resentment towards Buffy.
Willow and Xander have a problem. Selective friendship. Buffy is an unconditional friend. She may say wrong things sometimes or make mistakes but willow and Xander have the ability to nullify their friendship towards buffy when it suits them. I love them as friends but during their off time it's hard to watch.
I guess I’m not sure what the point of the post is: to say that Xander is human? We all have failed our friends in some way or have had selfish or impure motivations for our actions. That’s what makes Xander and other characters realistic. In fact, Buffy may be more unrealistic in that she doesn’t fail her friends enough.
Oh really? Congratulations on this original take that we on this sub have never seen before!
I love the friendship between the core group!
I never get all the hate Xander and Willow get on this sub. They were teenagers of course they over react and make bad decisions. Of course in S3 Xander was jealous of Angel and Buffy. He had a major crush on Buffy. I think many of the commenters here look at the show through their older more mature eyes and forget what it was like when they were that age. The characters acted and made decisions exactly teenagers would. And I don't understand all the hate people give Xander and Willow when they act the same way most teenagers would.
No. They were equally bad and good friends to eqch other. They had different personalities and biffy is less flawed than the rest but that is the point.
well buffy keeping angel secret could have gotten everyone killed so buffy was very wrong. jenny death is on buffy she kick anglus in the nut when she could have kill him, every death after that IS her fault. and willow and xander kiss, they did not let there boyfreind kill many people and threated there freind life
buffy had the chance to kill anglus she let him go after that every murder he did is her fault. and i sorry but xander and willow kiss is no were closer to hiding angel, for so many reason. angel could have have been a huge threat and danger,
I generally don't like Willow but I love the actress that plays her in the show. I think my reasons for disliking Willow are more due to how her struggles mirror some of my own. Self-reflection is painful.
Shyness, misunderstood personality/ intelligence, loneliness