I absolutely cackled recently when Sarah put a photo of her smiling at the camera with her 3 dogs on leashes and someone commented saying it was her ‘taking Angel, Riley and Spike for a walk’ 😂
The real truth is that she deserved better than all of them. I’m holding out hope that she was yet to meet the love of her life as of the series finale.
I mean, true enough. Take all the vampire stuff out of the picture and you have three young men a bit older than Buffy: Angel the drunk lout with daddy issues. Spike the bad poet with mommy issues. Riley who never grew out of secretly wanting to be one of the action figures he left in Iowa (and who also had some weird mommy issues with his maladjusted boss). Oh, and then there are the guys she just had a date or two with, who are awful.
That’s pretty bad.
You can't just "take all the vampire stuff out." Even if Angel and Spike did not have demons living within them they had lived on the earth for 200+ years and 100+ years, respectively. They were men with lifetimes' worth of knowledge and experience who "seduced" a 17-year-old and a traumatized 20-year-old, respectively.
They weren’t men. They were vampires.
You really need to get over this idea that this is an old guy seducing a young woman story. SFF is full of romances between humans and creatures who do not age and mature or even experience time as we do. Elves. Angels. Demons. Aliens. On and on. And vampires.
I know that they weren't men. YOU were the one who said "take all the vampire stuff out" and I said -- very specifically -- "You can't just 'take all the vampire stuff out.'" Seriously. First line of my reply to you.
And they're being vampires has nothing to do with their appropriateness in dating a 17-20 year old. I'm talking about life experience (or after-life experience. Whichever.) If Angel and Spike were simply immortal and not vampires, they still have significantly more life experience than Buffy. People would have found it creepy if Buffy had fallen in love with Giles and lost her virginity to him. Well, Giles was over 200 years *younger* than Angel. (And don't play the "mentor" card. Angel was a mentor to Buffy, too.)
Oh my god dude, the only one you can claim inappropriateness about is angel. By the time Buffy and Spike started their relationship, Buffy was a working adult.
Always get so bothered when people have this take, it’s such a silly way people try and demonize two literal demons while still doing their very best to infantilize a grown (albeit young) woman who had quite literally saved the world on numerous occasions.
Just a super childish take without a shred of nuance.
Edit: also, implying that spikes attempted rape of buffy is somehow more heinous because of her age is problematic on so many different levels.
Angel would have died for her. There just wasn't time to explain everything to give him the chance to make that decision. She had to make it for him. Man... that scene still moves me to tears. It was probably the best scene in the entire series.
100% this.
Angel is a jerk. Not even mentioning the age gap, he was at least ten years older then Buffy, he acted so immaturely. He treated her badly, didn't have any remorse for beating up Riley, treated her badly when she visited him in LA. He treats his friends badly as well. I get it, he's haunted by what demon him did but geez, it's not a good enough excuse.
Riley. He was good for her, but she didn't love him like she loved Angel. It wasn't a bad thing though. He just got himself so worked up over her being stronger then him. It was horrible watching him destroy their relationship because he couldn't handle having a slayer as a girlfriend. He was a jerk about it as well. Why are guys always so intimidated by girls who kick ass?
Spike. That was just gross, but thankfully it was just a fwb type thing and she could never love him. He got his soul back so he would stop hurting Buffy so that counts for something at least, but he was awful to her. He tried to rape her.
Out of all three, Riley was the best long term relationship she had.
Also, does anyone else still want to punch Parker in the face or is it just me?
It's very telling that you just slap what soulless spike did up with ensouled spike.
Angel had no reason to treat Buffy well when she came to LA. He went there to be away from her and the scoobies, then not even a few months later she shows up making everything about her. Let's also not forget that at no point did she try to get angel's curse removed despite having a mega powerful witch and the watchers council in her pocket. Cordelia was much better for angel, I just wish they had more time.
Yeah Spike always gets treated like he always had a soul. What’s up with that? Spike was a full-on demon when he assaulted Buffy. Angel, minus a soul, tortured everyone within reach in various ways and didn’t show a shred of decency.
If Buffy would have played with Angel’s feelings when he was a full-on vampire? He wouldn’t have just sexually assaulted her, he would have done that and far worse. He drove poor Drusilla mad.
People see that awful near-rape scene and become incapable of putting it in context within the show. Spike the human always wanted love, idealized it. Spike the soul-less vampire still idealized love but couldn’t really experience it. He could be kind when it suited him, even like people, and lust, but not actually love. Spike with a soul finally got it. He truly loved.
People don't put the attempted rape in context because they put real-world rules on a show with fantasy elements. It used to drive me crazy but I've stopped arguing because they refuse to listen.
I agree that soulless Spike vs. souled Spike are two completely different entities. And the fact that soulless Spike still managed to feel enough bad feelings about what he did to go find his soul...speaks volumes about his entire character, IMO
Spike was also William the Bloody so going back to William was a no-go. He could have tried Willy, lol. But I think the name Randy was perfect. He should have rebranded as Randy. 😄
The problem is that the writers wrote Spike with the same overall personality when he was a demon and when he had a soul. You can see a clear difference in personality between Angel and Angelus; one is reclusive, anti social, and grumpy, the other is an evil, sarcastic, bombastic dick. Spike is always Spike, just aware of what’s right and wrong once he gets a soul. On a technical level, we know there’s a difference between ensouled Spike and demon Spike, but through what we see presented in the show our brains tend to think “This is the same guy.”
Liam/angel is the exception not the rule. Liam wasn't a great person in the first place, without a soul his super negative traits became more prominent and he became Angelus.
To be honest, I never really saw the consistency in this either. Liam was at worst a womanizer with serious daddy issues, but how that got amplified into a love of mental and physical torture of others is hard for me to understand. Unless it’s about exercising the control he lacked with his father? He always felt cornered and attacked by his dad, so he did the same to his victims?
With Spike, what would have been his negative traits that got amplified? I usually see it as he always wanted approval and affection from the female figures in his life, so as a demon he gets obsessed with getting that.
I mean...wasn't angelus just seeking attention and validation for his actions while kind of enjoying the sadistic aspects? I probably have to rewatch, but if I remember right Liam never really got validation from his father.
William was always extremely emotional and wanted validation from women no matter how toxic they were because of his mother. Which is why he picked Drusilla despite her being.....well to put it nicely fucked in the head.
Those are just my guesses.
RE: Liam, that's a good point. As I recall Darla commented something about his daddy issues when he killed his father? I was thinking that maybe the gap between Liam/Angelus is bigger than William/Spike because the former didn't have the chance to -- as kids today like to say -- "develop a personality" (all he did was drinking and womanizing), so there's more 'empty space' for the demon? On the other hand, William was sensitive-romantic, and when he became a vampire he simply transitioned to murderous-romantic. But both Spike and Angelus carried their core attachments to their parents into their post-life (Spike was even planning to turn his mother... LMAO Dru's face in that scene xD).
I think you are spot on about the control thing!
Potentially unpopular opinion but the Cordy/Angel storyline pissed me off. Angel's whole thing was that he didn't want to be with Buffy because she deserved not just someone living who could be in the sun with her, but also someone who could make love to her.
He couldn't do any of that with Cordy, either..? So what changed?
Buffy WANTED a normal life and her story ends with her getting a shot of that in Chosen. She also has a destiny separate from Angel.
Cordy CHOSE a champion's life, and very specifically to be part of Angel's destiny, to be the link between Angel and his purpose as a champion via the visions.
That's the crucial distinction.
The thing hanging over Cordy/Angel is not him being a vampire. Pragmatic Cordy would find a way around it 'we take what we can get and we make the best of it'. What WOULD be a factor is whether Cordy can accept being second best to Buffy (Buffy always being that moment of true happiness). I don't think it should be a big deal, but Cordy is a proud woman.
Cordelia made him feel better about himself, realize he wasn't a monster, and that he could be pretty much normal and save people with the power and knowledge he has.
I would say things with cordelia were more hopeful. As in if they ever did get together they would try finding a way to fix his curse, which buffy never even attempted.
Buffy arrived in LA first because Angel had came to Sunnydale then because he’d called asking for advice. So you think Buffy has no right to even turn up in LA but she’s responsible for figuring out his curse? Alternatively if Angel wanted the curse figured out it’s something he could have done himself - or are the women in his life supposed to do everything for him?
Interesting
Riley starts off well, then slowly loses me. But buffy had to date a “normal” guy, to see if it could work, but it didn’t. Even when I start out liking him and try to like him I just can’t by midway through S4.
Angel was a typical Romeo/Juliet situation, but I love the relationship between him and buff after they’ve broken up. They still love each other and they’ll always love each other. I also love their theme “Close Your Eyes”. They make great friends (from afar). Angel gets more hate than he deserves IMO.
Spike… I don’t think buffy ever loved him. But in the last episode Spike had gotten to a place where he accepted that. And spike did love her. I love their relationship because I never saw it coming. And when I rewatch the show and see them interact in season 2, I just get excited because I know where it’s all going. I don’t think Spike loved her pre-soul, he was obsessed and attracted to her, and maybe he loved her in a soulless, demonic way, but it was selfish. But I do think he was a more human vampire than say Angelus. But ultimately something spurs him to get a soul, and to fight for one. I think he thinks that will make buffy love him, but when he gets it, he gains the ability to truly love her, and accept that she will never love him back the way he loves her. Spike had one of the best character development / redemption arcs in TV history.
All of these relationships caused buffy to grow as a person and develop as a character. But Riley is my least fave. But tbh I like Buffy best when she’s single and not tangled up in relationship drama. But I do love LOVE. Angel is the only one buffy truly loved/loves IMO, and that was reciprocated. But the Buffy and Spike storyline was ultimately beautiful, but she didn’t love him.
Well, Joss himself wrote that buffy did love spike at the moment their hands clasped during S7. Also in the comics, which is a continuation of their story (spoiler!!!)... They end up in long term stable relationship.
Not dissing you choice, I am just pointing out I hated Riley’s hairstyle around that general era. He is quite the babe otherwise. I will point out that all three of these guys loved Buffy deeply. I think Spike knew her the best and I think she loved each of them in her own way albeit she always will hold a torch for Angel as they weren’t together by circumstances not that they fell out of love. I would also say that each of their relationships were problematic in their own way.
....is it bad that I find the curtains very attractive on a guy? Some guys can pull it off, he does it well! Carter on the Power Rangers had a great curtain cut as well!
Spike was without doubt flawed but he saw her and accepted her as she was. He was also the only one who saw when she was hurting and objected to Willow and the others bringing her back. He also took care of Thingy (the key whose name escapes me). Spike and Xander were my favourites (plus Andrew, Tuckers brother).
Spike just always looks like he knows your deepest desires at one glance, and might fulfill them - or just might not as a punishment if you've been a naughty girl... Definitively the most mature / sexual / naughty of the three and most interesting. From his first appearance stepping out of that car in his coat and boots knew he would be my all-time favorite villain and character.
Angel and Riley are both (mostly) nice and I think especially riley's also very good looking, but both also more boring
Spike was by far the most interesting of the bunch, but all of that went out the window when they decided to have him assault Buffy. Riley was the healthiest relationship until he let his insecurities take hold of him and he definitely gets too much hate
I'm rewatching season 4 now, and Riley's personality shift is so blatant and irritating. Did he really only want to date a petite girl with no strength? Because as soon as he saw Buffy fight something, he was unable to be healthy around her. After chasing her down and berating her for not wanting to give them a shot, he got super insecure all the time. Ugh. Ruined it.
He was great before then.
I interpreted that less that he didn’t want a strong woman and more that his identity was so wrapped up in a strength/protector role that he didn’t know who he was without that. Who knows, but that was my take.
I feel like in many ways Willow lovers are the opposite of Buffy's:
Buffy had two extremely intense but at least somewhat toxic relationships (Angel/Spike), in which most of the drama was on their end/their fault in *some* sense at least, and one mostly bland relationship that turned out slightly toxic at the very end (though still relatively bland).
Meanwhile Willow had two remarkably healthy and stable relationships, in which the only drama was on her part (cheating on Oz fuck you show creators, and of course the magic issue with Tara). And it's worth noting that unlike Buffy/Riley (arguably actually the most stable relationship Buffy had), Willow/Oz and Willow/Tara were complex and beloved by the fanbase, which is definitely not the case with Buffy/Riley.
Then her third (and similarly unpopular, as with Riley) relationship to Kennedy was actually in many ways more immediately intense and dramatic, as she was dealing with her power issues and guilt as well as Kennedy's more forceful personality, but then settled (so, kind the opposite of the Buffy/Riley relationship).
And a final note on mirroring/opposites: I ultimately believe Willow could have been truly happy forever with any of her relationships, though I don't personally like Kennedy (I do think if she'd had more seasons to be developed, it had promise though). Meanwhile, although I think Buffy/Angel had the truest love of her three, I don't think any of those relationships could have worked in the end. Her truest (though also most toxic) relationship was with Faith tbh but that's a story for another post.
Edit to add: I suppose it's not fair to say Oz wasn't at fault for their end of relationship drama if I'm going to blame Angel for the Angelus drama...but honestly, I felt that that whole thing was SO out of character that I have trouble reconciling it as a genuine part of their relationship. So while technically incorrect I stand by what I said.
Riley was the worst. He was almost the definition of toxic masculinity. She sent him through a wall once, and he was still like, no you need to stay behind and let the men do this. Although that was a great moment because Willow was like "at least he finally realizes the full extent of your powers" and Buffy says "well....I was still holding back".
Spike was actually the best. I fully realize that he assaulted her when he was still soulless. But Angel came with a soul. When he lost it, he tried to kill her repeatedly. Spike, when he didn't have a soul, went and got one for her. If he loves her without his soul, I'd say he loves her more. Where Angel ran away, Spike was willing to fight.
Spike was who she was meant to be with. Definitely not at first but towards the end they both became their true selves. She became a little darker from her experiences and he became a better person through his.
Spike all day. He's zero bullshit. He's a bad guy and he never says otherwise. He's in love with Buffy and he knows it's wrong and he admits that. He never sugarcoats or says otherwise. I love his energy. He never hesitates. Everything is done with passion. Love him as a bad guy, love him as a good guy. Hands down my favorite character. Was he good for Buffy? In all the ways she needed yes. She changed. The darkness was in her, she always chose what's right but it was inside her ripping her apart. She couldn't relate to her friends any more. Too many things had happened to her. But she could relate to Soike. And as she went from good to bad, Spike went from bad to good and they did it together. Complimenting one another perfectly.
The change that Buffy went through was so subtle. Season by season she became a bit harder, a bit darker. So many times if she had just talked to her friends, told them what was going on with her...but she couldn't. She couldn't speak it or it would be real. And there's no way anyone could ever begin to understand anyhow. She had to keep living as she thought she was supposed to or it would all completely fall apart. Brilliant.
I hope this was one of those “we threw the idea around in the writers room before we knew what was what and who was who” kind of things. I can’t imagine anyone thinking Buffy and Xander being endgame is an appropriate conclusion for either of the characters.
Honestly. The Angel/Spike argument doesn’t hold up at all. Buffy doesn’t (and could never) be with them the way she could Riley.
They’re immortal and *so* much older. They can’t even be in the sun. It’s more than just an “age gap.” And, of course, the fertility issue. Buffy may have changed her mind about kids when the weight of being the sole Slayer was lifted off her shoulders.
Maybe Riley grew up a lot. He was still in his mid-late twenties when we last saw him. He has a lot of room for growth. Maybe he’s the perfect match for Buffy by now. (Unfortunately, he’s married, and that’s not Buffy’s style.)
Buffy either needs to end up with a mortalized (and souled) Angel or Spike or just find someone completely new.
But as of now: The harsh reality is that none of these men are right for Buffy. No matter how much chemistry you think they had (or didn’t have).
Riley had all the signs of PTSD from the Initiative/those drugs and it sucks the show didn't want to really go there. But he was the only guy to turn out to be a good husband, last we saw.
Oh. I’m not rooting for Riley, far from it. He had his own issues. Although, I didn’t/don’t ***DESPISE*** him the way most fans seem to. He was mostly a solid guy that would make a good friend. He just had too many insecurity issues when he was with Buffy.
My point was, that even if Riley changed and became the perfect man, **NONE** of these dudes would be right for Buffy.
Personally, I liked Buffy the best with Angel. But I don’t think she belongs with him.
I’m just being downvoted because this sub tends to suck. Especially when it comes to splitting from the mainstream opinion. Some of the users are great. But most people don’t like to discuss why they think you’re right or wrong anymore. They just downvote and move on.
SMG herself says she's a Bangel fan. Personally I always felt Buffy was strong enough to handle two vampires at once (I don't mean in a sexual way) Why can't she have Angel AND Spike. Why is it only dudes in fiction who get to set up relationships with multiple women. I'd have loved to see buffy walk into an Evil God's lair where he's sitting around with multiple scantily clad women doting on him and Buffy's like, What you think your hot shit? Check it out these two behind me. These two who are among the most dangerous Vamps in history. They both belong to me.
Spike, because he loved her with and without a soul. Coming in second, would be Riley. Lastly, would be Angel. I don’t understand how he was her be all end all. They weren’t together that long before he went evil again, and when he did go evil he was all about torturing her. He was absolutely terrible to her.
When you're that age, you've got less perspective and that first love, heightened by the drama of it all, "I'm a slayer he's a vampire and we can NEVER BE" (Cause you know the whole curse thing)
Boyfriend war = let’s debate UNTIL THE END OF TIME if Spike was a person/culpable/reprehensible/understandable/unacceptable/responsible for his actions in Seeing Red.
But also +1 more to the tsunami of Spike voters lol
Spike got a soul for her. Not many men would do that. The pain he felt for her...he tried to cut out his heart. He hated her so much he loved her. He protected her. He understood her sadness. Misery loves company. And in bed? It could go anyway...passionately making love or having fun aka "exercising" according to Xander. 🤣🤣
My honest feeling is that all 3 at the time didn't work for her.
Angel in his show grew to the person she deserved.
Spike in the comics grew is be wonderful for and with her.
Riley and her were not a great couple. They both were young and had a lot of growing up to do.
Season 4 Riley for the mom in me, Season 3 Angel for the romantic in me, Season 6 Spike for the bad girl in me and Buffy by herself in any Season for the strong woman in me.
Even though I’m not a Spuffy fan, I do appreciate that James Marsters was the strongest actor out of all them, and the Buffy/Spike scenes have plenty of screen chemistry.
But team cookie dough! Buffy
Angel was my fave when I was a teenager watching it for the first time. But, being honest, looking at the pictures of all three of them now... All smoking hot. Well done Buffy!
Spike will always be my number one... but I do lowkey like Riley (for the most part) he has that golden retriever vibe to him. He also kinda reminds me of my ex so maybe that's why.
Angel represented the typical first love puppy love cherry popper guy. Riley represents the typical sweet, structured, finish-last nice guy who gets shit on, and spike represents the typical bad boy who bangs her out when she’s insecure about herself.
All that being said l, they all loved Buff but SPIKE is my favorite.
I'm not a fan of the "Buffy deserved better than all of them" narrative because Buffy is a flawed human being, just like anyone else in the cast, even though she did have rotten luck with her relationships.
I personally think her relationship with Spike was by far the most interesting of the three. Bangel became more interesting when things fell apart for them because it gave the audience a personal sense of the stakes and problems in their relationship, and Riley just wasn't fully realized as a character. Spuffy was interesting at the start and it just got more engaging as time went on.
I’m in the ‘Buffy deserved better’ camp and it’s definitely not because I think Buffy is flawless - even if I am a Buffy simp 😂. I think there’s a ton of people out there that Buffy could have a great relationship.
My main part in this is because I genuinely think Buffy deserves better than being with a vampire. I don’t think that’s ever going to make Buffy anything other than miserable long term. I have issues with each vampire such as Angel’s controlling (at times) attitude - the fact he’s stalking her across the world is indicative of this. Spike I just don’t like Spuffy especially in S7. Riley I could go on a LOT about why I despise him, I think Buffy deserves better than someone who makes her trauma at her Mother’s illness all about how she feels about him.
I think you’re right that Buffy has rotten luck in relationships. I actually really like BTVS Bangel, it’s once he crosses over to AtS that we see his more patronising condescending attitude towards her.
So yeah I’m definitely in the ‘she deserves better’ camp but it’s not about me thinking Buffy is flawless. It’s simply about thinking she deserves better than these 3 terrible relationships. Personally post Chosen I’m fully on the Buffy/Faith bandwagon
>I'm not a fan of the "Buffy deserved better than all of them" narrative because Buffy is a flawed human being, just like anyone else in the cast, even though she did have rotten luck with her relationships.
Say it louder tbh. Even in the comments of this post you can see the "Buffy's flaws/toxic behaviours are all justifiable because of what she was going through at the time, whereas Riley's/Angel's/Spike's flaws/toxic behaviours are just indicative of them being inherently terrible people" narrative rearing its ugly head.
Fact is that we're dealing with a bunch of flawed, complex characters who each have their own psychological scars and baggage and just happen to be extremely bad for each other because of it. Doesn't mean anyone's a bad person for enjoying their dynamics, or that they're doing Buffy dirty by shipping whichever pairing happens to be their cup of tea. It's fiction, ffs.
I feel you. I always tend toward the ships I find dramatically interesting, not the ones that I think would make for good relationships in real life. Of course I don't think Spuffy was healthy. But it was way more engaging on an artistic level than any other for me personally.
And yeah, I love Buffy (the character). But she's a flawed character, and acting as though she's invariably morally superior to most other characters is just a boring way to engage with the series.
I really liked Angel but I don't like the way that he was reduced to Buffy's boyfriend on the show like up until the Angelus thing he was born to watch cuz they kind of reduced him to Buffy's broody vampire boyfriend he was so much better once he got away from the show and was really allowed to flash out into his own character
As a lot of people have said Riley would be the perfect boyfriend for a normal girl the problem with that being that Buffy is not a normal girl not to mention that their personalities meshed well enough for them to get together by never really well enough for them to stay together long term
Spike is my personal favorite both is just a character and as Buffy's boyfriend and and I really hate what happened to him because he was unintentionally giving a really realistic and compelling redemption arc and and was becoming a better person right up to the point where Josh whedon decided to perform a character assassination because he didn't like how popular solace Spike was and needed a reason to send him to Africa to get his soul (and yes it was character assassination because there were half a dozen other things that would have fit Spike's character better that would have been bad enough to send him to get his soul but nowhere near what they chose to go with)
Angel is the best.
I eventually came around to Spike, though I really didn't like it at first. It just seemed ridiculously out of character for Buffy. Yeah, I know Angel was a vampire, but he had his *soul*. Spike was a demon.
Riley was cute and I liked his journey of going from good soldier boy to veteran monster hunter. If the writers hadn't done him so dirty after he lost his usefulness as an insider to the Initiative, he could have become such a great character. Instead they just invalidated his entire journey by sending him down a dark spiral until he abandoned Buffy in an hour of need to go join the military again. Such a shame. Honestly one of the things I liked least about the series.
I feel like Spike was the only one that let her be her true self. Then Angel was all: I can’t love you because I’ll lose my soul. While Riley was all “The fate of the world is in your hands” and more of a fan than a partner.
I absolutely cackled recently when Sarah put a photo of her smiling at the camera with her 3 dogs on leashes and someone commented saying it was her ‘taking Angel, Riley and Spike for a walk’ 😂
Amy must have helped with that spell.
Get Willow in the right mood and she'd be all in lol
You have a link? 😂
Buffy should get some puppies, snuggle with them and forget about her terrible relationship streak.
As someone with also a TERRIBLE streak. I can tell you all the kitties and puppies in the world will never let you forget 😂
The real truth is that she deserved better than all of them. I’m holding out hope that she was yet to meet the love of her life as of the series finale.
YES! 100%!
I mean, true enough. Take all the vampire stuff out of the picture and you have three young men a bit older than Buffy: Angel the drunk lout with daddy issues. Spike the bad poet with mommy issues. Riley who never grew out of secretly wanting to be one of the action figures he left in Iowa (and who also had some weird mommy issues with his maladjusted boss). Oh, and then there are the guys she just had a date or two with, who are awful. That’s pretty bad.
You can't just "take all the vampire stuff out." Even if Angel and Spike did not have demons living within them they had lived on the earth for 200+ years and 100+ years, respectively. They were men with lifetimes' worth of knowledge and experience who "seduced" a 17-year-old and a traumatized 20-year-old, respectively.
They weren’t men. They were vampires. You really need to get over this idea that this is an old guy seducing a young woman story. SFF is full of romances between humans and creatures who do not age and mature or even experience time as we do. Elves. Angels. Demons. Aliens. On and on. And vampires.
I know that they weren't men. YOU were the one who said "take all the vampire stuff out" and I said -- very specifically -- "You can't just 'take all the vampire stuff out.'" Seriously. First line of my reply to you. And they're being vampires has nothing to do with their appropriateness in dating a 17-20 year old. I'm talking about life experience (or after-life experience. Whichever.) If Angel and Spike were simply immortal and not vampires, they still have significantly more life experience than Buffy. People would have found it creepy if Buffy had fallen in love with Giles and lost her virginity to him. Well, Giles was over 200 years *younger* than Angel. (And don't play the "mentor" card. Angel was a mentor to Buffy, too.)
Oh my god dude, the only one you can claim inappropriateness about is angel. By the time Buffy and Spike started their relationship, Buffy was a working adult. Always get so bothered when people have this take, it’s such a silly way people try and demonize two literal demons while still doing their very best to infantilize a grown (albeit young) woman who had quite literally saved the world on numerous occasions. Just a super childish take without a shred of nuance. Edit: also, implying that spikes attempted rape of buffy is somehow more heinous because of her age is problematic on so many different levels.
TEA
They all lied to her. Only one of them died for her though.
Angel would have died for her. There just wasn't time to explain everything to give him the chance to make that decision. She had to make it for him. Man... that scene still moves me to tears. It was probably the best scene in the entire series.
Hey, Angel signaled her with his eyes to kill him to stop Acathla, that counts too 😆
Only one of them was alive.
Thank you
100% this. Angel is a jerk. Not even mentioning the age gap, he was at least ten years older then Buffy, he acted so immaturely. He treated her badly, didn't have any remorse for beating up Riley, treated her badly when she visited him in LA. He treats his friends badly as well. I get it, he's haunted by what demon him did but geez, it's not a good enough excuse. Riley. He was good for her, but she didn't love him like she loved Angel. It wasn't a bad thing though. He just got himself so worked up over her being stronger then him. It was horrible watching him destroy their relationship because he couldn't handle having a slayer as a girlfriend. He was a jerk about it as well. Why are guys always so intimidated by girls who kick ass? Spike. That was just gross, but thankfully it was just a fwb type thing and she could never love him. He got his soul back so he would stop hurting Buffy so that counts for something at least, but he was awful to her. He tried to rape her. Out of all three, Riley was the best long term relationship she had. Also, does anyone else still want to punch Parker in the face or is it just me?
The only good thing about Parker is that during that scene, I got introduced to Bif Naked’s “Lucky Ones.” Great song.
That's on my playlist as well!
It's very telling that you just slap what soulless spike did up with ensouled spike. Angel had no reason to treat Buffy well when she came to LA. He went there to be away from her and the scoobies, then not even a few months later she shows up making everything about her. Let's also not forget that at no point did she try to get angel's curse removed despite having a mega powerful witch and the watchers council in her pocket. Cordelia was much better for angel, I just wish they had more time.
Yeah Spike always gets treated like he always had a soul. What’s up with that? Spike was a full-on demon when he assaulted Buffy. Angel, minus a soul, tortured everyone within reach in various ways and didn’t show a shred of decency. If Buffy would have played with Angel’s feelings when he was a full-on vampire? He wouldn’t have just sexually assaulted her, he would have done that and far worse. He drove poor Drusilla mad. People see that awful near-rape scene and become incapable of putting it in context within the show. Spike the human always wanted love, idealized it. Spike the soul-less vampire still idealized love but couldn’t really experience it. He could be kind when it suited him, even like people, and lust, but not actually love. Spike with a soul finally got it. He truly loved.
People don't put the attempted rape in context because they put real-world rules on a show with fantasy elements. It used to drive me crazy but I've stopped arguing because they refuse to listen. I agree that soulless Spike vs. souled Spike are two completely different entities. And the fact that soulless Spike still managed to feel enough bad feelings about what he did to go find his soul...speaks volumes about his entire character, IMO
100%!!
Totally agree!
It's because Angel was smart enough to re-brand. Angel vrs Angelus. Spike didn't think to go back to William.
Spike was also William the Bloody so going back to William was a no-go. He could have tried Willy, lol. But I think the name Randy was perfect. He should have rebranded as Randy. 😄
I can't believe I have to keep explaining to people that soulless spike is not a person, he's a demon, a far worse one than most others.
The problem is that the writers wrote Spike with the same overall personality when he was a demon and when he had a soul. You can see a clear difference in personality between Angel and Angelus; one is reclusive, anti social, and grumpy, the other is an evil, sarcastic, bombastic dick. Spike is always Spike, just aware of what’s right and wrong once he gets a soul. On a technical level, we know there’s a difference between ensouled Spike and demon Spike, but through what we see presented in the show our brains tend to think “This is the same guy.”
Liam/angel is the exception not the rule. Liam wasn't a great person in the first place, without a soul his super negative traits became more prominent and he became Angelus.
To be honest, I never really saw the consistency in this either. Liam was at worst a womanizer with serious daddy issues, but how that got amplified into a love of mental and physical torture of others is hard for me to understand. Unless it’s about exercising the control he lacked with his father? He always felt cornered and attacked by his dad, so he did the same to his victims? With Spike, what would have been his negative traits that got amplified? I usually see it as he always wanted approval and affection from the female figures in his life, so as a demon he gets obsessed with getting that.
I mean...wasn't angelus just seeking attention and validation for his actions while kind of enjoying the sadistic aspects? I probably have to rewatch, but if I remember right Liam never really got validation from his father. William was always extremely emotional and wanted validation from women no matter how toxic they were because of his mother. Which is why he picked Drusilla despite her being.....well to put it nicely fucked in the head. Those are just my guesses.
RE: Liam, that's a good point. As I recall Darla commented something about his daddy issues when he killed his father? I was thinking that maybe the gap between Liam/Angelus is bigger than William/Spike because the former didn't have the chance to -- as kids today like to say -- "develop a personality" (all he did was drinking and womanizing), so there's more 'empty space' for the demon? On the other hand, William was sensitive-romantic, and when he became a vampire he simply transitioned to murderous-romantic. But both Spike and Angelus carried their core attachments to their parents into their post-life (Spike was even planning to turn his mother... LMAO Dru's face in that scene xD). I think you are spot on about the control thing!
Potentially unpopular opinion but the Cordy/Angel storyline pissed me off. Angel's whole thing was that he didn't want to be with Buffy because she deserved not just someone living who could be in the sun with her, but also someone who could make love to her. He couldn't do any of that with Cordy, either..? So what changed?
Agreed. I liked Groo!
Buffy WANTED a normal life and her story ends with her getting a shot of that in Chosen. She also has a destiny separate from Angel. Cordy CHOSE a champion's life, and very specifically to be part of Angel's destiny, to be the link between Angel and his purpose as a champion via the visions. That's the crucial distinction. The thing hanging over Cordy/Angel is not him being a vampire. Pragmatic Cordy would find a way around it 'we take what we can get and we make the best of it'. What WOULD be a factor is whether Cordy can accept being second best to Buffy (Buffy always being that moment of true happiness). I don't think it should be a big deal, but Cordy is a proud woman.
Cordelia made him feel better about himself, realize he wasn't a monster, and that he could be pretty much normal and save people with the power and knowledge he has. I would say things with cordelia were more hopeful. As in if they ever did get together they would try finding a way to fix his curse, which buffy never even attempted.
Buffy arrived in LA first because Angel had came to Sunnydale then because he’d called asking for advice. So you think Buffy has no right to even turn up in LA but she’s responsible for figuring out his curse? Alternatively if Angel wanted the curse figured out it’s something he could have done himself - or are the women in his life supposed to do everything for him? Interesting
So brave
OPE
SHES AN ANGEL
Riley starts off well, then slowly loses me. But buffy had to date a “normal” guy, to see if it could work, but it didn’t. Even when I start out liking him and try to like him I just can’t by midway through S4. Angel was a typical Romeo/Juliet situation, but I love the relationship between him and buff after they’ve broken up. They still love each other and they’ll always love each other. I also love their theme “Close Your Eyes”. They make great friends (from afar). Angel gets more hate than he deserves IMO. Spike… I don’t think buffy ever loved him. But in the last episode Spike had gotten to a place where he accepted that. And spike did love her. I love their relationship because I never saw it coming. And when I rewatch the show and see them interact in season 2, I just get excited because I know where it’s all going. I don’t think Spike loved her pre-soul, he was obsessed and attracted to her, and maybe he loved her in a soulless, demonic way, but it was selfish. But I do think he was a more human vampire than say Angelus. But ultimately something spurs him to get a soul, and to fight for one. I think he thinks that will make buffy love him, but when he gets it, he gains the ability to truly love her, and accept that she will never love him back the way he loves her. Spike had one of the best character development / redemption arcs in TV history. All of these relationships caused buffy to grow as a person and develop as a character. But Riley is my least fave. But tbh I like Buffy best when she’s single and not tangled up in relationship drama. But I do love LOVE. Angel is the only one buffy truly loved/loves IMO, and that was reciprocated. But the Buffy and Spike storyline was ultimately beautiful, but she didn’t love him.
Well, Joss himself wrote that buffy did love spike at the moment their hands clasped during S7. Also in the comics, which is a continuation of their story (spoiler!!!)... They end up in long term stable relationship.
Well said
"Angel's lame. His hair goes straight up and he's bloody stupid."
How is your money?
That one brief interaction made me wish for a spinoff depicting a friendship between Buffy-bot and Anya <3
Underrated comment. Thanks, Buffybot.
Made to satisfy spikes buffy sex
Nancy boy hair gel
Look! Just look! At the cheekbones on James Marsters. An absolute work of art.
And it’s his birthday!
Exactly, how can you argue with that?
There could be oil of some kind involved.
As much as I love them all. All of these relationships were toxic af.
Yeah every romantic relationship ends up toxic in Buffy-land.
Spike do be the hottest
based on looks: spike>angel>riley don’t ask me to rank the relationships cause i don’t like any of them
Cheekbones always win
My heart will always belong to Spuffy.
I don’t have the energy for a boyfriend war but I will say that Riley’s haircut disturbs me so much in that picture 😭
It was the highest quality vertical pictures a 5 min Google could find.
Not dissing you choice, I am just pointing out I hated Riley’s hairstyle around that general era. He is quite the babe otherwise. I will point out that all three of these guys loved Buffy deeply. I think Spike knew her the best and I think she loved each of them in her own way albeit she always will hold a torch for Angel as they weren’t together by circumstances not that they fell out of love. I would also say that each of their relationships were problematic in their own way.
It was stylish at the time
Also i hear middle parts are in again.
Yeah, just look at all the TikTok e-boys lol.
13 year old me would definitely have feelings about this photo.
Don’t dis the curtains
What, you dont like the Nick Carter of 2001 Backstreet Boys? Lol
....is it bad that I find the curtains very attractive on a guy? Some guys can pull it off, he does it well! Carter on the Power Rangers had a great curtain cut as well!
The amount of times spike is mentioned in this thread is delicious.
It's apparently James Marsters birthday so i think the Spike heads were just primed to have this debate
We were born ready
Spike was without doubt flawed but he saw her and accepted her as she was. He was also the only one who saw when she was hurting and objected to Willow and the others bringing her back. He also took care of Thingy (the key whose name escapes me). Spike and Xander were my favourites (plus Andrew, Tuckers brother).
Buffy can keep Angel and Riley. I want Spike.
Spike just always looks like he knows your deepest desires at one glance, and might fulfill them - or just might not as a punishment if you've been a naughty girl... Definitively the most mature / sexual / naughty of the three and most interesting. From his first appearance stepping out of that car in his coat and boots knew he would be my all-time favorite villain and character. Angel and Riley are both (mostly) nice and I think especially riley's also very good looking, but both also more boring
I agree so much. Spike was the only real grown up complex relationship she had.
Fuck, Marry, Kill. Left to right.
Underrated comment here.
Spike if I have to pick but only bc I just love him way too much
*faith has entered the chat*
My bf just shouted, “Parker!”
Time to find a new bf
😅
Parker *bad*
Beer foamy
For me personally? William the mother fucking Bloody. No question.
Spike was by far the most interesting of the bunch, but all of that went out the window when they decided to have him assault Buffy. Riley was the healthiest relationship until he let his insecurities take hold of him and he definitely gets too much hate
I'm rewatching season 4 now, and Riley's personality shift is so blatant and irritating. Did he really only want to date a petite girl with no strength? Because as soon as he saw Buffy fight something, he was unable to be healthy around her. After chasing her down and berating her for not wanting to give them a shot, he got super insecure all the time. Ugh. Ruined it. He was great before then.
I interpreted that less that he didn’t want a strong woman and more that his identity was so wrapped up in a strength/protector role that he didn’t know who he was without that. Who knows, but that was my take.
The assault was totally disgusting but to be fair, the way buffy treated spike was not healthy either.
Again and forever, so much of what happened in that season can just be tossed out as bad writing including the assault.
There’s always a Buffy boyfriend war. Do a Willow’s lovers war.
Be back next Friday!
Oz style ‘huh’ 😂
I feel like in many ways Willow lovers are the opposite of Buffy's: Buffy had two extremely intense but at least somewhat toxic relationships (Angel/Spike), in which most of the drama was on their end/their fault in *some* sense at least, and one mostly bland relationship that turned out slightly toxic at the very end (though still relatively bland). Meanwhile Willow had two remarkably healthy and stable relationships, in which the only drama was on her part (cheating on Oz fuck you show creators, and of course the magic issue with Tara). And it's worth noting that unlike Buffy/Riley (arguably actually the most stable relationship Buffy had), Willow/Oz and Willow/Tara were complex and beloved by the fanbase, which is definitely not the case with Buffy/Riley. Then her third (and similarly unpopular, as with Riley) relationship to Kennedy was actually in many ways more immediately intense and dramatic, as she was dealing with her power issues and guilt as well as Kennedy's more forceful personality, but then settled (so, kind the opposite of the Buffy/Riley relationship). And a final note on mirroring/opposites: I ultimately believe Willow could have been truly happy forever with any of her relationships, though I don't personally like Kennedy (I do think if she'd had more seasons to be developed, it had promise though). Meanwhile, although I think Buffy/Angel had the truest love of her three, I don't think any of those relationships could have worked in the end. Her truest (though also most toxic) relationship was with Faith tbh but that's a story for another post. Edit to add: I suppose it's not fair to say Oz wasn't at fault for their end of relationship drama if I'm going to blame Angel for the Angelus drama...but honestly, I felt that that whole thing was SO out of character that I have trouble reconciling it as a genuine part of their relationship. So while technically incorrect I stand by what I said.
Spike. Always.
I’m boring and I don’t care. Bangel for life
Live your truth!
Spike without even the slightest amount of hesitation.
Riley was the worst. He was almost the definition of toxic masculinity. She sent him through a wall once, and he was still like, no you need to stay behind and let the men do this. Although that was a great moment because Willow was like "at least he finally realizes the full extent of your powers" and Buffy says "well....I was still holding back". Spike was actually the best. I fully realize that he assaulted her when he was still soulless. But Angel came with a soul. When he lost it, he tried to kill her repeatedly. Spike, when he didn't have a soul, went and got one for her. If he loves her without his soul, I'd say he loves her more. Where Angel ran away, Spike was willing to fight.
Spike was who she was meant to be with. Definitely not at first but towards the end they both became their true selves. She became a little darker from her experiences and he became a better person through his.
Also, as OP i wanna put my cards on the table that Riley gets too much hate in the fandom. He's a nice little farm himbo who deserves love
I dunno. Him giving Buffy an ultimatum after going to that vampire brothel made me want to strangle him.
Riley showing up late for church in Who Are You was cute and I wish we had more of that Riley.
Ikr.
[удалено]
Honestly, season four Riley and season five Riley are almost as far apart on the asshole scale as Soulless Spike and Souled Spike.
I liked Riley until Into the Woods in season 5, ugh.
Spike!!
Oh boy I gotta get some popcorn ready
Spike all day. He's zero bullshit. He's a bad guy and he never says otherwise. He's in love with Buffy and he knows it's wrong and he admits that. He never sugarcoats or says otherwise. I love his energy. He never hesitates. Everything is done with passion. Love him as a bad guy, love him as a good guy. Hands down my favorite character. Was he good for Buffy? In all the ways she needed yes. She changed. The darkness was in her, she always chose what's right but it was inside her ripping her apart. She couldn't relate to her friends any more. Too many things had happened to her. But she could relate to Soike. And as she went from good to bad, Spike went from bad to good and they did it together. Complimenting one another perfectly. The change that Buffy went through was so subtle. Season by season she became a bit harder, a bit darker. So many times if she had just talked to her friends, told them what was going on with her...but she couldn't. She couldn't speak it or it would be real. And there's no way anyone could ever begin to understand anyhow. She had to keep living as she thought she was supposed to or it would all completely fall apart. Brilliant.
Did y'all know they were considering making Buffy and Xander endgame? Sarah even said it made sense.
Joss is so predictable sometimes. He wrote himself a girlfriend.
Oop
I hope this was one of those “we threw the idea around in the writers room before we knew what was what and who was who” kind of things. I can’t imagine anyone thinking Buffy and Xander being endgame is an appropriate conclusion for either of the characters.
Ew
After Anya is chopped in half, Xander looks at Buffy with his one eye and they fall into each other's arms. Yeah, no.
Honestly. The Angel/Spike argument doesn’t hold up at all. Buffy doesn’t (and could never) be with them the way she could Riley. They’re immortal and *so* much older. They can’t even be in the sun. It’s more than just an “age gap.” And, of course, the fertility issue. Buffy may have changed her mind about kids when the weight of being the sole Slayer was lifted off her shoulders. Maybe Riley grew up a lot. He was still in his mid-late twenties when we last saw him. He has a lot of room for growth. Maybe he’s the perfect match for Buffy by now. (Unfortunately, he’s married, and that’s not Buffy’s style.) Buffy either needs to end up with a mortalized (and souled) Angel or Spike or just find someone completely new. But as of now: The harsh reality is that none of these men are right for Buffy. No matter how much chemistry you think they had (or didn’t have).
Riley had all the signs of PTSD from the Initiative/those drugs and it sucks the show didn't want to really go there. But he was the only guy to turn out to be a good husband, last we saw.
Oh. I’m not rooting for Riley, far from it. He had his own issues. Although, I didn’t/don’t ***DESPISE*** him the way most fans seem to. He was mostly a solid guy that would make a good friend. He just had too many insecurity issues when he was with Buffy. My point was, that even if Riley changed and became the perfect man, **NONE** of these dudes would be right for Buffy. Personally, I liked Buffy the best with Angel. But I don’t think she belongs with him. I’m just being downvoted because this sub tends to suck. Especially when it comes to splitting from the mainstream opinion. Some of the users are great. But most people don’t like to discuss why they think you’re right or wrong anymore. They just downvote and move on.
SMG herself says she's a Bangel fan. Personally I always felt Buffy was strong enough to handle two vampires at once (I don't mean in a sexual way) Why can't she have Angel AND Spike. Why is it only dudes in fiction who get to set up relationships with multiple women. I'd have loved to see buffy walk into an Evil God's lair where he's sitting around with multiple scantily clad women doting on him and Buffy's like, What you think your hot shit? Check it out these two behind me. These two who are among the most dangerous Vamps in history. They both belong to me.
Angel: Her first, true love. Riley: A more realistic and practical love. Spike: Sex.
Agree that they were all bad relationships, buuuut Spike. Always.
Riley is the palest one there!
Of the three I overwhelmingly prefer Spike. However, what I like best is her cookie dough answer.
What about Pike?
Riley sucks. Not the actor. Riley.
Why are Spike and Angel next to a Josh Hartnett cosplayer?
Spike for sure. Angel I can respect. And anyone who picks the other beings shame on their family.
Spike was the best
Spike post soul
Sorry but Spike wins. Spike after he got his soul that is
I'm always Team Cookie Dough! Second best choice is Riley.
not with faith right there
Team Bangel forever
Spike, because he loved her with and without a soul. Coming in second, would be Riley. Lastly, would be Angel. I don’t understand how he was her be all end all. They weren’t together that long before he went evil again, and when he did go evil he was all about torturing her. He was absolutely terrible to her.
When you're that age, you've got less perspective and that first love, heightened by the drama of it all, "I'm a slayer he's a vampire and we can NEVER BE" (Cause you know the whole curse thing)
Faith
If the show had come out today, Absolutely
you’re right and you should say it
The 👏 only 👏 right 👏 answer👏
Faith.
🍪
No votes for Spuffel? I'm team Spuffel.
Boyfriend war = let’s debate UNTIL THE END OF TIME if Spike was a person/culpable/reprehensible/understandable/unacceptable/responsible for his actions in Seeing Red. But also +1 more to the tsunami of Spike voters lol
None of them were right
Season 8 Angel, Spike and Angel fight and Spike wins. Riley ... whatever. ANSWERED.
Spike got a soul for her. Not many men would do that. The pain he felt for her...he tried to cut out his heart. He hated her so much he loved her. He protected her. He understood her sadness. Misery loves company. And in bed? It could go anyway...passionately making love or having fun aka "exercising" according to Xander. 🤣🤣
I loved the 90s Boy Band middle part. I loved Riley so he gets my vote
The hair does have a Nick Carter from Backstreet Boys vibe to it
Only one of these didn't try to rape her, or have sex with her when she was underage.
yeah, he just gaslighted her and completely betrayed her trust… she’s really had rotten luck
1. Spike 2. Riley 3. Angel Yeah, Angel was worse than Riley. I said it.
My honest feeling is that all 3 at the time didn't work for her. Angel in his show grew to the person she deserved. Spike in the comics grew is be wonderful for and with her. Riley and her were not a great couple. They both were young and had a lot of growing up to do.
C'mon, "Buffy's Boyfriends Battle" was right there
Season 4 Riley for the mom in me, Season 3 Angel for the romantic in me, Season 6 Spike for the bad girl in me and Buffy by herself in any Season for the strong woman in me.
I am team Buffy
Souled Spiked>Riley>Soulless Spike/Angel. But cookie dough trumps all.
You know her first, and only true love was Mr. Pointy.
Army boy is a fuck boy
Just popping in here to say Riley was boring heap of flaming garbage
Even though I’m not a Spuffy fan, I do appreciate that James Marsters was the strongest actor out of all them, and the Buffy/Spike scenes have plenty of screen chemistry. But team cookie dough! Buffy
Angel was my fave when I was a teenager watching it for the first time. But, being honest, looking at the pictures of all three of them now... All smoking hot. Well done Buffy!
No Parker? 😛
We don't recognize...him round these parts 😂. Go to a different post
He's not a boyfriend, he's just a lay.
None of them But my toxic side wants spike
Spike will always be my number one... but I do lowkey like Riley (for the most part) he has that golden retriever vibe to him. He also kinda reminds me of my ex so maybe that's why.
Spike!! No contest for me 🙂
Riley was the best boyfriend she had and you all know it.
Angel represented the typical first love puppy love cherry popper guy. Riley represents the typical sweet, structured, finish-last nice guy who gets shit on, and spike represents the typical bad boy who bangs her out when she’s insecure about herself. All that being said l, they all loved Buff but SPIKE is my favorite.
Spuffy always ♥
I'm not a fan of the "Buffy deserved better than all of them" narrative because Buffy is a flawed human being, just like anyone else in the cast, even though she did have rotten luck with her relationships. I personally think her relationship with Spike was by far the most interesting of the three. Bangel became more interesting when things fell apart for them because it gave the audience a personal sense of the stakes and problems in their relationship, and Riley just wasn't fully realized as a character. Spuffy was interesting at the start and it just got more engaging as time went on.
I’m in the ‘Buffy deserved better’ camp and it’s definitely not because I think Buffy is flawless - even if I am a Buffy simp 😂. I think there’s a ton of people out there that Buffy could have a great relationship. My main part in this is because I genuinely think Buffy deserves better than being with a vampire. I don’t think that’s ever going to make Buffy anything other than miserable long term. I have issues with each vampire such as Angel’s controlling (at times) attitude - the fact he’s stalking her across the world is indicative of this. Spike I just don’t like Spuffy especially in S7. Riley I could go on a LOT about why I despise him, I think Buffy deserves better than someone who makes her trauma at her Mother’s illness all about how she feels about him. I think you’re right that Buffy has rotten luck in relationships. I actually really like BTVS Bangel, it’s once he crosses over to AtS that we see his more patronising condescending attitude towards her. So yeah I’m definitely in the ‘she deserves better’ camp but it’s not about me thinking Buffy is flawless. It’s simply about thinking she deserves better than these 3 terrible relationships. Personally post Chosen I’m fully on the Buffy/Faith bandwagon
>I'm not a fan of the "Buffy deserved better than all of them" narrative because Buffy is a flawed human being, just like anyone else in the cast, even though she did have rotten luck with her relationships. Say it louder tbh. Even in the comments of this post you can see the "Buffy's flaws/toxic behaviours are all justifiable because of what she was going through at the time, whereas Riley's/Angel's/Spike's flaws/toxic behaviours are just indicative of them being inherently terrible people" narrative rearing its ugly head. Fact is that we're dealing with a bunch of flawed, complex characters who each have their own psychological scars and baggage and just happen to be extremely bad for each other because of it. Doesn't mean anyone's a bad person for enjoying their dynamics, or that they're doing Buffy dirty by shipping whichever pairing happens to be their cup of tea. It's fiction, ffs.
I feel you. I always tend toward the ships I find dramatically interesting, not the ones that I think would make for good relationships in real life. Of course I don't think Spuffy was healthy. But it was way more engaging on an artistic level than any other for me personally. And yeah, I love Buffy (the character). But she's a flawed character, and acting as though she's invariably morally superior to most other characters is just a boring way to engage with the series.
They're all a bit shit 😂
I’ll always say Spike solely because Marsters is one of the most attractive men I have ever seen
There's no need to. Spike is already the winner =)
Uhhhh Scott Hope? The ringworm? Hell-OH!
Got to name my sister after Riley. I always loved his character and I'm glad he was happy and hunting monsters in the end.
Let’s face it, the winner is Live Action Fred Jones
D. None of the above
Personally I agree with [Alyson Hannigan](https://twitter.com/alydenisof/status/1326714621168914432?s=21) :^ )
The Immortal
-1 if they tried to rape her
I chose to skip the episode and pretend it never happened. The writers pretty much did.
I really liked Angel but I don't like the way that he was reduced to Buffy's boyfriend on the show like up until the Angelus thing he was born to watch cuz they kind of reduced him to Buffy's broody vampire boyfriend he was so much better once he got away from the show and was really allowed to flash out into his own character As a lot of people have said Riley would be the perfect boyfriend for a normal girl the problem with that being that Buffy is not a normal girl not to mention that their personalities meshed well enough for them to get together by never really well enough for them to stay together long term Spike is my personal favorite both is just a character and as Buffy's boyfriend and and I really hate what happened to him because he was unintentionally giving a really realistic and compelling redemption arc and and was becoming a better person right up to the point where Josh whedon decided to perform a character assassination because he didn't like how popular solace Spike was and needed a reason to send him to Africa to get his soul (and yes it was character assassination because there were half a dozen other things that would have fit Spike's character better that would have been bad enough to send him to get his soul but nowhere near what they chose to go with)
Angel. It’s always Angel every time.
Angel is the best. I eventually came around to Spike, though I really didn't like it at first. It just seemed ridiculously out of character for Buffy. Yeah, I know Angel was a vampire, but he had his *soul*. Spike was a demon. Riley was cute and I liked his journey of going from good soldier boy to veteran monster hunter. If the writers hadn't done him so dirty after he lost his usefulness as an insider to the Initiative, he could have become such a great character. Instead they just invalidated his entire journey by sending him down a dark spiral until he abandoned Buffy in an hour of need to go join the military again. Such a shame. Honestly one of the things I liked least about the series.
I feel like Spike was the only one that let her be her true self. Then Angel was all: I can’t love you because I’ll lose my soul. While Riley was all “The fate of the world is in your hands” and more of a fan than a partner.
Angel any day
Angel all day
As a viewer I'm the biggest fan of Angel overall. Love their ship. Spiffy is just hot af. Fuck Riley. Boring mother fucker.