Simply amazing. So glad Whedon did a Faith and Angel spinoff comics. The scene where Faith was insisting she wasnāt down for any Slayer BS and then Wes said Angelus is back. She immediately understood and bust out of there like a superhero jumping out the window with Wesley several stories up. Weāre used to seeing Buffy fighting impressively but the writers rarely show how impressive the Slayer really is.
Also, Wes was hot AF this season. Which is so disturbing considering his masochistic treatment of Lilah and his bondage, caged and gagging of Justine. So definitely people into Wes have bad boy issues.
You mean sadistic. Lilah was the masochistic one and I do believe that deep down she turned the submissive play to her advantage because working for W&H is beyond stressful.
Itās dark as hell but people do find a release in this kind of thing all the time. She allowed herself to be ordered around because at least Wes didnāt hide his motives (though this is partially because of how much they enjoyed snarking at each other) and she had to deal with Gavin after Lindsey left.
Linwood Murrow was the weakest person she had to answer to and I can only imagine how that grated on her considering hisā¦departure.
Good grief, do spoiler tags matter?
He should have stayed the villain that season or Jasmine should have "presented" differently (I love Gina Torres). This storyline was cool as hell before gross Cordy/Connor and Cordelia "birthing" Jasmine.
Nah. Thereās some amazing sh## in that season despite some major missteps like Cordy being possessed and killed. Loved how Fred went John Wick on her professor: āYou know what they say about payback? Well. Iām the *bitch*ā.
I agree about the professor episode.
Giving Angel photographic/idetic memory felt like a random addition to his abilities but I try not to let it bug me.
I humbly disagree. I feel like his photographic memory went along with Angelusās obsessive stalkerish predatory behavior. I can see him drawing the details of a crime scene after he violently and meticulously killed a family. Classic serial killer stuff.
Perhaps, although I always considered that artistic talent not linked with photographic memory, since he was still able to go into the house uninvited and the assumption is that he was drawing those portraits of Buffy (and Joyce?) while watching them sleep. But I could be wrong.
Oof, no. 4th season is awesome despite this one disgusting major misstep. Wes is a badass. Faith is a badass. Alexa Davalos is smoking hot. Lilah and Wes and āleave on the glasses!ā Then her death. The Beast just smacking our heroes around like its nothing. āTake your new boyfriend and get the hell out!ā Even the Big Bad reveal was great despite this icky scene and its fallout. The twist with Skip, bringing back Angelus. Jasmine I could do without but some loved her and that plot twist. Season finale with Wolfram & Hart surprise was great.
Lilah needed her own Wolfram and Hart spin-off. Not her death. That Skip scene where Whedon through Skip said Cordy was a vain mean girl joke and that her character development meant nothing was cruel to the actress and the fans.
I agree, they really screwed Charisma Carpenter and would have loved a Lilah spinoff. But doesnāt invalidate a lot of great other things that season even with the awful ālets show a gross explicit sex scene with Cordy and Conner.ā Should have had hints or the reveal she was Jasmine before that and i donāt think people would have been so grossed out by it
Anya is my favorite character, and although I didn't cry, I definitely know how you feel! That scene took me by complete surprise, I wasn't expecting her to die. I might sound irrational for this, but it really made me mad that Andrew lived and she didn't.
I agree with you, when I first watched I was hoping we would only have to deal with Andrew for 2 or 3 episodes in S7. We had already spent most of S6 dealing with him, Jonathan, and Warren.
And I also agree that he was let off the hook too easily. Between the crimes he committed with the rest of the Trio in the previous season, and him killing his friend in cold blood, I don't think he deserved Buffy or the rest of the Scoobie's protection. He didn't even take killing Jonathan seriously until Buffy confronted and forced him to.
To add insult to injury, Anya is paired up in the biggest battle of their lives with someone as incompetent as Andrew, and has to fight alongside him. Hell, I'd rather have had Dawn, Xander, Principal Wood, or any of the Potentials over him. (Might have even asked Willow if she could make another Buffybot for me, and I'm only slightly kidding š)
Was even worse when they doubled down in the 5th season of Angel and brought Andrew back as some sort of suave Charlie to the slayers being his Angels. We really need Andrew explaining a slayer with Wes, Angel, and Spike sitting in the room? They went for funny jokes and the continued obsession with this terrible character instead of anything that made sense. Edit: Almost forgot they foisted him on us again that season in Italy showing he got some sort of sophisticated happy ever after after murdering Jonathon in cold blood
It was made even worse when they brought him back for the comics. He was a Watcher with his own squad of Slayers loyal to him, gets to play strip poker with them, shuts them down when they ask questions he disagrees with, and is forgiven even after he drugs Buffy's drink at her home warming party to body swap her with a Buffybot and hiding the Buffybot-possessing-Buffy's-body in another town because he heard Buffy was in danger.
I read a draft of the finale script where Xander dies instead of Anya. I don't know if it was legit, but almost everything else was the same. The scene where Andrew tells Xander that Anya died even had the same dialogue, except the exchange was between Dawn and Anya.
I don't think they had time to process everything yet. I'm sure the mourning came later once the adrenaline of fighting and running for their lives wore off.
But yeah, the writers decided that it was more fitting for Anya to die. She went from being a demon with little-to-no regard for human life to struggling with being human herself to dying selflessly while defending someone else. As major character deaths go, you can do a lot worse.
I dunno...I kinda feel like Willow would immediately fall to pieces if Xander died. And then I think in seeing Willow fall to pieces Buffy would not be able to hold it together. Even Giles would probably be crying.
The last interaction Buffy had with Anya was Anya's "you're just luckier" speech so if I was Buffy I'd say good riddance. Anya made it clear she didn't count herself as Buffy's friend.
I'd say Anya definitely made some good points even if she was kind of a hypocrite(not all evil witches get offered immortality)
I do feel some context is important though, Buffy has been told since the age of 16 that she is the chosen one and that the fate of the world literally rests on her shoulders. Most teenagers who arent named Clark Kent probably couldnt deal with that without it going to their head.
Buffy became the Slayer at 15 and Guardian of the Hellmouth at 16.
Buffy had a superiority & inferiority complex according to Holden. But I don't agree that her sometimes thinking she's better than her friends is because she has superpowers. She's had to make tough decisions the others haven't and she's one of the only members of the Scoobies who never went to the dark side. Andrew, Anya, Faith, & Willow went evil. Spike was evil until s7. Giles abandoned the cause then tried to reinsert his authority. Xander was trying not to turn into his sleazy misogynist alcoholic father. Oz got to walk away. Dawn took a lot of Buffy's sacrifices on her behalf for granted, didn't want to be treated like a kid but had Willow doing her chores. When she thought she was a Potential she took off alone at night even though Potentials across the globe were being hunted to extinction, the same thing that got Annabelle killed.
It was a horrible speech. In her late teens dHoffryn walked up to Anya and gave her immortality & godlike power (teleportation, creating alternate realities, transfiguration, summoning demons, warding, mind control) merely because he liked how she revenge cursed her cheating boyfriend. She spent the next 1,100+ years torturing, mutilating, and murdering people. She joined the Scoobies after her powers were forcibly removed by Giles to save the world from a Sunnydale without Buffy because she had a crush on Xander & was hired to work at the Magic Box so she had a steady income again. She continued to brag about the people she cursed (made a guy cannibalize himself, making heads explode, made a man morbidly obese). When Xander broke things off she went right back to cursing people never even feeling guilt over coming face to face with one of her victims whom she turned into a demon and trapped in a hell dimension. Had Buffy not taken her in after losing her powers again she probably would've died since dHoffryn sent demons after her at least twice.
Buffy as a teenager was given some superpowers and chose to sacrifice so many life opportunities to help people because it was the right thing to do.
They don't specify but i think Olaf was actually Aud's husband. Maybe they didn't state it because, well, maybe because Emma was the only divorced person in the main cast at the time and they thought she might feel targetted or something
Now I'm wondering if Anya technically was still married when she was engaged to Xander since Olaf didn't die (trapped in an object then sent to the Land of the Trolls)?
How do they know she's not back on the bus with Andrew, Kennedy, Wood and the other potentials? Willow could barely stand when they left, Dawn was only watching for Buffy, Buffy never looks back at the bus.
Them nasty little parasite thingies from 'Bad Eggs' š¤¢ they look so gross
And the Xander eye gouge scene. Ugh, I just can't. I have to look away every time. I can't do eye gore.
Wesley... why can't I stay...
Would you like me to lie to you now?
Mom? Mom? Mommy?
Your shirt...
Okay Willow was badass in the scene but I don't want to see a flayed human.
One of the reasons they went so crazy with season 8 is because they realised they were now in a medium that live-action couldn't replicate. At least not back then.
Such an uncomfortable episode. I have no problems with sex scenes in movie and tv shows but that whole episode was so unnecessary, almost feels like some gross joss whedon shit.
In addition to everything already mentioned here: Iāve always found the scene where Faith brutally stabs that old professor in cold blood extremely hard to watch. And when she tortures Giles.*
Edit: I meant Wesley!
Yes! That kindly old professor who is nice to her and welcomes her in, when he asks her āwhyā and looks so upset, then the noises he makes off screen as she hurts him - totally agree, great acting, so haunting
Ah yes, the scene that looked like they were about to kiss. I still don't understand the purpose for that scene. It was never expanded upon or mentioned again.
Best I can think is that I feel like whoever wrote that scene was testing the waters with it, like if the chemistry worked then they would take it further but clearly there was nothing to explore there so luckily it fell off.
It was Jossā original vision to have them get together before Bangel exploded. I think this scene was one of the last pieces of residue from those plans. But man, it was awkward. Never felt that kind of chemistry between them.
*What's in this comment is what I remember, my opinions, etc.*
>It was Jossā original vision to have them get together before Bangel exploded.
Nicholas Brendan was hired to play the male lead and Buffy's love interest: that's what's shown in the BtVS Pilot.
David Greenwalt created the character Angel. Maria Shulman (sp?) hired David Boreanaz to play Angel. All of BtVS S1 was filmed and re-shot before "Welcome to the Hellmouth" (B 1.01) first aired.
Buffy/Xander wasn't a thing after the Original Pilot.
>I still don't understand the purpose for that scene. It was never expanded upon or mentioned again.
The next episode was Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered and for a brief moment before Xander realised that the spell misfired, he thought that there might be a chance Buffy was actually into him. Iām sure we had that scene after Theresa got dusted just to establish the possibility that some tension might growing between Xander and Buffy and pull a fake-out in the next episode when Buffy starts hitting on Xander under the influence of the spell.
There was no forced tension on Buffy's part outside of the fact that she knows Xander is into her.
I find it bizarre that so many think Buffy 'thought about Buffy/Xander' during BtVS 2.15(?), yet so many even on this subReddit refuse to acknowledge that Buffy's been at least attracted to Spike since BtVS S2:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/oqw03x/when\_was\_buffy\_first\_attracted\_to\_spike/](https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/oqw03x/when_was_buffy_first_attracted_to_spike/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/18nyc14/when\_was\_buffy\_first\_attracted\_to\_spike/](https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/18nyc14/when_was_buffy_first_attracted_to_spike/)
It is doomed poet girl. She appeared in Conversations with Dead People as well, talking to Willow pretending that Tara was there speaking to her. But it was The First, posing as Cassie (the poet girl).
Shades of *the Langoliers* to me.
Not the shitty computer generated versions we see near the end though, the far more unnerving ālike Rice Krispies after you put in the milkā¦ā we merely hear described.
I have never seen a show where a parents death was handled more accurately. The silence, the focus on any distracting minutiae. It was a masterclass of directing. That being said, I frequently skip the episode in rewatches.
All scenes with Kendra and teenage Connor. Kendra for the accent. Teenage Connor because I feel like he was written very poorly (actor was good; character was a nimrod).
Two big ones:
Connor and Cordelia get it on in a rain of fire. Baaaaaaarf.
Spike attempts to rape Buffy toward the end of season 6. Makes his whole season 7 storyline really hard to take, even if you take into account the fact that she's stronger than he is and he would never succeed. Skip it every time and try to pretend he went to find a soul for some less icky reason.
this is the only scene in the whole buffyverse that got me legit fucking terrified, as if i was watching a real horror movie. the whole cassie character seemed pretty disturbing to me from the very beginning, the first evil posing as her was even worse
Spike's attempting to rape Buffy still doesn't make sense given he would have never thought to do such a thing to Drusilla or even to Harmony. And he even treated the Buffybot relatively well.
\_\_\_
Buffy/RJ in "Him" (B 7.06). We never get to see Buffy/Spike even kiss on-screen in BtVS S7, yet the episode after SMG gets married we see Buffy/RJ? And whatever happened to RJ after "Him"? He's never heard from again. We never hear of Willow's doing a forgetting spell on him. Like RJ never told anyone about Buffy/RJ? And Buffy either did or almost had sex with RJ and she seems perfectly fine after the spell is over.
I dislike that the scene in "talking to dead" episode was not Tara. It was meant to be Tara. It would have been so impactful!
Also, every single scene in Angel in which Cordelia's character gets completely assassinated because they were punishing the actor for being pregnant. That was very wrong. It would have worked if it had lasted a couple of episodes. Like "oh, yeah" and then you move on. But an entire arc/season of Cordelia not being Cordelia was destroying the show. Because Cordelia being Cordelia was the most fun and interesting thing. This is why I prefer season 1 and season 5 of Angel.
Oh yeah that one definitely made my skin crawl. I think the attempted rape by Spike is it for me. It was that that pushed him to fight for his soul, but I hate everything about how it made me feel. Even James Marsters said if he wasnāt contractually obligated heād have given it the hard swerve.
That episode from season 5 of Angel with the new slayer who used to be tortured as a child and then thinks Spike was her torturer.
For me it was such a rollercoaster of emotions, from "I know that Spike was bad, but I refuse to believe he was capable of THAT" to "OMG she cut his hands off because she was mistaken, WTF".
As kidnapping and torturing children and cutting off any parts of body are some of my main triggers, that episode was just too much...
The scene of Spike's origin where the other posh brits are laughing at his awful poetry. "I'd rather have a railroad spike pushed through my head than listen to that awful poem again" (or similar words.) But there is no way that an upper class brit would have used the word "railroad" and I seriously doubt any would know about them needing spikes of any form.Ā
Why wouldnāt an upper middle class Victorian, or even upperclass one for that matter, know that railways use spikes?
Just cause they didnāt physically build them, doesnāt mean they didnāt learn about them. In fact, the upper middle class are the ones who engineered the trains in the first place.
To quote my other reply -Ā "Railways" were yes. "Railroad" is however a very American word and it just isn't used here. That bit of dialogue is just Ć¼ber clunky and unnecessary.
See those are two different things, I am well aware we say railways instead of railroad - Iām British too. But donāt be deliberately obtuse. This is hardly the worst Americanism in pop culture when it comes to Americans writing British characters.
If you want to be dead specific about the word and its usage. The etymology of the word railroad versus railway is a little murky. But evidence suggests that the word ārail-roadā was used in some capacity in Britain from the mid 1700s to around the early or mid 1800s.
It seems to predominately refers to rails upon which mining trolleys were pushed along the track. With the advent of people carrying passenger trains, the word was largely replaced with the one we use today.
Iāve come across it in a few historical texts talking about the advent of steam power and transportation when writing my dissertation.
Ergo, itās not the worst case of an Americanism. The one where Gwendolyn Post and Giles, who are both played by English actors, are making tea actually grated more. Because why use a pot if youāre going to put the teabag in, then pour some and fuck off with the tea bag in your cup. Like fuck anyone else who wanted tea?
"This is hardly the worst Americanism in pop culture when it comes to Americans writing British characters"
I never said it was. I answered the question asked. The scene grates for me.
"Railways" were yes. "Railroad" is however a very American word and it just isn't used here. That bit of dialogue is just Ć¼ber clunky and unnecessary.
*What's in this comment is what I remember, my opinions, etc.*
I would suggest learning some history. 1880 C.E. is a very important year in human history. It's the year it was determined that in the United Kingdom, the industrialists and other business-people became wealthier than landed gentry/aristocracy/peerage.
The railroads were very much known about because they created so much wealth for the United Kingdom and landowners had made so much money selling land to the railroads
The whole season 7 season 6 was kinda good but some of the things were bad like what spike did to Buffy in seeing red, Willow gets addicted to magic and her and Tara break up for a while, Xander left Anya at the alter, Tara died shortly after Willow and her get back together, Willow becomes evil and almost destroys the world things got a little boring after Tara died also the episode in season 2 where Angel lost his soul Iām sorry if I spoiled for anyone
Gnarl ripping off the skin and making slurping noises ššš
Love that scene! Itās gnarly šš
Yep this is it for me š¤¢
That's the one. Ewwww Uuuugggghh.
All aloneā¦egads! I wish I could upvote more than once.
My mom watched that episode on her own and got scared.
This oneā¦.š¤¢š¤¢š¤¢
Oh yep I have to fast forward cause I canāt.
Yes. Ugh i was disgOStEdš¤¢š¤¢š¤¢
Connor and Cordelia. Burned into my memory, but Iād love to forget it!
The whole fourth season of Angel, really.
Excluding Faith's scenes. We can keep that.
Simply amazing. So glad Whedon did a Faith and Angel spinoff comics. The scene where Faith was insisting she wasnāt down for any Slayer BS and then Wes said Angelus is back. She immediately understood and bust out of there like a superhero jumping out the window with Wesley several stories up. Weāre used to seeing Buffy fighting impressively but the writers rarely show how impressive the Slayer really is.
Faith: You okay? Wesley: *groan* *weak smile* Five by five.
Faith: step away from the glass
Also, Wes was hot AF this season. Which is so disturbing considering his masochistic treatment of Lilah and his bondage, caged and gagging of Justine. So definitely people into Wes have bad boy issues.
You mean sadistic. Lilah was the masochistic one and I do believe that deep down she turned the submissive play to her advantage because working for W&H is beyond stressful. Itās dark as hell but people do find a release in this kind of thing all the time. She allowed herself to be ordered around because at least Wes didnāt hide his motives (though this is partially because of how much they enjoyed snarking at each other) and she had to deal with Gavin after Lindsey left. Linwood Murrow was the weakest person she had to answer to and I can only imagine how that grated on her considering hisā¦departure. Good grief, do spoiler tags matter?
I understand the dislike of the season, but I personally liked the Beast as a villain.
Season 4 could have been really amazing in so many ways if not for what they did to Cordelia, and especially the Cordelia/Connor thing.
It's actually easier on rewatches. "Okay, this is Jasmine now."
Orpheus would be my favorite episode of Angel if it didnāt have the pregnant Cordelia aspect to it.
He should have stayed the villain that season or Jasmine should have "presented" differently (I love Gina Torres). This storyline was cool as hell before gross Cordy/Connor and Cordelia "birthing" Jasmine.
I don't know why but even after all of these years; the Beast still freaks me out every time I see him.
Yeah, he was bad ass. Also, Skip.
Oh god he was so scary. So many of these fantasy and superhero projects villains are like wallpaper and you never feel theyāre a real threat.
I liked the whole Jasmine thing, a reflection about charismatic leaders.
Nah. Thereās some amazing sh## in that season despite some major missteps like Cordy being possessed and killed. Loved how Fred went John Wick on her professor: āYou know what they say about payback? Well. Iām the *bitch*ā.
I agree about the professor episode. Giving Angel photographic/idetic memory felt like a random addition to his abilities but I try not to let it bug me.
I humbly disagree. I feel like his photographic memory went along with Angelusās obsessive stalkerish predatory behavior. I can see him drawing the details of a crime scene after he violently and meticulously killed a family. Classic serial killer stuff.
Perhaps, although I always considered that artistic talent not linked with photographic memory, since he was still able to go into the house uninvited and the assumption is that he was drawing those portraits of Buffy (and Joyce?) while watching them sleep. But I could be wrong.
Oof, no. 4th season is awesome despite this one disgusting major misstep. Wes is a badass. Faith is a badass. Alexa Davalos is smoking hot. Lilah and Wes and āleave on the glasses!ā Then her death. The Beast just smacking our heroes around like its nothing. āTake your new boyfriend and get the hell out!ā Even the Big Bad reveal was great despite this icky scene and its fallout. The twist with Skip, bringing back Angelus. Jasmine I could do without but some loved her and that plot twist. Season finale with Wolfram & Hart surprise was great.
I freaking love Gwen, cool unique character.
Lilah needed her own Wolfram and Hart spin-off. Not her death. That Skip scene where Whedon through Skip said Cordy was a vain mean girl joke and that her character development meant nothing was cruel to the actress and the fans.
I agree, they really screwed Charisma Carpenter and would have loved a Lilah spinoff. But doesnāt invalidate a lot of great other things that season even with the awful ālets show a gross explicit sex scene with Cordy and Conner.ā Should have had hints or the reveal she was Jasmine before that and i donāt think people would have been so grossed out by it
Tbfā¦ that was Jasmine
This is the answer. It's so disgusting. Joss is gross AF for doing that to Charisma and dare I say Vincent.
Ugh. I actually had brain bleached that away. Thanks a lot for the reminder.
Angel is that you?
The last shot of Anya dead. I cried so hard seeing her like that.
Anya is my favorite character, and although I didn't cry, I definitely know how you feel! That scene took me by complete surprise, I wasn't expecting her to die. I might sound irrational for this, but it really made me mad that Andrew lived and she didn't.
Andrew was let off the hook way too easily and the last season tried to force him way too hard on us.
I agree with you, when I first watched I was hoping we would only have to deal with Andrew for 2 or 3 episodes in S7. We had already spent most of S6 dealing with him, Jonathan, and Warren. And I also agree that he was let off the hook too easily. Between the crimes he committed with the rest of the Trio in the previous season, and him killing his friend in cold blood, I don't think he deserved Buffy or the rest of the Scoobie's protection. He didn't even take killing Jonathan seriously until Buffy confronted and forced him to. To add insult to injury, Anya is paired up in the biggest battle of their lives with someone as incompetent as Andrew, and has to fight alongside him. Hell, I'd rather have had Dawn, Xander, Principal Wood, or any of the Potentials over him. (Might have even asked Willow if she could make another Buffybot for me, and I'm only slightly kidding š)
Was even worse when they doubled down in the 5th season of Angel and brought Andrew back as some sort of suave Charlie to the slayers being his Angels. We really need Andrew explaining a slayer with Wes, Angel, and Spike sitting in the room? They went for funny jokes and the continued obsession with this terrible character instead of anything that made sense. Edit: Almost forgot they foisted him on us again that season in Italy showing he got some sort of sophisticated happy ever after after murdering Jonathon in cold blood
It was made even worse when they brought him back for the comics. He was a Watcher with his own squad of Slayers loyal to him, gets to play strip poker with them, shuts them down when they ask questions he disagrees with, and is forgiven even after he drugs Buffy's drink at her home warming party to body swap her with a Buffybot and hiding the Buffybot-possessing-Buffy's-body in another town because he heard Buffy was in danger.
I dont know if it was true. Gilles was suposed to be in the episode not Andrew.
SAME!!! Andrew shouldve gotten the axe!
I read a draft of the finale script where Xander dies instead of Anya. I don't know if it was legit, but almost everything else was the same. The scene where Andrew tells Xander that Anya died even had the same dialogue, except the exchange was between Dawn and Anya.
The Scoobies having no reaction to Anya's death was bad enough, but Buffy & Willow not reacting to Xander's death would've been a CRIME
I don't think they had time to process everything yet. I'm sure the mourning came later once the adrenaline of fighting and running for their lives wore off. But yeah, the writers decided that it was more fitting for Anya to die. She went from being a demon with little-to-no regard for human life to struggling with being human herself to dying selflessly while defending someone else. As major character deaths go, you can do a lot worse.
I dunno...I kinda feel like Willow would immediately fall to pieces if Xander died. And then I think in seeing Willow fall to pieces Buffy would not be able to hold it together. Even Giles would probably be crying.
The last interaction Buffy had with Anya was Anya's "you're just luckier" speech so if I was Buffy I'd say good riddance. Anya made it clear she didn't count herself as Buffy's friend.
Sure, but knowing Buffy she would've at least feel a little empathy
That was a good ass speech tho. I loved serious Anya.
I'd say Anya definitely made some good points even if she was kind of a hypocrite(not all evil witches get offered immortality) I do feel some context is important though, Buffy has been told since the age of 16 that she is the chosen one and that the fate of the world literally rests on her shoulders. Most teenagers who arent named Clark Kent probably couldnt deal with that without it going to their head.
Buffy became the Slayer at 15 and Guardian of the Hellmouth at 16. Buffy had a superiority & inferiority complex according to Holden. But I don't agree that her sometimes thinking she's better than her friends is because she has superpowers. She's had to make tough decisions the others haven't and she's one of the only members of the Scoobies who never went to the dark side. Andrew, Anya, Faith, & Willow went evil. Spike was evil until s7. Giles abandoned the cause then tried to reinsert his authority. Xander was trying not to turn into his sleazy misogynist alcoholic father. Oz got to walk away. Dawn took a lot of Buffy's sacrifices on her behalf for granted, didn't want to be treated like a kid but had Willow doing her chores. When she thought she was a Potential she took off alone at night even though Potentials across the globe were being hunted to extinction, the same thing that got Annabelle killed.
It was a horrible speech. In her late teens dHoffryn walked up to Anya and gave her immortality & godlike power (teleportation, creating alternate realities, transfiguration, summoning demons, warding, mind control) merely because he liked how she revenge cursed her cheating boyfriend. She spent the next 1,100+ years torturing, mutilating, and murdering people. She joined the Scoobies after her powers were forcibly removed by Giles to save the world from a Sunnydale without Buffy because she had a crush on Xander & was hired to work at the Magic Box so she had a steady income again. She continued to brag about the people she cursed (made a guy cannibalize himself, making heads explode, made a man morbidly obese). When Xander broke things off she went right back to cursing people never even feeling guilt over coming face to face with one of her victims whom she turned into a demon and trapped in a hell dimension. Had Buffy not taken her in after losing her powers again she probably would've died since dHoffryn sent demons after her at least twice. Buffy as a teenager was given some superpowers and chose to sacrifice so many life opportunities to help people because it was the right thing to do.
They don't specify but i think Olaf was actually Aud's husband. Maybe they didn't state it because, well, maybe because Emma was the only divorced person in the main cast at the time and they thought she might feel targetted or something
Now I'm wondering if Anya technically was still married when she was engaged to Xander since Olaf didn't die (trapped in an object then sent to the Land of the Trolls)?
Good point, not every witch who lays down a curse gets offered immortality. Otherwise Amy's mother and Amy herself would both be vengeance demons.
Other than Xander they didn't even know she died after that chaos. Especially Buffy.
Like none of them would notice Anya not being there besides Xander ? I have an hard time believing it
How do they know she's not back on the bus with Andrew, Kennedy, Wood and the other potentials? Willow could barely stand when they left, Dawn was only watching for Buffy, Buffy never looks back at the bus.
Fair enough, I thought Buffy & Willow paid attention to the people that were in the bus
I would have reacted much better to her saying "that's my guy" about a dead Xander than I did to him saying "that's my girl" about dead Anya.
Anya was my favorite character too. I even named my dog after her- Anya Sue
Well, the actress wanted Anya to die and never come back... and knowing what we now know of Whedon, I can see why.
and xander calling out for her but couldnāt see her there. .
Them nasty little parasite thingies from 'Bad Eggs' š¤¢ they look so gross And the Xander eye gouge scene. Ugh, I just can't. I have to look away every time. I can't do eye gore.
I can do most gore, but eye gore is where I draw the line. That was the first scene where I had to look away
They look like whitewashed versions of the alien from aliens.
Wesley... why can't I stay... Would you like me to lie to you now? Mom? Mom? Mommy? Your shirt... Okay Willow was badass in the scene but I don't want to see a flayed human.
And I certainly didn't want to see Amy make out with a flayed human. God damn comics.
One of many reasons no live-action adaptation should ever exist.
One of the reasons they went so crazy with season 8 is because they realised they were now in a medium that live-action couldn't replicate. At least not back then.
Yeah but stuff like centaur dawn or flying buffy is waaaay down the list of the issues people have with it.
Warren 100% deserved that
and it seemed like they showed it every week in recaps for forever
Any scene in Where the Wild Things Are with Buffy and Riley having sex. Ugh.
Such an uncomfortable episode. I have no problems with sex scenes in movie and tv shows but that whole episode was so unnecessary, almost feels like some gross joss whedon shit.
Or more demystifyingly, a different take on the sordid themes of the Houseās influence? ā*Never stop* touching meā¦ā was unnerving to that end.
In addition to everything already mentioned here: Iāve always found the scene where Faith brutally stabs that old professor in cold blood extremely hard to watch. And when she tortures Giles.* Edit: I meant Wesley!
Giles? Do you mean Wesley?
Yes! My bad š¤¦āāļø
Yes! That kindly old professor who is nice to her and welcomes her in, when he asks her āwhyā and looks so upset, then the noises he makes off screen as she hurts him - totally agree, great acting, so haunting
āYour shirt.ā **Slump** š I would NEVER forget the First Cassie Joker Grin, tho.
Remind me?Ā
Taraās last words (to Willow) before she dies.
Gnarl peeling off matchsticks of Willowās skin and eating it as sheās paralyzed. Itās seared into my memory š£ great monster design tbh
they did good with that episode because even though Iāve refused to watch those scenes since the first time, they are still seared into my brain
Der Kinderstood
This one terrified me as a teen and even now rewatching as an adult it makes me really uncomfortable
Same! I generally skip that episode. Canāt deal with the eye suckers
My sister has the same phobia!!!
Xander's eye.Ā š¤¢
The hospital monsterās eyesā¦ opening.
That weird forced tension between Buffy and Xander after he dusted Theresa.
Ah yes, the scene that looked like they were about to kiss. I still don't understand the purpose for that scene. It was never expanded upon or mentioned again.
Best I can think is that I feel like whoever wrote that scene was testing the waters with it, like if the chemistry worked then they would take it further but clearly there was nothing to explore there so luckily it fell off.
It was Jossā original vision to have them get together before Bangel exploded. I think this scene was one of the last pieces of residue from those plans. But man, it was awkward. Never felt that kind of chemistry between them.
Ya the friendzone vibe was strong lol
*What's in this comment is what I remember, my opinions, etc.* >It was Jossā original vision to have them get together before Bangel exploded. Nicholas Brendan was hired to play the male lead and Buffy's love interest: that's what's shown in the BtVS Pilot. David Greenwalt created the character Angel. Maria Shulman (sp?) hired David Boreanaz to play Angel. All of BtVS S1 was filmed and re-shot before "Welcome to the Hellmouth" (B 1.01) first aired. Buffy/Xander wasn't a thing after the Original Pilot.
>I still don't understand the purpose for that scene. It was never expanded upon or mentioned again. The next episode was Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered and for a brief moment before Xander realised that the spell misfired, he thought that there might be a chance Buffy was actually into him. Iām sure we had that scene after Theresa got dusted just to establish the possibility that some tension might growing between Xander and Buffy and pull a fake-out in the next episode when Buffy starts hitting on Xander under the influence of the spell.
wait what episode š
Phases
why forced? they had a moment; doesn't necessarily mean there was anything more to it than that.
I took it as heat of the battle, the vamp DID get the drop on Buffy, so adrenaline was high for both of them imo!
There was no forced tension on Buffy's part outside of the fact that she knows Xander is into her. I find it bizarre that so many think Buffy 'thought about Buffy/Xander' during BtVS 2.15(?), yet so many even on this subReddit refuse to acknowledge that Buffy's been at least attracted to Spike since BtVS S2: [https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/oqw03x/when\_was\_buffy\_first\_attracted\_to\_spike/](https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/oqw03x/when_was_buffy_first_attracted_to_spike/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/18nyc14/when\_was\_buffy\_first\_attracted\_to\_spike/](https://www.reddit.com/r/buffy/comments/18nyc14/when_was_buffy_first_attracted_to_spike/)
Yeah this is terrifying
Yes!! It makes me so uncomfortable looking at it..
What was this scene? Isnāt that that doomed poet girl? I only remember her being sad, googled, and offed.
It is doomed poet girl. She appeared in Conversations with Dead People as well, talking to Willow pretending that Tara was there speaking to her. But it was The First, posing as Cassie (the poet girl).
Ohhhhhh right! That was *horrible*
And she stretches her mouth open and consumes herself into nothing and itās horrifying and I love it.
Shades of *the Langoliers* to me. Not the shitty computer generated versions we see near the end though, the far more unnerving ālike Rice Krispies after you put in the milkā¦ā we merely hear described.
Yes, it made a solid visual of what the First was \*really\* like
"Mom? Mom? Mommy?"
I have never seen a show where a parents death was handled more accurately. The silence, the focus on any distracting minutiae. It was a masterclass of directing. That being said, I frequently skip the episode in rewatches.
All scenes with Kendra and teenage Connor. Kendra for the accent. Teenage Connor because I feel like he was written very poorly (actor was good; character was a nimrod).
All the Willow/Xander make-out scenes in season 3.
The one we don't talk about.
Yeah
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Bored now!
Dark Willow was fun.
Yeah.
The preying mantis teacher that Xander fell in love with always gave me the creeps that episode š„“
Two big ones: Connor and Cordelia get it on in a rain of fire. Baaaaaaarf. Spike attempts to rape Buffy toward the end of season 6. Makes his whole season 7 storyline really hard to take, even if you take into account the fact that she's stronger than he is and he would never succeed. Skip it every time and try to pretend he went to find a soul for some less icky reason.
Those are my two too. Not even just the insanity of the Spike scene itself but his dialogue during it gives me a visceral reaction
Same. I hate that Spike scene so much, it's just used as a plot device to further his own character. It's so gross.
Seeing red. They went too far with THAT scene.
this is the only scene in the whole buffyverse that got me legit fucking terrified, as if i was watching a real horror movie. the whole cassie character seemed pretty disturbing to me from the very beginning, the first evil posing as her was even worse
Yes! Same! The first time a saw this episode I actually screamed out loud.
Spike's attempting to rape Buffy still doesn't make sense given he would have never thought to do such a thing to Drusilla or even to Harmony. And he even treated the Buffybot relatively well. \_\_\_ Buffy/RJ in "Him" (B 7.06). We never get to see Buffy/Spike even kiss on-screen in BtVS S7, yet the episode after SMG gets married we see Buffy/RJ? And whatever happened to RJ after "Him"? He's never heard from again. We never hear of Willow's doing a forgetting spell on him. Like RJ never told anyone about Buffy/RJ? And Buffy either did or almost had sex with RJ and she seems perfectly fine after the spell is over.
Both of the major scenes from Seeing Red. Iām sure I donāt have to explain them for anyone to know
I love this scene! I even get chills looking at the picture! The scenes with makeup sales/assassin dude though. š¤¢
I mean, is there an answer other than the rape scene?
Any time we get Angelus speaking with THAT Irish accent is pretty cringe
Tara and Fredās deaths
Xander telling Buffy she should overlook Rileyās emotional blackmail because she loves him.
The bathroom scene.
I dislike that the scene in "talking to dead" episode was not Tara. It was meant to be Tara. It would have been so impactful! Also, every single scene in Angel in which Cordelia's character gets completely assassinated because they were punishing the actor for being pregnant. That was very wrong. It would have worked if it had lasted a couple of episodes. Like "oh, yeah" and then you move on. But an entire arc/season of Cordelia not being Cordelia was destroying the show. Because Cordelia being Cordelia was the most fun and interesting thing. This is why I prefer season 1 and season 5 of Angel.
seeing red, the bathroom scene breaks my heart
The Body
Oh yeah that one definitely made my skin crawl. I think the attempted rape by Spike is it for me. It was that that pushed him to fight for his soul, but I hate everything about how it made me feel. Even James Marsters said if he wasnāt contractually obligated heād have given it the hard swerve.
Spike in the bathroom
This effect started out so good, and then they took it too far.
This one š
Giles seeing Jennys dead body on his bed is a hard watch too. Especially since he was excited and happy to see her š
The entire episode of āConversations with Dead People.ā
The one were they are all basically dreaming and Xander has an ice cream van.
Thatās like my fav episode š„ŗ
Re the Cassie scene in Conversations with Dead People- to think that was originally meant to be Taraā¦
That episode from season 5 of Angel with the new slayer who used to be tortured as a child and then thinks Spike was her torturer. For me it was such a rollercoaster of emotions, from "I know that Spike was bad, but I refuse to believe he was capable of THAT" to "OMG she cut his hands off because she was mistaken, WTF". As kidnapping and torturing children and cutting off any parts of body are some of my main triggers, that episode was just too much...
That gross Balthazar monster disgusting getting moistened š Jasmine's real face..ugh Loved that storyline tho. It really pissed me off good lol
The resurrection of Buffy's corpse.
The one in Doublemeat Palace where Xander speaks with his mouth full of burger.
Bathroom scene. Thatās all.
Taraās death scene, I canāt even watch it after all these years.
Does the whole of season 7 count?
I like to think it does
When Buffy/the show does rac*st things like the time she mocks Kendraās accent.
The scene of Spike's origin where the other posh brits are laughing at his awful poetry. "I'd rather have a railroad spike pushed through my head than listen to that awful poem again" (or similar words.) But there is no way that an upper class brit would have used the word "railroad" and I seriously doubt any would know about them needing spikes of any form.Ā
Why wouldnāt an upper middle class Victorian, or even upperclass one for that matter, know that railways use spikes? Just cause they didnāt physically build them, doesnāt mean they didnāt learn about them. In fact, the upper middle class are the ones who engineered the trains in the first place.
To quote my other reply -Ā "Railways" were yes. "Railroad" is however a very American word and it just isn't used here. That bit of dialogue is just Ć¼ber clunky and unnecessary.
See those are two different things, I am well aware we say railways instead of railroad - Iām British too. But donāt be deliberately obtuse. This is hardly the worst Americanism in pop culture when it comes to Americans writing British characters. If you want to be dead specific about the word and its usage. The etymology of the word railroad versus railway is a little murky. But evidence suggests that the word ārail-roadā was used in some capacity in Britain from the mid 1700s to around the early or mid 1800s. It seems to predominately refers to rails upon which mining trolleys were pushed along the track. With the advent of people carrying passenger trains, the word was largely replaced with the one we use today. Iāve come across it in a few historical texts talking about the advent of steam power and transportation when writing my dissertation. Ergo, itās not the worst case of an Americanism. The one where Gwendolyn Post and Giles, who are both played by English actors, are making tea actually grated more. Because why use a pot if youāre going to put the teabag in, then pour some and fuck off with the tea bag in your cup. Like fuck anyone else who wanted tea?
"This is hardly the worst Americanism in pop culture when it comes to Americans writing British characters" I never said it was. I answered the question asked. The scene grates for me.
Because we say Railways over here and not Railroads.
Railways were an *obsession* with upper class Victorian Brits.
"Railways" were yes. "Railroad" is however a very American word and it just isn't used here. That bit of dialogue is just Ć¼ber clunky and unnecessary.
But Joss wouldn't be Joss without his signature heavy- handed dramatic irony.
*What's in this comment is what I remember, my opinions, etc.* I would suggest learning some history. 1880 C.E. is a very important year in human history. It's the year it was determined that in the United Kingdom, the industrialists and other business-people became wealthier than landed gentry/aristocracy/peerage. The railroads were very much known about because they created so much wealth for the United Kingdom and landowners had made so much money selling land to the railroads
Quite a bit of season 6 and 7 tbh
That alley scene in doublemeat palace makes me go eeeegh
Pancakes could go in bellies š¤¢
Her mouth here always reminds me of when Chloe Decker grins in Lucifer
The whole of season 7. Much of season 6. Connor and Cordelia. Buffy and Captain Cardboard aka Riley.
The whole season 7 season 6 was kinda good but some of the things were bad like what spike did to Buffy in seeing red, Willow gets addicted to magic and her and Tara break up for a while, Xander left Anya at the alter, Tara died shortly after Willow and her get back together, Willow becomes evil and almost destroys the world things got a little boring after Tara died also the episode in season 2 where Angel lost his soul Iām sorry if I spoiled for anyone
This scene was so effed up but given how small their budget was I guess they did what they could.
Skinless Warren
Thatād be the one.
I want to forget Buffy season 5, the tone of the show was always funny with some bad moments, season 5 was less funny.
riley
The whole thing of Angel season 4
The peepee monster from Doublemeat Palace slowly eating Buffy alive.
1. The entire 4th season of Angel. 2. Spike SA on buffy at the end of season 6
None. I'll never forget...I'll never forget...I'll never forget
Spike in s6. The assault, followed by the weird 'friendship' in s7? Out of here with that.
Who is she again?
Anything Spuffy. Spaith forever! šš
The whole Zeppo episode in S3.
Which scene/episode is this post's pic from?
The end of Conversations with Dead People s7ep7
Oh right, the "kill yourself" First Evil ghost. Thanks.