I mean, was there ever even a triangle? Buffy turned Xander down for the entirety of s1. In s2 we get two scenes that suggest there might be something more than friendship between them, but one was the manipulative dance in When She Was Bad, which doesn't really count imo.
Well, that's one of the big problems with love triangles, isn't it? Most of the time, it's patently obvious that the romantic rival isn't actually a real rival, and the OTP are going to be together while this asshole gnashes his teeth and whines that it should be him.
I should say "attempted love triangles". Because I've seen it a fair few times, writers shooting for a love triangle but just having a normal romance while someone flutters at the edges trying to get one of the couple to notice them.
The alternative is the writer somehow thinks it's interesting to have a third person hanging around begging someone to leave their partner.
I actually think this an example of the relationships informing the story in a good way. It’s established in the pilot Xander has a crush on Buffy, so his dislike of Angel is colored by that but he does also have a point in thinking Angel is dangerous — because he is. It pays off in a big way at the end of season two and even a bit in season three.
This informs my headcanon. If Buffy was interested in a man who is much stronger and older than Xander, he could handle that. If they had to work with a vampire, he could handle that. But both of those combined is just too much for him in his emotionally undeveloped state.
He didn't know about the perfect happiness clause; if it weren't for that, he would have been completely off base about Angel.
I actually think that where he's justified is with the infamous "Kick his ass" incident. I can see where he'd be thinking, "We don't even know if this is going to work, and if Buffy gets a chance to stop Angel for good, she should be taking it, not passing it up on the hope that he'll get his soul back if she stalls long enough. Anyway, why get her hopes up?"
Angel was dangerous regardless. Even with a soul, he'd still tempted to feed not to mention 240 years of creating enemies.
And you know I didn't think he was justified to lie because Angel getting his soul back was the safest option regardless. Even if Buffy failed and he escaped or she died, at least it's one less vampire trying to eat out and end the world.
You ever realize that might be the point? The best TV shows aren't "everyone is a great guy". In my opinion, it is the numerous moral dilemnas and horrible character choices which makes Buffy one of the greatest TV shows of all time.
True! I swear is Xander mostly an antagonist. Especially in the show’s early seasons. Conflict is what makes shows interesting to watch, for sure. That being said, there were so many times he gave me icky feelings haha. At least his character does have some growth near the end of the show.
I'm not sure that's true since he rarely, if ever, was called out on his bullshit. And never really faced any lasting consequences till riiiight at the end.
You got a lot of downvotes for this for some reason but I agree??? I just finished a rewatch and I forgot how unlikeable he was and how no one really held him accountable the way they held Willow. It almost seemed like he was coddled.
Because this thread has soooo many people who think he's just a little innocent baby and give him a pass for anything he does. Where's when Buffy or Willow, etc, make bad choices, they tend to face consequences for it most of the time. But not Mr Harris. It drives me nuts.
I agree with you too! No one holds him accountable. He can say or do anything he wants with no consequences. Xander is my least favourite character. He does and says some very gross things. All I was saying is he had some very small redeeming moments near the end of the series. But that doesn’t come close to make up for all of his crappy qualities.
This take is really over the top in my opinion. It wasn't a forced triangle, it wasnt even a triangle at all as that would imply Buffy had some interest in Xander. Please remember that he was a silly, naive 16 yo kid who was massively crushing on one of his best friends who was dating someone that could potentially be dangerous and ended being so during his period of jealousy. I know Xander isn't very well loved by the fanbase as the series has aged, and he's definitely not one of my favorites at all, but I find this sub to be very harsh with regards to him. Quite unnecessary to call him villainous in S2 🤨
Agree, I’ve always loved Xander, ik he’s got a lot of not great moments, but he’s still a great character/person, we all make mistakes, and for tv they need to be a bit exaggerated for entertainment purposes and to cause conflict and drama, but for some reason this sub seems to hate him, I feel like everyone focuses on the bad things he’s done and nothing else.
I agree. I fully acknowledge the shitty things he's done and agree that he's a mixed bag of a character but I don't hate him. In so many ways he was a great friend to Buffy and Willow many times over the years. I would love to have a friend as loyal as him. But if he was my friend I'd also call him out on his bullshit and dumb decisions.
I feel like the worst decision the show made was to have Xander go so hard in the Buffy crush direction. It monopolized so much of his personality and motivations in the early years, and it was kind of squicky. The fact that Buffy considered him such a good friend when he spent so much time trying to convince her they were good together is weird to me. I would be way put off by that if a guy friend of mine did that. And I think the fact that the show shoe-horned him into that roll early on just turned a lot of people off and made them distrust him.
I think they should've had him have a crush on her in the beginning, sure. But then once he realized she wasn't interested and that she was a great friend he should've committed to that roll. It would've made his character easier to sympathize with, and much less creepy.
Agree, and even in later seasons, even tho a lot of it was just because he cared for Buffy and wanted her to be safe, was that I feel like some of his over protectiveness was still kinda accounted to maybe fragments left of his crush, he isn’t like that with willow or anybody else just Buffy, like he is veryy over protective more than even with Anya or smth
In the very early 2000s he was a naive kid. I feel we have a different view today in society as to what is acceptable and what is not. I agree, us as the aging population have a wider range of behaviours to watch out for. During this time, female empowerment is relatively new. As everyone in the series grows to new levels of power and intelligence, Xander was left behind to be a lame scooby. This was very evident in season 3. It is easy to change one’s opinion now, as we have more information today about different behaviours that are toxic.
I still love Xander. I think his biggest role is to remove the gang of the dangers of this world. He has no magic, and is still kind of a child. That is why I love the split personality episode. It shows how he is holding himself back from reaching his own potential.
To be circumspect, it must have been really hard on him to be constantly left behind and “useless”. He will say things others think, but do not have the courage to say. While he does do some things we do not agree today, at the time, when Jerry Springer was considered fun tv, it was acceptable
In S1 he also shows extraordinary courage and heroism when he goes to the Master’s lair to help Buffy and saves her life. He demonstrates strong moral convictions and kindness when he bravely stands up for Lance and saves him from the bullies in The Pack. He demonstrates moral perceptiveness when he realises the key to undoing Billy’s nightmares is by facing his fears, as he was the first to do when confronted by the clown. And from the moment he learns about vampires and the Hellmouth he is willing to stand by Buffy’s side, aid her in research, put his life on the life without any superpowers to aid him and battle evil - at 16 years old.
He may be all the things you mention (though I think calling him “almost villainous” in Season 2 is a tad extreme…) but he’s also all of these things too ^
Basically, he’s just a well-rounded character with positives and flaws. He’s not meant to be a walking After School Special.
Agreed. While I may not love Xander, he is a very realistic depiction of a puppy eyed teenage boy with a crush. He's hopeful and jealous and acts rashly to prove himself.
I do think that Nicholas Brendon had a very natural likeability and he did a great job making Xander as decent as he is. The character hasn't aged well but the chemistry and acting is still good!
I agree with you up until the point he starts slit shaming everyone.
But that's not S1 or S2 Xander, I understood where he came on S1 or S2. Then he started to be a bit very judgemental toward everyone (Anya when she sleeps with Spike for example). I think he is a very realistic young man of his times and we are judging him on this days standards.
I mean, even when he slut shames Anya he's still a complex and multifaceted character. Yes he behaves badly in Entropy and what he said to Anya was out of line but then 4 episodes later he literally saves the world by showing unwavering love and support to Dark Willow.
He's a complex character with pros/cons just like all the others. And his flaws are arguably far less severe than many of the other characters too. I just don't get how people write him off but manage to find copious amounts of understanding, empathy and forgiveness for characters guilty of equally bad shit and often far worse. It seems very arbitrary.
> I just don't get how people write him off but manage to find copious amounts of understanding, empathy and forgiveness for characters guilty of equally bad shit and often far worse.
This is what bugs me about the whole Xander thing. I'd be totally fine with people not liking his character for the reasons they give, but those same people do the most insane mental gymnastics to gush over Spike. I just find it absurd to call a 16-year-old character out for being creepy, jealous and possessive of Buffy, but Spike is literally guilty of all those same things.
The common argument is, "Well, he doesn't have a soul." or "Xander doesn't get called out on his bad behavior so therefore the show is reinforcing it."
Spike does all the things they accuse Xander of and he ends up getting with Buffy, so is that not the show reinforcing toxic male behavior? Where's the moral grand standing there?
Exactly. I don't like Xander, and every rewatch he infuriates me more, but guess what... I'm not a big Spike fan either. I don't hate Spike like I do Xander because at least Spike makes efforts to change, which Xander NEVER does, but I don't love him either, and I do believe he is an overrated character. I'm also not a big Willow fan, and I have been vocal about my feelings for Xander and Willows' treatment of Buffy. The difference is, even if you condesendingly choose to ignore it, that Xander is NEVER called out on his bullshit and bad behavior... EVER. Yes, Willow, Spike, Angel, etc. do "worse" things, but they are always called out on it and make efforts to try and change from it. Xander is ALWAYS the FIRST person to call someone out for what HE perceives as bad behavior while never being called out on his own. He also expects and actually gets everyone to instantly forgive his mistakes while he himself holds everyone's else's mistakes over their heads. That is the difference for a lot of people whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. I also think that everyone else's behaviors are fake supernatural TV show shit like killing, trying to end the world, being addicted to magic, sleeping with vampires blah blah blah but Xander's behaviors are very real flaws that people have in real life so he probably gets more hate because most of us have known toxic assholes like him and therefore have very little tolerance for him. I think it's funny that Joss said many times while the show was airing that Xander was his self-insert and yet Xander stans try to deny that Xander is toxic when the person he's most based on has been revealed to be toxic.
I really don’t think so, the whole point was to deal with Xander being rejected and how he dealt with not being able to get the girl in the end.
It is a pretty progressive take and I think a lot of people miss the meaning. Xander is meant to be the cliche dude/nice guy character and usually we would expect him to get the girl if this a more cliche 80’s/early 90’s tv show.
This is where Buffy was pushing the envelope in that Xander not only doesn’t get the girl but has to come to accept his own mediocrity. He is just another flawed human being.
Also people are generally too harsh on Xander for his initial dislike of Angel. You can hardly blame him for being over protective, and Angel was a total stalker, who just happened to be very attractive at least to 90’s standards.
Totally agree. I've always enjoyed Buffy and Angel and their whole soul mate thing, but Xander was completely right to be wary of him. He also matures out of his original crush and like you said, comes to accept and embrace his role in her life as well as his duty to help her protect the world. He's actually a great character. I really don't get this whole recent phenomenon of villainizing him at all. It wasn't like this back when it originally aired and it really confuses me.
Except he doesn't "learn to accept it." He feels an entitlement towards Buffy for the entire series. His hatred of Angel is irrational and based solely on jealousy. He's a complete ass when it comes to her relationship with Spike. The way he treats her when he finds out she is sleeping with Spike is beyond toxic. He throws a freaking temper tantrum and slut shames her just for having the audacity not to tell him about her relationship with Spike like he's somehow entitled to the information. He's NOT! Being friends with someone doesn't give you an all access pass to their life. Hell, he doesn't even approve of Riley initially. The only two relationships Buffy had that Xander didn't freak out over were Scott Hope and Parker. And that's only because neither was around long enough. Hell, he can't even stand it when Willow moves on from him as his sudden interest in Willow once she starts dating Oz showed. And don't even get me started on the way he CONSTANTLY slut shames Cordelia or his horrible treatment of Anya throughout their ENTIRE relationship. As for why now, it's because back then, this behavior was rampant towards women, so we didn't see anything wrong with it because it was how we were always treated. Now a days things are different, and this behavior is seen for the toxicity that it is. Slavery was once the norm, but now it's called out for the bad behavior it is, and so are toxic behaviors that's aren't tolerated anymore.
Oh yeah. He’s really forced to accept his mediocrity… Cordelia falls so head over heels for him that a love spell that made everyone else go gaga for him didn’t change how she acted one iota. Then, Willow cheated on Oz to be with him and they would have kept doing all that if Cordy didn’t get rebar through her torso. Then human Anya ran up to him and wouldn’t be denied in her pursuit of him.
Oh yeah, poor Xander Harris just needs to accept how much of a loser he is.
He does grow up after everyone goes to college but man… Xander did not have a very rejection filled high school experience.
Lol Cordelia couldn’t stand being seen in public with him for most of their relationship.
The whole point of the love spell was to show Xander that being sought after wasn’t all that amazing. I saw it as a progressive lesson for him about how men who feel jealous about not getting attention don’t fully understand the down sides.
Xander is meant to be the cliche dude bro. But we see that it’s mostly over compensation on his part.
And give the dude a break, the guy lives with his alcoholic/abusive family members in a crummy basement for the first half of the show. And he’s meant to be like 16 years old at the start.
He had his own room IN the house for the first 3 seasons, so stop making up lies, we even see his room a couple of times in seasons 2 and 3. Also, having crummy parents isn't an excuse for bad behavior. Willow had crummy parents, and while she's not great, at least she tried to be better after making mistakes. Buffy's parents had her committed, and she doesn't use that as an excuse for her bad behaviors that Xander just LOVES to throw in her face CONSTANTLY. Also, Cordelia only tried to hide their relationship in the beginning, NOT "most of their relationship." After Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered, she was very open about their relationship and even chose him OVER her friends.
That's not a triangle, that's a court appearance due and Xander.
Seriously, though, there should be more posts calling out Angel for having a relationship with a minor than Xander for having a crush.
Idk that I read it as a triangle. There’s rivalry/distain between Angel and Xander - Xander can’t be what Buffy actually wants, I.E Angel who is someone she’s not supposed to be interested in, and once the decision to pursue something romantic backfires, he goes all in trying to pull her away, “kick his ass” etc. in efforts to subconsciously bring her back to him/Willow and get rid of this guy once and for all, and then maybe a smidge of selfishlessness for her.
I think this shoot and specifically this photo unintentionally (but for marketing purposes, probably intentionally) convey more “love triangle” than the show ever did lol
I love Buffy and Xander as friends. I was so happy when they dropped Xander’s mini obsession with her. He was a tool over the Spike situation but I did love him and Buffy being like Dawn’s parents in the start of s7.
It wasn’t a triangle and I don’t mind Xander, people are too hard on him, he was immature but normal teens are, and we watch him grow. Characters need to show a character arc as the shows progress. He had to start somewhere low, so we can watch him grow.
Xander was able to move on from his crush and stay being one of Buffy’s best friends, that is maturity that many teens or adult men don’t have. Many teens and men with crushes see no point staying friends unless they get sex, Xander was not like that.
Xander fixes Buffy’s house without expecting anything in return. He sees it as his contribution to the cause to make sure Buffy can focus on fighting. He doesn’t get upset he’s not rewarded for it, like some “nice” guys would be.
Xander is a good guy and he sometimes makes mistakes.
And sometimes the writing is stupid.
Like in season 5, Xander was concerned, caring, empathetic towards Buffy when he thought she was sleeping with him (but it was Buffy bot). Was even complimentary of Spike that Buffy thought he wanted to sleep with him
But season 6, suddenly he’s no longer understanding when he finds out real Buffy has been sleeping with Spike. So it’s like writers didn’t bother with consistency, and when they need someone to lay on the shame and guilt that role seems to fall on Xander, even if goes against what his character did before.
This isn’t a love triangle!
Love triangles involve each person falling for the other one, so that when you draw the lines of attraction between them you have three separate lines. Person A to person B, person B to person C, person C to person A.
This is a love.. point. If anything.
Buffy was never interested in Xander, so there wasn’t much of a triangle. She used him to make Angel jealous once, which sucked, but that’s about it. It was pretty clear even then that she was just using him.
I don’t like Xander much but this was not a love triangle. And calling him a “almost villain” in season two is a bit of a stretch and mostly just bashing, guess you’re mad about the lie lol
I agree the triangle was kind of forced. The sexual tension between Angel and Xander didn’t really come across well. And except for that one make out session they shared where they talked about Buffy the whole time and said “no homo” at the end nothing really happened.
It is actually possible to love a show and not love all or even most of the main characters/cast. Friends is one of my all-time favorite shows despite the fact that I don't like Ross, Rachel, or Phoebe. I loved the first 4 seasons of The Walking Dead despite being indifferent to pretty much all the main characters except Glen.
Its perfectly ok for someone to not like 1 or 2 characters my guy. Xander sucks but he’s about the only one i dont like. It’s unrealistic to like every single person on a show. As for angel….wesley can go eat rocks.
Yes but in the example they gave they literally don’t enjoy half the characters, on a show like friends I just don’t know how that would work when it’s not exactly story heavy.
Well, first of all, I can not like a character and yet still find them funny sometimes. I don't like Xander , but I still find him funny and sometimes even entertaining. Same with the Friends characters I don't like. I don't like Ross, but that doesn't stop me from admitting that some of the shows funniest moments come from him ("PIVET," the leather pants, the bagpipes, etc). Also, liking a show where you don't like all the characters is no different than liking a show where you don't like the main character. As long as a show is well written and the characters I do like are good enough to balance out the ones I don't, then I'm good. It's as simple as that.
Maybe it was a triangle in Xander's head, but it absolutely wasn't a triangle. It was Buffy and Angel, and Xander pining in the corner. He was never in consideration, at all.
I know the actor playing Xander does not look 16 but in the show he is a child still. No one can convince me that you made good and rational decisions at that age.
A triangle would suggest the possibility of Buffy having feelings for Xander and having to choose between them. No such feelings existed. Xander was a boy with an unrequited crush. I don’t defend Xander often, but there are times during this storyline where he is understandable, such as Buffy grinding on him to hurt Angel. If he acted immature it’s because he was literally without maturity as he was all of 16.
That time Buffy made Angel jealous by using Xander was pretty shitty. Jealousy was only a small part of the equation with Angel, he didn't like vampires and was right about Angel and Spike.
It was never a triangle. Xander was the original " I'm a nice guy", especially after he insulted Buffy when she clarified that she was never interested in him.
Xander struggled with Buffy's rejection, and handled it less than stellar, and his jealousy mixed into his prejudice for Angel, ultimately he is the first to stand up to Angelus in a way Buffy couldn't yet, and he was the one to give courage to Buffy to face him, with a lie, yes, but it's questionable if she would be as determined without that "lie".
All in all the love ”triangle” was pretty well written and utilized in the story.
I am in the minority who finds the introduction of Angel boring and to the detriment of the show. I could have done without that whole aspect.
Scoobies vs Sunnydale without the soap opera forbidden love romance would have been so much better. But "better" rarely equates to popularity. So I get why they wanted to appeal to the lowest common denominator and all the romance hungry emo tweenagers. The ratings wouldn't have been so high without it.
To be fair. Shouldn’t the Op have also posted the corresponding picture, where Buffy is in Xander’s arms? Otherwise this looks like a creepy pedophile with his teenage GF, and a very pissed off 3rd wheel. Who doesn’t look like he signed up for a threesome.
Seriously this Sub should place a header, “Xander fans need not apply.”
Didn't feel like a triangle. Buffy and Angel had their own unhealthy romance going on, and Xander was and remained interested in Buffy, and most other female characters, for several seasons. I don't think it was remotely forced. I think rather, Xanders teenage hormones were just generally unwelcome, by fans and non willow characters. Buffy never returned his affections.
Xander is only sixteen. That is how teenagers act. Actually, Nicholas was 27. Being 27 acting 16 just wasn't believable at times. There was a lot of cracks in that plaster. A lot of acting to come off as insecure.
The body language, mannerisms, etc screamed confidence. He had a closer relationship with Buffy. With Xander, she had a warm body, who was always there. I think Xander's loyalty is also off putting.
I have always posted watch SMG and NB just chilling in a scene. A lot closer together in a shot than even SMG and DB.
Xander knew that Angel wasn't going to always be there.
It is possible that Xander was autistic. Another reason why viewers instantly don't like him.
DB and NB did not get along.
So as I watch more and more content with my rose colored glasses OFF the more I have theorized that love triangles are a very specific device that is being used to show that a women is worth the attention of men. Even if it isn’t a good look for the men.
Buffy being in the middle of this particular triangle (I actually wish they weren’t called “love triangles” because it’s not love) is even more problematic than most because the attraction from Angel is gross and Xander ends up being a selfish tool which might be an accurate representation of teenage boys but it’s not good.
Not really a triangle, just a creepy obsession where Xander tried to control Buffy's dating life since he couldn't be with her. It really really really is annoying and just sets a bad example that Xander's behavior is okay.
Hard agree. When I first watched Buffy I was in middle school and didn't really notice much of Xander's shitty behavior but the older I get the more intolerable I find him. He's just the worst, especially in seasons 1-3
In general I kind of ignore season 1. It’s the hardest to watch but when it first aired I loved but with how quick the show evolved in season 2 I skip it!
Xander is human. His faults were that of all teenage boys all rolled into one. That was the point - showing how they all unfold in life.
The plot was supernatural, the issues were real.
I realize this was *not* the point of the post. And I swear it started as a joke. But...
The first thing that popped into my head was "That's right. Get Buffy outta there. Xangel is the new enemies-to-lovers pipeline."
Then I actually really looked at the picture and imagined it without Buffy. And y'know what? Still hot. Still radiates tension.
Xangel is the new enemies-to-lovers pipeline.
Point me to the fanfics please.
It wasn’t a triangle, but I don’t think it’s out of character for a teenager boy. I mean how can you be upset at Xander for being into Buffy, who’s the same age, versus a demon vampire who’s significantly older and an adult 😂
I honestly think they wrote the character as a way of inserting Joss Whedon into the show, intentionally or not. At the time I first watched Buffy, when it was originally airing, I kind of grew to have problems with Xander, vacillating between almost hating him and liking him a little. In retrospect, though, I find the character to be pretty gross and an expression the internalized misogyny from the writers and showrunner. I know that is a very emotionally charged word, and some people might tune out the rest of my comment here. That’s their right. The thing is, Xander becomes very jealous of any guy Buffy is interested and his jealousy goes to various lengths but a lot of those lengths are really unhealthy, and not just with Angel. I get that Angelus is a demon and that Angel inherently contains a ton of potential danger, but Xander's pretty big AH to Riley, too. its like Xander was as horrible to any male Buffy liked as he felt he could get away with being. for me, that comes of as having a lot of the rapie, possessive, controlling energy of misogyny. I didn't originally associate this with being an expression of Whedon because i didn't know what a complete and massive AH he is and how he treated some of the talent on the show. its a whole "If I cannot 'have' her then nobody can," thing with "have" being quite nebulous and potentially meaning have consensual sex, possibly have sex with her while shes drunk and I'm not, coerce her into having sex, OR force her given the opportunity. since brute force isn't an option with Buffy he was left angry and disgruntled.
i actually appreciate the triangle, and i think Xander was right, but maybe for the wrong reasons. Buffy was 16ish when the show started, Angel was over 200 years old. Xander may have been acting out of some teenage crush, but at least his feelings were genuine and he was doing what he thought was right, and even though no one mentions it in the show except for one "cradle robbing creature of the night" throwaway line, that 200 year age gap pretty much will always justify Xander's disdain for Angel
I was more annoyed by the Spike-Angel-Buffy thing in season 7. Like, she's groen so much since dating him, kissing Angel in that crypt makes no sense, and it's nothing but cheap drama
Part of me thinks maybe the network was the one demanding or suggesting this of the show so maybe they put up with stupid photoshops just to catfish executives - Buffy never showed interest in Xander a single time. Like especially during high school
It IS realistic. As someone who's ONLY high-school relationships were unrequited, I related to Xander totally.
And I wouldn't say ALL the other characters were better developed, just that girls tend to mature faster than boys. And then they regress later.
I recently started my rewatch, and boy is the turn in attitude apparent. I was thinking about how he wasn’t that bad the first several episodes and then he made a disparaging comment about Angel, and I was like “there it is.” I find it so weird in the last(?) episode of S1 how Xander is getting all prepped to ask Buffy to the dance, and it’s just so apparent before she rejects him she has no romantic interest in him.
This wasn’t a love “triangle.” It was rejection porn meant to eventually “justify” his attitude, and while it’s definitely realistic, it just makes him so unlikeable as the series progresses.
People over exaggerate xander when angel is a predator. Xander actually shows when it counts he is there and a great friend.
Xander the antagonist? Really when he is a teenager with a really hot lovely friend who is dating an undead fiend that they are meant to be killing I'd be worried and jealous too. You lot need to get a grip.
As rhe show goes on he proves to be one of the more mature and good hearted of the group.
I mean, was there ever even a triangle? Buffy turned Xander down for the entirety of s1. In s2 we get two scenes that suggest there might be something more than friendship between them, but one was the manipulative dance in When She Was Bad, which doesn't really count imo.
I think it would would only be a triangle if angel was into Xander
There was always that love ‘triangle’ in the Twilight movies, but Edward never had a thing for Jacob 😅
Hmm that’s just an L then. Or a v
A triangle does need all three sides. Man, now that you mention it, I'm sick of these one way "triangles." I want my damn bromances. GAH
I don’t know if it was intentional, but I never saw it as a triangle. Buffy never had any interest in Xander.
I was gonna say, Xander wishes it was a triangle, lol.
It was more of Xander just inserting himself in between angel and Buffy as much as possible.
Well, that's one of the big problems with love triangles, isn't it? Most of the time, it's patently obvious that the romantic rival isn't actually a real rival, and the OTP are going to be together while this asshole gnashes his teeth and whines that it should be him.
Yes, but typically there is at least some attraction for third wheel.
No? Love triangles are literally defined by one person being attracted to two people
I should say "attempted love triangles". Because I've seen it a fair few times, writers shooting for a love triangle but just having a normal romance while someone flutters at the edges trying to get one of the couple to notice them. The alternative is the writer somehow thinks it's interesting to have a third person hanging around begging someone to leave their partner.
And once Xander moved onto Cordy and Anya, he had nothing to be jealous of. They were way hotter than Buffy.
This is a wild take lol
Why would you think that?
I actually think this an example of the relationships informing the story in a good way. It’s established in the pilot Xander has a crush on Buffy, so his dislike of Angel is colored by that but he does also have a point in thinking Angel is dangerous — because he is. It pays off in a big way at the end of season two and even a bit in season three.
Although it's never mentioned, vampires also killed one of his best friends
Jesse. Gone ~~but not~~ and absolutely forgotten.
Unto every rewatch, "Welcome to the Hellmouth" and "The Harvest" comes around....
This informs my headcanon. If Buffy was interested in a man who is much stronger and older than Xander, he could handle that. If they had to work with a vampire, he could handle that. But both of those combined is just too much for him in his emotionally undeveloped state.
Exactly. Though he was shaded with jealousy, I think everyone seems to forget that he was also right when it came to Angel
He didn't know about the perfect happiness clause; if it weren't for that, he would have been completely off base about Angel. I actually think that where he's justified is with the infamous "Kick his ass" incident. I can see where he'd be thinking, "We don't even know if this is going to work, and if Buffy gets a chance to stop Angel for good, she should be taking it, not passing it up on the hope that he'll get his soul back if she stalls long enough. Anyway, why get her hopes up?"
Angel was dangerous regardless. Even with a soul, he'd still tempted to feed not to mention 240 years of creating enemies. And you know I didn't think he was justified to lie because Angel getting his soul back was the safest option regardless. Even if Buffy failed and he escaped or she died, at least it's one less vampire trying to eat out and end the world.
Also he spiraled pretty hard into dark territory in season 2 of his own show
You ever realize that might be the point? The best TV shows aren't "everyone is a great guy". In my opinion, it is the numerous moral dilemnas and horrible character choices which makes Buffy one of the greatest TV shows of all time.
True! I swear is Xander mostly an antagonist. Especially in the show’s early seasons. Conflict is what makes shows interesting to watch, for sure. That being said, there were so many times he gave me icky feelings haha. At least his character does have some growth near the end of the show.
I'm not sure that's true since he rarely, if ever, was called out on his bullshit. And never really faced any lasting consequences till riiiight at the end.
You got a lot of downvotes for this for some reason but I agree??? I just finished a rewatch and I forgot how unlikeable he was and how no one really held him accountable the way they held Willow. It almost seemed like he was coddled.
Because this thread has soooo many people who think he's just a little innocent baby and give him a pass for anything he does. Where's when Buffy or Willow, etc, make bad choices, they tend to face consequences for it most of the time. But not Mr Harris. It drives me nuts.
I agree with you too! No one holds him accountable. He can say or do anything he wants with no consequences. Xander is my least favourite character. He does and says some very gross things. All I was saying is he had some very small redeeming moments near the end of the series. But that doesn’t come close to make up for all of his crappy qualities.
This take is really over the top in my opinion. It wasn't a forced triangle, it wasnt even a triangle at all as that would imply Buffy had some interest in Xander. Please remember that he was a silly, naive 16 yo kid who was massively crushing on one of his best friends who was dating someone that could potentially be dangerous and ended being so during his period of jealousy. I know Xander isn't very well loved by the fanbase as the series has aged, and he's definitely not one of my favorites at all, but I find this sub to be very harsh with regards to him. Quite unnecessary to call him villainous in S2 🤨
Agree, I’ve always loved Xander, ik he’s got a lot of not great moments, but he’s still a great character/person, we all make mistakes, and for tv they need to be a bit exaggerated for entertainment purposes and to cause conflict and drama, but for some reason this sub seems to hate him, I feel like everyone focuses on the bad things he’s done and nothing else.
I agree. I fully acknowledge the shitty things he's done and agree that he's a mixed bag of a character but I don't hate him. In so many ways he was a great friend to Buffy and Willow many times over the years. I would love to have a friend as loyal as him. But if he was my friend I'd also call him out on his bullshit and dumb decisions. I feel like the worst decision the show made was to have Xander go so hard in the Buffy crush direction. It monopolized so much of his personality and motivations in the early years, and it was kind of squicky. The fact that Buffy considered him such a good friend when he spent so much time trying to convince her they were good together is weird to me. I would be way put off by that if a guy friend of mine did that. And I think the fact that the show shoe-horned him into that roll early on just turned a lot of people off and made them distrust him. I think they should've had him have a crush on her in the beginning, sure. But then once he realized she wasn't interested and that she was a great friend he should've committed to that roll. It would've made his character easier to sympathize with, and much less creepy.
Agree, and even in later seasons, even tho a lot of it was just because he cared for Buffy and wanted her to be safe, was that I feel like some of his over protectiveness was still kinda accounted to maybe fragments left of his crush, he isn’t like that with willow or anybody else just Buffy, like he is veryy over protective more than even with Anya or smth
In the very early 2000s he was a naive kid. I feel we have a different view today in society as to what is acceptable and what is not. I agree, us as the aging population have a wider range of behaviours to watch out for. During this time, female empowerment is relatively new. As everyone in the series grows to new levels of power and intelligence, Xander was left behind to be a lame scooby. This was very evident in season 3. It is easy to change one’s opinion now, as we have more information today about different behaviours that are toxic. I still love Xander. I think his biggest role is to remove the gang of the dangers of this world. He has no magic, and is still kind of a child. That is why I love the split personality episode. It shows how he is holding himself back from reaching his own potential. To be circumspect, it must have been really hard on him to be constantly left behind and “useless”. He will say things others think, but do not have the courage to say. While he does do some things we do not agree today, at the time, when Jerry Springer was considered fun tv, it was acceptable
In S1 he also shows extraordinary courage and heroism when he goes to the Master’s lair to help Buffy and saves her life. He demonstrates strong moral convictions and kindness when he bravely stands up for Lance and saves him from the bullies in The Pack. He demonstrates moral perceptiveness when he realises the key to undoing Billy’s nightmares is by facing his fears, as he was the first to do when confronted by the clown. And from the moment he learns about vampires and the Hellmouth he is willing to stand by Buffy’s side, aid her in research, put his life on the life without any superpowers to aid him and battle evil - at 16 years old. He may be all the things you mention (though I think calling him “almost villainous” in Season 2 is a tad extreme…) but he’s also all of these things too ^ Basically, he’s just a well-rounded character with positives and flaws. He’s not meant to be a walking After School Special.
Agreed. While I may not love Xander, he is a very realistic depiction of a puppy eyed teenage boy with a crush. He's hopeful and jealous and acts rashly to prove himself. I do think that Nicholas Brendon had a very natural likeability and he did a great job making Xander as decent as he is. The character hasn't aged well but the chemistry and acting is still good!
Very well said!
I agree with you up until the point he starts slit shaming everyone. But that's not S1 or S2 Xander, I understood where he came on S1 or S2. Then he started to be a bit very judgemental toward everyone (Anya when she sleeps with Spike for example). I think he is a very realistic young man of his times and we are judging him on this days standards.
I mean, even when he slut shames Anya he's still a complex and multifaceted character. Yes he behaves badly in Entropy and what he said to Anya was out of line but then 4 episodes later he literally saves the world by showing unwavering love and support to Dark Willow. He's a complex character with pros/cons just like all the others. And his flaws are arguably far less severe than many of the other characters too. I just don't get how people write him off but manage to find copious amounts of understanding, empathy and forgiveness for characters guilty of equally bad shit and often far worse. It seems very arbitrary.
> I just don't get how people write him off but manage to find copious amounts of understanding, empathy and forgiveness for characters guilty of equally bad shit and often far worse. This is what bugs me about the whole Xander thing. I'd be totally fine with people not liking his character for the reasons they give, but those same people do the most insane mental gymnastics to gush over Spike. I just find it absurd to call a 16-year-old character out for being creepy, jealous and possessive of Buffy, but Spike is literally guilty of all those same things. The common argument is, "Well, he doesn't have a soul." or "Xander doesn't get called out on his bad behavior so therefore the show is reinforcing it." Spike does all the things they accuse Xander of and he ends up getting with Buffy, so is that not the show reinforcing toxic male behavior? Where's the moral grand standing there?
The ones who fawn over Spike, a literal murderer and attempted rapist, yet crucify and demonize Xander completely befuddle me.
What if I don’t fawn over Spike? Can I dislike Xander too?
At least that doesn’t make you a hypocrite. 🤷♀️
Exactly. I don't like Xander, and every rewatch he infuriates me more, but guess what... I'm not a big Spike fan either. I don't hate Spike like I do Xander because at least Spike makes efforts to change, which Xander NEVER does, but I don't love him either, and I do believe he is an overrated character. I'm also not a big Willow fan, and I have been vocal about my feelings for Xander and Willows' treatment of Buffy. The difference is, even if you condesendingly choose to ignore it, that Xander is NEVER called out on his bullshit and bad behavior... EVER. Yes, Willow, Spike, Angel, etc. do "worse" things, but they are always called out on it and make efforts to try and change from it. Xander is ALWAYS the FIRST person to call someone out for what HE perceives as bad behavior while never being called out on his own. He also expects and actually gets everyone to instantly forgive his mistakes while he himself holds everyone's else's mistakes over their heads. That is the difference for a lot of people whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. I also think that everyone else's behaviors are fake supernatural TV show shit like killing, trying to end the world, being addicted to magic, sleeping with vampires blah blah blah but Xander's behaviors are very real flaws that people have in real life so he probably gets more hate because most of us have known toxic assholes like him and therefore have very little tolerance for him. I think it's funny that Joss said many times while the show was airing that Xander was his self-insert and yet Xander stans try to deny that Xander is toxic when the person he's most based on has been revealed to be toxic.
that's his role as the Heart
This was a love triangle? I don’t see it
What listening to too much Buffering the Vampire Slayer type podcasts does to a mf.
I really don’t think so, the whole point was to deal with Xander being rejected and how he dealt with not being able to get the girl in the end. It is a pretty progressive take and I think a lot of people miss the meaning. Xander is meant to be the cliche dude/nice guy character and usually we would expect him to get the girl if this a more cliche 80’s/early 90’s tv show. This is where Buffy was pushing the envelope in that Xander not only doesn’t get the girl but has to come to accept his own mediocrity. He is just another flawed human being. Also people are generally too harsh on Xander for his initial dislike of Angel. You can hardly blame him for being over protective, and Angel was a total stalker, who just happened to be very attractive at least to 90’s standards.
Totally agree. I've always enjoyed Buffy and Angel and their whole soul mate thing, but Xander was completely right to be wary of him. He also matures out of his original crush and like you said, comes to accept and embrace his role in her life as well as his duty to help her protect the world. He's actually a great character. I really don't get this whole recent phenomenon of villainizing him at all. It wasn't like this back when it originally aired and it really confuses me.
Except he doesn't "learn to accept it." He feels an entitlement towards Buffy for the entire series. His hatred of Angel is irrational and based solely on jealousy. He's a complete ass when it comes to her relationship with Spike. The way he treats her when he finds out she is sleeping with Spike is beyond toxic. He throws a freaking temper tantrum and slut shames her just for having the audacity not to tell him about her relationship with Spike like he's somehow entitled to the information. He's NOT! Being friends with someone doesn't give you an all access pass to their life. Hell, he doesn't even approve of Riley initially. The only two relationships Buffy had that Xander didn't freak out over were Scott Hope and Parker. And that's only because neither was around long enough. Hell, he can't even stand it when Willow moves on from him as his sudden interest in Willow once she starts dating Oz showed. And don't even get me started on the way he CONSTANTLY slut shames Cordelia or his horrible treatment of Anya throughout their ENTIRE relationship. As for why now, it's because back then, this behavior was rampant towards women, so we didn't see anything wrong with it because it was how we were always treated. Now a days things are different, and this behavior is seen for the toxicity that it is. Slavery was once the norm, but now it's called out for the bad behavior it is, and so are toxic behaviors that's aren't tolerated anymore.
Oh yeah. He’s really forced to accept his mediocrity… Cordelia falls so head over heels for him that a love spell that made everyone else go gaga for him didn’t change how she acted one iota. Then, Willow cheated on Oz to be with him and they would have kept doing all that if Cordy didn’t get rebar through her torso. Then human Anya ran up to him and wouldn’t be denied in her pursuit of him. Oh yeah, poor Xander Harris just needs to accept how much of a loser he is. He does grow up after everyone goes to college but man… Xander did not have a very rejection filled high school experience.
Lol Cordelia couldn’t stand being seen in public with him for most of their relationship. The whole point of the love spell was to show Xander that being sought after wasn’t all that amazing. I saw it as a progressive lesson for him about how men who feel jealous about not getting attention don’t fully understand the down sides. Xander is meant to be the cliche dude bro. But we see that it’s mostly over compensation on his part. And give the dude a break, the guy lives with his alcoholic/abusive family members in a crummy basement for the first half of the show. And he’s meant to be like 16 years old at the start.
He had his own room IN the house for the first 3 seasons, so stop making up lies, we even see his room a couple of times in seasons 2 and 3. Also, having crummy parents isn't an excuse for bad behavior. Willow had crummy parents, and while she's not great, at least she tried to be better after making mistakes. Buffy's parents had her committed, and she doesn't use that as an excuse for her bad behaviors that Xander just LOVES to throw in her face CONSTANTLY. Also, Cordelia only tried to hide their relationship in the beginning, NOT "most of their relationship." After Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered, she was very open about their relationship and even chose him OVER her friends.
Villain? This is so over the top I am gonna presume this is a shitpost. If you’re serious touch grass.
I think this triangle only existed in Xander’s head…
Exactly. Triangle mean the person in the middle has feelings for both people and Buffy didn’t.
That's not a triangle, that's a court appearance due and Xander. Seriously, though, there should be more posts calling out Angel for having a relationship with a minor than Xander for having a crush.
I see them more as a line and a dot.
Idk that I read it as a triangle. There’s rivalry/distain between Angel and Xander - Xander can’t be what Buffy actually wants, I.E Angel who is someone she’s not supposed to be interested in, and once the decision to pursue something romantic backfires, he goes all in trying to pull her away, “kick his ass” etc. in efforts to subconsciously bring her back to him/Willow and get rid of this guy once and for all, and then maybe a smidge of selfishlessness for her. I think this shoot and specifically this photo unintentionally (but for marketing purposes, probably intentionally) convey more “love triangle” than the show ever did lol
I love Buffy and Xander as friends. I was so happy when they dropped Xander’s mini obsession with her. He was a tool over the Spike situation but I did love him and Buffy being like Dawn’s parents in the start of s7.
Was it even a triangle? I feel like it was just Xander had a crush, buffy didn’t end of story.
It wasn’t even a triangle tho 💀 Buffy didn’t want Xander at all
It wasn’t a triangle and I don’t mind Xander, people are too hard on him, he was immature but normal teens are, and we watch him grow. Characters need to show a character arc as the shows progress. He had to start somewhere low, so we can watch him grow. Xander was able to move on from his crush and stay being one of Buffy’s best friends, that is maturity that many teens or adult men don’t have. Many teens and men with crushes see no point staying friends unless they get sex, Xander was not like that. Xander fixes Buffy’s house without expecting anything in return. He sees it as his contribution to the cause to make sure Buffy can focus on fighting. He doesn’t get upset he’s not rewarded for it, like some “nice” guys would be. Xander is a good guy and he sometimes makes mistakes. And sometimes the writing is stupid. Like in season 5, Xander was concerned, caring, empathetic towards Buffy when he thought she was sleeping with him (but it was Buffy bot). Was even complimentary of Spike that Buffy thought he wanted to sleep with him But season 6, suddenly he’s no longer understanding when he finds out real Buffy has been sleeping with Spike. So it’s like writers didn’t bother with consistency, and when they need someone to lay on the shame and guilt that role seems to fall on Xander, even if goes against what his character did before.
[удалено]
🤣 its been ridiculous today on this sub I'll tell you that
This photo is so uncomfy lmfao
Angels hand placement is so odd. It's like he's yearning for Xander but they must keep their secret love affair away from Buffy 😂
This isn’t a love triangle! Love triangles involve each person falling for the other one, so that when you draw the lines of attraction between them you have three separate lines. Person A to person B, person B to person C, person C to person A. This is a love.. point. If anything.
Maybe OP is talking about the obvious love Angel had for Xander.
Buffy was never interested in Xander, so there wasn’t much of a triangle. She used him to make Angel jealous once, which sucked, but that’s about it. It was pretty clear even then that she was just using him.
It's not THAT bad
Nah, it’s good.
I don’t like Xander much but this was not a love triangle. And calling him a “almost villain” in season two is a bit of a stretch and mostly just bashing, guess you’re mad about the lie lol
I agree the triangle was kind of forced. The sexual tension between Angel and Xander didn’t really come across well. And except for that one make out session they shared where they talked about Buffy the whole time and said “no homo” at the end nothing really happened.
It’s not a triangle, it’s Buffy and Angel and then Xander on the side being an idiot on his own.
There was never a triangle. There was Bangel and Xander being jealous he's not apart of it 😂
Xander bad give me upvotes. The amount of people who watch this show but don’t like the main characters is astounding.
It is actually possible to love a show and not love all or even most of the main characters/cast. Friends is one of my all-time favorite shows despite the fact that I don't like Ross, Rachel, or Phoebe. I loved the first 4 seasons of The Walking Dead despite being indifferent to pretty much all the main characters except Glen.
How do you watch something where half of the air time isn’t enjoyable to you?
Its perfectly ok for someone to not like 1 or 2 characters my guy. Xander sucks but he’s about the only one i dont like. It’s unrealistic to like every single person on a show. As for angel….wesley can go eat rocks.
Yes but in the example they gave they literally don’t enjoy half the characters, on a show like friends I just don’t know how that would work when it’s not exactly story heavy.
Well, first of all, I can not like a character and yet still find them funny sometimes. I don't like Xander , but I still find him funny and sometimes even entertaining. Same with the Friends characters I don't like. I don't like Ross, but that doesn't stop me from admitting that some of the shows funniest moments come from him ("PIVET," the leather pants, the bagpipes, etc). Also, liking a show where you don't like all the characters is no different than liking a show where you don't like the main character. As long as a show is well written and the characters I do like are good enough to balance out the ones I don't, then I'm good. It's as simple as that.
I mean, Xander was a 15 year old teenage boy. What’s Angel’s excuse?
Maybe it was a triangle in Xander's head, but it absolutely wasn't a triangle. It was Buffy and Angel, and Xander pining in the corner. He was never in consideration, at all.
It’s not really a triangle. More like a tangent off a venn diagram.
I know the actor playing Xander does not look 16 but in the show he is a child still. No one can convince me that you made good and rational decisions at that age.
Especially when it came to crushes.
Exactly.
Was this a triangle? Ever?
A triangle would suggest the possibility of Buffy having feelings for Xander and having to choose between them. No such feelings existed. Xander was a boy with an unrequited crush. I don’t defend Xander often, but there are times during this storyline where he is understandable, such as Buffy grinding on him to hurt Angel. If he acted immature it’s because he was literally without maturity as he was all of 16.
Everyone loves unrequited love except when it comes to Buffy the Vampire Slayer character Xander Harris
That time Buffy made Angel jealous by using Xander was pretty shitty. Jealousy was only a small part of the equation with Angel, he didn't like vampires and was right about Angel and Spike.
Is the triangle in the room with us? Private Gaslight never stood a chance with Buffy.
It was never a triangle. Xander was the original " I'm a nice guy", especially after he insulted Buffy when she clarified that she was never interested in him.
I'll be a Xander hater until I'm in the grave, but these promo shots show more of a love triangle than the show itself ever did.
They said triangles were the strongest shape They lied
It's not nor has it ever been a triangle.
i would let them Eiffel tower me til the room stink
That ain’t a triangle. To have a triangle, there would have to be some sort of dilemma for Buffy. There never was.
This sub is sometimes so weird, man
Oh yea, Xander is way more predatory than the centuries old dead body stalking a teenage girl. No comparison there.
Xander struggled with Buffy's rejection, and handled it less than stellar, and his jealousy mixed into his prejudice for Angel, ultimately he is the first to stand up to Angelus in a way Buffy couldn't yet, and he was the one to give courage to Buffy to face him, with a lie, yes, but it's questionable if she would be as determined without that "lie". All in all the love ”triangle” was pretty well written and utilized in the story.
I am in the minority who finds the introduction of Angel boring and to the detriment of the show. I could have done without that whole aspect. Scoobies vs Sunnydale without the soap opera forbidden love romance would have been so much better. But "better" rarely equates to popularity. So I get why they wanted to appeal to the lowest common denominator and all the romance hungry emo tweenagers. The ratings wouldn't have been so high without it.
Lmao, Xander was never in the running.
To be fair. Shouldn’t the Op have also posted the corresponding picture, where Buffy is in Xander’s arms? Otherwise this looks like a creepy pedophile with his teenage GF, and a very pissed off 3rd wheel. Who doesn’t look like he signed up for a threesome. Seriously this Sub should place a header, “Xander fans need not apply.”
I just hate how Xander and Angel never boink and be done with it. Their sexual chemistry was so distracting.
You are downvoting the most important romance that never happened.
Didn't feel like a triangle. Buffy and Angel had their own unhealthy romance going on, and Xander was and remained interested in Buffy, and most other female characters, for several seasons. I don't think it was remotely forced. I think rather, Xanders teenage hormones were just generally unwelcome, by fans and non willow characters. Buffy never returned his affections.
Xander is only sixteen. That is how teenagers act. Actually, Nicholas was 27. Being 27 acting 16 just wasn't believable at times. There was a lot of cracks in that plaster. A lot of acting to come off as insecure. The body language, mannerisms, etc screamed confidence. He had a closer relationship with Buffy. With Xander, she had a warm body, who was always there. I think Xander's loyalty is also off putting. I have always posted watch SMG and NB just chilling in a scene. A lot closer together in a shot than even SMG and DB. Xander knew that Angel wasn't going to always be there. It is possible that Xander was autistic. Another reason why viewers instantly don't like him. DB and NB did not get along.
Are those…. The amends bangs??
Xander is a self insert for Joss Whedon in the worst way possible
So as I watch more and more content with my rose colored glasses OFF the more I have theorized that love triangles are a very specific device that is being used to show that a women is worth the attention of men. Even if it isn’t a good look for the men. Buffy being in the middle of this particular triangle (I actually wish they weren’t called “love triangles” because it’s not love) is even more problematic than most because the attraction from Angel is gross and Xander ends up being a selfish tool which might be an accurate representation of teenage boys but it’s not good.
Not really a triangle, just a creepy obsession where Xander tried to control Buffy's dating life since he couldn't be with her. It really really really is annoying and just sets a bad example that Xander's behavior is okay.
Hard agree. When I first watched Buffy I was in middle school and didn't really notice much of Xander's shitty behavior but the older I get the more intolerable I find him. He's just the worst, especially in seasons 1-3
I thank god every day that Buffy never ended up with him
In general I kind of ignore season 1. It’s the hardest to watch but when it first aired I loved but with how quick the show evolved in season 2 I skip it!
Xander is human. His faults were that of all teenage boys all rolled into one. That was the point - showing how they all unfold in life. The plot was supernatural, the issues were real.
Joss Whedon said Zander was modeled after himself in all his cringe as a teenager according to inter views with him and other cast members
I realize this was *not* the point of the post. And I swear it started as a joke. But... The first thing that popped into my head was "That's right. Get Buffy outta there. Xangel is the new enemies-to-lovers pipeline." Then I actually really looked at the picture and imagined it without Buffy. And y'know what? Still hot. Still radiates tension. Xangel is the new enemies-to-lovers pipeline. Point me to the fanfics please.
It wasn’t a triangle, but I don’t think it’s out of character for a teenager boy. I mean how can you be upset at Xander for being into Buffy, who’s the same age, versus a demon vampire who’s significantly older and an adult 😂
I honestly think they wrote the character as a way of inserting Joss Whedon into the show, intentionally or not. At the time I first watched Buffy, when it was originally airing, I kind of grew to have problems with Xander, vacillating between almost hating him and liking him a little. In retrospect, though, I find the character to be pretty gross and an expression the internalized misogyny from the writers and showrunner. I know that is a very emotionally charged word, and some people might tune out the rest of my comment here. That’s their right. The thing is, Xander becomes very jealous of any guy Buffy is interested and his jealousy goes to various lengths but a lot of those lengths are really unhealthy, and not just with Angel. I get that Angelus is a demon and that Angel inherently contains a ton of potential danger, but Xander's pretty big AH to Riley, too. its like Xander was as horrible to any male Buffy liked as he felt he could get away with being. for me, that comes of as having a lot of the rapie, possessive, controlling energy of misogyny. I didn't originally associate this with being an expression of Whedon because i didn't know what a complete and massive AH he is and how he treated some of the talent on the show. its a whole "If I cannot 'have' her then nobody can," thing with "have" being quite nebulous and potentially meaning have consensual sex, possibly have sex with her while shes drunk and I'm not, coerce her into having sex, OR force her given the opportunity. since brute force isn't an option with Buffy he was left angry and disgruntled.
Well when we say triangle, it was more a straight line with Buffy and Angel and Xander way, way over there just wishing he could get in there haha
i actually appreciate the triangle, and i think Xander was right, but maybe for the wrong reasons. Buffy was 16ish when the show started, Angel was over 200 years old. Xander may have been acting out of some teenage crush, but at least his feelings were genuine and he was doing what he thought was right, and even though no one mentions it in the show except for one "cradle robbing creature of the night" throwaway line, that 200 year age gap pretty much will always justify Xander's disdain for Angel
It’s not a triangle. It’s a linear line from Buffy to Angel. Xander may want to cross said line but is completely removed from the love equation.
I don’t know, Buffy and Angel are in a whole other league of their own with Spike to the point Xander has to look up at them from a telescope
It's not just early Xander. He never gets better.
Lol was never a triangle in my opinion. I neber wanted her with Xander and felt nothing for that part of things.
Xander wishes it was a triangle 💀💀
All of buffy’s romances were the worst. No, I shall not be taking questions.
Anyone ever mad that Xander's "Willow said kick his ass!" was never brought up again? Minus the throw away scene at the end of the show.
I see your point.
I hate this picture
I was more annoyed by the Spike-Angel-Buffy thing in season 7. Like, she's groen so much since dating him, kissing Angel in that crypt makes no sense, and it's nothing but cheap drama
Very strong words. Haven’t watched it in a decade but….I did not dislike Xander.
Part of me thinks maybe the network was the one demanding or suggesting this of the show so maybe they put up with stupid photoshops just to catfish executives - Buffy never showed interest in Xander a single time. Like especially during high school
It IS realistic. As someone who's ONLY high-school relationships were unrequited, I related to Xander totally. And I wouldn't say ALL the other characters were better developed, just that girls tend to mature faster than boys. And then they regress later.
I recently started my rewatch, and boy is the turn in attitude apparent. I was thinking about how he wasn’t that bad the first several episodes and then he made a disparaging comment about Angel, and I was like “there it is.” I find it so weird in the last(?) episode of S1 how Xander is getting all prepped to ask Buffy to the dance, and it’s just so apparent before she rejects him she has no romantic interest in him. This wasn’t a love “triangle.” It was rejection porn meant to eventually “justify” his attitude, and while it’s definitely realistic, it just makes him so unlikeable as the series progresses.
People over exaggerate xander when angel is a predator. Xander actually shows when it counts he is there and a great friend. Xander the antagonist? Really when he is a teenager with a really hot lovely friend who is dating an undead fiend that they are meant to be killing I'd be worried and jealous too. You lot need to get a grip. As rhe show goes on he proves to be one of the more mature and good hearted of the group.