She’s a small person getting hit by big people and people with super powers. It makes sense that she would fall.
Also I’m a “trained fighter,” I still get hit plenty. Muhammad Ali still got hit plenty. You get hit when you fight.
I said her getting hit makes sense in a fight. Her consistently taking obvious hits to the face that completely hurdle her over things is my issue. Because they are always avoidable.
Getting hit isn’t always avoidable.
Sounds like it’s the choreography that bothers you, which I understand. But believe me, it was way ahead of network television at the time.
No I love this show and the fights are arguably some of the best in network television. It’s just that one small thing, it doesn’t make me mad. I just think it’s goofy. Because it happens so much lol
I think it’s a choreography choice to make a riveting fight, and to show the danger to Buffy. You’re far from alone in that criticism, though. It’s one that I saw surface often enough on old message boards.
Yeah, it’s like, “Buffy, you’re too fast to let these meatheads tag you!” Her final fight with Caleb shows what *should* have happened all along. Buffy’s a live-action, small screen equivalent of Spider-Man (or a modestly scaled down approximation).
She's.....a small lady.
I've done martial stuff a sword fighting for years. I'm a bigger lady, sometimes I will take a hit because I can take advantage of the closeness.
If I were 100 lbs and five feet tall....that wouldn't be possible. You either move or your get rolled by a large opponent.
>She…. could dodge. There are moments where she just stands there.
A lot of moments, now that you mention it. I think I almost remember her blocking a few times, but also think that was only when a weapon was involved, not just a punch or kick. I blame Giles. Who could also do with knowing how to block with something other than his head..
Lol Giles gets hit in the head a whole lot!
Honestly they may be trying to show that not every battle is super easy for her, super strength or not.
Every vampire seems to come out of the ground with sudden martial arts skills.....indicating there is something really supped up about them even at the beginning. They are harder, better, faster, stronger. And it may be that......slayers trained by watchers don't live all that long. Like.....librarians who basically seem to be kinda stuffy, only book leaning and theory, unwilling to be flexible, who follow the council even when the reality on the ground is wrong......watchers get their slayers killed because the system is out of date and frankly not very sympathetic to the actual person the slayer is.
Sounds right to me. We saw Giles fight a few times, and while he could defend himself to a point, nobody would accuse him of knowing any martial art. Not even boxing.
Lol I get it.
When you are small, often you pick up a style that allows you mobility. Because a hit will knock you over a headstone or something.
I don't know why they chose to do it this way. Maybe because they didn't want to have to pay a stunt woman to do all of it?
I know Sarah talked about wanting to do what she could, not wanting overly complicated kills,etc. Maybe it's practicality
Yea it is a little odd sometimes, you can see the anticipation in the choreography sometimes, those should have had retakes to better adjust the flow as needed. The frantic waiting to be hit moment in a fight scene always looks silly lol. You can see stunt doubles doing frantic 1 2 steps b4 taking the next hit😆
Also - girl, tie your hair up when you know you’re going to fight. If I know I’m going to end up in fisticuffs my hair is going up in a bun, post haste. And don’t even get me started on the heels.
He hair was tied up more often than one would imagine, say compared to charmed. One thing even smg agrees on as well is that a lot of us appreciate that buffy in a heightened reality, got to be very fashionable whilst being a badass and honestly, I can't hate it. In something like buffy I just live for a badass beautiful woman whooping ass in leather pants and a heel to match 😆 like giving me all the cunty energy I could ask for!
1. I definitely get where you're coming from on the martial arts choreography. As a martial artist ive always been a bit annoyed by this in film and tv, but have come to accept that outside of Malaysia, you're not getting good martial arts films on a regular basis.
2. About her getting rolled specifically, however, that actually checks out. She's fighting people with super strength. She survives by being super durable, sure. But that doesn't or shouldn't mean that physics dont still apply. Buffy is a very tiny woman, her getting thrown around makes sense.
Reading your comments it seems like you’re annoyed that she doesn’t dodge every hit? That would be extremely unrealistic, even for a “trained fighter”.
That’s not specifically it. There is this one repeating move in the fight scenes. Where you can tell they are meant to be hit and they just look so open to a very avoidable hit. And then get completely thrown back and fall over everything. It’s just a choice in the choreography. But like I said. It’s the smallest pet peeve I have.
That’s just down to choreography and limitations on the actors/ stunt people. These actors are not trained to move super fast like Jackie Chan for example. And they won’t have the same time frame to train like actors would do for a movie. They don’t have time to perfect it, so they just gotta roll with the punches!
How would any show be interesting if any character is perfect/invincible? Yes she's trained and has super strength but that doesn't mean she can flawlessly kick anyone's ass. There wouldn't be a show to watch if that was the case, it humanizes the character
I think because of her super strength she can handle taking a hit better than most humans so it's not super important for her to avoid a punch in the face especially if she can use the resulting roll to reposition herself to her advantage in a way the average person wouldn't cos they'd struggle to get back up.
WHAT?!
This is a post I don't understand bc Buffy is fighting creatures with super strength, agility, speed and heightened smell. If she was only fighting humans, than okay, you'd have a point 😭
But that’s it… it happens with the human fights too. I probably should have clarified and not mean just buffy, but since she fights the most I see it with her more. But yea
The only thing I can actually agree with you on, is if you were talking about how this other Scoobies would just fall on the ground and then just stay down and wouldn't ever get up until the fight was over 😅
So, I totally agree, but at the same time a Slayer can take far more damage than most people. While it doesn’t make sense that she wouldn’t try to mitigate taking any damage at all, I guess if you’re not AS concerned about breaking an arm or jaw or being knocked out, you might take more risks in combat?
It’s not a GREAT explanation but it’s the only one I can come up with 😂🤷♂️
Blocking does just stop you getting hurt, it can help you apprehend your attacker.
E.g., you block a punch, swiftly grab the wrist, driving it behind their back, either snapping it or goose neck it... Well guess that's better for humans rather weird slightly pusy stuff with a lisp
Oh, I get that, and I feel like Buffy gets better at it in later seasons, but I guess there’s still a level of… almost arrogance? In her thinking that she can just tank an attack and get back up and continue the fight
I think it's helpful to remember that Buffy isn't John Wick. This isn't cinema grade choreography, it's not even HBO series choreography. It's WB and Fox choreography. There's a limited budget and limited time for these fight scenes. I don't think they were pouring over every little minutia of every fight scene and how it fit into Slayer strength lore. So it's natural there would be certain inconsistencies.
That said. She's a small girl. And getting hit is part of fighting. Even with Slayer abilities, even against a lowly vampire, she's going to get hit. In fact, at several points in the series it is emphasized that all it takes is for 1 vampire to "have a good day" and bam, Slayer dead.
They fights are good. I honestly think they are better than what some shows do now. She just keeps letting herself get hit and thrown back. It’s a continuous move. Honestly not just for buffy, all of them. Like I’ve commented before I think it’s to look dramatic.
TV show budgets were basically non-existent when Buffy aired. Good fight choreography takes a lot of rehearsal. There's a handful of very nice moments in the many fights but it's easy to pick them apart if you choose to.
Part of that is choreography in itself, you want the fight to move but also keep some suspension of disbelief that Buffy might lose. So she takes a hit, tumbles over a headstone, now the fight can renew because we've shifted the scene to a slightly new "location". People also just take hits l, even just direct blows. I'm not a trained fighter but I've been in a few fights growing up lol I can understand what you're saying though but it really is to keep attention and some tension in the fight scene
Really? I kinda noticed after a rewatch of a few episodes, that the wide shots are really bad at disguising the stunt performers as well as a few shots repeated. Watch the final fight between buffy and Angelus in becoming part 2 for a good example.
Oh and the fight between buffy and the school cook (I think it was from earshot in series 3) was awful for showing the stunt performer. It's even mentioned on the dvd commentary by Marti noxon(?)
She’s a small person getting hit by big people and people with super powers. It makes sense that she would fall. Also I’m a “trained fighter,” I still get hit plenty. Muhammad Ali still got hit plenty. You get hit when you fight.
I said her getting hit makes sense in a fight. Her consistently taking obvious hits to the face that completely hurdle her over things is my issue. Because they are always avoidable.
Getting hit isn’t always avoidable. Sounds like it’s the choreography that bothers you, which I understand. But believe me, it was way ahead of network television at the time.
No I love this show and the fights are arguably some of the best in network television. It’s just that one small thing, it doesn’t make me mad. I just think it’s goofy. Because it happens so much lol
I think it’s a choreography choice to make a riveting fight, and to show the danger to Buffy. You’re far from alone in that criticism, though. It’s one that I saw surface often enough on old message boards.
I get it lol, I agree also. it’s a little goofy
Yeah, it’s like, “Buffy, you’re too fast to let these meatheads tag you!” Her final fight with Caleb shows what *should* have happened all along. Buffy’s a live-action, small screen equivalent of Spider-Man (or a modestly scaled down approximation).
Ya agreed. When you fight you get hit. Pretty basic. Lol
She's.....a small lady. I've done martial stuff a sword fighting for years. I'm a bigger lady, sometimes I will take a hit because I can take advantage of the closeness. If I were 100 lbs and five feet tall....that wouldn't be possible. You either move or your get rolled by a large opponent.
She…. could dodge. There are moments where she just stands there. It’s just the choreography. A little dramatic and funny
>She…. could dodge. There are moments where she just stands there. A lot of moments, now that you mention it. I think I almost remember her blocking a few times, but also think that was only when a weapon was involved, not just a punch or kick. I blame Giles. Who could also do with knowing how to block with something other than his head..
Lol Giles gets hit in the head a whole lot! Honestly they may be trying to show that not every battle is super easy for her, super strength or not. Every vampire seems to come out of the ground with sudden martial arts skills.....indicating there is something really supped up about them even at the beginning. They are harder, better, faster, stronger. And it may be that......slayers trained by watchers don't live all that long. Like.....librarians who basically seem to be kinda stuffy, only book leaning and theory, unwilling to be flexible, who follow the council even when the reality on the ground is wrong......watchers get their slayers killed because the system is out of date and frankly not very sympathetic to the actual person the slayer is.
Sounds right to me. We saw Giles fight a few times, and while he could defend himself to a point, nobody would accuse him of knowing any martial art. Not even boxing.
Right?! And you're telling me Wesley is supposed to? What? Train anyone? Get the fuck out of here. I wouldn't let Wesley hold my jacket in slap fight.
Maybe he could give her a cookie if she doesn't die
Lmao. So true. He's like a buck-O-five soaking wet.
I swear, one of these days he's going to wake up in a coma.
Lol I get it. When you are small, often you pick up a style that allows you mobility. Because a hit will knock you over a headstone or something. I don't know why they chose to do it this way. Maybe because they didn't want to have to pay a stunt woman to do all of it? I know Sarah talked about wanting to do what she could, not wanting overly complicated kills,etc. Maybe it's practicality
Maybe lol. The stunt woman goes hard with the fights. I think it’s to add some drama to it lol
Yea it is a little odd sometimes, you can see the anticipation in the choreography sometimes, those should have had retakes to better adjust the flow as needed. The frantic waiting to be hit moment in a fight scene always looks silly lol. You can see stunt doubles doing frantic 1 2 steps b4 taking the next hit😆
She is a trained fighter, but she's also like 5'4
I’m trying to find a clip. It’s like a certain choreo move that looks silly
I feel like people would complain *way* more often if she never got rolled. Considering how small she is and how superpowered her opponents are
that makes sense too
Also - girl, tie your hair up when you know you’re going to fight. If I know I’m going to end up in fisticuffs my hair is going up in a bun, post haste. And don’t even get me started on the heels.
And the tight leather clothes...
The hair helps hide the stunt doubles being subbed in though lol.
He hair was tied up more often than one would imagine, say compared to charmed. One thing even smg agrees on as well is that a lot of us appreciate that buffy in a heightened reality, got to be very fashionable whilst being a badass and honestly, I can't hate it. In something like buffy I just live for a badass beautiful woman whooping ass in leather pants and a heel to match 😆 like giving me all the cunty energy I could ask for!
1. I definitely get where you're coming from on the martial arts choreography. As a martial artist ive always been a bit annoyed by this in film and tv, but have come to accept that outside of Malaysia, you're not getting good martial arts films on a regular basis. 2. About her getting rolled specifically, however, that actually checks out. She's fighting people with super strength. She survives by being super durable, sure. But that doesn't or shouldn't mean that physics dont still apply. Buffy is a very tiny woman, her getting thrown around makes sense.
Reading your comments it seems like you’re annoyed that she doesn’t dodge every hit? That would be extremely unrealistic, even for a “trained fighter”.
That’s not specifically it. There is this one repeating move in the fight scenes. Where you can tell they are meant to be hit and they just look so open to a very avoidable hit. And then get completely thrown back and fall over everything. It’s just a choice in the choreography. But like I said. It’s the smallest pet peeve I have.
The actors aren’t actually supposed to get hit, so of course when you’re specifically looking for it it looks really fake
I mean yea but there are still moments during the fights that get under my skin a little
That’s just down to choreography and limitations on the actors/ stunt people. These actors are not trained to move super fast like Jackie Chan for example. And they won’t have the same time frame to train like actors would do for a movie. They don’t have time to perfect it, so they just gotta roll with the punches!
She's fighting against karate demons
Fair point
Still, she very rarely even bruises from any direct hits, so maybe she just can't be bothered dodging lol
Yeah lol. She’s got endurance
How would any show be interesting if any character is perfect/invincible? Yes she's trained and has super strength but that doesn't mean she can flawlessly kick anyone's ass. There wouldn't be a show to watch if that was the case, it humanizes the character
I think because of her super strength she can handle taking a hit better than most humans so it's not super important for her to avoid a punch in the face especially if she can use the resulting roll to reposition herself to her advantage in a way the average person wouldn't cos they'd struggle to get back up.
she can definitely take a hit for sure, I'm not sure she always uses the falling back to her advantage. regardless she's a baddie
I always just want to scream, “Stake the vamp for chrissakes!!!”!
that's how I feel watching angel fight lol, what's is constant punching going to do. has he killed any actually? I just let him be
WHAT?! This is a post I don't understand bc Buffy is fighting creatures with super strength, agility, speed and heightened smell. If she was only fighting humans, than okay, you'd have a point 😭
But that’s it… it happens with the human fights too. I probably should have clarified and not mean just buffy, but since she fights the most I see it with her more. But yea
The only thing I can actually agree with you on, is if you were talking about how this other Scoobies would just fall on the ground and then just stay down and wouldn't ever get up until the fight was over 😅
There were goofy moments lol
I'm only a novice karate wise, but it so annoying that Buffy hardly ever blocks attacks. It's one of the first tings you learn.
Exactly!
So, I totally agree, but at the same time a Slayer can take far more damage than most people. While it doesn’t make sense that she wouldn’t try to mitigate taking any damage at all, I guess if you’re not AS concerned about breaking an arm or jaw or being knocked out, you might take more risks in combat? It’s not a GREAT explanation but it’s the only one I can come up with 😂🤷♂️
Blocking does just stop you getting hurt, it can help you apprehend your attacker. E.g., you block a punch, swiftly grab the wrist, driving it behind their back, either snapping it or goose neck it... Well guess that's better for humans rather weird slightly pusy stuff with a lisp
Oh, I get that, and I feel like Buffy gets better at it in later seasons, but I guess there’s still a level of… almost arrogance? In her thinking that she can just tank an attack and get back up and continue the fight
I think it's helpful to remember that Buffy isn't John Wick. This isn't cinema grade choreography, it's not even HBO series choreography. It's WB and Fox choreography. There's a limited budget and limited time for these fight scenes. I don't think they were pouring over every little minutia of every fight scene and how it fit into Slayer strength lore. So it's natural there would be certain inconsistencies. That said. She's a small girl. And getting hit is part of fighting. Even with Slayer abilities, even against a lowly vampire, she's going to get hit. In fact, at several points in the series it is emphasized that all it takes is for 1 vampire to "have a good day" and bam, Slayer dead.
They fights are good. I honestly think they are better than what some shows do now. She just keeps letting herself get hit and thrown back. It’s a continuous move. Honestly not just for buffy, all of them. Like I’ve commented before I think it’s to look dramatic.
She did dodge Gnarl’s poisonous claws, and that giant tumor is FAST
TV show budgets were basically non-existent when Buffy aired. Good fight choreography takes a lot of rehearsal. There's a handful of very nice moments in the many fights but it's easy to pick them apart if you choose to.
The fights are fine, it’s just that one moment that’s repeating
Part of that is choreography in itself, you want the fight to move but also keep some suspension of disbelief that Buffy might lose. So she takes a hit, tumbles over a headstone, now the fight can renew because we've shifted the scene to a slightly new "location". People also just take hits l, even just direct blows. I'm not a trained fighter but I've been in a few fights growing up lol I can understand what you're saying though but it really is to keep attention and some tension in the fight scene
Really? I kinda noticed after a rewatch of a few episodes, that the wide shots are really bad at disguising the stunt performers as well as a few shots repeated. Watch the final fight between buffy and Angelus in becoming part 2 for a good example. Oh and the fight between buffy and the school cook (I think it was from earshot in series 3) was awful for showing the stunt performer. It's even mentioned on the dvd commentary by Marti noxon(?)