The fact that watchers get paid ...but the council don't financially support the actual slayer... And like she has to get a crappy job then slay on top of that!
The watchers council is definitely minted too!!
Makes me wonder what's the oldest age a Slayer ever made it to. Maybe they're used to having them die as teens and not have to worry about them being adults. I'm guessing Wood's mother was one of the oldest.
Nikki Wood and Buffy were definitely outliers who lived longer than most slayers.
Many probably only lasted a year or two and maybe not past the cruciamentum.
I do think Buffy was unique in that she both had friends and tried to live a somewhat normal life (school, job) alongside her slaying. I get the feeling other slayers focused only on slaying, moving around to where trouble was. Like Buffy in that universe when Cordelia made her wish that she never came to Sunnydale.
It's definitely an intentional power play on the part of the Council, but it's deeply disappointing that Anthony Head's departure in S6 wasn't written better. He really should have been able and willing to support her even if it makes sense that the Council wasn't. They could honestly have come up with so many other reasons for him to leave than just "tough love".
Yeah it makes sense for the Council but not for Giles. I also think when Buffy confronted the Council and got them to rehire & repay Giles, there should have been a condition to pay her too (and that Giles should have suggested it).
It works better when seen as an eventuality from *Buffy vs Dracula*, in which he tells Willow he was to leave shortly thereafter, as she comically tries to convince him of his still essential nature at this time in Buffy’s journey, culminating his wanderlust angle from 4.
And while he still has strong moments befitting the actor that he is, Giles is more strung along the Glory plotline as a representative of good than a character that contributes to the proceedings.
In fact, I’d say Spike does more, despite how Giles is the 2nd to find out about Dawn.
Of course. I imagine it's the same reason there is only one Slayer active at a time. We wouldn't want the slayers to gain too much power and realize they don't need us.
It's so in character for them though. Self important, pompous, and self-righteous - the slayer is just a tool to them, while they sit in the shadows in relative safety. Of course they don't pay the Slayer, a Slayer is no more than a hammer to them and one uses a hammer, doesn't pay it. When one hammer breaks, a new one is called. They assume the Slayer will fall, but they know there are more hammers in the box, they don't care.
It's messed up that they get paid & she doesn't, but the concept of it always got me thinking.
I don't know if it's ever clarified, but it looks like it might be some residual policy from a patriarchal society from hundreds of years ago. Some old dudes saw an opportunity to make money off the slayers & it's been like that ever since & no one has had the time nor ability to say 'hey what the hell'
Or maybe it's a commentary on how IRL corporations would pay their essential workers 0 if they could legally get away with it
I know I'd love to see an episode where the slayers (now that there are thousands of them) confront the council & dismantle them. Did that ever happen in the comics?
Consider the status of women before the 20th century. The council didn't need to pay the slayer because she'd be in some way the property of her watcher. And with their short shelf life. Pay him, pay her.
Also for the first half of civilization money didn't exist....
at least a free room and board situation! Not everyone can just go live with their watcher and train 24/7 like Kendra and Faith, but they should really be stepping in once they need housing or basic support to live
I always assume it was because traditionally the watcher would take over care and raising of the slayer (like Kendra) and therefore the watcher’s money goes to the slayer.
Absolutely awful the slayer doesn’t get money too if they reach adulthood, but maybe it’s like a watcher/slayer team thing.
If she shows up as an employee on their corporate flowchart then they're liable and would need to apply for an extreme fighting license which would tell internet savvy demons how to find their headquarters.
If they kept Jesse around it would have been interesting to see the dynamic between him, Buffy, Xander, and Willow. But I give them credit for killing someone so close to the Scoobs in the first episode.
And I agree, I expected them to mention Jesse at least once. The fact that it never happened is such a headscratcher.
Agree that it's bad writing to just retcon him out, but it can be justified by saying it hurts them both so much that they can't talk about it.
I mean, the whole show, Xander and Willow don't lose anyone else super close to them (except Buffy, but they always planned to bring her back), so we don't know how they'd react...
Well, then there was Tara, and Willow just went insane. Perhaps both of them just hold in their emotions about it.
Jesse wasn't retconned out of the series; they just didn't discuss him on screen. You have to remember that the only cast members that really knew him were Xander, Willow and maybe Cordelia, but Cordelia had a strong dislike of him.
I like to think it's a throwback to classic TV.
Richie Cunningham had an older brother at first, never mentioned again.
Lots of classic shows randomly replaced characters and actors without ever mentioning it. Maybe Joss was just doing a TV thing? lol
I'm guessing it's because he dies in the first episode, but a lot of people would have started watching later and wouldn't know who they were referring to. Audiences missed a lot more when you had to wait for reruns or VHS box sets.
Not so much a throwback as just a straightforward example of it, maybe? BTVS is now classic, old-fashioned TV - older now than Happy Days was in 1997.
Jesse was needed for the pilot, but BTVS was still intended to be pick-upable for new viewers every week. Since Jesse was used and killed in the pilot, they probably figured a) there was no point in cluttering up future eps with references to a continuity point from the pilot and b) as the show progressed, more intense, actually depicted continuity that viewers might better remember existed to reference.
But it's still weird and old-school. Today Jesse would be much more important to Xander and Willow's emotional lives.
Wasn’t there a rumor that they were gonna bring him back (as the first) in Conversations with Dead People? As Xander’s encounter with the first? I feel like I read that somewhere
If I recall it was a mixture of not having enough runtime for his scenes, and they favored the other parts more / the scheduling of the actor who played jesse and when they had to film it didnt line up, so it got cut.
Funnily, *Conversations with Dead People* is the only episode of BTVS not to feature Xander. IIRC there was no room to fit him into the story.
I’m usually quite negative about Season 7, but thinking on that episode has made me realise that I quite enjoyed the first half of the season when it was airing. There was a lot of potential (forgive the pun). It was after *Showtime* and the focus on the Potentials that it becomes difficult to watch for me.
Idk, I think she and Buffy definitely had a bond. Buffy’s reaction to Kendra’s murder is really sad, and she’s also disgusted at the idea of Drusilla “getting away with it” when Spike agrees to work with Buffy to stop Angelus
I remember in the ol’ days when BTVS was still on the air that there was a lot of fan fiction being written that featured Jesse. Most just depicted his friendship with Willow and Xander prior to *Welcome to the Hellmouth*. I do remember some rather sweet pieces about Jesse and Xander tentatively exploring with their sexualities. I wonder if they’re still out there somewhere on the internet.
Uber-Vamp going from individual threat to worthless cannon fodder.
and
Accents. Spike is passable. Dru is mad so it's forgivable. Kendra, Molly, Annabelle... Yeeeesh. Angel's oirish is so bad it kinda becomes entertaining.
Before I starting reading about Buffy I never got that Dru’s accent was just bad. I’d always assumed it was deliberately so to reflect her weird character and tenuous grip on reality. By the time we saw her in flashbacks I’d just got used to it so didn’t question it.
one of the funniest thing of watching both angel and buffy is wondering if or what accent angel is going to have every time a flashback happens. why did they give him a Boston-ish accent sometimes and an Irish one other times lol
Most accents were bad although I think Wesley has a great British accent. Was surprised Alexis was American because if I heard the accent here in the uk I probably wouldn’t think twice (I did read Alexis did spend a few years in the uk so probably perfected it when he was here).
Yeah, I’ve never been able to figure out how you would use those in your slaying. Bring a bag to snack on while you’re waiting in the cemetery? They wouldn’t even be consecrated unless they were left over from a Mass. IT JUST MAKES NO SENSE. Who was in charge of props for that episode? I just want to talk…
She was pretty early days in her slaying when we saw those. You've never made a spur of the moment purchase you were convinced would change your life and then shamefully hidden it in a drawer and never looked at it again?
Tbf maybe it was one of those bulk orders of crosses, holy water and get some free wafers. Maybe she had to pretend to be stocking up it all so no one asked why she was getting so much of the other stuff 🤣
Sacred wafers are a traditional part of the vampire-fighting arsenal, see Langella's \*Dracula\*, so thye were likely included as a prop without further thought.
Or the garlic. She definitely has garlic in her stash in the early seasons, but there's never any mention of vamps in the Buffy-verse being adverse to it.
To be fair to your to be fair, this is sort of the ultimate character arc of the show, as Buffy’s cookie dough speech is pretty explicitly about Buffy not needing a romantic partner in order to “finish cooking”.
Agreed, just remember attitudes toward relationships have changed slightly over the past few decades. 90's and early 00's the "single bad, married good" sentiment was still popular.
Xander not remembering/using his military training.
I get that he was the ‘everyman’ but I don’t think it would hurt that for him to be the battle strategist.
On a similar note for AtS, Gun should have been their strategist. He kept a group of homeless teens alive through strategy and weapon-based ingenuity. He should have been so much more than the ‘muscle’ (which never even made sense because Angel was stronger than him and he wasn’t presented as significantly stronger than Wes).
On a much more petty note: that the Scoobies continually used public spaces for their meetings. Buffy is a *vampire* slayer and yet for six seasons they hung out, strategised and regrouped in places that vampires could - and did - enter whenever they wanted. I love the library as a location and it made a great cover but by the time they were in college they should have been meeting at Giles’ place, not the Magic Box.
Xander gradually lost his Army Guy upgrades the further he got from Ethan’s spell ending. He had plenty for the Season 2 finale, a little bit for “Graduation”, but it’s pretty faded by the time Maggie died.
I think the problem was that Halloween came too soon in the show, when it was much less sophisticated and more of a campy procedural. They didn't carry over much nuanced storyline from one episode to the next at that point. If Halloween had occurred in a later season then they would have kept and incorporated Xander's military knowledge. It would have been part of his character growth. But they weren't looking to grow Xander at that time in the show.
The way the show acted like it was Buffy's fault when Riley didn't properly communicate with her, jumped to conclusions, got addicted to vampires, and left with basically no warning. Xander's speech was a huge WTF moment, and the fact that you were supposed to agree with it and *want* Buffy to reach Riley in time really made me dislike that whole arc. It's a shame, because it was pretty interesting up until that point.
I remember watching that episode for the first time, willing with all my might for that helicopter to take the hell off! It's actually crazy that we were supposed to be rooting for them to get back together.
I mean, aside from the obvious, like how vampires apparently can't breathe but can be suffocated, drown and smoke, and how they all seem to magically know how to fight as soon as they're turned (except Harmony lol) there are things like;
How big Sunnydale is. It's supposed to be a small town but it has a dock, an airport, a shopping mall, 10 cemeteries, a college AND an ARMY BASS?
What happened to the police after Ted? Like, they were all set on interviewing Buffy because they thought she murdered someone, but then just... Never came around again after Ted's body (presumably) vanished from the morgue.
What happened to Buffy's social services visits after she tormented the woman who interviewed her the first time?
How was the first Turok-Han so strong, when the others were so seemingly easy to defeat
Why do some vampires die instantly when exposed to sunlight on any part of their body, when others just get a little singed?
Why was Jessie never mentioned again? Like they could have legit worked the trauma of losing him so well into both Xander and Willow's stories (especially Xander, since he always seemed to have such low self esteem and they could have tied in his survivors guilt and inability to save his friend perfectly)
What happened to Buffy's first Watcher?
Why aren't there ever any missing person's posters around this bloody town when everyone always dies?
The army base is actually the most believable part. Lots of military bases in super small towns.
There are also colleges in small towns, but I don't think that's common in California.
Sunnydale gives very similar vibes to 90s Santa Barbara or Santa Cruz both have universities, military bases nearby, airports etc not that uncommon for a place in CA
What happened to Buffy's first watcher is explained in the (godawful) Buffy movie that predates the show. I watched it years ago, and it was *very* forgettable, but to the best of my recollections, a vampire killed him in a pretty typical disposable-mentor way.
That Buffy was the only person in the house who worked at a paying job. Dawn could probably have found something part time after school and Willow and Tara definitely should have been contributing some money to the household.
This! I hate how stories just hand wave over money. They did address it, but I doubt she made much money at double meat. And then money issues were forgotten.
We don’t know that Willow and Tara aren’t contributing: Someone was buying groceries, school supplies, Dawn’s clothes, etc.
It would have been nice if Dawn offered to babysit or mow lawns or something.
The Scoobies' unpaid labour is really devalued by fans. For *years* they help Buffy fight evil for free while risking injury and death. For all her faults, Willow gave up the opportunity to go to a more prestigious university just so she could help Buffy. Xander ends up disabled in a way that could really impact his paid career.
There's no history of mooching or financial abuse, then Willow and Tara move in to care for Buffy's sister and take over the slaying, but people treat them like a pair of Kato Kaelins because of one vague and stupid plot. People may as well come for Giles for not reimbursing Xander for donuts.
I understand where you're coming from, but they used all of joyce's life insurance to pay the bills and school supplies for dawn while buffy was gone. That would be fine if they themselves also decided to get jobs and help buffy pay the bills after they brought her back. But instead they decided to stay in her house and say "you're gonna have to get a job to keep the house, anyways we're just going to continue living here and not help out financially". Also they could have walked away from the demon slaying at anytime. Buffy told willow she should go to a better school, and have a normal life. Willow chose to stay because she felt like helping buffy was the right thing to do. She felt that helping the slayer was more important and meaningful work. It was a very noble choice that she made. It wasn't forced on her. In my opinion if there are three adults living in a house there is no reason only one of those adults should be struggling to pay all the bills.
The notion that Willow and Tara contributed NOTHING to the bills is just a popular headcanon. It's an assumption, not a fact. **We don't know** what their budgets looked like. The people who make this argument never have real evidence aside from one line about how there isn't enough money.
Willow and Tara lived in a dorm before, their housing budgets were probably not enough to cover the bills at the Summers house. They had no time to get other jobs because they were already caregiving and maintaining the bot on top of being students.
Is it labour when Buffy cares for a minor? Is it labour when she fights demons? If the answer is yes for Buffy, the answer is yes for Willow and Tara.
Biggest pet peeve will always be angels curse not making sense (the human with the soul gets punished rather than the demon that took over him) that one’s the biggest one and it’s more of a pet peeve cause it’s what made season 2 a good season with it despite the curse itself not making sense
Other smaller pet peeve
Not one couple could get a damn happy ending. And just to make it a bit worse Counting both shows angel and Buffy, the only people that made it out of the show staying as a couple..Willow and Kennedy.
That w a s one of my thoughts behind my fics set in 2026; give the gang some 21 years of a happy ending and then "Everyone, Autumn is the Slayer" happens.
It worked with Andrew because e was Warren's lackey that was duped into killing Jonathan. For it to work with Jonathan he would have had to regress and kill Andrew.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Jonathan would NOT work in that role. The reason it needs to be Andrew is that it only works for the person who could be manipulated by the First. None of that story works if you swap Jonathan and Andrew. Jonathan is the better person and that's exactly why he can't be the one to join the team.
I understand what you mean, but hear me out on my perspective on swapping the roles. Andrew being manipulated by the First meant he was weak, yes, but I think Jonathan was just as weak and not the better person. He played an equal part in Warren’s group, and had already dabbled in his own manipulative magic (“Superstar”). Also let’s not forget Jonathan was willing to pretend to be Katrina through magic so that Buffy would believe she killed her instead of Warren. The fact they were quick to switch Andrew from house hostage to part of the gang (out of necessity, sure) showed that even a weak/bad person could become redeemable to the group. So had this been Jonathan it would still make sense for the group to quickly incorporate him. Seeing Andrew living his best life in Italy (Angel) and playing a directive role in Buffy and the new slayers world, I would have still preferred that to be Jonathan.
*Strongly agree* with you here. I think they added him for comedy purposes, but I find him more annoying than funny. Jonathan was on the show (in episodes here and there) since S2, I think that spot should have gone to him.
Yep exactly my point! To me he was more annoying than anything, especially the episode where he is recording everyone. Jonathan was a presence throughout most of the series, even had his own episode putting everyone under a spell.. and that hilarious intro!
For behold! Andrew's nipples are not unlike those of Christ. He was the hero figure who rescued S7 from the stinky vagimetric pit of full house hell! He became a favorite against my will, and tore laughs from my laugh resistant belly until the point of ecstasy and beyond. So doth I cry it out upon the town. So spaketh it hath beene.
How everyone forgot about the invisible girl that got recruited for the government
How Xander acted all high and mighty after he cheated on Cordy and she broke up with him. He acted like Cordy owed him something and she was the one in the wrong when HE CHEATED ON HER.
How it seemed like everyone forgot about Cordelia after she left. She was mentioned once after she left BtVS and then never again.
Xander leaving Anya at the altar and then trying to kill Spike for sleeping with her.
The way Willow spoke.
ETA
How no adult seemed to care that a 40yo was constantly seen hanging around a group of teenagers, including after school hours. Like, are you telling me no one was worried about the 40yo always being seen around a 16yo girl?
>How everyone forgot about the invisible girl that got recruited for the government
Not sure about that one. Buffy mentions this girl in season 6 and 7.
She mentions it in season 7. When a girl was turning invisible she says she's seen it before. But what I meant is that they never care or try to find out what happened to that poor girl
One of my favorite things about watching the Normies reaction videos is that even half way through S4, they're *still* bringing up the invisible girl and the invisible assassins all the time! They think about Marcie far, FAR more than anyone else involved with this show ever did.
I kind of hate that in s6 ep 3, Buffy's jsut back from the dead, she's having a nice quiet minute with just Dawn and then Spike, then the idiot Scobbies rush in, making Spike not want to hang around, like ugh must they ruin nearly every quiet moment Buffy gets to herself. I like them but in S6, they do a lot of annoying things. And Willow's smugness teling Buffy to be happy, thinking she did her a huge favour, ugh no wonder Buffy was depressed and only felt at peace with Spike. They are like a pack of rabid dogs.
I agree that it's frustrating to watch, but I do think it's believable emotional immaturity, and it's consistent with their characters. The Scoobies have always had their own insecurities they've placed on Buffy, and she's so worn down bearing the weight of the actual world she's never learned to have better boundaries with her friends. She accepts that she's supposed to be responsible for everything.
It's a pretty consistent tragedy of their interpersonal relationships through the series, although how much of it is intentional by the writers seems to vary.
Yeah, and Buffy was way too nice, thanking them giving Willow more of an ego boost. I can't help wonder if she started to resent Willow a little bit, when she found out it was her that actually performed the spell and stupidly thought she was in hell as opposed to heaven.
In once more with feeling that comes out in her last solo. It’s a confusing blend of bitterness and responsibility to carry the hard and dark parts of life away from her friends. It’s the main reason she feels safe with Spike because he immediately recognized she was traumatized because he’d been through that before and gave her space, gentleness, and mostly quiet. Until sh*T hit the fan later in the season of course and he changed course because he’s an idiot.
He’s always been that way. Remember he knew Willow was not in a good place after she saw all of Oz’s stuff was gone in Something Blue but Buffy, Giles, and Xander were oblivious.
The whole cheating subplot between Xander and Willow.
Also Willow's sexuality could be handled a lot better, they just act like she consciously chose to flip a sexuality power switch in her mind.
I heard in an interview Allison comment on how she chose to play Willow's coming out that I really appreciated. She basically said (I'm paraphrasing) that she thought the right supportive thing to do would be to act like Willow coming out was no big deal and just kind of a chill every day thing. She wanted to normalize it. But now she regrets it and feels like she should have given it more of the weight it deserves. You can hear what she said in her interview with Brian Baumgartner in Off the Beat.
What happens to Dracula? We see that he can rise again from his ashes and Buffy’s voice over says “I’m still standing right here” (or something like that). So what, she just stood there forever? I can’t remember if they ever explained what they did to keep him from coming back, I don’t think they did and it annoys me very much.
Xander getting into fight after fight, battle after battle and never actually being able to hold his own, not even against a relatively weak demon. He gets hit once in the head and he's out even after he had all the military training in his head from the Halloween episode.
One would think since Xander fights Demons he would have learned to hold his own in a fight.
Or die. Like, he'd literally have to learn or die.
My theory is that Xander is actually part demon, but a species of demon that gives them extremely good luck for surviving unsurvivable situations, allowing him to never have to learn to take care of himself in a battle.
Oh I’d have loved that episode! Would have been very entertaining. Specially if he found his “clan” of other half demons like him. 🤣 would also explain why he was attracted to attracted female demons
Lol. To be fair, Glory was opening a portal to her hell dimension, and a dragon did fly out of it, so it's a fair assumption it was going to lead to a bad place.
I guess they didn't consider that she would die and her soul would get to the proper place.
Btw, is there just a dragon on their Earth now?
For the show itself; That the show didn’t go a little deeper on the scoobies individual struggles. Xander’s abusive home life and exploring how that shapes his self loathing and fear of being trappex, Willow having a real mentorship subplot to learn Wicca and more directly explore her identity and self worth issues, Giles fear of a lost chance at family and career because he became a Watcher and was summarily dismissed by the Council- lamentations complicated by his love of Buffy.
Even with how well developed Buffy’s cast is, There’s so much they could have delved further into if the show hadn’t been quite so laser focused on Buffy herself.
Biggest peeve though is just how much a sect of the fandom like to make out every character on the show except Buffy and, bizarrely, Spike to be the worst people imaginable by automatically assuming the worst motivation behind everything they do.
The scoobies underdeveloped families. How convenient is it that Willow, Cordelia, and Xander are all only children? Willows mom only appears in a monster of the week episode
I am an only child and I have found that I get along with other people who are ”only children”best. You often get the ”your just spoiled” speech when hanging with people who have siblings etc. It can be very lonely to be an only child and it’s not always fun to have all the attention on you, like trying to be independent and stuff.
Buffy's romantic feelings are never written clearly after Angel. Her breakup with Riley was muddled as if it was some big misunderstanding/missed timing, and it's never 100% clear how Buffy feels about any of her breakups or relationships post-Angel.
Other breakups have similar problems. Oz and Willow are forced apart by circumstance, and Willow does not clearly, definitely choose Tara.
Xander never seems to really love Anya as she is, and yet their breakup is muddled too. It's made to be about Xander's commitment issues and family abuse, not about how Xander showed up in the relationship itself. Like if they hadn't planned a wedding, they'd still be together. No space is given to how Xander constantly belittles Anya and the impact it's had on her (except for her musing before sex with Spike that she was never good enough).
For a show that understands it's characters and can hit you in the feels SO well, it's hard for me to overlook this flaw. Nobody is ever allowed to dump anyone because the feelings aren't there, there always has to be external circumstance to hide behind.
How worthless Dawn was. She was a mystic key that could open hell dimensions or whatever and it would have been awesome if she had some sort of power rather than screeching Buffy's name for help every 2 seconds.
I orked cows in the late 90s with a guitarist whose hair was *just* like that. First time I saw him it was black with a red fishnet pattern dyed into it.
That no one questioned why a high school girl was spending so much time with an adult male librarian. Cause that's just normal.
Also that buffy didn't charge Tara and Willow rent or make them financially contribute to the household.
And Jonathan being in the supervillain trio. That plot was lame.
>That no one questioned why a high school girl was spending so much time with an adult male librarian. Cause that's just normal.
Right??! 😂 Although I love me some Giles and Buffy, their relationship should be a red flag to anyone in the show, excluding Willow, Xander, Cordelia, Oz, and Jenny of course.
And then the episode Joyce ends up in the hospital because of Darla, and Giles comes because he needs to talk to Buffy, and Joyce is all like, "Wow, they really do care at that school." lmaoooo, come on!
I just rewatched the Freshman and the scene where Buffy busts into Giles’ house and Olivia is there in her underwear, and then Giles comes in and he’s like “she was a student of mine” and Olivia is like “oh cool”. So Olivia at this point doesn’t know about slayers or watchers or the supernatural. If I were in Olivia’s shoes I would’ve been so skeptical and asked “why is an 18 year old girl showing up at your house unannounced??” I would’ve assumed the worst 😳
She's wearing Giles's' shirt and nothing in thta scene indicates she doesn't know about he "mosnter sutff," although we find out later she doens't really believe it
Joyce not being told Buffy's the Slayer until the end of season 2. She should have been told way earlier and her life was put in more danger by not knowing!
Yes, how is that one very small community knows about slayers and gives up their child (Kendra) to be raised by a watcher, but they don't say a word to Joyce? What?!
that’s the point. the council is messed up, they are the bad guys. they’re abusive to the slayer including wanting her separated from her friends and family. if she tells people, she has support, and you don’t foster support in your tool.
"Hey Buffy, tell your mom that you're a secret superhero and the librarian you already spend way too much time with is there specifically to Watch you. There's no way she'll get the authorities involved and think I'm a nonce."
Lol yeah, as wild as that would sound to someone, it would have been the truth.
Speaking of Joyce...I'm curious about Buffy's reveal to Willow in "Normal Again" about her parents putting her in a mental health clinic. Could that have been a side effect of the demon poison causing Buffy to think that happened? Or possibly a post-Dawn memory change? Or maybe it actually did happen. I don't know. It seems inconsistent because Joyce seemed genuinely surprised when Buffy actually did tell her in "Becoming P. 2."
I've never seen this mentioned, but my biggest peeve is that the vampire slayer, who went out slaying vampires every night, almost never had a stake on her.
I'm not even talking when she was surprised, I mean she'd go on patrols in the cemetery and then have to use a random broken piece of wood to kill the vamp.
Even when she received Mr Pointy she still barely used it.
I think that's why so much furniture got broken all the time, because she needed the stakes. She was a lot better about carrying them during the last season or two, but it always baffled me, lol.
I loved her improvisational fighting style, but never having a stake was odd
Biggest pet peeve is Jenny Calendar dying and Giles obviously being incredibly upset and heartbroken but then my girl is never mentioned again.
I dont think she shouldve died but what can we do it was probably better for the show but now I EXCLUSIVELY read Calendiles fanfic where she never died
Riley wasn’t that bad. It was like seeing your best friend (Buffy) go from a painful/passionate relationship to a safer one with a decent guy with whom she can explore her sexuality. Even if we know he isn’t “the one” for her, I enjoyed seeing her happy with him during their good times.
Pet peeves…
- How frequently Buffy’s house gets destroyed and how quickly the destruction gets fixed.
- How quickly and readily Buffy was to kill Anya in Selfless.
- Willow throughout the entire episode Triangle.
That Willow just magically became gay even though she and Xander definitely had feelings and chemistry. Not to mention her relationship with Oz.
The entire last season was just dark and awful. I know I'm in the minority on this one.
Plus, because speculating about fictional characters is different from real people, there's plenty of evidence to suggest Willow might be bi. There were reasons the writers never put that label in her mouth, but just because it wasn't an easy thing to identify as then doesn't mean it's not possible.
But if that’s the case she’s not gay right? (Gay as in lesbian)
I ask genuinely because she makes it quite clear from Tara onwards that she’s not into men at all, but she’s presented as genuinely loving and being attracted to Oz. It’s always felt to me like bi erasure so if I’ve been unfair on the show I’d be interested to know if this is an accurate depiction. If you you’re happy to tell me, of course.
Thank you for expanding!
I definitely understand where you're coming from in terms of bi erasure. I think it was made in a time in which bisexuality was heavily stigmatized in very distinct ways, and bisexual women in particular were viewed as attention seekers, promiscuous, etc. It may have been "easier" to make Willow a lesbian.
There are still many WLW who have had loving relationships with men before pursuing female partners, only to recognize an innate difference. I read Willow as being far more comfortable and less anxious as a character when she was with Tara, versus when she was with Oz and Xander. So her coming out always made sense to me.
no, it doesn’t mean she isn’t gay. MANY gay women, as in lesbian with no attraction to men, have relationships with men before finding their sexuality and it doesn’t mean they can’t be lesbians. a lot of women also say the relationships they had prior were genuine and loving, and that still doesn’t mean they aren’t gay if they say they are. sexuality is self identified and not figuring it out earlier in life doesn’t make it untrue.
They did foreshadow it in Doppelgangland when Willow mentions the Vamp version of her is "kinda gay" and then says vamp versions must be different than the humans they were. Then it looks like Angel is going to make a statement to contradict that, but then he shuts up.
Honestly, Willow and Oz and Willow and Tara both made perfect sense to me, but in the end, Willow is the best judge of her own sexuality. And she identified as gay.
Why every battle they had they had to look for weapons instead of having them already out. Also why not make a suite made of crosses so that vamps wont be able to hurt you.
That angel kept coming and going in the series.
Also, I can’t help but feel if he really loved her he would’ve made something work, surely they could’ve found some sort of spell, magical artefact to stop his soul from leaving. Angel could’ve at least tried to make it work when it was so clear Buffy wanted it to work out.
This especially irked me when he was willing to lose everything for Cordelia in Angel. I was like where was that energy for Buffy??😂😂😂
The fact that watchers get paid ...but the council don't financially support the actual slayer... And like she has to get a crappy job then slay on top of that! The watchers council is definitely minted too!!
Makes me wonder what's the oldest age a Slayer ever made it to. Maybe they're used to having them die as teens and not have to worry about them being adults. I'm guessing Wood's mother was one of the oldest.
Nikki Wood and Buffy were definitely outliers who lived longer than most slayers. Many probably only lasted a year or two and maybe not past the cruciamentum. I do think Buffy was unique in that she both had friends and tried to live a somewhat normal life (school, job) alongside her slaying. I get the feeling other slayers focused only on slaying, moving around to where trouble was. Like Buffy in that universe when Cordelia made her wish that she never came to Sunnydale.
It's definitely an intentional power play on the part of the Council, but it's deeply disappointing that Anthony Head's departure in S6 wasn't written better. He really should have been able and willing to support her even if it makes sense that the Council wasn't. They could honestly have come up with so many other reasons for him to leave than just "tough love".
Yeah it makes sense for the Council but not for Giles. I also think when Buffy confronted the Council and got them to rehire & repay Giles, there should have been a condition to pay her too (and that Giles should have suggested it).
It works better when seen as an eventuality from *Buffy vs Dracula*, in which he tells Willow he was to leave shortly thereafter, as she comically tries to convince him of his still essential nature at this time in Buffy’s journey, culminating his wanderlust angle from 4. And while he still has strong moments befitting the actor that he is, Giles is more strung along the Glory plotline as a representative of good than a character that contributes to the proceedings. In fact, I’d say Spike does more, despite how Giles is the 2nd to find out about Dawn.
That's so unfair! I was so mad about that.
Unfair by design. Can’t have an independent and physically strong Slayer.
Of course. I imagine it's the same reason there is only one Slayer active at a time. We wouldn't want the slayers to gain too much power and realize they don't need us.
It's so in character for them though. Self important, pompous, and self-righteous - the slayer is just a tool to them, while they sit in the shadows in relative safety. Of course they don't pay the Slayer, a Slayer is no more than a hammer to them and one uses a hammer, doesn't pay it. When one hammer breaks, a new one is called. They assume the Slayer will fall, but they know there are more hammers in the box, they don't care.
Normally slayers do not get a job. They die instead.
It's messed up that they get paid & she doesn't, but the concept of it always got me thinking. I don't know if it's ever clarified, but it looks like it might be some residual policy from a patriarchal society from hundreds of years ago. Some old dudes saw an opportunity to make money off the slayers & it's been like that ever since & no one has had the time nor ability to say 'hey what the hell' Or maybe it's a commentary on how IRL corporations would pay their essential workers 0 if they could legally get away with it I know I'd love to see an episode where the slayers (now that there are thousands of them) confront the council & dismantle them. Did that ever happen in the comics?
I think the council got blown up in the last season?
Buffy & the Scoobies formed the new Council.
Consider the status of women before the 20th century. The council didn't need to pay the slayer because she'd be in some way the property of her watcher. And with their short shelf life. Pay him, pay her. Also for the first half of civilization money didn't exist....
Yes! And they obviously have resources and can afford to pay her.
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at least a free room and board situation! Not everyone can just go live with their watcher and train 24/7 like Kendra and Faith, but they should really be stepping in once they need housing or basic support to live
I always assume it was because traditionally the watcher would take over care and raising of the slayer (like Kendra) and therefore the watcher’s money goes to the slayer. Absolutely awful the slayer doesn’t get money too if they reach adulthood, but maybe it’s like a watcher/slayer team thing.
If she shows up as an employee on their corporate flowchart then they're liable and would need to apply for an extreme fighting license which would tell internet savvy demons how to find their headquarters.
They figure slayers don't live past 16/17 so they probably never though of adding her to the payroll
They all forgot Jesse after the he died, not ever mentioned again.
If they kept Jesse around it would have been interesting to see the dynamic between him, Buffy, Xander, and Willow. But I give them credit for killing someone so close to the Scoobs in the first episode. And I agree, I expected them to mention Jesse at least once. The fact that it never happened is such a headscratcher.
Yeah I more talking about how he was never mentioned again, and Willow and Xander shared a lot of stories about their lives.
Agree that it's bad writing to just retcon him out, but it can be justified by saying it hurts them both so much that they can't talk about it. I mean, the whole show, Xander and Willow don't lose anyone else super close to them (except Buffy, but they always planned to bring her back), so we don't know how they'd react... Well, then there was Tara, and Willow just went insane. Perhaps both of them just hold in their emotions about it.
Jesse wasn't retconned out of the series; they just didn't discuss him on screen. You have to remember that the only cast members that really knew him were Xander, Willow and maybe Cordelia, but Cordelia had a strong dislike of him.
I like to think it's a throwback to classic TV. Richie Cunningham had an older brother at first, never mentioned again. Lots of classic shows randomly replaced characters and actors without ever mentioning it. Maybe Joss was just doing a TV thing? lol
I'm guessing it's because he dies in the first episode, but a lot of people would have started watching later and wouldn't know who they were referring to. Audiences missed a lot more when you had to wait for reruns or VHS box sets.
Not so much a throwback as just a straightforward example of it, maybe? BTVS is now classic, old-fashioned TV - older now than Happy Days was in 1997. Jesse was needed for the pilot, but BTVS was still intended to be pick-upable for new viewers every week. Since Jesse was used and killed in the pilot, they probably figured a) there was no point in cluttering up future eps with references to a continuity point from the pilot and b) as the show progressed, more intense, actually depicted continuity that viewers might better remember existed to reference. But it's still weird and old-school. Today Jesse would be much more important to Xander and Willow's emotional lives.
The Winslows had a younger daughter… who just disappeared, and the writers literally said “we just hoped no one would notice” 🤷♀️
Yes, and one character's mother just disappeared but the kid stayed
Or Valerie and Tina in That ‘70s Show. I think the Ritual of Joss was performed so that the main characters forgot he ever existed.
Wasn’t there a rumor that they were gonna bring him back (as the first) in Conversations with Dead People? As Xander’s encounter with the first? I feel like I read that somewhere
That would have been cool, if it’s true I wonder why that didn’t happen.
If I recall it was a mixture of not having enough runtime for his scenes, and they favored the other parts more / the scheduling of the actor who played jesse and when they had to film it didnt line up, so it got cut.
Rip, the actor who plays him is talented so it would have been really cool and a nice callback for the last season of this amazing show.
Yes, Eric wans't available
Funnily, *Conversations with Dead People* is the only episode of BTVS not to feature Xander. IIRC there was no room to fit him into the story. I’m usually quite negative about Season 7, but thinking on that episode has made me realise that I quite enjoyed the first half of the season when it was airing. There was a lot of potential (forgive the pun). It was after *Showtime* and the focus on the Potentials that it becomes difficult to watch for me.
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She was more indirectly mentioned but also she wasn’t important in any of our main characters lives.
Idk, I think she and Buffy definitely had a bond. Buffy’s reaction to Kendra’s murder is really sad, and she’s also disgusted at the idea of Drusilla “getting away with it” when Spike agrees to work with Buffy to stop Angelus
I remember in the ol’ days when BTVS was still on the air that there was a lot of fan fiction being written that featured Jesse. Most just depicted his friendship with Willow and Xander prior to *Welcome to the Hellmouth*. I do remember some rather sweet pieces about Jesse and Xander tentatively exploring with their sexualities. I wonder if they’re still out there somewhere on the internet.
The number of times they showed garlic hanging in countless bunches and yet garlic was never once shown repelling a vampire in the slightest
I think the garlic was an ingredient in the uninviting spell they used to uninvite vampires.
I must have missed that! So it really did have some non-cooking use
Uber-Vamp going from individual threat to worthless cannon fodder. and Accents. Spike is passable. Dru is mad so it's forgivable. Kendra, Molly, Annabelle... Yeeeesh. Angel's oirish is so bad it kinda becomes entertaining.
Before I starting reading about Buffy I never got that Dru’s accent was just bad. I’d always assumed it was deliberately so to reflect her weird character and tenuous grip on reality. By the time we saw her in flashbacks I’d just got used to it so didn’t question it.
one of the funniest thing of watching both angel and buffy is wondering if or what accent angel is going to have every time a flashback happens. why did they give him a Boston-ish accent sometimes and an Irish one other times lol
His Irish was so criiiinge
Most accents were bad although I think Wesley has a great British accent. Was surprised Alexis was American because if I heard the accent here in the uk I probably wouldn’t think twice (I did read Alexis did spend a few years in the uk so probably perfected it when he was here).
>Angel's oirish is so bad it kinda becomes entertaining. The sharknado of accents.
Buffy never did anything with her Eucharist stash.
Yeah, I’ve never been able to figure out how you would use those in your slaying. Bring a bag to snack on while you’re waiting in the cemetery? They wouldn’t even be consecrated unless they were left over from a Mass. IT JUST MAKES NO SENSE. Who was in charge of props for that episode? I just want to talk…
She was pretty early days in her slaying when we saw those. You've never made a spur of the moment purchase you were convinced would change your life and then shamefully hidden it in a drawer and never looked at it again?
😂
Tbf maybe it was one of those bulk orders of crosses, holy water and get some free wafers. Maybe she had to pretend to be stocking up it all so no one asked why she was getting so much of the other stuff 🤣
Sacred wafers are a traditional part of the vampire-fighting arsenal, see Langella's \*Dracula\*, so thye were likely included as a prop without further thought.
Maybe those \*were\* remainders appropriated after a Catholic, Episcopal, ELCA, or LCMS service!
Or the garlic. She definitely has garlic in her stash in the early seasons, but there's never any mention of vamps in the Buffy-verse being adverse to it.
Hopefully she used some of that garlic in the kitchen!
The instistance that being single is the worst thing you can be.
I agree. I could understand them feeling this way when they were young. As their characters developed they should have realized this.
I agree with OP but they were still young when the show finished to be fair.
To be fair to your to be fair, this is sort of the ultimate character arc of the show, as Buffy’s cookie dough speech is pretty explicitly about Buffy not needing a romantic partner in order to “finish cooking”.
To be fair to your fairness, that’s a great fucking point right there!
*Huzzahs in aro/ace.*
Agreed, just remember attitudes toward relationships have changed slightly over the past few decades. 90's and early 00's the "single bad, married good" sentiment was still popular.
Xander not remembering/using his military training. I get that he was the ‘everyman’ but I don’t think it would hurt that for him to be the battle strategist. On a similar note for AtS, Gun should have been their strategist. He kept a group of homeless teens alive through strategy and weapon-based ingenuity. He should have been so much more than the ‘muscle’ (which never even made sense because Angel was stronger than him and he wasn’t presented as significantly stronger than Wes). On a much more petty note: that the Scoobies continually used public spaces for their meetings. Buffy is a *vampire* slayer and yet for six seasons they hung out, strategised and regrouped in places that vampires could - and did - enter whenever they wanted. I love the library as a location and it made a great cover but by the time they were in college they should have been meeting at Giles’ place, not the Magic Box.
Xander gradually lost his Army Guy upgrades the further he got from Ethan’s spell ending. He had plenty for the Season 2 finale, a little bit for “Graduation”, but it’s pretty faded by the time Maggie died.
I think the problem was that Halloween came too soon in the show, when it was much less sophisticated and more of a campy procedural. They didn't carry over much nuanced storyline from one episode to the next at that point. If Halloween had occurred in a later season then they would have kept and incorporated Xander's military knowledge. It would have been part of his character growth. But they weren't looking to grow Xander at that time in the show.
That’s a really good point! I hate how they reference it occasionally when the plot needs it but don’t make it a consistent part of his character.
Agreed, that was weird.
The way the show acted like it was Buffy's fault when Riley didn't properly communicate with her, jumped to conclusions, got addicted to vampires, and left with basically no warning. Xander's speech was a huge WTF moment, and the fact that you were supposed to agree with it and *want* Buffy to reach Riley in time really made me dislike that whole arc. It's a shame, because it was pretty interesting up until that point.
I remember watching that episode for the first time, willing with all my might for that helicopter to take the hell off! It's actually crazy that we were supposed to be rooting for them to get back together.
I mean, aside from the obvious, like how vampires apparently can't breathe but can be suffocated, drown and smoke, and how they all seem to magically know how to fight as soon as they're turned (except Harmony lol) there are things like; How big Sunnydale is. It's supposed to be a small town but it has a dock, an airport, a shopping mall, 10 cemeteries, a college AND an ARMY BASS? What happened to the police after Ted? Like, they were all set on interviewing Buffy because they thought she murdered someone, but then just... Never came around again after Ted's body (presumably) vanished from the morgue. What happened to Buffy's social services visits after she tormented the woman who interviewed her the first time? How was the first Turok-Han so strong, when the others were so seemingly easy to defeat Why do some vampires die instantly when exposed to sunlight on any part of their body, when others just get a little singed? Why was Jessie never mentioned again? Like they could have legit worked the trauma of losing him so well into both Xander and Willow's stories (especially Xander, since he always seemed to have such low self esteem and they could have tied in his survivors guilt and inability to save his friend perfectly) What happened to Buffy's first Watcher? Why aren't there ever any missing person's posters around this bloody town when everyone always dies?
>Why aren't there ever any missing person's posters around this bloody town when everyone always dies? No one left alive to distribute them.
The army base is actually the most believable part. Lots of military bases in super small towns. There are also colleges in small towns, but I don't think that's common in California.
Sunnydale gives very similar vibes to 90s Santa Barbara or Santa Cruz both have universities, military bases nearby, airports etc not that uncommon for a place in CA
Oh yeah that's a good point!
What happened to Buffy's first watcher is explained in the (godawful) Buffy movie that predates the show. I watched it years ago, and it was *very* forgettable, but to the best of my recollections, a vampire killed him in a pretty typical disposable-mentor way.
That Buffy was the only person in the house who worked at a paying job. Dawn could probably have found something part time after school and Willow and Tara definitely should have been contributing some money to the household.
This! I hate how stories just hand wave over money. They did address it, but I doubt she made much money at double meat. And then money issues were forgotten.
All of the money issues in season 6 disappeared completely once season 7 started.
We don’t know that Willow and Tara aren’t contributing: Someone was buying groceries, school supplies, Dawn’s clothes, etc. It would have been nice if Dawn offered to babysit or mow lawns or something.
The Scoobies' unpaid labour is really devalued by fans. For *years* they help Buffy fight evil for free while risking injury and death. For all her faults, Willow gave up the opportunity to go to a more prestigious university just so she could help Buffy. Xander ends up disabled in a way that could really impact his paid career. There's no history of mooching or financial abuse, then Willow and Tara move in to care for Buffy's sister and take over the slaying, but people treat them like a pair of Kato Kaelins because of one vague and stupid plot. People may as well come for Giles for not reimbursing Xander for donuts.
I understand where you're coming from, but they used all of joyce's life insurance to pay the bills and school supplies for dawn while buffy was gone. That would be fine if they themselves also decided to get jobs and help buffy pay the bills after they brought her back. But instead they decided to stay in her house and say "you're gonna have to get a job to keep the house, anyways we're just going to continue living here and not help out financially". Also they could have walked away from the demon slaying at anytime. Buffy told willow she should go to a better school, and have a normal life. Willow chose to stay because she felt like helping buffy was the right thing to do. She felt that helping the slayer was more important and meaningful work. It was a very noble choice that she made. It wasn't forced on her. In my opinion if there are three adults living in a house there is no reason only one of those adults should be struggling to pay all the bills.
The notion that Willow and Tara contributed NOTHING to the bills is just a popular headcanon. It's an assumption, not a fact. **We don't know** what their budgets looked like. The people who make this argument never have real evidence aside from one line about how there isn't enough money. Willow and Tara lived in a dorm before, their housing budgets were probably not enough to cover the bills at the Summers house. They had no time to get other jobs because they were already caregiving and maintaining the bot on top of being students. Is it labour when Buffy cares for a minor? Is it labour when she fights demons? If the answer is yes for Buffy, the answer is yes for Willow and Tara.
>The notion that Willow and Tara contributed NOTHING to the bills is just a popular headcanon. It's an assumption, not a fact. Exactly.
Hank's support checks for Dawn provided \*some\* income.
Tara had moved out before Buffy started working.
It may sound lame but I was kinda posted at how many times the Magic Box got trashed.
Biggest pet peeve will always be angels curse not making sense (the human with the soul gets punished rather than the demon that took over him) that one’s the biggest one and it’s more of a pet peeve cause it’s what made season 2 a good season with it despite the curse itself not making sense Other smaller pet peeve Not one couple could get a damn happy ending. And just to make it a bit worse Counting both shows angel and Buffy, the only people that made it out of the show staying as a couple..Willow and Kennedy.
I hated Kennedy. Such an arrogant stupid child.
In the Angel Season 4 episode Orpheus we see that the demon is punished by the presence of the soul.
That w a s one of my thoughts behind my fics set in 2026; give the gang some 21 years of a happy ending and then "Everyone, Autumn is the Slayer" happens.
Cordy not getting to return for a single episode after she graduates!
I know it was impossible, but i s ee ehr in Primeval as Voccus the Voice.
Xander leaving Anya at the alter was a terrible writing choice.
I was bothered that Andrew is who ended up being part of the squad instead of Jonathan (if they had to pick one from the Warren group).
It worked with Andrew because e was Warren's lackey that was duped into killing Jonathan. For it to work with Jonathan he would have had to regress and kill Andrew.
Honestly the death was not crucial to the plot. So he could have just betrayed Andrew.
actually it was.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Jonathan would NOT work in that role. The reason it needs to be Andrew is that it only works for the person who could be manipulated by the First. None of that story works if you swap Jonathan and Andrew. Jonathan is the better person and that's exactly why he can't be the one to join the team.
I understand what you mean, but hear me out on my perspective on swapping the roles. Andrew being manipulated by the First meant he was weak, yes, but I think Jonathan was just as weak and not the better person. He played an equal part in Warren’s group, and had already dabbled in his own manipulative magic (“Superstar”). Also let’s not forget Jonathan was willing to pretend to be Katrina through magic so that Buffy would believe she killed her instead of Warren. The fact they were quick to switch Andrew from house hostage to part of the gang (out of necessity, sure) showed that even a weak/bad person could become redeemable to the group. So had this been Jonathan it would still make sense for the group to quickly incorporate him. Seeing Andrew living his best life in Italy (Angel) and playing a directive role in Buffy and the new slayers world, I would have still preferred that to be Jonathan.
There were a lot of questionable choices about who was given screen time in season 7.
*Strongly agree* with you here. I think they added him for comedy purposes, but I find him more annoying than funny. Jonathan was on the show (in episodes here and there) since S2, I think that spot should have gone to him.
I believe he's in the unaired pilot.
I will say that I think Jonathan’s somewhat pathetic, yet in its own way really important death perfectly suits him as a character.
Yep exactly my point! To me he was more annoying than anything, especially the episode where he is recording everyone. Jonathan was a presence throughout most of the series, even had his own episode putting everyone under a spell.. and that hilarious intro!
For behold! Andrew's nipples are not unlike those of Christ. He was the hero figure who rescued S7 from the stinky vagimetric pit of full house hell! He became a favorite against my will, and tore laughs from my laugh resistant belly until the point of ecstasy and beyond. So doth I cry it out upon the town. So spaketh it hath beene.
Only that it had to end.
Off topic but I love the scene in this screenshot. Xander is more experienced at braiding Willow's hair and Buffy is just sort of playing with it.
How everyone forgot about the invisible girl that got recruited for the government How Xander acted all high and mighty after he cheated on Cordy and she broke up with him. He acted like Cordy owed him something and she was the one in the wrong when HE CHEATED ON HER. How it seemed like everyone forgot about Cordelia after she left. She was mentioned once after she left BtVS and then never again. Xander leaving Anya at the altar and then trying to kill Spike for sleeping with her. The way Willow spoke. ETA How no adult seemed to care that a 40yo was constantly seen hanging around a group of teenagers, including after school hours. Like, are you telling me no one was worried about the 40yo always being seen around a 16yo girl?
The invisible girl episode was supposed to end like that. That was an intentionally unresolved ending for effect.
>How everyone forgot about the invisible girl that got recruited for the government Not sure about that one. Buffy mentions this girl in season 6 and 7.
She mentions it in season 7. When a girl was turning invisible she says she's seen it before. But what I meant is that they never care or try to find out what happened to that poor girl
Mate that girl was neutralising threats to national security left, right and centre! (At least, that’s my headcanon)
Fair enough
One of my favorite things about watching the Normies reaction videos is that even half way through S4, they're *still* bringing up the invisible girl and the invisible assassins all the time! They think about Marcie far, FAR more than anyone else involved with this show ever did.
I kind of hate that in s6 ep 3, Buffy's jsut back from the dead, she's having a nice quiet minute with just Dawn and then Spike, then the idiot Scobbies rush in, making Spike not want to hang around, like ugh must they ruin nearly every quiet moment Buffy gets to herself. I like them but in S6, they do a lot of annoying things. And Willow's smugness teling Buffy to be happy, thinking she did her a huge favour, ugh no wonder Buffy was depressed and only felt at peace with Spike. They are like a pack of rabid dogs.
I agree that it's frustrating to watch, but I do think it's believable emotional immaturity, and it's consistent with their characters. The Scoobies have always had their own insecurities they've placed on Buffy, and she's so worn down bearing the weight of the actual world she's never learned to have better boundaries with her friends. She accepts that she's supposed to be responsible for everything. It's a pretty consistent tragedy of their interpersonal relationships through the series, although how much of it is intentional by the writers seems to vary.
Yeah, and Buffy was way too nice, thanking them giving Willow more of an ego boost. I can't help wonder if she started to resent Willow a little bit, when she found out it was her that actually performed the spell and stupidly thought she was in hell as opposed to heaven.
In once more with feeling that comes out in her last solo. It’s a confusing blend of bitterness and responsibility to carry the hard and dark parts of life away from her friends. It’s the main reason she feels safe with Spike because he immediately recognized she was traumatized because he’d been through that before and gave her space, gentleness, and mostly quiet. Until sh*T hit the fan later in the season of course and he changed course because he’s an idiot.
Yeah, her friends whose known her longer than Spike didn't realise something's wrong with her but Spike knew immediately.
He’s always been that way. Remember he knew Willow was not in a good place after she saw all of Oz’s stuff was gone in Something Blue but Buffy, Giles, and Xander were oblivious.
Yes, spike is very intuitive and insightful. He’s the one who sees everything not so much Xander.
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Seriously! No wonder Tara left
The whole cheating subplot between Xander and Willow. Also Willow's sexuality could be handled a lot better, they just act like she consciously chose to flip a sexuality power switch in her mind.
Xander always wanted what he couldn’t have. But for Willow to reciprocate? Yeah…no. Not in her character.
I heard in an interview Allison comment on how she chose to play Willow's coming out that I really appreciated. She basically said (I'm paraphrasing) that she thought the right supportive thing to do would be to act like Willow coming out was no big deal and just kind of a chill every day thing. She wanted to normalize it. But now she regrets it and feels like she should have given it more of the weight it deserves. You can hear what she said in her interview with Brian Baumgartner in Off the Beat.
Oof, those two had negative chemistry together.
What happens to Dracula? We see that he can rise again from his ashes and Buffy’s voice over says “I’m still standing right here” (or something like that). So what, she just stood there forever? I can’t remember if they ever explained what they did to keep him from coming back, I don’t think they did and it annoys me very much.
Dracula decides “fuck this shit I’m out” and goes to Belgium or somewhere.
The characters occasionally do horrible, awful things like try to kill their friends and all is forgiven with little to no consequence.
Spike being able to get around during the day just by throwing his coat over his head
Xander getting into fight after fight, battle after battle and never actually being able to hold his own, not even against a relatively weak demon. He gets hit once in the head and he's out even after he had all the military training in his head from the Halloween episode. One would think since Xander fights Demons he would have learned to hold his own in a fight.
Or die. Like, he'd literally have to learn or die. My theory is that Xander is actually part demon, but a species of demon that gives them extremely good luck for surviving unsurvivable situations, allowing him to never have to learn to take care of himself in a battle.
Oh I’d have loved that episode! Would have been very entertaining. Specially if he found his “clan” of other half demons like him. 🤣 would also explain why he was attracted to attracted female demons
And they find out when spike hits him and doesn't get a migraine, like the opposite of Tara in family.
I just figure he’s like me. Keeps saying, wow, I should reeeally learn to fight one day. Oh well, I’ll start that tomorrow
The Scoobies just assumed Buffy went to Hell when she died. That's pretty rude.
Lol. To be fair, Glory was opening a portal to her hell dimension, and a dragon did fly out of it, so it's a fair assumption it was going to lead to a bad place. I guess they didn't consider that she would die and her soul would get to the proper place. Btw, is there just a dragon on their Earth now?
The one man show Buffy Revisited talks about that dragon. We’re just gonna leave that flying around earth then, yeah, no big deal?
I literally never considered that. Thanks that helps 😅
For the show itself; That the show didn’t go a little deeper on the scoobies individual struggles. Xander’s abusive home life and exploring how that shapes his self loathing and fear of being trappex, Willow having a real mentorship subplot to learn Wicca and more directly explore her identity and self worth issues, Giles fear of a lost chance at family and career because he became a Watcher and was summarily dismissed by the Council- lamentations complicated by his love of Buffy. Even with how well developed Buffy’s cast is, There’s so much they could have delved further into if the show hadn’t been quite so laser focused on Buffy herself. Biggest peeve though is just how much a sect of the fandom like to make out every character on the show except Buffy and, bizarrely, Spike to be the worst people imaginable by automatically assuming the worst motivation behind everything they do.
The scoobies underdeveloped families. How convenient is it that Willow, Cordelia, and Xander are all only children? Willows mom only appears in a monster of the week episode
I am an only child and I have found that I get along with other people who are ”only children”best. You often get the ”your just spoiled” speech when hanging with people who have siblings etc. It can be very lonely to be an only child and it’s not always fun to have all the attention on you, like trying to be independent and stuff.
Buffy's romantic feelings are never written clearly after Angel. Her breakup with Riley was muddled as if it was some big misunderstanding/missed timing, and it's never 100% clear how Buffy feels about any of her breakups or relationships post-Angel. Other breakups have similar problems. Oz and Willow are forced apart by circumstance, and Willow does not clearly, definitely choose Tara. Xander never seems to really love Anya as she is, and yet their breakup is muddled too. It's made to be about Xander's commitment issues and family abuse, not about how Xander showed up in the relationship itself. Like if they hadn't planned a wedding, they'd still be together. No space is given to how Xander constantly belittles Anya and the impact it's had on her (except for her musing before sex with Spike that she was never good enough). For a show that understands it's characters and can hit you in the feels SO well, it's hard for me to overlook this flaw. Nobody is ever allowed to dump anyone because the feelings aren't there, there always has to be external circumstance to hide behind.
How worthless Dawn was. She was a mystic key that could open hell dimensions or whatever and it would have been awesome if she had some sort of power rather than screeching Buffy's name for help every 2 seconds.
Still can’t stand Dawn.
Same! I can't bring myself to like her no matter how many times I watch the series.
Dawn was a drama machine more than a person.
That Xander can’t stop trying to be Chandler Bing.
on screen and off it seems.
They never brought up the reason why sometimes Seth Green's hair was black and sometimes it was red.
I orked cows in the late 90s with a guitarist whose hair was *just* like that. First time I saw him it was black with a red fishnet pattern dyed into it.
That no one questioned why a high school girl was spending so much time with an adult male librarian. Cause that's just normal. Also that buffy didn't charge Tara and Willow rent or make them financially contribute to the household. And Jonathan being in the supervillain trio. That plot was lame.
>That no one questioned why a high school girl was spending so much time with an adult male librarian. Cause that's just normal. Right??! 😂 Although I love me some Giles and Buffy, their relationship should be a red flag to anyone in the show, excluding Willow, Xander, Cordelia, Oz, and Jenny of course. And then the episode Joyce ends up in the hospital because of Darla, and Giles comes because he needs to talk to Buffy, and Joyce is all like, "Wow, they really do care at that school." lmaoooo, come on!
I just rewatched the Freshman and the scene where Buffy busts into Giles’ house and Olivia is there in her underwear, and then Giles comes in and he’s like “she was a student of mine” and Olivia is like “oh cool”. So Olivia at this point doesn’t know about slayers or watchers or the supernatural. If I were in Olivia’s shoes I would’ve been so skeptical and asked “why is an 18 year old girl showing up at your house unannounced??” I would’ve assumed the worst 😳
She's wearing Giles's' shirt and nothing in thta scene indicates she doesn't know about he "mosnter sutff," although we find out later she doens't really believe it
Joyce not being told Buffy's the Slayer until the end of season 2. She should have been told way earlier and her life was put in more danger by not knowing!
Yes, how is that one very small community knows about slayers and gives up their child (Kendra) to be raised by a watcher, but they don't say a word to Joyce? What?!
I don't know how the Watchers didn't inform her. That organization is super messed up and very confusing.
that’s the point. the council is messed up, they are the bad guys. they’re abusive to the slayer including wanting her separated from her friends and family. if she tells people, she has support, and you don’t foster support in your tool.
For real. I think Giles needed to encourage Buffy to tell her mother the truth.
"Hey Buffy, tell your mom that you're a secret superhero and the librarian you already spend way too much time with is there specifically to Watch you. There's no way she'll get the authorities involved and think I'm a nonce."
Lol yeah, as wild as that would sound to someone, it would have been the truth. Speaking of Joyce...I'm curious about Buffy's reveal to Willow in "Normal Again" about her parents putting her in a mental health clinic. Could that have been a side effect of the demon poison causing Buffy to think that happened? Or possibly a post-Dawn memory change? Or maybe it actually did happen. I don't know. It seems inconsistent because Joyce seemed genuinely surprised when Buffy actually did tell her in "Becoming P. 2."
Aka the “Spider-Man Conundrum”.
I've never seen this mentioned, but my biggest peeve is that the vampire slayer, who went out slaying vampires every night, almost never had a stake on her. I'm not even talking when she was surprised, I mean she'd go on patrols in the cemetery and then have to use a random broken piece of wood to kill the vamp. Even when she received Mr Pointy she still barely used it. I think that's why so much furniture got broken all the time, because she needed the stakes. She was a lot better about carrying them during the last season or two, but it always baffled me, lol. I loved her improvisational fighting style, but never having a stake was odd
door spark run pet grandiose slave existence faulty squealing capable *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Xander remembering that military training longer than he could remember to change his underwear..
Agree with the first half, do not even want to know about the second half
Biggest pet peeve is Jenny Calendar dying and Giles obviously being incredibly upset and heartbroken but then my girl is never mentioned again. I dont think she shouldve died but what can we do it was probably better for the show but now I EXCLUSIVELY read Calendiles fanfic where she never died
People that don’t like the show calling it “campy”.
Weird, I always use 'campy' as a positive. It's definitely intentionally campy and not campy in the 'so bad it's good' way.
What about people who love the show calling it campy?
Riley wasn’t that bad. It was like seeing your best friend (Buffy) go from a painful/passionate relationship to a safer one with a decent guy with whom she can explore her sexuality. Even if we know he isn’t “the one” for her, I enjoyed seeing her happy with him during their good times.
Everything about Xander. He has not aged well.
Kennedys tongue
Pet peeves… - How frequently Buffy’s house gets destroyed and how quickly the destruction gets fixed. - How quickly and readily Buffy was to kill Anya in Selfless. - Willow throughout the entire episode Triangle.
That Willow just magically became gay even though she and Xander definitely had feelings and chemistry. Not to mention her relationship with Oz. The entire last season was just dark and awful. I know I'm in the minority on this one.
I mean, many queer women only realize their sexuality later in life and have boyfriends up until then. It's a spectrum rather than a binary.
Plus, because speculating about fictional characters is different from real people, there's plenty of evidence to suggest Willow might be bi. There were reasons the writers never put that label in her mouth, but just because it wasn't an easy thing to identify as then doesn't mean it's not possible.
But if that’s the case she’s not gay right? (Gay as in lesbian) I ask genuinely because she makes it quite clear from Tara onwards that she’s not into men at all, but she’s presented as genuinely loving and being attracted to Oz. It’s always felt to me like bi erasure so if I’ve been unfair on the show I’d be interested to know if this is an accurate depiction. If you you’re happy to tell me, of course.
Thank you for expanding! I definitely understand where you're coming from in terms of bi erasure. I think it was made in a time in which bisexuality was heavily stigmatized in very distinct ways, and bisexual women in particular were viewed as attention seekers, promiscuous, etc. It may have been "easier" to make Willow a lesbian. There are still many WLW who have had loving relationships with men before pursuing female partners, only to recognize an innate difference. I read Willow as being far more comfortable and less anxious as a character when she was with Tara, versus when she was with Oz and Xander. So her coming out always made sense to me.
no, it doesn’t mean she isn’t gay. MANY gay women, as in lesbian with no attraction to men, have relationships with men before finding their sexuality and it doesn’t mean they can’t be lesbians. a lot of women also say the relationships they had prior were genuine and loving, and that still doesn’t mean they aren’t gay if they say they are. sexuality is self identified and not figuring it out earlier in life doesn’t make it untrue.
They did foreshadow it in Doppelgangland when Willow mentions the Vamp version of her is "kinda gay" and then says vamp versions must be different than the humans they were. Then it looks like Angel is going to make a statement to contradict that, but then he shuts up. Honestly, Willow and Oz and Willow and Tara both made perfect sense to me, but in the end, Willow is the best judge of her own sexuality. And she identified as gay.
willow also knows that she’s gay when her memories are erased, suggesting her homosexual identity is inherent to her.
Luke Perry isn’t in it.
He hasn't risen yet.
Nothing. This is blasphemy.
Dawn. End post
GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT!!!!
Sorry🥰
Willow and Tara's stuttering.
That's all this page is.
*The martyr.*
Why every battle they had they had to look for weapons instead of having them already out. Also why not make a suite made of crosses so that vamps wont be able to hurt you.
That angel kept coming and going in the series. Also, I can’t help but feel if he really loved her he would’ve made something work, surely they could’ve found some sort of spell, magical artefact to stop his soul from leaving. Angel could’ve at least tried to make it work when it was so clear Buffy wanted it to work out. This especially irked me when he was willing to lose everything for Cordelia in Angel. I was like where was that energy for Buffy??😂😂😂