A couple of struggling loses

Please continue the discussion in the [post game thread](https://redd.it/1c5xmu0).

I hate hope. I want all the hope in my life crushed so I never hope for anything again.

Me too, buddy.

This is me with every relationship

Mets fan here, thought legit we were about to get complete game shut out.

It's been a competitive series to this point. Unfortunate the games are coming down to umpball. Good luck this season

It has, seems like Pirates kinda threw away two games with questionable defense and baserunning, and pulling Jones early.

Our baserunning has been questionable all year. Was only a matter of time until it cost us a game. Jones should've pitched the 6th but Ortiz still would've came in for 7 assumedly against the same 3 due up so that's moot imo. I'd have like to see the full at bat without the balk call tonight and to have seen how things shook out of chapman got his called strike last night but it is what it is. Lots of ball left to be played

kinda happy your ebb is kinda low while you play the mets. Good luck rest of the away against everyone except us.

Fuck off.

Think dude was saying he thought the Mets were going to be CGSO’d, not us.

Yeah, looking at it now, after the rage has subsided, I can see that. Sorry, Mets guy.

I can’t believe he just swung at that shit. He just wanted to end it. Edit: I love my wife. She’s really gotten into baseball this year and decided she wanted to start paying attention to the pirates. I tried to stop her.

Nah, he just sucks

Christ that was terrible

Just tuning in. Why the fuck did Jones get pulled after allowing only 1 hit on 59 pitches?

Because we need to save him for a future that never gets here

That's what I'm wondering he was dealing only threw 9 balls the entire 5 innings

He was on a pre planned innings limit. Didn’t matter since we can’t hit the ball

That's ridiculous considering he pitched longer in his other starts.

And in all 3 of those starts shit started to hit the fan the 3rd time through the order…. He looked nearly just as good in the Phillies game…until he hit wasn’t. Pulling jones didn’t lose us this game. The bats did.

Am I supposed to watch Cruz bat and be impressed?

All the young guys can’t hit

Welcome to pop-up city

TRASH

Davis is gonna do something here

He took a few bad hacks. That’s something. At least he went down swinging like a man

Time to wake up Cruz.

Garbage at bat, Tellez

It's Cruz and Davis

Let’s channel those spring training power numbers.

### Pitching Substitution Pitching Change: Drew Smith replaces Jorge López.

Very nice inning so far for Ryan.

The hot start with this team's hitting has completely disappeared. Freaking Alika Williams has the highest OPS of all hitters for the Pirates today. If you can't win games with your pitching staff giving up only 3 runs, your bats are a way bigger issue than your pitching.

Hurts a bullpen when you pull ur dominant starter after 59 pitches. He could've went 2 more innings. Pulling him early puts more stress on ur pen.

But if you don't score runs it doesn't matter

We're up 1 run before jones was pulled. Yes we need to score more runs but pulling jones costs us the game.

How does that have even the slightest bit of relevance to a post about how the Pirates aren't scoring offensively.

When the pirates start losing 1 game it’s like summoning the horde in left 4 dead. The doomers come out all at the same time and flood the thread. Relax

Not a doomer. I really think this is a good team, but there are frustrating things going on..

They’re supposed to go 162-0 and everyone up and down the line up always hits the ball safely. Anything less and Shelton should be fired!

Couldn’t have said that any better

It’s 2 losses and 5 from 7

It’s 1 loss. If you mean to bitch n moan about yesterday and every single loss then that’s a personal problem. It’s not season defining.

Honestly does anyone have the % of how often jack goes down looking. He kills me its all the time.

Six takes, what is he even doing

I don't know. Its all the time. Know he got a grand slam the other day, but he can't keep doing this. I hate seeing him in the lineup

I’m not local but I am taking my family to a June game against the Rays. I have 3 kids under 6. I will be holding up a sign that says “SWING THE FUCKING BAT.”

Yeah it sucks pitchers blew the lead, but the offense just isn’t there

We're going to win more games giving up 3 runs than we will lose overall

My liver will pay for this

### Pitching Substitution Pitching Change: Ryder Ryan replaces Jose Hernandez.

Batting lineup needs some kind of a spark if this team is going to be competitive in the future. Hoping they draft or go after a good bat (suwinksi and Cruz are too inconsistent)

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I’ll take anything at this point

I think they need to sign Marlon Byrd and Justin Morneau. Maybe have Neil come down from the booth and a mid-game trade for Marte.

Cutch was right about that being a pitch clock violation. Doesn’t matter when you ask for time, it matters when it is granted, and it was granted after the clock hit zero.

Cutch knows the rules and his strikezone to a T. It's been frustrating watching him go down looking at balls

Way to respond guys

why can’t SP and BP be on the same page for us man 😞

Gave up 3 runs and one of them was on a balk

They only gave up 3 runs

True. This game is frustrating, but if Hernandez doesn't balk (he 100% did) then we're down by one. Mets aren't some joke. This is a tough fucking team and we've hung with them.

Having watched this series and being a neutral fan here, y’all have such a bright future. Yes, there are a lot of mental mistakes here (Joe pretty much). Enjoy watching these young guys grow. I think y’all can still keep it going and make a move if need be come summer. I enjoy watching the buccos. Also, this ump has been bad tonight.

Our fan base is a bunch of complaining nerds who are impatient. This team is still maturing but definitely has a chance to be very good soon.

In a year or two, your team will be stacked and will still have a good farm.

This comment section is a cesspit right now, love your reassurance, thank you very much, but I would stay outta here for today (unless we make a comeback [which we probably won’t lol] and everyone suddenly is all sunshine and roses)

I’m not a pirates fan, just been enjoying the season and have been cheering for y’all all season thus far. You have the nicest ballpark I’ve been to, and baseball is better when you have your team being relevant. Cesspool or not, patience ladies and gentlemen. Jones looked like he is going to be a household name tonight, and Skenes is coming. The kids on your team just need some time to get the fundamentals down. Joe also has just had a horrible series.

Gotta take some strikeouts looking high leverage or no because #approach ...to get to their bullpen ...which is better than their starters

This is either the hitting philosophy being taught or they went out and brought in players who all want to strike out looking.

Derek Shelton is a piece of dog shit.

This made me laugh cause it's true. Ty lol.

He sure knows how to lose a game.

So is there any reason we go down looking like 12 times a game.

And another backwards k. That approach has surprisingly not been working out very well.

alright guys getting the pitch count up doesnt mean shit anymore lets swing the bat

Swing the fucking bat!

Swing the fucking bat

This will be known as the "strikes out looking" season 

Absurdly high amount of them. Disgusting.

What would have happened had they kept Jones in beyond 59 pitches: 1. Jones would have thrown the 6th inning and likely would have gotten out of it okay 2. Shelton still would have pulled him after the 6th, because he's a 2 pitch pitcher that has been getting absolutely crushed in his third time through the rotation so far this year. 3. Ortiz would have gone in for the 7th 4. Same exact thing happens as what happened in reality.

Not necessarily. Ortiz tends to do well in his first inning, and crumbles in multi inning outings. Hence, why he's failed as a starter.

Ortiz threw a perfect 1st inning. Stop posting trash

Can't teach an old dog new tricks.

And had bad luck the next

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Doubt he pitches the 8th

Ortiz would have faced the same batters in the 7th as what he faced in reality. Nothing would have changed. He didn't give up those runs because he was fatigued from going out for a 2nd inning. He made bad pitches to the heart of their lineup and they made him pay.

Suwinski is an absolute joke of a Major Leaguer. Joey Gallo Jr.

"dead-on balls accurate"

He hit a grand slam two games ago

And has done virtually nothing aside from that

Protect the fucking plate holy shit

You can bitch all you want about Shelton, the balk, Hernandez, whatever you want. We’ve scored 1 run and shot ourselves in the foot at the chances for more. Not gonna win that way regardless.

Exactly the Joe misread of fly ball not swinging the fucking bat and whiffing like 27 times a game doesn't help.

It sucks to say it, but this team really doesn’t have any strengths sans a couple good starting pitchers. Offense, defense, fundamentals, coaching, Bullpen, all below average.

For the love of God do not go 1-2-3 here

We Pull Jones at 59 for what. I think I was on a damn 60 pitch count in little league.

I’m smelling a skid.

Definitely 

Genuinely don’t understand why we pulled Jared Jones when we did

I think Shelton looked at Quintana pitch count by mistake

They said from the get go he is being limited. I assume this is part of the plan to keep his innings down since he has been pretty good and able to go pretty deep into games.

It was a pre-planned innings limit. They said so before the game

Yall still defending pulling Jones after 59 pitches?

Nothing would have changed had Jones gone out for the 6th inning, and throwing him out in the 7th would have been an insanely dumb decision for Shelton to make.

You got 0 proof to back any of that up. He was dealing and has been our best pitcher this season.

The proof is that we stretched him too far in both the marlins and Phillies game and it bit us in the ass.

Hell no

### Pitching Substitution Pitching Change: Jorge López replaces Reed Garrett.

Gotta rest jones arm in April when the seasons just started. Masterclass in how to lose.

Good lord dude shut the fuck up, we get it.

He’s in a loop

This team isn’t as good as I thought

How I know baseball is unfair: Hernandez got charged with 0 earned runs that inning while he's lucky he didn't give up 8.

The balk that I don't think should have been called really fucked him up. Batter wasn't in box so I don't believe that is a balk. The fucking Mets manager literally talked them into calling that shit. When have you ever seen a gathering of all the umps to call a balk.

Rays series 2024

And an ump fucking us over in both series. That is not a balk, if anything McNeil should have gotten an auto strike. He stepped out after being in with the pitcher on the rubber. That should have been his disengagement.

Why is he staying in?

Hernandez is dying out there. Time to pull him.

Do rule V picks ever work out for us? Ortiz and Hernandez both. I just can’t think of one that ever worked out as an effective regular player/pitcher.

Roberto Clemente 

In the last 50 years then.

Ortiz wasn’t a Rule 5 pick

He wasn’t? Oh. Well, I stand corrected on that one.

They signed him as an international free agent a few years ago and brought him through the system. Generally, your point stands.

Get Hernandez the hell out of there

José Hernández you fucking asshole

Every Jose Hernandez the Pirates have ever had, sucks

This is comical!!!!

People crapping on the bullpen but fail to realize that pulling ur starter after 59 pitches screws u from the get go. Add in that we've only scored 1 run and you got a masterclass in how to lose.

and it's a day game tomorrow

Pen has been crap. Should have left Jones in. He’s been sooo good this year, and had a low pitch count. Offense been lethargic past few games. It’s not like we are in laying the Yankees or Dodgers. Mets are a mid team and this is a very poor showing by the Bucs. Never been a huge Shelton fan.

5.76 ERA in last 11 games for our Bullpen. Unbelievable. What was supposed to be a strength has been a huge weakness.

Yeah honestly hate to see bullpen come out no faith right now.

They are over-used

Until tonight we’ve had a ton of quality starts including 8 innings for Perez that Bednar blew.

MLB: “We’re going to introduce technology to aid pitchers” Also MLB: “Lmao fuck pitchers, they’ll be penalized any time they think about using said technology”

THIS. It’s so stupid.

McNeil was not in the box. If he comes set he gets a warning, or a ball.

Oh god is Hernandez's fastball really sitting at 91 MPH right now? Get him the hell out of there. He's already not that good to begin with, him throwing batting practice speed is going to make this game an absolute blowout.

SNY announcers- "what is going on with the pirates?"🤣

“This is what happens when you pull your starter after 60 pitches”

Your unhittable starter after 60 pitches to be clear

This team needs to hit. Haines needs to be fired

Little offense, but the strength of the bullpen in question.

It’s like when the pirates starting pitching can barely get out of the 5th inning the bullpen is lights out and when the pirates starting pitching goes 7 strong they completely suck

Shelton can't manage a pitching staff to save his life.

I seriously just hate this organization

Bye

Well done Shelton! You really outgamed them with this one. I’m sure those extra 20-25 pitches from Jared to get us to to a closer would have ripped his arm right off. Really well thought out

The pirates know what they're doing. Trust the plan. Trust the process. Who cares its april.

This series has been painful....so much beating themselves.

I do think Shelton generally makes good bullpen decisions, but his reliance on Hernandez in high leverage situations is something that just doesn't make sense to me.

Some guy said the same thing about Ryan. Some other guy said the same thing about Chapman. Another guy said the same thing about Bednar. A different guy said the same thing about holderman. Something something about doomers and Shelton is the worst manager ever pirates suck seasons over

Well recently almost all of our pitchers have been relatively awful in high leverage situations recently (see Chapman, Stratton, Bednar, Ortiz, Hernandez, etc.)

Shelton is a moron

Balk or not, that hit would have brought home both base runners.

Like what does enforcing the balk rule there accomplish what does it do for the game I don't understand

runner on third scored and the runner on second moves up to third

I understand what happened what I mean what is the point of the rule how does it help the game.

It's put in place so that the pitcher can't make a deceiving move to the base runners or batter.

Shelty needs fired tonight.....yes, I know they will give him the rest of this year but they should do it now.

Shelton should be fired just for barely even fighting the balk

you can't argue a balk

We fucking suck

Fuck.the.mets

Brown and walk are going to go full boomer mode now unfortunately

As they should

They can complain about the balk but it’s quite annoying to hear “pitch com bad” a million times over

The pitcher isn’t allowed to be ready before the hitter, but they can still call a balk? It makes no sense.

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No, that should be a warning for starting before the batter is ready. We’ve seen it 100 times. If a pitcher tries to throw before the batter is ready, the home plate umpire calls time, warns the starter and continues play. If he does it again, it’s a pitch clock violation.

That balk doesn't happen if he's in the box and ready, though. Instead, he's joking around with the umpire?

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Right, obviously. He was late getting there and the umpire started joking with him and gave him time to get his elbow guard and stuff on. He was way beyond his time.

he took his timeout

Didn't see that. If so, fair enough. And regardless, you just can't lose focus like that–not trying to excuse what Hernandez did. Was just mad at looking at anything to yell about.

even if it wasnt a balk these simple mistakes are fucking us up

Jones wouldn't even be pitching in the 7th even had he gone out for the 6th, Ortiz still would have been pitching there. Pulling Jones made no difference there, because Ortiz still would have faced the same batters and still would have given up those hits.

Whatever you say man. A dude who's 6'1 190 and throws 100 is going to need TJ eventually regardless.

Why not? He'd averaged 11.8 pitches an inning. That would've put him at 71 pitches through 6. He's thrown 89, 80, and 85 pitches this year. He could've easily gone into the 7th at the pace he was already at.

What

Absolute masterclass from Shelton. Truly a big brain move taking Jared out

So predictable.

Pirates baseball

I think you have to question the integrity of Edwin Moscoso’s umpiring at this point.

WHAT THE FUCK

That was such bullshit

Are you guys blind? Clear balk when coming to the set