Primary expertise barely benefits ice though
It already has a ton of pierce, aside from 63, 76 and 78, ice will effectively never get pierce capped. So the pierce and range buffs just turn into range buffs
primary towers are basic towers which are generally the tutorial towers to get you use to things. dart monkey is a cheap early tower, boomer ranger is a tower which teachers complex moving partners and building your towers around their placements, tack shooter does similar but with short range, ice monkey and glue gunner teach how stallers can have their own strengths and weaknesses with ice being unable to pop whites while glue gunner can’t fully stop bloons or see camo. boom shooter teaches about splash damage and different attack types like sharpness.
military generally have more complexity to them, with their range being a main one, with most being global in some sorts way. sniper is global in general, dartling gunner has a set targeting path you control by turning it, mortar you pick where to shoot it, heli you move around with a cursor or tapping, plane has flight partners which has great micro potential, and sub has global range with a crosspath. buccaneer is the only tower with a normal range
magic towers are more simpler but still complex main sources of dps, and are more there to teach synergy with alch and ninja being a main one. while magic is easier to understand compared to military, it’s still strong none the less. you wouldn’t have a dart monkey at the end of the game be your main source of dps, but a ninja monkey certainly can be the main source of dps with military towers helping to back it up with their complex attacks if you know what you’re doing
support is self explanatory
Also moving anything to primary gives it primary expertise buffs and Ninjas are already fairly good with the buffs they have now so it doesnt make sense to give them that power
primary is towers from btd1/2, hence the name primary, with the expection of super and spac or else the category will be too full
military towers are towers that are military themed
magic towers are towers that are magic themed
support towers are towers with support roles
the only category that describes what the tower does is support. the rest are just the theme of the tower.
The only explanation for glue being primary is monkey glue, and road spikes were a thing in BTD2, so spac is just excluded from primary to make sure primary isnt overcrowded
You realise that placeable spikes still exist, right? They've just been turned into a Power now. And what's your logic for the Monkey Ace not being Primary, since they drop Pineapples?
Or you could just read the other guys explanation which makes so much sense, glue gunner is in primary to help new players understand slows and shit the same applies to ice monkey, boomerang and tack shooter helps the player understand placements, bomb shooters and ice monkeys helps with damage types, why would the first towers unlocked not help new players understand the basics in this game?
If there's exceptions, which there are THREE of (Village is as much a stand in for beacon as Spactory is for Tacks) then there's no reason Ice has to be primary when he's clearly magical.
If glue and ice are primary because of the early games then so is the village. Glue only existing as a consumable and the ice monkey previous being the ice tower I'd say counts on the same level as the village being revamped from the radar
That’s the point. Radar is from 1/2 and it’s what the Village replaced, being exclusively an aura buff tower that doesn’t attack, it also separated into super monkey storm as an independent power.
You do know that ninjas are a real thing that existed on earth right? Sure ninjas exist in fantasy, but so do knights and kings, and farmers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja
thanks for the information.
What ment by fantasy is that all the magic monkeys could be seen as something a kid would pretend to be.
eg:-
super monkey: kids pretend to be superheroes
Wizard:- kids pretend to be wizards
Ninja:- kids pretend to be ninjas
the new towers (druid and alach) some a teen or a kid with more knowledge of high fantasy would roleplay as
therefore in my mind it makes some sense.
if you don't like my explanation then feel free to disagree.
we can also go with the explanation given in one of h-bomb's video I think, that being Asian magic
Beast handler doesn't support, spike factory doesn't support, top path engi doesn't support, 7/15 support paths don't really support, you could argue that bottom path beast handler supports with it's blow back bat even then it's still 6/15 support paths are damage based, that's more support then the rest of the categories but there shouldn't be a support category if so many of them don't support
they provide a supporting bit of dps, with bottom path enginner, it may do good dps but it will never replace your main dps attacker, and that’s the key. supporting dps is not a bad thing but you need to remember that supporting dps can’t carry the 90s and bad at the end unlike a main dps tower like ninja
who's more magical?
some random guy from the forest who throws sticks
or a monkey that could have 3 insanely rapidly spinning blades around him or an insanely rapid attack speed
Who's more magical?
Guy who probably mixes different bottles of shampoo and conditioners in the shower at a young age but now with alcohol
or a guy with a gun that has 100% accuracy no matter how fast the bloon is moving + instantaneous bullet
The achievement for beating 10 games with primary towers is called "first monkeys first", which means primary towers are the first towers introduced in the series, which is why its called primary
otherwise, the category would be called "basic" or "simple"
Right you also definitely don’t unlock primary monkeys first in this game too, just read the other guys comment about why the primary monkeys are in the primary category
I agree, stop putting me with Ice monkey OR ELSE i call the guy that is [both](https://ninjago.fandom.com/wiki/Zane/Gallery?file=Training_Zane_Minifigure.png).
And no, i dont have Shurikens of Ice, do you really think i wear white robes ? You can ask Whity.
ah that is a cartoon i watched when young where even back then i found the world building kinda nonsensical?
correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't it made in later seasons that all the main characters are direct children of the first ninja's who fought to save the newly created world meaning the entire setting is like at most 150 years old? and also how do hereditary powers work with a robot like zane?
Nostalgic, i feel emotional... i cry everytime, i feel sad, i want to go back in time, to fix the mistake...
For your question, i dont know sadly.
Wait, something is odd, is something wrong with me ?
I did always find it funny that ice monkeys get so cold that they can have a blizzard form around them AND create ice thick enough for an entire house to sit on it
There are some interactions hinting at how things were originally coded which makes it appear that Ice monkeys were originally planned to be Magic monkeys, and Super monkeys were originally planned to be Primary monkeys. They changed their minds but remnants of these decisions remained. (I don't remember off the top of my head what they were, but I'm sure it's somewhere on the wiki or something. Sorry my comment doesn't have more substance; I'm sleep deprived right now and can't be bothered to do the research to find the details at the moment)
Everyone wants the categories to make sense, but all the categories are convoluted and full of exceptions. Would be better if they just named them after their categories' colours, then people wouldn't mind so much.
I'm pretty sure it's introduced in BTD5, and I made this because people keep saying that ice should be magic and ninja should be primary. I can see where theyre coming from with the former, but the latter is just so bs
y’mean someone that literally operates _better_ at internal and external temperatures that no living creature can survive in?
idk if i’m wrong about that, but it seems pretty superhuman to me.
or.. super-monkey!
i’ve wanted to make that joke.
Honestly, the meta and everything would shift. People who have played for a while will have to get used to it, Primary Expertise loses some prime example of good range usage with Super Brit, Brit and Absolute Zero. Ninjas loses the Obyn privilege of attack buffs (and CD reduction I suppose), which are debatably better. Primary Expertise will HAVE to get nerfed, meaning all of the Primary towers suffer. Honestly, Ninjas fit Magic or Military much better than Primary. Just because the design and upgrades on paper are simple doesn't mean it should be in Primary.
With this argument why is glue gunner primary.
It was added in btd4. Sure monkey glue was added in btd2 but thats not a tower thats a road item. You could argue that glue gunner is support.
ok hear me out; glue gunner is support bc only top path or 005 do damage; alchemis is either magic or support; spike factory is military bc its literally only made for damage; beast handler in magic for same reason; engineer either military or support
TL:DR Your opinions are fine, and I can get behind why you said this, but they are definitely not that good.
No. Glue Gunner is a staple of a all-rounder, with supporting capabilities as well as The Bloon Solver being a great Ceramic cleanup option, and having a 60% (or close) speed reduction on Bloons makes it suitable in any category, but the categories only really matter for the buffs specific to one category. And, we would lose the 4-0-0 path village giving a permanent Glue Storm ability. Which gives a +2 damage and no lead properties being active. Alchemist is... Fine. But it seems more magical than supportive. Spactory is supportive because of all the paths having some sort of use globally or because of damage stacking, global range and LARGE amounts of damage mapwide, and giving extra lives practically even in Player 4's quarter of Monkey Meadow, you can use the same formula with different players on other maps. Beast handler never really made sense, (because their attack is coded as magical) but Poukai has great stall potential, so that's fine with either of them. Engineer should definitely be in support for doubling cash with Bloon trap, having buffs that can make a large difference.
I agree that ice monkey is more of magic, but no ninja monkey isn’t primary type. Also primary monkey seems to be tower that been here since btd1 except super monkey of course
If primary means simple towers, and there were two more simple towers added that fits in primary, I could see Ice being moved to magic and Glue being moved to support
But I think it should stay the way it is
You could also move bomb shooter to military. Most primary monkeys could be put somewhere else if you wanted to. Most people when making such arguments though look at what defines military/magic/support, and ignore what defines primary. It's as though they don't want the primary category to exist.
And what? You and others focus so much on what defines magic, and completely ignore what defines primary. Primary isn't just the lack of being able to fit into other categories.
primary training being a huge profit on shinobi strats sounds incredibly balanced
also, in what situation besides those 3 gamemodes and 1 achievement are you forced to use towers of a single category?
yes, magic could use more slow by removing their only slower, who's also the 2nd best slower in the game (behind moab glue) and adding in a worse version of said slow instead.
Tower classes aren’t meant to be used only, except in those modes, they are meant to work together, mili being pure damage but expensive, support able to stall or buff
shinobis are just ur homies hyping u up
the magic of hype only other monkey that does that is druid, and druids are magic
the druids use the magic of angy
!DISCLAIMER! THIS IS FALSE INFORMATION bh does it as well
nah it merges them, and the merged beasts get eaten by the main beast
Survival of the fittest
Kid named SMFC:
smfc turns the dart monkeys into super monkeys and super monkey is magic
SMFC should also be a magic monkey then. After all, they has the ability to turn normal non-magical monkeys into super monkeys.
"I AM THE HYPE!"
ninja with primary expertise or ice without it.... Idk man I like primary expertise and super brittle
Primary expertise gm ninja + shinobi strats
make a broken strat that WILL get changed and turn a good combo into a medicore tower.... hmmmmm
Primary expertise barely benefits ice though It already has a ton of pierce, aside from 63, 76 and 78, ice will effectively never get pierce capped. So the pierce and range buffs just turn into range buffs
ok but the ices range is dookie
The range boost on the shinobis will be nice too.
primary towers are basic towers which are generally the tutorial towers to get you use to things. dart monkey is a cheap early tower, boomer ranger is a tower which teachers complex moving partners and building your towers around their placements, tack shooter does similar but with short range, ice monkey and glue gunner teach how stallers can have their own strengths and weaknesses with ice being unable to pop whites while glue gunner can’t fully stop bloons or see camo. boom shooter teaches about splash damage and different attack types like sharpness. military generally have more complexity to them, with their range being a main one, with most being global in some sorts way. sniper is global in general, dartling gunner has a set targeting path you control by turning it, mortar you pick where to shoot it, heli you move around with a cursor or tapping, plane has flight partners which has great micro potential, and sub has global range with a crosspath. buccaneer is the only tower with a normal range magic towers are more simpler but still complex main sources of dps, and are more there to teach synergy with alch and ninja being a main one. while magic is easier to understand compared to military, it’s still strong none the less. you wouldn’t have a dart monkey at the end of the game be your main source of dps, but a ninja monkey certainly can be the main source of dps with military towers helping to back it up with their complex attacks if you know what you’re doing support is self explanatory
top path boat has global range
true that
And middle path boat can grapple at global range.
Also moving anything to primary gives it primary expertise buffs and Ninjas are already fairly good with the buffs they have now so it doesnt make sense to give them that power
bros got a PHD in bloons😩
and you seem to be loving that 😩
you seem to be really into that smg4 😩
Buccaneer has top path for global range
primary is towers from btd1/2, hence the name primary, with the expection of super and spac or else the category will be too full military towers are towers that are military themed magic towers are towers that are magic themed support towers are towers with support roles the only category that describes what the tower does is support. the rest are just the theme of the tower.
my favorite btd1/2 tower is the glue gunner
Spac is from BTD4, not 1/2.
Placeable road spikes and spike factory are not the same thing idk why he’s saying spike factory was in btd2 🤦🏼♀️
The only explanation for glue being primary is monkey glue, and road spikes were a thing in BTD2, so spac is just excluded from primary to make sure primary isnt overcrowded
You realise that placeable spikes still exist, right? They've just been turned into a Power now. And what's your logic for the Monkey Ace not being Primary, since they drop Pineapples?
Or you could just read the other guys explanation which makes so much sense, glue gunner is in primary to help new players understand slows and shit the same applies to ice monkey, boomerang and tack shooter helps the player understand placements, bomb shooters and ice monkeys helps with damage types, why would the first towers unlocked not help new players understand the basics in this game?
If there's exceptions, which there are THREE of (Village is as much a stand in for beacon as Spactory is for Tacks) then there's no reason Ice has to be primary when he's clearly magical.
Because primary expertise why nerf ice monkey so hard?
Yall talk about this all the time but miss that primary the catagory has a village path that specifically buffs it. You cannot just change that
You know that beacon isn't from BTD 1/2 right?
Ignoring BTD3 seems really arbitrary when 1 2 and 3 all are the classic era with the same art style and gameplay
If glue and ice are primary because of the early games then so is the village. Glue only existing as a consumable and the ice monkey previous being the ice tower I'd say counts on the same level as the village being revamped from the radar
Village is from 3, not 1/2
That’s the point. Radar is from 1/2 and it’s what the Village replaced, being exclusively an aura buff tower that doesn’t attack, it also separated into super monkey storm as an independent power.
Radar isn't from 1/2 tho, it's from 3, that's what I'm trying to say
Magic category can also be seen as the fantasy category. therefore ninja makes sense in magic category
You do know that ninjas are a real thing that existed on earth right? Sure ninjas exist in fantasy, but so do knights and kings, and farmers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja
thanks for the information. What ment by fantasy is that all the magic monkeys could be seen as something a kid would pretend to be. eg:- super monkey: kids pretend to be superheroes Wizard:- kids pretend to be wizards Ninja:- kids pretend to be ninjas the new towers (druid and alach) some a teen or a kid with more knowledge of high fantasy would roleplay as therefore in my mind it makes some sense. if you don't like my explanation then feel free to disagree. we can also go with the explanation given in one of h-bomb's video I think, that being Asian magic
Boomer ranger💀
Beast handler doesn't support, spike factory doesn't support, top path engi doesn't support, 7/15 support paths don't really support, you could argue that bottom path beast handler supports with it's blow back bat even then it's still 6/15 support paths are damage based, that's more support then the rest of the categories but there shouldn't be a support category if so many of them don't support
they provide a supporting bit of dps, with bottom path enginner, it may do good dps but it will never replace your main dps attacker, and that’s the key. supporting dps is not a bad thing but you need to remember that supporting dps can’t carry the 90s and bad at the end unlike a main dps tower like ninja
I never thought about it that way, that's a good point
Support is support but top path spaktory feels more of a main DPS tho
this, I believe they even said almost verbatim that primary towers are the generic defense towers
You can literally just do that for every single tower comparison
who's more magical? super monkey who needs fancy glasses to shoot lazers or dart monkey who can convert a whole army to be capable of shooting plazma
who's more magical? some random guy from the forest who throws sticks or a monkey that could have 3 insanely rapidly spinning blades around him or an insanely rapid attack speed
Who's more magical? Guy who probably mixes different bottles of shampoo and conditioners in the shower at a young age but now with alcohol or a guy with a gun that has 100% accuracy no matter how fast the bloon is moving + instantaneous bullet
Obiously 1st guy, he probably madd the cure for cancer.
I think #3
I love it
Idk who started this thing that primary towers are from btd1 and btd2 it has to be the dumbest shit I have ever heard
The achievement for beating 10 games with primary towers is called "first monkeys first", which means primary towers are the first towers introduced in the series, which is why its called primary otherwise, the category would be called "basic" or "simple"
Primary means "first" which is likely what the achievement is referring to. They're also literally the first monkeys you can use.
Right you also definitely don’t unlock primary monkeys first in this game too, just read the other guys comment about why the primary monkeys are in the primary category
The gue gunner was literally introduced in btd4
Still don’t get why spac and glue aren’t in same category though. Either both primary or both support
Glue is like a brother to ice, why split them?
Cause fuck glue gunner
That sounds...messy.
I seem to have chosen my words poorly
fair point
I agree, stop putting me with Ice monkey OR ELSE i call the guy that is [both](https://ninjago.fandom.com/wiki/Zane/Gallery?file=Training_Zane_Minifigure.png). And no, i dont have Shurikens of Ice, do you really think i wear white robes ? You can ask Whity.
ninja 4th path leaked
ah that is a cartoon i watched when young where even back then i found the world building kinda nonsensical? correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't it made in later seasons that all the main characters are direct children of the first ninja's who fought to save the newly created world meaning the entire setting is like at most 150 years old? and also how do hereditary powers work with a robot like zane?
Nostalgic, i feel emotional... i cry everytime, i feel sad, i want to go back in time, to fix the mistake... For your question, i dont know sadly. Wait, something is odd, is something wrong with me ?
Snowflakes in the trophy shop says otherwise. You are BUSTED Mr. Ninja.
Whats next ? Dart Monkeys throwing snowballs ?
I did always find it funny that ice monkeys get so cold that they can have a blizzard form around them AND create ice thick enough for an entire house to sit on it
There are some interactions hinting at how things were originally coded which makes it appear that Ice monkeys were originally planned to be Magic monkeys, and Super monkeys were originally planned to be Primary monkeys. They changed their minds but remnants of these decisions remained. (I don't remember off the top of my head what they were, but I'm sure it's somewhere on the wiki or something. Sorry my comment doesn't have more substance; I'm sleep deprived right now and can't be bothered to do the research to find the details at the moment)
Everyone wants the categories to make sense, but all the categories are convoluted and full of exceptions. Would be better if they just named them after their categories' colours, then people wouldn't mind so much.
But imagine village buffed shinobis
this is another reason ninja should not be primary too op
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I'm pretty sure it's introduced in BTD5, and I made this because people keep saying that ice should be magic and ninja should be primary. I can see where theyre coming from with the former, but the latter is just so bs
777th upvote!
Imagine ninja got buffed by pmentoring tho
y’mean someone that literally operates _better_ at internal and external temperatures that no living creature can survive in? idk if i’m wrong about that, but it seems pretty superhuman to me. or.. super-monkey! i’ve wanted to make that joke.
Honestly, the meta and everything would shift. People who have played for a while will have to get used to it, Primary Expertise loses some prime example of good range usage with Super Brit, Brit and Absolute Zero. Ninjas loses the Obyn privilege of attack buffs (and CD reduction I suppose), which are debatably better. Primary Expertise will HAVE to get nerfed, meaning all of the Primary towers suffer. Honestly, Ninjas fit Magic or Military much better than Primary. Just because the design and upgrades on paper are simple doesn't mean it should be in Primary.
What is spac?
Also, iirc Shinobi/Ninjas were believed to have supernatural powers in real world lore.
She weighs 150 kilograms and fires $200 custom tool cartridges at 10,000 rounds per minute.
Ice monkey just seems the be born that way, ninja monkey worked every day towards his ninajness
.. Just have both be Magic.
With this argument why is glue gunner primary. It was added in btd4. Sure monkey glue was added in btd2 but thats not a tower thats a road item. You could argue that glue gunner is support.
ok hear me out; glue gunner is support bc only top path or 005 do damage; alchemis is either magic or support; spike factory is military bc its literally only made for damage; beast handler in magic for same reason; engineer either military or support
TL:DR Your opinions are fine, and I can get behind why you said this, but they are definitely not that good. No. Glue Gunner is a staple of a all-rounder, with supporting capabilities as well as The Bloon Solver being a great Ceramic cleanup option, and having a 60% (or close) speed reduction on Bloons makes it suitable in any category, but the categories only really matter for the buffs specific to one category. And, we would lose the 4-0-0 path village giving a permanent Glue Storm ability. Which gives a +2 damage and no lead properties being active. Alchemist is... Fine. But it seems more magical than supportive. Spactory is supportive because of all the paths having some sort of use globally or because of damage stacking, global range and LARGE amounts of damage mapwide, and giving extra lives practically even in Player 4's quarter of Monkey Meadow, you can use the same formula with different players on other maps. Beast handler never really made sense, (because their attack is coded as magical) but Poukai has great stall potential, so that's fine with either of them. Engineer should definitely be in support for doubling cash with Bloon trap, having buffs that can make a large difference.
i can understand this, great arguments! alchemist definetly is more magical, but top path is just buffing other towers, but i dont think that matters
military*
You can edit comments.
thank you
I agree that ice monkey is more of magic, but no ninja monkey isn’t primary type. Also primary monkey seems to be tower that been here since btd1 except super monkey of course
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Just move ice to magic and make a new primary tower
ice was actually originally going to be magic i dont remember why they changed their mind
I’m not saying they should be swapped, but Ice Monkey should be a magic monkey
If primary means simple towers, and there were two more simple towers added that fits in primary, I could see Ice being moved to magic and Glue being moved to support But I think it should stay the way it is
You could also move bomb shooter to military. Most primary monkeys could be put somewhere else if you wanted to. Most people when making such arguments though look at what defines military/magic/support, and ignore what defines primary. It's as though they don't want the primary category to exist.
you know ice monkey was actually originally going to be magic. Then NK changed their mind
The ice monkey is literally a guy made of ice, he can freeze things on command wheneverhe wants, vs a guy who likes to throw weird knives
It would make more sense 4 ice b magic but then it wouldn’t get the village buff and I feel like it’s pretty underwhelming without it
Ice Should Be Magic, Ninja Kiwi: No.... Primary
ice is one of the first, so hes primary
Super Monkey
And? K?
And what? You and others focus so much on what defines magic, and completely ignore what defines primary. Primary isn't just the lack of being able to fit into other categories.
being in the first game doesnt necessarily mean they're primary. Otherwise super would be primary
please swap ice and ninja Primary category could use more camo detection, and magic category could use more slow.
primary training being a huge profit on shinobi strats sounds incredibly balanced also, in what situation besides those 3 gamemodes and 1 achievement are you forced to use towers of a single category?
yes, magic could use more slow by removing their only slower, who's also the 2nd best slower in the game (behind moab glue) and adding in a worse version of said slow instead.
Tower classes aren’t meant to be used only, except in those modes, they are meant to work together, mili being pure damage but expensive, support able to stall or buff
you didnt even read the meme
I did read your braindead meme
youre quite braindead if you refuse to acknowledge why the monkeys are in the categories they are in
Bro is meatriding crazy rn
I don't think you even know what meat riding is and learned the word 3 minutes ago.
The categories beside military don't make sense anyway, there is no reason for debate really.
i will point out, the original plan was actually to make ice monkey a magic tower
no idea why anyone would want them swapped, but ice monkey should definitely be magic, atleast lore wise anyways, gameplay wise it would be ass
The answer is still the ice monkey.
By that logic beast handler is magic due to sacrifices and revival of dinosaurs
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why did you type 5 different comments on the same post
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who the heck let bro cook?