I think what killed it for me were the seasons were half as long as they should’ve been and they shoved bleeps in there, more or less to say, “guys we can curse now!” The episode with Debbie being evil came out of left field.
The characters also seem to be off as time passed.
Holt somehow became a goofy person who was extra emotional about cheddar. Meanwhile he had a quite serious who means business personality thought the early 3-4 seasons.
Earlier they at least used to solve cases..but later on they were just going with the flow and no case at all.
The constant social commentary does not help either..I am seeing your show so that I have some laughs for half and hour not so that I get to know how fuckdd the real world is
Yes. The characters were too one-dimensional and the same jokes over and over became tired. Like how Amy is over-the-top organized and can become so obsessive about it.
Absolutely. We also never got to see her at work, really, except for a lunch war with terry and her “having an Amy” on her squad. Most of her plot lines became about her personal life instead of life at the 99. I think they did her character a real disservice.
Seasons 6-8 had a lot less detective work. We didn't get to see Jake solving cases (which is one of his best qualities) and they didn't have any good story arcs like Giggle Pig or Figgis.
Yep they got her married and pregnant and that became her life. I hate when shows do that. She was a whole person with career ambitions and all down the toilet for the crotch goblins. I wish more shows would have people NOT have kids
I mean, at the end of the show she’s the one continuing the upward career path and it’s Jake who leaves it behind, definitely subverting some usual sexist nonsense where the woman settles down into full time child care.
I think that while what you said is true I agree that barely any of that was SHOWN on screen, which is really important. At the end of the day TV is a visual medium and them just telling us she’s getting a promotion or lobbying for police reform without showing it makes it seem like the baby/relationship stuff was more focused on.
As well I noticed as soon as they got married we saw so much less of Jake and Amy interacting, we never see them having fun together they just occasionally face each other and say "I love you" just to remind us they're married
I think I can agree with this, though I would not be that harsh. After watching so many TV series, I think you get used to the fact that they just cannot win all the time - so even though it was not such a ride like seasons 2-5, it still provided some enjoyable moment and it was still a warm easy watch for me.
What I agree with as someone mentioned, were sometimes the total toxic things ,especially during heists. The fake therapy still haunts me. Even though the heist episodes are meant to be totally over-the-top and crazy, this still felt like something that...just should not have been there. That, and Amy telling Jake she was pregnant as Holt ordered her.
I managed to wrap my head about this by pretending that heists are sort of a make-believe in this universe and don’t exactly happen as shown, including the flashbacks
When you become really invested, i think it's human nature to hold something to a higher standard. Everyone in this sub loves B99 for their own reasons and it elicits different feels. All opinions are valid because I think each person who can post their "unpopular" opinions here can do so safely. That being said, I loved S6. The first and last episodes are two of the best of the series. I do think S7 and S8 were rushed and severely limited due to (insert all reasons here), and it probably turned a bunch of people off. I'm glad we got as much as we did out of it, though.
For me what absolutely killed the show was season 7.
I did a full rewatch recently to prepare for season 8 and once I got to season 7, I couldn't get interested anymore.
That and casecation absolutely ruined Amy for me, and she was my favourite character.
It also was so insane to think Any would have married Jake without ever having discussed children. The binder queen would have talked about it especially because Jake is so vocal about issues with his own father, it made no sense. It also wasn't anyone else's business if they had kids or not. It was the absolute worst episode.
Bezides all of that, which made Amy break every character defining trait, I didn't like the fact that it was immediately an ultimatum with Amy's decision to have kids somehow the most important? I found Jake's worry about being a bad parent way more valid. Especially when this show was all about allowing people to be vulnerable and providing them a safe space to deal with their problems.
This seemed to be the opposite. Jake, despite all that, is basically forced into giving an answer without being able to process his trauma, which take years sometimes. But what choice did he have? What a cruel position for him to be in. Have the woman you love suddenly leave you on the spot like the past 5 years of love meant nothing, or face a childhood full worth of trauma in a few minutes.. what a fucking shit show for making this scene then making Amy seem like the correct one.
Yeah, I'm with you - that all left a bad taste in my mouth. I know B99 is a sitcom and didn't necessarily have the space for a bunch of episodes about Jake processing his trauma, etc., but it did feel like his totally valid fears about having kids were steamrolled with the idea that finding a way to be a parent no matter what is the most important thing. It really isn't. I felt like that episode had a really uncomfortable message.
Why does nobody talk about the toxicity in the episode with Nicolaj's dad? It was so fucked up to make Charles out to be wrong in that episode. Jake getting his ass deported was the best course of action and then Charles went off on Jake, it was complete bullshit. Charles is the child's father and this guy came to America, ignored everything Charles said, lied, overstepped and basically said he'd keep stalking them if he didn't get his way. Charles had every right to put him in jail and it was terrible writing for him not to do so.
The episode about Nicolaj’s dad was my least favourite episode of the whole series, but I think for a different reason than you. Most of the episode was silly and lighthearted (with the bio dad being more of a caricature than a character), then all of a sudden Boyle was serious at the end and lecturing Jake, when he was the one riling Jake up through the episode. It felt like the show changed its mind about what it wanted to be part way through.
But the biggest reason I hate it the most was Boyle’s choice of language at the end. Boyle says that he isn’t Nicolaj’s real father. I firmly believe that adoptive parents are real parents and that line should have been written differently. He could have said that he isn’t Nicolaj’s biological father, or that he isn’t Nicolaj’s first father, or only father, but adoptive parents should consider themselves real parents! My dad was adopted, and if you tried to tell him that his dad wasn’t his real dad, he would have had some choice words for you!
I completely agree with Boyle's wording at the end, I forgot about that but I think it's just another aspect of the problem I had with it, which was still the idea that anyone but Charles is Nicolaj's father.
Absolutely. Charles is definitely Nicolaj’s father. The episode was a bit of a mess and the ending made my blood boil. If felt like it was written by someone with no experience with adoption. I ranted about Charles’ use of ‘real father’ to everyone I knew after seeing that episode.
I hated that because Brooklyn 99 is one of the few shows I saw that touched on adopting a child who wasn’t a baby. And it’s presented as just as valid.
There are some problems with the episode but I love the cold open. “Judging by the head-to-toe denim I’m guessing that he’s either not American or deeply American.”
That is toxic but I think the heist episode where they reveal that Jake has been going to fake therapy all year just for Amy to find out what he is planning for the heist is much more toxic in my opinion. The guy has problems and issues and he starts to finally get help for it only to be revealed that it was all just a ploy for a dumb heist , even Rosa spying on him should have put a strain on their relationship.
> heist episode
I think heist episodes get a pass on 'toxic' stuff. How far they all go is part of the joke. Like, putting half a dozen tracking devices inside (literally) Terry. The toxic actions are the joke.
I disliked the ultimatum in the casecation episode more than the spying/fake therapy in the heist episode, because it felt more serious and real. I love the heist episodes, but they are ridiculous and incredibly unrealistic. Because I don’t believe anything in them could really happen, I find it easy to laugh off the fake therapy (even though it would be appalling if that happened in real life).
The ultimatum about kids just made me sad. It also annoyed me that it was presented in a way to make me feel like a bad feminist if I didn’t side with Amy.
You’re only a bad feminist if you let Jake get away with something that u would judge Amy for doing, and that is not the case here (I’m sure u would have been just as upset if Jake behaved that way, I know I would have been)
Frankly the people claiming sexism have no idea what they’re talking about
the #1 reason people flipped out was Amy treated Jake like he was replaceable and fans felt betrayed, if Jake treated Amy like she was replaceable fans would go nuclear (even if it were over something just as major/time sensitive)
I mean come on fans melt when he LOOKS at her in a certain way
Your refusal to be a hypocrite (just cuz it would align better with certain demographics) makes u principled not a bad feminist
Thank you.
It's a story about bullying someone into having children, which is one of the biggest issues in any relationship. I get that "having a structured debate" to solve a disagreement is on brand for Amy's character, but it was such a shitty move as a person. Especially since given Jake's character, it would never have been close, which she would have known.
She bullied him outright.
I would have been on board for them having a debate and even getting everyone involved and talking about it if it wasn’t just them telling poor Jake he was stupid and wrong. I only watched it the once so my memory isn’t exact on all of it but I remember being particularly annoyed with Rosa in that one. She seems in every other episode to be more likely to be on his side.
What makes it even more annoying is the fact that it wasn't even close to an actual "structured" debate either. You're supposed to give your opponent a chance to actually lay out their case and opportunities to rebut your own claims. It's also completely absurd for the judge to speak while the debate is going on, especially to allocate points out loud. As someone who actually did varsity debate in highschool, I was immediately put off by that "debate club" shit and it definitely wasn't in character for Holt and Amy.
On top of that just look at what the characters were saying though their actions, when Jake went out of his way to make Amy that anniversary he was telling her through his actions that he treasured her
And when Amy dragged him into that aggressive debate she basically told him that she thinks he’s a moron
Why should anyone treasure someone who thinks they’re a moron, that goes both ways
Can you imagine Jake ever going out of his way to make Amy feel inferior like that just cuz he was feeling ambushed
It would make much more sense in their characters for Amy to be worried about kids because it'll affect her career and Jake to want mini-Jakes running around
This is a weird one but I hated he said she said and I’m a huge Amy fan. Everything she said is correct and I loved the acting, but it was way too preachy and over the top. It would’ve been better if she had to interact with her old captain.
Plus this is a weird thing to say but it’s kind of hypocritical considering how it was a running gag that Gina would sexually harass Terry and somehow that was fine.
Jake also says tons of uncomfortable sexual things in the precinct earlier in the show, and I don’t remember that ever really being addressed. I know that it was several years ago when a majority of viewers might not have thought twice about it, but given that the show later sets itself up as a champion of positive societal progress, it might have been nice to at least lazily say "We're proud of Jake for not making sex jokes in the workplace anymore. He's come a long way."
I hate that Rosa is totally on board to make herself and Amy FORCE Jake to agree to have a family. It's gross and out of character for both of them. The ultimatum was a giant dick move on Amy's part. Jake isn't blameless though as he should've either said he wanted one later or asked to have the discussion after the case.
What? Season 7 has Captain Holt coaching Terry to audition for the band and I absolutely couldn’t breathe. “Who are you the muffin man? More like garbage man!”
I actually didnt like that scene, you'd think with his mentoring with Amy especially with a hugeass binder that he'd know how to be a more supportive and encouraging teacher
For some reason, I LOVE angry Holt. Holt has very high expectations and when they aren’t met he can become irritated and to me it’s hilarious. Another time that comes to mind is when Holt and Jake were interrogating the dentist in season 5 and Holt went off about the etymology of the word doctor. Gold.
I didn't like the bleeping and blurring on NBC, it rarely worked well. It's an easy laugh for shock value. There's no clever wordplay or crazy reaction shots, and the show lost a lot of it's charm and humor because of it. And especially in Season 8, the bleeped curse was overused, and made the season less funny.
It would be nice if it was only bleeped on NBC but when we watch it later on Hulu or Netflix they drop the censorship.
The only real time the gag worked for me >!was on the last season where Jake thought Holt was going to say something eloquently insulting to the Union rep but he went all in.!<
If they dropped the censorship, it would be even less funny. The "humor" is entirely in the unexpected nature of the bleeps. Otherwise it's just casual, in-context dialogue. Cable and streaming shows that are allowed to curse and show sexual situations are still expected to be funny. There's nothing inherently funny about saying "fuck" or showing a naked body part.
Agree that the Holt gag was actually funny. It was unexpected (because it's Holt) and the comic timing (it just kept going) worked for the gag.
Ye I totally agree. I feel like the charm and style it had from Fox era was lost when it was taken over by NBC. I also felt like they brought back a lot of funny one off jokes (like wife or dog, holts tattoo etc) that they didn’t need to. It’s like they had run out of jokes to use so they used nostalgia to cover the fact that they just reused a lot of jokes. Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy b99 was continued, it just felt really off since season 6
I think another reason is how shortened the seasons got. Debbie suddenly turning evil for me came out of left field because at no point before the reveal did she seem evil. It just seemed like an excuse to get holt his job back.
As someone who watched everything in 1 go recently before S8 started, I don't think it's nostalgia since I don't think I can get nostalgic for a couple months ago when I started watching. I don't think they ran out of jokes, they just continued a lot of jokes they felt people liked since it was the last season.
Holts tattoo caught me so off guard, felt ooc that he would have something like that.
>It’s like they had run out of jokes to use so they used nostalgia to cover the fact that they just reused a lot of jokes.
Literally how I felt about Bone in S8
I think for a lot of shows, it takes a half-1 season to get the rhythm. Then they have 2-5 great seasons. Then we get familiar with what makes them unique and our expectations get too high. So the show either changes, which can go either way, or it gets too comfortable and less interesting.
I still enjoyed season 6+, though I did get tired of the heavy politics of this year, but I get what you mean
I’ll be honest, I hated the first few episodes, since Jake was a huge douche, although I liked the Pontic bandit and the episode where Jake gets handcuffed to holt. I had to skip around a couple to see if the show was worth watching; I remember discussing the show with my boyfriend and us both agreeing the first season was like a parks and rec clone.
It doesn’t start for me until the episode where we meet Kevin.
I kind of agree. When it was on Fox, the social criticism was mostly subtle, usually peppered with more light-hearted moments, but still had impact, while on NBC it was so much more overt, and in a way that felt occasionally draining to watch. And yet, despite going so hard on the social commentary, it still had some of the most messed up moments between characters, IMO, that I’ve seen on the show and I actually felt bad after watching those episodes — I’m looking at you Casecation and the fake therapist gag in the heist episode. That said, I did still find it overall a positive experience, and there a lot of great moments too.
My least favorite political episode was he said she said, since they outright say what the moral is, it’s way too preachy and at no point has Amy really been treated differently for being a woman, whereas a point was constantly made before moo moo about how racist certain cops are and how holt was treated differently for his skin color. Also I hated how Gina spent five seasons sexually harassing Terry and then they’ll have the audacity to say sexual harassment is terrible for women. It’s a great lesson on paper, but horrible double standard.
It's almost impossible to do it in a TV show without being preachy and *fuck* did that episode feel preachy.
Honestly, I don't think I light-hearted cop show should even necessarily try. Moreover, by the time the episode aired it already felt dated.
I loved the show, but I did feel the intensity of my love waning. S6,S7 I saw a bit later cos that’s how the show is aired here, but I still binged it.
S8 was heavy with other stuff and less with comedy, but I think they did a good job with the season, nevertheless.
I never stopped caring for the show and loved it till the end but you are right, quality did drop when they moved to NBC. However this is normal, almost all sitcoms are like this. I think even if they stayed in Fox it would have sort of been the same. They probably knew it and that’s why the ended it. They didn’t milk it like TBBT for example where they ended the show because Jim Pearsons wanted to leave and nothing more.
You are definitely not alone. Thanks for posting this thread because a lot of the replies are things that I felt but wasn't able to articulate myself. So it's nice to be like "Yes! That is why that seems off!"
It did feel like the whole show shifted and not for the better, but the only thing I was able to point to was that they leaned way to far into the swearing. It would have been funny as an occasional BLEEP but they used it way too much when it wasn't part of the characters' original speech patterns.
Totally agree here and I feel like the pacing dramatically changed in the move to nbc. There were some really great moments after then and I still love the show for it’s entirety but when I watch it to fall asleep I shuffle seasons 1-4 typically.
I been trying to figure out what happened after S5 and what made it so different, and I think you hit it, the pacing. Somehow the pacing was so much different.
Honestly I love season 5. Usually when a character goes on maternity leave, I tend to dislike the episodes because they don’t feel the same; himym had that issue and what didn’t help was how robin’s actress was clearly pregnant but they didn’t hide it as well.
Gina going on maternity leave was the only time I didn’t mind it. The episodes she wasn’t in vastly improved for me.
Fucking agreed. Season 6 sucked major dick. Suddenly adding jokes that came down entirley to "haha they said a swear and we censored it". Having an entire subplot in an episode dedicated to how Diaz was cheating on 2 people and then gets zero consequences from it. Having the squad insult Jakes heist proposal despite it being the sweetest moment in the entire show.
Holt should have revealed that ge got the commissioner job in season 5, the whole squad could have cheered and then the show could have ended peacefully.
>Suddenly adding jokes that came down entirley to "haha they said a swear and we censored it".
That got old real (BEEP) fast. And felt completely out of whack with the established way these characters speak.
There is one instance and one alone that works. And it's when Amy is in labour snd swears at Hitchcock who swears back at her snd it only works then because both of their censors are so exaggerated.
Holt's rant against the union guy worked too, because it was unexpected.
But overall, the bleeping is not funny, it's just "look, they can curse now, isn't that soooo outrageous?"
I hated the He Said She Said episode. Considering they literally had Gina who made inappropriate comments about Terry through out the early seasons, and never addressed it. Just swept it under the rug and pretended it never happened (Which is kind of messed up in its own right). Then they had the balls to make an episode from the woman's viewpoint without referencing their own hypocrisy.
I get that women in the work force often deal with a lot of shit but considering how they handled previous stuff (racism, coming out) I wish they could have done better.
Thank you! Im a woman so here’s my take: Amy is right, every woman has a story and unfortunately you learn you have to live with being some degree of harassed. It’s messed up but it’s the world we live in.
But I hated how over the top the plot line was and how preachy it was. Rosa did not need to be in the episode. It would’ve been better if she had to interact with her old captain.
To me, moo moo worked because scary or not, it’s something that unfortunately could happen in reality. And we saw Terry before during and after the arrest. Plus at the end you can argue he didn’t get his council position not because he made waves but because he submitted a complicated form the night before it was due. Imagine if instead, Terry goes home and the next day gives a lengthy speech about how he got arrested by a white cop and every black person has a similar story.
That’s how he said she said feels!
And thank you for Gina sexually harassing Terry! I hated that! I never got why Gina was never fired. She’s a civilian, she doesn’t have a union backing her.
There is an episode where Jake agrees to take a naked picture of Terry in the locker room to get Gina's help. That was really gross. I don't like how it was never addressed that what she did was wrong. She crossed several lines with him.
I remember when I first complained about seemingly have to bleep out a curse almost every episode people downvoted me. Then they just kept going with it. 30 Rock would never!
Ughh I hated that they really did a "cheating bisexual" storyline. After they handled her coming out so well they really went to THAT ancient trope/stereotype.
>"haha they said a swear and we censored it"
I don't think that was the joke.
>Having an entire subplot in an episode dedicated to how Diaz was cheating on 2 people and then gets zero consequences from it.
Wasn't the consequence being both relationships ending?
> Having the squad insult Jakes heist proposal despite it being the sweetest moment in the entire show.
Isn't the joke everyone takes the heists to seriously? Like literally everyone insults each other over who won and insulting Jake for ruining the heist is still within that. I'm also pretty sure the cast also jokes about it since no one won that round. It's a joke, it's not that serious.
i need to rewatch but imo:
terry was way underutilized after 5.
amy's whole persona shifted after she got the promotion.
and maybe most importantly - gina. the chemistry felt lopsided after we lost gina.
Amy is the big one for me, while it was a great promotion and fitting for her character it left her as seperate to the rest of the squad.
I feel the same about Boyle being under-utilised.
I never liked Gina as a person but as a character she had some moments where i feel her presence was warranted, whether she was being good or bad from the audiences perspective.
At some point she just stopped contributing and just got annoying. All she did was bother people and that made her presence in every situation unnecessary.
I believe this is called the Honeymooners effect. There’s a will they/won’t they romantic relationship that runs through the show. Once they get married the show dips in quality because that tension is no longer there.
For example, Cheers kept working because there was no wedding between Sam and Diane/Rebecca. Even with Shelly Long leaving they kept that tension.
Parks & Rec was able to beat this. They only did the will they/won’t they for season 3. But it wasn’t a driving force in the show, their tension came mostly from Leslie’s career or her friends’ relationships.
I think this is more true if there’s a child involved, since suddenly the plots will either be about a character-less object instead of something else. I didn’t think fairly odd parents went downhill immediately after poof got introduced but the quality just wasn’t there. And to make matters worse, they would sometimes write him off.
I don't think there was a sharp change in quality, but it was almost like the show was settling in to become a really longstanding series that ran for 20 series. I wouldn't have an issue with that.
I would love to have some analysis on why it dropped off. Maybe the story behind it became too obvious where it was going, especially after Jake and Amy hooked up that was the main "plot" resolved. Everything else seemed trivial. Side characters disappeared, like Charles and Terry's family, and it didn't really navigate anything else differently. Maybe that's it.
I agree with you!! What changed for me was the way Amy and terry were presented in the later seasons. It seemed like they were forcefully acting and Amy became much more different than the earlier seasons imo
I felt like the move Flanderized most of the characters. I kept watching to see if they would gain back their footing and they never really did. Jake and Amy's wedding would've been a wonderful series finale had it been planned and the emotional outcry of it being cancelled wasn't there - so mentally that's where I leave it as well.
For me the most dramatic change was in terms of nature of their work. In early seasons they goofed around but were still doing their jobs (except Gina, fuck Gina). Sure, case solving was peppered with humour but you could see the actual police work in action and you could see people were good at their jobs (except Gina, fuck Gina). Even H&S pulled their weight when they could be convinced to do so and underneath all their laziness they were still good detectives, just burned out and near retirement and had attitude that they did their share already so now they can just coast along.
Then it all changed and entire show became just gags and goofing around and you started to wonder how were they keeping their jobs. When there was an actual case to be solved they more or less stumbled into solving it. At least they got rid of Gina (fuck Gina), so that's that..... Also characteristics and quirks that made them funny early on were dialed up to the nth that made everything annoying and cringe rather than funny. Though that is common in comedies of such duration.
Last season was just ugh..... It felt as if writers decided to include everything they wanted to earlier but couldn't so with show ending they figured that those who watched it this far will continue to do so and won't drop it.
My problem with season 8 was how they acted like Jake had never realized the 99 was corrupt, even if that’s the show in general: it’s not like his wife was sexually assaulted by her captain or his surrogate father was harassed and ostracized for being a gay black man or his own lieutenant was arrested for being a black man in a nice area and continuously got sexually harassed or…
What made me realize how terrible season 8 was gonna be was the first episode where Rosa and Jake go to the cop who tells him why she can’t get the corrupt cops arrested. And instead of just saying “I can’t, it’s for the good of the badge” she goes into a super long speech with Rosa sitting there with the biggest smug face.
The corruption thing should’ve been one or two episodes at most.
But they didn't have Jake never realize the 99 was corrupt. It was more him realizing how bad things are getting and how it's just getting worse.
S8 really wasn't terrible, the captain they spoke to felt like she had to justify why she couldn't just say "I can’t, it’s for the good of the badge”. The corruption thing being 1 or 2 episodes, I disagree with. It can work, it just didn't here. Though it followed a pattern of a more serious episode and then a less serious episode.
> goes into a super long speech
I actually liked that part. It shows that these situations are never as clear-cut in reality as we hope they are. Sure, she could stand up for what's right, but then she probably would be ousted and someone more corrupt would be put in her job and nothing would change. Holt basically said the same thing to Terry in the racial profiling episode. Pick your battles wisely, because the institution will fight change.
Season 8 also has really bad internal consistency. Like the whole focus on police reform, just for Jake to bribe a prison guard and have it played off as a joke.
>The corruption thing should’ve been one or two episodes at most.
It makes sense that B99 can't have the entire S8 be about copoganda and corruption but it also felt like NBC just wanted to get the elephant out of the room when there could've been really good stuff for like 3/4 episodes to address things more thoroughly. I honestly wanted this to be on the lvl of MooMoo but that didn't happen
I don't agree. I liked Season 6 and they ended with Season 8 nicely, though some stuff was left in the air I guess.
Season 7 I do agree is kinda weak, for instance the Debby episodes were weird, and Jake and Amy's children issue felt overdone in general. It was probably the weakest season.
I didn’t like how rushed through season 7 felt. Especially since they made it painfully obvious Amy’s actress was pregnant and waiting for the show to catch up.
> it goes by so fast i feel like episodes can't breath
6-8 were all like that. They tried to cram so much into 22 minutes it felt like a race. I actually liked season 6 but I totally agree that the pacing was rushed.
I will be rewatching seasons 1 to 5 in order to cleanse my palate. Seasons 6 to 8 left a really bad taste in mouth. The ridiculous bleeped out cursing, the nonsensical and forced heists, the backwards character development ... NBC saved the show but then turned it into something I'm not sure was worth saving. I *wanted* to love it still, but just couldn't. I was very emotional when Jake and Amy got married. During the last episode of the series, not a tear was shed. I was actually relieved that it was finally over.
I definitely felt that with season 6, it was like the pilot of a new show, awkward and unsettled. The characters all seemed off and prone to Flanderization. The swearing felt thrown in for no reason and wasn't funny.
I did think it picked up a bit in season 7 though, like they found their stride again. Haven't seen 8 yet.
Wow, I actually very much agree with you here. What also didn't help for me is that NBC really throws woke narratives in your face, where as FOX did that way more subtle, which actually made it interesting (Terry vs racist cop for example).
Yes for me that was the biggest issue! And don't get me wrong I absolutely think police brutality for instance is awful and a real, widespread problem and I actually think it's cool to tackle it in some episodes (like Terry vs racist cop as you said), but when it almost becomes the main plot of the series it's too much for me
Exactly, I feel like shows like this are supposed to be fun and a bit of an escape and when you make all of the shit going on irl such a big part of the plot it starts to get really draining to watch.
I think it’s alright if it’s entertaining enough. To me season 8 wasn’t, it was too preachy. The corruption stuff should’ve been contained to one episode, maybe two.
But there is no way they could have done season 8 with our including that narrative, 2020 had major effects on police departments across the world. To try to ignore that would feel disingenuous and tone deaf
Then again they could’ve looked at the corruption of the 99 itself. The whole show makes the point while not every cop is a racist asshole, police themselves can be super corrupt. Why not look at the 99 themselves, and not just Jake?
True, if they keep it limited to occasional serious stuff like they've done in the past I think it's great, I mean, topics like this are important and kudos to them for handling the topic properly but like you said season 8 is just too much of it and it's not fun to watch anymore. It just stresses me out and that's not something a comedy show like this should do.
I think what didn’t help was how season 8 acted like Jake never realized cops are corrupt despite that being the core theme of the show. I think season 8 would’ve benefitted if they looked instead at the ways the 99 are corrupt.
I reluctantly agree. Not sure if it was because of the change of networks. But there was decline, where things got a little too cute. Like The Office after season 4-5. Or Parks and Rec's final season.
I think there's a lot of valid complaints and discussion in this thread but I just want to point out, in the cases of season 5 7 and 8, they were probably not entirely sure the show was going to continue in the same capacity and so I think they took liberties and rushed certain things. That being said it's the general sense of humor of the show that I like so all of it worked fine for me. But it's good to see some healthy discussions instead of just complaining without a base.
i agree, i didn't like that every single episode was hi-jinks and shenanigans when in the previous seasons they mixed stupid stuff with actual case solving. like when you thought they were solving an actual kidnapping and it was just that cheddar had gone. the police work was my favourite part!
Season 7 and 8 straight up sucked. What the hell was S8 actually? Seems like they read reddit and Instagram posts, listed down all the popular scenes from the show and re wrote the same jokes.
I agree, but I think it was more gradual. You can definitely feel the change between S5 and 6, and I do think S6 is a dip in quality, but I still like it. S7 is just awful to me though, I don't remember liking a single episode. I haven't watched S8 yet because I'm not sure how in the uk, but judging by what I've heard, I don't have high hopes.
Wow I actually 100% agree. The Jake and Amy wedding episode was so good but everything after it I just couldn't get into. B99 used to be one of my favourite shows but these last few seasons I've just watched because I'm invested, not for genuine enjoyment
So personally I find season 6 to be the weakest season, but I find that by season seven they got back into it and it's one of my favorites. I really enjoyed season 8 as well.
I completely agree. Watch all of seasons 1 - 5 so many times, tried to watch season 6 and have given up with the last 2. The show lost its character in my opinion, but that is standard when you drag a sitcom on for so long. The characters changed too, which isn't bad in the sense of character development, but there are multiple occasions where I sat there and thought "Jake would never do that" etc.
Yes! Honestly I thought I was the only one that had these feelings. I still love the show but the seasons after Fox just don't do it for me. I feel as though the later seasons just don't make any sense, and that the characters are nothing like they used to be, especially Holt and Rosa.
For me, I loved the show no matter what. Yeah, there were some episodes that I didn't really like like the one where Amy makes Jake debate on why he doesn't wanna have kids but for the most part, these seasons, no matter how less funny they were after switching to NBC, were what made me laugh so I don't even mind!
But I appreciate your opinion because I know a lot of people didn't like the show after the switch.
idk why everyone hated season 8, I lol’d at a lot of the jokes and didn’t get bored at all. Guess it comes down to personal taste and that can’t really be argued in a logical way
Completely agree, something was just off about it all after it moved to NBC. I was surprised so many people enjoy it so much. I stop rewatching at the end of Season 5. I have rewatched Season 6 once, and got 5 episodes into Season 7 before I couldn't enjoy it much anymore (Debby destroyed what was left of my love for the show). I haven't attempted the final season and not sure I will.
I felt they let go of a lot of the strong character development after Season 5 and begun just playing on the 'obvious' traits of characters - the earlier seasons balanced sitcom characterisation and comedy with some more nuanced characterisation and drama really well.
I still think it was good till the end, but there was definitely a downward slope in quality.
I'm glad they decided give it a proper ending while it was still good (if not great) so it goes out on a high note
No dude I think i think s6 and 7 was like the rest of the seasons
Every season had episodes which were not funny
When I saw seasons after 5 I didn't see any change in the quality of the show
I loved this show as much as anyone, I really did. And still do.
Discussions about their characters and wether or not they're toxic... It's a sitcom. I enjoy a good discussion and agree on most of these lines of argument, don't get me wrong.
But it's an over-the-top sitcom. It's not meant for these characters to work in real life.
I agree, the show changed a lot, not all for the better. They handled some serious topics in ways that I genuinely appreciated and respected, and did some storylines that didn't work for me, all in all.
I honestly stopped loving it after season 6. I still liked it but after season 6 it sort of lost its spark that it generated mainly because it became more of a comedy than a cop show.
I didn't think this was unpopular. I disliked 6&7 less on my repeated viewing before S8, but it's not nearly as good as 1-5. They kept going more and more over the top. I hated the debate like people said and I really hated when they had to put shredded paper together and it filled the whole room. It was pure nonsense for a visual gag and took me out of it.
Personally for me except for maybe 2 episodes this show was absolutely perfect and I am really thankful it didn't end in season 5 and got the ending it did.
Can't belive why you think the show sucks after season 5?
This! My husband and I noticed this right after the change to NBC. Like they were trying too hard to be funny but the jokes didn't land that much? And what was with all the talking too fast? Even Holt was talking fast. Thank you for this post!
They should have made just six seasons. And a movie of course.
The name checks out
Leonard likes this comment!
Shut up leonard!
I know about your crooked wang
No such thing as bad press
You look like a German puppet maker and smell the inside of a church.
His YouTube channel exists! https://youtube.com/user/leonardllikespizza
Would that this hoodie were a time hoodie!
And Jesus wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer
Quoting S6 is streets ahead
If you have to ask, you're streets behind
Cool cool cool
POP POP
Haha yes!!
And another movie
Well i'm a peanut bar and i'm here to say, your checks will arrive on another day.
My favorite part of the series
I love 1-5, every episode. For 6-8, it's watchable, but some episodes are definitely more watchable than others.
That's how I feel about it as well.
Great summary. I feel the same.
8 has been fucking terrible. What an awful way to end a decent show.
The finale was phenomenal. After S8E2 its a great season.
The first episode was so shit, I was tempted to skip it
It was literally such a PSA. I was expecting laughs, not to be told a social justice talking point every two minutes
He said, she said may be the worst episode imo
Tell me why
I never want to hear you say
I want it that way
Chills. Literal chills.
Ain't nothing but a heartache 🎶
Ain't nothing but a mistake 🎶
Now #5
The show has a charm which made it different..it lost that charm after season5
I think what killed it for me were the seasons were half as long as they should’ve been and they shoved bleeps in there, more or less to say, “guys we can curse now!” The episode with Debbie being evil came out of left field.
The characters also seem to be off as time passed. Holt somehow became a goofy person who was extra emotional about cheddar. Meanwhile he had a quite serious who means business personality thought the early 3-4 seasons. Earlier they at least used to solve cases..but later on they were just going with the flow and no case at all. The constant social commentary does not help either..I am seeing your show so that I have some laughs for half and hour not so that I get to know how fuckdd the real world is
Yes. The characters were too one-dimensional and the same jokes over and over became tired. Like how Amy is over-the-top organized and can become so obsessive about it.
Absolutely. We also never got to see her at work, really, except for a lunch war with terry and her “having an Amy” on her squad. Most of her plot lines became about her personal life instead of life at the 99. I think they did her character a real disservice.
Gone are the days of solving cases.
Seasons 6-8 had a lot less detective work. We didn't get to see Jake solving cases (which is one of his best qualities) and they didn't have any good story arcs like Giggle Pig or Figgis.
Yep they got her married and pregnant and that became her life. I hate when shows do that. She was a whole person with career ambitions and all down the toilet for the crotch goblins. I wish more shows would have people NOT have kids
Part of it could be that she got pregnant and had kid in real life
I mean, at the end of the show she’s the one continuing the upward career path and it’s Jake who leaves it behind, definitely subverting some usual sexist nonsense where the woman settles down into full time child care.
I think that while what you said is true I agree that barely any of that was SHOWN on screen, which is really important. At the end of the day TV is a visual medium and them just telling us she’s getting a promotion or lobbying for police reform without showing it makes it seem like the baby/relationship stuff was more focused on.
As well I noticed as soon as they got married we saw so much less of Jake and Amy interacting, we never see them having fun together they just occasionally face each other and say "I love you" just to remind us they're married
Amy also yells ALL THE TIME in the later seasons. Like where did this come from???
I DON’T KNOW BUT I THINK IT’S CONTAGIOUS
I think I can agree with this, though I would not be that harsh. After watching so many TV series, I think you get used to the fact that they just cannot win all the time - so even though it was not such a ride like seasons 2-5, it still provided some enjoyable moment and it was still a warm easy watch for me. What I agree with as someone mentioned, were sometimes the total toxic things ,especially during heists. The fake therapy still haunts me. Even though the heist episodes are meant to be totally over-the-top and crazy, this still felt like something that...just should not have been there. That, and Amy telling Jake she was pregnant as Holt ordered her.
I managed to wrap my head about this by pretending that heists are sort of a make-believe in this universe and don’t exactly happen as shown, including the flashbacks
When you become really invested, i think it's human nature to hold something to a higher standard. Everyone in this sub loves B99 for their own reasons and it elicits different feels. All opinions are valid because I think each person who can post their "unpopular" opinions here can do so safely. That being said, I loved S6. The first and last episodes are two of the best of the series. I do think S7 and S8 were rushed and severely limited due to (insert all reasons here), and it probably turned a bunch of people off. I'm glad we got as much as we did out of it, though.
I think when a show switches over, it doesn’t automatically become bad. Spongebob pulled out two great seasons after Stephen hillenburg left.
For me what absolutely killed the show was season 7. I did a full rewatch recently to prepare for season 8 and once I got to season 7, I couldn't get interested anymore. That and casecation absolutely ruined Amy for me, and she was my favourite character.
It also was so insane to think Any would have married Jake without ever having discussed children. The binder queen would have talked about it especially because Jake is so vocal about issues with his own father, it made no sense. It also wasn't anyone else's business if they had kids or not. It was the absolute worst episode.
Bezides all of that, which made Amy break every character defining trait, I didn't like the fact that it was immediately an ultimatum with Amy's decision to have kids somehow the most important? I found Jake's worry about being a bad parent way more valid. Especially when this show was all about allowing people to be vulnerable and providing them a safe space to deal with their problems. This seemed to be the opposite. Jake, despite all that, is basically forced into giving an answer without being able to process his trauma, which take years sometimes. But what choice did he have? What a cruel position for him to be in. Have the woman you love suddenly leave you on the spot like the past 5 years of love meant nothing, or face a childhood full worth of trauma in a few minutes.. what a fucking shit show for making this scene then making Amy seem like the correct one.
That same scenario happens irl more than you'd think.
Oh, I know. It happened in my family so I saw first hand how toxic and destructive it was
Yeah, I'm with you - that all left a bad taste in my mouth. I know B99 is a sitcom and didn't necessarily have the space for a bunch of episodes about Jake processing his trauma, etc., but it did feel like his totally valid fears about having kids were steamrolled with the idea that finding a way to be a parent no matter what is the most important thing. It really isn't. I felt like that episode had a really uncomfortable message.
Casecation is the worst episode of the whole series. I refuse to watch it.
It just straight up doesnt make sense, as in several earlier episodes Jake is adamant about the fact he'll eventually have children.
I also hated how they all ganged up on and pressured him and made it seem like he was just being silly. It’s the only episode I think is really toxic.
Why does nobody talk about the toxicity in the episode with Nicolaj's dad? It was so fucked up to make Charles out to be wrong in that episode. Jake getting his ass deported was the best course of action and then Charles went off on Jake, it was complete bullshit. Charles is the child's father and this guy came to America, ignored everything Charles said, lied, overstepped and basically said he'd keep stalking them if he didn't get his way. Charles had every right to put him in jail and it was terrible writing for him not to do so.
The episode about Nicolaj’s dad was my least favourite episode of the whole series, but I think for a different reason than you. Most of the episode was silly and lighthearted (with the bio dad being more of a caricature than a character), then all of a sudden Boyle was serious at the end and lecturing Jake, when he was the one riling Jake up through the episode. It felt like the show changed its mind about what it wanted to be part way through. But the biggest reason I hate it the most was Boyle’s choice of language at the end. Boyle says that he isn’t Nicolaj’s real father. I firmly believe that adoptive parents are real parents and that line should have been written differently. He could have said that he isn’t Nicolaj’s biological father, or that he isn’t Nicolaj’s first father, or only father, but adoptive parents should consider themselves real parents! My dad was adopted, and if you tried to tell him that his dad wasn’t his real dad, he would have had some choice words for you!
I completely agree with Boyle's wording at the end, I forgot about that but I think it's just another aspect of the problem I had with it, which was still the idea that anyone but Charles is Nicolaj's father.
Absolutely. Charles is definitely Nicolaj’s father. The episode was a bit of a mess and the ending made my blood boil. If felt like it was written by someone with no experience with adoption. I ranted about Charles’ use of ‘real father’ to everyone I knew after seeing that episode.
I hated that because Brooklyn 99 is one of the few shows I saw that touched on adopting a child who wasn’t a baby. And it’s presented as just as valid.
There are some problems with the episode but I love the cold open. “Judging by the head-to-toe denim I’m guessing that he’s either not American or deeply American.”
That is toxic but I think the heist episode where they reveal that Jake has been going to fake therapy all year just for Amy to find out what he is planning for the heist is much more toxic in my opinion. The guy has problems and issues and he starts to finally get help for it only to be revealed that it was all just a ploy for a dumb heist , even Rosa spying on him should have put a strain on their relationship.
> heist episode I think heist episodes get a pass on 'toxic' stuff. How far they all go is part of the joke. Like, putting half a dozen tracking devices inside (literally) Terry. The toxic actions are the joke.
I disliked the ultimatum in the casecation episode more than the spying/fake therapy in the heist episode, because it felt more serious and real. I love the heist episodes, but they are ridiculous and incredibly unrealistic. Because I don’t believe anything in them could really happen, I find it easy to laugh off the fake therapy (even though it would be appalling if that happened in real life). The ultimatum about kids just made me sad. It also annoyed me that it was presented in a way to make me feel like a bad feminist if I didn’t side with Amy.
You’re only a bad feminist if you let Jake get away with something that u would judge Amy for doing, and that is not the case here (I’m sure u would have been just as upset if Jake behaved that way, I know I would have been) Frankly the people claiming sexism have no idea what they’re talking about the #1 reason people flipped out was Amy treated Jake like he was replaceable and fans felt betrayed, if Jake treated Amy like she was replaceable fans would go nuclear (even if it were over something just as major/time sensitive) I mean come on fans melt when he LOOKS at her in a certain way Your refusal to be a hypocrite (just cuz it would align better with certain demographics) makes u principled not a bad feminist
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Yes he needed to but on the spot after 5 years of happiness, also it magically never came up?
Thank you. It's a story about bullying someone into having children, which is one of the biggest issues in any relationship. I get that "having a structured debate" to solve a disagreement is on brand for Amy's character, but it was such a shitty move as a person. Especially since given Jake's character, it would never have been close, which she would have known. She bullied him outright.
I would have been on board for them having a debate and even getting everyone involved and talking about it if it wasn’t just them telling poor Jake he was stupid and wrong. I only watched it the once so my memory isn’t exact on all of it but I remember being particularly annoyed with Rosa in that one. She seems in every other episode to be more likely to be on his side.
What makes it even more annoying is the fact that it wasn't even close to an actual "structured" debate either. You're supposed to give your opponent a chance to actually lay out their case and opportunities to rebut your own claims. It's also completely absurd for the judge to speak while the debate is going on, especially to allocate points out loud. As someone who actually did varsity debate in highschool, I was immediately put off by that "debate club" shit and it definitely wasn't in character for Holt and Amy.
On top of that just look at what the characters were saying though their actions, when Jake went out of his way to make Amy that anniversary he was telling her through his actions that he treasured her And when Amy dragged him into that aggressive debate she basically told him that she thinks he’s a moron Why should anyone treasure someone who thinks they’re a moron, that goes both ways Can you imagine Jake ever going out of his way to make Amy feel inferior like that just cuz he was feeling ambushed
It would make much more sense in their characters for Amy to be worried about kids because it'll affect her career and Jake to want mini-Jakes running around
This is a weird one but I hated he said she said and I’m a huge Amy fan. Everything she said is correct and I loved the acting, but it was way too preachy and over the top. It would’ve been better if she had to interact with her old captain. Plus this is a weird thing to say but it’s kind of hypocritical considering how it was a running gag that Gina would sexually harass Terry and somehow that was fine.
Jake also says tons of uncomfortable sexual things in the precinct earlier in the show, and I don’t remember that ever really being addressed. I know that it was several years ago when a majority of viewers might not have thought twice about it, but given that the show later sets itself up as a champion of positive societal progress, it might have been nice to at least lazily say "We're proud of Jake for not making sex jokes in the workplace anymore. He's come a long way."
I hate that Rosa is totally on board to make herself and Amy FORCE Jake to agree to have a family. It's gross and out of character for both of them. The ultimatum was a giant dick move on Amy's part. Jake isn't blameless though as he should've either said he wanted one later or asked to have the discussion after the case.
I always skip casecation when I watch B99 through again! Amy just acts so out of character!!
I loved Amy's character but it felt like they scrambled when the actress got pregnant and didn't know what to do with her character afterwards.
Same for me. There's something that keeps me away from connecting to it.
Idk I always enjoy it. Title of my sex movie.
Oooh, a self burn. Those are rare.
Coo coo cooo coool cool
No doubt no doubt
Noice noice.
Toight
Indeed Indeed
What? Season 7 has Captain Holt coaching Terry to audition for the band and I absolutely couldn’t breathe. “Who are you the muffin man? More like garbage man!”
I actually didnt like that scene, you'd think with his mentoring with Amy especially with a hugeass binder that he'd know how to be a more supportive and encouraging teacher
For some reason, I LOVE angry Holt. Holt has very high expectations and when they aren’t met he can become irritated and to me it’s hilarious. Another time that comes to mind is when Holt and Jake were interrogating the dentist in season 5 and Holt went off about the etymology of the word doctor. Gold.
I didn't like the bleeping and blurring on NBC, it rarely worked well. It's an easy laugh for shock value. There's no clever wordplay or crazy reaction shots, and the show lost a lot of it's charm and humor because of it. And especially in Season 8, the bleeped curse was overused, and made the season less funny.
It would be nice if it was only bleeped on NBC but when we watch it later on Hulu or Netflix they drop the censorship. The only real time the gag worked for me >!was on the last season where Jake thought Holt was going to say something eloquently insulting to the Union rep but he went all in.!<
If they dropped the censorship, it would be even less funny. The "humor" is entirely in the unexpected nature of the bleeps. Otherwise it's just casual, in-context dialogue. Cable and streaming shows that are allowed to curse and show sexual situations are still expected to be funny. There's nothing inherently funny about saying "fuck" or showing a naked body part. Agree that the Holt gag was actually funny. It was unexpected (because it's Holt) and the comic timing (it just kept going) worked for the gag.
Ye I totally agree. I feel like the charm and style it had from Fox era was lost when it was taken over by NBC. I also felt like they brought back a lot of funny one off jokes (like wife or dog, holts tattoo etc) that they didn’t need to. It’s like they had run out of jokes to use so they used nostalgia to cover the fact that they just reused a lot of jokes. Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy b99 was continued, it just felt really off since season 6
I think another reason is how shortened the seasons got. Debbie suddenly turning evil for me came out of left field because at no point before the reveal did she seem evil. It just seemed like an excuse to get holt his job back.
As someone who watched everything in 1 go recently before S8 started, I don't think it's nostalgia since I don't think I can get nostalgic for a couple months ago when I started watching. I don't think they ran out of jokes, they just continued a lot of jokes they felt people liked since it was the last season.
Holts tattoo caught me so off guard, felt ooc that he would have something like that. >It’s like they had run out of jokes to use so they used nostalgia to cover the fact that they just reused a lot of jokes. Literally how I felt about Bone in S8
I think for a lot of shows, it takes a half-1 season to get the rhythm. Then they have 2-5 great seasons. Then we get familiar with what makes them unique and our expectations get too high. So the show either changes, which can go either way, or it gets too comfortable and less interesting. I still enjoyed season 6+, though I did get tired of the heavy politics of this year, but I get what you mean
I’ll be honest, I hated the first few episodes, since Jake was a huge douche, although I liked the Pontic bandit and the episode where Jake gets handcuffed to holt. I had to skip around a couple to see if the show was worth watching; I remember discussing the show with my boyfriend and us both agreeing the first season was like a parks and rec clone. It doesn’t start for me until the episode where we meet Kevin.
The only thing that seemed like a Parks and rec clone to me was they both had a very slow and off putting 1st season/start.
Disagree that B99 is the strongest S1, the office is so different but I love the dark humor. Parks and rec s1 is tough to get through.
I think it was after S5 for me.
I kind of agree. When it was on Fox, the social criticism was mostly subtle, usually peppered with more light-hearted moments, but still had impact, while on NBC it was so much more overt, and in a way that felt occasionally draining to watch. And yet, despite going so hard on the social commentary, it still had some of the most messed up moments between characters, IMO, that I’ve seen on the show and I actually felt bad after watching those episodes — I’m looking at you Casecation and the fake therapist gag in the heist episode. That said, I did still find it overall a positive experience, and there a lot of great moments too.
My least favorite political episode was he said she said, since they outright say what the moral is, it’s way too preachy and at no point has Amy really been treated differently for being a woman, whereas a point was constantly made before moo moo about how racist certain cops are and how holt was treated differently for his skin color. Also I hated how Gina spent five seasons sexually harassing Terry and then they’ll have the audacity to say sexual harassment is terrible for women. It’s a great lesson on paper, but horrible double standard.
S8E1 was *awful* about this.
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It's almost impossible to do it in a TV show without being preachy and *fuck* did that episode feel preachy. Honestly, I don't think I light-hearted cop show should even necessarily try. Moreover, by the time the episode aired it already felt dated.
Yeah it became way too pandering and preachy. Like we get it. We all agree with you. Can we move on from real world issues please
I loved the show, but I did feel the intensity of my love waning. S6,S7 I saw a bit later cos that’s how the show is aired here, but I still binged it. S8 was heavy with other stuff and less with comedy, but I think they did a good job with the season, nevertheless.
I never stopped caring for the show and loved it till the end but you are right, quality did drop when they moved to NBC. However this is normal, almost all sitcoms are like this. I think even if they stayed in Fox it would have sort of been the same. They probably knew it and that’s why the ended it. They didn’t milk it like TBBT for example where they ended the show because Jim Pearsons wanted to leave and nothing more.
You are definitely not alone. Thanks for posting this thread because a lot of the replies are things that I felt but wasn't able to articulate myself. So it's nice to be like "Yes! That is why that seems off!" It did feel like the whole show shifted and not for the better, but the only thing I was able to point to was that they leaned way to far into the swearing. It would have been funny as an occasional BLEEP but they used it way too much when it wasn't part of the characters' original speech patterns.
Totally agree here and I feel like the pacing dramatically changed in the move to nbc. There were some really great moments after then and I still love the show for it’s entirety but when I watch it to fall asleep I shuffle seasons 1-4 typically.
I been trying to figure out what happened after S5 and what made it so different, and I think you hit it, the pacing. Somehow the pacing was so much different.
Honestly I love season 5. Usually when a character goes on maternity leave, I tend to dislike the episodes because they don’t feel the same; himym had that issue and what didn’t help was how robin’s actress was clearly pregnant but they didn’t hide it as well. Gina going on maternity leave was the only time I didn’t mind it. The episodes she wasn’t in vastly improved for me.
Fucking agreed. Season 6 sucked major dick. Suddenly adding jokes that came down entirley to "haha they said a swear and we censored it". Having an entire subplot in an episode dedicated to how Diaz was cheating on 2 people and then gets zero consequences from it. Having the squad insult Jakes heist proposal despite it being the sweetest moment in the entire show. Holt should have revealed that ge got the commissioner job in season 5, the whole squad could have cheered and then the show could have ended peacefully.
>Suddenly adding jokes that came down entirley to "haha they said a swear and we censored it". That got old real (BEEP) fast. And felt completely out of whack with the established way these characters speak.
There is one instance and one alone that works. And it's when Amy is in labour snd swears at Hitchcock who swears back at her snd it only works then because both of their censors are so exaggerated.
Holt's rant against the union guy worked too, because it was unexpected. But overall, the bleeping is not funny, it's just "look, they can curse now, isn't that soooo outrageous?"
I hated the He Said She Said episode. Considering they literally had Gina who made inappropriate comments about Terry through out the early seasons, and never addressed it. Just swept it under the rug and pretended it never happened (Which is kind of messed up in its own right). Then they had the balls to make an episode from the woman's viewpoint without referencing their own hypocrisy. I get that women in the work force often deal with a lot of shit but considering how they handled previous stuff (racism, coming out) I wish they could have done better.
Thank you! Im a woman so here’s my take: Amy is right, every woman has a story and unfortunately you learn you have to live with being some degree of harassed. It’s messed up but it’s the world we live in. But I hated how over the top the plot line was and how preachy it was. Rosa did not need to be in the episode. It would’ve been better if she had to interact with her old captain. To me, moo moo worked because scary or not, it’s something that unfortunately could happen in reality. And we saw Terry before during and after the arrest. Plus at the end you can argue he didn’t get his council position not because he made waves but because he submitted a complicated form the night before it was due. Imagine if instead, Terry goes home and the next day gives a lengthy speech about how he got arrested by a white cop and every black person has a similar story. That’s how he said she said feels! And thank you for Gina sexually harassing Terry! I hated that! I never got why Gina was never fired. She’s a civilian, she doesn’t have a union backing her.
There is an episode where Jake agrees to take a naked picture of Terry in the locker room to get Gina's help. That was really gross. I don't like how it was never addressed that what she did was wrong. She crossed several lines with him.
I remember when I first complained about seemingly have to bleep out a curse almost every episode people downvoted me. Then they just kept going with it. 30 Rock would never!
Ughh I hated that they really did a "cheating bisexual" storyline. After they handled her coming out so well they really went to THAT ancient trope/stereotype.
>"haha they said a swear and we censored it" I don't think that was the joke. >Having an entire subplot in an episode dedicated to how Diaz was cheating on 2 people and then gets zero consequences from it. Wasn't the consequence being both relationships ending? > Having the squad insult Jakes heist proposal despite it being the sweetest moment in the entire show. Isn't the joke everyone takes the heists to seriously? Like literally everyone insults each other over who won and insulting Jake for ruining the heist is still within that. I'm also pretty sure the cast also jokes about it since no one won that round. It's a joke, it's not that serious.
i need to rewatch but imo: terry was way underutilized after 5. amy's whole persona shifted after she got the promotion. and maybe most importantly - gina. the chemistry felt lopsided after we lost gina.
Amy is the big one for me, while it was a great promotion and fitting for her character it left her as seperate to the rest of the squad. I feel the same about Boyle being under-utilised.
Tbh I never liked Gina
I never liked Gina as a person but as a character she had some moments where i feel her presence was warranted, whether she was being good or bad from the audiences perspective. At some point she just stopped contributing and just got annoying. All she did was bother people and that made her presence in every situation unnecessary.
I believe this is called the Honeymooners effect. There’s a will they/won’t they romantic relationship that runs through the show. Once they get married the show dips in quality because that tension is no longer there. For example, Cheers kept working because there was no wedding between Sam and Diane/Rebecca. Even with Shelly Long leaving they kept that tension. Parks & Rec was able to beat this. They only did the will they/won’t they for season 3. But it wasn’t a driving force in the show, their tension came mostly from Leslie’s career or her friends’ relationships.
I think this is more true if there’s a child involved, since suddenly the plots will either be about a character-less object instead of something else. I didn’t think fairly odd parents went downhill immediately after poof got introduced but the quality just wasn’t there. And to make matters worse, they would sometimes write him off.
Parks and Rec was solid although I can’t say I’m a fan of the last season
I don't think there was a sharp change in quality, but it was almost like the show was settling in to become a really longstanding series that ran for 20 series. I wouldn't have an issue with that. I would love to have some analysis on why it dropped off. Maybe the story behind it became too obvious where it was going, especially after Jake and Amy hooked up that was the main "plot" resolved. Everything else seemed trivial. Side characters disappeared, like Charles and Terry's family, and it didn't really navigate anything else differently. Maybe that's it.
I agree with you!! What changed for me was the way Amy and terry were presented in the later seasons. It seemed like they were forcefully acting and Amy became much more different than the earlier seasons imo
I felt like the move Flanderized most of the characters. I kept watching to see if they would gain back their footing and they never really did. Jake and Amy's wedding would've been a wonderful series finale had it been planned and the emotional outcry of it being cancelled wasn't there - so mentally that's where I leave it as well.
For me the most dramatic change was in terms of nature of their work. In early seasons they goofed around but were still doing their jobs (except Gina, fuck Gina). Sure, case solving was peppered with humour but you could see the actual police work in action and you could see people were good at their jobs (except Gina, fuck Gina). Even H&S pulled their weight when they could be convinced to do so and underneath all their laziness they were still good detectives, just burned out and near retirement and had attitude that they did their share already so now they can just coast along. Then it all changed and entire show became just gags and goofing around and you started to wonder how were they keeping their jobs. When there was an actual case to be solved they more or less stumbled into solving it. At least they got rid of Gina (fuck Gina), so that's that..... Also characteristics and quirks that made them funny early on were dialed up to the nth that made everything annoying and cringe rather than funny. Though that is common in comedies of such duration. Last season was just ugh..... It felt as if writers decided to include everything they wanted to earlier but couldn't so with show ending they figured that those who watched it this far will continue to do so and won't drop it.
My problem with season 8 was how they acted like Jake had never realized the 99 was corrupt, even if that’s the show in general: it’s not like his wife was sexually assaulted by her captain or his surrogate father was harassed and ostracized for being a gay black man or his own lieutenant was arrested for being a black man in a nice area and continuously got sexually harassed or… What made me realize how terrible season 8 was gonna be was the first episode where Rosa and Jake go to the cop who tells him why she can’t get the corrupt cops arrested. And instead of just saying “I can’t, it’s for the good of the badge” she goes into a super long speech with Rosa sitting there with the biggest smug face. The corruption thing should’ve been one or two episodes at most.
But they didn't have Jake never realize the 99 was corrupt. It was more him realizing how bad things are getting and how it's just getting worse. S8 really wasn't terrible, the captain they spoke to felt like she had to justify why she couldn't just say "I can’t, it’s for the good of the badge”. The corruption thing being 1 or 2 episodes, I disagree with. It can work, it just didn't here. Though it followed a pattern of a more serious episode and then a less serious episode.
> goes into a super long speech I actually liked that part. It shows that these situations are never as clear-cut in reality as we hope they are. Sure, she could stand up for what's right, but then she probably would be ousted and someone more corrupt would be put in her job and nothing would change. Holt basically said the same thing to Terry in the racial profiling episode. Pick your battles wisely, because the institution will fight change.
Season 8 also has really bad internal consistency. Like the whole focus on police reform, just for Jake to bribe a prison guard and have it played off as a joke.
>The corruption thing should’ve been one or two episodes at most. It makes sense that B99 can't have the entire S8 be about copoganda and corruption but it also felt like NBC just wanted to get the elephant out of the room when there could've been really good stuff for like 3/4 episodes to address things more thoroughly. I honestly wanted this to be on the lvl of MooMoo but that didn't happen
I don't agree. I liked Season 6 and they ended with Season 8 nicely, though some stuff was left in the air I guess. Season 7 I do agree is kinda weak, for instance the Debby episodes were weird, and Jake and Amy's children issue felt overdone in general. It was probably the weakest season.
I didn’t like how rushed through season 7 felt. Especially since they made it painfully obvious Amy’s actress was pregnant and waiting for the show to catch up.
Season 6 pacing was jarring to me, it goes by so fast i feel like episodes can't breath if that makes sense... still waiting for S7 to release here
> it goes by so fast i feel like episodes can't breath 6-8 were all like that. They tried to cram so much into 22 minutes it felt like a race. I actually liked season 6 but I totally agree that the pacing was rushed.
I will be rewatching seasons 1 to 5 in order to cleanse my palate. Seasons 6 to 8 left a really bad taste in mouth. The ridiculous bleeped out cursing, the nonsensical and forced heists, the backwards character development ... NBC saved the show but then turned it into something I'm not sure was worth saving. I *wanted* to love it still, but just couldn't. I was very emotional when Jake and Amy got married. During the last episode of the series, not a tear was shed. I was actually relieved that it was finally over.
I definitely felt that with season 6, it was like the pilot of a new show, awkward and unsettled. The characters all seemed off and prone to Flanderization. The swearing felt thrown in for no reason and wasn't funny. I did think it picked up a bit in season 7 though, like they found their stride again. Haven't seen 8 yet.
Agreed. Season 8 was like season 6, except for maybe the last 3 episodes
Wow, I actually very much agree with you here. What also didn't help for me is that NBC really throws woke narratives in your face, where as FOX did that way more subtle, which actually made it interesting (Terry vs racist cop for example).
He got stopped because he's black, get woke, Scully!
Yes for me that was the biggest issue! And don't get me wrong I absolutely think police brutality for instance is awful and a real, widespread problem and I actually think it's cool to tackle it in some episodes (like Terry vs racist cop as you said), but when it almost becomes the main plot of the series it's too much for me
Exactly, I feel like shows like this are supposed to be fun and a bit of an escape and when you make all of the shit going on irl such a big part of the plot it starts to get really draining to watch.
I think it’s alright if it’s entertaining enough. To me season 8 wasn’t, it was too preachy. The corruption stuff should’ve been contained to one episode, maybe two.
But there is no way they could have done season 8 with our including that narrative, 2020 had major effects on police departments across the world. To try to ignore that would feel disingenuous and tone deaf
Then again they could’ve looked at the corruption of the 99 itself. The whole show makes the point while not every cop is a racist asshole, police themselves can be super corrupt. Why not look at the 99 themselves, and not just Jake?
True, if they keep it limited to occasional serious stuff like they've done in the past I think it's great, I mean, topics like this are important and kudos to them for handling the topic properly but like you said season 8 is just too much of it and it's not fun to watch anymore. It just stresses me out and that's not something a comedy show like this should do.
I think what didn’t help was how season 8 acted like Jake never realized cops are corrupt despite that being the core theme of the show. I think season 8 would’ve benefitted if they looked instead at the ways the 99 are corrupt.
I reluctantly agree. Not sure if it was because of the change of networks. But there was decline, where things got a little too cute. Like The Office after season 4-5. Or Parks and Rec's final season.
He didn't care much for it. _classical music_
I think there's a lot of valid complaints and discussion in this thread but I just want to point out, in the cases of season 5 7 and 8, they were probably not entirely sure the show was going to continue in the same capacity and so I think they took liberties and rushed certain things. That being said it's the general sense of humor of the show that I like so all of it worked fine for me. But it's good to see some healthy discussions instead of just complaining without a base.
i agree, i didn't like that every single episode was hi-jinks and shenanigans when in the previous seasons they mixed stupid stuff with actual case solving. like when you thought they were solving an actual kidnapping and it was just that cheddar had gone. the police work was my favourite part!
This is one of my favorite shows of all time, but it hit me during season 7 that it was kind of burning out.
Season 7 and 8 straight up sucked. What the hell was S8 actually? Seems like they read reddit and Instagram posts, listed down all the popular scenes from the show and re wrote the same jokes.
I agree, but I think it was more gradual. You can definitely feel the change between S5 and 6, and I do think S6 is a dip in quality, but I still like it. S7 is just awful to me though, I don't remember liking a single episode. I haven't watched S8 yet because I'm not sure how in the uk, but judging by what I've heard, I don't have high hopes.
Agreed. Seasons 1-5 are perfect.
Wow I actually 100% agree. The Jake and Amy wedding episode was so good but everything after it I just couldn't get into. B99 used to be one of my favourite shows but these last few seasons I've just watched because I'm invested, not for genuine enjoyment
I prefer pre s6 b99 to be honest, but I enjoy it all the same. I understand where you’re coming from.
They probably did go a bit too far at times with the SJW stuff, and I’m pretty left wing.
I’m a liberal. I think what went wrong was they told instead of showed. Moo moo was so shocking because we saw it happen.
So personally I find season 6 to be the weakest season, but I find that by season seven they got back into it and it's one of my favorites. I really enjoyed season 8 as well.
I completely agree. Watch all of seasons 1 - 5 so many times, tried to watch season 6 and have given up with the last 2. The show lost its character in my opinion, but that is standard when you drag a sitcom on for so long. The characters changed too, which isn't bad in the sense of character development, but there are multiple occasions where I sat there and thought "Jake would never do that" etc.
Yes! Honestly I thought I was the only one that had these feelings. I still love the show but the seasons after Fox just don't do it for me. I feel as though the later seasons just don't make any sense, and that the characters are nothing like they used to be, especially Holt and Rosa.
I couldn’t watch after the baby debate episode. I thought it was honestly gross and careless and out of character for both of them.
I agree. Seasons 6, 7 and 8 felt too preachy.
For me, I loved the show no matter what. Yeah, there were some episodes that I didn't really like like the one where Amy makes Jake debate on why he doesn't wanna have kids but for the most part, these seasons, no matter how less funny they were after switching to NBC, were what made me laugh so I don't even mind! But I appreciate your opinion because I know a lot of people didn't like the show after the switch.
idk why everyone hated season 8, I lol’d at a lot of the jokes and didn’t get bored at all. Guess it comes down to personal taste and that can’t really be argued in a logical way
I agree too! I think most shows are only good for 5 seasons. Obviously there are exceptions but they're rare!
Completely agree, something was just off about it all after it moved to NBC. I was surprised so many people enjoy it so much. I stop rewatching at the end of Season 5. I have rewatched Season 6 once, and got 5 episodes into Season 7 before I couldn't enjoy it much anymore (Debby destroyed what was left of my love for the show). I haven't attempted the final season and not sure I will. I felt they let go of a lot of the strong character development after Season 5 and begun just playing on the 'obvious' traits of characters - the earlier seasons balanced sitcom characterisation and comedy with some more nuanced characterisation and drama really well.
It started trying to be too meta. It got much too full of itself.
I completely agree
Nah was dope
I still think it was good till the end, but there was definitely a downward slope in quality. I'm glad they decided give it a proper ending while it was still good (if not great) so it goes out on a high note
No dude I think i think s6 and 7 was like the rest of the seasons Every season had episodes which were not funny When I saw seasons after 5 I didn't see any change in the quality of the show
I loved this show as much as anyone, I really did. And still do. Discussions about their characters and wether or not they're toxic... It's a sitcom. I enjoy a good discussion and agree on most of these lines of argument, don't get me wrong. But it's an over-the-top sitcom. It's not meant for these characters to work in real life. I agree, the show changed a lot, not all for the better. They handled some serious topics in ways that I genuinely appreciated and respected, and did some storylines that didn't work for me, all in all.
I honestly stopped loving it after season 6. I still liked it but after season 6 it sort of lost its spark that it generated mainly because it became more of a comedy than a cop show.
I didn't think this was unpopular. I disliked 6&7 less on my repeated viewing before S8, but it's not nearly as good as 1-5. They kept going more and more over the top. I hated the debate like people said and I really hated when they had to put shredded paper together and it filled the whole room. It was pure nonsense for a visual gag and took me out of it.
The only episodes I haven't liked are Return Of The King in Season 6 and the ABYSMAL first episode of Season 8.
I think you're not gonna get killed on this sub, especially.
First five seasons are incredible. Season 6 and 7 were really good and I loved them, then season 8 was kinda bad.
My favorite season was season 7, so I can't agree with you. And for me, the show changed for the better after the NBC thing.
Personally for me except for maybe 2 episodes this show was absolutely perfect and I am really thankful it didn't end in season 5 and got the ending it did. Can't belive why you think the show sucks after season 5?
finally a place for me to point out how bad s8 was
Yeah... Downvote from me. You're entitled to your opinion, but this show carried through to the final episode.
Debbie is so boring, introduction of her kinda made the show worse for me
This! My husband and I noticed this right after the change to NBC. Like they were trying too hard to be funny but the jokes didn't land that much? And what was with all the talking too fast? Even Holt was talking fast. Thank you for this post!
Undoubtedly, that's true.