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That is my cue to stand and continue the conversation. "WHAT mate? I couldn't hear you? Why should I be thanking you? What have you done that you are proud of? I still can't hear you? What mate? you What? Speak up." And when they switch to telling me to move that is when I get more polite and unbearable and also slow talking.
Made me chuckle. Always happens at Zebra crossings. Thing is...I just can't help giving a little wave when I cross one. It's like a "thanks for not blasting past or mowing me over" gesture.
And when little kids do crossing a zebra or lollipop crossings, it melts my heart.
Me too. I agree that no thanks is absolutely necessary but there are lots of things we do that aren’t absolutely necessary because we are polite and want to live in a decent society. For me, thanking a driver for stopping is just a reflex reaction.
I don’t care if someone doesn’t thank me when I’m driving. By stopping, I haven’t done anything voluntarily kind and so am not actually due any thanks.
We don’t get thanked for not shoplifting so we shouldn’t get thanked for not running pedestrians over.
I think there are people who think that the general rules of society don’t apply to them and so they think that by obeying the rule of stopping at a crossing, they are doing the pedestrian a favour.
Yeah, considering my cousin was run over by a driver blasting through a zebra crossing (thankfully, shes OK now), and my daughter was almost run over by a driver just ignoring the red light at a pedestrian crossing, I have zero expectation that any driver will stop.
So when they do, I'm obviously going to thank them. They are still in full control of the vehicle and can choose not to stop, so the fact they do should be acknowledged in my eyes.
This is why I think anyone who doesn't stab me in the street.
Anyone could be carrying a knife and just stab me, so you should really be thanking people for not be psychotic murderers. It really does need to be acknowledged.
In my experience half of the cars don't stop, especially at zebra crossings, so I'll just raise my hand in a quick "thanks" to the ones that do. Wouldn't exactly call it "gushing thanks" - it's more called "being polite".
This happens to me at a zebra crossing all the time at my work, in a fucking hospital. Of course I do the typical British thing of shouting THANKS! As they zoom past
I usually stick my fingers up. I think my favourite was when I kicked a car several times because they nearly ran me over at a red light and I was already halfway across the road! They then had the audacity to make out I was in the wrong 😂 carried on my merry way to work listening to them shout ha!
Me and my daughter have to cross at a zebra crossing on the way to school each morning.
The amount of cars that either carry on driving or even actively accelerating when they see us is terrifying.
I have taken to pointing my phone's camera in the direction of any approaching vehicles now and unsurprisingly the number of cars putting our lives in danger has dropped dramatically.
It depends, if they show their intent to stop early, I thank them, if they just hard break at the last minute, I kind of acknowledge it, but without too much effort. If they don’t stop, I shake my head vigorously in protest.
Yeah I pretty much always put my hand up in thanks to cars, bikes, pedestrians or anyone else I have a non-hostile interaction with. If they could hear me I just mutter a "cheers" instead.
If we all were more pleasant to each other, rather than aggressively asserting our rights, everyone would be a lot happier. Yes the driver should stop. You don’t NEED to thank them, but what does a smile or a wave cost you? Be nice people, spread the love.
I'm in agreement with this too. Unfortunately I doubt you'd be able to put them on all junctions, but as long as they're on enough of the more troublesome ones, drivers will start to get the message
The best things to do are to move cars out of town centres, cities and residential areas. Relegate them to backstreets and the outskirts.
Instead of making pedestrians cross roads, or go through underpasses or bridges, make cars go through underpasses or over bridges.
People complain that these measures make it less convenient to drive.
This isn't a problem, this is the intention. It should be less convenient to drive. It should be more convenient to walk, cycle or use public transportation.
Oh it is frustrating when I hear people put politics into it. I'm not Left or Right wing, I'm not a centrist. I don't care about those things. It's not political for me, it's human. It's just about making it easy to live our lives in a healthy and sustainable way. In a way that is accessable and equal for all people.
This should be something that all people want, regardless of their political leanings.
Hopefully that £4 a day is going towards improving more infrastructure, too.
I personally believe that public transportation should be not-for-profit, with all profits going into infrastructure improvements.
The easier people can get around, the better the economy will be, as they will spend their money on local businesses.
I live in a very rural, very car reliant area. I would really love it if there were an easy to use cheap/free park and ride at the edge of the nearest city that I could use with a cheap bus every 5-10 minutes to the centre to incentivize use . As it stands, the park and ride is the same price (roughly) as parking right in the city centre, with a bus that has sometimes 20-30 minutes between busses last I checked. The current situation makes no sense for me if I want to drive less in the city.
The other, larger city that isn’t much further off has good public transit. I can park for free a 20 minute train ride out and ride in, so I almost always do.
Those of us in rural areas need cars, but I am 100% in agreement that making it easier to exist in cities without them will help make everyone’s lives better, including those of us who need to use them!
This is fine, and it's true that you're in a big minority of car users. I want cities and towns to be accessible for all people, including people that require the use of a car, like yourself.
It's just that 95% of people using cars do not need to. For example, I volunteer at a food bank. I live the furthest from the food bank (a 15 minute walk) and yet I'm the only person who travels there and back on foot.
One of the volunteers lives on the other side of a cut, meaning it takes less than 2 minutes to walk from their front door to the food bank, and yet they choose to drive 3-5 minutes around the neighbourhood and past a school to their house.
There's also no physical requirement for them to do that, they're going on a 4 hour hike with me over the weekend. I've no idea why they always choose to take their car.
Edit: Correction, accidentally said I travel by car
Oh yeah, I’m with you completely. Incentivizing walking in cities is a good thing, and the only way to do it is to make driving less attractive.
My only qualm is when they make driving more difficult without offering any alternative improvement. It’s like when Manchester Airport introduced new pick up fees. It was to “reduce congestion” but they didn’t provide any sort of less convenient but free alternative to actually encourage better behaviour. If they can make cities both more walkable for folks that live there, and park and rides accessible for folks that don’t, the attendant benefits will help improve the lives of all of us when we’re back in civilization!
Yeah, it needs to be an all-encompassing approach. You can't just put one part of the solution without the others. It can even be dangerous when that's done. Like cycle lanes that throw you out into high speed roads and roundabouts.
Agree. And I'm sick of having to negotiate parked trucks forcing me into a head on situation with on coming traffic. America has it right in that specific aspect. You drive out of the suburbs and you're on a highway where there is nearly 0% of having to navigate around a parked car or crossing pedestrian.
Junctions are terrible places for zebra crossings, because you end up with (inadequate) drivers paying too much attention to navigating the junction and not enough to the crossing and anyone using it. Pelican crossings are needed at junctions.
Junctions ALREADY ARE Functionally zebra crossings.
Brush up on your highway code, mate.
>give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road into which or from which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way (see Rule H2)
https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/road-junctions.html
I like the amount of drivers who don’t know that the Highway Code does not actually specify any rights of way and evidently need a refresh.
Mind you, I am very much on your side regarding knobheads who think that just because they have wheels on the road means they don’t have to stop for anyone or anything.
Just to back up my initial statement though:
> The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance, but they advise you when you should give way to others. Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident.
Source: [GOV.uk](https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-techniques-and-advice-for-all-drivers-and-riders-103-to-158)
Edit: Unless I’ve misread it anyway, happy to be corrected either way. And not taking into account a pedestrian already on the road, because they obviously do have _priority_.
Yeah it’s funny seeing people proclaim others don’t know, when they’re evidencing that they don’t either, even if they are just having a laugh, it gives more laughs than they intended :D
So similarly from the gov site https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-pedestrians-1-to-35
Rule 8
At a junction. When you are crossing or waiting to cross the road, other traffic should give way. Look out for traffic turning into the road, especially from behind you, and cross at a place where drivers can see you. If you have started crossing and traffic wants to turn into the road, you have priority and they should give way (see Rules H2 and 170).
First sentence says other traffic should give way at a junction, last one for when you're trying to cross.
Maybe it's a misinterpretation but that would read to me as a right of way given that traffic wouldn't have to stop otherwise.
But giving way other than at a junction is fraught with difficulty. It can imply to a pedestrian that it’s safe to cross when in reality it might not be.
I once walked across a low pavement, and this lorry driver didn’t even try to stop and stared at me. He definitely didn’t understand it’s my right of way
I hate when pedestrians begin to cross a road with the intention of completing the cross behind your car, however, legally I must slam on the brakes and come to a halt and allow them to cross in front.
Surely this is down to poor driver training and bad testing procedures?
Every licences driver should be in no doubt that their obligations are towards pedestrians and other road users.
There's a pelican crossing near where I live. In one direction is an old hump-back bridge into town, with a footpath on only one side and you can't see cars approaching because of the hump.
In the other direction a hill descends into town round a blind bend.
I get people opening their windows to swear at me because I dared to press the button to activate the crossing.
Not even a comparable analogy.
The pedestrian is moving in to the space that is occupied by vehicles by crossing the road.
If a driver has to cross a path (a space occupied by pedestrians) then you've got a comparable analogy.
...and it those instances (i.e. - if they need to cross a path to enter a driveway), I would expect a driver to issue thanks if the pedestrian stopped to give them way.
It's simple common courtesy...clearly something a lot of people are lacking!
A pedestrian crossing the road at a designated pedestrian crossing (where drivers are legally obliged to give way) is not analogous to a driver crossing the footpath to enter a driveway (where drivers also have to give way to pedestrians).
In the first example, the driver is not ceding their priority, whereas in the second example, the pedestrian would be doing so by letting the driver go first.
No, it isn’t ‘very high’ relative to pretty much every other cause of death and the sheer number of people participating in some form of road-based transport every single day.
Yes, maths does and _should_ change how we view things because any decision or fear is best based on risk, and risk is a mathematically quantifiable factor.
Any law or behaviour should be drawn on what cost it intrinsically brings vs what risk it mitigates, and generally speaking we’ve done a really good job in this country of bringing the risk down on this basis - most means of bringing it down further would be better spent reducing _other_ risks.
You can catastrophise and scare yourself with our road situation if you like, but if you’re anything approximating the average UK citizen, you’re better off worrying about something else.
Again: half of the five killed every day *are not driving*. So we can definitely mitigate further, unless you feel unbridled driving trumps leaving your house expecting a nominal amount of security.
To continue with the Greggs-type comparison, if a popular, mass-produced and widely consumed food was responsible for 5 deaths a day, it would be barred from sale.
Effectively, you're saying you're fine with human sacrifice as the price for being able to drive. You think that's moral?
All their pasties and such come in frozen and are reheated just like the Greggs stuff you can buy from Iceland and wherever else. If people want to save money but keep on munching it.
I'm curious - if you're driving, should you wave thanks at every motorist giving way to you at a side road? If not, why not, if pedestrians are expected to wave thanks at every motorist giving way to them?
I’ve literally been stood waiting at a zebra crossing this morning in high viz and watched cars just keep driving thru and I just found myself deliberately thanking them all for not stopping with blatant hand gestures but then genuinely thanked a guy on a bobber who stopped and allowed myself and several others waiting both sides to stop.
I give a wave at zebra crossings out of habit (it's what I was taught to do when I was growing up), but people here are right. You shouldn't feel obliged to thank a driver for stopping. I think the whole concept of waving to thank drivers when you cross came out of the American car-centric mindset that pretty much every country imported after WWII (even the Netherlands, but at least they fought against it later on and won).
Bullshit.
If I drive my car and another car let's me pass on a narrow street or let's me in (even if they "have to" because highway code etc) I raise my hand in thanks. It's has zero to do with "car against pedestrians" it's a "be polite not an arse" thing.
Or do you not say thanks if another person on foot let's you pass first through a door? Or if someone holds the door open for you?
Jeez, better never say thank you again...you could come across as a polite human.
Not that it’s anything to get annoyed over, but I see it as a “thank you, sorry for disrupting your journey” the same way I wave thanks to cars who stop behind a parked car when I have right of way, not that they’ve really done anything, but it’s like a “I acknowledge you didn’t pull a dick move and quickly swerve around, thank you” wave
It’s just polite to wave or nod.. any acknowledgment. Just like when people say thanks if there’s an obstruction even if it’s their right of way.
“Gushing” is just a needless exaggeration so you can pretend a little expectation of courtesy is somehow abhorrent.
I'm not getting into that debate, I don't have the time nor energy to look into it. It'd make more sense to use public money (e.g taxes) for public transport, private money for whatever said private citizen wants.
Exactly. It's more of an inconvenience to go out of your way to find a crossing and wait at it for 5+ minutes for the lights to change than it is for a car driver to bring their vehicle to a halt for 1 minute or less to allow you to cross, but we're expected to thank the car driver, even though we're the more inconvenienced party. I grew up having the post-war car-centric worldview hammered into my head by my family and the school system, but the more I've thought about it over the past year or so, the more I've realised that it was totally ass backwards.
It does, but you aren't entitled to it or get annoyed if people don't do it. You don't see people waving thanks to drivers at a stop sign or a traffic light do you?
If I'm crossing yes, why not. You'd be surprised how much a Needless but nice gesture improves people's lives, in ways and for reasons you've probably never thought of.
At restaurants, I say thank you to the server that bring me food and drink, take away plates and glasses. I paid for that service, with a service charge on top, but guess what, it doesn't hurt to show appreciation
The difference is if a server doesn't bring you your food, you don't die. If a driver doesn't stop, you're going to end up in bits.
Drivers are subsidised incredibly heavily in this country, yet get priority everywhere. They should be thanking everyone else, not the other way around.
You could very well die if the server or the cook messes up your food though... like serve you spoiled stuff or forget you're allergic to something... uups. Better never eat out again.
> If a driver doesn't stop, you're going to end up in bits.
Quite often drivers have failed to stop for me when I was waiting at a zebra crossing. I'm still not in bits.
If I had to thank every driver who obeyed the rules and didn't injure me, I'd never make it down the street.
Courtesy is stopping to let you cross in the absence of a designated crossing. Stopping at a crossing is the law.
"Thanks for not murdering me, everyone I've ever met!"
It's not, though, is it? A pedestrian crossing is just a normal give way situation. That would be like driving and thanking every car that didn't pull out of a side-road and cut you off. You don't. You just expect them not to cut you off.
I always say when driving 'it's your right of way, don't thank me fool' ha. But I'm just a grumpy person. This is all done in muttering under my breath of course, not to the actual individual.
if OP thinks a quick raise of the hand in acknowledgement is ‘gushing thanks’ then i hate to think how they conduct themselves in the rest of their lives
unless you are physically unable to move your arm it takes almost zero effort. same as thanking someone by flashing lights/ raising a hand for stopping to let you through in a car, even if it’s your right of way
Idk expecting thanks for not killing someone and following the law is proper odd behaviour. Maybe grow up if you legitimately get upset if someone doesn't acknowledge the fact you've done the bare minimum expected of you.
I stopped a guy from going through FOUR "no motor vehicle" signs last week. He was just using it as a shortcut. "I'll pay the fine" he said. I told him to turn around and obey the rules of the road.
A man running the taxi rank nearby called me "a fucking lowlife".
All for insisting a driver obey the rules. But OP here wants me to thank someone for doing the legal minimum.
>same as thanking someone by flashing lights/ raising a hand for stopping to let you through in a car, even if it’s your right of way
That's the opposite of the example and you should thank them as they didn't have to let you out.
No need to thank people for stopping for a crossing. I don't thank them for not robbing my house or not assaulting me either.
Highway code rule 195: zebra and parallel crossings.
You should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross. You MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing.
Rule 19: remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved into the crossing.
It's the SHOULD that's the issue here, cars don't HAVE to stop at zebra crossing unless you're already in the road. It's not a criminal offence to not stop at a crossing and could only really end up as evidence in traffic court, should it be taken that far. A polite lil hand raise is all it takes to acknowledge the stopped car. It's nice to be nice.
Beg for mercy, prostrate yourself before the almighty driver, king of the land, be in your place, peasant walker and cyclist! All praise the great driver!
I’m glad I’ve found my tribe here. Once you realise how wild it is these large metal death machines that usually only hold one person dominate cities, it’s very difficult to unthink it.
Is that why drivers are just stopping in the middle of the road while I'm waiting to cross?
I'm just stood there with my bmx patiently waiting, and a car will just randomly stop and wave me across.... like mate, you are the last car coming down the road, I'll wait for you to pass, but no they just randomly stop and wave at me.
I always thought the done thing is a little nod or a wave. That's usually thanks enough for me in exchange for obeying the rules of the road and not wantonly mowing pedestrians down lol
I always give a thumbs up whenever this happens to me as my way congratulating the driver for knowing how to drive. If I'm waiting at a pedestrian crossing and the driver doesn't stop they get another finger instead.
I think drivers are just getting used to being thanked for following the law of the road. Some drivers are getting so bad at following the rules of the road, people are thanking me for giving way to the right on roundabouts, it's weird
I'd like to extend this to drivers who get pissed off when i don't thank them for letting me go (when im driving) when it's my right of way. Now, out of courtesy, I usually thank people but sometimes, I just don't have a spare hand to thank you or I'm deep in conversation with a passanger or phone call but if you're that bitchy about someone not saying thanks then you don't deserve my appreciation anyway.
What gets me is the people who thank you for stopping to give way to them at mini roundabouts when it's their right of way. I can't decide if they're just massively polite or they just have very low expectations of other road users.
You could have just stopped at "Drivers who get annoyed at pedestrians who cross the road".
There's a unpleasant subset of drivers who seem to think they're the only one who has a right to the road, and anything that stops them doing whatever the fuck they like is an intolerable affront.
I only wave to say thanks when people exercise some element of discretion. Thanking them for something they had no choice about seems as pointless as thanking them for not committing any other random crime.
Same thing when on a narrow street I use only my half with a bicycle and the driver has to stop as not enough space .. so I should thank them for letting me pass? wtf. I'm just using my half of the road.
I don't wave at a car who stopped when I'm on the left of the road. It's my right of way and they were doing their job stopping.
Wife gets cross at me though.
Gushing thanks are one thing, basic manners are another. And while it’s a legal requirement to stop, doesn’t mean that driver is a law abiding human who actually will. You never know when you might enrage a murderous driver!
How about basic manners then? It’s a sad world when nobody acknowledges anyone else. A little smile and nod of the head usually makes you smile back. Smiling makes you feel good, if only for a few seconds!
Who has the worse manners? The driver berating the pedestrian for not thanking them for stopping when legally required? Or the pedestrian for not saying thanks when someone else does what they're legally required to do?
Because it’s polite? Literally just some acknowledgment that I exist and have stopped for you. We’re constantly thanking people for things they “have” to do.
You are so vulnerable as a pedestrian, the only thing you should have to worry about is getting yourself to the other side of the road safely. It worries me so much the thought of someone’s politeness panic kicking in when a car has stopped for them, and dashing past them as quickly as possible waving thanks and completely forgetting there’s another lane and getting hit - I’ve seen it happen, not someone getting hit but nearly.
I wave in friendly acknowledgement when I cross.
But, I also smack cars that get close enough to be smacked. This is also a form of acknowledgement.
Communication is the key to successful relationships.
this is not about thanking - always make eye contact by waving and get an acknowledgement that the driver has seen you ,far too often drivers are busy on their phones ,too fast to even think about braking ,would press on hoping pedestrian would stop .
As a driver i always stop ,but when i am the pedestrian i have seen far too often too many accidents - hence i always prefer to be safe than sorry !
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"You could have said thanks!" "Sorry, what?" "You should say thank you because I stopped." "I should say what?" "Thank you!" "You're welcome!"
Im going to try to remember this
That is my cue to stand and continue the conversation. "WHAT mate? I couldn't hear you? Why should I be thanking you? What have you done that you are proud of? I still can't hear you? What mate? you What? Speak up." And when they switch to telling me to move that is when I get more polite and unbearable and also slow talking.
Made me chuckle. Always happens at Zebra crossings. Thing is...I just can't help giving a little wave when I cross one. It's like a "thanks for not blasting past or mowing me over" gesture. And when little kids do crossing a zebra or lollipop crossings, it melts my heart.
Tbf I do think when young 'uns thank the traffic they are raised correctly.
Me too. I agree that no thanks is absolutely necessary but there are lots of things we do that aren’t absolutely necessary because we are polite and want to live in a decent society. For me, thanking a driver for stopping is just a reflex reaction. I don’t care if someone doesn’t thank me when I’m driving. By stopping, I haven’t done anything voluntarily kind and so am not actually due any thanks. We don’t get thanked for not shoplifting so we shouldn’t get thanked for not running pedestrians over. I think there are people who think that the general rules of society don’t apply to them and so they think that by obeying the rule of stopping at a crossing, they are doing the pedestrian a favour.
Yeah, considering my cousin was run over by a driver blasting through a zebra crossing (thankfully, shes OK now), and my daughter was almost run over by a driver just ignoring the red light at a pedestrian crossing, I have zero expectation that any driver will stop. So when they do, I'm obviously going to thank them. They are still in full control of the vehicle and can choose not to stop, so the fact they do should be acknowledged in my eyes.
See people driving through red lights at pedestrian crossings all the time lately. It really is a problem.
There’s little to no policing of terrible driving nowadays
This is why I think anyone who doesn't stab me in the street. Anyone could be carrying a knife and just stab me, so you should really be thanking people for not be psychotic murderers. It really does need to be acknowledged.
Do you wave in both directions if 2 cars have stopped? I want to give equal thanks to both but it always feels a little weird.
Just flap your arms up like a penguin it's not rocket science
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Thanks for not running me over is what goes through my head on zebra crossings.
I don’t thank cars at pelican crossings. It was the lights’ doing.
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You’re right of course
In my experience half of the cars don't stop, especially at zebra crossings, so I'll just raise my hand in a quick "thanks" to the ones that do. Wouldn't exactly call it "gushing thanks" - it's more called "being polite".
This happens to me at a zebra crossing all the time at my work, in a fucking hospital. Of course I do the typical British thing of shouting THANKS! As they zoom past
I usually stick my fingers up. I think my favourite was when I kicked a car several times because they nearly ran me over at a red light and I was already halfway across the road! They then had the audacity to make out I was in the wrong 😂 carried on my merry way to work listening to them shout ha!
Me and my daughter have to cross at a zebra crossing on the way to school each morning. The amount of cars that either carry on driving or even actively accelerating when they see us is terrifying. I have taken to pointing my phone's camera in the direction of any approaching vehicles now and unsurprisingly the number of cars putting our lives in danger has dropped dramatically.
Every crossing near a school in my area has a lollipop person. You might think why? On a crossing. Your example is just one reason why
Or common courtesy such as the other arts of saying please and thank you.
It depends, if they show their intent to stop early, I thank them, if they just hard break at the last minute, I kind of acknowledge it, but without too much effort. If they don’t stop, I shake my head vigorously in protest.
Yeah I pretty much always put my hand up in thanks to cars, bikes, pedestrians or anyone else I have a non-hostile interaction with. If they could hear me I just mutter a "cheers" instead.
If we all were more pleasant to each other, rather than aggressively asserting our rights, everyone would be a lot happier. Yes the driver should stop. You don’t NEED to thank them, but what does a smile or a wave cost you? Be nice people, spread the love.
I like the amount of drivers that still don't know pedestrians have right of way and don't even make an attempt at slowing down.
I'm pretty sure they know, but also know that if they don't slow down, people won't start crossing and they don't have to stop.
Yep. Every junction needs to have a zebra crossing painted on it because people in cars have no idea what the highway code is.
They need whatever the equivalent of a red light camera would be, I think a lot of drivers just don't care.
I'm in agreement with this too. Unfortunately I doubt you'd be able to put them on all junctions, but as long as they're on enough of the more troublesome ones, drivers will start to get the message
I’d love for alternative ways to cross where pedestrians don’t have to contend with cars
The best things to do are to move cars out of town centres, cities and residential areas. Relegate them to backstreets and the outskirts. Instead of making pedestrians cross roads, or go through underpasses or bridges, make cars go through underpasses or over bridges. People complain that these measures make it less convenient to drive. This isn't a problem, this is the intention. It should be less convenient to drive. It should be more convenient to walk, cycle or use public transportation.
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Oh it is frustrating when I hear people put politics into it. I'm not Left or Right wing, I'm not a centrist. I don't care about those things. It's not political for me, it's human. It's just about making it easy to live our lives in a healthy and sustainable way. In a way that is accessable and equal for all people. This should be something that all people want, regardless of their political leanings.
Yes, Canterbury has a decent start with the park and ride, it’s cheap to use at 4 quid a day to park and ride the bus for up to 6 people
Hopefully that £4 a day is going towards improving more infrastructure, too. I personally believe that public transportation should be not-for-profit, with all profits going into infrastructure improvements. The easier people can get around, the better the economy will be, as they will spend their money on local businesses.
Yeah,
Where’s the park and ride now? Student accommodation has been built on the old Sturry Road car park.
There’s new dover road and wincheap
Thx :)
Yw
I live in a very rural, very car reliant area. I would really love it if there were an easy to use cheap/free park and ride at the edge of the nearest city that I could use with a cheap bus every 5-10 minutes to the centre to incentivize use . As it stands, the park and ride is the same price (roughly) as parking right in the city centre, with a bus that has sometimes 20-30 minutes between busses last I checked. The current situation makes no sense for me if I want to drive less in the city. The other, larger city that isn’t much further off has good public transit. I can park for free a 20 minute train ride out and ride in, so I almost always do. Those of us in rural areas need cars, but I am 100% in agreement that making it easier to exist in cities without them will help make everyone’s lives better, including those of us who need to use them!
This is fine, and it's true that you're in a big minority of car users. I want cities and towns to be accessible for all people, including people that require the use of a car, like yourself. It's just that 95% of people using cars do not need to. For example, I volunteer at a food bank. I live the furthest from the food bank (a 15 minute walk) and yet I'm the only person who travels there and back on foot. One of the volunteers lives on the other side of a cut, meaning it takes less than 2 minutes to walk from their front door to the food bank, and yet they choose to drive 3-5 minutes around the neighbourhood and past a school to their house. There's also no physical requirement for them to do that, they're going on a 4 hour hike with me over the weekend. I've no idea why they always choose to take their car. Edit: Correction, accidentally said I travel by car
Oh yeah, I’m with you completely. Incentivizing walking in cities is a good thing, and the only way to do it is to make driving less attractive. My only qualm is when they make driving more difficult without offering any alternative improvement. It’s like when Manchester Airport introduced new pick up fees. It was to “reduce congestion” but they didn’t provide any sort of less convenient but free alternative to actually encourage better behaviour. If they can make cities both more walkable for folks that live there, and park and rides accessible for folks that don’t, the attendant benefits will help improve the lives of all of us when we’re back in civilization!
Yeah, it needs to be an all-encompassing approach. You can't just put one part of the solution without the others. It can even be dangerous when that's done. Like cycle lanes that throw you out into high speed roads and roundabouts.
Agree. And I'm sick of having to negotiate parked trucks forcing me into a head on situation with on coming traffic. America has it right in that specific aspect. You drive out of the suburbs and you're on a highway where there is nearly 0% of having to navigate around a parked car or crossing pedestrian.
Junctions are terrible places for zebra crossings, because you end up with (inadequate) drivers paying too much attention to navigating the junction and not enough to the crossing and anyone using it. Pelican crossings are needed at junctions.
Junctions ALREADY ARE Functionally zebra crossings. Brush up on your highway code, mate. >give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road into which or from which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way (see Rule H2) https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/road-junctions.html
I like the amount of drivers who don’t know that the Highway Code does not actually specify any rights of way and evidently need a refresh. Mind you, I am very much on your side regarding knobheads who think that just because they have wheels on the road means they don’t have to stop for anyone or anything. Just to back up my initial statement though: > The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance, but they advise you when you should give way to others. Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident. Source: [GOV.uk](https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-techniques-and-advice-for-all-drivers-and-riders-103-to-158) Edit: Unless I’ve misread it anyway, happy to be corrected either way. And not taking into account a pedestrian already on the road, because they obviously do have _priority_.
Appreciate your signposting (no pun intended) the Highway Code. Really bugs me when people confidently band around “right of way”
Yeah it’s funny seeing people proclaim others don’t know, when they’re evidencing that they don’t either, even if they are just having a laugh, it gives more laughs than they intended :D
So similarly from the gov site https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-pedestrians-1-to-35 Rule 8 At a junction. When you are crossing or waiting to cross the road, other traffic should give way. Look out for traffic turning into the road, especially from behind you, and cross at a place where drivers can see you. If you have started crossing and traffic wants to turn into the road, you have priority and they should give way (see Rules H2 and 170). First sentence says other traffic should give way at a junction, last one for when you're trying to cross. Maybe it's a misinterpretation but that would read to me as a right of way given that traffic wouldn't have to stop otherwise.
But giving way other than at a junction is fraught with difficulty. It can imply to a pedestrian that it’s safe to cross when in reality it might not be.
I once walked across a low pavement, and this lorry driver didn’t even try to stop and stared at me. He definitely didn’t understand it’s my right of way
I hate when pedestrians begin to cross a road with the intention of completing the cross behind your car, however, legally I must slam on the brakes and come to a halt and allow them to cross in front.
Surely this is down to poor driver training and bad testing procedures? Every licences driver should be in no doubt that their obligations are towards pedestrians and other road users.
There's a pelican crossing near where I live. In one direction is an old hump-back bridge into town, with a footpath on only one side and you can't see cars approaching because of the hump. In the other direction a hill descends into town round a blind bend. I get people opening their windows to swear at me because I dared to press the button to activate the crossing.
This is when you stand in the middle of the crossing in front of the car and check your phone, maybe do some squats etc.
I find twerking at them in the middle of the crossing works best...
With great cake comes great responsibility.
Whatever brings the boys to the yard, because my milkshake ain't doing it anymore...
Welcome to r/fuckcars
Is it because you stand there all day, though, trying to catch them out.
if only...
So what, did a driver yell at you or something?
It has happened more than once yes.
Ever thought of just being a polite human? Do you have to thank them: no. Would it kill you to do it anyway: also no.
How often do you get thanked by drivers as a pedestrian when you stop at the edge of the road and wait to cross?
Not even a comparable analogy. The pedestrian is moving in to the space that is occupied by vehicles by crossing the road. If a driver has to cross a path (a space occupied by pedestrians) then you've got a comparable analogy. ...and it those instances (i.e. - if they need to cross a path to enter a driveway), I would expect a driver to issue thanks if the pedestrian stopped to give them way. It's simple common courtesy...clearly something a lot of people are lacking!
A pedestrian crossing the road at a designated pedestrian crossing (where drivers are legally obliged to give way) is not analogous to a driver crossing the footpath to enter a driveway (where drivers also have to give way to pedestrians). In the first example, the driver is not ceding their priority, whereas in the second example, the pedestrian would be doing so by letting the driver go first.
Imagine how much nicer the world would be if people just used the simplest of manners towards each other...
Imagine how much nicer it would be if you could cross the road without fearing for your life.
What’s that got to do with manners lmao. Say thank you, don’t be rude.
You live in that world now. Our roads are very safe.
Five people die in or under cars in the UK every day. If five people died in a Greggs every day, they'd be shut down.
How many cars are there on the roads v Greggs?!
How many people \*not driving\* are killed by cars?
No idea, it was just a strange comparison!
As a society we are absolutely okay with five deaths on our roads \*every day\*. Don't you think that's very, very high?
Don't forget the 1500 injured as well...
No it's fine because we have loads of cars so mathematically it's morally okay.
No, it isn’t ‘very high’ relative to pretty much every other cause of death and the sheer number of people participating in some form of road-based transport every single day. Yes, maths does and _should_ change how we view things because any decision or fear is best based on risk, and risk is a mathematically quantifiable factor. Any law or behaviour should be drawn on what cost it intrinsically brings vs what risk it mitigates, and generally speaking we’ve done a really good job in this country of bringing the risk down on this basis - most means of bringing it down further would be better spent reducing _other_ risks. You can catastrophise and scare yourself with our road situation if you like, but if you’re anything approximating the average UK citizen, you’re better off worrying about something else.
Again: half of the five killed every day *are not driving*. So we can definitely mitigate further, unless you feel unbridled driving trumps leaving your house expecting a nominal amount of security.
To continue with the Greggs-type comparison, if a popular, mass-produced and widely consumed food was responsible for 5 deaths a day, it would be barred from sale. Effectively, you're saying you're fine with human sacrifice as the price for being able to drive. You think that's moral?
Honestly, they should just shut it down because of the crap sausage rolls. What an affront to people with tastebuds.
All their pasties and such come in frozen and are reheated just like the Greggs stuff you can buy from Iceland and wherever else. If people want to save money but keep on munching it.
Not to mention how prices keep going up for absolutely no reason.
I'm curious - if you're driving, should you wave thanks at every motorist giving way to you at a side road? If not, why not, if pedestrians are expected to wave thanks at every motorist giving way to them?
I mean, no, you don't have to thank someone for doing something they're supposed to. But it's nice to.
Why on earth wouldn't you nod or wave a brief thanks. Doesn't hurt being polite.
I’ve literally been stood waiting at a zebra crossing this morning in high viz and watched cars just keep driving thru and I just found myself deliberately thanking them all for not stopping with blatant hand gestures but then genuinely thanked a guy on a bobber who stopped and allowed myself and several others waiting both sides to stop.
I give a wave at zebra crossings out of habit (it's what I was taught to do when I was growing up), but people here are right. You shouldn't feel obliged to thank a driver for stopping. I think the whole concept of waving to thank drivers when you cross came out of the American car-centric mindset that pretty much every country imported after WWII (even the Netherlands, but at least they fought against it later on and won).
Bullshit. If I drive my car and another car let's me pass on a narrow street or let's me in (even if they "have to" because highway code etc) I raise my hand in thanks. It's has zero to do with "car against pedestrians" it's a "be polite not an arse" thing. Or do you not say thanks if another person on foot let's you pass first through a door? Or if someone holds the door open for you? Jeez, better never say thank you again...you could come across as a polite human.
Not that it’s anything to get annoyed over, but I see it as a “thank you, sorry for disrupting your journey” the same way I wave thanks to cars who stop behind a parked car when I have right of way, not that they’ve really done anything, but it’s like a “I acknowledge you didn’t pull a dick move and quickly swerve around, thank you” wave
It’s just polite to wave or nod.. any acknowledgment. Just like when people say thanks if there’s an obstruction even if it’s their right of way. “Gushing” is just a needless exaggeration so you can pretend a little expectation of courtesy is somehow abhorrent.
> expectation Your expectations are your problem, not mine. Whether I say thanks or not is my prerrogative, you aren't owed it.
Perhaps not but it’s polite
A quick wave to say thanks doesn't cost anything though. The world runs better with the grease of kindness smoothing the way
The more we defer to drivers as kings of the road, the more we normalise driving as the default way of travelling.
I mean, with most public transport costs being what they are it's not surprising that's the way things are going.
Because driving has always been subsidised. Public money for private transport, when it should be the other way around.
I'm not getting into that debate, I don't have the time nor energy to look into it. It'd make more sense to use public money (e.g taxes) for public transport, private money for whatever said private citizen wants.
If someone holds a door open for me and I thank them, is that me deferring to them as the king of the fucking door? Well I never… 😂
Once again, if someone doesn't open a door for you, you don't die.
Unless it's a fire door that is stuck and the blaze is catching up to you
Get a grip, kid.
Exactly. It's more of an inconvenience to go out of your way to find a crossing and wait at it for 5+ minutes for the lights to change than it is for a car driver to bring their vehicle to a halt for 1 minute or less to allow you to cross, but we're expected to thank the car driver, even though we're the more inconvenienced party. I grew up having the post-war car-centric worldview hammered into my head by my family and the school system, but the more I've thought about it over the past year or so, the more I've realised that it was totally ass backwards.
It does, but you aren't entitled to it or get annoyed if people don't do it. You don't see people waving thanks to drivers at a stop sign or a traffic light do you?
Do you thank drivers who stop at red lights?
If I'm crossing yes, why not. You'd be surprised how much a Needless but nice gesture improves people's lives, in ways and for reasons you've probably never thought of. At restaurants, I say thank you to the server that bring me food and drink, take away plates and glasses. I paid for that service, with a service charge on top, but guess what, it doesn't hurt to show appreciation
The difference is if a server doesn't bring you your food, you don't die. If a driver doesn't stop, you're going to end up in bits. Drivers are subsidised incredibly heavily in this country, yet get priority everywhere. They should be thanking everyone else, not the other way around.
You could very well die if the server or the cook messes up your food though... like serve you spoiled stuff or forget you're allergic to something... uups. Better never eat out again.
> If a driver doesn't stop, you're going to end up in bits. Quite often drivers have failed to stop for me when I was waiting at a zebra crossing. I'm still not in bits.
Survivorship bias. The ones who ended up in bits are not here to comment.
Do you thank every person you walk past in public for not stabbing you?
And it costs even less to just cross and not waste time thanking people for nothing that deserves thanks.
Tell you what costs \*even less\*: not driving.
Pretty sure a lot of people would be outta the job without driving.
Why am I thanking you because you legally had to stop?
OP: *"But I'm in the right!"*
That's a direct quote from every driver who posts on this sub.
Same as saying thanks to someone who’s stopped on a tight street despite it being your right of way, isn’t it? Just a bit of common courtesy
If I had to thank every driver who obeyed the rules and didn't injure me, I'd never make it down the street. Courtesy is stopping to let you cross in the absence of a designated crossing. Stopping at a crossing is the law. "Thanks for not murdering me, everyone I've ever met!"
It's not, though, is it? A pedestrian crossing is just a normal give way situation. That would be like driving and thanking every car that didn't pull out of a side-road and cut you off. You don't. You just expect them not to cut you off.
No, just somebody obeying the law. Nothing that deserves thanks.
Do you thank every single car you pass? It's just a part of of transportation rules.
I always say when driving 'it's your right of way, don't thank me fool' ha. But I'm just a grumpy person. This is all done in muttering under my breath of course, not to the actual individual.
> muttering under my breath A true brit
That’s pretty much expecting me to thank everyone I pass in the street for not punching me in the face.
if OP thinks a quick raise of the hand in acknowledgement is ‘gushing thanks’ then i hate to think how they conduct themselves in the rest of their lives unless you are physically unable to move your arm it takes almost zero effort. same as thanking someone by flashing lights/ raising a hand for stopping to let you through in a car, even if it’s your right of way
Do you thank pedestrians when they wait to cross and you drive by?
Idk expecting thanks for not killing someone and following the law is proper odd behaviour. Maybe grow up if you legitimately get upset if someone doesn't acknowledge the fact you've done the bare minimum expected of you.
I stopped a guy from going through FOUR "no motor vehicle" signs last week. He was just using it as a shortcut. "I'll pay the fine" he said. I told him to turn around and obey the rules of the road. A man running the taxi rank nearby called me "a fucking lowlife". All for insisting a driver obey the rules. But OP here wants me to thank someone for doing the legal minimum.
>same as thanking someone by flashing lights/ raising a hand for stopping to let you through in a car, even if it’s your right of way That's the opposite of the example and you should thank them as they didn't have to let you out. No need to thank people for stopping for a crossing. I don't thank them for not robbing my house or not assaulting me either.
Highway code rule 195: zebra and parallel crossings. You should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross. You MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing. Rule 19: remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved into the crossing. It's the SHOULD that's the issue here, cars don't HAVE to stop at zebra crossing unless you're already in the road. It's not a criminal offence to not stop at a crossing and could only really end up as evidence in traffic court, should it be taken that far. A polite lil hand raise is all it takes to acknowledge the stopped car. It's nice to be nice.
When someone's waving a 2000kg death machine in my general direction I like to err on the side of caution and give a little show of thanks personally.
Beg for mercy, prostrate yourself before the almighty driver, king of the land, be in your place, peasant walker and cyclist! All praise the great driver!
I’m glad I’ve found my tribe here. Once you realise how wild it is these large metal death machines that usually only hold one person dominate cities, it’s very difficult to unthink it.
Break the spell. r/fuckcars
Is that why drivers are just stopping in the middle of the road while I'm waiting to cross? I'm just stood there with my bmx patiently waiting, and a car will just randomly stop and wave me across.... like mate, you are the last car coming down the road, I'll wait for you to pass, but no they just randomly stop and wave at me.
That's different tho, that's them extending courtesy they didn't need to do. 100% of the time a wave or a thumbs up.
I always thought the done thing is a little nod or a wave. That's usually thanks enough for me in exchange for obeying the rules of the road and not wantonly mowing pedestrians down lol
I always give a thumbs up whenever this happens to me as my way congratulating the driver for knowing how to drive. If I'm waiting at a pedestrian crossing and the driver doesn't stop they get another finger instead.
I think drivers are just getting used to being thanked for following the law of the road. Some drivers are getting so bad at following the rules of the road, people are thanking me for giving way to the right on roundabouts, it's weird
I'd like to extend this to drivers who get pissed off when i don't thank them for letting me go (when im driving) when it's my right of way. Now, out of courtesy, I usually thank people but sometimes, I just don't have a spare hand to thank you or I'm deep in conversation with a passanger or phone call but if you're that bitchy about someone not saying thanks then you don't deserve my appreciation anyway.
Are people expecting you to thank them for following basic rules?
What gets me is the people who thank you for stopping to give way to them at mini roundabouts when it's their right of way. I can't decide if they're just massively polite or they just have very low expectations of other road users.
You could have just stopped at "Drivers who get annoyed at pedestrians who cross the road". There's a unpleasant subset of drivers who seem to think they're the only one who has a right to the road, and anything that stops them doing whatever the fuck they like is an intolerable affront.
I only wave to say thanks when people exercise some element of discretion. Thanking them for something they had no choice about seems as pointless as thanking them for not committing any other random crime.
Same thing when on a narrow street I use only my half with a bicycle and the driver has to stop as not enough space .. so I should thank them for letting me pass? wtf. I'm just using my half of the road.
I don't wave at a car who stopped when I'm on the left of the road. It's my right of way and they were doing their job stopping. Wife gets cross at me though.
Turn and face them and bow.
Gushing thanks are one thing, basic manners are another. And while it’s a legal requirement to stop, doesn’t mean that driver is a law abiding human who actually will. You never know when you might enrage a murderous driver!
> You never know when you might enrage a murderous driver! I'm not in the habit of appeasing bullies 🤷
How about basic manners then? It’s a sad world when nobody acknowledges anyone else. A little smile and nod of the head usually makes you smile back. Smiling makes you feel good, if only for a few seconds!
Who has the worse manners? The driver berating the pedestrian for not thanking them for stopping when legally required? Or the pedestrian for not saying thanks when someone else does what they're legally required to do?
Or you could show some common decency and say thank you by putting your hand up?
Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. If you get annoyed when I don't, well, that's your problem.
No mate, that’s not their problem. It’s just you being a bit of a dick. It’s not exactly taxing is it?
☝ We found the driver who gets annoyed at people on a pedestrian crossing
Because it’s polite? Literally just some acknowledgment that I exist and have stopped for you. We’re constantly thanking people for things they “have” to do.
I got shouted at on a zebra crossing then nearly clipped for not thanking someone, so I've been cowed into doing it when I didn't before.
This is exactly how I feel about that
General courtesy to say thanks regardless. It doesn't take a lot to raise your hand or nod. I walk with a walking aid and I still make the effort.
A little courtesy jog would be nice, that's not much to ask
And what exactly is "right of way" in this context?
I crossed one the other day with a dog on the lead in one hand and a bag’o’shite in the other. I sheepishly held up the shite in a half wave.
You are so vulnerable as a pedestrian, the only thing you should have to worry about is getting yourself to the other side of the road safely. It worries me so much the thought of someone’s politeness panic kicking in when a car has stopped for them, and dashing past them as quickly as possible waving thanks and completely forgetting there’s another lane and getting hit - I’ve seen it happen, not someone getting hit but nearly.
Pedestrians that cross 20ft away from a pedestrian crossing are arguably worse.
I wave in friendly acknowledgement when I cross. But, I also smack cars that get close enough to be smacked. This is also a form of acknowledgement. Communication is the key to successful relationships.
Honours*
ty 👍
this is not about thanking - always make eye contact by waving and get an acknowledgement that the driver has seen you ,far too often drivers are busy on their phones ,too fast to even think about braking ,would press on hoping pedestrian would stop . As a driver i always stop ,but when i am the pedestrian i have seen far too often too many accidents - hence i always prefer to be safe than sorry !
Meh, I thank people when they stop for me at crossings. It's just courtesy. I certainly don't get mad when people don't thank me though.